CC - My church is ultra pro-public schooling

[bethben]

Why are you homeschooling as a Christian? I am homeschooling my children so that they can retain their innocence as long as possible and have a Christ centered worldview. I want them to understand history and science from a Christian perspective first before they get bombarded with secular teachings (of which there are a lot in our liberal small town). Now that I have a son going into those junior high years, my church is making me wonder if we are making the right choice. The church is very much "bring Jesus to the world" kind of church. That's fine - I have absolutely no problem with that.

 

BUT, when they talk about the youth group bringing Jesus to the world it is always in the context of "mission field of their high school/junior high" - ONLY in the context of their school. There are only 90 families in our church - about 2/3rds have kids. There are only 5 homeschooling families and between us we have 20 kids. As my children are getting older, it's starting to bug me and makes me wonder every time if I am doing my kid's faith a disservice. How am I to counter this thought process that my son will get every week he's in youth group?

 

Beth

Edited July 29, 2012 by bethben

[chepyl]

I wish I could find my notes from the local homeschool convention this year....but I do not know where I put them! Voddie Baucham spoke about this topic. I loved what he had to say. But he was against the idea of sending kids into public schools to be "the salt and the light" in the schools. I will look around for my notebook, I cannot remember exactly what he said, but I thought he made some great points.

[Katy]

I don't think kids can effectively share their faith until they are old enough to understand it and understand the other points of view AND understand enough apologetics to explain why those points of view are false. If you expose them to a ton of other ideas in more than a (this is what other people think) sort of way, they may very well get sidetracked by a lot of things that matter in the world, but that do NOT matter in terms of faith.

 

Also, after years in churches very mission focused, I've come to the conclusion that relational evangelism is much more effective than scare them to Jesus sort of evangelism. That means, as a family we are friends with non Christians. But that doesn't mean I want my kids hanging around with kids in our town, who talk about sex and swear in 2nd grade, and where the popular kids are having sex in middle school. The popular kids may be in the minority, but I think it warps what's considered normal in the minds of those kids.

 

Also, even if you are evangelically focused, by putting them in a school to be an evangelist before they're even capable of reading through the bible themselves, you're setting them up to either be an outcast or to hide their faith, which is tantamount to lying. I don't want to put my kids in those positions until they are ready.

 

And even if I was completely fine with tweens being exposed to an oversexualized culture in order to evangelize it, at their age I want them to be focused on LEARNING. Not spending half the day with fluff and social conditioning.

 

I'd probably find another church.

[laundrycrisis]

I do not think it is any church's place to tell their members how their children should be educated. And IMO it is extremely inappropriate for them to view a public school as a "mission field".

 

Your reasons for homeschooling are your own, and they sound well thought out. I would just tell my child that you do not let your church do your thinking for you, and that it's fine if there is a general difference of opinion between your family and most of the church.

Edited July 29, 2012 by laundrycrisis

[Ellie]

As far as I can tell, we are not commanded to send our young, as-yet-spiritually-unformed children into the world. We adults are supposed to do be going into the world.

 

Here's a comment made by one of my Internet friends some time ago:

 

Our children in schools are not missionaries but are the mission field themselves. ALL children in the school are the mission field. The battle for their minds and hearts is fought daily. Influences from teachers to textbooks to media purposefully impact ALL the children, usually not for the furtherance of Christianity. If folly is bound up in the heart of a child (as the Bible says it is, Prov. 22:15) how can we expect him/her to not only withstand this impact but proactively influence others? How can we teach our children as we walk by the way, when we rise, etc. (as the Bible says we should, Deut. 6:4-7) when they are away from us for most of the day? In other words, how can we expect to equip our folly-filled children to fight this battle wisely when the bulk of their time is spent being trained in the enemy camp?

Are our children really supposed to sway the minds of teachers and students alike with their immature powers of persuasion and articulation? Or more likely will bad company corrupt good character (1 Cor. 15:33)? We need to train our soldiers before we send them off to battle. As Paul writes in 1 Cor. 13:11 "When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me." Young children are not equipped to proselytize in the school setting. (Goodness, some teachers (incorrectly) don't even think you are allowed to have a Bible in class!)

Okay, I guess you know where I stand!:)

by the way, I once listened to a Greg Harris tape once responding to this very issue. He recommended practicing hospitality as a means of approaching the schools as a mission field.

[Melinda in VT]

Are the leaders just not familiar with the many ways in which home schoolers interact with others?

 

It seems like it would be pretty easy to help your son translate the public school message to his home school world.

 

Now, if the church focuses only on ministering to non-Christians and you try to have your kids interact only with Christians, then it seems there is a disconnect that might be more significant.

[athena1277]

You don't send an untrained soldier to war, neither will I send an untrained child to evangelize in a public school. The chances of them coming out unscathed are not acceptable for me to send them there unless there were no other choice.

 

I hate that argument about sending kids to schools to teach. I have yet to meet a person who was converted because of a classmate taught them about Jesus. Even teenagers are still in training.

[6wishes]

I too, am a Christian homeschooler, and while your kids are older, I believe the decision to homeschool is between me, my husband, and God. Which is why I have no problem with others choices not to homeschool, do private, or do public. We all have to answer for our choices, and I don't answer to the church. On an evangelistic note I find the easiest opportunities to share the gospel comes in terms of relationships-which can be done in any setting, not just school. If your child is involved with friends in the neighborhood, on sports teams, scouts, etc...any of these can be places for this to happen. I also believe in praying and asking God for opportunities from Him-not just forced, weird interactions. If we are looking for them, He'll give them to us regardless. This is also why I don't feel I have to go to work full time just to expose myself to more people. God can provide me with people right where I'm living my daily life. Don't let your church bully you into making this kind of a decision out of guilt or shame-that's not from God!

[momacacia]

It sounds like the homeschooled kids are going to make a hefty chunk of the youth group in the coming decade. Maybe one or several of the homeschool parents should have a casual chat with the youth leader, or whoever makes the comments.

 

You'd want to first, clue them in on their audience, and second, help them come up with ideas of how kids bring Jesus to and be examples of the believer in their school, co-op, neighborhood, and community. After all, they're not all going to be in school the rest of their lives.;)

[justamouse]

Send my kids to school to 'evangelize' it?

 

What ARE they smoking? That is the most backwards logic.

[Katy]

It occurs to me that the youth pastor didn't intend to be anti-homeschooling as much as that he wanted the kids to make a decision to be an evangelist rather than accidentally get sucked in to the awful cultures that exist in middle and high school kids. Could that be right?

[mrs.m]

It occurs to me that the youth pastor didn't intend to be anti-homeschooling as much as that he wanted the kids to make a decision to be an evangelist rather than accidentally get sucked in to the awful cultures that exist in middle and high school kids. Could that be right?

 

 

:iagree:Are they actually arguing with you about your choice to homeschool? or are they mostly catering to the majority of the group that are spending most of their days in a school building without consideration that some in the group are at home?

[PeacefulChaos]

Why are you homeschooling as a Christian? I am homeschooling my children so that they can retain their innocence as long as possible and have a Christ centered worldview. I want them to understand history and science from a Christian perspective first before they get bombarded with secular teachings (of which there are a lot in our liberal small town). Now that I have a son going into those junior high years, my church is making me wonder if we are making the right choice. The church is very much "bring Jesus to the world" kind of church. That's fine - I have absolutely no problem with that.

 

BUT, when they talk about the youth group bringing Jesus to the world it is always in the context of "mission field of their high school/junior high" - ONLY in the context of their school. There are only 90 families in our church - about 2/3rds have kids. There are only 5 homeschooling families and between us we have 20 kids. As my children are getting older, it's starting to bug me and makes me wonder every time if I am doing my kid's faith a disservice. How am I to counter this thought process that my son will get every week he's in youth group?

 

Beth

Speaking as one who (when I was younger and anti-homeschooling but still a christian) felt that kids should be in public school in order to be a witness...

I think it goes with the territory, because the majority of people just do go to school outside the home (this is the case here, too, though we have many at our Christian school - which just so happens to be affiliated with our church anyway :tongue_smilie: ) I think you just take what they say and make sure that your kids have places to use it elsewhere. Actually, DH and I have talked a little bit about the 'salt and light' thing as they get older, especially into high school (DH said at that point maybe we should consider sending them, but honestly with the state of our school system they'll be so far ahead at that point it would be a terrible idea. He's realized that now, but I digress...) and we have determined just that. For example, I don't enroll my kids in the 'homeschool softball league'. Why the heck do we need a homeschool softball league when there is a community one? Because there are large numbers of paranoid christian homeschoolers here (I am NOT saying that about you, OP, just speaking of our local hs groups) who would rather have nothing to do with those outside of their comfort zone. If my kids want to play a sport, I'm going to enroll them in the one that everyone else enrolls in, etc.

I think it can be a hard balance - even for me, because I don't really see people very often outside of my christian friends. I know that's a cliche and everything but the fact is that on a regular, daily basis I'm not rubbing shoulders with the lost. Yes, I of course am regularly trying to help my kids grow and mature in their faith, but as far as the general 'missions' and 'witnessing' type stuff, I get very few opportunities for that. So I definitely see that being something that we have to deliberately search out for the kids as they get older, and balance the messages coming from youth about reaching your classmates with, 'Ok, guys, what can YOU do to reach people since you don't see unsaved at school every day?' I think it'll be a process.

I'm rambling, I know... I don't tend to be real good at getting my thoughts down in a short, cohesive manner. :) But I think that for us, missions trips and regular outreaches will be important. I actually plan on making my kids do community service (a certain number of hours) every year starting in their teens. So whatever that pans out to be, hopefully that will be an outlet for that. I don't know if you believe in missions trips (I know some don't - which I didn't realize until being on this board! :D ) but that gives them those opportunities as well, which I know isn't what you are asking... I guess I'm just saying that you can take what they say and say, 'Yes, absolutely, kids in school elsewhere need to be an example of Christianity to their peers. Now how about you?' and tailor it for them and their life.

FTR, I'm totally pro-youth group (served as an adult leader in ours for several years, DH still does) and I definitely think that a well run youth group is worth the effort. :)

 

Oh, and I homeschool as a Christian for educational and scheduling reasons. DH's reasons are more related to our faith - feeling as though the PS system would push a secular agenda on them, etc. To me, the retaining of their innocence and stuff is a bonus, and I'm glad for it, but it wasn't my original or main motivation.

 

ETA: I also didn't read your post as saying that your church was critical of your choice to homeschool or trying to say negative things about homeschooling. If that is the case, I'm not really sure what I'd do. I think it's more likely (though I may be wrong) that they are just speaking broadly in terms of schooling, and honestly homeschooling just isn't that popular in most places still. I don't think it's negativity toward you or your choice, but that they are speaking the same way I've always heard them speak - which can tend to be in broad generalities. You can always talk to the youth pastor and he may not say anything different in service (because it doesn't make sense for him to cater to a small minority of homeschoolers rather than the majority of those who aren't), but he could always talk to your son, too, or be a part of the conversation I mentioned above - 'How will you begin witnessing to others?' I think that could be done without sounding judgmental (on his part or on yours). JMO. :)

Edited July 29, 2012 by PeacefulChaos

[Trish]

Really, you can hang around the street corners in the ghetto in order to evangelize.

[AndyJoy]

It occurs to me that the youth pastor didn't intend to be anti-homeschooling as much as that he wanted the kids to make a decision to be an evangelist rather than accidentally get sucked in to the awful cultures that exist in middle and high school kids. Could that be right?

 

The reality is that most of the teens the leader encounters are spending at least 1/2 of their waking hours in school. So for them, that's where they are living out their Christian walk. I suspect the leader went to PS and home schooling isn't really on his radar. Unless he's saying that you have to be in school to be a witness to others, I wouldn't see this as anti-homeschooling at all, just an oversight where he's not reaching the full audience.

[bethben]

I have yet to meet a person who was converted because of a classmate taught them about Jesus.

 

Here's the rub - my husband was one of those kids whose friend brought him to youth group and as a result became the only Christian in his non-Christian family. My Christian friend from high school became my only contact for Christian fellowship after I became a Christian in college.

 

We don't live in a Christian bubble. There's a neighborhood pack of boys that runs around with my junior high son. So far, my son has no motivation to evangelize his friends, but very much wants to have us allow him to do the things their parents let them do (some of which are inappropriate for the age they are in my opinion - to each his own however - I'm not their parents and they can raise their children however they see fit). This alone will dissuade me - his faith is not mature and is not his own.

 

I've seen some mature and solid Christian teens come out of that public school setting - but I've also seen some who got so worn down from the opposition that they have as adults taken a break from their faith because it got to be too hard to stand. Our town is such that the only group it is OK to mock is the Christians. And that observation was made by someone who does not subscribe to Christian belief or morality.

 

It's just tough - as a family, we already stand out significantly. Now church becomes one more place where we continue to stand out. Sigh...

 

Beth

[PeacefulChaos]

Here's the rub - my husband was one of those kids whose friend brought him to youth group and as a result became the only Christian in his non-Christian family. My Christian friend from high school became my only contact for Christian fellowship after I became a Christian in college.

 

We don't live in a Christian bubble. There's a neighborhood pack of boys that runs around with my junior high son. So far, my son has no motivation to evangelize his friends, but very much wants to have us allow him to do the things their parents let them do (some of which are inappropriate for the age they are in my opinion - to each his own however - I'm not their parents and they can raise their children however they see fit). This alone will dissuade me - his faith is not mature and is not his own.

 

I've seen some mature and solid Christian teens come out of that public school setting - but I've also seen some who got so worn down from the opposition that they have as adults taken a break from their faith because it got to be too hard to stand. Our town is such that the only group it is OK to mock is the Christians. And that observation was made by someone who does not subscribe to Christian belief or morality.

 

It's just tough - as a family, we already stand out significantly. Now church becomes one more place where we continue to stand out. Sigh...

 

Beth

 

:grouphug: I know what you mean.

[Seasider]

You don't send an untrained soldier to war, neither will I send an untrained child to evangelize in a public school. The chances of them coming out unscathed are not acceptable for me to send them there unless there were no other choice.

 

I hate that argument about sending kids to schools to teach. I have yet to meet a person who was converted because of a classmate taught them about Jesus. Even teenagers are still in training.

 

:iagree:

 

Most missionaries these days don't go out into a foreign field without first receiving tons of training and support. Think about folks with a organizations like Wycliffe Bible Translators or Mission Aviation Fellowship. Those people don't go out without years of specialized training! Several organizations have field camps in remote areas of the US where families learn to live in primitive conditions with a safety net before going to the actual outreach location.

 

I realize I've stretched the analogy, but I think it applies all the same. It's good practice to prepare before engaging. Your home and parent directed activities are your training field, and that applies to all matters of life and faith, not just evangelism. Of course you want to raise kids who stand firm in their beliefs. But it's not up to some church administration to determine how and when. That's your job.

[bethben]

It occurs to me that the youth pastor didn't intend to be anti-homeschooling as much as that he wanted the kids to make a decision to be an evangelist rather than accidentally get sucked in to the awful cultures that exist in middle and high school kids. Could that be right?

 

Yes, that's the spirit behind it, but what does a kid do who's not in that culture but only hears that's his mission field - a place he can't be? It's not anti-homeschooling. The leader's hearts are in the right place.

 

Beth

[ThisIsTheDay]

How am I to counter this thought process that my son will get every week he's in youth group?

 

 

My response to the youth group leader: "Bless your heart! Jesus didn't begin His ministry until He was 30. Besides, God's called our family to homeschool, and I'm not one to argue with God!"

 

I would also seriously be reconsidering this youth group. I'm not a fan in general, and I definitely protect my children from one who would come across as usurping parental authority. Not everyone is called to evangelize in the same way anyhow . . . I see a lot of warning signs within this admonition to evangelize in public school.

[bethben]

My response to the youth group leader: "Bless your heart! Jesus didn't begin His ministry until He was 30. Besides, God's called our family to homeschool, and I'm not one to argue with God!"

 

 

 

Basically - "pass the bean dip"

 

I guess I'm a little worked up because a bunch of teens came back from a mission trip and were admonished again to go out to their mission field - the local public high school. About how great it was that they could go as a cohesive group, etc, etc. And in that youth group sits a former homeschooler (current public schooled) who's mother is questioning the culture she's put her child into since it's been so negative.

 

Beth

Edited July 29, 2012 by bethben

[sassenach]

 

I hate that argument about sending kids to schools to teach. I have yet to meet a person who was converted because of a classmate taught them about Jesus. Even teenagers are still in training.

 

I have multiple examples for you. It DEFINITELY happens. Often.

 

That said, I often describe homeschooling as green housing. I am passionate about homeschooling young kids. I don't believe you can prevent a young child from being shaped by the teachers and mentors that you put in charge of them for the majority of their waking hours. They are a baby plant that needs to form strong roots.

 

Where I depart from many homeschoolers is in high school. I absolutely believe that a teenager who has a firm foundation can not only navigate high school well, but can actually be called by God into high school as a mission field. I don't think that all teens are called into that field, but it certainly does happen. It's up to the parents and teen to discern God's will in all that.

 

Back to the OP. Your youth pastor is preaching to the needs of his students. It's quite possible that he hasn't thought through how to address those same needs in homeschool students. Have you tried having a conversation with him?

[PeacefulChaos]

Basically - "pass the bean dip"

 

I guess I'm a little worked up because a bunch of teens came back from a mission trip and were admonished again to go out to their mission field - the local public high school. About how great it was that they could go as a cohesive group, etc, etc. And in that youth group sits a former homeschooler (current public schooled) who's mother is questioning the culture she's put her child into since it's been so negative.

 

Beth

 

Then you turn around and say to your son (with or without the youth pastor's input, though it wouldn't hurt to tactfully bring it up), 'So what is YOUR mission field?' And if he doesn't have one, find one.

[Seasider]

Basically - "pass the bean dip"

 

I guess I'm a little worked up because a bunch of teens came back from a mission trip and were admonished again to go out to their mission field - the local public high school. About how great it was that they could go as a cohesive group, etc, etc. And in that youth group sits a former homeschooler (current public schooled) who's mother is questioning the culture she's put her child into since it's been so negative.

 

Beth

 

If you plan to continue to participate under this youth pastor's leadership, I don't think you can afford to just pass the bean dip. Especially considering the math, that home schoolers will form a large percentage of the group in the future. You will need to share your thoughts, reasoning and concerns with him. As I read more of this thread, it occurred to me that he really and truly may just be operating sort of blindly with regard to home schooled kids. His response - whatever form it takes - to your kindly extended hand should help guide your future church choices.

[ByGrace3]

I wish I could find my notes from the local homeschool convention this year....but I do not know where I put them! Voddie Baucham spoke about this topic. I loved what he had to say. But he was against the idea of sending kids into public schools to be "the salt and the light" in the schools. I will look around for my notebook, I cannot remember exactly what he said, but I thought he made some great points.

 

I didn't read through the entire thread, but here is a quote from Voddie Baucham in "Family Driven Faith" that I absolutely loved. It is something along the lines of "sending your small children to evangelize the public schools is like sending your children into the enemy camp and being surprised when they come home wearing the enemies uniform."

[Parrothead]

I do not think it is any church's place to tell their members how their children should be educated. And IMO it is extremely inappropriate for them to view a public school as a "mission field".

 

Your reasons for homeschooling are your own, and they sound well thought out. I would just tell my child that you do not let your church do your thinking for you, and that it's fine if there is a general difference of opinion between your family and most of the church.

:iagree:I'm with laundrycrisis on this one.

 

(FTR: I don't think the church should be in a person's bedroom, banking or parenting.)

[Mama Geek]

Yes, that's the spirit behind it, but what does a kid do who's not in that culture but only hears that's his mission field - a place he can't be? It's not anti-homeschooling. The leader's hearts are in the right place.

 

Beth

 

Based on this I would first start by talking to the leader. There is a difference between being anti-homeschooling and focusing on kids in the public schools.

[mom4him]

Why are you homeschooling as a Christian? I am homeschooling my children so that they can retain their innocence as long as possible and have a Christ centered worldview. I want them to understand history and science from a Christian perspective first before they get bombarded with secular teachings (of which there are a lot in our liberal small town). Now that I have a son going into those junior high years, my church is making me wonder if we are making the right choice. The church is very much "bring Jesus to the world" kind of church. That's fine - I have absolutely no problem with that.

 

BUT, when they talk about the youth group bringing Jesus to the world it is always in the context of "mission field of their high school/junior high" - ONLY in the context of their school. There are only 90 families in our church - about 2/3rds have kids. There are only 5 homeschooling families and between us we have 20 kids. As my children are getting older, it's starting to bug me and makes me wonder every time if I am doing my kid's faith a disservice. How am I to counter this thought process that my son will get every week he's in youth group?

 

Beth

 

I totally hear you. The youth group at our very small church is very ps focuses and I have to admit, I am not sure just what I will do when my two have to go there for their Wed. night class. There are so many things they focus on that do not fit out family.

 

Your reasons for home schooling are much like mine. I do not feel that sacrificing my two children to ps and all the yuck there is the way to get those kids in ps dedicated to God.

[Katy]

If you plan to continue to participate under this youth pastor's leadership, I don't think you can afford to just pass the bean dip. Especially considering the math, that home schoolers will form a large percentage of the group in the future. You will need to share your thoughts, reasoning and concerns with him. As I read more of this thread, it occurred to me that he really and truly may just be operating sort of blindly with regard to home schooled kids. His response - whatever form it takes - to your kindly extended hand should help guide your future church choices.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: Besides, it's not as if there's not plenty of logs for the kids to take out of their own eyes BEFORE they go focusing on everyone else. What about character building?

[J-rap]

You will be sending your children into the world soon enough...when they are mature and confident enough in their faith to really make a difference. Most of my children have/will have very public lives "out in the world." I'm so grateful they had all those years at home to be filled up with faith and clothed with the full armour of God before doing so.

[ThisIsTheDay]

Yes, that's the spirit behind it, but what does a kid do who's not in that culture but only hears that's his mission field - a place he can't be? It's not anti-homeschooling. The leader's hearts are in the right place.

 

Beth

 

That might be "the spirit behind it," but it doesn't sound like the Spirit behind it . . .

[Kirch]

I think your first step is to have some good discussions with your ds about where *his* mission field is and how/why it's different from his ps peers at church.

 

I think your next step is to sit down with the youth leader and talk about it, both to enlist his help and encouragement in guiding your ds to reach out and minister in the place where God has him AND to gently bring up the fact that he's soon going to be ministering to even more homeschoolers who could benefit from his mentoring and guiding even though they won't be in the schools. Enlist his help in helping your ds and other hs'ers to find ways to reach out with their families in other ways and venues.

[pdalley]

This verse gets quoted a lot in regards to sending children to public school to be 'missionaries' but they don't generally read the entire verse.

 

Matthew 5:13-16

New International Version (NIV)

Salt and Light

 

13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

 

I'd wager more kids lose their saltiness in the public school mission field than make other's salty. Some are called and I don't doubt that but Jesus didn't send children out to evangelize.

 

I'd probably discuss it with the youth pastor. We don't get any flack at church because they know what we went through with the public schools but most of our youth do attend public - some private and a few homeschooled besides us.

[TranquilMind]

Why are you homeschooling as a Christian? I am homeschooling my children so that they can retain their innocence as long as possible and have a Christ centered worldview. I want them to understand history and science from a Christian perspective first before they get bombarded with secular teachings (of which there are a lot in our liberal small town). Now that I have a son going into those junior high years, my church is making me wonder if we are making the right choice. The church is very much "bring Jesus to the world" kind of church. That's fine - I have absolutely no problem with that.

 

BUT, when they talk about the youth group bringing Jesus to the world it is always in the context of "mission field of their high school/junior high" - ONLY in the context of their school. There are only 90 families in our church - about 2/3rds have kids. There are only 5 homeschooling families and between us we have 20 kids. As my children are getting older, it's starting to bug me and makes me wonder every time if I am doing my kid's faith a disservice. How am I to counter this thought process that my son will get every week he's in youth group?

 

Beth

Why don't you tell the youth group leader that the entire group is not being represented, and that he/she could be more inclusive when sharing about this. Kids actually DO go places besides school!

[justasque]

I guess I'm a little worked up because a bunch of teens came back from a mission trip and were admonished again to go out to their mission field - the local public high school. About how great it was that they could go as a cohesive group, etc, etc.

 

As I read more of this thread, it occurred to me that he really and truly may just be operating sort of blindly with regard to home schooled kids.

 

It sounds like the real problem here is that there's a lot of preaching and not a lot of listening. Rather than just saying "go out and do x", making assumptions about the kids' daily lives, it seems like a more effective set-up would be a guided conversation. How have the kids gone about witnessing, what kinds of situations have they enountered, what kinds of problems have they faced, what kinds of tools/skills do they think they need to develop to do this work, what resources have they found to help, how do they feel about "if necessary, use words", etc. In such a conversation, a skilled leader would be able to draw in various kids' perspectives. It would then be very natural for a hsed kid to share his situation, and for the group to discuss how he can adapt the basic idea based on his daily life. If they're teens, they're old enough to participate in such a discussion, and it will be more useful to them in the long run than a lecture.

[MrsJewelsRae]

This mindset really annoys me and I've seen it a lot among my Christian friends. First of all, it assumes that the child is even a Christian yet (I am a born again Christian). How is a child that has not yet accepted Christ for himself to be a minister of the gospel to his classmates? Christian children are young in their faith, like tender plants, I believe they need sheltering until they are old enough and stable enough to survive, yet these adult Christians expect them to get out there and be a light to the world while so young in the faith? At the root of it, I suspect is the stereotyping of homeschoolers= no social life. It assumes that if the child is not in school they will have no opportunity to strengthen their faith by being a light- because they obviously would have no other opprtunitirs to be around other people. Furthermore, do these adults go to work preaching to all their coworkers and being a light in their job? Wouldn't this also mean that those who work from home aren't being a light to the world? What about stay at home moms? It's not a very well thought out argument IMO.

 

I would be very firm with the pastor in your feelings, make it clear that it's not up for discussion, and certainly not trying to impress your children with the idea that it's a necessity. If they want verses (not that they have a right to demand that) I'd go with Deuteronmy 6:7-9

7“You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. 8“You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. 9“You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

It doesn't mean that all Christians are required to hs, but it's certainly a good argument in defense of it. I also really like what pdalley said.

[PeacefulChaos]

I can't help but notice that people get pretty prickly with this type of question on here..... I fail to see how the situation the OP is describing equals the frostiness that some of the answers seem to have (in regard to the youth pastor). ???

[bethben]

I think part of it is the fact that my oldest homeschooler is now in junior high. I'm starting to see friends who have been homeschooling alongside of us since the beginning jump ship because they feel like they can't "do" homeschooling well past 8th grade. It's bringing up my insecurities. I asked one friend if it was hard to let her daughter go on a missions trip to Costa Rico. She said, "No, because she's been in public school for 2 years now." Not the answer I expected at all. I'm thinking that any parent would be a bit nervous because their child was going to a foreign country for the first time, but there's a mindset that maybe homeschoolers in general hold onto their children too tight and she's learned not to because her oldest is going to public high school.

 

So, I think a lot of it is "can I really do this?" Is this going to actually work? Maybe I need to just hang out with my friend who's homeschool graduated 4 children with 2 of them becoming national merit scholars. All her children are articulate and have a strong faith. I need to just take this woman out to coffee and have at it...

 

Beth

[bethben]

I can't help but notice that people get pretty prickly with this type of question on here..... I fail to see how the situation the OP is describing equals the frostiness that some of the answers seem to have (in regard to the youth pastor). ???

 

Yup--I have nothing against the youth pastor. We've known each other since college and his heart is really for these kids. I think I'm just tired of having my children and others like them not be considered and being constantly in the minority. It starts to wear on a person sometime being the odd man out. We'll see what happens next year and I'll deal with it at that time.

 

Beth

[MrsJewelsRae]

I also wanted to add that I was ps all the way through, while my sister was pulled in grade 4 and homeschooled all the way through gr 4-12. At school I was shy, I was well liked as I was sweet and friendly and "always smiling" according to my yearbook. But I only hung out with a small group of students, plus my family, I was very busy with my studies. I remember a visiting preacher once pounded the pulpit at a large youth meeting while shouting "If you kids don't go to school tomorrow and tell 10 unsaced schoolmates about Christ you're not a real Christian!" it was very upsetting to me, first of all I was shy, not to mention I had hours of homework every night- how wield I have time to be a full time missionary at school?! I was too yiung to realize the folly and utter stupidity of his words and there were no parents at the meeting to refute his message.

 

Meanwhile, my hs younger sister was outgoing and could talk to anyone. She not only hs'd but she had spare time to interact with various members if the community. She walked the neighbors dig every day because the lady was to frail to get out anymore. She walked 2 children to school everyday for pay from 12 years and older. During these walks to school she was able to meet 2 cross walk ladies that she got to know, our families are friends to this day. She was able to go with my mom regularly to nursing homes to visit with lonely widows and widowers. She still goes to the nursing home every Sunday to sing in a choir to the elderly.

 

So tell me, who had more opportunity to minister and practice their faith? The ps'er or the hs'r?

[Kirch]

Yup--I have nothing against the youth pastor. We've known each other since college and his heart is really for these kids. I think I'm just tired of having my children and others like them not be considered and being constantly in the minority. It starts to wear on a person sometime being the odd man out. We'll see what happens next year and I'll deal with it at that time.

 

Beth

 

I can definitely relate to that. Everyone at my church is very encouraging and supportive of our homeschooling, but it does get old to constantly be on the outside of the norm.

[joannqn]

As far as I can tell, we are not commanded to send our young, as-yet-spiritually-unformed children into the world. We adults are supposed to do be going into the world.

 

Here's a comment made by one of my Internet friends some time ago:

 

Our children in schools are not missionaries but are the mission field themselves. ALL children in the school are the mission field. The battle for their minds and hearts is fought daily. Influences from teachers to textbooks to media purposefully impact ALL the children, usually not for the furtherance of Christianity. If folly is bound up in the heart of a child (as the Bible says it is, Prov. 22:15) how can we expect him/her to not only withstand this impact but proactively influence others? How can we teach our children as we walk by the way, when we rise, etc. (as the Bible says we should, Deut. 6:4-7) when they are away from us for most of the day? In other words, how can we expect to equip our folly-filled children to fight this battle wisely when the bulk of their time is spent being trained in the enemy camp?

Are our children really supposed to sway the minds of teachers and students alike with their immature powers of persuasion and articulation? Or more likely will bad company corrupt good character (1 Cor. 15:33)? We need to train our soldiers before we send them off to battle. As Paul writes in 1 Cor. 13:11 "When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me." Young children are not equipped to proselytize in the school setting. (Goodness, some teachers (incorrectly) don't even think you are allowed to have a Bible in class!)

Okay, I guess you know where I stand!:)

by the way, I once listened to a Greg Harris tape once responding to this very issue. He recommended practicing hospitality as a means of approaching the schools as a mission field.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Can I steal this?

[MrsJewelsRae]

Sorry if I seemed "frosty" toward the pastor. I didn't read the whole thread, but saw other responses that made me think you'd had some confrontations with him. My bad. I also have a bit of a personal sore spot from my own run in with an elder at my church a few months ago who publicly reprimanded me on fb for commenting on a homeschool fb page (that I didn't realize would show up in my feed) a very neutral post about how I thought the book "The War on Boys" interesting and concerning. He slammed hs'ing as having all kinds of problems and the book being total propogand, how he was a proud ps teacher, etc. I think he responded to me as a defensive teacher, not an elder/shepherd and fellow brother in the Lord. I still haven't fully recovered from it, so I'm a bit jumpy. :blush:

[bethben]

No problems - I've been around enough to know that those type of issues are not unusual and that people who come across a little sensitive usually have some sort of story. We've had a taste of it with this same church (not at all what some people have had around here and not strong enough to part ways) so this whole thing has made me a little jumpy also.

 

Beth

[MomatHWTK]

John lived in the wilderness until it was his time to come forward. God has a plan for each of His children, and each one's plan is his alone.

[ThisIsTheDay]

No problems - I've been around enough to know that those type of issues are not unusual and that people who come across a little sensitive usually have some sort of story. We've had a taste of it with this same church (not at all what some people have had around here and not strong enough to part ways) so this whole thing has made me a little jumpy also.

 

Beth

 

Guilty here, and you are being kind calling me a "little" sensitive. It is true, I am hyper-vigilant with any youth group. I do apologize if I offended anyone. It was certainly not my intent, and I appreciate your gracious comment above. :blush:

[Photo Ninja]

Our youth pastor was strongly into youth being salt and light in the ps. THe problem is the youth were not taught enough doctrine to know what they believed. If they don't know what they believe, it is difficult to evangelize. I once asked him how successful the youth were in this goal. He was quiet for a while, then said they need to work harder so they can be successful. He believed they were just not being salty enough. It was a difficult conversation because he didn't think they needed teaching apart from encouraging them to evangelize and bring their friends to church, which he considered one of the best goals of them going to the ps. It seemed like more of a numbers goal than an evangelistic goal. He considered evangelism at the ps to be the students bringing their friends to church. He didn't accept that most students need to mature in their own faith before they are comfortable sharing it. Oh well. We agreed to disagree.

 

It is true that some students thrive in the ps system and are truly salt there. But in my experience, those students are in the minority and in all cases, those students came from families who did not leave teaching of doctrine to the church. They were strong Christian families who discipled their dc. I am sure there are exceptions, but this has been my experience.

 

It is difficult being on the outside of someone's expectations.

[TravelingChris]

Funny that I only came across this at the last place we lived, and it wasn't a pastor, youth or otherwise, but one pair of formerly homeschooling parents. The youth pastor was having an evening meeting for parents to discuss the program. His emphasis wasn't on our kids being evangelists at school at all but how to grow them in the faith and expand their horizons (through mission trips and local opportunities to help the less fortunate). So he did a little presentation and then asked the ten or so parents (or parent couples) to introduce ourselves and our kids in the program. I think we were first and had both of our daughters, both homeschooled at that time, one in middle and one in high school grades. Next parent had a kid in ps. Then there was a parent with 2 kids in a regional talent school. Then came a couple who had homeschooled but decided to force their daughter into school to be salt and light. They didn't just say this but made it like an arguement. I didn't take the bait and finally we went on to another parent who homeschooled and she specifically said that she thought her son needed more grounding in the faith before sending out to evangelize.

 

Fast forward a few months and I am having a conversation with my daughters. I asked how G the daughter who is supposed to be salt and light was coming to some program because the ps was supposed to be in session then (we lived in an area with lots of school districts, private schools, etc). They told me she is back in homeschool. Seems like she was influenced the bad way at school.

 

I don't homeschool and didn't homeschool my kids to shelter them specifically, though sometimes that was an added benefit when the local school was not very safe. I homeschooled because it was the right thing for my kids' academics and for our family cohesion.

 

OP, I would remind the youth pastor of your stats (20 kids who are homeschooled coming up) and that even if it was one, the continual emphasis on ps school, particularly as a fertile ground for evangelization, is just not a great topic.

[bethben]

I just wanted to update with something God showed me about my son's "mission field". My son was outside playing kickball with his dad and the pack of boys (5-6 of them) that he runs around with. These boys want my husband to play with them. Anyway, as I was watching them play, God showed me that those boys are not my son's mission field but my husband's. My son himself needs to be discipled in how to pray for his friends, and just how to make his faith his own. He is not ready to disciple his friends, but my husband is. Just wanted to share in case this helps anyone else get free from the "send your kids to public school to be salt and light".

 

Beth

[Jean in Newcastle]

I just wanted to update with something God showed me about my son's "mission field". My son was outside playing kickball with his dad and the pack of boys (5-6 of them) that he runs around with. These boys want my husband to play with them. Anyway, as I was watching them play, God showed me that those boys are not my son's mission field but my husband's. My son himself needs to be discipled in how to pray for his friends, and just how to make his faith his own. He is not ready to disciple his friends, but my husband is. Just wanted to share in case this helps anyone else get free from the "send your kids to public school to be salt and light".

 

Beth

 

Good insight.