simka2 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I did okay for awhile. But, after killing 3 copperheads and a coral snake this winter, dogdeing large black snakes (I think they are Cottonmouths) when I walk near the creek, and missing another coral snake last night that then slithered under the house.... I am struggling. :tongue_smilie: I am starting to miss colder climates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 ick, ick, ick! I grew up in Africa and I still hate snakes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I'm thinking a vacation in Alaska is in order. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frugalmama Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) They make a product called Snake-away that might help - I know we used it in the past when we had a problem with coral snakes. Edited April 4, 2012 by frugalmama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 We had a coral snake.... in our house! Yeah - that was fun. The animal control lady thought I was some ignorant mom who misidentified a king snake... Until she jumped 5 feet backwards and yelled, "that is a coral snake!" Duh..... We've had one on our front porch as well.... We get a LOT of snakes. Most are very timid, but you gotta watch out for those cotton mouths. However, you might be seeing indigo snakes or hognose snakes (non-venomous and far more common). It can be really hard to tell them apart when they are slithering around and you're trying to avoid them!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewellsmommy Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Could the black ones be black rat snakes? Not much consolation, but those are non-venomous and rather docile. :001_smile: I am sorry you have a snake problem. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 We had a coral snake.... in our house! Yeah - that was fun. The animal control lady thought I was some ignorant mom who misidentified a king snake...Until she jumped 5 feet backwards and yelled, "that is a coral snake!" Duh..... We've had one on our front porch as well.... We get a LOT of snakes. Most are very timid, but you gotta watch out for those cotton mouths. However, you might be seeing indigo snakes or hognose snakes (non-venomous and far more common). It can be really hard to tell them apart when they are slithering around and you're trying to avoid them!!! :D This was my suspicion, so I have refrained from killing them....even though they freak me out every. single. time! Especially, because I only get a glimpse before they launch themselves into the creek. :tongue_smilie: I might have to look into the snake away product. Thanks!:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne115 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 We had an encounter with a copperhead on Sunday. My husband opened the door to let our dog out. The dog walked right out. Then, my husband noticed the snake on the door mat. The dog stayed on the patio with the snake for a few minutes. He was totally oblivious! Luckily, we got the dog off the patio and my husband killed the snake. I am terrified of snakes so I am still peaking out the windows before opening the doors! Suzanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Shudder...:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 This thread is starting to make me lightheaded :svengo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisley Hedgehog Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Shudder...:grouphug: :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen in CO Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I grew up next to a swamp which is one of the reasons I love Colorado, my current elevation has some but not many. We had a couple of dobermans that were really good at killing snakes, especially rattlesnakes. They would also bark and get between us and the snake if we were in the yard with one. Those dogs saved of from many close snake encounters. We also all became very good with a garden hoe. They were great at killing the snakes without getting too close to them. I'd recommend getting a dog that can and will kill a snake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalypso Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I completely understand how you feel. We had a lively diamondback rattlesnake on our front porch on Sunday. I hate them so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I don't know what to say. :grouphug: I tend towards the "nuclear warhead method" of dealing with snakes and the very least would not be able to leave my home without a flame thrower because a toasted snake is better than a live one! Does anyone know what snakes truly hate so that Simka can get A LOT OF IT and spread it around the property. Maybe you should try to purchase a mongoose. Better yet, become a mongoose rescue center...between those critters, a shoulder launch bazooka, and a flame thrower, you might be able to take your property back from the evil. :D Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen in CO Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Maybe you should try to purchase a mongoose. Better yet, become a mongoose rescue center...between those critters, a shoulder launch bazooka, and a flame thrower, you might be able to take your property back from the evil. :D Faith Oh I like you :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Right there with you! Ds23 has killed two copperheads in the past week. Dd12 and Ds15 took a walk with our neighbors last night and the dad killed a copperhead that was in the road (we live on a dirt road in the country). August is our usual month for copperheads so seeing this many in April makes me want to shut the door and not come out until the next frost!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) I don't know what to say. :grouphug: I tend towards the "nuclear warhead method" of dealing with snakes and the very least would not be able to leave my home without a flame thrower because a toasted snake is better than a live one! Does anyone know what snakes truly hate so that Simka can get A LOT OF IT and spread it around the property. Maybe you should try to purchase a mongoose. Better yet, become a mongoose rescue center...between those critters, a shoulder launch bazooka, and a flame thrower, you might be able to take your property back from the evil. :D Faith Yes, please!!! Dh had just mowed and trimmed the yard, so I think this particular snake had his home chopped down. :tongue_smilie: I have two dogs that spend all night under the house and in the yard so I was really surprised to see it so close to the house. Ick! I am now terrified that it is somewhere in the house!!! Edited: I am looking into guinea's as I think they are capable of taking on a snake, but I am a little concerned for my gardens. Edited April 4, 2012 by simka2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebra Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 People are always horrified that I live practically in Antarctica (;) :lol:) and my response is THERE ARE NO SNAKES! Which isn't exactly true - we have wimpy snakes that look like long worms (that I am terrified of) and sometimes people let scary ones outside....but the point is, I could not handle living in a place like you guys are describing. You guys are my heroes :lol:!!! And I will take having an Easter egg hunt in 73 feet of snow, and having to wear my winter coat at the 4th of July bbq ANY DAY over what you guys are dealing with :lol::lol::lol::lol:!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Oh my! I would never leave the house. Have you had good training in identifying and "deactivating" them? Aren't coppermouths one of the most venomous snakes around? Ohhhhhhhhhh :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Love Faith's posts! When we lived on the ranch, we found having hooved animals around the place keep snakes away. Is there a way to host a couple of goats, a calf, or a horse for a while? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookfiend Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 We have issues with copperheads in this part of the country also. My BIL told me that you can spread mothballs around an area where they might live (or you don't want them to), and they will leave. Seemed like a cheap solution to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 Love Faith's posts! When we lived on the ranch, we found having hooved animals around the place keep snakes away. Is there a way to host a couple of goats, a calf, or a horse for a while? One whole side of the yard is connected to the horse and goat pastures. I do not like the goats in the yard beacasue they eat my Kumquat and Meyer lemon trees, but I wonder what would happen if I moved them for awhile and allowed the goats access. They might go after the garden. Hmmmmm....:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 :grouphug: I get it. I'm still in the habit of looking down when I go outside. It also feels weird to walk around the yard barefoot. I figured you'd have seen an alligator by now actually. Sorry you're having issues, ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 :grouphug: I get it. I'm still in the habit of looking down when I go outside. It also feels weird to walk around the yard barefoot. I figured you'd have seen an alligator by now actually. Sorry you're having issues, ugh. Actually, the guy on the neighboring ranch, just told me that they used to have alligator in the swapy area on the back acerage. :001_huh: ....between that and the cottonmouths we do not let the kids back there anymore! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroe1 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I do not know if this will help or not. But we have large 5ft or so black racers around our home. They eat rattlers and coral snakes. I have seen a pygmy rattler once, but it did not last long. We have a couple of alligators in the backyard, too. They are the least of the scary animals one has in southern Florida living backed up against a nature preserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 I do not know if this will help or not. But we have large 5ft or so black racers around our home. They eat rattlers and coral snakes. I have seen a pygmy rattler once, but it did not last long. We have a couple of alligators in the backyard, too. They are the least of the scary animals one has in southern Florida living backed up against a nature preserve. Can I buy these somewhere? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmom2011 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 :001_huh: :eek: :ack2::svengo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyCrazyMama Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Yes, please!!! Dh had just mowed and trimmed the yard, so I think this particular snake had his home chopped down. :tongue_smilie: I have two dogs that spend all night under the house and in the yard so I was really surprised to see it so close to the house. Ick! I am now terrified that it is somewhere in the house!!! Edited: I am looking into guinea's as I think they are capable of taking on a snake, but I am a little concerned for my gardens. My dh has heard that peafowl are great for keeping rattlers away but I don't know if that is true or if it is true how they fair with other snakes or what they might do to a garden. Edited April 4, 2012 by Happyhomemama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Can I buy these somewhere? ;) Hmm...buying gators... well, it's not actually illegal to own one in Michigan it's just a really stupid place to try to keep one because as soon as the baby thing outgrows it's large aquarium and decides your arm looks like good food, the only thing to do is release it into the wild WHICH IS ILLEGAL and then it dies when Michigan winter hits or the more popular thing to do and pretty much the only reason anyone pays $99.00 for them at the exotic pet store is so it can become boots or a purse...Yep, that's the land I live in and NO, I'm not proud of it either. So, let's see....there is a baby gator for sale at the exotic pet store one county over...$99.00 plus cost of coming to Michigan to get it...turn it loose in your yard, hope it doesn't decide your kids look like good munchies! Yep, that'll work! :D:biggrinjester::smilielol5: I think I'd stick with the mongoose farm and incindiary devices...time to check out the good stuff at your local army surplus store! ;) Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Education Explorers Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) This thread has made me feel literally nauseous. I am beyond terrified of snakes regardless of any venom they may or may not carry. I think I would take to wearing steel-toed combat boots over a kevlar body suit. It would be very cumbersome since I think I would need to take some of the advice here and always carry a hoe, flame-thrower and probably a samurai sword too (a machete's blade would simply be too short). It is a shame that Steve Irwin is no longer alive. I would've recommended that you invite him over for a wee visit, let him exclaim, "Crikey, what a beauty!" and let him take them all back home with him. Perhaps you might want to consider a move onto a houseboat and live in the Gulf or the ocean depending on which coast you are closest to... Yuck! I do not envy you your snake issues. You are a good sport, because I would completely LOSE it!!! Edited April 4, 2012 by Education Explorers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookfiend Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 This thread has made me feel literally nauseous. I am beyond terrified of snakes regardless of any venom they may or may not carry. I think I would take to wearing steel-toed combat boots over a kevlar body suit. It would be very cumbersome since I think I would need to take some of the advice here and always carry a hoe, flame-thrower and probably a samurai sword too (a machete's blade would simply be too short). It is a shame that Steve Irwin is no longer alive. I would've recommended that you invite him over for a wee visit, let him exclaim, "Crikey, what a beauty!" and let him take them all back home with him. Perhaps you might want to consider a move onto a houseboat and live in the Gulf or the ocean depending on which coast you are closest to... Yuck! I do not envy you your snake issues. You are a good sport, because I would completely LOSE it!!! Yes, but then she would have to consider sharks and jellyfish... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 :D This was my suspicion, so I have refrained from killing them....even though they freak me out every. single. time! Especially, because I only get a glimpse before they launch themselves into the creek. :tongue_smilie: I might have to look into the snake away product. Thanks!:001_smile: A couple ways to tell the difference from a distance: a cottonmouth is a fat snake, kind of short and fat both. Black snakes are of a pretty medium build. A cottonmouth swims on top of the water. Most snakes swim under the water if they go in. (I haven't seen a black snake swim, so don't know for sure.) I was skinny-dipping in a pond once when a big ole cottonmouth came swimmin' by. :eek: Up close, the cottonmouth has a viper -shaped head (fat diamond) and a black snake has a slender, more oval shaped head. Black snakes are white underneath with black checkerboard pattern on those scales. (Never looked underneath a cottonmouth!) If they are blacksnakes, you want to keep them. They compete for the same food sources as the copperheads, so you'll indirectly be impacting copperheads by letting the black rat snakes live. You will usually see copperheads at dusk or at night. Once it's warm and they come out of hibernation, I don't get out of the car at night without a flashlight. Also, keep all leaf litter swept up. YOu cannot see them on dead leaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Also, keep all leaf litter swept up. YOu cannot see them on dead leaves. You do realize that snake fearers every where are TERRIFIED of this new found piece of information!!!!! Where is the running away screaming at the top of your lungs emoticon when you need it????????? Thank goodness I live in Michigan and our only poisonous snake residing outside of the Detroit zoo is the Missisauga rattler which is very low in number - most of us would not care if it became extinct and might even throw some sort of extinction party on its behalf - and one hasn't been seen in my area for over a decade. Faith - now beginning to believe that a good thing would to go get a few tons of coal ash (generally higher in uranium radiation than even standard nuclear sludge - it's amazing the things geeky little 4-H science boys find out in their quests for endless ways to blow themselves up!) and spread it around the Simka's yard like mulch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 This thread has made me feel literally nauseous. I am beyond terrified of snakes regardless of any venom they may or may not carry. I think I would take to wearing steel-toed combat boots over a kevlar body suit. It would be very cumbersome since I think I would need to take some of the advice here and always carry a hoe, flame-thrower and probably a samurai sword too (a machete's blade would simply be too short). It is a shame that Steve Irwin is no longer alive. I would've recommended that you invite him over for a wee visit, let him exclaim, "Crikey, what a beauty!" and let him take them all back home with him. Perhaps you might want to consider a move onto a houseboat and live in the Gulf or the ocean depending on which coast you are closest to... Yuck! I do not envy you your snake issues. You are a good sport, because I would completely LOSE it!!! :iagree: I don't do snakes. I don't care what color or origin, venom or not. They are creepy. DH saw one on the sidewalk while out for a run a few weeks back. On our family walk last night, we walked past that sidewalk right beside a "wilderness" part of the neighbourhood. I walked, and made the kids ride their bikes in the middle of the street on that block to keep more distance between us and the wilderness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink and Green Mom Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 :svengo:why oh why did I open this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne115 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 . Also, keep all leaf litter swept up. YOu cannot see them on dead leaves. The day after we found the copperhead on our patio someones told us to make sure we clean up all the dead leaves out of our yard. We haven't gotten around to cleaning up yet. Yesterday, I was taking the puppy outside and there is a leaf pile right beside the door. I walked out and heard something moving in the leaf pile. I almost jumped out of my skin. I have such an irrational fear of snakes. It ended up being a frog. The leaves will be removed this weekend!!! Suzanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 You do realize that snake fearers every where are TERRIFIED of this new found piece of information!!!!! Where is the running away screaming at the top of your lungs emoticon when you need it????????? Thank goodness I live in Michigan and our only poisonous snake residing outside of the Detroit zoo is the Missisauga rattler which is very low in number - most of us would not care if it became extinct and might even throw some sort of extinction party on its behalf - and one hasn't been seen in my area for over a decade. Faith - now beginning to believe that a good thing would to go get a few tons of coal ash (generally higher in uranium radiation than even standard nuclear sludge - it's amazing the things geeky little 4-H science boys find out in their quests for endless ways to blow themselves up!) and spread it around the Simka's yard like mulch. FAITH!!!!!!! IF YOU WERE NEAR I'D CLUTCH YOU DESPERATELY AND WE'D STAND HERE, SCREAMING AND QUIVERING TOGETHER, BECAUSE I KNOW THIS THREAD IS FREAKING YOU OUT AS MUCH AS IT IS ME!!!! WHERE ARE YOUR PATRIOT MISSLES??? WHERE ARE THE GRENADES???? Oh Simka----- I would immediately pack a suitcase, (after checking it for reptilian stowaways) call a realtor and head north!!! Or if I had a bomb I'd toss that in the shed as I left..... LITERALLY HORRIFIED, astrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 You lasted longer than I would have before I could say I was having a problem. The first snake would have been a problem. The one that got in our house in GA was a HUGE problem to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I actually like snakes.... Even the coral snake was just so pretty :) I'll take snakes over rats and mice any day, and we'd be over run here by both without the snakes. As for keeping them away, I've heard that moth balls can do the trick. You'd surround your property line with them. The problem is that you may be trapping the snakes inside your yard if you don't know they are there.... Same issues with the snake away. For most snakes, just be loud. They will usually get away from you as fast as they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellers Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 ... I am looking into guinea's as I think they are capable of taking on a snake, but I am a little concerned for my gardens. Many many years ago we had guineas, and then one of our dogs killed them all. I bought fertilized guinea eggs on ebay and hatched them at home. We had far less snakes around when we let the guineas free range, but I never saw them kill a snake. The guineas never messed with any potted plants. They make the best guard dogs. I miss having them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Education Explorers Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Yes, but then she would have to consider sharks and jellyfish... But luckily most of those remain in the water and don't come onto your boat. Don't get me started about her taking a dip in the ocean because even though I was born and raised in Florida, I am also terrified of sharks. FAITH!!!!!!! IF YOU WERE NEAR I'D CLUTCH YOU DESPERATELY AND WE'D STAND HERE, SCREAMING AND QUIVERING TOGETHER, BECAUSE I KNOW THIS THREAD IS FREAKING YOU OUT AS MUCH AS IT IS ME!!!! WHERE ARE YOUR PATRIOT MISSLES??? WHERE ARE THE GRENADES???? Oh Simka----- I would immediately pack a suitcase, (after checking it for reptilian stowaways) call a realtor and head north!!! Or if I had a bomb I'd toss that in the shed as I left..... LITERALLY HORRIFIED, astrid I thought about adding a grenade to my carry all list, but didn't think they would be too effective. How would I ever manage to pull the pin when I would be trembling violently. Not to mention, who could throw it with any accuracy when you are running around screaming like a banshee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Uggghhhh... I don't envy you one bit! If I had that many snakes to deal with, I'd probably move. Can't handle snakes. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 FAITH!!!!!!! IF YOU WERE NEAR I'D CLUTCH YOU DESPERATELY AND WE'D STAND HERE, SCREAMING AND QUIVERING TOGETHER, BECAUSE I KNOW THIS THREAD IS FREAKING YOU OUT AS MUCH AS IT IS ME!!!! WHERE ARE YOUR PATRIOT MISSLES??? WHERE ARE THE GRENADES???? Oh Simka----- I would immediately pack a suitcase, (after checking it for reptilian stowaways) call a realtor and head north!!! Or if I had a bomb I'd toss that in the shed as I left..... LITERALLY HORRIFIED, astrid And this is why I am very angry with Army surplus stores for NOT selling armed grenades and grenade launchers to the American public. I'm sorry! This is a matter self-defense and we should be able to blow up our own snake ridden sheds without reprisal from the government! :D The "Right to Bear Arms" also includes the right to bear any arm that will instantaneously turn a snake to ash. You know....we've put humans on the moon, landrovers on Mars, probes past Jupiter, and I can see satellite images from space of my own podunk, piddly town...one would think that the technology to protect humans from snakes would exist. It's a government conspiracy, I know it! Somewhere deep in the bowels of some Department of Defense research facility, lurks a geeky little genius weasel who has devised the ultimate snake defense and it's a carefully guarded state secret. I think it's time we marched on Washington and demanded answers! :biggrinjester: Faith - virtually hugging Astrid and hoping we don't have snake dreams tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Wow. I will take my bears any day over snakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaT Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Wow. I will take my bears any day over snakes. Me too! Shiver!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Wow. I will take my bears any day over snakes. Me too! I think I may look for jobs, for dh in Alaska. Growing up in the PNW we just did not have snakes....well, tiny little garter ones. This is terrifying! Edited April 4, 2012 by simka2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennay Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 wow. RIght now I am very, very glad to live where I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS in LA Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 My parents and grandparents always scattered mothballs around under their cabin (in VA) to keep the snakes away. We were definitely raised to fear snakes. Daddy + shovel = my hero! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvingLife Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Another reason why I love living in New England, I am terrified of snakes!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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