Teens don't look forward to getting a driver's license anymore...and parents don't seem to want them to.

[JennyD]

I don't have teenagers yet so no personal experience as a parent, but I do think that there is such a thing as waiting too long to learn to drive. My father was distinctly unenthusiastic about my learning to drive when I was a teen (17 was the legal age where we lived) and while thanks to my mom I managed to get my license, I was not allowed to use the family car and just never drove very much at all. From age 18 to 39 I then lived in various places where I could get by without a car.

 

At age 39 my husband got a job in Tennessee, we bought a car, and all of a sudden there was no getting around it -- I had to drive, nearly every day, and -- most terrifyingly -- with my three kids in the back. It has been a huge learning curve and by far the most difficult thing about our move here. A year and a half later, I am finally confident enough behind the wheel that it's not quite as frightening as it was, but I really wish that I had gone through this 'inexperienced driver' stage when I was a lot younger. And without my kids in the car.

[TravelingChris]

Like Mrs. Mungo said, we were a military family- so first child could not get a license until he was 18. We were stationed in Europe when he turned 16 and didn't return to the US until he was 17. Then we were in FL and he had to have a learner's permit for a year or until he turned 18. He got his license a few weeks after he turned 18 since he had to come back to FL from college and his semester didn't end until he was 18 and a few weeks.

 

Second child got hers a few days after her 16th birthday. We made a vacation/college visit trip of it since we were living in Northern VA at the time but she had a FL learner's permit and we were FL residents.

 

Third kid doesn't have her DL yet. She got her learner's a few weeks late so there was no way she could get her DL on her birthday. As it is, she is the most timid of the three with regards to driving and she was getting near the point she could take her test but she damaged her knee. NOw she is in a knee brace and we don't know when she will get it but I expect probably a month after she gets to use her leg again. I want her independent and to be a help around the house. Her dad is still AD military, works long, long hours and travels and I don't like having to cart her everywhere plus do all the shopping. Once she gets her license, we will either buy her a car or have her use her sister's until that one is able to drive again.

[swellmomma]

My oldest is old enough for his learner's permit, he doesn't want it right now. Says he is isn't ready for it. DD13 on the other hand is ready to start studying for it to take the test right after her 14th birthday. The learner's permit they need to hold for 2 years while practicing their driving with a licensed adult in the car before they can take the road test for their actual license. Oldest I would not trust to drive so I am glad he does not feel ready, because he is not. DD13 I think will be fine when the time comes. The youngest 2 we will have to wait and see.

[bettyandbob]

I don't have a car to let my oldest have for his use. I'd rather put the extra money for ins into college. I can see getting the permit early and having a child drive with parent's supervision as much as possible. But if ds can get around without a car and he can't have my car anyway why bother getting the actual license and paying the extra money for in. The decision was not about coddling.

 

Ds left for college without a license, only a permit. He turned 18 in late fall. He will probably get his license this summer.

 

Dd will probably get her license on an earlier schedule. she's female and a straight A student. She will be cheaper. But I will have to see if there will be a vhicle for her use.

 

Today, I heard on the radio that after years of dropping , fatalities of 16 and 17 year old drivers have increased for the last 2 years.

 

Coddling would be always being available to drive your child everywhere and making child think he couldn't get there without you. My dc know they can walk, find the bus ride a bike. I got my license at 16.5, but my vehicle was a bike I bought with babysitting money a 15. I rode my bike to work and school until I was 21. I was self sufficient without using a car.

[tex-mex]

Honestly, the insurance costs and today's dangers of teen driving/riding and parental classes from states about teens getting licenses make it not worth it.

 

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

Our family barely makes enough for one car's fuel, insurance and toll fees. And my son is Special Needs on top of this... I do not see him handling a job plus school until after age 18.

 

My family's culture was third world in the sense that you were expected to live in the house until marriage. The rent was $0 -- but the expectation was for you to either go to college or get a job (and even then, you gave a portion of your paycheck to the parents) to save up for a home when you got married. It was common to live in a multigenerational home before WWII... and credit made it common for the everyday joe to get their own home after WWII. But now with our credit (economy) going sour, it is ironic to see multigenerational housing coming back. I don't see it as coddling. Insurance rates for young male drivers are outrageous, IMO.

[Melissa in Australia]

My boys don't seem interested. Here you get a learners permit at 16, and have to drive with a licensed driver and accumulate 120 hours of driving. You can get a probationary license at 18, and drive solo with restrictions. the probationary licence goes for 3? years.

My oldest didn't manage to get his 120 hours before he left for uni. he now has no opportunity to get in driving practice, so he possibly will not get his license until he finished uni.

 

Ds17 got his learners at 16, and has not got much driving time in at all yet. he will be starting his AdvancedTAFE course next week. it is close to 100 km away so he should be able to get some driving experience in this year and hopefully get his 120 hours before he turns 18.

[Tokyomarie]

In Michigan, if they are under 18 and get a ticket of any nature, their license is stripped until their 18th birthday and locally, the police practically stalk the teens.

Faith

 

I'm not going to take the time to go to the state gov. website, but I'm questioning the "get a ticket of any nature" causing them to lose their license. My oldest daughter, who started driving under the graduated license law, did get a speeding ticket once when she was 17yo. She paid the fine, but certainly did not lose her license.

 

I also am not aware of high school students in our area being afraid of police action over their driving. Perhaps it has something to do with police in your local area?

 

As I mentioned upthread, our son doesn't have his license yet. We didn't look into insurance for under 18 male drivers since it looked like he wouldn't get his license before 18yo. If it is $3,000/year, I'm sure we would have waited until 18yo, even if we hadn't intended to do so! 10 years ago, when our oldest got her Level 2 license at 17yo, I think her insurance was about $1,000.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Both my kids had their own businesses at age 8. And they didn't need to drive to do so. Ds is planning to get a summer job and walk the 15 minutes to get to his job or ride his bike. Many kids on farms esp. have to muck out stalls etc. or so I understand. Not having your license = coddling is a false dichotomy just as having your license = not coddling is a false dichotomy. (And vice versa).

[swellmomma]

Coddling would be always being available to drive your child everywhere and making child think he couldn't get there without you. My dc know they can walk, find the bus ride a bike. I got my license at 16.5, but my vehicle was a bike I bought with babysitting money a 15. I rode my bike to work and school until I was 21. I was self sufficient without using a car.

 

Even that is not always coddling. I live in a rural location, biking for fun is fine, but I would not expect my kids to walk or bike 30 kms to the next town to work or extracurrics. Public transportation does not exist here. So I am available to drive them whenever they want and they truly can not get there without me to drive them. But that is not enough reason to push for them to get a license before they are ready.

 

I got my license when I was 22 and already the mother of 2, I had tested at 16, failed, and gave up until then. I just wasn't ready.

[littlebug42]

I am in no hurry for my children to begin driving. I work in our region's level I trauma hospital and I see all too often the horrible end results of teen driving accidents. At our hospital, they are the largest percentage of those seriously injured in major car accidents, if they make it to the hospital at all. I want to make sure that my children are not only physically capable of driving a car but also have the maturity level required to handle the responsibility.

[....]

I am in no hurry for my children to begin driving. I work in our region's level I trauma hospital and I see all too often the horrible end results of teen driving accidents. At our hospital, they are the largest percentage of those seriously injured in major car accidents, if they make it to the hospital at all. I want to make sure that my children are not only physically capable of driving a car but also have the maturity level required to handle the responsibility.

 

 

I was in a horrible accident when I was a teenager. I should've died. I flipped my car down a ravine, was thrown head-first out the drivers-side window and sucked back into the car. I still have problems with my neck and headaches. The same year, two boys in my class also died-one going WAY too fast on his motorcycle and the other hit a telephone pole.

 

I have a son and 3 daughters and I have no idea how we would afford insurance for them anyway (and they're really close in age). So, we will play it by ear, but I'm ok with waiting until 18. Besides safety, the cost of living is so high right now, it makes sense to wait. With gas at almost $4 a gallon, where the heck are they going to go anyway?

 

As far as multigenerational living goes, my husband didn't move out of his parents' house until he was 27 (after our wedding-lol). My husband is from Korea and that's just normal for them. In fact, my MIL was furious when she found out WE weren't moving in with them after our wedding! Lol. We've since made up. We bought a house last year with an extra bedroom/bathroom so they can move in with US. :)

[misty.warden]

I'm not excited about ds getting to driving age unless our financial circumstances change quite a bit in the intervening years. As a teen, I was excited about driving...until I realized my family could barely afford the insurance, and the rate would never go down until I got "experience" that I could only get by paying that exorbitant rate. Responsibility didn't really come into it.

[Donna]

Teens get their provisional license at 17 here and a full license at 18. My oldest ds was not in a hurry to drive. He poked around with having his Drivers Ed (6 hours) required to get his permit at 16.5yo so didn't take his test for his license until 6 weeks after his birthday. He likes being able to drive himself to wrestling practice but doesn't drive much besides that. My younger ds is counting down the days until he can take Drivers Ed.

[DarlaS]

I've never heard that about Michigan, either. Neither have my relatives that lived there.

 

 

That would be because it's not true. I posted about my son's ticket (and fwiw it was for causing an accident) upthread. He even got to do a driving course (online--and we paid for it) to get the 2 points removed from his license. They never even suggested pulling his license.

[Kari C in SC]

I haven't begun to read this whole thing. I will keep it short. An 18 year old girl killed my 21 year old son because she was driving 85 in a 55 on a 2 lane road. She came up on a car that had just pulled off a side road. She tried to pass and went head on into a semi. She demolished the car they were in and totaled the semi. She got her permit 2 weeks prior on her 18th birthday. She was pulled over 3 days before for speeding. She was pulled over 45 MINUTES before this accident for speeding and was released even though she was driving alone without a license. She killed herself and my son because she was too immature to be operating a vehicle.

 

My son got his license when he was 17. He bought his own car and insurance. I thought he was pretty responsible. I was wrong. He had many tickets in the time he left home. One on the very same road he was killed on just the week before he died there.

 

My kids will get a permit and they will drive for a very, very long time with supervision. They will also have to pay the expenses related to a car. I don't think either of them will be young drivers.

 

For anyone that thinks its no big deal to let an immature teen drive, I will gladly send you the PDF of my son's accident report. I am positive it will change your perspective.

[caroljenn]

My dd is 15 1/2 and has her driver's permit. She wants to drive and dh and I want her to also, but for varying reasons. We both like the idea of the rite of passage type of thing. She is very mature for her age and very responsible and a great student, so it's kind of a reward for her doing well.

 

We weren't planning on getting her a car until she turned 17, the summer before her senior year, but we happened to buy a used car for dh and are able to give her his old car, so she will have one for her 16th birthday. I have already told her that she will not have full access to that car until she is 17, and even then she will not be able to drive herself anywhere and everywhere. We live in Southern California, and it's a fairly populated area. Her school is 10 minutes away and the mall is 5 minutes away. She will be allowed to drive herself to school and the mall and the movies and stuff like that. She understands that we are trying to protect her, so she's happy with that.

 

One of our friends has a son dd's age (5 weeks younger) and there is no way I would let that kid get his license if he was my ds! It varies by child, I think.

[caroljenn]

I haven't begun to read this whole thing. I will keep it short. An 18 year old girl killed my 21 year old son because she was driving 85 in a 55 on a 2 lane road. She came up on a car that had just pulled off a side road. She tried to pass and went head on into a semi. She demolished the car they were in and totaled the semi. She got her permit 2 weeks prior on her 18th birthday. She was pulled over 3 days before for speeding. She was pulled over 45 MINUTES before this accident for speeding and was released even though she was driving alone without a license. She killed herself and my son because she was too immature to be operating a vehicle.

 

My son got his license when he was 17. He bought his own car and insurance. I thought he was pretty responsible. I was wrong. He had many tickets in the time he left home. One on the very same road he was killed on just the week before he died there.

 

My kids will get a permit and they will drive for a very, very long time with supervision. They will also have to pay the expenses related to a car. I don't think either of them will be young drivers.

 

For anyone that thinks its no big deal to let an immature teen drive, I will gladly send you the PDF of my son's accident report. I am positive it will change your perspective.

 

 

Oh my gosh - I am so sorry, Kari. :grouphug:

[Tap]

DS18 is very smart, but oblivious to the rest of the world. He started learning to drive at 16 and then he chose to ride the city bus instead of getting his license. It didn't break my heart. LOL He is 18 and is more mature and ready now. I told him he needs his license before fall, this is his last year of us driving him. We know several adults who have never had a license and only use public transportation. Some due to ecological values, some for financial (don't want to pay for car/parking/insurance etc), some due to loosing their license after getting it.

In our state it costs about $600 if you are under 18 to get a license (450 for mandatory driving school and over $100 for testing/permit/license fees at DMV). So many parents can't pay for it.

We have a decent public transportation system so many, many kids ride the bus here.

DD14 will be more motivated to get a license and is naturally more independent than DS18. She is also Wayyyy more observant. I am ok with her getting her license on her 16th birthday, if that is what she wants. It will nice to not have to drive around so much and for her to have more freedom when it comes to school/classes. DS has to wait for us to come get him now that he changed to a college across state lines (2 hour bus ride each way vs 30 minute drive). He has to allow time to be driven to school and allow for our schedule to go get him.

It is a bit odd to tell people I have to drive my 3rd year college student around....LOL (He started college before he turned 16).

[Frances]

We live in the Pacific NW and from statistics I've seen, young adults here tend on average, to get their license at an older age compared to the rest of the country. Although my son has always been fascinated by cars, he really wasn't in any hurry to get his license and didn't do so until just after his eighteenth birthday. I was actually very relieved because we never had to have him on our insurance and he was more mature by the time he was licensed. Public transportation here is excellent and many kids prefer it to driving due to environmental concerns.

 

I don't see waiting for a license as delaying growing up or independence. He lived on his own in a major metropolitan area at 17 for a summer while doing research at our state medical school and the following summer lived with friends in the town where he now attends college. Completely by himself with no help from us he traveled by train to that city during study/finals weeks his senior year (he took college classes at the local LAC), applied for many jobs, and had some interviews. He was offered a job the day he finished finals and started the following week. All summer he walked, took the bus, or rode his bike (even after working many 16 hour shifts) to and from work because even though we can afford to buy him a car, we are not going to do so. I see owning a car and driving as huge responsibilities and want him to delay having a car until he can afford all of the expenses on his own. ( I will admit though that had it been a daughter working 16 hour shifts and walking/biking alone very late at night and very early in the morning, my view might be different. But with a male who has a black belt in karate and was in a relatively safe, although large, college town, I was not overly concerned for his safety.)

[bolt.]

 

 

Not if the alternative is that I have to drive them for years to come. Where I live, a car is pretty close to a MUST. Riding a bike would be death-defying right outside my driveway.

 

I understand that some live where getting around without a car barely registers. I might feel differently if that was true for me. My dd goes to private school and that will be the first, most obvious perk of her driving. It is impossible to bike or walk to and from school and public transportation would be so expensive, it would make no sense.

Meh. I'd drive to school, and other things that I felt we're significant -- but teens are well old enough to arrange car pools, and honestly, I can't imagine a place where car ownership, fuel, insurance and maintenance is actually more expensive than public transit. I'd have to actually see numbers -- and if it was the case, I'd still give the teen enough cash for a transit pass and let them make their own decisions if they actually think they can drive for cheaper.

[mommymilkies]

I was an EMT and I have teen brothers. I will wait a long time, because I feel 18 in general, is a more mature age. Safety is my #1 concern. Of course you can be injured or killed in a car through no fault of your own, but I did not get my license right at 16, and my kids likely will not, either. Luckily right now we live somewhere that we can easily bike or walk most places most of the year, so I'm not worried about them being isolated.

[Audrey]

We have graduated driver's licences in our province. It really swipes the thrill out of getting a licence, IMO. If kids here aren't so eager to get their licence, I suspect that is a big part of the reason.

 

I don't know about ds. He's 13 now. Neither dh nor I feel like he's capable of handling the farm truck just in the yard yet. Maybe in another year. Maybe not. We'll have to see. He wants to drive equipment, but until we decide he is capable, it's not going to happen. I have no desire to hold him back, but also no desire to push him if he's not ready.

[AngieW in Texas]

I've got three and my answers are different depending on which child we are talking about, that's why my answers seem to contradict themselves.

 

My dh was shocked that the two older girls had little interest in getting their licenses.

 

I started working on driving with both of my older girls at 15yo. The program that we use requires 50 hours of driving practice. By her 16th birthday, my oldest had managed maybe 12 hours of driving practice. She finally got all of her practice in about one month before her 17th birthday and that's when she got her license.

 

My middle dd was doing well on driving practice until she hit the curb and blew out the tire on our van. That really set her back. She was scared to drive after that. It took about 9 months to get her back to almost the same confidence level. She got her license two months before her 17th birthday. She isn't actually as good at driving as my oldest. A big problem for her is that she has NO map in her head. She doesn't know how to get to places that we drive past all the time. It takes many repetitions for her to learn how to get to a place. She even gets lost in video games. She could get lost in a paper bag.

 

My youngest is completely different and is chomping at the bit to get started. She won't be 15yo until May, but she wants me to have the driving program ready to go for her. I expect her to be easier to teach than my other two and she has a great sense of direction, so at least that part will be easy. She is hoping to get her license on her 16th birthday.

 

For my two older girls, I did enjoy the delay in paying extra for car insurance. My dh is actually the one who costs the most for that though. In the past couple of years he has had 2 speeding tickets and he backed into a neighbor's car when heading to work one morning as well. At least he hasn't had a ticket in the past year.

[KungFuPanda]

I just want to toss out that DHs grandmother never got a license and was never coddled. She lived in Brooklyn her whole life. His parents didn't learn to drive until they left the city.

 

I remember my own mother learning to drive around 36. She's never been immature.

 

'Kids these days' face astronomical insurance rates that we never had to deal with. Also, Quill, you're in MD too with a kid in High School. Haven't you noticed how insanely busy most high schoolers are? They're at school before 7:30. Extracurriculars aren't just fun, but viewed as a requirement for college admission. The work load is astounding. On an easy night, my daughter ONLY has an hour of homework, and she's not even in an AP class yet. Usually she has 2-3 hours of work. I hear Junior year is even busier.

 

I drove early, was a good student, participated in extracurriculars and had a job. I was very busy, but my class work and homework load weren't nearly as intense as what my sophomore is pulling off.

 

Yesterday she was home from 3-4:30, then back at school until after 10 for dress rehearsals. They're having THREE this week. In my day, the school play was nowhere near this level of production, so the participants COULD manage a job to pay for MUCH cheaper insurance that was lowered by FREE driver's ed during school hours.

 

A drivers license just doesn't look that impressive on a college transcript.

[Jenny in Florida]

I have one of each. My daughter, 18, has been in no hurry to get her license. She has never especially enjoyed even riding in a car, and she struggles with some anxiety issues. Also, she was away at school for pretty much all of her first year of having her learner's permit, meaning she missed the typical window of opportunity. By the time she got home, she was busy with other things and just didn't have the mental or emotional energy to worry about it. She's learning now, but only because not driving is getting in her way. She still has no enthusiasm for it.

 

My son, on the other hand, is counting down to his 15th birthday (next month), despite the fact that we've clearly told him that we are not planning to sign off on getting him a permit right away. I'm just not convinced he's ready, and I'm more than a little terrified of what having a teenage, male driver in the house will do to our insurance.

 

Edit: I also think some of the sweeping generalizations in the original post are kind of funny when you attempt to apply them to my kids. For example, my daughter, who still doesn't have her license at 18, whom we are now assumed to be "babying," is the same daughter we were criticized for forcing to grow up too early by allowing her to go to a residential early college program at age 12. As I keep suggesting, isn't it possible kids are individuals? That maybe they have individual needs and aren't subject to broad generalizations?

[Wabi Sabi]

First of all, a disclaimer: my kids are young and my thoughts on this could change as they get older.

 

That said, I suspect we'll lean towards the early as possible camp. We do not live in an area where walking, taking public transportation or riding a bike is feasible. If we lived a few miles closer into town we'd have great public transportation options, but as it is we're just outside of town limits and that greatly reduces our transportation options. Even riding a bike the few miles into town and then hopping a bus is not an option since we live off of a busy road that is unsafe for pedestrians or cyclists.

 

My dh was a teen when he was riding as a passenger in a car being driven by his best friend. They were driving too fast, were in a terrible accident and dh's best friend was killed instantly. My kids are very familiar with this tragic story and we discuss it frequently. As a matter of fact, they were just asking my dh questions about it over breakfast this morning.

 

As a teenager I can remember my own friends, especially the males, driving very erratically and unsafely. They were wild! Given all of that, I would rather MY teens be the kids who drive, the kids who pick up their dates, etc. I'd rather teach my kids to drive safely and drill into their heads what will happen to them if we EVER find out that they were doing something dangerous while driving than count on some other kid to be a conscientious driver. The thought of my kids driving scares me, but the thought of them being a passenger with another teen driver scares me even more!

[SailorMom]

My teens were/are biting at the bit to get their permits and licenses. Oldest got his DL ON his 16th b'day, and younger DS plans to do the same.

 

They are the ONLY teens I know to be doing this right now. Most of their friends still don't have permits and really don't care that much.

 

From what I've seen, I honestly think it is because their parents make their lives far too comfortable. I mean - if you have a chauffeur any time you want one, why do you need to drive? And ma and pop aren't making them get jobs... I also think that most teens are being scared witless about the dangers of driving. I get a little fear to keep them from text-ing or doing other stupid things while behind the wheel - but these kids are so afraid they don't want to even try.

 

What scares me is that I know kids who are getting ready to graduate high school, got their licenses only a few months ago, and still are terrified of driving on the freeway.... Why did their parents let them get a license??? I really don't get it.

 

I also agree it's the whole "oh - they are so young" at like - 20!!! - nowadays. I mean - I had someone say to me, "18 isn't what it used to be," and acted like it was some biological issue - some sort of evolution that was not in any of our control. I said to her, "18 isn't what it used to be because parents treat their kids like babies forever. They'll grow up just as young if you make them...."

 

Well - I don't have to make mine, I guess, but with mine - they want to grow up, be independent, have their own lives.

[MBM]

My youngest is taking Driver's Ed this semester at his high school. He's having fun driving in the simulators but he's a bit nervous on the real roads. In June, he'll get his official license. We'll probably only have him drive on non-interstate roads for awhile and maybe a few very early, Sunday drives on the interstates into Chicago so he'll get used to how and where to merge and turn-off.

 

Anyway, I think kids who grow up in congested suburbs and cities just feel scared when driving and that could be part of the reason why those kids are not eager to get their license. Chicago can be a bear of a place to drive. There are times when I'm sweating bullets trying to make quick merges in heavy, fast-moving traffic and I've been driving for decades. Many cities have decent public transportation, too. Owning cars can be expensive in the city, too. Those are a few reasons why city kids might wait.

 

I grew up in a rural area but had to wait until I was about 18 to get my license. I would have preferred to get it earlier but it was too expensive.

 

As for coddling here in the States, in Italy many kids live at home while they attend a nearby university. Parents think it's better for their children to slowly break away rather than leave home abruptly around age 18 like our children tend to do. In fact, many of their children will live within a mile or so of their parents throughout their lives. My point is that we are not really as *coddly* (lol) as we might think we are.

[Jenny in Florida]

There is an aspect of that, though it's actually more being available at 2:30pm to schlep her back home. But the bigger question to me is - why? Why are so many kids barely noticing they are turning 16 and could drive?

 

 

In my daughter's case, it was because she was busy graduating from college.

 

My son's friends are all older than he is, and I don't know of any of them who have their permits or licenses. All of them are busy, good to great students absorbed in demanding extracurricular activities. Most come from lower-middle to middle class families who cannot afford to gift the kids with a car and take on the burden of as much as doubling their insurance premiums to add a teen driver. Given the pressure that comes with preparing to apply to selective colleges (and the scholarships that make it possible to attend), some of these kids barely have time to sleep, making a part-time job a very difficult prospect. And teen unemployment here is extremely high, meaning even those who are looking and applying aren't finding work to pay for their own cars and insurance.

 

I'm honestly astonished at how busy and accomplished most of the teens we know are. They have many more responsibilities and a lot more pressure than I did, in my suburban adolecense. I'm not surprised they're too busy -- or maybe too tired -- to care much about chasing down a little plastic card.

[MBM]

I just want to toss out that DHs grandmother never got a license and was never coddled. She lived in Brooklyn her whole life. His parents didn't learn to drive until they left the city.

 

I remember my own mother learning to drive around 36. She's never been immature.

 

'Kids these days' face astronomical insurance rates that we never had to deal with. Also, Quill, you're in MD too with a kid in High School. Haven't you noticed how insanely busy most high schoolers are? They're at school before 7:30. Extracurriculars aren't just fun, but viewed as a requirement for college admission. The work load is astounding. On an easy night, my daughter ONLY has an hour of homework, and she's not even in an AP class yet. Usually she has 2-3 hours of work. I hear Junior year is even busier.

 

I drove early, was a good student, participated in extracurriculars and had a job. I was very busy, but my class work and homework load weren't nearly as intense as what my sophomore is pulling off.

 

Yesterday she was home from 3-4:30, then back at school until after 10 for dress rehearsals. They're having THREE this week. In my day, the school play was nowhere near this level of production, so the participants COULD manage a job to pay for MUCH cheaper insurance that was lowered by FREE driver's ed during school hours.

 

A drivers license just doesn't look that impressive on a college transcript.

 

 

I agree. My son is so busy, even on weekends, I just don't know how he's going to get the 50 hours of driving practice with his dad and me. It'll happen, but so far, he's only driving about an hour per week with us.

 

 

*****

 

And, Kari C in SC, I am so sorry about your son. :grouphug:

[Jenny in Florida]

I haven't begun to read this whole thing. I will keep it short. An 18 year old girl killed my 21 year old son because she was driving 85 in a 55 on a 2 lane road. She came up on a car that had just pulled off a side road. She tried to pass and went head on into a semi. She demolished the car they were in and totaled the semi. She got her permit 2 weeks prior on her 18th birthday. She was pulled over 3 days before for speeding. She was pulled over 45 MINUTES before this accident for speeding and was released even though she was driving alone without a license. She killed herself and my son because she was too immature to be operating a vehicle.

 

My son got his license when he was 17. He bought his own car and insurance. I thought he was pretty responsible. I was wrong. He had many tickets in the time he left home. One on the very same road he was killed on just the week before he died there.

 

My kids will get a permit and they will drive for a very, very long time with supervision. They will also have to pay the expenses related to a car. I don't think either of them will be young drivers.

 

For anyone that thinks its no big deal to let an immature teen drive, I will gladly send you the PDF of my son's accident report. I am positive it will change your perspective.

 

Lately, I've taken to clicking "Like" rather than posting an "I agree." However, it just felt so wrong to "like" your post, Kari. I did want to thank you so very much for speaking up, for sharing Timmy's story in this context. It's a powerful argument, and I think a very valid one.

[catz]

:grouphug: Kari :grouphug:

[FaithManor]

 

I do understand expense and how it can be a contributing factor, but I don't understand seeing it as prohibitive if one would otherwise think it's beneficial. I view it as an expense that is part of parenting. I wasn't counting on paying $4,500 to straighten my kid's teeth, either, but we managed to do it somehow or other. (I'm not being flippant towards those with serious financial strain - that isn't what I mean.) When I learned to drive, my folks had one car - that's it. I didn't have a prayer of driving on any regular basis until I bought my own. Buying my own was difficult. I didn't manage it until I was 19. I had to pay for 100% of every single thing. But I at least had a license. Everything was in place when I did buy my own car.

 

I think that's pretty judgmental. For many kids, braces are a medical need and driving is a luxury. BIG difference.

 

Frankly, I could send all of my kids to MSU or U of M for college and they would never need to drive their entire four years there due to the extensive public transportation and infrastructure provided. Since there are huge numbers of kids from our area attending school at either institution, getting a ride home is a no brainer. So, I can spend $4800.00 to get him licensed now and then $3000.00 a year to insure him for the next two years, or I can just put several thousand dollars in savings towards college. Guess what???? College money wins. At 18, it will cost me all of $80.00 to license him if he desires it, and $150.00 a month in insurance so long as he drives an inexpensive to insure car....probably or old Ford Taurus. It makes NO sense to dh or I to do it the other way.

 

Faith

[lailasmum]

I passed my driving test at 25 a couple of months after my dd was born. I actually never found it a major problem. Prior to 25 I used to walk everywhere and use public transport both when I lived rurally and when I live in London, yes sometimes it was inconvenient but I survived. Part of my lack of desire to learn to drive was because of how environmentally aware I was, I saw cars as pretty disgusting things. When I did finally learn to drive It took me a really long time because I am so uncoordinated. I feel like it was a good thing I waited I had some much more life experience to draw from.

 

Being 25 when I passed also meant I went onto cheaper car insurance pretty much straight away. The insurance on my first car which was an estate car was £200 a year for 3 drivers. A friend of ours is 23 and was recently quoted £3500 a year for insurance for his car if kept at his fathers or £2500 if the car was on his army base, add to that the road tax, high cost of fuel, servicing and maintenance of a car and I am not really surprise that teens don't look forward to gaining all that. It's way cheaper to use public transport.

[Jenny in Florida]

So, I can spend $4800.00 to get him licensed now and then $3000.00 a year to insure him for the next two years, or I can just put several thousand dollars in savings towards college.

 

Yep, and you know something we discovered? Once your kid has a permit or license, the insurance companies require you to pay to put them on your policy. If said kid is living in your home and is a legal driver, the presumption is that he or she may drive your car. So, simply having an additional driver in the house costs money, even if that person isn't driving. (The exception appears to be if your teen is away at school more than 100 or so miles from your house. At that point, the insurance companies will reduce or eliminate the additional charges temporarily.)

[Laura Corin]

I agree. My son is so busy, even on weekends, I just don't know how he's going to get the 50 hours of driving practice with his dad and me. It'll happen, but so far, he's only driving about an hour per week with us.

 

 

There's no way that Calvin will have time to learn to drive until the summer that he finishes school. That's very common around here: most people are 18 at that point; Calvin will be 17 1/2. There's an okay bus service into town until then.

 

Laura

[Guest]

My teens were/are biting at the bit to get their permits and licenses. Oldest got his DL ON his 16th b'day, and younger DS plans to do the same.

 

They are the ONLY teens I know to be doing this right now. Most of their friends still don't have permits and really don't care that much.

 

From what I've seen, I honestly think it is because their parents make their lives far too comfortable. I mean - if you have a chauffeur any time you want one, why do you need to drive? And ma and pop aren't making them get jobs... I also think that most teens are being scared witless about the dangers of driving. I get a little fear to keep them from text-ing or doing other stupid things while behind the wheel - but these kids are so afraid they don't want to even try.

 

What scares me is that I know kids who are getting ready to graduate high school, got their licenses only a few months ago, and still are terrified of driving on the freeway.... Why did their parents let them get a license??? I really don't get it.

 

I also agree it's the whole "oh - they are so young" at like - 20!!! - nowadays. I mean - I had someone say to me, "18 isn't what it used to be," and acted like it was some biological issue - some sort of evolution that was not in any of our control. I said to her, "18 isn't what it used to be because parents treat their kids like babies forever. They'll grow up just as young if you make them...."

 

Well - I don't have to make mine, I guess, but with mine - they want to grow up, be independent, have their own lives.

 

 

:iagree: Yes, this is exactly what I think.

 

About coddling - I am not saying that for sure every young person who doesn't get a license as soon as they are able is being coddled. However, coddled kids have no impetus for getting a license. "Mom will drive me, or I can bum a ride from (whomever); why go through the stress and challenge of getting my own license?"

 

And yes - kids are busy. Yes, Kung Fu Panda, my kid has a full schedule and many calls on her time. That is why I set her classes at Driver's Ed up for the week of mid-terms and when there were a few days of vacation. There were only two days when she had a full school day plus DE at night. Others do the Driver's Ed over Christmas vacation, or over the summer, so they can do it when they are not as busy.

 

Not getting a driver's license until heading off for college is insane in my view. If they are going to college in another state, they are getting licensed when they are on the verge of being totally outside of parental influence and with much more likelihood of driving at late hours and with possible drug and alcohol factors.

 

And I'm sorry - I have not read each and every reply. There are just too many of them to read and I can't even comment on all of the ones I did carefully read. I am surprised by the responses and did not imagine this would turn into a multi-pager in so short a time.

[Melissa in Australia]

 

:iagree: Yes, this is exactly what I think.

 

About coddling - I am not saying that for sure every young person who doesn't get a license as soon as they are able is being coddled. However, coddled kids have no impetus for getting a license. "Mom will drive me, or I can bum a ride from (whomever); why go through the stress and challenge of getting my own license?"

 

And yes - kids are busy. Yes, Kung Fu Panda, my kid has a full schedule and many calls on her time. That is why I set her classes at Driver's Ed up for the week of mid-terms and when there were a few days of vacation. There were only two days when she had a full school day plus DE at night. Others do the Driver's Ed over Christmas vacation, or over the summer, so they can do it when they are not as busy.

 

Not getting a driver's license until heading off for college is insane in my view. If they are going to college in another state, they are getting licensed when they are on the verge of being totally outside of parental influence and with much more likelihood of driving at late hours and with possible drug and alcohol factors.

 

And I'm sorry - I have not read each and every reply. There are just too many of them to read and I can't even comment on all of the ones I did carefully read. I am surprised by the responses and did not imagine this would turn into a multi-pager in so short a time.

 

 

I know that it is different in your country, but here you cannot get your probationary license until 18, which is about the age of going away to uni. So the child WILL need their parent s to drive them around unitl then. nothing to do with coddling everything to do with how the system works here.

[Luanne]

I think some of the issue is the cost factor. My daughter hasn't wanted to drive which has turned out better in our case. I don't think I could afford to have her added to the insurance. If we both worked, we would have to have two cars ... very expensive these days to even own one car.

[Kari C in SC]

I have one more thing to add since I was thinking about this thread today. My husband and I were very young parents and by all accounts seemed very responsible. He worked and I stayed home to care for our baby. We were both in college. Somebody looking at us would have said we were quite mature for 19 and 20. I remember driving from Florida to North Carolina one New Year's Eve. I was the one driving in AWFUL fog. I was speeding way over the limit. I thought nothing of it. Now, my parents never did that and I was not raised to do that. It was my immaturity. I would never think to do that today. I would say that I got a ticket around the time I was 23ish and was one mph from reckless driving. That is when it hit me that I needed to quit. My dh has never had a ticket and has never been much for speed. My son was great at the skill of driving. He made it look effortless. He also loved speed. He bought his first brand new car 2 weeks before he died. He got 3 tickets in that time. He didn't cause his accident, but he could have. I share this for those parents that say, "My kid is responsible. My kid would never..." Both myself and my son were the picture of responsibility. Both of us made bad choices. My dd will be 15 this fall. I would like for her to get her permit and thn drive with an adult until she is 18. I will make her spend some time on the Compassionate Friends Facebook page. Every single day there is a new parent that has lost their child in an auto accident.

[Guest]

I have one more thing to add since I was thinking about this thread today. My husband and I were very young parents and by all accounts seemed very responsible. He worked and I stayed home to care for our baby. We were both in college. Somebody looking at us would have said we were quite mature for 19 and 20. I remember driving from Florida to North Carolina one New Year's Eve. I was the one driving in AWFUL fog. I was speeding way over the limit. I thought nothing of it. Now, my parents never did that and I was not raised to do that. It was my immaturity. I would never think to do that today. I would say that I got a ticket around the time I was 23ish and was one mph from reckless driving. That is when it hit me that I needed to quit. My dh has never had a ticket and has never been much for speed. My son was great at the skill of driving. He made it look effortless. He also loved speed. He bought his first brand new car 2 weeks before he died. He got 3 tickets in that time. He didn't cause his accident, but he could have. I share this for those parents that say, "My kid is responsible. My kid would never..." Both myself and my son were the picture of responsibility. Both of us made bad choices. My dd will be 15 this fall. I would like for her to get her permit and thn drive with an adult until she is 18. I will make her spend some time on the Compassionate Friends Facebook page. Every single day there is a new parent that has lost their child in an auto accident.

 

Kari, I was going to reply to you earlier, but no matter what I typed, it sounded crass. Now it seems crass if I fail to respond again, so I'm going to try.

 

I know the story of your son and it is heartbreaking. The wrong of losing your son will always hurt and can never be fully rectified. I get that completely.

 

However, we cannot erase the possibility of someone driving foolishly or just plain poorly when they are young and/or inexperienced. We cannot erase the fact that younger/less experienced drivers will have more accidents and more serious accidents than older, experienced drivers will. The girl whose reckless driving killed your son was breaking the law and driving foolishly. This is not the exclusive domain of the young. Would I urge my kid to get a license if I thought they were foolish and not up to the task? No. But I also wouldn't let them go on being chauffeured around for years to come just because it's intimidating to be in control of a vehicle and requires some nerve to drive well. IOW, I don't cater to their weakness. If they are acting "soft," I expect them to rise to the challenge and learn.

 

I'm glad my state has a lot of hoops to jump for licensing. I was planning to make a rule about not driving with other teens/kids in the car for at least a year after licensing, but the state conveniently made a law like that anyway. I do think a lot of in-car stupidity with young drivers is amped up by other young folks in the car, so I see a lot of sense in that law. My BIL was killed under circumstances like that; he was 20.

 

I agree with you that even the most responsible, mature person can have a stupid driving moment. I have never been in an accident beyond a fender-kiss type while driving; I believe myself to be a very good driver. But I've had my stupid moments. I've driven too fast for conditions, driven while unbearably tired, driven with one drink more than I should have had, and once, drove with my lights off because the car was a rental and I thought they were on! :tongue_smilie: Any of those foolish decisions could have caused a tragedy. Thankfully, they didn't. My point is - I wish we could eliminate the possibility of what happened to your son ever happening to anyone, but we can't. If that girl was 19 or 20, she still could have made those fatal decisions in driving. If she was 16, she could have also.

[redsquirrel]

In these parts, it is a sign of status to be able to afford having your kid on your insurance. Coddling doesn't have anything to do with it. The two most coddled young people I know, a niece and nephew, were each given a Mercedes as a high school graduation gift. And, yes, they had their license ASAP in high school.

 

I am not sure we can afford to have our son to get his license while he is living at home. In my state any licensed driver in the home must be on the insurance, if they use the car or not. Even if they have their own car they must be on the insurance. So, if you have a roommate and that person has a driver's license, you the car owner must pay as if you have two full time drivers of your car. I once had 5 roomates, we each owned our own cars, but we all had to pay higher rates of insurance.

 

So, yes, I expect my kids to have their own lives, but I can't afford to insure them on my car insurance. So, I guess they will have to be 'coddled' and driven places. And I guess you will judge us for that.

 

And FTR, I had my license as early as possible because my mom, a single parent, needed to have a second driver in the house. So, I was driving my coddled younger siblings to their activities and picking them up etc. But, my mom couldn't afford to put the rest of her kids on her insurance. So, for a long time, I was the only other driver in the house.

[happyhomemaker25]

I passed my driving test at 25 a couple of months after my dd was born. I actually never found it a major problem. Prior to 25 I used to walk everywhere and use public transport both when I lived rurally and when I live in London, yes sometimes it was inconvenient but I survived. Part of my lack of desire to learn to drive was because of how environmentally aware I was, I saw cars as pretty disgusting things. When I did finally learn to drive It took me a really long time because I am so uncoordinated. I feel like it was a good thing I waited I had some much more life experience to draw from.

 

Being 25 when I passed also meant I went onto cheaper car insurance pretty much straight away. The insurance on my first car which was an estate car was £200 a year for 3 drivers. A friend of ours is 23 and was recently quoted £3500 a year for insurance for his car if kept at his fathers or £2500 if the car was on his army base, add to that the road tax, high cost of fuel, servicing and maintenance of a car and I am not really surprise that teens don't look forward to gaining all that. It's way cheaper to use public transport.

 

 

My mom was in her 30s when she learned to drive. I was a preschooler about 3 or 4. They were going to adopt a second baby and she figured it was time. LOL

[aggieamy]

I haven't begun to read this whole thing. I will keep it short. An 18 year old girl killed my 21 year old son because she was driving 85 in a 55 on a 2 lane road. She came up on a car that had just pulled off a side road. She tried to pass and went head on into a semi. She demolished the car they were in and totaled the semi. She got her permit 2 weeks prior on her 18th birthday. She was pulled over 3 days before for speeding. She was pulled over 45 MINUTES before this accident for speeding and was released even though she was driving alone without a license. She killed herself and my son because she was too immature to be operating a vehicle.

 

My son got his license when he was 17. He bought his own car and insurance. I thought he was pretty responsible. I was wrong. He had many tickets in the time he left home. One on the very same road he was killed on just the week before he died there.

 

My kids will get a permit and they will drive for a very, very long time with supervision. They will also have to pay the expenses related to a car. I don't think either of them will be young drivers.

 

For anyone that thinks its no big deal to let an immature teen drive, I will gladly send you the PDF of my son's accident report. I am positive it will change your perspective.

 

 

Kari - you and your family are one of the many reasons why I think all parents should consider waiting. It's no shame to say 'My kid isn't ready to drive yet." I hope DD is a super responsible 16 year old because I'd love to have someone to send on errands but if she isn't she won't be driving. It is the most dangerous thing our teenagers do. It's isn't a rite of passage into adulthood. To me that's silly. It's an extremely dangerous activity that should never be taken lightly.

 

Driving is much more treacherous now than it was a generation ago. There are many, many more cars on the road. Drivers now text and chat on cell phones. There are many immigrants who can barely read English and who have no respect for the rules of our roads. There are distractions -- signs, cross streets, and shopping centers -- where there used to be quiet, open road. It's not as "forgiving" an environment as it used to be. You just can't compare what teens experience now to what things were like 20, 30, or 40 years ago.

 

 

I'm a traffic engineer and I don't agree with this. There are more possible distractions but driving is significantly less treacherous that it was even twenty years ago. Our highways and intersections have an incredibly high level of design that goes into making them safer. Breakaway sign posts? People used to die because they'd hit a sign on the side of the road. The number of entrances to our roadways is highly regulated and you'll probably notice that those wide open driveways (ocean driveways) that were so common decades ago are being replaced with one drive that's not nearly so wide. Our highways have been designed to give adequate distance to accelerate and merge now. Anyone in Texas remember those old suicide ramps on I-35 near Waco? Take a look at the visibility of traffic signals and the lighting at intersections. It takes hours to design a highway road sign because of the amount of details that goes into one of them. Same with pavement markings. They are designed to be visible at night and in rain. Huge improvement.

 

Our roads are safe. Our drivers are dangerous. Big difference and it's imporant to realize that.

[Kari C in SC]

 

Kari, I was going to reply to you earlier, but no matter what I typed, it sounded crass. Now it seems crass if I fail to respond again, so I'm going to try.

 

I know the story of your son and it is heartbreaking. The wrong of losing your son will always hurt and can never be fully rectified. I get that completely.

 

However, we cannot erase the possibility of someone driving foolishly or just plain poorly when they are young and/or inexperienced. We cannot erase the fact that younger/less experienced drivers will have more accidents and more serious accidents than older, experienced drivers will. The girl whose reckless driving killed your son was breaking the law and driving foolishly. This is not the exclusive domain of the young. Would I urge my kid to get a license if I thought they were foolish and not up to the task? No. But I also wouldn't let them go on being chauffeured around for years to come just because it's intimidating to be in control of a vehicle and requires some nerve to drive well. IOW, I don't cater to their weakness. If they are acting "soft," I expect them to rise to the challenge and learn.

 

I'm glad my state has a lot of hoops to jump for licensing. I was planning to make a rule about not driving with other teens/kids in the car for at least a year after licensing, but the state conveniently made a law like that anyway. I do think a lot of in-car stupidity with young drivers is amped up by other young folks in the car, so I see a lot of sense in that law. My BIL was killed under circumstances like that; he was 20.

 

I agree with you that even the most responsible, mature person can have a stupid driving moment. I have never been in an accident beyond a fender-kiss type while driving; I believe myself to be a very good driver. But I've had my stupid moments. I've driven too fast for conditions, driven while unbearably tired, driven with one drink more than I should have had, and once, drove with my lights off because the car was a rental and I thought they were on! :tongue_smilie: Any of those foolish decisions could have caused a tragedy. Thankfully, they didn't. My point is - I wish we could eliminate the possibility of what happened to your son ever happening to anyone, but we can't. If that girl was 19 or 20, she still could have made those fatal decisions in driving. If she was 16, she could have also.

 

 

I agree you can't take driving away from teens. I just think that there are a whole lot of parents that don't realize that 50 hours or whatever the number is of practice isn't really going to keep them safe. I also don't think parents realize that kids will tell you up and down that they won't speed, text, etc... and it is all just a bunch of words. Like I said - my dd will get her permit. Then she will drive a whole lot more than 50 hours with supervision. She will see the dangers of operating a vehicle. She will realize that is nothing to take lightly because it one of the most dangerous things she will ever do. As far as the girl who killed him - she was just 18. Statistically, it is well known that teen and young 20's drivers are the most dangerous. There is no disputing it. It is because many are immature and lack the common sense they need to make better decisions. All - of course not, but many.

[Arcadia]

Anyway, I think kids who grow up in congested suburbs and cities just feel scared when driving and that could be part of the reason why those kids are not eager to get their license.

 

It is horribly difficult to find parking in San Francisco. My hubby ended up paying $24 for parking to have dinner with his close friend's family that flew into town. When I had to go to San Francisco to go to my embassy, hubby circled a few rounds for more than 30mins because there was no parking. I just waited for him to circle back and hop onto the car in a no stopping zone during red light.

ETA:

I meant to say that urbanites are probably more scared of the exorbitant parking fees than of the turtle crawling driving. We alway joke that the brake pads will wear out faster.

For me, walking was faster than driving growing up as the traffic congestions were that bad on city roads

 

As for coddling here in the States, in Italy many kids live at home while they attend a nearby university. Parents think it's better for their children to slowly break away rather than leave home abruptly around age 18 like our children tend to do.

 

At least four years of dorm fees saved. That is a lot of money save or less debt for a fresh graduate. Besides won't it make more financial sense for the children to pay their parents the equivalent of the dorm fees, better the parents profit than the institution.

[MBM]

The other thing that drives me bonkers is seeing people absorbed in texting while driving, and I sometimes see adults doing this who are not paying attention to their surroundings. Sheesh!

[MBM]

Arcadia, I pay $4 per hour to park on the street in Chicago. In the Loop, I think it's $6-ish. Luckily, I go into the city often enough to know where to find the secret spots. Still, it adds up if you're down there for a few hours. (The Whole Foods underground parking on Dearborn and Huron is free for 2 hours and although they have signs saying they'll tow you, a clerk told me that they don't unless they see someone doing this all the time or for too long. :) )

[aggieamy]

The other thing that drives me bonkers is seeing people absorbed in texting while driving, and I sometimes see adults doing this who are not paying attention to their surroundings. Sheesh!

 

DH and I went to a lecture on dangerous behaviours while driving and a day after the lecture we saw someone doing the crossword puzzle while driving on the interstate. I'm completely series. Folded newspaper on steering wheel, pencil in hand, thoughful expression on face, driving at 70 mph. Unbelievable.

[LizzyBee]

My oldest one was excited to get her permit but a little more ambivalent about the license. She ended up being 18 and halfway through her senior year when she got her license, and she commented that she was glad she waited because she had driven in nearly every circumstance with her permit.

 

My second one has her permit but refuses to drive. She's one of those kids that could panic and hit the gas instead of the brake, and she's scared of driving. We tried to get her to practice even if just in parking lots and on back roads, but she refuses. I hate to make her because if something happened I'd feel terrible that I didn't let her trust her instincts. We'll give it a little more time, but I'd love for her to have her license when she's a senior (2013-2014). She won't turn 18 until the end of her senior year, though, and I won't be surprised if she waits that long.

 

My 11 yo is already counting down until she can take driver's ed... 3 years to go. Lord help us.... She has ADHD and is very impulsive. She will want her permit on her 15th bday and her license on her 16th bday. We will let her get them if she demonstrates that she'll be a careful driver.