s/o If you are a social drinker, would you be frustrated if a formal social event did not serve alcohol?

[Parrothead]

It would not bother me. 

[Seasider]

I would never expect it at a large, ecumenical Christian event, as those in attendance would hold a variety of stances on the issue.

 

I would not expect it if it were in support of a school or youth organization.

 

I might expect it if it were strictly a denominational event for a denomination that does not forbid or discourage alcohol consumption.

 

If it were very pricey, I might want to see a fancy dessert spread in lieu of wine with dinner, just because of the value factor, not because of the actual need for alcohol, kwim?

 

But to complain about alcohol not being served simply because they want to booze? They could easily have a cocktail before arriving. Needing or demanding more than seems odd.

[Lisa R.]

It wouldn't bother me. At all.

 

Though, fundraisers in the evening which include alcohol tend to be more successful in terms of dollars raised.

 

The audience was from a wide variety of church denominations. I would guess many, if not most, are social drinkers. I'm sure there were some that do not drink due to religious, health, or family-history issues. 

 

We were given the advice, over and over, to have alcohol at auction so bidding would go higher. Apparently, this is common knowledge among auction organizers. :)

 

While I did not have a say one way or the other regarding alcohol at the event, I was glad we weren't having it after hearing the above advice. We are a small, close community.  I felt that particularly since we were raising money to build a building for children, I would rather just raise money from people who intentionally and graciously donated than to receive more money and have some of those people later feel somewhat regretful about giving or remorseful at giving at an amount more than they intended.

 

I guess this means I don't have much of a future in fundraising...

 

It really was a great evening. I find it frustrating that when so many volunteers go to so much work and then some find an issue to complain about.  I'm glad to hear that most everyone here feels that the alcohol-free evening is a very minor or non-issue for an event such as this.

[Melissa in Australia]

In my opinion, professional and personal, it would typically only be people with some level of problem who would be upset about no alcohol.

 

It is also typically only people with a problem that care or want others to drink.

:iagree:

[Melissa in Australia]

It would not bother me. I would prefer an event without alcohol.

 

I had no alcohol at my wedding. I wrote on every single invitation that there would be no alcohol at the reception. The people who came to my wedding came to see me get married, not to have a booze-up

[AK_Mom4]

I would not be surprised if alcohol was not served at an event, Christian or otherwise.

 

Many organizations are not interested in taking on the potential liability of serving alcohol at large gatherings.  Depending on state laws, organizations may be held liable if they alcohol at an event and an accident occurs when the person is driving home.

[Tess in the Burbs]

Bringing alcohol to the home of someone who is Mormon and consuming it there is ... well I can't think of one word to describe the level of rudeness, stupidity and more. {unless the host has told people go ahead and drink in my house, but I can't imagine any Mormon doing that}. I wouldn't bring coffee, tea or cola to a Mormon friend's house either. I'd go and enjoy her company and abstain from those things during the few hours I was there. It's not that hard. If I was desperate I'd drink my caffeine before I went.

Ok I will say she had the sodas on the counter herself. Perhaps knowing the invited weren't Mormon she just went with it??

[Jackie]

Frustrated? No.

 

Surprised? Yes.

 

Especially at a fundraiser. Charging obscene costs for inexpensive alcohol and having the profits and tips go to the charity is so common that I always bring cash for that.

[Carrie12345]

The only time I get frustrated is when there IS alcohol and I'm pregnant. ;-p

[Amira]

Wow, what about people who simply did not know that?  I did not know that.  If someone did this knowingly ok, but that they just did this not knowing...how is that stupid?

 

As a Mormon, I don't expect everyone to know exactly what I do or don't drink. I rarely meet people who know all the rules regarding that and wouldn't think someone was stupid or offensive for bringing something I don't drink to my house.  Guests have brought wine as a gift to our house before and it doesn't bother me- I simply thank them. Depending on the circumstances I might not say anything (really, I don't care if you're drinking coffee or tea in my house, although I have zero supplies for it), or I might mention that we don't drink if someone is expecting to drink in our house.  I would, however, be surprised if someone started to drink alcohol they had brought after I explained that we don't drink at our house.  I can't really imagine that happening though.

[bettyandbob]

Wow, what about people who simply did not know that? I did not know that. If someone did this knowingly ok, but that they just did this not knowing...how is that stupid?

I thought Mormon restrictions on alcohol were common knowledge. And when you are invited to someone's home you usually know the person. And if you've gotten know a Mormon it usually comes up that there limitations on alcohol and caffeine.

 

I think they can have soda just not caffeine. It may be an advised not to thing, but the individual is permitted to have alcohol, but I never met a Mormon who drank alcohol or caffeine.

 

If I bring alcohol to a person's home it is as a gift to the host or to contribute to the party. If I am contributing to the party I would ask the host first before opening. If I am giving a gift I simply give it to the host and let the host decide.

 

When I read the post I envisioned an event where people brought their own booze knowing the host would not have any because she was Mormon. Perhaps she ok'd it. Otherwise, I think it's terrible to do that.

[eloquacious]

My husband would probably be a little irked, but my problem is less that alcohol isn't served, as that such events often have a lack of non-alcoholic options. If water or soda (which I don't drink) are my only choices, I might be bummed. (Granted, we are talking a formal social event, not a backyard cookout.)

 

At least maybe some fizzy water and fruit juice, or tea, or a punch, and I'm totally fine. :)

[redsquirrel]

It wouldn't bother me, but I can think of people I know that it would bother.They are all older, I am thinking of people like my ILs and all their friends, who think that an 'adult event' should have wine and cocktails etc. They would have maybe one drink and that is all, but they would expect it. They think of things like soda or juice to be children's food. They also don't eat pizza or hamburgers etc. That is for children as well.

 

They drink mostly coffee or water, occasionally lemonade or unsweetened iced tea during the summer, but a glass of wine with dinner is expected. When I turn it down they are always a bit flummoxed. They are very 'country club' type people and would think a fundraiser without alcohol to be 'cheap'.  They wouldn't complain, but they wouldn't go back. If you want their money then you have to butter them up.

[poppy]

It depends on how much you charged per ticket.  I would assume wine would be included in a silent auction; I've never been to a 'dry' auction in my life.  So if I paid expecting wine and got fizzy water instead I'd be a little irritated.

 

I think talking to a predominantly CC crowd, you will get answers skewed towards that viewpoint.   I also think most people would not think "disappointed there was no booze at the fundraiser" instantly = alcoholic.

[gingersmom]

I would hope people have better things to get all bothered about.

[Chris in VA]

Actually, it would be refreshing.

I'm Episcopalian--our nickname is Whiskey-palians. 

 

I'm so sick of people complaining about needing to ask our vestry (like a board at the church, Rector being the Head) before they serve at events. 

It's our church's policy, and you wouldn't believe how many people *itch and moan about it. 

[poppy]

While I did not have a say one way or the other regarding alcohol at the event, I was glad we weren't having it after hearing the above advice. We are a small, close community.  I felt that particularly since we were raising money to build a building for children, I would rather just raise money from people who intentionally and graciously donated than to receive more money and have some of those people later feel somewhat regretful about giving or remorseful at giving at an amount more than they intended.

 

 

As a person who's been to many auctions and organzied a few, I disagree.  People who drink in moderation and bid a little more than they might stone-cold sober generally know what they're doing.  Oftentimes, they're looking for a fun time and an 'excuse' to give a few extra bucks to a good cause ( while indulging in a trip or trinket or service for themselves). Adults who normally drink socially aren't actually stupid and out-of-control. Trust your guests to be responsible, don't "protect" them from themselves. 

[QueenCat]

Frustrated? No. I would be surprised unless it was sponsored by a conservative Christian group. Sponsored by a mix of churches, or less conservative group, then I'd expect to see it but I wouldn't upset if it wasn't there. However, I would hope there was more of a choice than coffee, tea or water. Soda or something with flavor, please...............

[Excelsior! Academy]

I am not what you would call a social drinker, so I am probably not qualified to answer.   I really feel like someone who is in a tizzy about alcohol or lack thereof being a part of the festivities is a little too focused on alcohol.  It may be a regional thing or the circles I run in, but I rarely go to any functions that provide alcohol.  Recently we (dh and I) went to a $75 a plate dinner put on by a congregation not unlike our own and there was no alcohol served.  No one would even thought to include it.  I don't think $ is what determines whether alcohol is included or not.  Just because people might give more freely during an action with alcohol doesn't not mean one should include it if one is against it for any reason.  Maybe the person or group putting it on are opposed to alcohol, maybe it was expense, maybe they are closet alcoholics and just didn't want the temptation.  Whatever reason doesn't really matter.  You want alcohol or the lack thereof, then host the party yourself.  That is the only way to be certain the details work out as planned.

 

 

On a side note, I agree with Bill.  Breakfast must have coffee.  Unless, of course, Mormons throw the breakfast, then they are excused.  Anyone else must include coffee. 

[Lisa R.]

As a person who's been to many auctions and organzied a few, I disagree.  People who drink in moderation and bid a little more than they might stone-cold sober generally know what they're doing.  Oftentimes, they're looking for a fun time and an 'excuse' to give a few extra bucks to a good cause ( while indulging in a trip or trinket or service for themselves). Adults who normally drink socially aren't actually stupid and out-of-control. Trust your guests to be responsible, don't "protect" them from themselves. 

 

Could you explain further, please? If people who are drinking will bid higher than if they were stone-cold sober (your words), doesn't this suggest that the alcohol's effect is pushing up the bidding rather than a person's clear reasoning?

 

I don't wish to "protect people from themselves" as much as I would prefer (not that I'm in charge...it's just what I personally prefer) that money donated in this case would come from intentional giving. I would not want to take advantage of people. I would feel that intentionally lowering people's inhibitions, even slightly, feels like I would be taking advantage of them. 

[Dandelion]

I wouldn't be frustrated by it, and it would never occur to me to complain.

 

As others have mentioned though, I might be surprised simply because serving alcohol seems to be the norm at these types of events.  And yes, a fundraiser will usually bring in more when alcohol is served. 

[SadieMarie]

I am finding this interesting. I would find it really strange to go to that type of event and not have access to wine or a cocktail.  I might expect a cash bar since it is for charity.  This was the case for a museum fundraiser and auction I attended most recently.   I am also most familiar with denominations that do not prohibit alcohol so maybe that is why.  I would never be so rude as to complain but I wouldn't really want to go.  If it was a cause I cared about I would probably just make a donation and pass on the fundraiser.  I mean, sorry but not much fun to sit around with a lot of people I don't know in formal clothes even with a cocktail or glass of wine.  And dh would be even less interested than me.  Call us a couple of drunks I guess lol.  

[regentrude]

I would not be frustrated and would be able to enjoy myself without alcohol - but I *would* definitely notice and it would feel odd not to have a good wine with a "lovely" dinner. I come from a culture where it would be normal to have alcoholic drinks on such an occasion. I don't get "dry" functions. Not because I must drink (I have one or two drinks a month), but because I would want to have the choice.

I would have no problem with having to pay for my drink, but I should be allowed to have one if I so choose. I don't take kindly to being "protected" - to me it feels like being patronized.

 

ETA: I do not understand what the event being Christian has to do with alcohol. Jesus drank wine. He made water into wine. There is wine at communion. So clearly, wine holds a special place as a celebratory drink. At all church parties in my home church wine was served.

[Barb_]

Although I'm an extrovert, I have moderate social anxiety. If I only know one or two people at a large gathering, I prefer to have a glass or two of wine over the course of the evening.  It helps me to get over myself, stop second guessing everything I'm saying and just enjoy myself already. Oh and to gather the courage to dance, if there's dancing. There's a reason alcohol is used as a social lubricant  :tongue_smilie: However, I wouldn't complain or feel frustrated by the lack of alcohol. 

[Barb_]

I would not be frustrated and would be able to enjoy myself without alcohol - but I *would* definitely notice and it would feel odd not to have a good wine with a "lovely" dinner. I come from a culture where it would be normal to have alcoholic drinks on such an occasion. I don't get "dry" functions. Not because I must drink (I have one or two drinks a month), but because I would want to have the choice.

I would have no problem with having to pay for my drink, but I should be allowed to have one if I so choose. I don't take kindly to being "protected" - to me it feels like being patronized.

 

ETA: I do not understand what the event being Christian has to do with alcohol. Jesus drank wine. He made water into wine. There is wine at communion. So clearly, wine holds a special place as a celebratory drink. At all church parties in my home church wine was served.

 

We have a weird relationship with alcohol in this country.

[Little Nyssa]

I would be a little taken aback by the absence of alcohol-- but to the same degree that I would be disappointed if there were no coffee. Perhaps less so. :)

But to complain about it publicly, especially when volunteers have put a lot of work into the event, that is just plain rude.

[Forget-Me-Not]

I thought Mormon restrictions on alcohol were common knowledge. And when you are invited to someone's home you usually know the person. And if you've gotten know a Mormon it usually comes up that there limitations on alcohol and caffeine.

 

I think they can have soda just not caffeine. It may be an advised not to thing, but the individual is permitted to have alcohol, but I never met a Mormon who drank alcohol or caffeine.

 

If I bring alcohol to a person's home it is as a gift to the host or to contribute to the party. If I am contributing to the party I would ask the host first before opening. If I am giving a gift I simply give it to the host and let the host decide.

 

When I read the post I envisioned an event where people brought their own booze knowing the host would not have any because she was Mormon. Perhaps she ok'd it. Otherwise, I think it's terrible to do that.

Just to clarify, the LDS (aka "Mormon") restriction is alcohol, coffee and tea. Not necessarily caffeine.

 

Whether or not an LDS person will drink caffeinated soft drinks is a personal thing that has no bearing on church standing. On any given day you might find Coke, Dr Pepper, or Mt Dew in my garage :D. On the other hand my SIL refuses to touch it.

 

I don't have a problem with soft drinks in my home, and I'd even allow coffee for my non-LDS guests (though I don't own a coffee maker, so . . . they might be stuck with hot chocolate or herbal tea :D.). I'd probably draw the line at alcohol. My personal preference.

 

And if you (general) have an LDS friend, just ask. We don't mind people clarifying. :). And if you've given coffee or wine as gifts to an LDS person in the past, don't stress. It's happened to me. I thank the person graciously and pass it along to someone who will use it :)

[Murphy101]

I have no idea why people think Christians don't drink and don't serve alcohol at events. Jesus didn't seem to mind serving it at his events. At least one Christian religion serves alcohol every Sunday. Sometimes twice! (Yes, I'm Roman Catholic! ;) )

 

I wouldn't be bothered if anywhere I went didn't serve alcohol.

 

However, I do think a nice wine really complements a great dinner, so if it were a fancy shmancy dinner, I would find it odd that alcohol was not served and might be slightly disappointed in that count.

 

I like the coffee with breakfast analogy.

 

I've been to lots of Christian events that served alcohol.

[Barb_]

I would be a little taken aback by the absence of alcohol-- but to the same degree that I would be disappointed if there were no coffee. Perhaps less so. :)

But to complain about it publicly, especially when volunteers have put a lot of work into the event, that is just plain rude.

 

Yeah, I think your post nails it.  The issue really isn't whether people would be disappointed, but whether they would be rude enough to say so. And yes, complaining about any part of an event not matching your preferences is just plain bad manners.

[WishboneDawn]

I would expect it to be alcohol free if hosted by a Christian organization.

Your not Anglican, Episcopalian, or Catholic, are you? :D

[WishboneDawn]

Dp

[PeachyDoodle]

Your not Anglican, Episcopalian, or Catholic, are you? :D

 

Lol. I was raised Methodist and by (as I mentioned before) a non-drinking family. When I was in my early 20's I went to work for an Episcopal church. I was the youngest person on staff by close to 20 years. It was about a week before Christmas, and they graciously invited dh and me to the staff Christmas party just a few days after I started work. We were told to bring an appetizer and a drink.

 

Yeah, our little tin of fudge and 2-liter Pepsi looked kind of odd on the table next to the baked brie and bottles of fancy wine... :blushing:

 

[Joanne]

Exactly. I grew up in a Catholic family. Church events included alcohol.

Adrian (x dh) came from a traditional, southern, Texan Baptist background. We eventually landed in a contemporary style but theologically conservative Lutheran church. Many of their small group events met in bars and pubs and eating places known for drinking. He was flabbergasted for months.

 

He should have been desensitized: a female Pastor performed our marriage. ;)

[sassenach]

It would be my expectation that a Christian even would not involve alcohol.  Not because alcohol is prohibited, but rather because it seems more loving to err on the side of not serving it in those venues.  I'm surprised that anyone would complain about a fundraising event.  It seems kind of lame.

[Murphy101]

I see nothing loving about not serving alcohol.

 

Drink or not.

 

Alcohol is not love or lack of it.

[zoobie]

Your not Anglican, Episcopalian, or Catholic, are you? :D

You mean Whiskeypalian? ;)

[PeachyDoodle]

I see nothing loving about not serving alcohol.

 

Drink or not.

 

Alcohol is not love or lack of it.

 

I think perhaps she was referring to 1 Cor. 9, which talks about not using our freedom in Christ to cause less mature believers to stumble. I.e., those who see that there is really no biblical prohibition against drinking choosing to voluntarily abstain from in order not to upset those who are less mature in their faith.

 

[momma2three]

Honestly, I think my surprise would depend on how much the tickets cost.  Over a certain amount (maybe $80 a ticket?) I would expect it to be basically a fancy dinner, and that does involve wine and/or some sort of bar, even if you have to pay for your drinks.  Over $150 a ticket, and I would expect a bottle or two on each table.

[Murphy101]

I think perhaps she was referring to 1 Cor. 9, which talks about not using our freedom in Christ to cause less mature believers to stumble. I.e., those who see that there is really no biblical prohibition against drinking choosing to voluntarily abstain from in order not to upset those who are less mature in their faith.

 

Alcohol is also not a question of mature faith vs immature faith.

[Seasider]

I see nothing loving about not serving alcohol.

 

Drink or not.

 

Alcohol is not love or lack of it.

By "loving" I'm sure was meant the choice to not serve alcohol in deference to those whose religious practices prohibit it. That would include some Christian denominations and individual Christians (anyone, for that matter) personally convicted about not drinking. Considering that this is an ecumenical Christian gathering, not strictly an alcohol permitting denominational gathering.

 

Romans 14 speaks to both sides of this issue.

 

http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/4514.htm

[zoobie]

Honestly, I think my surprise would depend on how much the tickets cost. Over a certain amount (maybe $80 a ticket?) I would expect it to be basically a fancy dinner, and that does involve wine and/or some sort of bar, even if you have to pay for your drinks. Over $150 a ticket, and I would expect a bottle or two on each table.

Yes, I'd disclose clearly what is included with the tickets if there normally would be alcohol served at the event in that sect. Hors d'oeuvres, salad, choice of 3 entrees, dessert, and a selection of teas, sodas, and coffee. You're making it obvious by omission if normally it would list "2 drink tickets included" or "cash bar."

[PeachyDoodle]

Alcohol is also not a question of mature faith vs immature faith.

 

Sure it is. You and I may agree (even though I don't drink) that consuming alcohol is not prohibited by scripture, although drunkenness is. Someone less mature in their faith (and therefore less secure in their freedom in Christ) may believe that it is best for Christians to abstain from alcohol completely in order to avoid over-indulging and potentially becoming drunk. Many Protestant denominations/leaders have taught this -- John Wesley comes to mind. There are also other reasons why drinking might violate someone's conscience -- being a recovering alcoholic, for example. Even though I certainly have the freedom, according to scripture, to enjoy a drink in moderation, if I know myself to be in the company of someone for whom drinking is a violation of conscience, it would be loving of me to voluntarily curtail my freedom out of respect for my brother or sister.

 

In 1 Cor. 9, the situation was eating meat sacrified to idols. Paul said that, even though it was okay to eat the meat -- because it was, after all, just a piece of meat -- it would be more loving to refrain from eating it if one were dining with someone for whom eating the meat was a violation of conscience.

 

I don't feel like I explained that very well. Perhaps someone else can do a better job.

[zoobie]

Alcohol is also not a question of mature faith vs immature faith.

Maybe it would prevent gossiping or an interfaith rumble--you're not a real Christian! I saw you drink beer at the auction! ;)

[Murphy101]

Which again has nothing to do with anything.

 

Even in your link the reference is to not judging them for refusing it (which is a far cry from not offering it at all) and not getting into a debate with them about it (which again is a far cry from not doing it at all).

 

One can serve wine without debating it demanding that other people partake of it or explain why they don't.

[Seasider]

Alcohol is also not a question of mature faith vs immature faith.

I submit that refraining from alcohol is, for some, indeed the mark of a mature faith.

 

For others, it could be the choice to refrain from some other object or activity, if one knows from experience that it leads her to a bad place. I think it's not correct to make such a blanket statement.

 

For the record, I am not a teetotaler, and don't believe that believers in general are commanded to be perfectly abstinent. However, I know many who are, with good reason, and I would turn down any offer of wine with dinner that might put such a friend in a compromised position.

[Murphy101]

But a weakness or addiction had nothing to do with immature faith.

 

One can be devout and still have weaknesses and addictions and what all else problems. It is not a question of mature/strong/informed faith.

[Mbelle]

  No.

 

I do drink, sometimes a bit too much!  But, I have a great time if alcohol is not served.   I grew up with almost all social events without alcohol.  Either way is fine.  

[Cindy in FL.]

It would not bother me either way.

[Paige]

I wouldn't bring coffee, tea or cola to a Mormon friend's house either. I'd go and enjoy her company and abstain from those things during the few hours I was there. It's not that hard. If I was desperate I'd drink my caffeine before I went.

I am a slow, slow drinker and frequently bring whatever drink I have in the car into friends' homes for playdates and such. It never crossed my mind if it was rude. It feels like a waste to throw it away. I don't know if any of my friends are Mormon or not. Should I ask? Would they tell me? I mean, people may mention they go to church, but I wouldn't ask their denomination- seems kind of rude to ask if the info is not offered.

 

As for the social event- I wouldn't even notice the alcohol wasn't available. I'll participate in a toast if it is offered or served with the meal, but I wouldn't miss it if it wasn't available.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I am a slow, slow drinker and frequently bring whatever drink I have in the car into friends' homes for playdates and such. It never crossed my mind if it was rude. It feels like a waste to throw it away. I don't know if any of my friends are Mormon or not. Should I ask? Would they tell me? I mean, people may mention they go to church, but I wouldn't ask their denomination- seems kind of rude to ask if the info is not offered.

 

As for the social event- I wouldn't even notice the alcohol wasn't available. I'll participate in a toast if it is offered or served with the meal, but I wouldn't miss it if it wasn't available.

You bring open containers of alcohol around with you in the car?  There are laws against that. . .