Confessions of an angry Catholic

[Moxie]

I probably shouldn't be typing this but I have no one to talk to about it. DH is barely speaking to me (not that he is angry at me he is very frustrated with the situation and this is how he functions), and my sisters are struggling with infertility.

 

Fact--the Catholic Church views all types of birth control (barrier, sterilization, as a mortal sin. Do not pass go, do not collect $200 dollars, if you die in the state of mortal sin, you go straight to Hell. We can argue about it until the cows come home but that is the teaching of the CC. Period.

 

Fact--NFP is great for some women and for some women it just does not work. I am one of those women for whom it does not work.

 

So, we recently discovered that, despite lots of charts, abstinence, and even an expensive fertility monitor, DH and I are facing another unplanned and (God help me) unwanted pregnancy. The timing of this COULD NOT be any worse. Even DH, who is even tempered to a fault, was visibly upset by this news. That's a great story for the baby book, right??

 

Honestly, I'm pissed off. I'm tired and at my limits. I feel like we've been generous and open to life but there are limits to resources.

 

So what the heck do I do?? I want to be a Catholic in good standing but this will be my last baby. NFP is ineffective for me. I'm 36. My Mother went through menopause at 51--that's a lot of fertility left. Do I leave the Church? Do I do what the majority of Catholics do and ignore this teaching (my sense of guilt is probably too strong)? Do I sleep in the car until menopause? There are no good choices here and I feel screwed either way and it pisses me off.

[bettyandbob]

:grouphug:

[NicAnn]

I'm sorry you at feeling that way. Any time you have to exam large teachings of your religion, or the way you've been living your life...I've been there more than once and it's extremely draining to say the least.

 

I'm not Catholic, so I'll not give any religious advice.

 

Hugs!!!

[Little Nyssa]

:grouphug: 

[Catwoman]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I'm so sorry, Moxie. :(

 

 

 

And to anyone reading this thread, I implore you to PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE not give Moxie a lecture on how she must be doing NFP wrong, or how she should have used traditional birth control if she didn't want to get pregnant. It won't be helpful, it's not true, and it will only make her feel more upset.

 

I really hope everyone here can be supportive and kind.

[Dana]

:grouphug:

[Twigs]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

I'm praying for God to pour out His blessings on you and your family at this time.

[Luckymama]

:grouphug:

 

We chose to ignore the church. I couldn't deal with another pregnancy loss.

[Moxie]

I'm sure I'll insult some Catholics but here goes....

 

Lets just say I know a lot of Catholics who just ignore some of that.

Yep. I believe 98%. But that doesn't really matter to me. I know what the Church teaches so I can't ignore it no matter how much I hate it.

[QuirkyKapers]

:grouphug:  

[QueenCat]

:grouphug: Moxie :grouphug:

[Scarlett]

I probably shouldn't be typing this but I have no one to talk to about it. DH is barely speaking to me (not that he is angry at me he is very frustrated with the situation and this is how he functions), and my sisters are struggling with infertility.

 

Fact--the Catholic Church views all types of birth control (barrier, sterilization, as a mortal sin. Do not pass go, do not collect $200 dollars, if you die in the state of mortal sin, you go straight to Hell. We can argue about it until the cows come home but that is the teaching of the CC. Period.

 

Fact--NFP is great for some women and for some women it just does not work. I am one of those women for whom it does not work.

 

So, we recently discovered that, despite lots of charts, abstinence, and even an expensive fertility monitor, DH and I are facing another unplanned and (God help me) unwanted pregnancy. The timing of this COULD NOT be any worse. Even DH, who is even tempered to a fault, was visibly upset by this news. That's a great story for the baby book, right??

 

Honestly, I'm pissed off. I'm tired and at my limits. I feel like we've been generous and open to life but there are limits to resources.

 

So what the heck do I do?? I want to be a Catholic in good standing but this will be my last baby. NFP is ineffective for me. I'm 36. My Mother went through menopause at 51--that's a lot of fertility left. Do I leave the Church? Do I do what the majority of Catholics do and ignore this teaching (my sense of guilt is probably too strong)? Do I sleep in the car until menopause? There are no good choices here and I feel screwed either way and it pisses me off.

((( hugs))) that is so tough.

 

I do want to say congrats on coming baby.

[Lady Florida.]

:grouphug:  I was a cradle Catholic (Irish-Italian-American, and Catholic on all sides).My family were all cafeteria Catholics. My mother had only 2 children, used birth control, and was divorced. So even if I still called myself Catholic, my advice would not be within the teachings of the church.  :grouphug:

[trulycrabby]

I'm sorry, Moxie. No advice, just support.

[ajfries]

The Catholic Church views all types of birth control as a sin, but what does the bible say?

 

 

 

 

 

[momto10blessings]

I'm so sorry. As a catholic I can sympathize with not wanting to follow every rule. No advice, just sympathy.

Is adoption an option?

[momto10blessings]

Oh, and congrats.

[Corraleno]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I was raised Catholic, and the vast majority of the families I knew used BC to limit their family size. My parents had four kids, 5 and under, by the time they were 24; they really were not even able to handle that many, emotionally or financially, let alone more, so they reluctantly chose to use BC. Further pregnancies would only have resulted in even worse poverty, dysfunction, and mental illness than we were already dealing with. Is family size really so important that God would prefer our family to be a homeless, hungry, and motherless family with 6 or 8 kids, instead of a poor and barely functioning family with 4? How would that honor and glorify God?

[Moxie]

I'm so sorry. As a catholic I can sympathize with not wanting to follow every rule. No advice, just sympathy.

Is adoption an option?

What?? Giving up my baby to someone else is NOT an option! It took me a year to find a babysitter I trust!

[nmoira]

:grouphug:

[BrookValley.]

Yep. I believe 98%. But that doesn't really matter to me. I know what the Church teaches so I can't ignore it no matter how much I hate it.

 

:grouphug:  I'm so sorry. :(

 

This may belong in the unpopular opinion thread, and I say this the most gently way possible (as gently as honest and blunt can be): I couldn't be a part of something that ever made me feel this way. It is unhealthy. It is not loving. If this were an issue between you and your significant other, the advice from many would be to run the other way and never look back.

 

I hope you find a long-term solution that is best for you and your family, one that comes with no guilt. I don't believe these kinds of choices should come with any guilt.  Why should you feel guilty if you do what is best for your children and yourself?

 

Take care of yourself.

[Catwoman]

:grouphug: I was a cradle Catholic (Irish-Italian-American, and Catholic on all sides).My family were all cafeteria Catholics. My mother had only 2 children, used birth control, and was divorced. So even if I still called myself Catholic, my advice would not be within the teachings of the church. :grouphug:

Mine wouldn't, either. Like you, I can only offer support and hugs to Moxie, because I don't have any personal experience with what she's going through, and I know my advice wouldn't be helpful to her.

[mytwomonkeys]

I'm not Catholic, but I'm sure some out there don't abide by that rule.  

 

No words of wisdom here, just a big hug :grouphug:

[gardenmom5]

hugs.  you're in my prayers and very best wishes.  

 

speaking as an unwanted accident (and yeah, I heard about it in my childhood.) . . .  my mother eventually was extremely grateful she had me.

[Moxie]

The Catholic Church views all types of birth control as a sin, but what does the bible say?

I appreciate the thought behind your response but that's not how Catholicism works. I know that that is difficult to grasp if you aren't Catholic.

[momto10blessings]

What?? Giving up my baby to someone else is NOT an option! It took me a year to find a babysitter I trust!

[Cera]

Let me start by saying I am not catholic...or religious in any way.

 

Having said that, I find religion fascinating and have been very interested in what Pope Francis has to say.  His interview in September touched on contraception and it sounds to me like, while it hasn't yet, the official church doctrine might be up for review.  

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/20/world/europe/pope-bluntly-faults-churchs-focus-on-gays-and-abortion.html?_r=0

 

Is there a more liberal priest or bishop you could speak to that might be understanding of your predicament and able to help you find a solution that would work for your family and still honor your catholic beliefs?  

 

[momto10blessings]

What?? Giving up my baby to someone else is NOT an option! It took me a year to find a babysitter I trust!

Sorry.

[Soror]

Well, I'm Catholic as well and in the horrible spot of not quite fertile and infertile and there is no sense to be made of it all.  There is just abstinence even consulting 2 different methods it's all the same.  I'm at the end of my ability right now and feeling very, very done so I really empathize.  I'm trying not to be bitter but it is difficult right now.  

 

 

The Catholic Church views all types of birth control as a sin, but what does the bible say?

I really don't think Moxie wants to get in this discussion here but as an FYI all Christian churches viewed bc as a sin prior to 1930, even those who now readily embrace them .

[Moxie]

Sorry.

No apologies necessary.

[Onceuponatime]

As a Catholic, how serious is it to ignore this rule? Do you go straight to hell, or is it a lesser crime, so to speak? If using birth control is a lesser crime, I would take the future hit for the present peace of mind.

 

That is just the way I tend to think and I am currently not of a religious mindset, so ignore if you want.

[Moxie]

Let me start by saying I am not catholic...or religious in any way.

 

Having said that, I find religion fascinating and have been very interested in what Pope Francis has to say. His interview in September touched on contraception and it sounds to me like, while it hasn't yet, the official church doctrine might be up for review.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/20/world/europe/pope-bluntly-faults-churchs-focus-on-gays-and-abortion.html?_r=0

 

Is there a more liberal priest or bishop you could speak to that might be understanding of your predicament and able to help you find a solution that would work for your family and still honor your catholic beliefs?

Again, the cold hard truth is that birth control is not allowed. Even if 10 priests said it was ok, it wouldn't be.

[applethyme]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: 

[Dandelion]

Sounds like a very difficult spot to be in.   :grouphug:

[carriede]

I'm sorry your so hurt. I don't really know what to say. DH and I wonder if we're on a similar path as you and are unsure of how to approach the issue.

 

It seems to be even worse when there are those who struggle so much with infertility like your sisters. I just found out a good friend of mine not only can't get pregnant, but her insurance won't cover treatments. Yet I get pregnant when DH looks at me sideways after the baby is 18 mo.

 

Lots of hugs and prayers for guidance.

[Moxie]

Well, I'm Catholic as well and in the horrible spot of not quite fertile and infertile and there is no sense to be made of it all. There is just abstinence even consulting 2 different methods it's all the same. I'm at the end of my ability right now and feeling very, very done so I really empathize. I'm trying not to be bitter but it is difficult right now.

 

 

I really don't think Moxie wants to get in this discussion here but as an FYI all Christian churches viewed bc as a sin prior to 1930, even those who now readily embrace them .

Bitter is a very good word to describe my mood right now.

[JustEm]

Moxie,  this won't help you know but after this pregnancy it might.  There is another form of tracking fertility that is more effective than NFP.  It involves bloodwork I believe.  I can't for the life of me remember what it is called right now but I will ask my mother who recently told me about it because of a meltdown I had recently about NFP.  She may even have good resources about it that I will pass on to you.  It is in line with Church teaching so it may be helpful for you in the future.

[Soror]

Bitter is a very good word to describe my mood right now.

I was telling dh the other day abstinence is supposed to make us closer as we are to explore all the non-sexual ways to be intimate, hmph, well, we are well familiar with all of them  thank you very much, they just aren't a substitute.

[unsinkable]

Moxie,

 

I'm very sorry for your pain. You sound so raw right now and rightly so.

 

I am RC, and I know what the Church teaches and agree with it for myself. At the same time, I also believe that I have no right to speak about what others should do.

 

I hope you have supportive people to turn to IRL who can help you wherever you're at, physically, emotionally and spiritually.

 

((( love and hugs )))

[marbel]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

 

When I found myself in disagreement with, and unable to follow, Catholic Church doctrine, I left the Church and became a protestant.

 

It sounds as if you take doctrine really seriously so it's hard imagine you being able to disregard this portion of it. 

 

I'm sorry. 

 

(By the way, a pp asked what the Bible says and you said it didn't matter.  But it does matter:  is the rule Biblical or simply Catholic tradition?  If just tradition, what is the basis of the rule?  I'm  not trying to be insulting or offensive; I just think it does matter in this situation.) 

[tabinfl]

Moving forward, there are ways to be intimate with your husband that (esecially combined with your best shot at NFP) would put you at low-to-no risk of pregnancy.

 

I don't know what Catholicism has to say about the various possibilities, but maybe a family or couples counselor who is also Catholic (or well-educated about the church's doctrine) could help with specifics. This is something that couples deal with in other situations, such as severe illness or disability, where traditional intercourse becomes difficult or impossible, so there are resources out there.

 

It may take time, patience, and open minds for both of you, but it is possible to find ways to maintain an emotional and physical connection without ending up with an unwanted pregnancy.

[Moxie]

I am so very sorry :(

 

Not wanting to be pregnant, but being, in fact, pregnant, is such a helpless feeling. And it doesn't really matter why you're pregnant or why you don't want to be-- you are currently experiencing what millions of women the world over have experienced for millenia. It's it really is just one of those things...to be bourne.

 

Best wishes for peace moving forward for yourself and your husband~

Yep. This is not the world's first or last unplanned pregnancy. And I'm sure I'll eventually be happy about it and we'll love the poorly timed critter. You're right. It is what it is.

[Kalypso]

:grouphug:

 

I’ve been in your situation except I had better luck with NFP between my 5^th and 6^th children and after my 6^th. There is no easy answer. There is no middle ground. You either embrace the Church’s teaching, or you find an alternative that you and your dh can live with. It is HARD.

 

But, one thing I do know, this new life is a blessing. Sometimes, it just takes awhile to feel that way.

 

 I hope you are able to find peace.

[Moxie]

Moving forward, there are ways to be intimate with your husband that (esecially combined with your best shot at NFP) would put you at low-to-no risk of pregnancy.

 

I don't know what Catholicism has to say about the various possibilities, but maybe a family or couples counselor who is also Catholic (or well-educated about the church's doctrine) could help with specifics. This is something that couples deal with in other situations, such as severe illness or disability, where traditional intercourse becomes difficult or impossible, so there are resources out there.

 

It may take time, patience, and open minds for both of you, but it is possible to find ways to maintain an emotional and physical connection without ending up with an unwanted pregnancy.

No go. That would still be contraceptive. Again, hard to "get" if you aren't Catholic.

[Cera]

Again, the cold hard truth is that birth control is not allowed. Even if 10 priests said it was ok, it wouldn't be.

 

I understand that but would YOU feel better about going against the teachings of the religion if you had discussed it with religious leaders who authorized your choice (for lack of a better way to put it).

 

The church is obviously very important to you and your family but your health and sanity are also very important to your family (as well as your husbands).  I don't envy you trying to find the balance between the two.

[SonshineLearner]

Lady Comp  is something that I've heard works better than the pill. If you are already use to temping, it'd be an easy switch. There's one for no babies again ever... and one for if you're trying. The no babies ever is less $$$. I have a friend who used it in real life... no babies except for when they ignored the "Don't have s*x" one...   

I totally understand wanting to space kids or be done. In earlier life, more children died... Look at some who had 10+ and ended up with 5 or 6.....

Hugs... the church's teachings change.... I don't see this in the Bible... don't get hung up on "man's rules" when they're not in the Bible. Enjoy tradition... but Cling to God and His Word! :)

I do think there's validity for most pregnancy control being unhealthy..... so for there to be something natural that works... BONUS!!! :)

[T'smom]

I'm sorry. I'm not Catholic so I have no advice, but you have my sympathy.

[Soror]

Moving forward, there are ways to be intimate with your husband that (esecially combined with your best shot at NFP) would put you at low-to-no risk of pregnancy.

 

 

Not within the teachings of the church.

[SonshineLearner]

:grouphug:

 

We chose to ignore the church. I couldn't deal with another pregnancy loss.

Same as someone close to  me. Many years ago she told her husband.... Couch or something fixed... Unless you want me to die.... :(

[itsheresomewhere]

One of the most die hard catholics I know decided that birth control would was the best solution as her mental health and wellbeing was more important.  She is RC and talked this over long and hard with her priest.  He presented the best ones for certain cases that is permitted.   :grouphug: