What did college give you (beyond the degree)?

[Ginevra]

I was having a little debate with a friend who is toying with going to college at 42. DF has a hard time appreciating that college has intrinsic value beyond the "piece of paper." I find it amusing in a way, because that was exactly me for all those years before I started going to college 2 years ago. Whenever I dismissed my own notions of going to college, I used the "just a piece of paper" argument.

 

I think trying to describe the value of college to someone who doesn't get it is like trying to describe falling in love to someone who hasn't experienced it. :001_smile: What do you think college brought you, other than a "piece of paper" and a better job/marketability? :bigear:

[Pegasus]

1. A husband.

2. Friends that I still have.

3. A better appreciation for people who are different from me.

4. Clarification that the narrow-mindedness of high school is not the real world.

5. Work ethic and ability to juggle multiple responsibilities.

 

Many more but those immediately come to mind.

[Sara in AZ]

Relevant and invaluable training in my chosen profession (piano pedagogy.)

 

Contacts in the community related to my chosen profession (students and professional organizations and opportunities.)

 

In addition to other things, these stand out in my mind. Also, I found that my undergrad work led to graduate work and opportunities that I would never have imagined when I was first starting out as a freshman.

[jujsky]

Debt.

 

Not to sound negative, but seriously, the only thing I got out of college besides the piece of paper was a mountain of debt that was darn near impossible to pay off with a teaching degree. I didn't have a lot of friends in college because to maintain the GPA I needed to keep my few scholarships, I had to study ALL the time.

[Crimson Wife]

A social network that has been very useful, and a M.R.S. ;)

[mellifera33]

Cynicism and student loan debt.

[EKS]

Passion for science. A chance to grow up in a semi sheltered environment. An intense and memorable experience.

 

I loved my college experience and I hope my boys love theirs as much.

[Joyofsixreboot]

Hmmm, a diseased liver?:001_huh: seriously, college was mostly about the piece of paper. My friends are mostly from high school or people I have met through my kids. College felt like a hoop to get through so I could live my life.

[jennynd]

A job :D

A husband. We were in the same math class

A global view of world

I am a engineer so the degree is quite important

[Karen in CO]

A broader view of the world and a deep understanding of the science and philosophy behind my chosen career that has helped me to find a path with confidence in a rapidly changing industry. And of course the piece of paper is super important for getting that job in the first place.

[Tarreymere]

1. A husband.

2. Friends that I still have.

3. A better appreciation for people who are different from me.

4. Clarification that the narrow-mindedness of high school is not the real world.

5. Work ethic and ability to juggle multiple responsibilities.

 

Many more but those immediately come to mind.

 

Most of those are just from growing up, not necessarily college. I did my growing up in the Army.

 

College for me in my late twenties and early thirties really was just about jumping through the hoops and getting that piece of paper. Good thing I found a job in my major, because I was also pretty far in debt with student loans to pay for that piece of paper. You know what I really learned? That people who have that piece of paper are no better and no smarter than anyone else. I learned that I read better books on my own than I was assigned to read in college, and that I already had friends who also read interesting books and were more capable of discussing them intelligently than the kids in my classes on campus. I also learned that a good number of the students who came in right out of high school and had parents who picked up the tab seemed to think that going to college really did make them smarter and better than every one else.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Rainefox

[freeindeed]

1. A husband.

2. Friends that I still have.

3. A better appreciation for people who are different from me.

4. Clarification that the narrow-mindedness of high school is not the real world.

5. Work ethic and ability to juggle multiple responsibilities.

 

Many more but those immediately come to mind.

 

:iagree:

Also, the intrinsic reward of grasping difficult concepts.

And the awesome experience of learning just for the sake of learning.:)

[regentrude]

An education in an exciting field which I could not have attained through self study. I am a physicist with a PhD in theoretical physics.

Like minded people who shared the interest in this field.

Friends for life.

My husband (we were class mates since our first semester)

 

and, of course, the degree that I need to have the job I love. And by degree I do not mean just the piece of paper, but the actual subject expertise behind it.

 

ETA: because I was reminded by another post: college gave me the skill to really learn - something I had not acquired in high school because even our good high school was not really challenging.

Edited September 1, 2012 by regentrude

[jhschool]

It gave me a big-picture, systems approach to all problems and all situations.

I have the confidence that I can approach anything, analyze the situation, and decide whether I can get in there and make things work--or create a complex or a simple system to make things work, or whether I cannot.

I am an engineer who ended up being a stay-at-home-mom. Couldn't be happier.

I became much smarter than I was in high school.

I learned really cool stuff.

I also learned that I don't want to work

in engineering even though it is super

cool and interesting. I learned there that languages are my true love.

It gave me the confidence to pursue

my passion for languages now that I am

an actual grownup with time (and DH

supports me, so I can do what I want--God

is good to me).

Anyway, without the college I would be

a dunce.

Never have needed the piece of paper.

I am very glad I went.

 

My parents didn't pick up the tab but college did

make me much smarter. I continued loving math

and learning. I did really well in math. I don't know

where I could have learned all the really amazing stuff

I know now.

I also took some very nice French Literature classes

that taught me so much. I took Russian, and 4 years

of German. The last year I took two German Lit classes

that were really great. I also took a Spanish Lit class that

allowed me to meet Isabel Allende.

And in my main degree, the engineering classes--separations processes, chemical

reactor design, advanced polymers--they were really wonderful.

Even though my true passion ended up being languages, the

engineering education I received was really fun and rewarding.

I wouldn't skip college.

Edited September 1, 2012 by jhschool

[Pegasus]

Most of those are just from growing up, not necessarily college. I did my growing up in the Army.

 

 

Oh yes, I definitely agree. I just happened to finish growing up in college. ;)

[black_midori]

I think trying to describe the value of college to someone who doesn't get it is like trying to describe falling in love to someone who hasn't experienced it. :001_smile: What do you think college brought you, other than a "piece of paper" and a better job/marketability? :bigear:

 

 

College gave me... a piece of paper that allowed me to get a job in accounting, which allowed me to actually learn accounting. Nothing more that I can think of. Waste of time and money unless you actually need that piece of paper (which I did). If I hadn't gone to college and gotten the piece of paper, I would have been fully capable of learning the job anyway (but likely wouldn't have been given the opportunity to do it as more than a glorified bookkeeper instead of a CPA).

 

So, honestly - if your friend needs a piece of paper in order to pursue his job then he should go for it. If not, I wouldn't bother. Pick what you want to do and go get on-the-job training from someone who knows what they are doing - that will teach you far more, far quicker for most work.

[Guest]

Most of those are just from growing up, not necessarily college. I did my growing up in the Army.

 

College for me in my late twenties and early thirties really was just about jumping through the hoops and getting that piece of paper. Good thing I found a job in my major, because I was also pretty far in debt with student loans to pay for that piece of paper.

 

See, now I find that to be an interesting assessment, because I "grew up" before I went to college, but I still feel in agreement with 3,4 and 5. IOW, I thought I had a broad understanding of people, but it has been broadened by going to college. I thought I had a strong work ethic and ability to juggle responsibilities, but that has been heightened by going to college.

 

Although, clearly, the Army could have the same effect. :001_smile:

[Guest]

So, honestly - if your friend needs a piece of paper in order to pursue his job then he should go for it. If not, I wouldn't bother. Pick what you want to do and go get on-the-job training from someone who knows what they are doing - that will teach you far more, far quicker for most work.

 

My friend has a good, well-paying job, without a degree, but has been told that his future prospects are not so good unless he does now go to college. So, he can secure work without getting the degree and he he can also ride his current job for as long as they let him get by as-is, but if he goes for the degree, he has growth potential and security for the future. He can't decide if the trade is worth it.

 

I'm surprised that anyone who did complete college would feel as you do, though, but I appreciate your honest assessment.

[jennynd]

Will his employee support him to go to college? He might want to check. All 3 company I have worked have program support employee go back to school. Time and money

[regentrude]

I also learned that a good number of the students who came in right out of high school and had parents who picked up the tab seemed to think that going to college really did make them smarter and better than every one else.

 

I don't know about better- but absolutely, college did make me smarter. I learned a lot of really cool stuff I could never have taught myself, like quantum mechanics and partial differential equations.

I am sorry your college experience was not particularly educational.

[Mergath]

College taught me how to learn. Not just how to memorize a few facts long enough to take a test, but how to internalize new ideas and use them. It also taught me the value of having a good intellecual discussion with people of differening ideas. And it gave me more self-confidence in my own abilities, because I had to delve into subjects I wouldn't have thought I could study on my own.

[Karen in CO]

I don't know about better- but absolutely, college did make me smarter. I learned a lot of really cool stuff I could never have taught myself, like quantum mechanics and partial differential equations.

I am sorry your college experience was not particularly educational.

:lol: I learned that I didn't want to be a physicist after I took differential equations and before I got to quantum mechanics. I switched to computer science and happily learned a lot more set theory, how to program a Fourier transform, and how to make computers usable by people without degrees in computer science.

[Nestof3]

I became a Christian there.

 

I made so many great friendships. Some of my happiest days were there.

 

I loved so many of my professors. I still keep in touch with one.

 

I fell deeply in love twice. Truly, I don't think that experience ever fades. I still correspond with one as we were best friends for five years. He has a lively family, and my dh really likes him. He visited us this past winter.

 

I cried when I took dh there to show him the mountains I never planned to leave. I attended VA Tech.

[Mom22ns]

1. A husband.

2. Friends that I still have.

3. A better appreciation for people who are different from me.

4. Clarification that the narrow-mindedness of high school is not the real world.

5. Work ethic and ability to juggle multiple responsibilities.

 

Many more but those immediately come to mind.

 

:iagree:

 

This would be my list too. I would add:

6. A stronger sense of self.

[wintermom]

I really believe that a university education is a very valuable thing, and just like so many other things in life, the more you put into it, the more you get out of it. Also, it pays to choose a program wisely, and switch programs if the original one isn't a good fit.

 

My undergrad program was good, but I REALLY learned how to dig deeper and actually write clearly in graduate school. I completed a Master's degree with thesis, and it was an excellent learning opportunity on so many levels. I have no interest or need to go on to a Ph.D. at this point in my life. It would be way more fun to do an open concept type of university program where I could hand-pick courses from any faculty, and not worry about a piece of paper at the end.

 

Specifically to the OP question, that piece of paper is just a starting point in one's career (certainly for young adults, perhaps less so for people later on in their working careers). It's like an entrance fee to getting in the door to a vast number of employment opportunities. Without it, you've just closed the door on all those jobs. There are lots of other opportunities out there, and you can get those with that little "piece of paper" as well. It can never be taken away from you, either.

Edited September 1, 2012 by wintermom

[VeganCupcake]

The first things that come to mind are skills in critical reading and better writing through having a few particularly good professors who mentored me.

 

There was also guided exposure to difficult literary works that I probably would not have tackled on my own, particularly at that age. Well, or ever, really.

 

ETA: Oh, and my master's thesis--I learned how to plan and conduct an academic research study, run statistics on my findings, and analyze statistics with an awareness of their limitations (this is something I should brush up on). The thesis was an extremely difficult, but very worthwhile, experience.

Edited September 1, 2012 by VeganCupcake

[black_midori]

My friend has a good, well-paying job, without a degree, but has been told that his future prospects are not so good unless he does now go to college. So, he can secure work without getting the degree and he he can also ride his current job for as long as they let him get by as-is, but if he goes for the degree, he has growth potential and security for the future. He can't decide if the trade is worth it.

 

I'm surprised that anyone who did complete college would feel as you do, though, but I appreciate your honest assessment.

 

In his case, I'd probably do a long lazy online college experience - just do a few courses at a time over an extended number of years, most likely in an online college for convenience, for the main purpose of getting a piece of paper to show off to the people in charge so they know he's ready to move up. If he is already doing well then they KNOW that he can do the work - the people in charge know he doesn't truly need that degree to progress, they just feel a social or business obligation to require it IMO.

 

Amusingly enough, I'm surprised at how many people actually DO seem to feel there is a whole "college experience" thing that fills some inner hole. :)

 

I am perfectly content with my life - I have a fantastic family, a bunch of great friends, and a good job with good hours and good pay. I 100% believe that if I had not gone to college I would still have all of those things (except the job, which I firmly believe I would have had the skills for given training but would not have been allowed to do without the piece of paper). I made no worthwhile contacts or unforgettable friends while in 4 years of college - I was too busy working, dating my dh (met at a party completely unrelated to college), hanging out with my roommate/best friend (from pre-college), and passing my full load of college classes with honors.

 

I'm sure that college CAN be a worthwhile experience for some people. Maybe if you don't know what to do with your life? Maybe if you need more time to grow up? Maybe if you have an end-goal that requires extensive educational requirements or access to high-end equipment that can't easily be obtained anywhere else? I just think you have to know exactly what you want to get out of it and then decide if it can actually meet those needs.

 

For me - I wanted to get a degree out of it and that's what I got. Yay! Perhaps I didn't get anything else out of it because I didn't want to get anything else. :)

[DawnM]

I worked in my career for almost 17 years. I plan to go back to it at some point in the future. In order to work in my field I need an M.A.

 

I don't regret college or grad school for one minute.

 

DH has an M.A. as well and could not have gotten into his career without it.

 

Let's see.....my grandfather was a professor. Yup, needed college and beyond. Grandmother was a nurse. She had a 4 year degree. My father is a surgeon. It was a little important that he have a college degree.

 

Most of my Dad's side of the family went into either medicine or education. Dad's brothers are either professors or doctors. They married mostly teachers, and their children became mostly doctors, nurses, teachers (or other educators), or Veterinarians.

 

Education is VERY important in my family and college was not an option, it was expected.

[Guest]

Will his employee support him to go to college? He might want to check. All 3 company I have worked have program support employee go back to school. Time and money

 

Yes, they will pay for his schooling if he majors in the applicable field.

 

In his case, I'd probably do a long lazy online college experience - just do a few courses at a time over an extended number of years, most likely in an online college for convenience, for the main purpose of getting a piece of paper to show off to the people in charge so they know he's ready to move up. If he is already doing well then they KNOW that he can do the work - the people in charge know he doesn't truly need that degree to progress, they just feel a social or business obligation to require it IMO.

 

This is probably a good recommendation for him and I will mention it to him.

[Guest]

The first things that come to mind are skills in critical reading and better writing through having a few particularly good professors who mentored me.

 

There was also guided exposure to difficult literary works that I probably would not have tackled on my own, particularly at that age. Well, or ever, really.

 

ETA: Oh, and my master's thesis--I learned how to plan and conduct an academic research study, run statistics on my findings, and analyze statistics with an awareness of their limitations (this is something I should brush up on). The thesis was an extremely difficult, but very worthwhile, experience.

 

That is one thing I love about college, too, but I would rephrase it by saying just plain difficult assignments that I would not have tackled on my own. I love the challenge of getting a hard assignment to research something I wouldn't have before, and the strong, competent feeling it gives me when I've mastered that hard assignment.

 

In one class, I had to locate a business and fully research what it would take to open that business in my expected location. It was hard and a lot of work, but when I drive by the place where "my" restaurant was going to be, I still smile at the thought. I still imagine The Green Plate restaurant at that location and it makes me happy that we (my group and I) conceived of this entire business ourselves, even though it doesn't exist IRL.

[Jane in NC]

To the OP:

 

I think you mght really enjoy reading this blog post. Sharon Astyk begins by examining 19th century text books, but this leads to a discussion later in the post of the value of education, in particular the value of the traditional liberal arts education. Her thoughts resonate with me.

 

While I am firm believer in self education, I do see limits to autodidactism. As Regentrude noted, there are certain subjects that many of us cannot conquer on our own. Or even if we could, we would have missed the insight and nuance that scholars in the fields bring. Compare this to reading Hamlet and seeing a production. There is something to be gained from both. There is something to be gained by reading a math text--another to hear a lecture on a particular theorem.

 

Perhaps this is why some of us who are no longer in college adore listening to Teaching Company lectures?

Edited September 1, 2012 by Jane in NC

[Donna]

Training in my career choice (PT) and debt.

[Mama Geek]

It is like most things, you get out of it what you put into it. I wouldn't have had a 10+ year career without the engineering degree. There were lots of concepts in the upper level classes that really stretched what I knew and how I understood things. It also taught me that when I failed something to pick myself up and try again. There was 1 class that I failed even thought I tried all that I could to pass. I retook it the next semester with a different professor. It was really amazing how much of it I had picked up the first time through and it made the second time through much easier. Also it was at that time that I started to see that the same concepts were used in very different areas. Fluid dynamics and thermodynamics are not all that different. If you understand the concepts in one the concepts in the other come much easier.

 

I did have a hugh amount of learning to do after I graduated, but I had the foundations in place. It was also in college that I figured out that I really liked math and that Calculus was just something that came easy to me. That was thanks to a great teacher my freshman year.

[FaithManor]

An education in an exciting field which I could not have attained through self study. I am a physicist with a PhD in theoretical physics.

Like minded people who shared the interest in this field.

Friends for life.

My husband (we were class mates since our first semester)

 

and, of course, the degree that I need to have the job I love. And by degree I do not mean just the piece of paper, but the actual subject expertise behind it.

 

ETA: because I was reminded by another post: college gave me the skill to really learn - something I had not acquired in high school because even our good high school was not really challenging.

 

 

I agree with ALL of this. However, I'm not a physicist but a professional pianist who learned so much more than I could ever have from "self-instruction". There reaches a place at which being able to read a manual or textbook just simply isn't enough. I would NEVER be the pianist that I ended up becoming without the expertise and wisdom of that very tough music faculty that helped shape me.

 

I was also intellectually challenged for the very first time. My K-12 experience was sooooo pitifully easy that I'd come to the conclusion that nothing required work to learn. I was on independent study for ALL of my subjects in high school and graduated with 28 credits in 2.5 years. So, I had this image that there just wasn't anything too challenging out there. I was wrong, and it was very good for me to find that out.

 

During my sophomore year, I was able to participate in a master class with Ian Hobson - concert pianist and world reknowned expert in the interpretation of Rachmaninoff and Mozart with special knowledge of some of the more obscure composers such as Johann Nepomuk Hummel. That was a once in a life time opportunity and I have maintained that connection with Mr. Hobson since then.

 

In college, I discovered that I truly ADORE teaching and that was something that I would have told you at 16.5 when I entered school, that there was no chance in Hades that I'd ever do! So, I found out a lot about myself and the great thing was, by being forced to participate in the piano pedagogy program (all piano performance majors were required to teach through the college's community music outreach program) from the beginning, I had a chance to add piano pedagogy classes to my schedule and finish a music education/instrumental degree. The music ed degree has been the most valuable to me over the years.

 

I met DH there so that was especially sweet! :001_smile:

 

One of the most important things for DH, aside from meeting me :D, was the internship he completed at Aeroquip Corporation. This is something he could not have gotten on his own as a high school graduate. The glowing recommendation he received from management set him up for his first job post-college. That job, while not a huge "money maker" provided us with health benefits, enough salary to rent a modest, but decent home, and paid for all of our necessities and an occasional want. That's not too shabby for a first job!

 

However, I do acknowledge that college is definitely not for everyone and many people do not have the experiences we had. There are too many factors involved in the process of determining if college itself is a good fit, which college would be a good fit, what program should be pursued, etc. in order to make any general statements that apply to all students. Everyone has to wrestle with those decisions. Therefore, I am no fan of "college for all" and by the same token I have a very difficult time with people who try to cram "college is a waste of time" or "only about the paper" or similar sentiments down others' throats.

 

As a general rule, these are good "pass the bean dip" moments. It is not a topic worth arguing about with a friend. OP, you will not likely convinced her to change her mind and she isn't likely to get you to change yours. So, don't engage in the conversation.

 

Faith

[Pippen]

College gave me a chance to be independent, but with a framework in place that provided direction and goals.

 

It gave me five years of age and maturity that were necessary to become a high school teacher.

 

It opened the doors to a job and friends in the future. I didn't really think of it before, but all of my close friends have college degrees. One of them happens to be a former student.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Pippen

[Lolly]

Well, I had fun. I met dh. I got a piece of paper that allowed me to take a test that allowed me to get a job. Ummmm....that's pretty much it.

 

I think in some fields college is needed. There are actually fairly few of those. I think more could be learned with an apprenticeship for most careers. In the case of your friend who is already in his chosen field. It is most likely going to be a piece of paper.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I had a fabulous college experience that I wouldn't trade for the world. I met inspirational professors, travelled through their extra-murals program, made lifelong friends, broadened my world view, learned a whole heck of a lot, heard interesting lectures from various visiting speakers.

 

I ended up with debt, too, but I feel it was totally worth it.

[Danestress]

I can tell you all the things that made college a life-changing, life-enhancing experience, but someone will come on and say, "I had all those things without college." Which is true.

 

Intelligent, creative, focused people make the most of whatever experiences they have and come out the better for them.

 

I can tell you why marriage has been an amazing part of my life that has grown me up and made me a better person, and then someone will come on and say, "Well, I never married, and I am still a grown up and I think I am a good person." And of course she will be right. Marriage is not the only way to grow emotionally. It's just one opportunity for growth that some people take and others don't.

 

Same with travel. If you asked me about formative experiences of my youth, I would include backpacking solo all over China and Japan when I was 19. I could tell you all the ways that experience was valuable, but I would never say that unless you also had that experience, you are bereft.

 

College was a great part of my life. I gained so many things. If I hadn't gone to college, I would have gained those things other ways, or maybe gained different things. So I would never say, "Unless you go to college you won't have XYZ." Other than a degree. But I could still make a great case for why someone might want to consider college, just as I could make a great case for why they should travel when they are young, build something with their own hands, volunteer to work with disadvantaged youth, etc. These are all things that have been great for me. None of them is mandatory for someone else, but that doesn't mean they aren't great opportunities.

 

College, of course, is expensive. SO one has to weigh that. And I would imagine that the experience of taking a few online classes at a time while online is very different from the experience of going away at 18, living in a dorm, and being a full time student. I am not sure what advantages college might bring for your friend.

[Entropymama]

My two cents:

 

I went to college right out of high school for two years and loved it. I felt independent, met great people, all the 'intangibles' people have mentioned. I stopped after my AA to get married and move, ended up having kids, haven't gone back. (My degree was paid for by scholarships)

 

DH also started after high school but because he had to work he went part time. He did classes at a B&M college, then switched to online. After six years and $20,000 he still hadn't finished and quit because it was too much with our growing family. Plus he'd already gotten the job he wanted, and they didn't care about the degree. He has since changed jobs and his work history has stood in stead for the degree.

 

DH didn't get any intangibles from his college experience, just stress and debt. I think the intangibles are really more from your first few years of adulthood than where you spend them. If you're already an adult, I wouldn't go back for those, or to fill some hole in yourself. OTOH I'd like to be a school administrator (or something) eventually, so I'll go back to finish the degree I need to do that. So if you need the piece of paper to do what you want to do, go for it.

[NotSoObvious]

1. A husband.

2. Friends that I still have.

3. A better appreciation for people who are different from me.

4. Clarification that the narrow-mindedness of high school is not the real world.

5. Work ethic and ability to juggle multiple responsibilities.

 

Many more but those immediately come to mind.

 

:iagree:Ditto. Also...

6 weeks in Switzerland with my husband for a whopping $1,4000 thanks to study abroad. That's an experience we will never have again.

Time to practice being an adult before we had real jobs and bills. I think we are better with our money because of our practice run.

[EKS]

College, of course, is expensive. SO one has to weigh that.

 

Of course, for many of us in our 40s and older who went to state schools, college cost less than $1000/year (not including books and living expenses).

[mytwomonkeys]

i did get a job with my B.S., but the real value was just in the accomplishment of getting my degree. i worked very hard in college & for me, it was a very personal journey. i exceeded my own expectations then, and for the first time in my life was my own cheerleader. i proved to myself many times that i could overcome the seemingly impossible. so for *me*, the value was in finishing what i started.:)

[gardenmom5]

my husband said the thing he learned the most out of his mba program was prioritizing. nothing in a particular class - just more assignements than were humanly possible. and if you think about it, that's life. there's always more to do than time so we have to choose what we do.

[Guest]

I agree with ALL of this. However, I'm not a physicist but a professional pianist who learned so much more than I could ever have from "self-instruction". There reaches a place at which being able to read a manual or textbook just simply isn't enough. I would NEVER be the pianist that I ended up becoming without the expertise and wisdom of that very tough music faculty that helped shape me.

 

<snip>

However, I do acknowledge that college is definitely not for everyone and many people do not have the experiences we had. There are too many factors involved in the process of determining if college itself is a good fit, which college would be a good fit, what program should be pursued, etc. in order to make any general statements that apply to all students. Everyone has to wrestle with those decisions. Therefore, I am no fan of "college for all" and by the same token I have a very difficult time with people who try to cram "college is a waste of time" or "only about the paper" or similar sentiments down others' throats.

 

As a general rule, these are good "pass the bean dip" moments. It is not a topic worth arguing about with a friend. OP, you will not likely convinced her to change her mind and she isn't likely to get you to change yours. So, don't engage in the conversation.

 

Faith

 

I agree with the bolded statements you made. The last part - the friend is not arguing per se, he (it's a guy) is debating it within himself and asked opinions of others. I think there is a part of him that would really like to accomplish it, but he also wonders if it's practical or worthwhile. He works FT, so obviously the time commitment will reduce the amount of time he has non-working to do what he likes. That is the debate for him - is it worth it.

 

I can tell you all the things that made college a life-changing, life-enhancing experience, but someone will come on and say, "I had all those things without college." Which is true.

Intelligent, creative, focused people make the most of whatever experiences they have and come out the better for them.

 

 

Yes, that is a good point.

[kroe1]

An identity

A paycheck

:)

[I talk to the trees]

Cynicism and student loan debt.

 

You are not alone! ;)

[Heather in Neverland]

Hmmm, a diseased liver?:001_huh: seriously, college was mostly about the piece of paper. My friends are mostly from high school or people I have met through my kids. College felt like a hoop to get through so I could live my life.

 

:iagree:

 

Yep. Speaking of my undergrad years, I partied A LOT, racked up a mountain of student loans, etc. I had a great time, don't get me wrong. But it wasn't this life-changing experience. I got my degree, started working, got my grad degree so I could get better pay. Nothing fabulous about it. That was all in the early 90s.

 

Last year I finished my second masters degree which I did online. It was a much better experience educationally speaking. I am more mature and studying for a different reason (yes, it was a "just because I want to" degree).

 

But I am practical person anyways and not really the type to wax philosophical about it.

 

 

 

.

[IsabelC]

Met my husband (I know, cliche).

[kalanamak]

A few years before he died, my dad, who went to college in the 30s and ended up a college professor, told me that the point of the first 4 years of college was to give a person a broad enough understanding of the world to reliably evaluate information and sort what is likely from what is unlikely; to be hard to trick; to be a good conversationalist; to start the mind down the path of adult thought.

 

This worked for my family. I don't assume it works for everyone.

[KidsHappen]

Student loans and a sense of accomplishment.