Why do people in financial need plan to have more children?

[shinyhappypeople]

Sigh. Poor people keep having babies 'cause going to the movies costs money. Duh.

 

(think about it... got it?....)

 

Seriously though, we were broke-broke-broke-broke when I got pregnant with DD#2. I'd just been through five years of infertility/miscarriage hell. We'd just adopted older DD when our financial life bottomed out in a big way. Nevertheless, preventing pregnancy was just unfathomable to me at the time, and I wanted more kids. So DD#2 was joyfully conceived and made our family complete :) We're doing okay now financially. Not great by any stretch, but starting to find our footing again. I have NO regrets for conceiving DD#2 *on purpose* when we did.

[Tap]

Because babies aren't really expensive unless you let them be (barring a medical condition). If you use cloth diapers, shop inexpensively for clothing/bedding/toys, breastfeed, and have a safe bed/carseat for the little one.....everything else is a luxury that isn't really needed.

 

Even school age children don't NEED a lot. People who live at a lower income level often know where to get financial assistance if they really need it. The families I know who continue to have childen despite living below poverty level seem to do just fine. In fact, sometimes they seem happier because they do what is Needed in life, instead of keeping up with the Jones' or stressing over decisions like 'should I buy the 16g or 32g iPad?'.

 

We stopped at 2 because we wanted to offer our children more opprotunities as they grew up but I don't think the things that I prioitize for my kids, are the same as my friends with lots of kids/low income prioirtize for theirs. I don't think either family is better that the other, I just think our kids are growing up in the same world, full of love.....just with different toys.

[Hannah]

If you were the person supporting family, would you feel that you had a right to an opponion on their reproductive choices?

 

[Reya]

If you were the person supporting family, would you feel that you had a right to an opponion on their reproductive choices?

 

I don't think it's right for people to include public assistance as part of their budgeting/planning for a family. Not at ALL.

 

If the people doing the supporting want to support more, like the family with 9 kids I described, then by all means, let them continue. If the family is being repeatedly rescued by family who disagree with their choices and are just not wanting family to suffer, then they should respect that and stop. It's only "their family" if they are paying the bill.

 

If we were so broke that we needed help TEMPORARILY, my parents would be glad to give us a loan to allow us to try to expand our family, understanding that we have infertility/subfertility/miscarriage difficulties. If I were normally fertile, I'd hold off.

 

If I would be dependent for the foreseeable future or I suddenly needed public assistance, I'd stop, period.

[Rosie_0801]

If you were the person supporting family, would you feel that you had a right to an opponion on their reproductive choices?

 

Everyone has a right to their opinion though some thoughts are best kept inside one's own head, and it is worth remembering the only person who owns a uterus is the woman wearing it. On this topic, the financial provider would be making a wiser decision if they choose to focus on how funding their relatives was *their* decision and not the relatives.

[happyhomemaker25]

I'll bite because really it's something I have struggled with. When DH was first laid off in 2009 I joked that we would surely get pregnant now. We'd adopted five kids (when we were actually financially stable!) and had been trying for our own bio children for 9 years. Sure enough by the end of 2009 I discovered a miracle was a coming. :)

In 2011 Dh was severely underemployed. I was shocked to discover that my baby who'd just turned 1 was going to have a close in age sibling. It was a really rough time for us and not a good time for a baby, but after battling infertility for 9 years, 2 babies in 2 years was going to be a blessing to us no matter what. A few weeks later I suffered a traumatic ectopic pregnancy that ended with a burst tube.

I was empty and broken. I prayed for another baby to help fill the emptiness inside of me.

A year later we are not much better financially, but we do have prospects. We are expecting again. So far everything is going great. I worried about how others would take our news because we are struggling financially. I also know it's only for a season. Better times are just around the corner. We are relatively debt free so all we need is one break to get to a better place financially. My kids are happy and healthy, fed and clothed. We do use the Medicaid that our children were given as former foster children. I have a gov. subsidized health insurance, but I still pay a premium every month. My DH has VA medical. We pay out of pocket for our youngest.

We are not financially stable right now, but babies bring such joy to our family. As someone else mentioned, they don't have to be expensive. I successfully nursed Lily and hope to do the same with this baby. I'll not give up without a good fight! People always have baby clothes to give away and I have a friend who gets discount diapers so she always brings me diapers. Other than that I have my Moby and my Ergo (both given with my last baby), a stroller, and a bed. I feel set. We do have to get a new car seat for this little one, but I'm already looking for ones that go on sale.

I don't know how long my fertility will last. We struggled so long with infertility. I'm not going to give up having more babies when we can feed, clothe, and care for them even if we can't do it without it pinching a bit.

Oh and my worried were mostly for naught. People have super supportive of us. Friends are even helping us look for a better job for DH. We do expect to be better off this time next year, but even if we aren't we truly are trusting God to not give us a blessing that will be a burden, but to supply all of our needs. :)

That's just my side of the whole story. I get the question though. I really do. I have family members who break my heart. They are doing absolutely nothing to better themselves and it's been like that for generations. They are now on the 3rd generation and they eat up benefits like candy and use whatever money they can on drugs and alcohol. It's heartbreaking and I have to say a little piece of me mourns every pregnancy announcement over there. It's just not getting better and they seem to be perfectly fine with that. I love all of those babies so much and would never wish one of them was not here, but I do wish they would have an easier life then those who came before them. So, yes, I understand your question.

[Hannah]

On this topic, the financial provider would be making a wiser decision if they choose to focus on how funding their relatives was *their* decision and not the relatives.

 

True. I guess they need to have a 'this one's on you' discussion.

[Reeciecup]

 

 

See, my problem is that parrots drive me crazy. When my daughter was almost two my ex decided that it'd be great for him to get an African Grey and then never be home. I almost roasted the blessed bird. When he sold it a year later I did a jig of joy.

 

 

I had an African Grey once, and I had a child at the same time. The child went through an obnoxious screaming phase, and that intelligent bird learned to mimic that screaming. The child grew out of the obnoxious screaming phase(and eventually into a sullen teenager), but the bird never grew out of it. Then it ended up that we became financially unstable. So we sold the Grey for a thousand bucks and paid the rent.

[delaney]

Temporary hard times and perpetuating a cycle are two different things. Having more and more kids with no reasonable solution to monetary strife in the future makes no sense. Living meagerly and simply without a lot of extras is not the same as making a habit of living off other people's tax dollars. People are crying about having to fund healthcare for those without but I fail to see how it is different from government assistance paying for a newborn's healthcare and formula.

[Murphy101]

My step-niece was pregnant out of wedlock for the 4th time, with at least the 3rd guy. She's been on public assistance most of her life. Lived in my brother's basement (with man & kids) for years. Hasn't held a job to my knowledge since she was in high school (she's in her 30s). Her 3 older kids have all manner of problems. She stated to me that she had conceived #4 intentionally because the unemployed, drug-addicted guy she was then with "deserved" a child of his own.

Yeah - I don't get it either.

 

I put forth the notion that her baby reasoning are the least of her problems and bad decisions. The problem isn't that she is poor with 4 kids. That's just the result of a half dozen or more bad reasoning going in there.

 

Your money situation may change, but you only have NOW to make your family the way you want it. If you want your children close together or you are getting too old (in your mind or otherwise) these are things that cannot be fixed later. Time is not always on your side.

That being said--- I have had babies in good (money) times and babies in bad--- I prefer the good times. ,

 

Yes. God willing, financial woes won't last 18-20 years but the baby will.

And yeah, I prefer the good times too. Who doesn't? :)

 

And truth be known, a huge demographic of our nation would NEVER be able to have children if they had to wait to meet some people's standard of finance. There are many hard working people who will never make it to even lower middle class status until well into their 30s or even 40s. By then, they might not be able to conceive, much less have more than 1 should they want to.

[vonfirmath]

3. If you wait for the perfect time, either you will never procreate or as soon as you do Murphy's Law says that your situation will change.

 

This. My dad warned me, as a child, that you don't wait for perfect circumstances to have children. Because if you do, you never will. And I've seen families with many more children than us living, and living happily, on even less.

 

Sometimes I wish we had more. But I also think God knows what we can handle and for now, we're handling what we have. I wanted a dozen growing up. I still want more, in a way. But in another way... I like the # we have and I am getting tired of the newborn stage. Pregnancy I can handle (and love). Newborns? Not so much.

[justamouse]

Offended is an understatement.

 

Hand me a cupcake for one hand and a bottle of vodka for the other? Because if I lived by the idea that I should only have kids when I was financially capable, I'd have none and only be getting pregnant in my late 30s. And even then I'd have to give 5 of them back.

 

Better get used to it, OP because the economy is in the crapper and the birthrates are the lowest they've ever been, so apparently most people think like you do. But someone has to have hope for the future and have kids to pay for your SS in your old age.

 

 

I don't remember Mother Teresa, who worked in a situation that most of us couldn't even comprehend, ever telling a woman to stop having babies because she couldn't afford them.

[Χά�ων]

I love babies and my desire for another is 100% base on my proximity to an adorable baby not fianicial independence.

 

But then, I personally do not undertand how people who make in a month what I make in a year are struggling to pay their bills. But I figure it is their life and they are not accountable to me for their actions and budget planning so I really do not care.I just want to snuggle the baby.

[Wendi]

I want the cupcakes on his nips like pasties, and a cup of tea to sip while he dances for my pleasure *que 'Private Dancer' by Tina Turner*

 

 

Boy, that escalated quickly. :lol:

[Twigs]

… But we could all buy matching fabulous earrings or something. …

 

 

How about these?

 

[Parrothead]

As long as people enjoy teA parties, babies will be the result - whether on purpose or by surprise. Finances don't play into it much when a teA party is on the table.

[SKL]

I think it is natural for a woman to want to procreate. I've always been single, and I had that strong desire until after I adopted my kids. I was willing to consider conceiving out of wedlock rather than die childless. So I understand that natural urge.

 

I would not begrudge a married / permanently committed couple of any financial means procreating to satisfy that urge.

 

What I don't understand is when people who already have kids and do not have financial prospects think it's a good idea to have more kids. I mean, I used to think I wanted a houseful of kids too, but now that I have two, I don't feel like I'll die unhappy if I don't have more, KWIM?

 

Of course I'd never say anything to anyone about it. I have no idea why my step-niece felt the need to explain her 4th pregnancy to me, out of the blue. I would have assumed it was unplanned, which is to say that God planned the baby, and frankly, I probably would have been less judgmental about that.

[Guest inoubliable]

I can't possibly have an opinion about other people's decisions regarding reproduction - any more than I can judge someone on their very personal decision on birth control, abortion, or who they happen to love and enjoy relations with. It's just not my business. I can only concern myself with my own decisions.

 

Also, I find that if you don't like people judging you for your life decisions, you can avoid it by not openly judging others for theirs.

 

One more thing - I have a tattoo. In Latin. Should I be worried??

[Murphy101]

There is a difference between perfect circumstances and dire circumstances though. Most people will never be in perfect circumstances.

 

 

Meh. The vast majority of the world lives, loves, and raises children far below what most first world people think is "dire circumstances". It seems... Dare I say it? Racist? Classist? Or? To suggest that all those people are irresponsible, ignorant, or whatever for wanting and loving their children just as much as someone in a much more financially secure situation. In fact, I think it cruel to remove the one source of joy and hope they might have in any otherwise bleak situation.

 

Are some people unloving ignorant whatsits? Sure.

 

But I think most people have their second or their tenth for the same reasons someone had their first. Because sex causes babies and most women birth them and love them despite whatever hardships there might be in their life.

 

I suppose I could make the obvious note that not everyone believes in birth control or feels birth control is a healthy choice or whatever, but mostly? People want their other children for the same reasons they wanted their first. I'm not sure why that's such a difficult concept to accept, but after many children over the years I'm well aware it is.

[Mrs Mungo]

If you were the person supporting family, would you feel that you had a right to an opponion on their reproductive choices?

 

 

A opinion? Well...if I am *very* honest? I have opinions on all sorts of things that are none of my business. I don't like some people's choice of spouse. I wish some people would believe in themselves and strive for a better job. I wish some people would change their insurance to a different state plan (they are a state employee). I think some people *with* money should never have had kids. I think the people on "rich kids of instagram" are asking for a French Revolution. But, I cannot actually control any of those people. I support my kids and I can only control their decisions up to a certain point.

 

Would I have an opinion on it? Probably. Would I feel that I had the right to actually *say something* to them? No. It is my choice to help support them or not. Their choices are in their court.

 

[justamouse]

 

OP, traditionally that's what families were for, they were interdependent communities and when someone needed help they got help. The family you described isn't desperate, they can feed their kids (just not in a manner that you'd be comfortable with), they are part of a community. I just don't understand, the circumstances are beyond their control (the economy is bad and the husband can't find a job) they shouldn't be procreating?

 

My parents couldn't afford any of us. Things are much better now than they were before and we are all very thankful for having been brought into existence. And let me tell you, they got a lot of help from extended family, now they are helping us and we will help our kids.

 

I once met a gentleman who was a lost boy of Sudan. His parents had him in the worst circumstances possible, really inhumane circumstances. He never got to see them again after he was 3 years old and suffered more trauma than any person ever has to before finally being able to make it here. Well, as this little boy grew older he was able to help countless of other children who were in similar dire straits and then when he was able to come to the States he was able to bless the lives of so many around him by giving them the opportunity to help him. I cannot even begin to imagine the number of lives this young man has touched and I am so glad that his parents were following God's plan for love and marriage and not man's.

 

 

<3

[Jennifer3141]

 

I ask myself the same question frequently. I have very little tolerance for blatant, willful irresponsibility. I just roll my eyes and move on, though. I can think what I like, but in the end, it's not my life to live.

 

 

And the other thing I'll never understand is why anyone would WANT to. We waited until I was in my early 30s. And we had a BLAST. It wasn't that we were flush with cash but waiting until we weren't living paycheck to paycheck with $20 in the account made everything so much more relaxed.

 

For example, LLL meetings. Afterwards, a group of us liked going out to eat. So we did. We called ourselved the "afterhours" LLL group. We were mostly the moms who had waited because the early 20-somethings couldn't afford to go or they had to work. I got to buy any cloth diaper I wanted and did I! :D

 

We weren't at the point in our lives where ANYTHING went but we were at the point in our lives where, "Honey, the baby has been crying ALL day. Can you just pick up Chinese and get me 100 crab rangoons??!" was ok. We were at the point where I got to make decisions on car seats based upon safety ratings, not cost. I loved that.

 

I watched a cousin have a baby when they had nothing and they aren't having nearly the fun we did by waiting.

 

On the other hand, they will be there for their kids when DH and I will have died on ours. My kids had better be prepared to be on their own in their 60s.

 

It's so flipping easy not to have a baby that I don't understand why reasonable people have babies they cannot afford. Obviously, a crime or a BC failure are different. But not all these "surprise" babies are BC failures or the pill's failure rate would be about 89%.

[Joker]

We had two while living paycheck to paycheck with basically nothing leftover and still had a blast. Now we're financially better off and we do more, but I wouldn't say we have more fun. I don't think not having money means you can't enjoy your life and your family.

[I.Dup.]

And the other thing I'll never understand is why anyone would WANT to. We waited until I was in my early 30s. And we had a BLAST. It wasn't that we were flush with cash but waiting until we weren't living paycheck to paycheck with $20 in the account made everything so much more relaxed.

 

For example, LLL meetings. Afterwards, a group of us liked going out to eat. So we did. We called ourselved the "afterhours" LLL group. We were mostly the moms who had waited because the early 20-somethings couldn't afford to go or they had to work. I got to buy any cloth diaper I wanted and did I! :D

 

We weren't at the point in our lives where ANYTHING went but we were at the point in our lives where, "Honey, the baby has been crying ALL day. Can you just pick up Chinese and get me 100 crab rangoons??!" was ok. We were at the point where I got to make decisions on car seats based upon safety ratings, not cost. I loved that.

 

I watched a cousin have a baby when they had nothing and they aren't having nearly the fun we did by waiting.

 

On the other hand, they will be there for their kids when DH and I will have died on ours. My kids had better be prepared to be on their own in their 60s.

 

It's so flipping easy not to have a baby that I don't understand why reasonable people have babies they cannot afford. Obviously, a crime or a BC failure are different. But not all these "surprise" babies are BC failures or the pill's failure rate would be about 89%.

 

Well I was fine to sit and read this thread without contributing, but I find this oddly offensive although I cannot pinpoint why exactly. We were married at 19 & 20 because of an unexpected pregnancy. We have been having babies every 19 months (on average) since then. Being open to life and having these kids is the best thing we've ever done and we have had a BLAST doing it. We even have enough for take-out.

 

Some of our kids have been conceived during less than ideal times for sure, but they're here and I hope they'll appreciate the chance at life. I wouldn't trade the kids I had in my 20's for all the crab rangoons in the world (whatever those are, LOL).

 

Each human life is so much more than we can see from our limited viewpoint. Each life represents generations, and an eternity.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

And the other thing I'll never understand is why anyone would WANT to. We waited until I was in my early 30s. And we had a BLAST. It wasn't that we were flush with cash but waiting until we weren't living paycheck to paycheck with $20 in the account made everything so much more relaxed.

 

For example, LLL meetings. Afterwards, a group of us liked going out to eat. So we did. We called ourselved the "afterhours" LLL group. We were mostly the moms who had waited because the early 20-somethings couldn't afford to go or they had to work. I got to buy any cloth diaper I wanted and did I! :D

 

We weren't at the point in our lives where ANYTHING went but we were at the point in our lives where, "Honey, the baby has been crying ALL day. Can you just pick up Chinese and get me 100 crab rangoons??!" was ok. We were at the point where I got to make decisions on car seats based upon safety ratings, not cost. I loved that.

 

I watched a cousin have a baby when they had nothing and they aren't having nearly the fun we did by waiting.

 

On the other hand, they will be there for their kids when DH and I will have died on ours. My kids had better be prepared to be on their own in their 60s.

 

It's so flipping easy not to have a baby that I don't understand why reasonable people have babies they cannot afford. Obviously, a crime or a BC failure are different. But not all these "surprise" babies are BC failures or the pill's failure rate would be about 89%.

 

I think many mothers value infants over crab rangoon. After LLL meetings I didn't want to go out to lunch with the girls because I wanted to go home to give my children their home-cooked lunch and rock them to sleep at naptime. That was the life I chose, and I was very grateful for it. I didn't envy anyone.

 

People also have differing definitions of "fun." The early years of my marriage, when our three older children were born, were the best time of my life. We were very poor but truly loved each other, our kids, and our life. We thought babies and home life were fun.

[mommaduck]

 

 

OP, traditionally that's what families were for, they were interdependent communities and when someone needed help they got help. The family you described isn't desperate, they can feed their kids (just not in a manner that you'd be comfortable with), they are part of a community. I just don't understand, the circumstances are beyond their control (the economy is bad and the husband can't find a job) they shouldn't be procreating?

 

My parents couldn't afford any of us. Things are much better now than they were before and we are all very thankful for having been brought into existence. And let me tell you, they got a lot of help from extended family, now they are helping us and we will help our kids.

 

I once met a gentleman who was a lost boy of Sudan. His parents had him in the worst circumstances possible, really inhumane circumstances. He never got to see them again after he was 3 years old and suffered more trauma than any person ever has to before finally being able to make it here. Well, as this little boy grew older he was able to help countless of other children who were in similar dire straits and then when he was able to come to the States he was able to bless the lives of so many around him by giving them the opportunity to help him. I cannot even begin to imagine the number of lives this young man has touched and I am so glad that his parents were following God's plan for love and marriage and not man's.

<3 this post.

[mommaduck]

And the other thing I'll never understand is why anyone would WANT to. We waited until I was in my early 30s. And we had a BLAST. It wasn't that we were flush with cash but waiting until we weren't living paycheck to paycheck with $20 in the account made everything so much more relaxed.

 

For example, LLL meetings. Afterwards, a group of us liked going out to eat. So we did. We called ourselved the "afterhours" LLL group. We were mostly the moms who had waited because the early 20-somethings couldn't afford to go or they had to work. I got to buy any cloth diaper I wanted and did I! :D

 

We weren't at the point in our lives where ANYTHING went but we were at the point in our lives where, "Honey, the baby has been crying ALL day. Can you just pick up Chinese and get me 100 crab rangoons??!" was ok. We were at the point where I got to make decisions on car seats based upon safety ratings, not cost. I loved that.

 

I watched a cousin have a baby when they had nothing and they aren't having nearly the fun we did by waiting.

 

On the other hand, they will be there for their kids when DH and I will have died on ours. My kids had better be prepared to be on their own in their 60s.

 

It's so flipping easy not to have a baby that I don't understand why reasonable people have babies they cannot afford. Obviously, a crime or a BC failure are different. But not all these "surprise" babies are BC failures or the pill's failure rate would be about 89%.

If we had waited, I would not have been able to have children. I had been struggling with fertility when we had our first child (then they just kept coming). I'm allergic to most forms of birth control and did not want to mess with the plumbing. I can say that only one or two of our children were actually "planned".

[MedicMom]

It is different for different people. I valued my childless, single 20s. I grew a great deal as a person through education, travel, volunteering and other things that are impossible now. I had my son at 28 and my daughter at 30, after being established in my career. Life is far easier for my family in many respects than my sister, who married her exhusband when they were very young with no jobs or education, and then added kids to the mix. Being financially stable has allowed me to give my kids stability, opportunity and an education that would be impossible if we struggled financially. I love surprise babies, but I know many people who had planned pregnancies while struggling to put food on the table and a roof over their heads. It is absolutely their choice, but I can't fathom the thought process.

[lovinmomma]

This is really something on my mind. I will go out on a limb here and risk being flamed, because it's something that I've been thinking about SO much.

I was married for 8 years in a horrible situation. I won't go into detail here, because it's not important. I had 3 kids with my ex husband when we divorced. Now, my middle school sweetheart is back in the picture. He would like to get married and have a child (he's never been married). He does NOT make much $ at all because he has no college. He DOES work full time.

I work FULL time at a pay that lots of my friends would wish they had. I have many friends that only make the minimum wage. However, still working full time I only make enough to cover my bills and sometimes not even that. Christmas is something that I can't afford. I qualify for food assistance.

My parents LOVE this man from middle school. He would come over to our house back then. However, they do NOT want me to marry him because he doesn't make enough $. Does how much he makes mean that we can't be together? If he wanted to have a child does that mean that we couldn't ever have children together? We both work full time. It's just not enough, and let me tell you it's not because we're irresponsible. I'm a couponer. We only buy what we need. I budget. Many of these thoughts weigh heavily on my shoulders.

This man is trying to get a higher paying job, but with the economy it's almost impossible. I'm currently in school to get a career that pays better than my current career.

 

ETA: I don't know if I will ever be able to have children again, for that matter. I have female issues that make getting pregnant very difficult. I had to have surgery to get pregnant with my first 3.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Here's another question: Why do some people who have the means to support a passel of children only have 1 or no children. Why don't they start having more babies, since they can clearly support them?

 

See, to me, that question makes just about as much sense as the original question.

[JenC3]

Sure I think it unwise to have kids you can't afford, but then again people make unwise decisions all the time, including me. Are they good parents despite being broke? I think the kids will be a testament as to whether or not it all worked out.

 

I could afford a slew of kids, but then I couldn't be a good mother if I was stuck in a looney bin somewhere;)

 

I'm pregnant so I NEED a cupcake NOW!

[Mommy22alyns]

OP, I have often wondered the same thing myself. I would NEVER breathe a word of it though. But we are in a very bad financial situation and it's been that way for a long time, and I wouldn't dream of having another right now. I feel like, FOR US, it would be irresponsible. But hey, people probably think we're irresponsible for continuing to homeschool and not "putting the kids in school so I can get a job," so whatever.

[mommaduck]

And the other thing I'll never understand is why anyone would WANT to. We waited until I was in my early 30s. And we had a BLAST. It wasn't that we were flush with cash but waiting until we weren't living paycheck to paycheck with $20 in the account made everything so much more relaxed.

 

For example, LLL meetings. Afterwards, a group of us liked going out to eat. So we did. We called ourselved the "afterhours" LLL group. We were mostly the moms who had waited because the early 20-somethings couldn't afford to go or they had to work. I got to buy any cloth diaper I wanted and did I! :D

 

We weren't at the point in our lives where ANYTHING went but we were at the point in our lives where, "Honey, the baby has been crying ALL day. Can you just pick up Chinese and get me 100 crab rangoons??!" was ok. We were at the point where I got to make decisions on car seats based upon safety ratings, not cost. I loved that.

 

I watched a cousin have a baby when they had nothing and they aren't having nearly the fun we did by waiting.

 

On the other hand, they will be there for their kids when DH and I will have died on ours. My kids had better be prepared to be on their own in their 60s.

 

It's so flipping easy not to have a baby that I don't understand why reasonable people have babies they cannot afford. Obviously, a crime or a BC failure are different. But not all these "surprise" babies are BC failures or the pill's failure rate would be about 89%.

Because some of us didn't grow up with a whole lot of extras and loved being home with our babies, without the extras, and could give a flip less about being part of some elite group that goes out to lunch after every LLL meeting. With my first, I had the bible for nursing mothers (from LLL, used), prefolds and flats (there were no other kinds back then), ate "gulosh", traded my neighbour pies in exchange for the rhubarb from his garden to make them with (his recipe, two pies, one for him and one for us), and did my laundry in the bathtub and hung in the yard to dry. I will never forget that time and would never trade it. A year later we lived well. We've had our ups and downs. Waiting is no guarantee of anything. Economies crash, people get sick and die, my family was about family, not about extras. My kids are not as spoiled as many people's kids. I'll take that as a plus.

[nmoira]

[internal dialog] Hmmm, how can I contribute to the general holiday spirit, especially in a year in which so many families are hurting? I think I'll start yet another thread judging people who are hurting, or who if they could only realize it, should be hurting.

 

Or I could just say "Humbug," and have done with it.

 

Humbug.

[clarkacademy]

This question goes along with so many others

 

If you have a disabled child and your chances of another one happening why are you having more?

Why do disabled mothers keep having babies?

Why do drug addicts keep having babies?

Why are teenagers allowed to keep their babies?

Why do child molesters get to raise their own kids?

Why is anyone here having babies? I mean by alot of other peoples standards middle class is not fit to have babies. Can you put all your kids through college with no help at all? Can you be utterly sure of this at birth? I mean asking that question opens up a whole world of questions. I think the most important one being if a child is living in a good home with parents who love it what right do you have to judge or even question that fact? Your tax dollars also buy Obama vacations and Armani suits are those needed? Does his wife need a dress that costs thousands of dollars?

 

Do his kids need their educations totally funded from here on out? Your tax dollars pay alot that is not needed at all I think you should concentrate on that. I think child abusers and such are the ones that should not be allowed to have kids. I think alot of people should stop the questioning of others and look in the mirror and ask, How can I make the world better?

[Hannah]

Offended is an understatement.

 

Hand me a cupcake for one hand and a bottle of vodka for the other? Because if I lived by the idea that I should only have kids when I was financially capable, I'd have none and only be getting pregnant in my late 30s. And even then I'd have to give 5 of them back.

 

Better get used to it, OP because the economy is in the crapper and the birthrates are the lowest they've ever been, so apparently most people think like you do. But someone has to have hope for the future and have kids to pay for your SS in your old age.

 

 

I apologize for offending you.

 

Your thinking is just very different from my own. I don't have any expectations for SS or that anyone else should take care of me. I know that I have to save for and provide for my own retirement. Here government old age grants are currently only US$ 180 per month, so it won't get us very far anyway (a basket of food costs the same as in the USA). ETA: And the only other grants are for disability, foster and child support which are just as low - unemployment only lasts 3 months and only if you'd paid into the insurance while working.

 

I can understand that situations change and that people find themselves in difficult times, but I do live by the idea that I should only have kids that I will reasonably be able to provide for myself - because I'm the one who is responsible for them.

If we needed it, my relatives who could would step in to help us, but I don't make decisions with the expectation that they or anyone else will foot the bill for my choices.

[milovany]

When I got pregnant with our sixth (and we were living in a should-be-condemned house because we were offered it for free and that's all we could afford at the time), a dear, sweet 80+ year old lady from church told me something like this when she heard the news: "The world can always use more babies, that's what I always say." I could have kissed her. We have seven now, and are doing much better financially.

 

The reason we keep having babies is because they're a blessing and we heard numerous people my parents' age say, "We wish we would have had more." Money situations change (both ways) and aren't reliable. We could go broke again. C'est la vie. The love and joy of having, and being part of, a family is a constant that can provide untold wealth.

[Mrs Mungo]

My dh and I married soon after he graduated college. We had our eldest dd when I was 23. Getting married young doesn't mean you never get to travel, get an education or have nice things. Dh and I are both educated. Dh has had a decent paying job the entire time we've been married. We lived overseas for 5 years and have traveled extensively. It was *easy* to put a toddler in a backpack, a baby in a sling and get on the train. Traveling wasn't impossible for us at all. But, we wanted to travel, we love to travel, and that was a factor in our decision-making about his job and our lifestyle. Volunteering wasn't impossible. I have had more volunteer jobs than I can count over the years. Some of my kids received the Presidential Service Award last year because our family is dedicated to serving others. We serve together now.

 

BUT, I also know an education and good job do no guarantee a successful life. There is no guarantee of keeping that job. There is no guarantee of both spouses making it to old age. There is no guarantee that one spouse will not become debilitated through illness or injury.

 

Do I think things like education, a stable relationship and a decent job are wise things to have in place before you have kids? Yes. But, doing those things and having your life turn out well? That's great, but it is never just because you ticked those boxes. It is exactly like trying to come up with a 5 point plan of how to pick a good spouse. Will it lead to a successful marriage all of the time? No, because you cannot predict the future and what it will bring.

[Crimson Wife]

If you were the person supporting family, would you feel that you had a right to an opponion on their reproductive choices?

 

No. If you don't like how they are behaving, then just stop providing the financial support. They are adults- let them figure out how to manage their own lives.

[butterflymommy]

I could make a few generalizations, some true to whatever degree.

 

Some people don't believe in birth control on principle.

 

For some poor people having children is the only joy or gift they'll ever receive.

 

And I do think for some women, they think the baby will "hook" the guy a little deeper and then she'll be living a fairy tale romance. It's a strong delusion that plays out over and over again.

[Mrs Mungo]

And by the reasoning that you can go out to eat more and travel more, if you aren't wasting money on starting a family...well, why would you ever start a family with that mentality? Why not do whatever you want for your whole life?

[Elizabeth in MN]

If you were the person supporting family, would you feel that you had a right to an opponion on their reproductive choices?

 

No. A gift is a gift, there should be no strings attached.

 

Now where are my cupcake pasties!

[nmoira]

Now where are my cupcake pasties!

 

[mommaduck]

I apologize for offending you.

 

Your thinking is just very different from my own. I don't have any expectations for SS or that anyone else should take care of me. I know that I have to save for and provide for my own retirement. Here government old age grants are currently only US$ 180 per month, so it won't get us very far anyway (a basket of food costs the same as in the USA).

 

I can understand that situations change and that people find themselves in difficult times, but I do live by the idea that I should only have kids that I will reasonably be able to provide for myself - because I'm the one who is responsible for them.

If we needed it, my relatives who could would step in to help us, but I don't make decisions with the expectation that they or anyone else will foot the bill for my choices.

See, I was raised with the thinking that family is supposed to help one another (and some areas, neighbours and churches help one another in a variety of ways...we've been on the giving and receiving ends), and that parents care for children when they can't care for themselves and children (grown) care for parents when they can no longer care for themselves. Most of my grandparents and greatgrandparents (etc) died at home with one or more children seeing to their care. Nursing homes are horrible places in most places I've lived (I've only seen two decent ones...the rest I wouldn't send a dog to die in and are death sentences in and of themselves). Yes, I expect that at least one or more of my children will care for me in my old age or at least make sure I'm doing okay and not sentence me to a living death inside a nursing home. I have babysat people with alzheimers as respite care for friends that cared for their parents. My husband's uncle has recently been diagnosed and he is YOUNG! (50's). I will probably move near to help his daughter out with her child and her parents and she will be a help to me and my children. That's what we do for one another. A friend is currently helping my family out as we get back on our feet. I've driven to help her out when needed as well. Much of the first world has lost the concept of "community". It's something I would like to see us get back to and we could actually learn from those that have less.

[Hwin]

I get judgy when it comes not wanting to work and support the kids -- don't care so much about the number of children being supported. I think work ethic is important, and something that should be modeled to children. Kind of hard if you are playing video games instead of out looking for a job. I realize that in this economy, there are many people who have a work ethic and no job. (Some people with jobs and no work ethic). I'm just saying that, when I encounter this sort of attitude, I have a hard time keeping my thoughts to myself. Usually the confounded look on my face speaks for itself.

 

SIL: "Well, we're just both going to quit our jobs and the four of us will go to college and live on the loans and grants. They give you a lot of money."

Me: "You know you have to pay the loans back, right?"

SIL: "Yeah, but that's a long way out."

Me: Eyebrow raises.

SIL: "A really long way out."

Me: Eyebrow raises higher.

SIL: *actively motioning with arms to indicate just how far away the repayment date is* "WAY OUT!"

 

We had this conversation while they were living with us temporarily after being evicted. Let's get evicted and then quit our jobs?? While living off of a family who is paycheck to paycheck. WHAT?

 

So the attitude is out there and I think people who have a negative view of having kids while on assistance have probably been jaded by it.

[milovany]

And by the reasoning that you can go out to eat more and travel more, if you aren't wasting money on starting a family...well, why would you ever start a family with that mentality? Why not do whatever you want for your whole life?

 

I had a cousin who did choose this with his wife. "No babies because we want to enjoy each other and don't want to be tied down." He got cancer and died five years ago. I'm guessing (although I fully admit, I don't know this for sure) that they regretted their decision in the end.

[lovinmomma]

I get judgy when it comes not wanting to work and support the kids -- don't care so much about the number of children being supported. I think work ethic is important, and something that should be modeled to children. Kind of hard if you are playing video games instead of out looking for a job. I realize that in this economy, there are many people who have a work ethic and no job. (Some people with jobs and no work ethic). I'm just saying that, when I encounter this sort of attitude, I have a hard time keeping my thoughts to myself. Usually the confounded look on my face speaks for itself.

 

SIL: "Well, we're just both going to quit our jobs and the four of us will go to college and live on the loans and grants. They give you a lot of money."

Me: "You know you have to pay the loans back, right?"

SIL: "Yeah, but that's a long way out."

Me: Eyebrow raises.

SIL: "A really long way out."

Me: Eyebrow raises higher.

SIL: *actively motioning with arms to indicate just how far away the repayment date is* "WAY OUT!"

 

We had this conversation while they were living with us temporarily after being evicted. Let's get evicted and then quit our jobs?? While living off of a family who is paycheck to paycheck. WHAT?

 

So the attitude is out there and I think people who have a negative view of having kids while on assistance have probably been jaded by it.

 

To the bolded... but what if they ARE working. Both. And that just isn't enough. Does that mean that those people then are not allowed to ever have the joys of having children?

[lovinmomma]

 

To the bolded... but what if they ARE working. Both. And that just isn't enough. Does that mean that those people then are not allowed to ever have the joys of having children?

 

And I quoted you, but it was more of a general question. Nothing personal towards you.

[Mrs Mungo]

 

 

I had a cousin who did choose this with his wife. "No babies because we want to enjoy each other and don't want to be tied down." He got cancer and died five years ago. I'm guessing (although I fully admit, I don't know this for sure) that they regretted their decision in the end.

 

 

Oh, I know some rabidly child-free folks like this too. But, I was truly curious why someone with that mentality eventually would choose to have kids. The reasons are probably the same as other people who have kids at any stage of life.

[Hwin]

 

To the bolded... but what if they ARE working. Both. And that just isn't enough. Does that mean that those people then are not allowed to ever have the joys of having children?

 

 

No. Nothing like that. It was a vent about people who aren't willing to work/look for work, and not so much about them having children :)