nertsmommy Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 :rant: I'm just so aggravated right now. I know a couple who doesn't work. It's not because they can't get a job, they don't want one. The husband worked when they got married, but his wife made him quit his job because he was away from home too much. He worked an regular 40 hr week, no overtime, no weekends. She decided that she would support them with the "pay" she gets from the state. She has 4 kids of her own (between the ages 3-8) and has never worked (unless you count the drug transporting she claims to have done for money) and none of the dads are involved with the kids. I don't have a problem with people getting help when they need it. I just can't take their attitude. They are always complaining that they aren't getting enough "help" and things are expensive and why doesn't the state realize that they need more than what they are getting. :nopity: They can afford to have dogs, cats, and birds, cell phones, cigarettes, anything they want. They just bought a new swing set for the kids. I know it wasn't cheap because I've been looking at them myself. I'd love to get one for my kids, but can't afford it right now. I realize that putting food on the table is more important. Last time we got together (family function) I was talking with my mom about how tight money was and what we were doing to make ends meet (me budgeting more, cutting out unnecessary things and DH putting in more hours), the one mentioned above said, "have you applied for any help?" me: "we made $20 too much for anything, I checked a while back when DH wasn't getting as many hours so now I know we get too much." her: "just have DH quit working so much." me: "we wouldn't be able to pay all our bills then." her: "then he should just quit. If you can't get anything from the state when you're working then it's not worth it to work. I had my DH quit because he was always working during the week and I didn't get to see him and we lost some of our benefits. We didn't get married not to see each other and have to spend all our money on food and bills." me: :001_huh: :rant: Rant over now. I just needed to get that out. Back to my regularly scheduled life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 This is where it is upside down. There are people that are working their butts off, need a bit of help, but "make too much" even though they are living minimally (no extras). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashfern Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 :svengo: Seriously?! It's supposed to be a "safety net" not a way of life. :glare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I have a relative like that. She decided to get pregnant with her fourth out-of-wedlock child (at least 3 different fathers) because her live-in, jobless boyfriend didn't have any kids of his own and he "deserved" that. ?????? This is what she has told me to my face. She was briefly married to the dad of one or two of her kids, and her MIL helped them finance a minivan because they had no credit. MIL bought the van and her ds (who was working) was to make payments. They got a divorce and my relative kept the van but stuck MIL with the payments. She came up with some rationale as to why that was the right thing to do. One year she "homeschooled" her oldest (left him on his own with an online curriculum which he failed - he was around 10yo). Her rationale was that the other kids who went to the local public school were not good enough for her kids to associate with. (Translation: there were too many kids of color there for her taste.) I used to allow these things to make me angry. But honestly, I don't have energy for that emotion any more. I'm too busy working and taking care of my kids. Besides, don't you know it's a full-time job to make sure you're getting all the benefits available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissad2 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 This is where it is upside down. There are people that are working their butts off, need a bit of help, but "make too much" even though they are living minimally (no extras). :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 that's tough. not sure what i would do. in 53 years, i haven't ever encountered folks who choose to not work.... sorry, that's not much help.... ann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 that's tough. not sure what i would do. in 53 years, i haven't ever encountered folks who choose to not work.... sorry, that's not much help.... ann Oh, they are out there. Just after high school graduation, my sister had a friend who was out of work, pregnant, and unmarried. The friend was so thrilled with the money coming in that she actively tried to convince my sister to quit her job and get pregnant too. :001_huh: The mindset is unbelievable though, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiffanieh Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 This is why we need welfare reform. Plain and simple. I would say more, but it's probably best to not. People will continue to milk this system until the system changes. My mother tried to get assistance once when my brother and I were little. She was told point blank (by the welfare office) that she made a "wee" bit too much money to qualify for assistance. In order for her to receive anything for her to try and make ends meet, she needed to quit her job and they would cover that amount, plus some (the plus some she needed)! Ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeganCupcake Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I cannot imagine being able to live comfortably on state assistance. My DH was laid off in 2007 and unemployment insurance was virtually nothing. It would have kept body and soul together, yes, but just barely. I was also working nearly full time at the time and we struggled to make our house payment, etc. It doesn't sound fun to me. I can't imagine most people would want to do such a thing. Is it possible that these people are living primarily on credit (which a lot of people seem to do), rather than on assistance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) That sounds really tempting. ;) Edited May 22, 2012 by LibraryLover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpoy85 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Dh makes a tad too much for us to get medical or food. Then on the news they had Legal Aid on there helping people get Medical when they were denied based on income (apparently JFS has different income guidelines for Medical then the state- go figure) and we got approved for that for the girls. I would have to have triplets to get on Foodstamps again. Not literally triplets, but 3 more children to qualify based on our income level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 that's tough. not sure what i would do. in 53 years, i haven't ever encountered folks who choose to not work.... sorry, that's not much help.... ann I've met quite a few, and I'm unfortunately related to several of them and intimately acquainted with their thought processes. It disgusts me. We have a low income because of dh's desire to work in the trenches of social services but we don't apply for or receive any assistance. I would feel too guilty. However, there are those who deliberately plan any work hours they DO work (like one is a nurse who will only work part time and her husband is a cook who also will only work part time) so that their income remains low enough to get the benefits they want, and also some folks who don't report part of their income (tips) for the same reason. Don't get me started on the people who have coached their kids on the symptoms of mental illness so they can apply for disability income (third generation for some of them). They are out there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 :rant:I don't have a problem with people getting help when they need it. I just can't take their attitude. . that's not the kind of person you are describing. eta: I have a family member who was constantly getting "help" from another family member. I'd listen to her whine about money - she made more than we did and we were building a house. but she needed take out food, private school for her daughter, vacations that didn't require a tent, her husband needed beer and pot . . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeneralMom Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 When we moved from KS to TX our moving van was in an accident and almost all our things were destroyed. In between all the move costs, the cost of replacing the damaged/loss goods (we didn't buy the insurance because the movers were supposed do a straight drive down the highway - they detoured and decided to pick up another few things in another state and that is when they got in the accident so we received $800 for over $10000 in lost goods), and me being 28 weeks pg we had no money. I called to ask about assistance and was told that DH made around $60 too much for us to get even the minimum amount of help. I have a friend whose DH works a contract position and is only allowed to work 9 months out of 12 otherwise he has to be hired full time. He makes a 6-figure salary. Somehow, the way it works here you only have to show pay stubs for the last three months, so they have figured out how to get a full-ride (food stamps, WIC, medicare, etc) and their re-up date comes at the end of his 3-months being laid off so he can show that he hasn't earned any money in the last 3 months. What shocks me is that she brags about it, posts it on FB, and doesn't see anything wrong with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I'm on assistance and am frequently shocked by what i see and hear. In the summer months, many WIC offices offer fruit and veggie checks for the farmers' market. The conversation was with 3 other people who said they did not need that crap, but wanted the jarred baby food increased. Another person offered to run to a convenience store to get everyone lunch because they had over $700 in food stamps and did not need that much. They came back with almost $100 in lunchables, sodas, packaged sandwiches, ect. Lunch was offered to us but i declined. We went home and cooked lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 There will always be people who sponge off others. They will sponge off the state, or private charity, or their family. Don't imagine that this is a problem just of state welfare - it affects all kinds of private organizations involved in charity work as well. I have a few relatives who do this kind of thing - an uncle who bilks the state, an aunt who really can't work but who isn't above board with what she does either and who tries to get money from other relatives (and is sometimes successful). I think the thing is you can't take that personally. There is something wrong with their thought process, but it isn't about trying to screw over other individuals. In the case of my uncle, he was always like this, it may be the way he was born or something to do with his up-bringing - he is a man who creates myths about himself that he believes. My aunt I think had an upbringing where a better result was unlikely - I don't think she was ever considered as a person with something to offer, she was always a burden and that was how she came to see herself. And if that is what someone thought, why not take what you can get if God gave you such an existence? None of which is to say it isn't a problem and shouldn't be addressed when possible. But I tend to think the most successful answers won't be about "tightening up the system" so much as treating other people in a dignified way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I also think the system knows that when it comes down to it in the very end, the children will be the ones too suffer most. You cut off the mom who is going to bars and doing other things then how will the kids eat? Some people would gladly let their kids go hungry to give their boyfriend steaks or go to the bar. I have seen alot of single moms like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I can't remember the exact caption that I've seen before with this photo, but it was something to the effect that we should not feed these bears because they become dependent and forget how to take care of themselves. Furthermore, they teach their babies dependency too. The government should listen to itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_midori Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) This is why we need welfare reform. Plain and simple. I would say more, but it's probably best to not. People will continue to milk this system until the system changes. My mother tried to get assistance once when my brother and I were little. She was told point blank (by the welfare office) that she made a "wee" bit too much money to qualify for assistance. In order for her to receive anything for her to try and make ends meet, she needed to quit her job and they would cover that amount, plus some (the plus some she needed)! Ridiculous. :iagree::iagree::iagree: I normally stay away from this topic with people because I have strong opinions about it & don't want to get into a battle - but I cannot agree more!! The welfare system as it is must end... :( ETA: I have a relative who was unemployed for awhile & was SO ready to just "sit back & take in the money after years of working so hard & then being cut" (with the state paying unemployment and his parents providing any additional needed to, say, pay for the house he owns) that he constantly applied for jobs in the $300k + range with the spoken intent to not land a job, period. Edited May 21, 2012 by black_midori Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappyhappymama Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I think the worst part of this story is how it reflects poorly on those who genuinely in need. You hear about folks like this and then you hear about folks who are in dire straits and could really use the help, but will not apply for assistance because of the stigma attached. So people who shouldn't get assistance do and folks who should don't. I don't know what the solution is, but the problem is certainly frustrating. I know far more people who could use a hand up who are just over the line financially and are able to get no assistance at all. Some of the laws, meant to "reform" welfare and other assistance programs are really wonky and end up hurting the folks who need help. Just as a small example, last year when my husband was unemployed, because of the circumstances he did not apply for unemployment (when he could have). So we lived off of and depleted our retirement savings (and I was grateful for it). We have found in the last year that there are several benefits we could have applied for, such as deferments of school loans and waivers of tax penalties on those retirement withdrawals if he had been drawing unemployment. But since we did NOT receive assistance from the government during this time, we were further penalized by being shut out from other benefits that are supposed to help folks dealing with unemployment. To the OP, I am sorry you're having to see and deal with this. It's not fun seeing folks with an entitlement personality abuse the system in any context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie in OR Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Oh man, these stories just make me crazy. They are strapping a system that takes away from those WHO ACTUALLY NEED HELP!!! I really shouldn't read these threads because few things chap my hide like people who will not work when they can. OP, ranting with you ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I understand that it can be hard to watch people you think are getting a free ride. DH and I are in the highest tax bracket in the US and frankly, we don't care about stories like this though. If you want an easy life, you end up with a rather unfilfilled life and isn't that its own worst punishment? These people may get free peanut butter but they'll never have the satisfaction of collapsing into bed knowing they did their job well that day. They have no DRIVE to get anything better. They'll never sit around the kitchen table and ponder college with their kids and discuss whether or not NASA will be there in 20 years when the kids are ready to get their own jobs. They may have pets but their pets aren't on organic feed and the top restaurants in the area aren't vying for their duck eggs (true story! lol). Everything they have is probably of bare minimum standards. If they have a beloved pet get sick, they don't have the $2000 to fix him/her. They just go get another. Blech. They'll never plan a trip of a lifetime to Disney or whatever. They won't achieve their goals because they don't have any goals beyond more free food and lying around on their butts. So they get daytime TV and free food. Meh. I'd like that for about a WEEK and then I'd go insane. The fact that they aren't insane is more of a testament to their insanity than anything else. What a crappy way to live!!! I would rather these people get too much aid than people who are really hurting get less. I acknowledge that some people will take advantage of the system but I still believe enough in humanity that I want to aid people who need some help more than I would be willing to let them suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 The judgments against people who truly need some help are just staggering, as I've discovered. Either you're not doing enough or your dh isn't working 5 jobs like he "should" so that you don't have to use it or someone has noticed that you own something--ANYTHING--nice and wonder how in the world "you can afford that but can't feed your own children?" without having a clue what your life is like. :( I can totally see why good people avoid using assistance at all cost and out of shame! You're always wondering who is deciding in their own mind if you really "deserve" assistance and even though it shouldn't matter, it's a constant thing. Our church gave us food for Thanksgiving--end of the month is always so tight for us and it seems like the major holidays are always at the end! LOL--and I was terrified of what our pastor who brought it to us must think because we have computers set up for the kids to do school and a few years ago dh got a nice tv with a small part of our tax return. Will he think we really shouldn't get a turkey because we haven't sold every last "nice" thing we own or have been given?? The system is so messed up and abused. I know people with fewer children than we have, making more money, who get more benefit money than they know what to do with (and so they have HUGE pantries full of food and can host parties with the extra food just to use up the money or even buy food as gifts for others) and I wonder how this is?? (Not necessarily in our same state, btw, and I know it differs, but I don't understand how ANY family in this country could qualify for $1400/month in food stamps. :confused: ) Well, thanks for letting me rant anyhow! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 but can you really live? i didn't think you could get enough assistance to actually not work at all. i had no idea!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 The judgments against people who truly need some help are just staggering, as I've discovered. Either you're not doing enough or your dh isn't working 5 jobs like he "should" so that you don't have to use it or someone has noticed that you own something--ANYTHING--nice and wonder how in the world "you can afford that but can't feed your own children?" without having a clue what your life is like. :( I can totally see why good people avoid using assistance at all cost and out of shame! Indeed. There have been threads in here before where people have been told poor people shouldn't have kids if they can't pay for their medical costs themselves (most people I know with sick children didn't specifically arrange to have a sick child). I also think the pyramid scheme like workings of many insurance plans (health, life, etc) doesn't bother many people. So that it's perfectly acceptable to have your newborn covered for $1 million worth of heart surgery but a poor person should be personally responsible? Why is it the millionaire heads of these giant companies are smiled at benignly? Why are there so many threads about some lazy people and not posts about how awful it is that we are allowing people to be enslaved in our country so that our food can be nice and cheap? Why not posts about our own greediness? And let's not get started on how offensive it is to pay for poor children to go to school or get anything, limited help for things like drug treatment, but we're willing to pay BIG TIME to keep those big scary men in prison forever, at a pretty high rate. These conversations always end up somewhere very ugly, and I wonder where all the verses are in our holy books telling us to be tightfisted and cruel to the poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I cannot imagine being able to live comfortably on state assistance. My DH was laid off in 2007 and unemployment insurance was virtually nothing. It would have kept body and soul together, yes, but just barely. I was also working nearly full time at the time and we struggled to make our house payment, etc. It doesn't sound fun to me. I can't imagine most people would want to do such a thing. Is it possible that these people are living primarily on credit (which a lot of people seem to do), rather than on assistance? Most of the people I know who mooch off the government are simultaneously mooching off their relatives. For example, DH's best friend has a sister like this. The parents bought a car and a condo for her and the grandkids (different fathers, none still in the picture) to use but keep the assets in their name so that she can continue getting government assistance. DH's friend is fed up with his family and refuses to enable her any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterflymommy Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I'm confused though. I thought there was a limit to how long a person can be on welfare. Or is she making so much money from the fathers of all the kids? It doesn't make sense. Not saying there aren't people who do stuff like that, but I just wonder how they get away with it. Not an expert but I would guess the following. She and/ or some of the kids get disability payments. Possibly some garnished wages from the bio dads. I don't think WIC or food stamps have time limits as long as the kids are under a certain age. She might be receiving section 8 or public housing assistance which can go on indefinitely as long as income doesn't increase (so a clear disincentive to work more). With young children in the house they're probably all on medicaid. I think you can re-apply for welfare payments after a certain period of not collecting. A determined person could work the system pretty well, especially if they keep giving birth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeBlessings Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I really don't get how people could even get away with no one in the house working at all and living off aid these days. Back in the 80's sure, you heard about it and I even saw it a few times. But these days? Barring some mental/physical disabilities or problems I don't get it. In our state there is a time limit to how long an adult can get food stamps if they aren't working or receiving unemployment (and following unemployment rules, which also has time limits). As for the cash, your income needs to be ridiculously low and if you aren't working or on disability you absolutely are not going to get it without participating in a work program. A family of three would have to make less than $773 a month to qualify for cash, a family of five less than $1091. I just looked it up :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Why is it the millionaire heads of these giant companies are smiled at benignly? Why are there so many threads about some lazy people and not posts about how awful it is that we are allowing people to be enslaved in our country so that our food can be nice and cheap? :iagree: I read an article the other day about the people that work at warehouses for big mail-order companies like Amazon or Land's End. THere is no possible way for them to get ahead financially, the jobs suck all their time, energy, and health, and they have zero job security or benefits no matter how long they work. And the work environment is completely dehumanizing. Right now there are increasing numbers of jobs in this category as companies move to temporary workforces, and we shouldn't be surprised that more and more people drop out of the work world altogether, that they see work itself as dehumanizing and not worth doing and without dignity. When business is all about what you can squeeze out of the employee who is an easily replaced bit of flesh, you can bet that the bits of flesh will see the employer, or the state, or other people, as something to be squeezed for all it can give as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterflymommy Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Out of curiosity I just googled "how to live off the government." Apparently the secret is to file for social security disability before you file for welfare, food assistance, and housing. Some states cannot terminate benefits while a disability claim is pending. You then drag out the disability claim as long as possible, collecting benefits along the way. Once you're denied at the highest level, you file a new claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 we shouldn't be surprised that more and more people drop out of the work world altogether, that they see work itself as dehumanizing and not worth doing and without dignity. When business is all about what you can squeeze out of the employee who is an easily replaced bit of flesh, you can bet that the bits of flesh will see the employer, or the state, or other people, as something to be squeezed for all it can give as well. Working at the most cr*ppy job is better than mooching off of the hard work of others. People used to have this taught to them by their parents, schools, churches, even the media. It used to be seen as a moral issue (c.f. 2 Thessalonians 3:10, "If a man does not choose to work, neither shall he eat.") No wonder our country is going down the tubes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Working at the most cr*ppy job is better than mooching off of the hard work of others. People used to have this taught to them by their parents, schools, churches, even the media. It used to be seen as a moral issue (c.f. 2 Thessalonians 3:10, "If a man does not choose to work, neither shall he eat.") No wonder our country is going down the tubes... I can't see how people taking advantage of employees is better then people takng advantage of taxpayers. I don't think there's a "better". To the OP, it happens. Some people work the system. It's frustrating but you should try to avoid comparing yourself and what you have and can afford to them. That's very often the kind of thinking that started them down their path. If you can avoid them, do. If you can't, try to enjoy the good things about them. That lifestyle comes with some severe costs, most often intellectual and ethical. They're paying for their choices, just with a different currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_midori Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I can't see how people taking advantage of employees is better then people takng advantage of taxpayers. I don't think there's a "better". Employees can quit. Taxpayers can't. Except by quitting being employees - or making any taxable money at all. The best way to get the government & society to collapse is to make it more beneficial for people NOT to work than it is for people to work - that is not a sustainable position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 :iagree: I read an article the other day about the people that work at warehouses for big mail-order companies like Amazon or Land's End. THere is no possible way for them to get ahead financially, the jobs suck all their time, energy, and health, and they have zero job security or benefits no matter how long they work. And the work environment is completely dehumanizing. Right now there are increasing numbers of jobs in this category as companies move to temporary workforces, and we shouldn't be surprised that more and more people drop out of the work world altogether, that they see work itself as dehumanizing and not worth doing and without dignity. When business is all about what you can squeeze out of the employee who is an easily replaced bit of flesh, you can bet that the bits of flesh will see the employer, or the state, or other people, as something to be squeezed for all it can give as well. Sigh. You read an article? I've held factory jobs and worked my rear off with a good attitude (and actually enjoyed this more than some of my desk jobs). It is a means to an end, a step on the ladder, unless one is such a poor employee that nobody will give him a chance to try something more interesting. How anyone can find more "dignity" in choosing to be supported by the taxes (or other funds) paid by working folks is beyond me. It's attitudes like this that make me wonder if it really wouldn't be better to just give people bread and water if they won't work. Dignity schmignity. It's not up to employers to provide people with self-worth. Two people doing the exact same job can be at opposite ends of the satisfaction / self-worth spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova147 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 How anyone can find more "dignity" in choosing to be supported by the taxes (or other funds) paid by working folks is beyond me. It's attitudes like this that make me wonder if it really wouldn't be better to just give people bread and water if they won't work. Dignity schmignity. I can't imagine finding dignity in being supported by others. We're going through rough times and are getting some government aid as well as some assistance from family. DH and I have both struggled with our self-worth as a result. The other aspect I see is a lack of shame. If you have to go to a family member or friend for help, there is (usually) a feeling of shame. But to fill out a form and submit a bunch of paperwork to some stranger? Not so much. Sometimes I hear at WIC that we shouldn't feel ashamed for needing help. I don't know what to think about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephencurtisjoelle Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 My sister gets government assistance and has an I-phone. I don't have an I-phone, not in the budget. I love my sister, but I just think it is not proper for her to splurge on extras while the government takes care of the necessities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova147 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 My sister gets government assistance and has an I-phone. I don't have an I-phone, not in the budget. I love my sister, but I just think it is not proper for her to splurge on extras while the government takes care of the necessities. OK, since she's your sister, you know the details. But I have an iPhone. My parents gave it to me for my birthday. It's this general attitude that makes me nervous when I shop with my WIC checks. If I am buying other groceries, I feel like people might judge me because I bought something they deem an extra. I had a cashier make a nasty comment because I bought real maple syrup. Because, clearly, if I'm going to have syrup, it has to be made from HFCS and artificial flavoring. :glare: But it could be anything. People seem to want to make a list of things poor people can't have if they want help from someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kewb Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 To respond to the original post. People who abuse the system like that person are a blight. No matter what system is in place there are people who will figure out how to abuse it. I knew someone who was milking the system and it ticked me off. The entitlement mentality really gets to me. In response to everyone else with something negative to say: For every story of someone who is abusing the system there are hundreds of people using it like it was intended. To help them over a rough patch. They want to get off assistance and all the stigma that goes with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeneralMom Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 okay, I'll admit it, when I see someone in line using their I-phone and their kids all have phones or Ipod touches and stuff then I see them pay with their gov't benefit card it does make me mad. You're right, I don't know their situation and they might be struggling to make the payments for contracts they signed before they needed the assistance, but my selfish reaction is anger. I feel bad about it now...sorry :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I cannot imagine being able to live comfortably on state assistance. My DH was laid off in 2007 and unemployment insurance was virtually nothing. It would have kept body and soul together, yes, but just barely. I was also working nearly full time at the time and we struggled to make our house payment, etc. It doesn't sound fun to me. I can't imagine most people would want to do such a thing. Is it possible that these people are living primarily on credit (which a lot of people seem to do), rather than on assistance? My one set of relatives who do this work a minimal amount (she is a nurse, he is a cook and they know to the minute how much they 'have' to work to meet the employment requirements but not go over), and get food stamps, heating assistance, weatherization (they just got a new on-demand water heater, last year they got all new windows and a new frig), WIC checks (two kids under age 5), partial unemployment, free health insurance for the kids and subsidized medical insurance for the parents, money from somewhere to get one of their cars fixed, get free groceries from a food pantry and because they have a food stamp card they are welcome to visit a free clothing bank that has some pretty nice stuff. With the food stamp card they also have other doors open to them like child care assistance and a free furniture and appliance bank. Oh, and a free cell phone (!). Another relative (single mom of two kids) works a minimal amount and doesn't claim her tips. Her tips are fifty bucks on a slow night, over a hundred on a good night during the summer, and she works four to five nights a week. She gets food stamps, her utilities subsidized, her first and last months rent and security deposits either covered or subsidized whenever she moves (she has a felony on her record so she can't move into subsidized housing without an appeals process which she doesn't bother with), WIC, free childcare assistance (I think she has a five dollar a week co-pay for child care), medical coverage for the kids and subsidized care including dental for her that is free every time she gets pregnant, transportation vouchers, groceries from the food pantry and baskets of stuff during the holidays, and access to the free clothing bank and the free furniture and appliance bank. She gets the free cell phone too. Oh, and one baby daddy pays a little in child support, the other is in jail. They work a minimal amount I think because around here if you don't work you have to go to a job training class at 9 am during the week to get cash assistance. None of the ones I know like to get up that early. And yes there is child care provided for the class, along with transportation. Neither of these families has a credit card. I'm closely related so I get to hear how they talk about how they do this. They are all about what they can get, not what they can do for themselves. And if cash runs short and say the mom needs another hundred dollar purse, the both families sell a little weed or a little vicodin on the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I'm confused though. I thought there was a limit to how long a person can be on welfare. Or is she making so much money from the fathers of all the kids? It doesn't make sense. Not saying there aren't people who do stuff like that, but I just wonder how they get away with it. I can give you the phone number of a couple of folks who could teach you the ropes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 My sister has been unemployed (not intentionally) for 3.5 years. She's been looking for a job and working as she gets the opportunity. She also has a business that has its ups and downs; so far, it has not broken even, but things are looking better this year. She was on COBRA and unemployment until they ran out, and then she used up all of her 401K (and had to pay the tax penalties on that). Only in the past 6 months or so she's started to look into what is out there to keep her from being completely destitute. She got some help with her mortgage (interest only for a while). Negotiated settlements with a few credit cards. Got a little assistance with her propane last winter. She just started getting food stamps at $200/mo. For this, she had to sign a paper swearing that she was not also trying to get on Medicaid or welfare. (She'd looked into Medicaid and says she's not eligible, though I'm not sure why. She does have health issues, including thyroid, diabetes, and depression, but she quit most of her meds.) I reminded her that she's paid plenty of taxes in the past, and would be happy to pay more if she had a job (and the sooner the better). She still feels very strange taking the money. Honestly, I hope she feels better about it soon. What's shameful about wanting to eat? It would be different if she was in this situation on purpose. I'd be a lot happier to see people like my sister get a little more, a little sooner than to see folks "deciding" not to work since the government will give them money for cigarettes, drugs, etc., in addition to basic food. For example, I think COBRA should be heavily subsidized and last longer, and 401K early withdrawal penalties mitigated/deferred for people who are unemployed due to layoffs and such. (But mostly I just wish the economy would get back on track, so people who want to work can do so.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterflymommy Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 For example, I think COBRA should be heavily subsidized and last longer, and 401K early withdrawal penalties mitigated/deferred for people who are unemployed due to layoffs and such. :iagree: 8 years ago DH was laid off and we were denied medicaid enrollment because we had $5k in a 401k (we weren't trying to be sneaky-- we had no clue retirement accounts were considered in medicaid eligibility). So we could have withdrawn the money, paid the ~50% penalty, and paid for 2 months of cobra, then applied for medicaid all over again. But where's the logic in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeBlessings Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 My one set of relatives who do this work a minimal amount (she is a nurse, he is a cook and they know to the minute how much they 'have' to work to meet the employment requirements but not go over), and get food stamps, heating assistance, weatherization (they just got a new on-demand water heater, last year they got all new windows and a new frig), WIC checks (two kids under age 5), partial unemployment, free health insurance for the kids and subsidized medical insurance for the parents, money from somewhere to get one of their cars fixed, get free groceries from a food pantry and because they have a food stamp card they are welcome to visit a free clothing bank that has some pretty nice stuff. With the food stamp card they also have other doors open to them like child care assistance and a free furniture and appliance bank. Oh, and a free cell phone (!). Another relative (single mom of two kids) works a minimal amount and doesn't claim her tips. Her tips are fifty bucks on a slow night, over a hundred on a good night during the summer, and she works four to five nights a week. She gets food stamps, her utilities subsidized, her first and last months rent and security deposits either covered or subsidized whenever she moves (she has a felony on her record so she can't move into subsidized housing without an appeals process which she doesn't bother with), WIC, free childcare assistance (I think she has a five dollar a week co-pay for child care), medical coverage for the kids and subsidized care including dental for her that is free every time she gets pregnant, transportation vouchers, groceries from the food pantry and baskets of stuff during the holidays, and access to the free clothing bank and the free furniture and appliance bank. She gets the free cell phone too. Oh, and one baby daddy pays a little in child support, the other is in jail. They work a minimal amount I think because around here if you don't work you have to go to a job training class at 9 am during the week to get cash assistance. None of the ones I know like to get up that early. And yes there is child care provided for the class, along with transportation. Neither of these families has a credit card. I'm closely related so I get to hear how they talk about how they do this. They are all about what they can get, not what they can do for themselves. And if cash runs short and say the mom needs another hundred dollar purse, the both families sell a little weed or a little vicodin on the side. Where I live the minimum amount to work is 30 hours a week or earning an amount at least equal to the federal minimum wage multiplied by 30 hours. I guess if you made more than minimum the work requirement would go down. I was curious, so I looked it up. I was figuring the single mom must be working 30 hours to maintain eligibility. Honestly I think a single mom without help from family is doing good to work 30 hours a week, but that is just my opinion. I imagine its a lot to handle raising kids on your own, shuffling them around between school and/or childcare and home, needing to have a job that allows flexibility of schedule so you can be there for your kids when they are ill and needing to be picked up from school or childcare. If she's only getting support for one of the two kids she's probably getting less than $200 a month, maybe quite a bit less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterflymommy Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Oh, and a free cell phone (!). My hospital roommate (18 and on baby #2) had a gov't provided cell phone-- much nicer than mine. It could take photos and text. She yakked it up with the baby daddy and BFFs throughout the night, and snapped pictures for grandma. I can see how this could be considered a necessary tool for seeking employment, but that didn't seem to be her primary goal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 My hospital roommate (18 and on baby #2) had a gov't provided cell phone-- much nicer than mine. It could take photos and text. She yakked it up with the baby daddy and BFFs throughout the night, and snapped pictures for grandma. I can see how this could be considered a necessary tool for seeking employment, but that didn't seem to be her primary goal with it. Yes, the purpose of it is for medical emergencies, work, school, etc. However, they have to choose from one of three plans and can run out of minutes where, if the want more minutes, they have to pay for the extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 It's just sad. How do you stop the abuses without penalizing those who really need it? Let's face it, we can't even monitor CHILD abuse situations successfully, where a LIFE is at stake. How is the govt supposed to monitor every single welfare case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissad2 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 My sister gets government assistance and has an I-phone. I don't have an I-phone, not in the budget. I love my sister, but I just think it is not proper for her to splurge on extras while the government takes care of the necessities. This! This is what gets me. I drive an old car because it's what I can afford and I pray every day that it doesn't die. I do this because I would rather spend the money at the grocery store feeding my family. Then I see someone buying name brand everything and piles of junk food with food stamps then go into the parking lot and get into a new car. Well if I didnt have to lay for food then I could afford a car payment too. I would sell my car if I had to so I could buy groceries! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatashainDFW Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 This!This is what gets me. I drive an old car because it's what I can afford and I pray every day that it doesn't die. I do this because I would rather spend the money at the grocery store feeding my family. Then I see someone buying name brand everything and piles of junk food with food stamps then go into the parking lot and get into a new car. Well if I didnt have to lay for food then I could afford a car payment too. I would sell my car if I had to so I could buy groceries! No offense but I am on assistance and have a nice phone. I paid a penny for it and my mother in law pays the $10 a month to have it on her plan. We signed the contract for our car long before we needed help. Selling it really isn't an option when you live in a place with no public transportation and dh's new job cannot allow employees to walk on or off the property. My vehicle isn't new but its nice and we are so far upside down selling it is just not an option. Thankfully after 5 years dh has new employment even though training won't start for a month and a half. I will gladly hand over the food stamp card and budget so that the ridiculous price of insurance through the state (he will be a state employee) does not break the bank. To look down on people because they have something nice while on assistance is wrong. You don't know the situation in most cases. We moved halfway across the country so my dh could accept this position. Because of the move he no longer has his subsidized medical insurance. That means out of the about $1000 I will make this month I will have to drop over $200 for a single medication for him that is non-negotiable. There are two others that can wait especially if he is prudent about taking the one that is as needed. So while I am chatting with him on my cell phone and paying for my family's groceries with my food stamp card remember that you may not know my story. You don't know how much I just spent on prescriptions and doctors to keep my husband stable or why we needed assistance in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 My hospital roommate (18 and on baby #2) had a gov't provided cell phone-- much nicer than mine. It could take photos and text. She yakked it up with the baby daddy and BFFs throughout the night, and snapped pictures for grandma. I can see how this could be considered a necessary tool for seeking employment, but that didn't seem to be her primary goal with it. Uh, she was in the hospital having a BABY. Was she supposed to be working at the same time?? This is what I never get about rants like this. If this girl (and I think 18 is a GIRL) had an abortion, you'd have condemned her. She had the baby and you still don't like what's she doing. Seriously, how dare she send pictures of the baby to grandma??? This is why I happily pay taxes and keep my head down. I don't judge people in line before me in the grocery store if they have WIC and maple syrup. And I feel sorry for people who have a cart of government paid for CARP because they will end up feeling like CARP by eating it. I've seen people with on WIC with their 12 boxes of sugar cereal and their fat, unhealthy, unhappy looking kids with them. And never once did I think, "Gee! I wish I could have a free ride too!" I don't care if they buy cigarettes and need WIC. Haven't you ever smoked? It's freaking disgusting. It dries out your mouth, turns your teeth and skin yellow and REEKS. And then for fun, you get cancer at the end and likely will have cancer without decent health insurance and isn't that a BLAST in the US! I feel sorry for those people too. I feel empathy for anyone who choses to live without dignity and self-respect. Like I said before, the "luxury" of daytime TV simply isn't worth it. WTH is even on daytime TV anymore? Talk shows? Woot. What a life! :glare: My kids ran out the driveway tonight to ask their father how his day was, how many patients he saw, if he had to "beep" anyone's heart back to life. The people the OP is talking about will NEVER experience the pride of their children. Not.Worth.It.At.All. And woe to them for not knowing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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