I'm tired of being "poor" (JAWM)

[shinyhappypeople]

Thanks for the kind encouragement.  It feels so good knowing I'm not alone in this boat.   :)

 

I think I need to make a gratitude list.  You know, "count your blessings, name them one by one..."  I mean, at least we CAN (sort of) afford extras for the girls.  It's hard, but do-able.

 

I find that I'm more content when I don't watch commercials, actively ignore the "normalcy" of certain technologies (iphone, etc.) and just enjoy our life as it is.  Great husband, healthy kids, decent house (needs work, but it keeps us out of the rain), safe neighborhood, DH has a job, both our (old, paid for) cars are running okay, we have a few "extras" that make life nicer (high speed internet, netflix).  When I look at it that way, I realize that I am BLESSED.

 

I think what I dislike so much is feeling like we're walking a financial tightrope.  No mistakes, no mis-steps, or disaster will strike.  

 

And, it really bugs me that everyone assumes that I have a smartphone.  And, when I ask directions I've gotten stunned confusion and people asking what's wrong with our GPS.  (Um, I'm not sure GPS existed the years our cars were made.)  

 

My friends are good people, and most of them aren't financially well-off (though they definitely earn more than we do), but almost every one of them home schools through a charter that gives big bucks for extracurricular stuff.  

 

We just left the charter last spring (the academic and emotional costs were way too high). I don't regret that decision at all, but it has made things a little weird between me and a few of my friends.  I think mostly out of habit, they expect me to still be living beyond my means (using charter funds) in terms of signing my kids up for stuff.  Does that make sense?  Many of them think our decision to leave was crazy, b/c of the money thing.  They just don't understand that some decisions aren't made based on dollars and cents.  Sometimes the best decision isn't always the easiest one.  

 

We've chosen this road.  We've chosen to have me stay home and homeschool rather than work for pay.  We've chosen to homeschool independently rather than through the public school system.  Somehow, reminding myself that these are choices makes me feel less helpless.

 

 

[Twigs]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[lewelma]

I'm not poor, but I have poor friends.  I try very hard to suggest fun activities that they can afford.  "hey, let's go to the beach.  You bring the thermos of coffee, and I'll bring the snacks."  I don't suggest the art exhibit or the climbing wall.  I want to have fun *with* them in a way that is fun for both of us.  I do *not* want to make them feel uncomfortable.

 

Where are your friends like me?  I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but really, it is not hard to understand other's circumstances and adapt to them.

 

Ruth in NZ

[kiwik]

Funny. I grumped at someone about this today. To me what really sucks is wondering if I can get away with sending my kids to school with mild fevers by dosing them first because a I can't really afford to take another day off. Or knowing I will just somehow have to make school work because I have to work. Knowing it will be really hard if not impossible to get them into the extension they need. Praying the car won't fail the WOF and making medical decisions on financial grounds. But I do live in a country with very good support in most ways and I wouldn't swap my kids for anything. I have a lot to be grateful for but some days it is really hard. Luckily most of my friends are no better off and the one who is wasn't always - it is just aquaintances.

[NASDAQ]

First -- all those things sound like a lot of money, and I think we do just fine, thank-you-very-much. But come on; $120 on a team jacket? Does your child own any clothes that cost $120? Mine don't.

 

I find the same thing except with time. Most of our local home school families are smaller than ours, so they aren't thinking everything-times-four. Get out to the other side of the city, in the rain, at seven in the morning, for $15 a head? Well it's a good idea and all, but I just don't like it enough to do up four carseats for.

[kiwik]

Nothing that costs $120 no. Last year our school trustees tried to convince us a school uniform would save money. My kids don't have $30 pairs of shorts or $45 polar fleeces either. Of course if you buy designer stuff or always pay full price at the more expensive places it may be cheaper. For those of us who use a combination of hand-me-downs and stuff bought on sale it most certainly isn't.

[Joyofsixreboot]

Us too. Everyone is fed, clothed and healthy and I thank God for it. I just hate that we're the " poor" ones. I don't mind the kids don't have team shirts or pics or we take our own food to the zoo field trip. I mind the whispers about it. But on we trudge, yeah?

[Melissa in Australia]

I know your pain! we have been living  years  way below the poverty line.

I referee basketball just so my children can play as my referee pay covers their court fee and part of the petrol to get to town. I hate sport and cannot even catch a ball!

 

The kids don't even ask about extra curricular activities as they know the answer will be no we cannot afford it.

[DawnM]

We had some very lean years.  Because of that, the boys have learned that we have to find activities that are completely affordable.   So, no $100 per child piano lessons.   If you want to learn piano, google some lessons online (they are doing this right now.)   We will talk about some lessons if you wish to pursue it further and have a passion for it.

 

Boyscouts: $24/year

Robotics: $50/year 

HS group: $18/year membership

 

Middle son has asked to play basketball.  Our church has a league that goes up to 8th grade, $95 for 15 weeks.  Not too bad and we can make it work. Much better than the $350 league down the street.

 

We can actually afford a bit more now, but we still live fairly frugally.   I don't mind spending money necessarily, but I don't like wasting it or spending it when it isn't necessary.

 

Dawn

[Lizzie in Ma]

:grouphug: :grouphug: I hear you.

[Mandylubug]

:grouphug:  I hear ya. We are there. We have actually been 300-400 short of our bills each month with DH's salary for going on 3 years. We knew that coming out of the military and yet DH still was determined for me homeschool our kids. He chooses to work overtime to make our bills and to provide for any extras. Sometimes even a $20 outing is way too much for us and I do feel like the odd one out when I have to say "no, I can't afford that for all four kids" I feel like some times the kids are punished for having so many siblings. I had two kids really take to gymnastics. Their coaches were begging us to continue on with training team and competitive team for them. We allowed the boys to be on training team and they FLOURISHED and were really good. Actually, they were the first to be invited to team on their training team. The coaches looked at me like I was insane when I said thanks but no thanks. I can't afford 3500 a year x 4 kids AND if one child is given that opportunity, we feel compelled to allow all children that same opportunity. If it wasn't gymnastics, it would be put toward another sports or art or music course, etc.. And, well, when your husband is working overtime just to feed us, anything extra isn't truly an option. Next week, DH gets a pay raise and while I am super excited because it will officially cover all our bills without requiring overtime; it still doesn't give us breathing room for extras. 

[Cinder]

spammer reported

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

I am thinking a lot of you need new friends.

 

 

No, the moms I cite look right through me.

[Scarlett]

No, the moms I cite look right through me.

I am mulling over the benefit of participating in group activities with people who look right through you.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

I am mulling over the benefit of participating in group activities with people who look right through you.

 

 

I wouldn't pull DD out of a studio she's loved since she was 2 just because the parent clientele is not always welcoming.

 

Women have gone through the same old-boy BS in the workplace, but are cheered if they stick it out.  Parents come and go, but I know what I'm doing is right.  

[shinyhappypeople]

 

Which leaves me to wonder....when she looks back on her life, which would have meant more. This amazing 15th birthday party or the lack of status quo with a smart phone in school. I don't think there is right answer, but the fact that there has to be a choice made and that she can't have a sleepover AND a phone like her friends, bothers me more than it should. I know it isn't the same as choosing a food budget, but since I work so hard to have her in a private school, sometimes it feels like the our financial situation is so far from from the wealthy families that are there.

 

You nailed it right here.  

 

 

I'm not even sure how to respond beyond that, but just... YES.  

[trinchick]

I grew up fairly poor. My mom was widowed. We lived in an affluent community, and I know my mom sacrificed to give me everything she could, but I still often felt like all the other kids had more. I went to a small private college (on scholarship), and again I was always aware of the difference between me and my wealthier classmates.

 

Now my DH and I are quite comfortable, thank goodness. We're not rich by any means, but we can definitely afford many of the "extras" like activities for the kids and whatnot. However, I find myself saying no to so many of them. No, DD can't have the rhinestone-studded dance team track suit for $150 (seriously?!). No,we're not springing for horseback riding lessons and all of the fees, equipment, etc. No, DD won't be the top seller of the school wrapping paper fundraiser at $8 a roll. No, DD won't get an Ipad just because her friends have them. No, DD will not get Uggs or a North Face jacket just because her classmates have them.

 

The sad thing is, I know my mother would have scraped and scrimped and sacrificed  to try to give me many of these things, and she would have felt terrible if she couldn't. Why is it that when we can't have something it only makes us want it more? It is so much easier to say no (without feeling deprived) when we can choose to as opposed to when we have to. It makes me feel awful for having asked my mom for more than she could easily give.

 

ETA: Being able to financially afford some of the extras often comes at a huge cost of time. DH and I both work (him full time, plus a second job during summer; me 32 hours/week). Sometimes I have to say no to activities for DD simply because we cannot transport her to them. Girl Scouts meet after school, so she cannot participate as I can't get out of work early to pick her up. She has been invited to join the school's spelling bee team which meets after school for practice. Again, cannot swing the pickup. It feels just as bad to say no to those things as I'm sure it does to say no to things due to finances. We all want to give our kids everything we can. 

[DawnM]

Just to address this issue......

 

Most people these days DO have smartphones.  What that means is that most people now have GPS on their phones and don't use the standard GPS things you can buy that you plug into your lighter in the car.

 

So, you can often find a good deal on one used.  I see them at yard sales all the time.

 

Just a thought if you are interested in getting one at some point.

 

Dawn

 

 

And, it really bugs me that everyone assumes that I have a smartphone.  And, when I ask directions I've gotten stunned confusion and people asking what's wrong with our GPS.  (Um, I'm not sure GPS existed the years our cars were made.)  

 

 

 

[DawnM]

There is a lovely word for that.

 

THOIL

 

It means to be able to afford but not justify the cost.

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=thoil

 

Instead of telling people (and yourself) that you can't afford something, just say, "We would rather spend our money on other things."

 

[T'smom]

Us too. Everyone is fed, clothed and healthy and I thank God for it. I just hate that we're the " poor" ones. I don't mind the kids don't have team shirts or pics or we take our own food to the zoo field trip. I mind the whispers about it. But on we trudge, yeah?

People whisper about what you eat at the zoo or if your kid has a team shirt?!?!? I can't imagine using my brain cells to think about other people's lunch choices.

 

I have been the only one without a smart phone and the only one who doesn't have cable TV in a group......but I've never felt people were whispering about it or even really giving it much thought.

[elegantlion]

I wouldn't pull DD out of a studio she's loved since she was 2 just because the parent clientele is not always welcoming.

 

Women have gone through the same old-boy BS in the workplace, but are cheered if they stick it out.  Parents come and go, but I know what I'm doing is right.  

 

I, for one, would be thrilled to see a lone dad at an activity, and to sit and chat. I'm one of those women that finds it easier to converse with men vs. women. I'm sorry you're dealing with being ignored. 

[Scarlett]

I wouldn't pull DD out of a studio she's loved since she was 2 just because the parent clientele is not always welcoming.

 

Women have gone through the same old-boy BS in the workplace, but are cheered if they stick it out. Parents come and go, but I know what I'm doing is right.

If your dd is happy and you can afford it, then sure ignore the unwelcoming parents.

 

An unwelcoming workplace? If I needed the job and couldn't find another I am sure I would stick it out. But not just to prove a point.

[lea_lpz]

Because of time and money I have cut back on extra curriculars. It's too stressful for me to be gone every afternoon and to try to squeeze school into 3 days a week so we can do the co-ops, etc.

This year we've been fortunate. I volunteer for AWANA and so we didn't have to pay registration and we got a donated uniform for AHG so I don't see that coming out to more than $100 dollars, maybe less with fundraising. Last year we paid $45 dollars.

My kids are taking a 1x a week 3 hour riding lesson. We are part of a charter homeschool program so dd's is free and the instructor is charging me only $25 a lesson for my son since he isn't school age yet (4). Amazing deal. Can still actually be a struggle but we've been pulling it off.

We actually are in a situation right now were we have a enough of the charter school stripened to be able to enroll dd in more, but with me in school part time, and pregnant, one morning co-op a week and 2 after school activities a week (which I am volunteer in) is all I can handle juggling. And that's really pushing it for me right now.  I often wonder if we should drop something, but my kids really love these things

They get it though. They've mentioned stuff like they'd like to get piano lessons, or join gymnastics and dance again, but we don't have the time.  My dd actually ran into her old gymnastics instructor and actually told her, I'd love to do gymnastics again but don't have enough time with my horseback riding lessons, AWANA, and AHG."  

Last year we had something basically everyday and they were totally burned out.

[lea_lpz]

Oh, one thing I noticed, at least in my area, so this might not be the case for all, but the homeschool co-ops and groups tend to be very affordable. We live in an affluent area, and we are not. Although some families do have more expandable cash, many are on tight budgets and so I don't feel out of place. With being homeschoolers, usually only one parent is earning a wage and so even if that parent has an excellent job, for most families in this area living on a single income is still tight.

 

In fact, I feel like I see more of a culture of being thrifty and resourceful among homeschoolers in general.

 

A d everyone brings their own brown bagged lunches to park day and field trips :)

[Scarlett]

It is important to not feel sorry for ourselves or our children. We are either homeschooling or we have homeschooled and that takes a serious commitment that is more valuable than a smartphone.

 

Oh and stay away from people who make you feel bad.

[Joyofsixreboot]

People whisper about what you eat at the zoo or if your kid has a team shirt?!?!? I can't imagine using my brain cells to think about other people's lunch choices.

 

I have been the only one without a smart phone and the only one who doesn't have cable TV in a group......but I've never felt people were whispering about it or even really giving it much thought.

Yes, truly.  The zoo thing I got lots of "oh, it'll keep, come buy food stuff at the stand with us."  They were so insistent it became a topic of conversation.  The team shirt, well, you never hear good at keyholes as they say.

[laughing lioness]

Just read a post by a FB friend today whose dh easily makes $180k and who was a mortgage broker- working the system- but bailed right before it went south, bragging about how Dave ramsey "saved thier lives" and they are now almost debt free  and they are "proud" to never cheat the church on their tithe no matter how "tight" things are financially  and on and on. 

Knowing her personally, and how she was willingly worked a corrupt system for financial gain, and how she throws the church in there  makes me want to write mean, ugly things on her page. But I didn't.

 

And yea, dh finished quarterlies for last year (he filed an extension) and what he makes (good $)  and how we live (gestapo budget), really made my head spin for several days.

 

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

I, for one, would be thrilled to see a lone dad at an activity, and to sit and chat. I'm one of those women that finds it easier to converse with men vs. women. I'm sorry you're dealing with being ignored. 

 

I also feel it's easier to converse with HSmoms, at least in part because we're doing the same job, seeing the same things, encountering the same challenges, and have the same basic goals for doing what we do.

 

Among fulltime dads, there is a weird schism between those who do it by choice for the long haul, and those for whom it's a brief job change.   There are plenty of guys home it in this area, but they all disappear when they're kids enter school, so the group is perpetually pre-K.

 

I doubt that I'm part of some secret forthcoming revolution on any sort of scale.

[TravelingChris]

I am trying to think whether any of our children got a piece of clothing that cost 120 or more. We are not in the same income bracket that you are but much higher.    But I don't think so - not even when I was buying my dd suits, most of which I got through thrift shops but at least two I bought in stores.  Not even when I got them new Ralph Lauren dresses.  Not even their expensive hiking boots or my son's special shoes he needs because he is on his feet all day and has high arches.  Not their heavy winter jackets.  So- I wouldn't be interested in buying a 120 team jacket, either.  Dh and I have but rarely even for us.  For me, it was winter coats and at least one ball gown.  For dh, I think his suits cost more that that though probably his blazers did not.  He also has a nice wool coat and that may have cost more and certainly his military uniforms cost a lot too.

My kids, two of whom are now adults, have learned to shop sales and shop used.  It helps them now that they are low income. 

 

With your further clarifications, I can now understand how this is happening more.  The usual junk that teens put pressure on- clothing, electronics, etc- are not what normally adults pressure people on.  However, with so many friends of yours being from a ISP which gives money to use and that you used to have that too, I can understand the conflict more.  I suspect that some of those moms see the same problems in the ISP that you did but want to justify it in their minds by emphasizing the monetary benefits that allow their kids all kinds of stuff.

[HRAAB]

I'm not poor.  I have a decent, older home, two older cars that run, decent food to put on the table and clean water.  We get our utilities paid.  When left alone in my own little world, I feel very blessed.  It's when I step out of my world into the larger homeschooling community that I begin to feel poor.  No, my girls are not involved in several activities.  In fact, right now there aren't any extra activities since they decided to leave Girl Scouts.  No, they don't go on whatever educational camps over the summer.  They don't have smart phones or dumb phones.  When my 16 yr old needs a phone, she borrows her dad's Tracfone.  She didn't get a new dress for homecoming dance (borrowed an older sister's) and she didn't get her make up and hair done at the mall, either.  It's times like that that make me 'feel' poor.

 

Talking about the zoo.  Last field trip to the zoo it cost me $35 to get us inside, forget buying food there.  That by itself would have been okay, but then there was the field trip to the art museum, the trip to the mountain hot springs resort, oh and don't forget the day at the water park for $145.  Those are all very fun summer activities, but we have to pick and choose, and the water park is OUT.  If it's $35 to get into the zoo, then I can't spend another $20 to buy food there.  Yet these other families are taking their kids on all these outings, and we're not talking 1 or 2 kids either.

 

The latest things I've been asked is how many colleges will my dd be visiting this year?  I'm saving my money and planning to visit a couple in state and one out of state where we can stay with family - all within one day's drive.

 

I know my kids will be okay - my older two survived fine and are quite well adjusted young adults - but I still feel guilt at times, especially when my kids seem to miss out on so many things their friends are doing.  That's when I need to retreat back to my safe space and take a good look at how fortunate we really are and remind myself to not be so impacted by what others are doing.

[Χά�ων]

I hear you.

[jennynd]

 

 

ETA: Being able to financially afford some of the extras often comes at a huge cost of time. DH and I both work (him full time, plus a second job during summer; me 32 hours/week). Sometimes I have to say no to activities for DD simply because we cannot transport her to them. Girl Scouts meet after school, so she cannot participate as I can't get out of work early to pick her up. She has been invited to join the school's spelling bee team which meets after school for practice. Again, cannot swing the pickup. It feels just as bad to say no to those things as I'm sure it does to say no to things due to finances. We all want to give our kids everything we can. 

 

we are in the same boat. Both Hubby and I have good jobs and we are thankful for that. But we often find it hard to cover both kids activities. I get up 5:00AM in the morning so I can at my work by 6AM and leave by 3:30 so I can pick my kids so we can do stuff. But when deadlines approaching at work and there are times I have to call places last minute to tell them that we can not make it..

It stinks. There is always trade offs in life. I supposed. You gain something and you lose something

 

 

[T'smom]

Yes, truly. The zoo thing I got lots of "oh, it'll keep, come buy food stuff at the stand with us." They were so insistent it became a topic of conversation. The team shirt, well, you never hear good at keyholes as they say.

I'm sorry that this has been your experience. There are lots of people not like this. I would suggest trying to find another group to go to the zoo with. Personally, we're kindof in the middle. I have friends that are much better off and I have friends that are much worse off. I don't really feel pressure from those with more money and I try to be sensitive to those worse off.

 

Honestly, if I was at the zoo with a group of people, one of whom brought lunch, it would not even occur to me that it was an economic thing. I would think it was a health thing or an organizational thing. In all probability, I would buy our food, sit down next to the mom that packed lunch and say sincerely "I wish I was as organized as you. I couldn't get it together well enough this morning to pack a lunch" (I actually had this convo with someone from a homeschool group that we went to the fair with) it was true. I was considering it a success that we managed to leave the house. She not only had packed lunches and snacks, but was completely prepared for every eventuality. I was flying by the seat of my pants. On the other hand, at bible study, I'm the only one without a smart phone. It has been awkward a couple times when everyone is looking things up on their phones, but no one has EVER made a negative comment toward me.

 

I wish you could come join our group. We have lots of fun and no one is catty.

[idnib]

Honestly, if I was at the zoo with a group of people, one of whom brought lunch, it would not even occur to me that it was an economic thing. I would think it was a health thing or an organizational thing. 

 

I agree. Budget would not be the first thing that came to mind. So many people have specific ways of eating I would think it was dietary. Vegan, vegetarian, gluten free, nut free, dairy free, low carb, keto, paleo, no beef, etc.

[LibraryLover]

(((Your kids are fine. :) )))

[Jane in NC]

Let me first note that we are not poor.  But I have been so I "get it".

 

That said, I would like to have a brief rant on the cost of organized children's sports.  Our community runs an inexpensive recreational soccer program.  The coaches are volunteers, the refs are teenagers who are paid.  My husband volunteered for years with the administration of the league.  This helped keep costs down.

 

At some point the boys aged out of the community program so they were bumped to a larger program connected with a nearby city.  The cost tripled in part because this league had paid staff that did the organization.  Maybe that is reasonable once a program reaches a certain size.

 

But this did not satisfy some parents who were convinced that their kids needed to be on travel teams.  I'm sorry folks but most of our kids do not go on to become professional athletes nor do they earn college scholarships.  I cannot tell you though how many times I heard parents of twelve or thirteen year olds salivating at the thought of their kid's future athletic achievements.  Frankly I think they are being sold a fraudulent bill of goods.

 

I have yet to be convinced that ten year olds playing ice hockey need sticks that sell for hundreds of dollars, for example.  I think the focus of sports for kids should be fitness and safety. 

 

One of my son's friends is a good golfer.  She quit the high school team because of the pressure she felt to own the latest I-things, trendy clothing, etc.  Golfing should be about golfing--not whether one's wardrobe comes from the "right" store.

 

Sorry folks--had to rant.  I think some of you will understand.

 

And my heart goes out to those of you who are having a hard time.

 

Jane

[trinchick]

 I'm sorry folks but most of our kids do not go on to become professional athletes nor do they earn college scholarships.  I cannot tell you though how many times I heard parents of twelve or thirteen year olds salivating at the thought of their kid's future athletic achievements.  Frankly I think they are being sold a fraudulent bill of goods.

 

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

The same is true for the competitive students at DD's dancing school. They invest several thousands of dollars per year in their 10-12 yo's dance lessons ($300+/month), costumes ($70 each x 8 or more), competitions ($1,000+ entrance fees/year), gear (huge rolling wardrobes and makeup boxes, shoes), etc.

 

Unless your kid is going to grow up to be a Rockette or something, it hardly seems worth it. I know there are some dance families on this board where the children have gone on to be professionals, but I'm sure they're the exception and not the rule.

[FaithManor]

Jane, I couldn't agree with you more. My own cousin's son is a shining example of this. His parents, on the urging of coaches who saw him play when he was quite little, I'm talking 6-8 years of age, convinced them he needed to A. attend an expensive private school in the area because the local PS did not have a soccer program and B. needed to begin traveling leagues early. My cousin worked over time for this since they'd told him the boy would be so good he'd be guaranteed college scholarships. So, he gave up family time to work the extra for this. His wife took on after school care students in addition to her part-time job as an assistant librarian. They lived penny to penny to afford it all. They never put a dime away for retirement because their boy was going to get to go to college on a sports scholarship, and college was something they had always wanted themselves, but were unable to afford when they got out of high school. Let me tell you, the talking bobble-heads made it sound good, and they bought it hook, line, and sinker.

 

To be fair, Curtis was AMAZING! I am not kidding you when I say that he had moves that were college class if not world class. We once had a visitor here from Bolivia, a guy who had recently retired from their professional soccer team, and Curtis KEPT PACE WITH THIS GUY who had played world cup soccer for a couple of years before choosing a career that kept him at home with his family. So, I should say that I honestly thought he'd get scholarships. I really didn't imagine he wouldn't. He literally was that good.

 

He applied to some pretty big name schools, his dream school, and a couple of safeties where he'd be the top dog on the team, but the team wouldn't probably do all that much. He got a single scholarship - about 40% of the total bill - to one safety. He was admitted to the other schools and offered spots on their teams, but no sports scholarships. On top of that, he accepted the safety, got a few lower academic scholarships which gave him another 20% of the bill, and borrowed the other 40%. After one year, they cut their sports scholarship program due to the economy and he had NO soccer scholarship. He couldn't afford to stay in school.

 

Frankly, the money his parents put into his soccer program and private school tuition - a school that was definitely decent, but in the grand scheme of things not so competitive academically that their graduates were really raking in significant merit aid -  fi they had saved it could have put him through college. He wanted to be a pediatric nurse and would have been an absolutely excellent one too! Now, he has student loan payments from that first year while he tries to find a school he can work his way through part-time.

 

It's a cautionary tale. Do kids get sports scholarships? Yes, but in my experience, it seems that these are extremely, selectively given such that amazing players are routinely NOT getting them. On top of which, I do believe that there are definitely coaches out there that in order to boost their own income from private coaching will out and out lie about the availability of the money and what it takes to get it. DD's best friend had a $100.00 an hour pitching coach who talked up the scholarship game big time to her folks. Fortunately, she was smart enough to not put all her eggs in that basket and made sure she had an excellent ACT scorer plus graduated in the top 10% of her class, plus a good load of college prep classes, and other extra-curriculars so she could get merit aid. She attended school on a president's scholarship - 75% of tuition, room, and board and they wanted her desperately on their women's softball team  (she's a left handed pitcher with a mean and VERY accurate fastball...her strike out and no hitter stats were very impressive (traveling league, etc.) - but they never offered to pony up the other 25% so she chose not to play.

 

It's like that with many extra-curriculars. I had to go to Interlochen on scholarships since my parents couldn't afford it, and the competitions to get that money were brutal. I was treated like crap by the monied kids. Looking back, while I received some instruction that may have helped me prepare for college auditions, the reality is I can't say with any confidence that it was enough to warrant the price tag and especially if my parents had had to work to the bone or borrow the money to make it happen. I'd certainly be careful now. Tuition last summer was $7000.00 +! One might be better off investing that money. Music scholarships are a total crap shoot. You could be the most talented player in the entire field and not get a dime because what they really needed was a harpist for the orchestra and you are a violinist. I've set on scholarship committees before and let me tell you, rounding out the orchestra, the band, the number of people majoring in one instrument over another, getting a specific tenor for the choir, etc. trumps the realities of who "deserves" the scholarship all.the.time. We've even seen the college completely over-ride our decisions. I gave up the role because I was never confident - in this case a smaller regional uni since I'm not qualified to sit on the committee for say U of Michigan, or Cincinnati or some other big name - that it was worth my time to actually judge these kids on their individual merits.

 

For what it's worth everyone, 4-H is ten dollars per year with many of the projects underwritten by scholarships from your local 4-H council fundraisers. Not every club is agricultural. In our county, we have STEM (dh and I run that one), Culinary Arts, Fine Arts, Crafts, Quilting, Apparel Sewing, Woodworking, Archery (with equipment to use for free - just a small annual deposit against loss or damage and that's refunded if you return it in decent shape), horticulture, and winter sports (again, with equipment provided). If you would like your children to have a wholesome extra-curricular at super low cost, this is one way to go. If you are low income, many counties will waive the $10.00 membership fee too!

 

Faith

 

 

[Leav97]

I get it.  We do OK but, this year has been full of major car repairs killing the budget.  I work 50-70 hours a week.  DH stays home with the kids and watches 2 extras.  They can't go places because dragging 5 kids 4 and under anywhere is a pain.

 

There are so many things I know the kids would love to do but there is only so much time and money.

[Jane in NC]

Jane, I couldn't agree with you more. My own cousin's son is a shining example of this. His parents, on the urging of coaches who saw him play when he was quite little, I'm talking 6-8 years of age, convinced them he needed to A. attend an expensive private school in the area because the local PS did not have a soccer program and B. needed to begin traveling leagues early. My cousin worked over time for this since they'd told him the boy would be so good he'd be guaranteed college scholarships. So, he gave up family time to work the extra for this. His wife took on after school care students in addition to her part-time job as an assistant librarian. They lived penny to penny to afford it all. They never put a dime away for retirement because their boy was going to get to go to college on a sports scholarship, and college was something they had always wanted themselves, but were unable to afford when they got out of high school. Let me tell you, the talking bobble-heads made it sound good, and they bought it hook, line, and sinker.

 

<snipping for brevity>

 

Two members of my extended family were cultivated by representatives of the sports community.  Both were and continue to be solid athletes. But college teams often need to fill the ranks with certain players.  They don't always know until the season begins what the needs are and who will be best in filling those needs.  One played Division II; the other was asked to play with the team and then was dropped.

 

Interestingly, both of these "kids" as I continue to call them are now parents of toddlers.  Their sport of choice?  Running.  They can run around their work schedules, run with their spouses, push babies in strollers as they run.  It works.  One is a pretty serious runner who plans her vacations around the Boston Marathon, etc.

 

A parent of one of these "kids" recently admitted that all of the travel that was done from age 10 on was a huge money pit.  Every extra penny was poured into the sport.  Who profits from that?  The kid?  Or was it the special coaches, the equipment manufacturers, the hotels? 

 

I will be honest. I paid for some expensive skating lessons for my son not because he had prowess or promise but for the sake of his safety on the ice when he played hockey.  My husband and I thought it was smarter to invest in safety equipment and development of good instincts rather than paying hospital bills.  But we had the money to spare after funding retirement and saving for college.  And we laughed hysterically when someone suggested that he try out for a travel team.  He was not a particularly good player--he just loved playing.  The people with whom he most enjoyed playing hockey were the adults in the rec leagues--not the arrogant teenagers.

 

But to the point...There is no basic membership fee for 4-H where we live.  Some activities have associated fees but here participants can earn "Clover Bucks" to help pay for those activities--maybe even cover the cost completely.  I give sewing lessons through 4-H at no charge.  I think the Junior Master Gardener program is free too.  4-H varies from place to place but I always recommend investigating it.

[Dmmetler]

My biggest frustration is the "optional, but". We've done SO many "low cost" activities that, by the time you added all the "optional" fees ended up being hundreds of dollars by the time they're finished. It's the co-op where there's only a $20 fee per family, but the person leading each week has a list of things they want each child to bring. It's the sports team that has a low registration fee, but then adds a stack of stuff to buy that's optional-if your child is the rare kid who is happy coming to practice but not actually participating in anything involving another team. It's the rec dance class that's cheap, but has $200 of leotards and shoes required for a 4 yr old, and then has another $200 of recital fees, costumes, videos and so on-optional if you've got a child who is fine with practicing the routines but not getting to wear the pretty tutu and dance on stage. It's the low cost activity that requires either a ton of fundraising or a couple of hundred dollar buy-out per child. It's the photos, special t-shirts, special clinics on the weekend, and trips.

 

I only have one child, and it drives ME crazy. I have no clue how the families with multiple kids can do it!

 

 

[catz]

I'm sorry that this has been your experience. There are lots of people not like this. I would suggest trying to find another group to go to the zoo with. Personally, we're kindof in the middle. I have friends that are much better off and I have friends that are much worse off. I don't really feel pressure from those with more money and I try to be sensitive to those worse off.

 

Honestly, if I was at the zoo with a group of people, one of whom brought lunch, it would not even occur to me that it was an economic thing. I would think it was a health thing or an organizational thing. In all probability, I would buy our food, sit down next to the mom that packed lunch and say sincerely "I wish I was as organized as you. I couldn't get it together well enough this morning to pack a lunch" (I actually had this convo with someone from a homeschool group that we went to the fair with) it was true. I was considering it a success that we managed to leave the house. She not only had packed lunches and snacks, but was completely prepared for every eventuality. I was flying by the seat of my pants. On the other hand, at bible study, I'm the only one without a smart phone. It has been awkward a couple times when everyone is looking things up on their phones, but no one has EVER made a negative comment toward me.

 

I wish you could come join our group. We have lots of fun and no one is catty.

My experience is very much like this. We're comfortable certainly and have budgeted for extras. But I also do not have a smart phone. I've never gotten any kind of weird vibe from my richer or poorer friends about judgment. Although I live urban, so there is a really wide spread of economic levels in a very small space.

[TravelingChris]

Queen Goddess of the Deep said "DS wanted to join a team where the coaches and management just could not understand why $600-$800/month was not a reasonable goal for the families to pay in 5 years. They could not understand why families were upset over having to buy mandatory items such as the $200 warm-up outfit, $75 custom bag on top of the $120 jacket, and the $20 shirt. Oh and the families were required to travel out of state every month, sometimes a 1,000 miles away for comps because the local comps were deemed unworthy."

 

I don't know how people pay anything like that   As I said before, we are not poor.  Supposedly, in fact, according to our President, we are rich.  Even if we wanted to, we couldn't afford such an expense as long as we have college aged children who need support and tuition help, which is at least the situation for another six years. Before we had college aged kids, we still never had that kind of money available for one child.  I guess we could have if we decided to forgo vacations, pets, bikes, doing things as a family, etc.  but of course, we never chose to have all of our spare income going to one child for his or her activity.  Not that all their activities even ended up costing that kind of money per month, except for the occasional summer program- most of which cost a lot. lot less.  I mean if you take the $800/month figure, that is 9600 a year. 

 

[happypamama]

A d everyone brings their own brown bagged lunches to park day and field trips :)

This does make a huge difference, when it's just what everyone does, so that you're not the only one.

[LucyStoner]

While I understand avoiding expensive sports, I think there are a great many benefits to youth sports beyond remote college scholarship and professional athletic opportunities. I played softball and dabbled in basketball and some other sports. Not having been a college athlete or in the WNBA is irrelevant to the value of that time and effort and the longer term benefits gleaned from sports. If things are very tight, many families do qualify for a fee waiver if a child still wants to play a sport.

[OnTheBrink]

I understand. My dd wants to go to a music camp next summer that's going to cost $650 a week.  :svengo: When I mentioned this camp to someone who also has a musical child, the mom said, "Only $650! That's CHEAP!" Yeah, I guess it is if your dh makes 6 digits a year.  :glare: 

[Jane in NC]

While I understand avoiding expensive sports, I think there are a great many benefits to youth sports beyond remote college scholarship and professional athletic opportunities. I played softball and dabbled in basketball and some other sports. Not having been a college athlete or in the WNBA is irrelevant to the value of that time and effort and the longer term benefits gleaned from sports. If things are very tight, many families do qualify for a fee waiver if a child still wants to play a sport.

 

Yes indeed there are benefits to youth sports but my earlier rant concerned the ridiculous and unnecessary fees associated with many of them these days.  This starts young with performance trophies, for example.  My son benefitted from recreational soccer at age ten. Did he need to be on a travel team at that age with his parents paying for hotels?  No. One year when we were coaching a First Lego team, a young man was pulled from our group because our meetings interfered with his lessons with a pitching coach. He was twelve years old and wanted to do FLL.  His parents were more concerned about baseball and paid for supplementary skills lessons that conflicted with our meeting time.

 

Other posters mentioned the pressure to buy team jackets.  There are no fee waivers for these.

 

One of my friends signed up her daughter up for a summer swim team.  It was not inexpensive but doable.  At the first practice, she was given her fund raising materials and instructions.  Nothing had been said about this at sign ups. Apparently each participating family was expected to sell a certain amount to help with funding.  Needless to say, my friend pulled her disappointed daughter from the team.

 

My community does a great job in organizing sports that are inexpensive for younger kids. After age 12 though any sport requires a financial investment.

[AimeeM]

 

 

My community does a great job in organizing sports that are inexpensive for younger kids. After age 12 though any sport requires a financial investment.

 

That stinks. Our area has rec sports going through high school, available for about the same rate at all ages; group tennis lessons, ice skating, soccer, little league, etc.

Rec only seems to get expensive when eventually a child "tops out" of what can be taught at regular rec, and then has to make the decision to either stay on regular rec, not learning anything new, or move up to the more competitive leagues, for more money (since they do require more substantial travel, uniforms, etc).

[Scarlett]

My sister spent sooooo much money on her dd's volleyball. My niece got an athletic scholarship, but it wasn't worth it IMO, nor in my sisters. She wishes she had saved that money instead...it was so much stress and money and competition and dealing with sobs....just a big time and energy suck.