Husbands, grades, and standardized testing

[lanabug]

Does anyone have some insight on how to handle a spouse who questions if a child is "keeping up?"

 

DH asked me today if I planned on having our girls tested "to know where they are."  He wants to see how they compare to their age peers, and also wants me to give letter grades on assignments so that *he* knows where they are educationally.

 

DDs are 6 and 8 (kindergarten and 2nd grade).  I do not intend to give them standardized tests until late in middle school, as preparation for the ACT or SAT.  I feel like standardized tests are unnecessary and set a child up for failure and disappointment, especially since we are deliberately not studying the same things their public school peers would be.

 

As far as letter grades go, I'm with them all day, every day.  Much of our schoolwork is oral so I have immediate feedback on whether or not they have absorbed the lesson.  For the work that is written, such as math, I go over any missed questions with them and they correct any mistakes.  I am confident that they are working at a level comparable to what their peers are, even above-average in some areas.

 

How did you handle this situation?  DH is not terribly involved in the schooling, but he's a worrier and so I'd like some ways to reassure him that homeschooling is not detrimental to the kids' education.

 

Thanks,

Lana

[Crimson Wife]

Well, I've got a DH who insists on good standardized test scores as a precondition of giving his approval for continuing HS for the following year starting in 2nd grade (that is when the PS in our state start doing standardized testing). He is the head of our household and as I do find the ITBS scores to be somewhat helpful in planning purposes, it's not something that I feel worth trying to change his mind about.

[Erin]

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure what's available for kids that young.  Third grade tends to be the age at which testing starts...

 

That said, I'm a firm supporter of standardized testing because it keeps me accountable.  It also gives DH real information for how Buck's doing.  All the wailing and gnashing of teeth are irrelevant in the face of his test scores, KWIM?  

[FriedClams]

We test. I think it's a skill - and one that practice and familiarity can help. Ironically, my kids think its the best school week of the year. They go to a local church, bring snacks, have recess. They love it. Before going we cover filling in bubbles, drink water, get food rest. It's fun for them - and an attitude is like them to keep through their LSATs or GMATs,. LOL. It's really not a huge deal for us - I don't make it one and the kids don't see it as one.

[mom2bee]

I don't think there is anything wrong with a parent wanting to know--objectively and in writing--how their child is doing in school.

 

You don't have to wave the grades in the girls face and you shouldn't need to grade every single assignment. Maybe just 1 or two worksheets a week. Make a little check next to anything you have worked with them to correct so that your husband can see what they goofed/needed to review with you.

 

Maybe you can let the girls read to their dad every 1 or 2 weeks, maybe show him what they have worked on?

 

If they are eligible for testing in your area, perhaps consider letting them take the test. There are often more than one test to take, I think, so do your research and find a test you are comfortable with them taking either this year or next.

[IsabelC]

I don't know much about testing as it isn't something we're into. But I think being on the same page with the spouse/partner is a really important part of home ed, even if you are doing all the day to day teaching. I'd suggest lots of discussion between you and your husband so that you both agree on fundamental things such as why you are home schooling, what your goals are and how you think you are going to reach these. Is keeping them 'at grade level' or above of prime importance? What exactly is your man worried about? Would he like to be more involved with the schooling himself (or is he busy breadwinning so you can homeschool)? What would reassure him that you know what you're doing and how the kids are going? Sounds like he'd be happy if they test well, but what if you test and identify some areas of concern - what is the plan then? There's not much point in testing if you don't know what you'll doing with the results once you get them. 

[Harriet Vane]

Standardized tests are a pretty good measure of skills related to math, problem-solving, reading comprehension, or grammar/spelling. They are a poor measure of content areas like social studies or science at the elementary level.

 

My kids have done standardized tests since they were little. It has never bothered them to do so. I have appreciated having the documentation to support the fact that we are doing fine.

[Acadie]

I personally see value in starting standardized testing in grade 5.  As a pp said, test-taking is a skill to be learned and practiced, and I think it's good to start practicing those skills before the scores themselves start to matter, which for us is late middle school since we're considering brick and mortar high school.  

 

I'm so glad we didn't test in grades 1-4 with my oldest, and plan to continue that with my 2nd grade dd.  They're learning so much as they gain and solidify skills in reading, writing and math, and it's to be expected that kids develop on their own timetables in these early years.  If you or your husband wonders if your children have learning challenges that merit evaluation and intervention, that's by all means worth pursuing.  

 

But if they're progressing well and enjoy learning and developing new skills?  Well, it's a wonder to behold!  And I'm so grateful my kids have been able to learn in the early grades unfettered by the standardized inanity that rules most of our lives after that point, lol!

 

Amy

 

  

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

We do the ITBS through Brewer Testing -- very low key, one section a day.  But I think it's as much for my self confidence as anyone's.  K and 2nd seems a bit early to start, but if the $70 buys piece of mind, maybe do it for 4th or 5th.

[73349]

Why not? I don't think taking a standardized test needs to be a big issue. Kids stress over tests at school because the tests are hyped and misused. At home, there are no stakes--it's just another morning's work. They'll probably do just fine, and then he'll feel better.

 

My state requires a standardized test every year while a child is of compulsory age (i.e., starting in first grade). Some tests can be done in your home, with you as the administrator, and with sections scheduled as you see fit. If you don't make a big deal out of it, the kids probably won't either.

[kirstenhill]

The ITBS does start in K or 1st. 2nd grade and under tests are read to the student, so they don't need to be fluent readers to take the test. Another option would be the Peabody test. You have to hire a tester to administer the test, but it is administered orally in an hour or so. It gives more info as to where the child is really at since the tester keeps going until a certain number of questions are missed so you get an accurate picture of grade level - not just how they fare on standard grade level material. We have not used the Peabody for our testing (required in my state) but many of my friends use it!

[madteaparty]

We do the ITBS through Brewer Testing -- very low key, one section a day.  But I think it's as much for my self confidence as anyone's.  K and 2nd seems a bit early to start, but if the $70 buys piece of mind, maybe do it for 4th or 5th.

 

My husband has not requested test scores, but I think I need them. I just started homeschooling and I also need the self-confidence. We are doing ITBS this May.

 

[Crimson Wife]

Standardized tests are a pretty good measure of skills related to math, problem-solving, reading comprehension, or grammar/spelling. They are a poor measure of content areas like social studies or science at the elementary level.

I agree with this. We only generally do the "core" subtests of the ITBS. Though I did have my oldest take the science & social studies subtests last year out of curiosity to see how she'd do (fine, though a bit lower than the math & verbal subtests since the content doesn't line up with the 4 year WTM cycle we follow).

[swellmomma]

When it ~~~Very temporaily~~~ became an issue here, I inundated him with CHARLOTTE MASON ALL THE TIME talk.

 

You wanna talk about school with me babe? Aww, that's great! Let's talk about the trivium! Now let's talk about the quadrivium! What are your thoughts about he efficacy of a spelling by dictation plan for  our kinesthetic learner????

 

It was for fun, and DH readily got the point. And he's a super supporter of Charlotte Mason now too lol :laugh: Also, I had DH spend some time with DS's "peers." The lack of need for testing to see where our kids line up with them, was as apperant to him as it is to me.

 

But if you're not jokey with your huz like that I guess just administering a test would be fine, too.

 

This is how have handled my mother.  Everytime she brought up homeschooling asking about testing, grade placement etc I started in with methodology, philosophy of learning, WTM, CM, and of course specific curriculum scope and sequence.  It tends to show her there is a lot more thought put into this than simply teaching to a test or grade levels etc. 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yeah, I pretty much don't put up with being questioned, either . . .  :lol:

[Lori D.]

Honestly? Testing and prep was not the waste we might have thought.

 

We did testing starting about 4th/5th grade (dependent on the student). Yes, it was helpful to make sure we had not "forgotten" something, and to give the DC a few years of practice in learning how to take timed tests, testing strategies, filling in bubbles correctly, etc.

 

The testing itself took 3 mornings out of the school year, and it was very easy, as we did it with our homeschool group and I was not responsible for any part of it. ;)

 

For the first year they tested, yes, we went through a test prep/tips book and did about 10-15 min. prep, a few days a week for a few months in advance. However, rather than that time being a waste, it actually worked well as a supplement to their subjects from a different viewpoint -- ALWAYS helpful to see things from more than one angle, esp. in the elementary grades, IMO.

 

So testing and test prep did NOT really take away at all from our school, but rather, added a helpful supplement. Plus, by testing for consecutive years (gr. 4/5 up through 8th), allowed us to chart their progress, and see esp. for our DS with mild LDs that he was "catching up".

 

 

The other thing that helped my DH see how our DC were progressing was having him oversee school 2 days a month. I left a schedule and all the materials, and DH was teacher for the day. That was not only helpful for him to see that DC were learning, but gave them some good relational time, AND it really helped ME to hear DH's comments, as sometimes when you are in the day-to-day trenches, it's hard to see the slow progress.

 

- Could your DH be teacher for a day once a month?

- Or once a month, take an evening or a weekend morning and have it be a "show and tell" with daddy?

- Can DH do math or reading with DC one evening a week?

- Can you collect a few math worksheets, phonics pages, history coloring pages (or illustration or clay model), map activities, put them in a folder and let DH see what was learned that week? (Also handy for yourself for keeping a binder of selected work for each grade at the end of the year!) -- for the worksheets, DH can SEE for himself how many are right/wrong answers.

- When DC are older and more fluent with writing, perhaps they can do a back-and-forth "journal" (or even a story) with daddy: He writes a sentence or two in a notebook to them before leaving in the morning, and they write an answer in return for him to read when he comes home.

 

 

Certainly understand if you don't care to do the tests. Just also wanted to reassure you that testing here was not a big deal, and did have a positive side for us -- BUT, there are other things you can do than tests to show DH the progress of DC. BEST of luck in finding a way what works for all of you. Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

ETA

 

PS -- Forgot to add: we totally were NOT following along with whatever subjects the schools were doing, and testing did NOT at all set our DSs up for failure. In fact, both DSs scored off-the-charts high on vocabulary, and on science ALL the time, and we were just doing loads of read-alouds, and living books, experiments, discovery learning, and educational videos all through elementary/middle school -- no formal curriculum.

 

And DS with LDs did surprisingly well, not to mention that the testing experience was good for him to learn how to handle an educational situation that was not in his primary learning-style mode... :) If anything, I would have thought testing might hurt his self-esteem, but it really was rather the reverse. Go figure! :)

[reign]

I would probably just do some testing. I would want him to feel confident in our decision.

[NASDAQ]

Our public schools test in fourth, seventh, and tenth. I'd to that if husband wanted.

 

I put Daughter's work into a red folder for him to look over at the end of the day.

 

Your second grader should be able to test at grade level in reading and math. "Not studying the same thing as the public school" is less of an issue there.

[Camelfeet]

If you don't want to test at that age, could you not look up what your state expects children to have learned/mastered in every grade and show your DH how they are meeting and exceeding these?  More work for you but no testing of young children. 

 

   

[VeteranMom]

My kids used to attend a charter school and they started standardized testing in the first grade.  I've continued to test them with the same test- the ITBS- every other year.  I bought the test through Bob Jones University and was certified to administer the test to the kids.  We're required to submit standardized testing to the school district every other year.  In your shoes, I'd humor dh and test them. 

[MotherOfBoys]

At this young age  I set goals that are noticeable and run them by my husband. Like this year I want son reading fluently and doing addition and subtraction of two digit numbers. My husband said that's a good goal and it can be easily measured. So come May we will see if we are there. It will get harder when they are older so I will probably test for my confidence.

 

With the grandparents, I use the sarcastic method mentioned above.  :hurray:

[MotherOfBoys]

There was a point where my husband needed to listen to the methods and be onboard with the overall hsing method I choose and why. 

[amyk]

The CAT starts in Kindergarten and tests in reading, language mechanics and math. We have always done this starting in Kindergarten (this test is read to the kindergartener) and found it a great encouragement and a rite of passage from one grade to another. There is a test prep booklet you can get to give them an idea of the format of the test and prepare them for what it will be like. The tests are $25 from Seton testing, we take it at home, send it off, they grade it and send you an official document with your child's scores.

[La Texican]

I read a lot about homeschooling and I understand that your goals and the public school goals may not be hitting the same milestones at the same time. I understand that the public school children are "taught to the test", the type of reading comprehension questions they're taught every day are the type they'll see on the test. I've read that, for example on the accelerated reader program the schools use, the kids will read a story and the comprehension question won't be about the pkot, but about what color shoes a charachter wore. I know that twtm and several other homeschool programs reccomend a lot of oral work, one on one discussions, and not necessarily the same type of output required when you have a different teacher each year teaching a group of twenty-five children with different academic needs trying to make sure they all make the same measureable, provable amount of progress. As long as he understands all of that then maybe you'll feel more comfortable letting them test. If your second grader can do oral narrations and copywork but scores low on reading comprehension then they might be behind, or else the other children have been trained for this type of question and drilled on timed seatwork every day while your child has been hearing read-alouds and learning about plots, similar stories, and charachter lessons. I'm not saying your child will not do well. I'm asking if these are your concerns.

 

My husband goes to work and earns the money. I teach, feed, bathe, and watch the kids. I'm here with them all day and he is not. I would not ask him to teach the kids for one day, or ask the kids to do a full lesson in front of him. He already does a lot of work, and he is already spending all the time he doesn't work with me and the kids. He wants to spend that time with us relaxing. He wants to know what the kids are doing, and that they're doing good. The kids are his pride and joy as much as they are mine. He has his own hopes and fears for them same as I do. Parents want their kids to succeed and have a good future. I tell him about our day. I tell him if the kids got in trouble, and for what. I tell him if we spent the day gardening, or playing outside, or making art, or watching tv. He knows what the kids are doing with their time. I put a worksheet or a drawing on the fridge every week or so and he sees the kids skills growing. I tell my kid every week or two to go read a story to his dad and he's seen him grow into barely missing a word, and then into putting dramitazation in his voice as he reads. I write down a few math problems on a sheet of paper, some that my kid has mastered, and some that he's trying to learn, and tell him to "go explain these to your dad." It quickly shows what he's mastered and what he's working on and only sort-of understands. This does not address the testing question, but it's how I keep my husband up to date on our kids quickly, consistantly, in only a few minutes instead of asking him to do what I do so he understands. Maybe your husband hasn't said it, but mine has, so I understand how he feels and what he wants. He says, "I'm not home with the kids all day, you are. I'd like to be, but one of us has to work for a living." I don't take that to mean that he wants to spend one of his days off doing what I do, but that he wants to live vicariously, for lack of a better way to phrase it. He certainly likes to take a few minutes every few days while the kids show him something they did. He gets involved with it. He says, "oh look, you're getting goid at this. Or, oh this part needs a little work. I like what you did over here better."

[Trilliums]

We didn't do any standardized testing until middle school and the kids never recieved grades until they started at the public high school last year in grades 9 and 10.  They went on to get all As in challenging classes and do very well on standardized tests.  Older son took PSAT this year and scored well above last year's National Merit cut off.

 

When we started homeschooling the kids were in K and grade 1.  DH did at first want them to be tested and we did consider it.  I see testing and grades as the model we are used to due to the public school model but I do not automatically assume that it is therefore the best model for my kids.  My kids are definitely asynchrous learners.  After about two years of hsing and trying to adhere to the state standards, I stopped worrying about them all together,  I don't know whose kids DO learn in those neat, tidy linear fashions, but it was not my kids.  Since I saw standardized testing primarily as a means for schools to evaluate student progress on state standards, I saw little reason for us to use them.  DH and I did discuss it but ultimately, since I was the one handling the homeschooling, the decision was mine.  He would not dicatate to me what must be done in order for us to continue hsing. 

 

I see a definite value in preparing for standardized tests in high school such as the PSAT, SAT and ACT, tests that would influence our kids' college acceptance, but I do not think they need years of standardized testing to do well on them.\

 

Also...these tests...oh vey.  The standardized tests I have looked through for my kids have been frustrating.  They seem to actually discourage analytical thinking.  I remember the kids and I ending up quite bewlidered by state test prep material around grade 2..  I already knew where they were in computation and vocab, so those sections seemed of little value to us.  The other sections wanted kids to make assumptions and jump to conclusions.  So many "right" answers were incomplete.  I understand (and my kids do too) that they are supposed to pick the *best* answer, but for many of the questions, I do not see the benefit in my kids being able to discern what answer the test writer wanted them to pick.  Both of my kids still mention frustrating questions for the high school level standardized tests (where they do very well!).

 

Here is an interesting blog entry on standardized tests by one time forum member:

http://thehappyscientist.com/blog/problems-floridas-science-fcat-test

 

Full disclosure: 

My kids are gifted with LDs.  Their schooling up to middle school was highly eclectic.  I read TWTM when the kids were in elementary, but found it too rigid for our family.  I re-explored TWTM as the kids hit middle school and were clearly interested in attending college.  We wanted to be sure they had a sound foundation for higher learning.  When older son finished grade 9, he decided  to try public high school primarily to access AP science classes, in person math classes, and gain access to our state's program which pays for high schoolers to take college classes through the school district.  At that time younger son, starting grade 9, decided to start at the high school also so that he could receive an accredited diploma in so desired.  Older son will not receive an accredited diploma since he started in grade 10 and school does not accept home school credits.

[AimeeM]

Well, if it's any comfort to him, most schools do not give letter grades until around grade 3, if I recall DD's early school years clearly - they give "needs work", "acceptable", "excellent", etc.

 

[littlebug42]

If my dh had really wanted testing, then I would have done it.  I did not give grades at that age but dh knew what they were working on and could see that they were learning.  He was good with that.  I did administer the CAT test one year (can't remember which) and it was painless.  Sweet-Pea will begin testing this year, finishing 7th grade.  I do feel it is important now for her to get used to taking these sorts of tests before ACT/SAT time comes around. 

[Kuovonne]

He wants to see how they compare to their age peers, ... so that *he* knows where they are educationally.

...

I'm with them all day, every day. ... I have immediate feedback on whether or not they have absorbed the lesson. ... I am confident that they are working at a level comparable to what their peers are, even above-average in some areas.

 

Both you and your DH want a great education for your kids. You know that you are giving them one because you see it every day. Your DH is not involved in the daily work, so he doesn't have that first hand knowledge of the education they are getting. He just wants more than your personal reassurance. Grades and testing are what he knows when it comes to assessing a student's knowledge. So, grades and tests are what he asks for.

 

How can you give him the reassurance he wants regarding your kid's education? You've already gotten some great suggestions on this thread: standardized, teaching him your educational philosophy will do it, having him spend more academically geared time with the kids. Discuss the options with him and see what will work best for your family.

[Farrar]

Standardized tests are a pretty good measure of skills related to math, problem-solving, reading comprehension, or grammar/spelling. They are a poor measure of content areas like social studies or science at the elementary level.

 

I agree about math and reading comprehension (though I've seen some very poorly written reading comprehension tests, though mostly examples from statewide tests, not the tests people are mentioning here).  However, my children found the grammar and spelling portions to be incredibly frustrating and difficult because they had never learned grammar or spelling by looking at mistakes, only by looking at positive examples, which is the classical way.  If it had asked them how to use a comma or to give an example, that would have been fine.  But looking at page after page of incorrect capitalization and punctuation made all our heads spin and they did not do very well - I don't feel the scores reflected their understanding of grammar at all.  It was just a really different way to do things.  If I were to give another test like that, I'm sure they could do it, but only after real preparation in that type of problem.  Meaning we would need to change how we taught.

 

OP, I find that doing a portfolio that shows example work, lists all the books we've read, all the field trips we've taken, has some pictures of what we're doing, lists the goals we're working on, is good to show dh to keep him feeling positive about the work we're doing.  Standardized tests are not a boogeyman, like everyone is saying, especially if you can pick the test and decide how to use the results or even whether to show them to your kids.  But you can also find other ways to convey to your dh how the kids are doing academically to allay his worries.  I second generally looking for a way to get on the same page about their education and the direction you're taking.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I'm not a fan of testing at such a young age, nor am I a big fan of grades.  I reluctantly gave grades in high school.  We work on a mastery approach.  When it came to math - if the problems weren't correct, we reworked them (and I retaught) until they were.  For writing, if they didn't get something right, they fixed their errors.  Reading (both instruction and read alouds) made up the bulk of our homeschooling efforts.  One problem I have with testing reading at a young age is that there is a wide variety of reading readiness (even comparing very print-rich households.)  There are several components that need to mature before one is ready to pull all of it together to read fluently.  These things really do develop at different rates in different children.  Barring any learning disabilities, I wouldn't do formal assessments of reading until late 2nd or 3rd grade.  

 

I agree with a pp about  having some serious conversations with your dh about what your goals are, how you envision homeschooling and how you want to get there.  It doesn't sound like he is really on board with homeschooling if he is that insecure about how they will progress.  Perhaps he can't envision anything that doesn't look like "school at home."  I would go with a portfolio or 10 minute show and tell for dad every day and do some benchmark testing around 3rd grade.  You could definitely sit down together and draw up a list of goals for the year and periodically evaluate where you are in relation to those goals. 

 

I guess I get annoyed with having others who don't do understand the job having say in whether or not I am doing it well.  That came to parenting and homeschooling. 

[TianXiaXueXiao]

This may come off as snarkiness, but I would have my husband take the standardized test himself for 12th grade to have him evaluate whether it offers a true reflection of everything he has learned. Then I would have him take the tests that are the appropriate grade levels for the kids, so he can see what is being asked of them. If he concludes that they are reasonable, I would agree to his terms. If he finds them to be unreasonable, I would encourage him to just perform his own oral tests with the children based on what they have been learning according to your lesson plans.

[Rubix]

I did have my DD do the online DORA and ADAM tests for reading and Math.  She is almost 7, and we took them this fall.  We will take again in Spring to look at progress. 

 

My DD is advanced in those areas, so it was not to see if she was keeping up, but what areas are stronger, and what areas are relatively weaker. 

 

They are both online, inexpensive, and only cover reading and math, so there is less bias against kids that are not following the school schedule for other subjects. 

 

I will warn you though that they can be a little time consuming, especially if they are above grade level.  The tests adapt to the answers given, so it can take a bit!  I would do them on different days, and take time to pause and do something else for awhile! 

 

The website is www.letsgolearn.com  if you are interested in going this route.  It will save their scores, and give you recommendations for working on the areas that have lower scores. 

 

Edited to add:  The results are available right away and can be downloaded and printed immediately. 

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

I am thankful to be a part of a Calvert study group this year.  All of our school age children have had free testing before the school year started, Midterm can be taken up until March, and there is a Final ( Sometime later). They are wonderful to email me and help me if I have questions or problems ( technical).

 

They also used  www.letsgolearn.com  

and it does cover reading, comprehension and phonics and Adam Math testing.. 

 

We are part of the : Other group that does not use Calvert. 

 

We will be paid for each child after the final exam for participating in the study. 

 

I have always used the Saxon Math tests, Iowa tests and many Spectrum workbooks to test at home. 

 

The series of books : What Your First Grader should know, etc. may help too.

 

 

I am grateful for the opportunity and pleased with the results.

 

Prayers for your family and marriage.

 

 

[Guest]

Chiming in to say that when I started hsing, I *thought* I was against standardized testing. When my oldest was in, I think, 5th grade, I had her do the CAT. It was very non-threatening because I could do it at home. Once I did it though, I was SO glad I had done it and I decided I was going to continuing administering again and again.  :thumbup1:  It was tremendously better having an objective assessment of how well my kids were doing and it gave me something concrete I could use with any nay-sayers if necessary. 

 

My dh was against hsing initially; he went along with it with great reluctance. He didn't brow-beat me about tests and knowing how they were doing, but it was handy to have that info. I was also lucky because my oldest is quite academically excellent, so she "proved" homeschooling better than I could have hoped! 

[DianeW88]

Meh.  The first standardized test my two oldest kids ever took was the ACT to get them into college.  They aced it.  My youngest (13) has never taken a standardized test...nor will he until he's ready to apply to a university.  You know your kids.  If you don't think they need to take one, don't bother.  If it's causing consternation with your dh, try and explain it to him.  Mine never questioned my methods or results, so I can't really give you advice in that department.

[ElizabethB]

I gave the ITBS for practice yearly until last year when we switched to the DORA and ADAM k-7 online tests. Since we are military, several of the states we may live in require yearly testing and I wanted to get my kids used to it from the get go. The ITBS was not that informative, but the ADAM and DORA from letsgolearn were since they are computer adaptive. Also, since they had to type in the spelling and not just pick an answer, I found out that my daughter was less ahead in spelling than I thought, and less ahead in that area compared to her other Language Arts scores. So, I added back in spelling after the test, we had dropped it for a few years. There were also a few other areas that the letsgolearn tests were able to pinpoint that the ITBS was not.

 

While the ITBS was not that informative to me, it did help give my husband peace of mind that we were doing fine academically, and it is good test taking practice, it helped build test taking skills. (Read the questions of the boring stories first, pay attention to boring stories even if you think they are boring so you can answer the boring questions, how to pick multiple choice math answers even if you don't know how to do the problem, etc.)

[RootAnn]

I gave the ITBS for practice yearly until last year when we switched to the DORA and ADAM k-7 online tests.

 

Homeschoolbuyerscoop has a deal which saves you $5 on these tests, usually. The math one is here & reading one is here.

 

I'm not big on standardized testing until 3rd/4th grade. My husband is/was much like yours! I still show him how the kids are doing -- good & bad -- each week. They read out loud to him. He sees their spelling papers & their handwriting on copywork. He sees their math tests.

 

I will encourage you, like another poster did (Lori D?), to have him take over teaching a day or two every month or two. It really helps both our perspectives. As to "how are they doing vs. their age peers" - kids in K-3 are all over the board & hopefully you can help him see that.

[lanabug]

Thank you all for the thoughtful and insightful responses.  I've realized that my objection isn't to standardized testing in general, just unnecessary for this particular stage of our early education.  

 

I have also realized that I am not doing a good job of communicating with dh about what we're accomplishing each day and what our goals are for the year.  I do keep a portfolio of their work, so I will make it a point to have it more available for dh.  And I will coach the girls to be ready to tell daddy something they learned when he comes home from work.  I know he will appreciate the opportunity to connect with his kids.

 

I appreciate all the wisdom you've given me!

 

Lana

[lanabug]

Thank you all for the thoughtful and insightful responses.  I've realized that my objection isn't to standardized testing in general, just unnecessary for this particular stage of our early education.  

 

I have also realized that I am not doing a good job of communicating with dh about what we're accomplishing each day and what our goals are for the year.  I do keep a portfolio of their work, so I will make it a point to have it more available for dh.  And I will coach the girls to be ready to tell daddy something they learned when he comes home from work.  I know he will appreciate the opportunity to connect with his kids.

 

I appreciate all the wisdom you've given me!

 

Lana

[Lissande]

Lana, in reading through this thread I've just been thinking that your husband may not be wanting grades and standardized tests so much as simply to know that the children are on target, so to speak. In my experience it is hard to know what an average child of a certain age is capable of doing unless you've been exposed to that age a lot.

 

You probably have a handle on what a 6 and 8 year old can do, because 1) you are busy teaching your actual 6 and 8 year old, and 2) your homeschooling research has probably involved a good deal of information about what other children that age do.

 

Your husband, at least if he's like my husband, probably doesn't have a clear idea of what children that age "should" know or do, so just telling him "this is what we did today" (while definitely the right place to start) may not be enough. He probably wants a sense of how that compares to what other children are doing.

 

As an example, my husband is an only child, so his only frame of reference for childhood development and academic achievement is what he remembers from his own childhood. He also learned English as a teenager, so he has no idea of what normal English development looks like for a native English speaker. (I have the same issue in the opposite direction.)

 

He was concerned when our first child started talking and said things like "goed" for "went", so it helped when I told him that it actually was a good sign, since it meant she had learned the grammar rule (form past tense with -ed) and was applying it, albeit incorrectly. I also said - key point here :) - that other native English speakers do the same thing as children.

 

He also asked me recently why our daughter writes so oddly (ok, he used a milder word). Our six-year-old trilingual kindergartener is still learning to read but loves writing notes, like this restaurant menu she wrote in her room the other day: "Wy hav evryfyn wet yoo wd lik" - We have everything what you would like.

 

I think he was a little concerned that not a single word was spelled correctly. Can that possibly be normal?? I told him yes, it's common for children to sound out things and use "invented spelling", since they haven't learned the rules yet. Also just because public school kids are writing "sentences" and "paragraphs" in kindergarten and first grade, it doesn't mean they're WELL written.

 

Then I googled "first grade writing sample" and showed him a few examples - a few better than our daughter's, a few worse, and many of similar quality. I also looked for kindergarten writing samples to compare. This helped reassure us both that she's not totally off track.

 

The same applies to other subjects as well - I imagine a lot of people simply don't know when what things are covered, so they don't know if an eight-year-old should be adding two-digit numbers or doing long division.

 

This is all a long-winded way of saying that it might be good to show him some samples not just of what your children are doing, but also what other children the same age do. You could also look up the goals for each grade in your state (or some other trusted source) and show him how your children meet or exceed each one, or why you feel it isn't important that they do so. Of course you should also point out the ways in which your children's experiences are richer and more rewarding than they would be in another setting. That way your husband will have a clearer idea of where things stand in the bigger picture.

[Laura Corin]

I did standardised testing, but just for English and maths (where the sequence is less variable).  I did it to pacify my parents-in-law, using the free online Texas TAKS tests.  They weren't hard and it reassured them.

 

L

[swellmomma]

I was thinking about this thread today and had another question for your husband and you to discuss.  Why is it important for him to see if they are even with age peers.  The main reason I homeschool is so my kids can be where they need to be academically without concern for where everyone else is.  Now in my case my kids have LD so pushing them to keep up with same age peers just to keep up with them would be a problem, but I feel the same way about my neurotypical kid.  They are where they need to be and it doesn't matter if that is below, at or above grade level, it's their level.  As long as continued progress is being made where they fit in in relation to other kids doesn't matter.  What matters is that I meet them where they are and proceed from there.  Standardized testing imo puts too much emphasis on competition with others rather than with self.  Students should be striving each day to do better than they did the day before, not better than the other millions of students in the country. 

[Elisabet1]

My husband never does that. He feels if we did nothing at all all day long, they would learn more than if in public school. He objects to the fact that I put a child in public school and I often have to give him reports on that child to make him less upset about that.

 

With your husband, start sending him articles and facts that support home schooling, and does not support testing. Then when he asks for grades, just do what Jesus did...respond with a question "did you read that article I sent you?" and when he says no, but he would like some grades, you say "go read that article first."

 

IF that fails, do what my own grade school did. Back when I was in school, in the 70's, the report cards were progress reports. Make up a list of goals and then mark a progress marking. If that does not make him happy..then just make a list of subjects and put A's next to them.

 

One thing is though, I would feel if my husband wanted to grade my children's work and/or demand we test them..I would take that as he really wants a grade on what I am doing. He is trying to see if the public school would do better than me. Well, I am his WIFE, he should trust me. IF he wants ME to be graded, then it can go both ways. If my husband demanded a report card for the kids, I would make him one too. I would list things he should be doing and give him grades. I might include stuff like "honoring your wife" and "Putting your wife first" and so on. If I were mad enough (as in, he was very pushy and rude to me), I would probably include references to more personal stuff to grade him on. I am not just talking the bedroom, I mean stuff like picking up after himself, maintaining his hygiene (does he shower first thing in the morning, or wait an hour or two? Every hour can be a deduction in grade) the lawn, the roof, the snow (if you have any), and so on. Whatever would be his job.

 

But my husband never asks this of me. Maybe your husband isn't being pushy and you need to just talk to him and explain to him why you are not doing grades. Tell him to read The Well Trained Mind and explain that this is about progress and what they are learning, not about half-doing it and then being handed a B and moving on. My children are expected to do A level work before they can move on. I do not see the point of doing it unless we do it right. I cannot half give birth and move on, or half shower, or cook dinner half way and move on. And likewise, my children have to do their math full way before they can move on, and spelling, etc.

[Loowit]

My DH is pretty laid back about it which is a good thing, because when we first started homeschooling I was the one stressed about making sure we were doing okay.  I was concerned that if we decided to change our mind that our kids wouldn't know the same things that public school children had learned.  After a year or two I got over that and relaxed a lot.  My state requires annual testing by a qualified tester or an evaluation by a certified teacher.  We have opted to go through testing with a guy associated with a local homeschool co-op.  When my eldest started testing she did great.  She has always tested quite well and to be honest it did make me feel like I was doing okay.  But when my middle got old enough for testing it was a different story.  He is not a good tester.  He struggles with the way things are worded on the tests and it causes his scores to be lower than what he actually knows.  If they were phrased differently he would get a much higher score.  Well except for spelling, he can't spell well at all, but we already know this.  I really wish we didn't need to do annual testing and would give it up if I could.  This year I will be looking more deeply into the evaluation by a certified teacher option for both of my boys for various reasons.

 

For me to keep DH up on what is going on we talk at least once a week about what the kids have done in school.  I don't just talk about what they are doing well, but also areas they are struggling in and what we can do to help.  I think that these conversations help him to feel involved and like progress is being made.