Kids being taken away from parents s/o

[Scarlett]

I didn't want to t/j Parrots thread about her building plans ....but someone in that thread mentioned that she had heard that CPS will take your kids away from you if you do not have running water.

 

The idea of that just made my blood pressure rise.....Once when I was a kid we had no running water and we LOVED that house....MUCH more than the house we had moved out of with backed up sewer. Ugh.

 

Then I got to thinking about lice....my mom was a public school teacher and she was remembering the time she deloused 3 siblings because the parents were too lazy to do so and the kids kept getting sent home from school. She said after she used the shampoo and began to c omb their hair all kinds of dead lice just fell to the floor. I was so disgusted....I asked her WHY doesn't CPS do something about that. She said she has called many many times on those kids and others and was told that lice is not life threatening or disease inducing and they would do NOTHING.

 

Makes me sick. And yet CPS somewhere would take kids away just because there is no running water?

 

Vent over. Thank you.

[akmommy]

I would hope not! Many people in our area live without running water. Good water can be hard to find and rent around here is crazy. Dry cabins are often the solution to both problems. I dont think a lack of running water is bad parenting. Water is available from spigots at many locations in the area and people have been hauling their water from its source to their homes long before there was running water.

 

If the children are consistantly dirty/filthy and water for washing/drinking/cooking is not being provided then i can see it, but just a lack of water running from the tap should not put someone in danger of losing their children.

[momtoamiracle]

I would think they would be most concerned about the septic system. If there is no running water there may be no safe septic disposal. That would be a health hazard.

 

 

 

CPS would look into things and make sure kids aren't in a life threatening situation. There are not enough foster homes to be pulling kids out left and right.

[joannqn]

I once called about a couple of kids. We were living in a rough neighborhood, and they were living in a home with no running water, no electricity, and no heat. This was during the winter when temps get down into the 30s adn 40s and sometimes in the teens. Meanwhile, the father figure (I don't think he was their father) and mother were in and out of jail had plenty of money for beer and cigarettes. CPS told me it wasn't against the law to have no utilities, and that was the end of it.

[Truscifi]

It depends on the circumstances. I know of a case where the family did not have running water and the kids weren't taken because the parents had adequate water storage for drinking and cooking and bathing. They were living in a travel trailer on a site with no water while they built a cabin. The case was closed with no indicators (meaning no problems found at all).

[WeeBeaks]

Not here at least. It is even on their literature that those types of situations, or even homelessness, is not a cause of CPS intervention. I would assume anyone could get the paperwork/handouts to see for themselves. This is San Diego County.

[Dory]

Wow, not the case up here. I grew up with no power and no running water and that's in northern Alberta where -40 is pretty common in the winter. There has to be a source of heat here, but that can be a wood stove.

[Tarreymere]

Dh (works for CPS) says that no running water alone in our area is not grounds for removal of children. Niether is no septic system (we do have a lot of Amish families and some of those apparently do not have septic systems while others do).

 

Asked about heat: There must be a heat source in the winter, a wood stove is fine.

[Scarlett]

Well, you have all reassured me that CPS is not taking kids away for no running water. No indoor running water makes life more difficult....to stay clean, cook etc...but it CAN be done.

 

I'm much more disgusted by these people who let their kids KEEP lice. I have a theory that that is the reason we are seeing so much more cases of lice these days. When I was a kid NO ONE had lice. I never knew a single person who had lice. We heard 'stories'....always about the dirty people....I to this day do not know if they really had lice. If they did they didn't pass it on to any of us!

[happyhomemaker25]

Well, you have all reassured me that CPS is not taking kids away for no running water. No indoor running water makes life more difficult....to stay clean, cook etc...but it CAN be done.

 

I'm much more disgusted by these people who let their kids KEEP lice. I have a theory that that is the reason we are seeing so much more cases of lice these days. When I was a kid NO ONE had lice. I never knew a single person who had lice. We heard 'stories'....always about the dirty people....I to this day do not know if they really had lice. If they did they didn't pass it on to any of us!

 

I understand what you are saying, but I want to say that I could have been labeled a bad parent because I could NOT get rid of the lice. My daughter missed almost 5 weeks of school after it was all added up because of lice. It was devastating. I did EVERYTHING. I did have an officer worker call me an inept mother because of it and I cried for days. I went to the pediatrician and begged for a prescription. He finally gave me one. When I got to the pharmacy the pharmacist told me that it was just over the counter RID by the drug name. I almost collapsed. It was horrible!! I finally found something online that got rid of it, but it was only after months and months of trying. I was ready to shave her head and burn the house down.

After I pulled the kids out of school I found out that the school we were in had the worst reputation for head lice in the county. Here, I was getting truancy notices and being called a bad parent and the school was actually labelled a bad lice school!!!!!

[ktgrok]

Well, you have all reassured me that CPS is not taking kids away for no running water. No indoor running water makes life more difficult....to stay clean, cook etc...but it CAN be done.

 

I'm much more disgusted by these people who let their kids KEEP lice. I have a theory that that is the reason we are seeing so much more cases of lice these days. When I was a kid NO ONE had lice. I never knew a single person who had lice. We heard 'stories'....always about the dirty people....I to this day do not know if they really had lice. If they did they didn't pass it on to any of us!

 

I had lice as a kid, in a good school district, etc. And lice actually like clean hair best, not dirty.

 

(my mom actually caught a louse and put it in a little bottle and took it to the pediatrician to make sure that is what it was. She opened the bottle and it jumped out into his beard!!! He was not amused, and told her not to bring anymore lice into the office!)

[katilac]

Well, you have all reassured me that CPS is not taking kids away for no running water. No indoor running water makes life more difficult....to stay clean, cook etc...but it CAN be done.

 

I'm much more disgusted by these people who let their kids KEEP lice. I have a theory that that is the reason we are seeing so much more cases of lice these days. When I was a kid NO ONE had lice. I never knew a single person who had lice. We heard 'stories'....always about the dirty people....I to this day do not know if they really had lice. If they did they didn't pass it on to any of us!

 

Just to clarify, catching lice has not a thing to do with being "dirty people."

 

And I promise you that some one you knew, at some point, had lice! They probably didn't say, because of all the stories about dirty people having lice, y'know?

 

Lice have been around for thousands of years. Some of the factors that may make it worse today: bigger schools, more overcrowded schools, resistance to meds, and so on. But where there are schoolchildren, there are lice.

[Deniseibase]

I think the water thing, and I'm basing this on what I hear from my sister-in-law the juvenile parole officer, is not so much about no running water as much as no ACCESS to water. In other words, if kids are in a situation where they cannot get a drink of clean water if they need it, that is a problem. Usually this seems to come up when the child is either confined or in a house that is completely ruled by neglect - i.e., there is no bottled water, no pump outside, no water in the house at all. Now I may not be correct, I'm just basing this on what I hear, but that seems sensible to me.

[Scarlett]

Just to clarify, catching lice has not a thing to do with being "dirty people."

 

And I promise you that some one you knew, at some point, had lice! They probably didn't say, because of all the stories about dirty people having lice, y'know?

 

Lice have been around for thousands of years. Some of the factors that may make it worse today: bigger schools, more overcrowded schools, resistance to meds, and so on. But where there are schoolchildren, there are lice.

 

I don't think so. It was different then. I graduated high school in 1983 so it was a long time ago....I lived in a small town...there was no lice. There is now. Almost everyone I know has had it INCLUDING ME RECENTLY. It is different now.

[Reflections]

I had lice as a kid, in a good school district, etc. And lice actually like clean hair best, not dirty.

 

(my mom actually caught a louse and put it in a little bottle and took it to the pediatrician to make sure that is what it was. She opened the bottle and it jumped out into his beard!!! He was not amused, and told her not to bring anymore lice into the office!)

 

:lol::lol:

[creekland]

I'd be more concerned about an occupancy permit than running water. In neither case would I expect kids to be taken away. It would only make a difference in whether or not one could live where they're expecting to.

 

What's needed for an occupancy permit depends a ton on the location - not state - but actual governing location. There are actually a few cases around here where one needs a paved driveway. I've often wondered why... I guess it's like homeowner association laws with tons of variance.

[lmrich]

I have friends whose father lost parental rights (not sure to what extent) because he did not have proper sewage. A proper outhouse would have sufficed; he just dug a hole in the floorboard of his cabin.... not ok.

[chepyl]

Well, you have all reassured me that CPS is not taking kids away for no running water. No indoor running water makes life more difficult....to stay clean, cook etc...but it CAN be done.

 

I'm much more disgusted by these people who let their kids KEEP lice. I have a theory that that is the reason we are seeing so much more cases of lice these days. When I was a kid NO ONE had lice. I never knew a single person who had lice. We heard 'stories'....always about the dirty people....I to this day do not know if they really had lice. If they did they didn't pass it on to any of us!

 

Maybe lice is worse because people are TOO clean. Lice prefer clean hair. They can also be hard to get rid of. You can wash a kids hair, but one washing with the right soap wont do it. You also have to do ALL clothes, sheets, towels, hair brushes and accessories. We had lice twice growing up, we bathed daily and washed our hair each time. We had to do 2-3 treatments on our hair, plus comb it with a fine tooth comb each time amd pull the eggs and lice out. We washed everything and all of our soft toys went in trash bags with some spray, and left in the garage for a week, then we ran them through the dryer. I think judging a family as "dirty" because they cannot get rid of lice is harsh. Clean houses get mice and roaches too. They can all be equally difficult to get rid of.

[kalanamak]

I didn't want to t/j Parrots thread about her building plans ....but someone in that thread mentioned that she had heard that CPS will take your kids away from you if you do not have running water.

.

 

I think this is a FOAF.

Edited June 28, 2012 by kalanamak
spelling!

[joannqn]

I've known people who've gotten lice and worked hard to get rid of them; they were not dirty people who didn't try to get rid of it.

 

I remember my elementary school having a huge problem with lice with large portions of the school being absent. We had daily lice checks in our classroom because of it. For some reason, I never got it. And in case that make some people thing I had dirty hair, my parents made me bathe daily.

[ocelotmom]

I don't think so. It was different then. I graduated high school in 1983 so it was a long time ago....I lived in a small town...there was no lice. There is now. Almost everyone I know has had it INCLUDING ME RECENTLY. It is different now.

 

I believe that there are resistance issues, and also that some of the more harmful (and more effective) medications were taken off the market. So it's entirely possible that it is really a bigger problem today than it was 30 years ago. Good school district, with lots of high income families who are concerned about appearances and all that.

 

I never had lice (um, with the exception of the single louse that apparently fell in my shirt when I was brushing DS's hair when he got them a few years ago, which bit me in an unfortunate place while I was riding my bike...), but I remember a few times when classmates got it in the mid-late 80s and early 90s.

Edited June 28, 2012 by ocelotmom

[Soror]

I think this is a FOOF.

 

? That is a new one on me----I'm trying to think of what that means but I cannot figure it out.

 

fwiw we always had lice checks in school, iirc a few times a year. I got lice when in high school. I let a girl borrow my hair brush, who was a bit notorious for having lice and such. I didn't want to be rude. Then I was embarassed and didn't want to mention it so I ended up with a pretty bad case before my mom noticed. We were at a game and I was sitting on the bleachers in front of her and I guess they were quite easily to see at that point even without close inspection. She took me straight away to get the OTC meds, which thankfully worked quickly and easily.

[Scarlett]

I believe that there are resistance issues, and also that some of the more harmful (and more effective) medications were taken off the market. So it's entirely possible that it is really a bigger problem today than it was 30 years ago. Good school district, with lots of high income families who are concerned about appearances and all that.

 

I never had lice (um, with the exception of the single louse that apparently fell in my shirt when I was brushing DS's hair when he got them a few years ago, which bit me in an unfortunate place while I was riding my bike...), but I remember a few times when classmates got it in the mid-late 80s and early 90s.

 

Never. Not one time. By 1983 my mom was teaching school in a different very poor and very rural school district and I believe right away lice was a problem for her students...5th grade mostly. So that is right about the time it began to be such a problem.

 

I am sorry for offending anyone by saying 'dirty' people cause/spread lice....as my brother says, 'no shame in getting lice---just in keeping them'. I know ALL about how to get rid of lice and how much work is involved. The years my mom was a teacher I learned all about it. And now that it is so much more common I KNOW that very clean good people get lice. But unless your kids are being reinfested at the same place, you should be able to get rid of them.

 

I stand by my general belief that a parent too lazy to delouse their children deserve to be slapped hard on the hand...if for no other reason they can't go to school with lice! And for the poster who had such a terrible time, I am sorry....indeed I am sure the school was the problem.

[Scarlett]

Just to clarify, catching lice has not a thing to do with being "dirty people."

 

I disagree. People who get lice and do not bother getting rid of it are dirty. I didn't say 'catching' it means you are dirty....but dirty people allow it to get bad.

[kalanamak]

? That is a new one on me----I'm trying to think of what that means but I cannot figure it out.

 

 

Friend of a friend. Common in urban myth stories.

[momtotkbb]

When we had our second dc - back in 1996 - one of the questions they asked was did we have water in our house? I looked at them really weird and said I didn't understand what the nurse meant. She looked annoyed at me and said, "Honey, do you have running water?" I thought she was asking me if we had a house that somehow had flooded or something, bec I had never met anyone or known of anyone who didn't have water that was run into their home. Luckily dh was there and told the nurse that we did have running water. The next questions were about electricity.

 

I finally regained my composure after feeling totally stupid and asked her why she was asking these questions. She told us that DSS (which is our CPS) did not allow babies to go home w/ parents if they did not have proper utilities. She said that if we hadn't had a home w/ running water, sewer or working septic, and electricity/gas we would need to find new living arrangements or our baby would be placed in fc until such time as we met the requirement.

 

Perhaps it's different for infants - but I know that last year there was a family in our state that was really trying to make ends meet, provide for their dc, etc. but their home was in bad need of repair and they had no utilities. DSS took their dc - the police officer who accompanied them felt really bad about it so he made calls and got a crew to help the family w/ work, fixing the house and getting utilities on so that the dc could come back home. The officer said he realized it wasn't a case of neglect and they really loved their dc and were trying, they just needed help. But, the kids were still removed temporarily.

[Joker]

I disagree. People who get lice and do not bother getting rid of it are dirty. I didn't say 'catching' it means you are dirty....but dirty people allow it to get bad.

 

I had lice four times in one year. It was bad. My parents couldn't get rid of it, but we were not dirty. My mom took me for several visits to some kind of expert (at a local college), but it was just going around and was difficult to avoid. This was in the 80's.

[Scarlett]

I had lice four times in one year. It was bad. My parents couldn't get rid of it, but we were not dirty. My mom took me for several visits to some kind of expert (at a local college), but it was just going around and was difficult to avoid. This was in the 80's.

 

I am sure that is possible. It doesn't change my general feeling on the matter....and my general knowledge. The 'family' that kept lice active in my mom's school was dirty. Maybe lice was a secondary issue.....but they were dirty. And it was/is people like them who caused kids like you to catch it 4 times in a year.

[Joanne]

I have friends whose father lost parental rights (not sure to what extent) because he did not have proper sewage. A proper outhouse would have sufficed; he just dug a hole in the floorboard of his cabin.... not ok.

 

This is an example of ...........

 

Well, here's the thing. There tends to be a visceral, automatic reaction in certain groups of parents about CPS. I've worked with CPS cases now in 2 job settings.

 

Here is my observation: It's a flawed system. However, by the numbers they do not take kids lightly, they often "err" on the side of keeping kids with their families, it typically takes A LOT for kids to get removed, let alone lose parents rights.

 

I believe most/many stories involving CPS and outrageous, family busting behavior are inaccurate, exaggerated, hyperbole, or outright lies.

[sbgrace]

I'm 39 and my elementary school had routine lice checks. I am shocked if there were no lice in any school system at any point.

 

When I was a senior in high school I ended up taking care of two children in the summer. My mother was a hospice social worker, their mother was dying and their father had to work. One girl was disabled (mentally and physically). They desperately needed care and couldn't pay anyone and so my mom asked me to do it. Half way into the summer I found lice on myself. The girls and home had lice. I tried to rid the girls and house but the parents couldn't follow through. Finally the health department sent in people to work on the girls and the house. They came in all garbed up with hair nets and gloves and outfits and acted like those girls and that house were the most disgusting and contaminated things they had ever seen. It was heart wrenching and horrible and as a Christian I kept thinking of how Jesus would have treated them. Your posts brought it back and it makes me cry even today to remember it. The non-disabled girl definitely knew how those people regarded her and her home. It wasn't her fault.

 

I also remember this boy in 2nd grade who was poor and dirty. I remember the teacher making him stand up so she could spray him and his seat with lysol. I remember his name--Toby and exactly what he looked like and I don't think I remember any other student in that class. So sad he was treated like that as it surely affected how the other children treated and thought of him.

 

 

Anyway, lice have resistance now to the chemicals that are allowed to be used which, I think, are different than in the past. Not being able to rid them doesn't necessarily have anything to do with clean or caring. In this case it was parental ability to follow through that made the lice difficult to get rid of. Surely you know one experience (mine or yours) doesn't make the rule though, right?

Edited June 28, 2012 by sbgrace

[Maverick_Mom]

Went through the whole lice nightmare when dd1 was in ps in first grade. This was a school that had "classrooms without walls" -- lots of carpet, and the kids sat on the floor for certain activities, and there were stuffed animals (class mascots). Perfect environment for lice to make their way around.

 

I hated how the kids (dd and several other kids) were singled out and sent home. I understand why -- I just think it was done in a way that humiliated them.

 

There were a couple of other moms of kids in her class who just never "got" the process of getting rid of lice. They thought that if they just combed the hair with vinegar, that would be enough. So they did that, and it killed the live lice, and they sent their kids back to school -- but of course the eggs hadn't been dealt with, so the problem rebounded.

 

It was awful. Every morning, for weeks, I would get dd up early and meticulously comb through her hair and examine her scalp, checking to make sure it was free of lice or eggs. It was a horrible time. We had used RID, but these kids -- and they were from "nice" families -- kept getting lice again, and I could not justify using RID on a regular basis -- too dangerous. In retrospect, I should've started hsing then, or at the very least kept my dd home and refused to send her back to school until they could certify that the place was lice-free. But I was still in awe of the ps system and it never occurred to me to stand up to them. Scary to think that I put them above my daughter.

[creekland]

When we had our second dc - back in 1996 - one of the questions they asked was did we have water in our house? I looked at them really weird and said I didn't understand what the nurse meant. She looked annoyed at me and said, "Honey, do you have running water?" I thought she was asking me if we had a house that somehow had flooded or something, bec I had never met anyone or known of anyone who didn't have water that was run into their home. Luckily dh was there and told the nurse that we did have running water. The next questions were about electricity.

 

I finally regained my composure after feeling totally stupid and asked her why she was asking these questions. She told us that DSS (which is our CPS) did not allow babies to go home w/ parents if they did not have proper utilities. She said that if we hadn't had a home w/ running water, sewer or working septic, and electricity/gas we would need to find new living arrangements or our baby would be placed in fc until such time as we met the requirement.

 

Perhaps it's different for infants - but I know that last year there was a family in our state that was really trying to make ends meet, provide for their dc, etc. but their home was in bad need of repair and they had no utilities. DSS took their dc - the police officer who accompanied them felt really bad about it so he made calls and got a crew to help the family w/ work, fixing the house and getting utilities on so that the dc could come back home. The officer said he realized it wasn't a case of neglect and they really loved their dc and were trying, they just needed help. But, the kids were still removed temporarily.

 

Out of curiosity, what state are you in or is it just local and not statewide? Perhaps you're in or very near a big city? I'm wondering how the Amish would be able to exist there... I suppose they'd start by not giving birth in a hospital, but beyond that... I could envision court cases. (I wonder what would happen if an Amish family wanted to move into municipalities where they require a paved driveway for an occupancy permit too, but that wouldn't have them losing their kids.)

[Mama_Rana]

When I was a kid (early 80s) lice checks were routine. We all got called down to the nurse's office one at a time and were checked.

 

I have distinct memories in 4th grade of the nurse coming to our classroom and checking our heads while we worked at our desks!

[Dobela]

When we were foster parents, we had one child that was removed fromhis home for neglect. One piece of evidence was 'no running water'. However, the family had never had running water and it only became an important issue when other problems in the family became evident. The baby was filthy as it had literally not been bathed in 5 months. They lived in a very rural area and also had no electricity. To get the children back however, they did have to have a well dug for water and electricity installed 'to insure proper cleanliness'.

 

As far as lice, I am 42 and I remember the lice checks in school in the 70s and 80s. One of my best friends, from one of the most fastidious homes, had to cut her waist length hair because it was found it in her hair. When I began teaching in the 90s, we did them regularly. My best friend, also a teacher, had a son that got lice. The dirtiest families did not have lice. It just passes from a fairly clean head to the next. If the head is oily or rarely cleaned, then the lice can't attach. One family in one school district never could seem to get rid of their lice and the school finally contacted the health department for help. The family was clean, but too poor to treat all the children and the bedding and other items in their home at the same time and could never quite kill all the lice.

[Parrothead]

When we had our second dc - back in 1996 - one of the questions they asked was did we have water in our house? I looked at them really weird and said I didn't understand what the nurse meant. She looked annoyed at me and said, "Honey, do you have running water?" I thought she was asking me if we had a house that somehow had flooded or something, bec I had never met anyone or known of anyone who didn't have water that was run into their home. Luckily dh was there and told the nurse that we did have running water. The next questions were about electricity.

 

I finally regained my composure after feeling totally stupid and asked her why she was asking these questions. She told us that DSS (which is our CPS) did not allow babies to go home w/ parents if they did not have proper utilities. She said that if we hadn't had a home w/ running water, sewer or working septic, and electricity/gas we would need to find new living arrangements or our baby would be placed in fc until such time as we met the requirement.

I wonder how urban of an area you live in to make such a requirement. I've heard that in this area we are still considered frontier since the area is so sparsely populated. The township we are moving to doesn't even have a code enforcement officer.

 

Your people in the country must not be "dirt poor" or living off the grid. And I suppose no Amish in the area either. Or maybe they don't utilize hospital services for child births.

 

When I talked to the CPS lady yesterday, she said dd had to not live in filth, be able to take a shower or bathe, and have stuff of her own such as toys and clothes. If we meet those requirements the running water thing is a moot point.

 

So if anyone knows me, they know I don't do clutter much less filth. The camp shower will hold 5 gallons. The shower won't be much or long, but a shower is available nonetheless. And as an only child and the only grandchild on both sides she most assuredly has stuff.

 

Perhaps it's different for infants - but I know that last year there was a family in our state that was really trying to make ends meet, provide for their dc, etc. but their home was in bad need of repair and they had no utilities. DSS took their dc - the police officer who accompanied them felt really bad about it so he made calls and got a crew to help the family w/ work, fixing the house and getting utilities on so that the dc could come back home. The officer said he realized it wasn't a case of neglect and they really loved their dc and were trying, they just needed help. But, the kids were still removed temporarily.

[Parrothead]

When we were foster parents, we had one child that was removed fromhis home for neglect. One piece of evidence was 'no running water'. However, the family had never had running water and it only became an important issue when other problems in the family became evident. The baby was filthy as it had literally not been bathed in 5 months. They lived in a very rural area and also had no electricity. To get the children back however, they did have to have a well dug for water and electricity installed 'to insure proper cleanliness'.

 

I think this is the thing. One can be properly clean without running water. It just takes a bit of effort. Running water has only been standard in houses for the last 175 years of human history. And even then not every family had running water. Dh's 90-year old grandmother tells stories of when electricity finally came to her house. She was a teen, and lived far in the country.

 

So it is one thing to have no running water, and another to wallow in filth.

[stripe]

I'm much more disgusted by these people who let their kids KEEP lice. I have a theory that that is the reason we are seeing so much more cases of lice these days. When I was a kid NO ONE had lice. I never knew a single person who had lice. We heard 'stories'....always about the dirty people....I to this day do not know if they really had lice. If they did they didn't pass it on to any of us!

 

I think you're mixing definitions of dirty. Someone with a greasy, unwashed head is dirty. Someone infested with bugs is dirty. But head lice like clean heads, so, while there are people in both groups (both bugs and unwashed), it's less likely that a greasyheaded unwashed person actually keeps lice.

 

Did you know pne person out of every five in the world has no access to a toilet? That doesn't mean they share with fifty others or that they can go to a paid public toilet. It means there is NO TOILET for them to use. One in five in the world. That to me is a lot more worrisome than a lack of running water or headlice.

[jujsky]

I would hope not! Many people in our area live without running water. Good water can be hard to find and rent around here is crazy. Dry cabins are often the solution to both problems. I dont think a lack of running water is bad parenting. Water is available from spigots at many locations in the area and people have been hauling their water from its source to their homes long before there was running water.

 

If the children are consistantly dirty/filthy and water for washing/drinking/cooking is not being provided then i can see it, but just a lack of water running from the tap should not put someone in danger of losing their children.

 

Some people in the US still really live this way? I was totally unaware of that fact. I don't think they could take a child away from a parent for lack of running water. There are plenty of homeless families, many with children, and they don't lose their children for being homeless.

[Parrothead]

Some people in the US still really live this way? I was totally unaware of that fact. I don't think they could take a child away from a parent for lack of running water. There are plenty of homeless families, many with children, and they don't lose their children for being homeless.

I lived in two areas that one could have running city water but it wasn't drinkable. I firmly believe that the yellow water I bathed in for 2 years is what started my autoimmune diseases.

[applethyme]

Where I live there are many families that have no running water and live in homes with dirt floors. My husbands co worker is a minister that runs a charity to that gives to those in need. He is always asking for beds and other household things. Last month they had a family of 6 that all slept on the floor and only had two plates and spoons.

[SKL]

About the lice issue, I think we give it more of a stigma than we need to. In many places around the world, it's just a given. I mean, sure, I'd rather not have it, just like I'd rather my kid not catch a lot of colds and flus, but it doesn't make a family disgusting if it happens.

 

My kids' school has had at least a couple incidences of lice. They check each child's head and make everyone wash their nap blankets more than usual. So far my kids have not caught it, but not because of any great parenting on my part. If they do catch it, it will be a royal pain, but no indication of my parenting skills.

[Tarreymere]

I live in PA where we have a lot of Amish. I also used to be an Rn and worked in labor and delivery. We also were required to ask those questions about having running water or a refrigerator, but we nurses were told that it was so that people who didn't have these things could get referred for assistance in getting those things in place. In all of my years I never once had a newborn referred to foster care because of it. To be fair, we really do live in a wonderful area for getting all kinds of assistance and I do know some ladies who did get refrigerators or stoves from local charities after being referred. I never heard that they were told they 'had' to accept those things or lose their babies, however.

 

Oh, just remembered that some people live in cabins that do not have a well. They usually have a cistern to catch rainwater for household use and sometimes they pay a company that comes with a water truck and fills the cistern. The drinking water they buy by the five gallon container in various places. It is not uncommon around here to do that, especially around the State Forests where it is very beautiful but often it isn't possible to put a well. I know we had drinking water delivered by Culligan for a while because the running water we did have from one well tasted nasty.

 

Dh does work in CPS, so I did ask him about this and he said that he does know some cases in which the families had no utilities and CPS was called to investigate. He said that locally if the families had clean homes and clean children and a way to get water CPS would offer referrals to assistance if the family was interested in that but would not get otherwise involved. He said that in the cases that CPS did end up getting involved and especially in the cases in which children would be put in foster care there was a lot more going on than choosing to live with no utilities.

 

As for the Amish ladies, some did give birth in our hospital. We still had to do the form, but we wrote 'Amish' across the top of it. I never heard of any of the Amish people being investigated by CPS for pretty much 'being Amish', and we do have some very strict Amish groups out here who deliberately do not have septic systems and use outhouses still. The running water in a number of cases is a pump attached to a windmill that pumps into a cistern that is gravity fed into the house, while some families have just an outside hand pump, and there is often no water heater in the families that didn't use propane. They heated water for washing on the woodstove. I have never heard of Amish families running into problems with CPS just for living their normal Amish lifestyle.

 

I guess things must be different in different areas. Maybe that is why the Amish settle in our area, because we don't have rules that interfere with the way they choose to live. We have a lot of areas around here that do not have building codes. Maybe in some areas CPS is not tolerant of people who do not choose to live a 'standard american' lifestyle and is more likely to give people like that a hard time even if they do take good care of their children. Seems unfair to me.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Rainefox

[lovinmomma]

Just a side note.... I can't stop scratching while reading this thread! LOL All of this talk of lice has me itching! :tongue_smilie:

[LuvToRead]

I remember my elementary school having a huge problem with lice with large portions of the school being absent. We had daily lice checks in our classroom because of it. For some reason, I never got it. And in case that make some people thing I had dirty hair, my parents made me bathe daily.

 

:iagree:

 

I was in grade school in the early 80's and our grade school was shut down and fumigated because of lice. We had lice checks all the time. My sister got lice several times, and I never did. We were both clean, but she has thick blonde hair, while I have super fine dark hair. I guess they just liked her better.

[Dory]

I'm 39 and my elementary school had routine lice checks. I am shocked if there were no lice in any school system at any point.

 

When I was a senior in high school I ended up taking care of two children in the summer. My mother was a hospice social worker, their mother was dying and their father had to work. One girl was disabled (mentally and physically). They desperately needed care and couldn't pay anyone and so my mom asked me to do it. Half way into the summer I found lice on myself. The girls and home had lice. I tried to rid the girls and house but the parents couldn't follow through. Finally the health department sent in people to work on the girls and the house. They came in all garbed up with hair nets and gloves and outfits and acted like those girls and that house were the most disgusting and contaminated things they had ever seen. It was heart wrenching and horrible and as a Christian I kept thinking of how Jesus would have treated them. Your posts brought it back and it makes me cry even today to remember it. The non-disabled girl definitely knew how those people regarded her and her home. It wasn't her fault.

 

I also remember this boy in 2nd grade who was poor and dirty. I remember the teacher making him stand up so she could spray him and his seat with lysol. I remember his name--Toby and exactly what he looked like and I don't think I remember any other student in that class. So sad he was treated like that as it surely affected how the other children treated and thought of him.

 

 

Anyway, lice have resistance now to the chemicals that are allowed to be used which, I think, are different than in the past. Not being able to rid them doesn't necessarily have anything to do with clean or caring. In this case it was parental ability to follow through that made the lice difficult to get rid of. Surely you know one experience (mine or yours) doesn't make the rule though, right?

 

That's horrible! In our ps here the kids come out one or two at a time and go down the hall. If they have lice we have the school call their parents and put a note in their backpack to take home. We NEVER shame them in front of the other kids. Some of these kids live in infested homes and their parents really don't put much effort into cleaning them out. The child should never pay for something that's outside of their control.

 

I have shampoo that I use that supposedly repels lice that I use on the kids before camps or things like that where I know they will run into other kids with lice. We have had lice in our house once and they got it from another kid at church who got it from a daycare kid. It gets passed around this town regularly.

[swellmomma]

Where I live CPS will get involved if you don't have running water. When we were investigated in past they checked that we had running water, that he had power, that we had natural gas (for the furnace).

 

As for lice, dealing with that battle right now. After using the RID and watching the live ones crawling through it and not dieing, and still combing live ones out after following the instructions on the bottle completely, I can see why a family would have continued issues with lice. It is not a mattering of allowing the kid to keep them, rather an issue of resistant bugs. Given the amount of screaming and flailing my dd does I can see someone missing just 1 and that is enough to restart the cycle. We did the conditioner treatment (after we had done vinegar, and RID) and that worked, and of course I comb daily, and I had my mortgage payment deferred so that I could et new brushes, new pillows, new hair elastics, new matress covers etc. If I had not been able to do that I would not have been able to afford anything to battle them until tomorrow. That would have been a whole additional week with them. Again not an issue of allowing anyone to keep them just an issue of lack of funds.

 

The stigma of lice is also what is preventing my parents from getting checked and treated though my mother is sure both of them have lice. They are not dirty people at all, they are just highly ashamed and do not want anyone to know about it, which is preventing them from dealing with it.

[Scarlett]

I'm 39 and my elementary school had routine lice checks. I am shocked if there were no lice in any school system at any point.

 

When I was a senior in high school I ended up taking care of two children in the summer. My mother was a hospice social worker, their mother was dying and their father had to work. One girl was disabled (mentally and physically). They desperately needed care and couldn't pay anyone and so my mom asked me to do it. Half way into the summer I found lice on myself. The girls and home had lice. I tried to rid the girls and house but the parents couldn't follow through. Finally the health department sent in people to work on the girls and the house. They came in all garbed up with hair nets and gloves and outfits and acted like those girls and that house were the most disgusting and contaminated things they had ever seen. It was heart wrenching and horrible and as a Christian I kept thinking of how Jesus would have treated them. Your posts brought it back and it makes me cry even today to remember it. The non-disabled girl definitely knew how those people regarded her and her home. It wasn't her fault.

 

I also remember this boy in 2nd grade who was poor and dirty. I remember the teacher making him stand up so she could spray him and his seat with lysol. I remember his name--Toby and exactly what he looked like and I don't think I remember any other student in that class. So sad he was treated like that as it surely affected how the other children treated and thought of him.

 

 

Anyway, lice have resistance now to the chemicals that are allowed to be used which, I think, are different than in the past. Not being able to rid them doesn't necessarily have anything to do with clean or caring. In this case it was parental ability to follow through that made the lice difficult to get rid of. Surely you know one experience (mine or yours) doesn't make the rule though, right?

 

Of course one example doesn't make the rule. And yes I have compassion for kids who have to feel bad...and for kids whose mother was dying and one child was diabled and all of that. But parents HAVE to follow through....and in this case maybe the father following through was having the health department come help him.

 

They CAN be gotten rid of! I do not know why everyone is so defensive about it. And when people DON"T get rid of them they are perpetuating the problem. My mom was a teacher for 18 years and the people who didn't get rid of them WERE the dirty people. Not just one family. Clean people who get lice GET RID OF THEM even if it is difficult---and I have seen some difficult cases.

[clarkacademy]

Well, you have all reassured me that CPS is not taking kids away for no running water. No indoor running water makes life more difficult....to stay clean, cook etc...but it CAN be done.

 

I'm much more disgusted by these people who let their kids KEEP lice. I have a theory that that is the reason we are seeing so much more cases of lice these days. When I was a kid NO ONE had lice. I never knew a single person who had lice. We heard 'stories'....always about the dirty people....I to this day do not know if they really had lice. If they did they didn't pass it on to any of us!

 

Lice are also attracted to the cleanest hair. It doesn't matter.

[clarkacademy]

Where I live CPS will get involved if you don't have running water. When we were investigated in past they checked that we had running water, that he had power, that we had natural gas (for the furnace).

 

As for lice, dealing with that battle right now. After using the RID and watching the live ones crawling through it and not dieing, and still combing live ones out after following the instructions on the bottle completely, I can see why a family would have continued issues with lice. It is not a mattering of allowing the kid to keep them, rather an issue of resistant bugs. Given the amount of screaming and flailing my dd does I can see someone missing just 1 and that is enough to restart the cycle. We did the conditioner treatment (after we had done vinegar, and RID) and that worked, and of course I comb daily, and I had my mortgage payment deferred so that I could et new brushes, new pillows, new hair elastics, new matress covers etc. If I had not been able to do that I would not have been able to afford anything to battle them until tomorrow. That would have been a whole additional week with them. Again not an issue of allowing anyone to keep them just an issue of lack of funds.

 

The stigma of lice is also what is preventing my parents from getting checked and treated though my mother is sure both of them have lice. They are not dirty people at all, they are just highly ashamed and do not want anyone to know about it, which is preventing them from dealing with it.

 

Have you tried the robo comb? I loved that when dealing with my neices heads.

[Scarlett]

I think you're mixing definitions of dirty. Someone with a greasy, unwashed head is dirty. Someone infested with bugs is dirty. But head lice like clean heads, so, while there are people in both groups (both bugs and unwashed), it's less likely that a greasyheaded unwashed person actually keeps lice.

 

Did you know pne person out of every five in the world has no access to a toilet? That doesn't mean they share with fifty others or that they can go to a paid public toilet. It means there is NO TOILET for them to use. One in five in the world. That to me is a lot more worrisome than a lack of running water or headlice.

 

I will give you that I am using the word 'dirty' in a confusing way. Contrary to popular belief lice do NOT prefer clean hair....they don't care if it is clean or dirty. So I do understand that the cleanest person on the planet can get lice. But there are groups of people who do either not know how to get rid of them or do not CARE. Generally the ones who do not know----FIND OUT. That leaves us with the ones who DO NOT CARE---who are too lazy to do the work to rid their kids and themselves of headlice. In those situatons....families who chronically are infested....they coincidentally also don't care about being clean. Thus the association with dirty people/lice.