MSNative Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Did y'all see this? Wonder what committee thought this was a good idea http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/01/30/268964470/utah-school-draws-ire-for-taking-kids-lunches-debt-cited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Here's your lunch! Not! FEEL SHAME! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 This happened to my youngest once here. The first and only time she tried to buy lunch at school. I thought the lunch account was shared by my two dds, but I was wrong. She had a tray of food and when it was time to pay they told her she had no money and took it away. At least in Utah, they offered them something. My dd wasn't given anything. I felt horrible. The school apologized to me and dd has never tried to buy at school again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Our local schools will put a negative on their account and still let them have their lunch. They will send a notice home to notify the parents of the shortage so more money can be loaded on the account. I think it can go negative by a specific dollar amount ($5? $10?) before anything further happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I read about this when it happened when a friend from Utah posted about it on Facebook. I'm glad it's getting national attention because the idea is appalling. What is up with people who want to punish children who don't have money to pay for their lunches, either by throwing away their food or making them work? It's not the child's fault! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Where we've lived, kids are usually given a cheese sandwich or PB&J if they have no funds (or negative funds). They do not go hungry. I seem to remember reading that some school districts were moving to a give everybody free lunch approach, to avoid this. I actually think that's a better idea. Perhaps with more kids in the system, quality will improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I do not like that children go hungry, however I can see more than one side to this. There ARE parents who do not want to pay and will put off paying a balance as long as possible. This was an issue when I was in school and I cannot remember the number of school wide flyers went home about it. (e-mail was not common place yet but we had electronic accounts). I do not think it is fair for the school or the food company (if they are separate entity) to continue to provide goods at their own cost. There ARE children who view ordering school lunches as a free for all. They do not keep track of how much they have spent and even if the parents deposit enough to cover lunch for the week and one extra the child goes nuts early in the week and orders the most expensive al a cart items and snacks and ends up in the hole by Friday. I can see my DS doing this and I can also see myself going to the school and requesting they deny him a meal the remainder of the week because my budget cannot afford for him to indulge himself day after day, week after week. I would rather him being given the fruit and milk and learn that money has no end. Harsh lesson but I am willing to bet that after one time of over spending all his weekly/monthly food budget in a few days and having to live with the consequences for a few days. Is there a good solution? Probably not. If the first scenario I mentioned is the issue then it could be neglect on the part of the parents and needs to be dealt with with the parents. Maybe sending them to a collections agency when the negative balance reaches a certain level? I could see child services being involved in this type of situation if it is labeled neglect. But then, if the parent is paying every week/month and the child is going buys on the crap instead of meals and the balance does not last as long as was planned by the parent than the natural consequences of the child having only the fruit and milk for a few days could result in a report of neglect to child services rather than an issue of parenting and learning a life lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 It is an issue here too. Many want others to feed their child...they simply refuse to send a lunch or pay for a lunch Wait...your area has many parents who don't qualify for free or reduced lunch who won't give their kids food or money for lunch? Is it that they can't pay or won't pay? I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around it. I would think most parents would go hungry themselves before letting their kids starve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Did y'all see this? Wonder what committee thought this was a good idea http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/01/30/268964470/utah-school-draws-ire-for-taking-kids-lunches-debt-cited What do you expect them to do if a kid shows up with a tray lunch and no money to pay for it? Even when we were kids, you had to pay for your lunch in order to get to eat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Sounds like they had a communication mix up. It is an issue here too. Many want others to feed their child...they simply refuse to send a lunch or pay for a lunch, leaving the district stuck and hoping enough high schoolers will buy soda and snacks to cover the deficit. Usually that's not enough, so the local bread company donates day old bread and the children are given sandwiches made from that once they're over a month in debt. I find this questionable. Is there data on this? I don't know any parents like this, not to say there aren't any.....but many? Eh I doubt it. As for the news story, my objection is taking the food back and throwing it away. They should have let it go that day, fixed the system, and not made the mistake again. It was unecessary to shame the kids publically like that. Our local public school gives out a sandwich to kids who don't have the necessary funds in their account. When the boys were still in school there were a lot of notices that never made it to me. Kids just don't always give them to the parents. I was glad when I could check the balance online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 What do you expect them to do if a kid shows up with a tray lunch and no money to pay for it? Even when we were kids, you had to pay for your lunch in order to get to eat it. I would expect them to change the system so they know if a kid has money BEFORE they get a lunch tray. If they don't let the kid get lunch, but offer a snack or sandwich instead, I have no problem with that. But to let the kids get a lunch and literally take it out of their hands in order to throw it away? Yes, I have a problem with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Here's an example of a major school district which is providing free lunches to all students. http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/09/02/boston-public-schools-will-offer-free-lunches-all-students/2aaUy5sxJjIak9ndGDHxkJ/story.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Where we've lived, kids are usually given a cheese sandwich or PB&J if they have no funds (or negative funds). They do not go hungry. I seem to remember reading that some school districts were moving to a give everybody free lunch approach, to avoid this. I actually think that's a better idea. Perhaps with more kids in the system, quality will improve. Do almost all the students in those districts already qualify to have lunches paid for by the state? I don't know of any school districts that have unlimited financial resources or the funds to feed the entire student body at no cost to the students. TINSTAAFL. ETA: This explains it. "The cost of the free meals will be covered by the federal government." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSOchristie Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I think it was just a mistake, a very stupid one, but a mistake. If you've ever worked in a school, nothing ever gets done on time. The lunchroom probably told the principal that they were seriously operating in the red, he told them to generate a list and under no circumstances give those kids who hadn't paid a lunch. Cafeteria manager has one thousand things to attend to and the first lunch shift gets there before she can complete the list. Panic sets in because they've been told to withhold the lunches, and they make a dumb decision. Our school had 90% participation in free lunch, but for those who repeatedly forgot or who's parents refused to fill out the paperwork for free lunch, were given a "cold lunch". Some kind of sandwich, milk, and an apple or banana. It wasn't fancy, but at least they weren't hungry. Someone on my fb feed suggested that they tie it to the parent's license or taxes, that way the kid doesn't get punished for the parent's foolishness. I was always amazed when my kids (90% on free lunch) brought G2 and prepackaged potato chips for snack every morning. I think I could have fed myself lunch for the cost of those items :/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I would expect them to change the system so they know if a kid has money BEFORE they get a lunch tray. If they don't let the kid get lunch, but offer a snack or sandwich instead, I have no problem with that. But to let the kids get a lunch and literally take it out of their hands in order to throw it away? Yes, I have a problem with that. ...I'm not entirely sure how that would work. Go to the cash register before you choose food. But what if they choose ala carte after the cash register that is more than they have in the account? Would they need to have cash registers before and after? What happens at IKEA if you get a plate of food, get to the cash register, and don't have money to pay for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Ok, none of the districts I ever attended had ala carte items. You paid when you went in the door. That is how it was when my son was in school too. You paid on your way in and if the account was too far in the red, you were given a sandwich instead. Before you got your tray of food, which was one flat rate, not after and certainly not at the cost of throwing food away. Which is stupid. I don't know parents who won't pay but I do know parents who will be more motivated to get around to it if their child says they got the alternate lunch that day. Some people don't pay attention to their paper folders. Here if you financially qualify for reduced lunch, the district covers that cost and it is free so any parent not paying for lunch in a timely fashion is making north of $43k for a family of 4. I think it is mostly an busy parent oversight and not an "I want my kid to eat for free" thing though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Wait...your area has many parents who don't qualify for free or reduced lunch who won't give their kids food or money for lunch? Is it that they can't pay or won't pay? I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around it. I would think most parents would go hungry themselves before letting their kids starve. I am not Heigh Ho, but I have been following the Utah news and I also live in an area where people make high salaries and still are very poor due to astronomical costs of living. They cannot move out because their jobs are specialized and tied to the local industry. So, I will tell you what my child's PS principal said on "back to school night" last year - lots of people around my area make a high salary (higher than the cutoff required - $44K ??), so cannot qualify for the free lunch program, but are still very poor and hence cannot afford to pay for the school lunch sometimes. He said that the child who has a negative account balance would be given an apple and a note to the parent at lunch time. If this continues for a few days, the school would call in the parent to have a discussion. In my area, the PTA provides the principal with around $10,000 of discretionary funding and if a case arises where a child is going hungry because the parent is unable to pay for lunch, the principal will meet with the parent and after finding out the real causes, allocate money from this fund on a short term basis to cover the lunch costs for this particular child. This is a humanitarian gesture which the whole community supports. I am guessing that it takes a few days for this process and the child eats an apple at lunch time on those days, I think. The sad part is that this is a nation wide policy. This made the headlines because the Utah district apparently changed some billing system (or the supplier?) and the parents were not informed and too many kids had this terrible thing happening on the same day to create a big enough uproar. It normally happens to one or two kids in a month, I think. Yesterday, 2 senators showed up at that Utah school and talked about passing a law where no child would go hungry - let us hope they make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 What do you expect them to do if a kid shows up with a tray lunch and no money to pay for it? Even when we were kids, you had to pay for your lunch in order to get to eat it. I wouldn't humiliate a hungry child because of a mistake made by the parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 What do you expect them to do if a kid shows up with a tray lunch and no money to pay for it? Even when we were kids, you had to pay for your lunch in order to get to eat it. In our district, you get a note home daily if your balance goes negative. I never let it go more than a day so I don't know what happened if it went longer. They also allowed you to place restrictions on the account. For example, I was able to restrict my son's account so he only got to buy food on a certain day. I know he tried other times but they just told him no. I don't know how they do it but it worked without wasting food or humiliating and confusing the kid. Surely the Utah school could follow a similar system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 The problem isn't not giving a free lunch away. The problem is letting a hungry kid hold the food, then take it away. Who would even do that to a kid? And publicly stating that it was because their parents' account was in the red. Again, who would DO that?? We're talking elementary school students here. I agree it was probably not the intended effect, it was just people being really stupid in making and applying policy. I think they deserve the derision they're getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I am coming at this as a parent with a child with a school lunch account. It is my responsibility, as his parent, to keep money in the account. I'd be irate if the school let him buy food when the account was negative then came after me to pay for it. We budget a certain amount for food and can't afford to just keep paying and paying because the school is afraid of the backlash from the public if they turn him away when his account doesn't have money in it. I guess the only way to avoid the problem is provide free lunch for all kids in the school. Then no chance that they won't have the money at the end of the line (though I don't know what will happen to ala carte at that point). I know some schools in our district do that, when the percentage of free lunches in the school is high enough (80%? I think) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I'm in a diverse district in a state where the wealthy do not attend public school. There many parents here just one step up from reduced lunch who know that the district will give their child free lunch. They plan this in as part of their household budget. Same thing for textbooks, exam fees, and field trip fees. When the percentage gets too high, then the public is asked to donate and the parents are asked to pay on their accounts. It's standard for Kindy, for ex, for the parents to be asked to donate a snack ...you know, when I was first asked, I figured it was for the occasional kid whose parent forget. Nope, it was for those whose parents refused, and I was chastised for not sending in a thirty day supply each semester since I was 'wealthy'. In the middle and high schools, the issue is usually that the child has spent the money on other things. No one checks unless they are asking for a free lunch and the account is empty. Common for free lunch students to sell their lunch. How are you so intimately familiar with the way that "many parents" in your district plan their household budget? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 ...I'm not entirely sure how that would work. Go to the cash register before you choose food. But what if they choose ala carte after the cash register that is more than they have in the account? Would they need to have cash registers before and after? My school district's lunch and breakfast is flat rate like Ikea kids meals style. The child will key in his/her lunch account number on the pinpad at the cafeteria window (in front of cafeteria kitchen), tell the person which set they want and the person will give the child the lunch tray with the requested set. Parents usually pay a month's worth of lunch into their kids accounts. If kids buy breakfast as well, then the lunch money will run out before the end of the month. Parents get an alert when the amount is low on their kids accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachyDoodle Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I do not like that children go hungry, however I can see more than one side to this. There ARE parents who do not want to pay and will put off paying a balance as long as possible. This was an issue when I was in school and I cannot remember the number of school wide flyers went home about it. (e-mail was not common place yet but we had electronic accounts). I do not think it is fair for the school or the food company (if they are separate entity) to continue to provide goods at their own cost. There ARE children who view ordering school lunches as a free for all. They do not keep track of how much they have spent and even if the parents deposit enough to cover lunch for the week and one extra the child goes nuts early in the week and orders the most expensive al a cart items and snacks and ends up in the hole by Friday. I can see my DS doing this and I can also see myself going to the school and requesting they deny him a meal the remainder of the week because my budget cannot afford for him to indulge himself day after day, week after week. I would rather him being given the fruit and milk and learn that money has no end. Harsh lesson but I am willing to bet that after one time of over spending all his weekly/monthly food budget in a few days and having to live with the consequences for a few days. Is there a good solution? Probably not. If the first scenario I mentioned is the issue then it could be neglect on the part of the parents and needs to be dealt with with the parents. Maybe sending them to a collections agency when the negative balance reaches a certain level? I could see child services being involved in this type of situation if it is labeled neglect. But then, if the parent is paying every week/month and the child is going buys on the crap instead of meals and the balance does not last as long as was planned by the parent than the natural consequences of the child having only the fruit and milk for a few days could result in a report of neglect to child services rather than an issue of parenting and learning a life lesson. We never had this problem when dd was in ps, but the potential for it always worried me. When I was in elementary school, they offered a plate lunch, and that was it. We did have the choice of a couple of entrees, maybe a choice of sides, and a chef's salad was always an option. But there was no a la carte selection. By high school, we had extra choices, but not in elementary. But dd's school ALWAYS had three entree choices, at least 6-8 side choices, a salad or pb&j plate if they didn't like anything else offered, AND a vast array of "extras" that any kid could buy. And not healthy stuff, either. Ice cream, chips, you name it. They were not allowed to bring cash to pay with; they were required to use their debit account. So there was no way for me to control the amount of money dd had to spend on a daily basis. Then her kindergarten teacher informed us that they were prohibited by district policy from intervening in the kids' food choices. So there was my just-barely-5yo, with more or less unlimited funds and a pile of junk food that was hers for the taking, and nobody to provide any guidance to help her make a wise choice. She was literally a kid in a candy store. We had a looooong talk with her about our expectations, but if the teacher hadn't told me that, I wouldn't have even known it was an issue until it was too late. In some instances, they may bring it on themselves. According to this story, only one attempt was even made to contact the parents. It's completely conceivable that they didn't know the account was empty. Our district does allow a negative balance to a certain point and then provides a pb&j. I don't know how they go about collecting funds that aren't paid. I do know that we left a balance in dd's account when we pulled her out of school last year and nobody's come rushing to give us our money. :D Their negative-balance reminder strategy was usually to tell the kid first and (when the kid inevitably forgot to relay the message) follow up with a robo-call in a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSOchristie Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 One private school that I taught at had a pretty sophisticated system called powerlunch. The parent could go in and tell the system that their child was only allowed "Plate lunch or salad bar", if they attempted to get anything else, they were returned to the back of the line to try again :). In this case, the cafeteria workers prepared the tray behind the glass and handed it to the child at the end of the line, so I guess it stopped contamination? The system also had some sort of red flag if the student attempted to get more than one dessert during the lunch period, so that the parent's could be contacted to see if this was okay. But this was a private school with very involved parents, so they all had email and stayed in the loop. It's hard to imagine the chaos that some of these students live in. I know I had kids that I could send a note home every day and never get a response, these were fourth graders who may or may not remember to give their parents the slip from the cafeteria. The parents may or may not have access to a computer and/or phone, so these two methods of communication were spotty. If our principal had something really important that needed to be communicated, he would have to physically go to the house, where they may or may not answer the door. I remember his assistant would go stand by the back door while he rang the doorbell. So sometimes you just want to throttle these parents, but you never wanted to take it out on the kids. You just felt sorry that this was their reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 The problem isn't not giving a free lunch away. The problem is letting a hungry kid hold the food, then take it away. Who would even do that to a kid? And publicly stating that it was because their parents' account was in the red. Again, who would DO that?? We're talking elementary school students here. I agree it was probably not the intended effect, it was just people being really stupid in making and applying policy. I think they deserve the derision they're getting. The problem I have is that they took the lunches and threw them away. That helps the cafeteria budget (if that's even the real issue) get out of the red exactly how? What was accomplished other than humiliating the kids? They should have a better way of dealing with non-payment than wasting food and leaving kids hungry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 My school district's lunch and breakfast is flat rate like Ikea kids meals style. The child will key in his/her lunch account number on the pinpad at the cafeteria window (in front of cafeteria kitchen), tell the person which set they want and the person will give the child the lunch tray with the requested set. Parents usually pay a month's worth of lunch into their kids accounts. If kids buy breakfast as well, then the lunch money will run out before the end of the month. Parents get an alert when the amount is low on their kids accounts. Our school lunch is flat rate. Breakfast is another flat rate. Then they offer things like candy bars and ice cream for ala carte prices. We really struggled last year with our K child buying candy bars and explaining 1) they were expensive compared to the price in the store and 2) we couldn't afford for him to have a candy bar everyday. There were days he had a negative balance in his lunch account until the new budget period started because the only way I could prevent him getting a candy bar at school was not having money in the account. They couldn't tell him he could buy lunch food but not allow the sweets and extras. He is doing MUCH better this year, thankfully. But I relied on the school NOT allowing my kid to buy lunch if his account was negative which I guess is why this news article does not shock and alarm me. (And the place where it is set up, as far as I have seen, they don't ring the child up until AFTER they get their food. It is entirely possible they get to know a few kids though and might stop them getting in line beforehand. But I can't imagine this being every kid in the school body) ETA: And I've also had the problem of feeding him at home. Him saying he's "Full" and then gettng ANOTHER meal at school -- I don't know if its because he wants to eat with his friends or because he likes what they are offering that day. But the time I find out he can't even remember doing it :( We were able to get them to NOT allow him to purchase breakfast at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Couldn't this be solved by moving the cash register to the front of the line? Maybe give the kid a color-coded chip ( like the tags they give you in the dressing room). Blue means basic lunch only, green means you can pick any extras you want, purple means emergency sandwich because you're out of lunch? Drop the chip in a bucket and sit down to eat. They're not asking the poorest kids to skip lunch . . . they get free lunch. This is about getting the families who make enough for reduced or full-priced lunch to pay their bill. This should really all be squared away by the adults so that the kids aren't making choices that they shouldn't be allowed to make. I remember when our school system went to monthly billing, my mother got an unexpected bill. My brother was eating breakfast at home, then eating AGAIN at school and she didn't know until she got the bill. I think she ended up sending a breakfast snack to school after that so my brother could eat (again) with his friends, but sheesh. Soon schools will have to collect first and last month's lunch fees to operate their food programs in the black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Did y'all see this? Wonder what committee thought this was a good idea http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/01/30/268964470/utah-school-draws-ire-for-taking-kids-lunches-debt-cited It sounds more like the district's Child Nutrition Manager made a really bone-headed executive decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 The problem I have is that they took the lunches and threw them away. That helps the cafeteria budget (if that's even the real issue) get out of the red exactly how? What was accomplished other than humiliating the kids? They should have a better way of dealing with non-payment than wasting food and leaving kids hungry. :iagree: The decision to waste the food and humiliate the kids is what got my back up. When my dc were in ps, I had the *darndest* time keeping money in their accounts. They would be out of money by the third week, leaving over a week to go. Supposedly, it was the a la carte items, but neither child said they got anything (I included extra money for Friday ice cream in my payments). I am anal retentive about money and paying bills, etc, so it more than annoyed me that this happened week after week, every year for both kids. Honestly, I hate the a la carte options. It makes it so difficult to know what the cashier is actually charging to an account. In fact, I just read a news item that a school cashier was arrested for skimming a bunch of money from kids' accounts. IIRC, it was in the thousands. I wonder if this doesn't happen a lot. I would like to see the a la carte option done away with, but I know that won't happen--- our local high school has several buffets where the kids help themselves and the cashiers charge by the item, so how would a 'one price lunch' work there? A la carte pricing just opens a HUGE window for erroneous charges, resulting in incorrect balances. I don't know what the solution is, but I'm immensely grateful that I only dealt with it for a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 We always paid for lunch/punched our lunch tickets before we went into the lunchroom at all the schools I attended. Our schools have the computer set up at the front of the line as well. They do allow negative account balances up to a certain amount (not sure what that amount is, though). They don't have a la carte items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSOchristie Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 All this talk of offering candy bars and ice cream brings us to another thing that always bothered me. Why were we offering this junk? If the parents wanted their kids to have junk, why couldn't they buy it themselves to be offered after school? I also had kids on free lunch who would buy ice cream every day...and eat only a fraction of the lunch provided :confused1: . What benefit comes from offering junky food (I know there is revenue potential, but at what cost?). How many kindergarteners faced with the choice of a candy bar or not would choose no? I know mine wouldn't, it would be "yes, please, and thank you!" One school I taught at sliced fresh apples and sprinkled them with red jello :ohmy: . Having a child with a red dye allergy, I just cringe looking back on that. If you gave my first grader red dye you have just taken yourself to the threshold of hell where he would promptly escort you over. How many of my students who had learning problems could have been helped by eliminating the expensive junk provided by the cafeteria. Wow, completely derailed, but I had forgotten all this nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachyDoodle Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 All this talk of offering candy bars and ice cream brings us to another thing that always bothered me. Why were we offering this junk? If the parents wanted their kids to have junk, why couldn't they buy it themselves to be offered after school? I also had kids on free lunch who would buy ice cream every day...and eat only a fraction of the lunch provided :confused1: . What benefit comes from offering junky food (I know there is revenue potential, but at what cost?). How many kindergarteners faced with the choice of a candy bar or not would choose no? I know mine wouldn't, it would be "yes, please, and thank you!" One school I taught at sliced fresh apples and sprinkled them with red jello :ohmy: . Having a child with a red dye allergy, I just cringe looking back on that. If you gave my first grader red dye you have just taken yourself to the threshold of hell where he would promptly escort you over. How many of my students who had learning problems could have been helped by eliminating the expensive junk provided by the cafeteria. Wow, completely derailed, but I had forgotten all this nonsense. Agree. I was SHOCKED the first time I entered the school cafeteria and saw what they were offering. Of course, that was after they sent home the list of things I *could* and *couldn't* send my kid to eat for snack, or for class parties. So I guess it's okay when they're making money off of it, but not okay when I buy it for my own kid? (Not that I ever sent candy bars for snack!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I live in a fairly HCOL area. Someone outside the range of free/reduced lunch income wise can still afford to send a packed lunch if they budget wisely. I don't accept that families above the poverty line can't financially afford to feed their children something for lunch. In even higher cost of living places, the district income cutoff should be higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excelsior! Academy Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Taking food away from an elementary aged child and trashing it is unacceptable. Yes, the child's parent should pay for the lunch. It sounds like the disconnect happened by allowing the child to get a tray before hitting the cash register. Most likely the parents knew the child's account was low or getting close to it. I am going to have to agree with Queen Goddess of the Deep on this one. When I was in middle school we could purchase al a cart or a hot lunch or both. Me, being the goofy teen I was, ordered a piece of chocolate pie and a zeltzer seltzer every day. Aside from feeling badly I used up my school lunch $ quickly. My dad was of the opinion that he provided enough for lunch and as a teen if I used it unwisely then I was choosing to live with the consequences. A young elementary aged student may not be prepared for that kind of responsibility, but couldn't an alternative solution be used? Could the parents send notes of approved items? "I am sending x dollars for junior to get the hot lunch with no al a cart options." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Ok, none of the districts I ever attended had ala carte items. We had ala cart items in Jr high. I remember ordering just french fries a lot. :ohmy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 It sounds more like the district's Child Nutrition Manager made a really bone-headed executive decision. I agree, it isn't ok to take food from kids and throw it in the garbage. I am sure there are many different issues at play but in no way were their actions acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 ...I'm not entirely sure how that would work. Go to the cash register before you choose food. But what if they choose ala carte after the cash register that is more than they have in the account? Would they need to have cash registers before and after? What happens at IKEA if you get a plate of food, get to the cash register, and don't have money to pay for it? What do you expect them to do if a kid shows up with a tray lunch and no money to pay for it? Even when we were kids, you had to pay for your lunch in order to get to eat it. Do my taxes pay for IKEA? Do my taxes pay for subsidies that reduce costs at the food at IKEA? I don't think most parents send their kid to IKEA to eat lunch without them. If I am there I pay for my kid's food. If I am not there I am forced to rely on my kid being responsible for her own money. While dd was in Kindergarten that wasn't exactly an easy task. Are you saying you believe it is justified for a school to take a lunch out of a child's hands and throw it in the trash rather than let them eat it? They do a lot of things differently than when I was a kid because they realized those things were stupid. My mom went to school during segregation, doing things differently is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSOchristie Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 This article says it cost around $3.25 for a school lunch in NC. That is shocking to me! I feed our whole family for under $15 a day. According to this article, that would only cover the cost of each of us having one lunch :huh: . We eat hardly any processed or preprepared foods, so it's not like we're living on boxed mac and cheese. I can see why it's such a struggle for schools to earn enough money to cover their costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingedradical Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I don't know for sure what happened here, but I doubt that it is a case of the school just suddenly deciding to get strict. You have no idea how many parents just let lunch bills go, telling children to charge the food when they already owe much money and have been contacted by the authorities again and again. The thing is, if they are really that short of money, they can get lunches for free or at a reduced rate, if they will just take the time to apply. Or, they can send a sack lunch, which is cheaper yet. But many people just hope if they don't pay, they'll get freebies. Here, students can get the standard non-a la carte lunch for several days if money isn't on your card. The student is told of the situation, but not in an embarrassing way. The parents are told of the situation. They are told each time a lunch is eaten that isn't paid for. After about 5 lunches, the child gets a cheap sandwich for which the account is charged $1. I think, although I'm not sure, that they'll get the sandwich forever, whether paid or not. I'm afraid I don't see anything unfair about that. I'm sorry if the kids were embarrassed, but it was the parents who embarrassed them, not the school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachyDoodle Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I don't know for sure what happened here, but I doubt that it is a case of the school just suddenly deciding to get strict. You have no idea how many parents just let lunch bills go, telling children to charge the food when they already owe much money and have been contacted by the authorities again and again. The thing is, if they are really that short of money, they can get lunches for free or at a reduced rate, if they will just take the time to apply. Or, they can send a sack lunch, which is cheaper yet. But many people just hope if they don't pay, they'll get freebies. Here, students can get the standard non-a la carte lunch for several days if money isn't on your card. The student is told of the situation, but not in an embarrassing way. The parents are told of the situation. They are told each time a lunch is eaten that isn't paid for. After about 5 lunches, the child gets a cheap sandwich for which the account is charged $1. I think, although I'm not sure, that they'll get the sandwich forever, whether paid or not. I'm afraid I don't see anything unfair about that. I'm sorry if the kids were embarrassed, but it was the parents who embarrassed them, not the school. This is very similar to the way our district handles overdue accounts, and I think it's very reasonable. The difference I see in this situation, however, is that the children were served lunches that were then taken away and thrown in the trash. Either way, the district was going to have to eat the cost of that food. I would think most reasonable adults should have been able to come to the conclusion that allowing the children to eat the lunches rather than pitching them would be the sensible thing to do under the circumstances. In the end, it actually cost the district more because they threw out the lunches and then provided different food as an alternative meal. Yes, the parents were at fault for not paying, but the school was also at fault for serving a full lunch to a child with an overdue account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 This article says it cost around $3.25 for a school lunch in NC. That is shocking to me! I feed our whole family for under $15 a day. According to this article, that would only cover the cost of each of us having one lunch :huh: . We eat hardly any processed or preprepared foods, so it's not like we're living on boxed mac and cheese. I can see why it's such a struggle for schools to earn enough money to cover their costs. Don't forget that they have to pay the cafeteria staff... and utilities for that space. Although you pay utilities, you don't likely connect it to your food budget...... and you aren't getting paid for the cooking/serving/cleaning..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 This article says it cost around $3.25 for a school lunch in NC. That is shocking to me! I feed our whole family for under $15 a day. According to this article, that would only cover the cost of each of us having one lunch :huh: . We eat hardly any processed or preprepared foods, so it's not like we're living on boxed mac and cheese. I can see why it's such a struggle for schools to earn enough money to cover their costs. At my boys' high schools (they go to different schools) the cost of the basic student lunch is $2.50. The cost for staff and other adults is $3.25. I *believe* the high school kids can choose to get extras (items that aren't included in the basic lunch), which would of course increase the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH_Homeschooler Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I have heard of some really boneheaded decisions made by school lunchroom personnel on different occasions, in different districts. Kids are now supposed to be able to have unlimited amounts of fresh vegetables and fruit with their school lunches, and I heard of a lunch server in the local district who whined and moaned about having to open a fresh bag of broccoli for kids who wanted it. Seriously, you're going to stand in the way of kids who WANT to eat broccoli? So I can believe someone in a similar position would get into some power trip and decide to take food away from kids to prove a point. Arggh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachyDoodle Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 At my boys' high schools (they go to different schools) the cost of the basic student lunch is $2.50. The cost for staff and other adults is $3.25. I *believe* the high school kids can choose to get extras (items that aren't included in the basic lunch), which would of course increase the price. It was $2.50 as well for dd's school (in NC) last year. But I understood the article to state that the actual cost of producing the meal was closer to $3.00+. They are blaming this on nutrition standards and the cost of healthy foods, as well as saying that's why they have to sell all the junky a la carte items, like french fries, in order to make up the difference. But at dd's school, I don't see what was so healthy about even a lot of the plate lunches. They served a "taco stick" (basically a prepackaged burrito kind of thing that was microwaved and handed to the kid still in the plastic bag) at least every other week. Many of the other meals were of similar quality. And french fries were still on the menu, not just available a la carte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Most fast food places, if they screw up your order, they will replace the messed up item. They don't ask for it back, though. What's the point when it would be thrown away anyway? Good customer service outweighs shrinkage concerns 95% of the time. It's common sense to have kids pay first unless they have a la carte. And stupid to have a la carte for elementary kids. Limited menu choices: X or Y entree, A, B or C side, here's your milk." That's all there should be to it, so that the lunch has a fixed cost and you can put the register (or, if they've gone to all debit accounts, the i.d. scanner) first. Fortunately this is the set up in the district that runs DD's enrichment program. Of course, the food is kind of lousy, and if we didn't qualify for free lunch I wouldn't pay for it--I'd send lunch instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Do almost all the students in those districts already qualify to have lunches paid for by the state? I don't know of any school districts that have unlimited financial resources or the funds to feed the entire student body at no cost to the students. TINSTAAFL. ETA: This explains it. "The cost of the free meals will be covered by the federal government." For the top question, if you were asking about cheese/PB&J for kids who had zero balance…as far as I know, there was not a high percentage on free/reduced lunch. I think it was under 50%. But yes, for the programs that will cover all kids, it's being covered by the federal gov't. I think; 'To participate, a certain percentage of students in a district must qualify for free meals. That threshold — in light of the absence of student applications for free meals — is developed through a complex formula that includes such factors as the percentage of families in a community who receive food stamps." This article also looks good http://www.huffingtonpost.com/regina-weiss/should-school-lunch-be-fr_b_791425.html "Some of the most telling comments in Free for All come from food service personnel, the people most directly responsible for serving up lunch in the roughly 94,000 schools nationwide that participate in the National School Lunch Program. Consider this. The bill Congress passed yesterday will provide 6 cents more per meal for school lunches nationwide. This is considered a victory by anti-hunger and child nutrition advocates, not least because it is the first non-inflation-adjustment increase provided for school meals in three decades. However, when Poppendieck asked food service providers whether, given a choice, they would prefer a 50 cent increase per meal to do their jobs or the ability to provide free meals to every child without any increase, they unanimously chose the latter. "In part this is a matter of principle [for the service providers]," she writes, "but they also anticipated enormous savings from removing the burden of determining eligibility, certifying, verifying and counting and claiming." Government studies have concluded that hundreds of millions of dollars would be saved by eliminating the administrative burden of keeping track of which children are eligible for free and reduced price meals. However, Poppendieck is careful to point out that these savings alone would not pay for the costs of providing free meals to all school children. She does, however, propose a menu of reasonable and pragmatic avenues to pay for such a program." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Like many citizens who pay substantial local taxes, I attend the school budget forums, where people protest against the annual 4% salary grid raise and undisclosed benefit raises the staff is getting. Lots of testimony presented, lots of demographic data, and this topic is always a hot button. Seems that many of the newer district residents feel that everything needed for school should be supplied by the district (ie other citizens), including lunch, pencils, backpacks etc. since they aren't getting raises of that magnitude and are seeing large hikes in the cost of heating their home, rent to cover taxes, and the addition of co-insurance costs to their medical insurance plus the rising premium. Many have brought and presented their personal budgets as they discuss the salary and benefits the district has contracted to give its employees Very interesting. Suffice it to say that I've learned what big companies not to work for...I'd be bankrupt if I had to pay the health insurance deductibles their employees have. People who aren't eligible for gov't aid prgms are struggling and speaking up about it, others are hooking them up with community help. The area foodbank, for ex, has distributed 50% more meals this year than five years ago...and that's with no big immigration wave like we had after 9/11. Free breakfast and lunch for everyone under 19, private, public, or homeschooled, is provided here in the summer time thru federal funding. Many, as evidenced by their commentary at public meetings, would like to see that extended throughout the year. I'd encourage you to get involved if you are so unaware of the face of hunger in your area. It's tremendous. Yesterday I fed two boys who had a budget of a quarter each for lunch (reduced lunch kids usually). There was no lunch offered at school as it's exam week here...they were planning on picking up cans/bottles from the school trash, then walking down to the store, redeeming them, and buying kraft mac-n-cheese to microwave at one of the boys' homes. I only found out because it was 10 F here and I offered them a ride. The candy bars and ice cream and sodas and bottled water are offered to increase revenue, which will be used to fund the free/red lunch program. That's crazy. Free breakfast and lunch for everyone, funded by optional junk food ? What a knuckleheaded way to raise money. And increase waistlines. The schools in my town are so old, there are no cafeterias. You order lunch and it comes to your classroom in a bag. There are two options. That's it. I am amazed to read about snacks and treats offered to kids in schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSOchristie Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 That's crazy. Free breakfast and lunch for everyone, funded by optional junk food ? What a knuckleheaded way to raise money. And increase waistlines. The schools in my town are so old, there are no cafeterias. You order lunch and it comes to your classroom in a bag. There are two options. That's it. I am amazed to read about snacks and treats offered to kids in schools. The further irony is that some of the students getting the free lunch are also bringing $0.50 to $1.00 to buy the optional junk. My favorite is when the cafeteria in my public school served Poptarts, Fruit Loops and toaster strudel for breakfast, expensive and nutrient-less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I just read an article on FoxNews.com about that. I am going to really clean up my language, before I continue typing this reply... I believe whoever in that school district (Salt Lake City) made the decision to do that should be thrown out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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