WWYD

[Parrothead]

I'm going to delete this later. Please don't quote it.

 

If one reads the responses one can probably read between the lines.

 

 

WWYD?

[T'smom]

What would *I* do? I would make one effort to explain how important it was to me that he quit. I would let him know that I would help him in whatever way I could. I would insist that he not have it around the kids. I mean, I would really plan out my presentation and list out my reasons. I might beg, plead, and cry. And then I would stop and not say another word about it. He is an adult and he does get to make his own choices. Don't force him to hide it from you. You don't want to have secrets between you and if he gets a lecture every time you notice charges on the card or a can left in the car, there will be secrets. If you're a believer, I would pray about it. A lot. But I would do my very best to keep my concerns to one time and then I would not let it interfere with our relationship.

 

Just my two cents.....which is probably more than it's worth.

[MercyA]

I would have a calm, gentle, frank discussion with him about it, one time. And then I would do my best not to say anything more about it.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[goldberry]

Addictions seldom follow a course of logic and don't usually submit to reasoning. I think you have to respect his choice as an adult, although admittedly an extremely poor and potentially self-destructive one. I would be more concerned about him hiding it from you than him actually doing it, as that speaks to your relationship and needs to be addressed.

 

Sorry, from someone who is totally disgusted by all forms of tobacco....

[justasque]

I'm only going to address the money part.

 

I think each person in a marriage needs to have a certain amount of walking around money, if at all possible. Money they can spend on anything they like, without guilt. It could be $2 a week; it could be $200 a week (hey, we can dream, right?). It can be saved for a "big" purchase, or spent on soda at the mall. Whatever the individual wants to do with it. So sit down with him, work out a budget, and make sure it includes WAM. His snuff, sodas, etc. can come out of that. HE gets to decide what he will give up in order to buy what he wants.

[poppy]

I am really impressed with the advice on this thread. It's spot on. I used to smoke, many years ago. DH didn't smoke and didn't like it. He didn't nag me about it, he DID set sound ground rules that I agreed with (like, no smoking in the house). Nagging definitely would not have helped. When I quit, it was because I wanted to, and his support with that helped..

[k10coon]

On this very board a link was given:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Allen-Carrs-Easyway-Stop-Smoking/dp/0615482155/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367609280&sr=8-1&keywords=The+easy+way+to+quit+smoking

 

While the book is about smoking, it is about nicotine addiction specifically. My husband and I both quit three years ago and never looked back. It seems so silly while you're reading it, but it just made sense. The ratings on amazon tell the same story.

 

Good luck! It's not nearly as hard to quit this specific addiction as "they" say it is.

[*Lulu*]

I have been thinking this over and think I can articulate how I would handle it if it were my marriage.

 

First I would separate out the two issues. I would deal with the health issue by very clearly, very calmly and very briefly sharing my concerns both short and long term. I would then leave it alone. Really. It would hurt like heck to bite my tongue that hard, but the reality is most adults know that tabacoo products carry a risk, it is a legal activity, and adults get to chose to participate in legal activities, even risky ones.

 

The second issue is where I would spend my time and energy, the money. We write out a budget each month, so I would take DH to the numbers and have him show me where we can find the funds for this habit. I would make sure that, within reason, we budgeted money for him to use at his discression and an equal amount for me to use at mine. Then I would make sure that he understood that spending more than the agreed upon amount would be viewed by me as a breach of my trust.

 

I would hope and pray for him to handle business on the health issue, but would chose the tangible budgetary issue as the place to make my stand.

[Rosie_0801]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:

[AimeeM]

nm

[Starr]

I know what I would say I'd do but really the first thing I would do is have a fit. :grouphug:

[brehon]

Aaahhh...Glorious Mt Dew....mmmmm

 

Hmmm...*I'd* be more concerned about the sneaking than about the budget. I agree w/a pp - budget a certain amount of "free" money for each of you each pay period.

 

As far as the tobacco use I'd have a chat w/him once and drop it. *I'd* also feel free to establish any necessary ground rules, i.e. not in front of dd, don't let me find containers of spit, etc.

 

One thing I wanted to mention is health insurance premiums. The gov't agency I work for (a county one, not fed) has instituted a prevention plan. Among other things every covered adult must have a yearly blood draw. One of the things tested for is nicotine use. If you don't use tobacco (or if you do, but sign something stating you'll make an effort to stop), your premiums are *substantially* less than if you do use tobacco. I understand from chatting w/colleagues in different systems that this is an up-and-coming trend that more insurance companies are doing. If your insurance plan moves to something like this, I'd have a much more serious talk because an individual habit would then be adversely affecting the family financially.

 

Did I say substantial savings? I meant SUBSTANTIAL difference in premiums.

[TracyP]

I can tell you what I did when faced with almost exactly the same situation. We both quit smoking and two years later dh started chewing behind my back. I told him I was hurt that he hid it from me (I might have cried but this was 8 years ago). I told him that I did not want him chewing around the kids. I told him that I was concerned about his health especially since we had put in the hard work to quit smoking. I reminded him that this would mean reworking the budget, but I wasn't in mood to deal with that at the time. I then told him he was a big boy and it was ultimately up to him. He has taken a dip from a coworker on a couple occasions but otherwise that was the end of it.

[clarkacademy]

I would truly leave him alone because the worse you bug him the more he stresses and there you go. I don't think anything you do is gonna help anything more likely cause hard feelings.

[Amy in NH]

I'm only going to address the money part.

 

I think each person in a marriage needs to have a certain amount of walking around money, if at all possible. Money they can spend on anything they like, without guilt. It could be $2 a week; it could be $200 a week (hey, we can dream, right?). It can be saved for a "big" purchase, or spent on soda at the mall. Whatever the individual wants to do with it. So sit down with him, work out a budget, and make sure it includes WAM. His snuff, sodas, etc. can come out of that. HE gets to decide what he will give up in order to buy what he wants.

 

 

We have a $10/week allowance for adults. If he chooses to spend his on a carcinogenic addictive habit then that's his choice, as unhappy as I am with it. But then he doesn't get to complain that he doesn't have any money to spend on hobbies or tools, etc. He pulls his $10 cash out of the ATM once per week so that he's not tempted to use his card to spend more than his budgeted allowance.

 

We have agreed that he is not to indulge in his bad habit around the children, and so far they don't even know about it.

[Unicorn.]

Honestly, I'd be pissed off that he was hiding it. And he would get an earful, or two, maybe three. But... I would not lecture him or beg him to quit. I would ask him to continue to keep it away from the home and family. But that would be it. Okay, yeah, I would remind him that we were trying to save for something, and ask him what he IS going to give up to help.

[Catwoman]

I would be very angry that he tried to hide it, and that he's spending money he can't afford to spend.

 

I have to disagree with those who said they'd say something once and let it go, or who wouldn't say anything about it.

 

You bet I'd have a lot to say! You're trying so hard to pay off bills and be debt-free and he sneaks around spending money behind your back? Ummm.... NO!!!! Not acceptable. Not at all!

 

Tell him if he wants to kill himself with his addiction, he can get a second job to pay for the stuff.

 

Oh, and as for this (I only quoted a tiny bit -- I hope that's OK!):

 

On the other hand it is his money (as in he works, I don't).

 

It's not HIS money. It's YOUR money as a family. You work, too, all day long. Just because he's the one who earns the paycheck doesn't mean he can do whatever he wants with the money.

[Wildcat]

.

[SunnyDays]

What Cat said. Though I confess calm and understanding aren't the first two words I would choose to describe myself. :D

 

:grouphug: I'm sorry, I'm sure that was hard to find out. I hope the two of you are able to come to an agreement.

[Snow]

Why don't you just talk honestly and supportively with him? Ask him how he feels about starting up again (and then listen). Ask him if he wants to stop. Ask how or if you can help. Why did he feel like he had to hide it? What makes his urges tough to get through? What does he think about how its impacting the budget? Does he still have the same debt free goal as you?

 

Everyone is susceptible to relapse. I'm sure he was hiding it because you were able to quit and he's embarrassed that he failed. And maybe because he didn't want to pull you down with him. I quit smoking 11 years ago and I still have urges sometimes! Guilting him is not helpful.

 

In my marriage, the money is *ours* even though I'm at home. I agree, we each get an allotment to be spent how we choose.

[Donna]

I have gone through this with my own dh. He dips. He was supposed to quit on our wedding day and he didn't. Over the years we've had discussions and arguments...mostly when he hid it which, besides the health risks, was my biggest issue.

 

Dh knows the health risks. An adult would have to live on the moon or at the North Pole all their lives to not know the health risks associated with tobacco use. Someday he may get mouth cancer but someday he may get some other kind of cancer or die of heart disease or be killed in a car accident or any number of things. I came to the conclusion that I am not responsible for his health.

 

I finally asked my dh to please not hide it. I came to the realization he was going to chew whether I liked it or not. He is in control of his own body...he was chewing when we met and fell in love so, who was I to change the "rules." His chewing does not mean he doesn't love me or the kids. As long as it didn't involve secrecy, I no longer got angry about it. I couldn't control his actions but I could control my response to his actions. So, even though I still wish he'd quit, I don't make it an issue any longer and I am happier. I am sure he is happier, too, without me nagging him about it.

 

The money issue is something else entirely. The money was never an issue because we each have a certain amount of "personal money" each week to spend. If it were an issue I would have him sit down with me and look at the budget to see where the money should come from. The family money, no matter who earns it, is a family issue and not something one person should decide on.

[Carol in Cal.]

See if you can get him to switch to nicotine gum. Even if he doesn't quit, at least he will not be risking those nasty chewing cancers, I don't think.

[AngieW in Texas]

Dh quit smoking several times before he managed to do it for more than one year. He has been using nicotine gum for the past 9 years. It's expensive, but I'd rather he use the gum than actually smoke. He is now physically repulsed by cigarettes, but he still can't break the nicotine addiction.

[gardenmom5]

it's not "his" money, it's both your money. you are a team - he may earn the money, but you are running things on the homefront to support him, just as he is supporting you.

 

you may not be able to get him to quit an addition for the addictions sake, or health sake (let him know you're taking out a hefty life-insurance policy on him - one that doens't exclude tobacco products ;p), etc., but maybe he'll respond to how much it costs. he has to pay cold hard cash and post the recipts where he sees it all the time.

 

I still smile at how one woman broke her addition to cigarretts. she put the money she didn't spend on a pack in a jar. when she no longer craved them, she bought herself a pair of diamond earrings because that's how much she "didn't" spend on nicotine.

[StephanieZ]

He is a grown man.

 

Additionally, he had this habit when you met (and fell in love) with him.

 

Additionally, you also had a habit when you met him.

 

He knows how you feel. He is keeping it out of your sight and out of the kids' sight. That is great. For you guys, and also for his health (via minimizing use).

 

He knows it is terrible for him. He'll get plenty of reminders via PSAs, news stories, etc.

 

I'd count your blessings, and I'd let it go. Don't be a nag. I'd look the other way on the $$, except by negotiating the budget category. You'll need to budget this in, I am afraid. Take the extra month(s) to pay off the debt. Meanwhile, take an equal amount of "fun money" to splurge on something you want. Maybe just setting "fun money" or "blow money" allowances for each of you will encourage him subtly to reduce/end his use since he'll use much/all of it on the expensive bad habit. I'd set the blow money accounts to be maybe $5-10/wk (separate! for each of you!) over what he is currently spending on tobacco. That way you aren't trying to control it, but he will "feel" it. Since you are "feeling" the amount he is currently spending, presumably this might work. Meanwhile, you can save your $$ and get something you really want.

 

If and when your dh wants to quit again, then you can encourage him, praise him, "hurrah" him, be patient with his crankiness, and love on him and find fun ways to spend the saved $$. You do the solo-driver errands (big temptation time!) for the first month or so after quitting . . . But, be prepared to do this over and over a few times over the years. It's a hard habit to kick for many.

 

((hugs))

 

I have experienced this story, and the happy ending (and happy marriage) results from the spouse who looks the other way. The nag never wins. Trust me.

[Catwoman]

I'd count your blessings, and I'd let it go. Don't be a nag. I'd look the other way on the $$, except by negotiating the budget category. You'll need to budget this in, I am afraid. Take the extra month(s) to pay off the debt. Meanwhile, take an equal amount of "fun money" to splurge on something you want. Maybe just setting "fun money" or "blow money" allowances for each of you will encourage him subtly to reduce/end his use since he'll use much/all of it on the expensive bad habit. I'd set the blow money accounts to be maybe $5-10/wk (separate! for each of you!) over what he is currently spending on tobacco. That way you aren't trying to control it, but he will "feel" it. Since you are "feeling" the amount he is currently spending, presumably this might work. Meanwhile, you can save your $$ and get something you really want.

 

The thing is, she can't look the other way when it comes to the money. She said that they are desperately trying to pay off bills, yet he is spending $80 a month that they don't have to spend -- she said she has every penny budgeted and doesn't know where the $80 is going to come from, so it's not like she can just give him his $80 and take an extra $80 to spend on herself, if the money isn't there to dole out.

 

My main issue is the deceitfulness of it all. He has been sneaking around and spending money he can't afford to spend, and I would be livid about the secrecy whether he was spending the money on tobacco or on vitamins and organic vegetables. The fact that he was hiding the spending would be the biggest issue for me.

 

My feeling is that Chucki is going out of her way to get out of debt and she thought her dh was on-board with the plan... except that he was secretly spending a lot of cash without telling her. And that really bugs me.

[Parrothead]

He came home with it in his mouth today. I was furious. I have no idea where he spit it out.

 

I tried to talk to him. He said he would call and get a prescription for chantix. He needs to find a coping mechanism for stress.

 

Thanks for all the advice. I'm not sure where this is going to go.

[Parrothead]

 

 

The thing is, she can't look the other way when it comes to the money. She said that they are desperately trying to pay off bills, yet he is spending $80 a month that they don't have to spend -- she said she has every penny budgeted and doesn't know where the $80 is going to come from, so it's not like she can just give him his $80 and take an extra $80 to spend on herself, if the money isn't there to dole out.

 

My main issue is the deceitfulness of it all. He has been sneaking around and spending money he can't afford to spend, and I would be livid about the secrecy whether he was spending the money on tobacco or on vitamins and organic vegetables. The fact that he was hiding the spending would be the biggest issue for me.

 

My feeling is that Chucki is going out of her way to get out of debt and she thought her dh was on-board with the plan... except that he was secretly spending a lot of cash without telling her. And that really bugs me.

 

 

Yeah, this. As it is he has no idea about what is in the checking account. I had no idea he had spent $25 over the last week. And as I said the budget is so tight I have to account for every penny. If I hadn't caught this we could have overdrawn at the bank because he hasn't been telling me that he I spending money.

 

There is no allowance for fun things. We went that route for too long and got into the debt mess we have now because of the whole, pay ourselves first mentality. That is a thing of the past.

 

 

[swellmomma]

I know what I would say I'd do but really the first thing I would do is have a fit. :grouphug:

 

 

I was thinking the same thing. I would flip out about the tobacco to begin with (huge no no for me), I would flip out about the money issue, if they as a couple set out this plan to pay off debt then he does NOT get to sneak around spending the money budgeted for that plan imo. I would have a really really hard time not being a nag about it. Mostly for the money reason but also hugely because I refuse to kiss an ashtray. For me it is a deal breaker, so my reaction would not be pretty. I wouldn't date someone who used nicotine in anyway, so if a spouse secretely started up, I would blow my top. So what I would do would not be helpful to this at all.

 

It sounds like you have gotten lots of great advice in this thread though. :grouphug: I really hope you can find a solution that works

[Melissa in Australia]

I just wish to send you more hugs. :grouphug: :grouphug:

[brehon]

Yeah, this. As it is he has no idea about what is in the checking account. I had no idea he had spent $25 over the last week. And as I said the budget is so tight I have to account for every penny. If I hadn't caught this we could have overdrawn at the bank because he hasn't been telling me that he I spending money.

 

There is no allowance for fun things. We went that route for too long and got into the debt mess we have now because of the whole, pay ourselves first mentality. That is a thing of the past.

 

 

Yeah, that would royally piss me off. I would fume about the habit itself if it were something he had at least discussed with me. My dh used to have the same habit. I did do what I stated before; I just didn't tell you that I told him there would be no more kissing, etc because the smell of that sh!t makes me nauseated (I was pg w/our first).The sneaking around and hurting the family financially isn't acceptable. Sorry you're dealing with this. Oh, and I agree with others who said the money is not HIS. It's YOURS (second person plural), i.e. the family's. My dh is retired and stays home with the kids. I do not and would never assume that my paycheck is MINE because I go to work. It's OUR money. I don't know if this is your perception or your dh's. Whomever has this perception should probably change it. Perhaps St Maximillian Kolbe, St. Blaise, St Bernadine of Siena, and/or Bl John XXIII could intercede.

[Luckymama]

:grouphug:

[Wildcat]

. 

 

[StephanieZ]

 

 

Yeah, this. As it is he has no idea about what is in the checking account. I had no idea he had spent $25 over the last week. And as I said the budget is so tight I have to account for every penny. If I hadn't caught this we could have overdrawn at the bank because he hasn't been telling me that he I spending money.

 

There is no allowance for fun things. We went that route for too long and got into the debt mess we have now because of the whole, pay ourselves first mentality. That is a thing of the past.

 

Well, I am wondering if dh is actually on board with your budgeting. I see a lot of references to your budget, you knowing the account balance, etc. Not having any fun money may be unacceptable to him. I know it would be unacceptable to me, no matter how tight the budget was. I would lose my mind. I would use the cards without knowing or caring what money was available. I would feel like I was being treated like a tiny child with no autonomy. Maybe you could get a small part time job or drop cable service or cancel a kid activity or find some other way to squeeze in some fun money for your dh. Sounds like you need to sit down and talk through this.

 

In any event, paying for tobacco is a lot cheaper than a supporting two households, and IMHO, treating a spouse like a bad child is a short road to divorce court.

[Parrothead]

 

 

Well, I am wondering if dh is actually on board with your budgeting. I see a lot of references to your budget, you knowing the account balance, etc. Not having any fun money may be unacceptable to him. I know it would be unacceptable to me, no matter how tight the budget was. I would lose my mind. I would use the cards without knowing or caring what money was available. I would feel like I was being treated like a tiny child with no autonomy. Maybe you could get a small part time job or drop cable service or cancel a kid activity or find some other way to squeeze in some fun money for your dh. Sounds like you need to sit down and talk through this.

 

In any event, paying for tobacco is a lot cheaper than a supporting two households, and IMHO, treating a spouse like a bad child is a short road to divorce court.

 

It isn't as if I have a bunch of fun money. We have a goal to be living out on our property and building a small house without a mortgage.

 

And there is no fun to be had here anyway. There is nothing here. Nothing. What fun are either of us to have in the middle of nowhere in a town with nothing but a flipping Walmart and a McDonald's.

 

I don't treat him as a small child. We both agreed with this goal, the budget, and the future living arrangement. He has decided to not hold to out agreement.

[AnIslandGirl]

Would your DH consider hypnotherapy? http://johnmorganseminars.com/stop-smoking-forever

 

It sounds like maybe you just need to have an honest discussion about finances. Show him the real balances in all your accounts, and an outline that shows if you save $XX a week how much closer to your goal you will be in a year, 5 years, etc.

Sometimes having a common goal is a struggle when one person actually wants it more than the other. :grouphug:

[Parrothead]

Would your DH consider hypnotherapy? http://johnmorganseminars.com/stop-smoking-forever

 

It sounds like maybe you just need to have an honest discussion about finances. Show him the real balances in all your accounts, and an outline that shows if you save $XX a week how much closer to your goal you will be in a year, 5 years, etc.

Sometimes having a common goal is a struggle when one person actually wants it more than the other. :grouphug:

 

He has access to all the financial info. All of the accounts,,with the exception of my IRA, are joint accounts and he has online access 24/7.

 

He has seen the budget. He knows the goal. He is in agreement with the goal.

 

I'll send him the link about the hypnotherapy. I don't think there is anyone within 100 miles who performs that service. But I'll look into it if he s interested.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

I would be very angry that he tried to hide it, and that he's spending money he can't afford to spend.

 

I have to disagree with those who said they'd say something once and let it go, or who wouldn't say anything about it.

 

You bet I'd have a lot to say! You're trying so hard to pay off bills and be debt-free and he sneaks around spending money behind your back? Ummm.... NO!!!! Not acceptable. Not at all!

 

Tell him if he wants to kill himself with his addiction, he can get a second job to pay for the stuff.

 

Oh, and as for this (I only quoted a tiny bit -- I hope that's OK!):

 

 

 

It's not HIS money. It's YOUR money as a family. You work, too, all day long. Just because he's the one who earns the paycheck doesn't mean he can do whatever he wants with the money.

I agree with this.

Another thing I would be angry with is the health risk. it is one thing for a health problem to occur just because, but to help one along so I can become your nurse maid later on is not for me. He is being selfish. Plain and simple.

[elfgivas]

i've been thinking about this a lot, and not at all sure what i would do.

 

and then this morning, i suddenly realized what i would do.

 

i'd journal like a crazy woman and then make a pot of tea.

i'd sit with dh and ask him to hear me out, and then say something like

 

1. i have noticed that you are buying tobacco and chewing in secret. (what)

2. i feel upset, worried, deceived, and angry. (how i feel)

3. i think you've been keeping it a secret because you knew it would upset me. i am worried about your health, i'm upset that you kept something secret from me, and i'm angry that this has delayed our being able to build on the property. (why i think it happened/why i feel the way i do)

4. i need us to be a team. i'd like there to not be secrets like this between us. if you have changed your mind about the budget and building on the property, then i need to know that. if you still want that dream, then i need us to work together to make it possible. i also love you and want to live a long time with you, and it worries me that you are doing something that may make that not possible. (what i need)

5. i am going to love you, not nag you, but listen quietly while you tell me what you are thinking and feeling. and then i would like to set a time to work thru some of the things we need to talk about and come up with an approach to at least some of them. (what i'm going to do next)

 

and then i'd listen.

 

this feels like one of those turning points in a relationship. :grouphug: :grouphug:

ann

[StephanieZ]

 

 

It isn't as if I have a bunch of fun money. We have a goal to be living out on our property and building a small house without a mortgage.

 

And there is no fun to be had here anyway. There is nothing here. Nothing. What fun are either of us to have in the middle of nowhere in a town with nothing but a flipping Walmart and a McDonald's.

 

I don't treat him as a small child. We both agreed with this goal, the budget, and the future living arrangement. He has decided to not hold to out agreement.

 

I hear how upset and hurt you are.

 

I hope you find a resolution you can both live with.

 

Sounds like you need a few honest loving conversations with your husband. Maybe sitting with a neutral third party like a therapist would help.

 

Maybe his priorities have shifted or perhaps he finds it too difficult to live with the lack of blow money. Fwiw, most of my blow money is spent via amazon, lol. There are gobs of silly things to blow money on despite the lack of good shopping. :)

 

People are allowed to change their mind. In fact, people are allowed to change. Sometimes smart people make stupid choices. Most great people have plenty of flaws. I am sure that you can think of plenty of worse flaws than this one. Tobacco use isn't the end of the world imho.

 

I am sorry this is so hard for you.

 

Good luck.

[Joanne]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Addiction is unreasonable, personality changing, and insidious ~ and nictotine is one of the worst; it is biochemically as bad as heroin.

 

He knows the heatlh risks. He knows the costs. He hid it because he knows your reaction (and his *own* feelings of shame).

 

It's likely he wants to quit, even if his behavior doesn't match up with what "wanting to quit" might look like.

 

Your anger and frustration and fury are understandable. Tobacco products are evil (and I am a former smoker myself).

 

But you don't have the power, words, wisdom, or ability to change him. He doesn't either.

 

Be alert about Chantix; it can have some severe mental side effects.