legal action by extended family member who doesn't like homeschooling?

[Sharon37127]

I'm not going to share too many depressing details here since no one really knows me, but I have a legal situation. Before anyone asks- yes, we do have legal representation (no, not HSLDA- yet), but our attorney isn't all that familiar with homeschool law. Due to a manipulative family member, we felt better represented by a family attorney.

 

I am a homeschooling, SAHM of multiple kids. We are an intact family in agreement with homeschooling. Oh, we also use the "private school/ umbrella school" option here where it is perfectly legal. We've been plugging along for a few years now. An extended family member has become very vocal with concerns regarding the legality of our homeschooling and the effectiveness. He is using an inappropriate court venue to vocalize those concerns.

 

I am not asking for legal advice or input into our legal situation. I am rather looking for support and advice if anyone else has had an extended family member take things this far. I've seen wonderful threads where people have said unkind remarks to homeschooling families and people here support them and offer advice on what to say to these people. I don't have the luxury here of "turning the other cheek" and changing the subject. I will be in front of a judge very soon defending myself against this person. We have great support locally, but no one has ever been in a situation like this.

 

Anyone? thanks

Edited March 27, 2012 by Sharon37127
identifying information

[Wolfmeis]

I am so sorry. I have no advice, but I know I speak for many when I say this is a dreaded outcome. You know you're right, milady, and you have support here. ((hugs))

[Slartibartfast]

Wow, why would such a thing even go before a judge?

 

I don't think anything like that could make it to court here. What is his case?

[Wendi]

Wow, I'm really sorry. I have never even heard of anyone else experiencing that. How heartbreaking for you. :grouphug:

 

Wendi

[5kidsforME]

Get HSLDA involved now. People can say what they want about them but they will help you win this fight.

[cin]

Get HSLDA involved now. People can say what they want about them but they will help you win this fight.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

At the very least, they can provide data and support for your attorney, regarding the legality of homeschooling. Maybe do a co-counsel thing. Especially if your current attorney is NOT familiar with homeschooling. If the basis of this is homeschooling, then you will need to be able to defend it based on laws.

 

At least that's my opinion. :D

[Carol in Cal.]

I'm not going to share too many depressing details here since no one really knows me, but I have a legal situation. Before anyone asks- yes, we do have legal representation (no, not HSLDA- yet), but our attorney isn't all that familiar with homeschool law. Due to a manipulative family member, we felt better represented by a family/ dependency attorney.

 

I am a homeschooling, SAHM of 4 kids (3 school- aged). We are an intact family in agreement with homeschooling. Oh, we also use the "private school/ umbrella school" option here in FL where it is perfectly legal. We've been plugging along for almost 3 years now. An extended family member has become very vocal with concerns regarding the legality of our homeschooling and the effectiveness. He is using an inappropriate court venue to vocalize those concerns.

 

I am not asking for legal advice or input into our legal situation. I am rather looking for support and advice if anyone else has had an extended family member take things this far. I've seen wonderful threads where people have said unkind remarks to homeschooling families and people here support them and offer advice on what to say to these people. I don't have the luxury here of "turning the other cheek" and changing the subject. I will be in front of a judge very soon defending myself against my father. We have great support locally, but no one has ever been in a situation like this.

 

Anyone? thanks

 

My parents opposed me homeschooling, but never to the point of legal action. I took a clear stance with them. In front of DD, I changed the subject every time a criticism was voiced, but after making a flat declaration of a fact that I was certain of that justified our decision, but making it with a smile and implication that they agree with and are aware of that information. This was so that DD would not doubt what we were doing but also would think that the GP's were honored in our family.

 

When DD was not present, I would engage in discussions if they wanted to, but would never let myself show anger or disrespect. It was exhausting.

 

Here's the thing, though. I was always completely covered legally, so there was no question about whether what we were doing was basically legal or not. And I knew this better than they did. Also, it was impossible to argue with the results that we were getting. DD was engaged, delightful, and clearly academically capable. She demonstrated a range of learning and a plethora of experiences that were unassailable. Homeschooling is not always that way though. There are a lot of people who homeschool because their child will not manage school well, and outsiders often blame homeschooling for the inherent challenges that that child has, even though their parents are clear that homeschooling has helped mitigate those challenges. That is something that is difficult to demonstrate and the accusation that homeschooling does not serve the child well is hard to disprove. However, the law favors parental rights as long as the parents are not demonstrably neglectful, unless there is a divorce going on. In family court I have seen judges favor 'normalcy' in a way and to an extent that is probably not enforceable on appeal, but that is exceedingly difficult and expensive to fight.

 

Since there are legal issues, you really have to back off and not risk giving your dad any more ammo. And if you are being fought in family court, be very, very careful.

[oraetstudia]

:grouphug:

 

Awful situation. I haven't heard of it happening, but I have to wonder what the allegations are and what remedy exactly he is seeking, that would actually get all the way to court.

 

I'm sorry.

[Denisemomof4]

when we registered with the umbrella school, they kept records of what we were using and the year end testing/evaluations. They were an extra added layer of protection and I was also a member of HSLDA. I have nothing representing us now.

 

I do think HSLDA will come in and help at this point. I don't know of any other agencies but I think I want to have membership with one because I never know what rabbit my adopted child will pull out of her hat. I just think it will be wise for us.

 

I'm really sorry you're going through this. We have three generations of mental illness in the family. I had a mentally ill family member (is your father mentally ill?) who was upset with dh and I because they didn't get their way, file a grudge report with CPS. It was found that this person was hostile (and mentally ill) and that we did nothing wrong. Still, the experience was earth shattering and I haven't been the same since. I understand your anguish and your fear. I'm really sorry.:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[G5052]

:grouphug:

 

But frankly, having been through several legal battles with extended family, I'd stop posting anything about it on Internet. My lawyers have always been emphatic about that.

[Terrilth]

I would contact Homeschool Legal Advantage in addition to HLDA. They are a Christian organization but I have worked with one of the attorneys and they are PASSIONATE about protecting our rights as homeschoolers.

[Jean in Newcastle]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: The only thing I would suggest besides making sure that you are in compliance with all laws, is that once this is resolved, you cut off all contact with this person.

[Night Elf]

Wow, I'm so sorry. What a terrible situation. I don't care if he is my father, I'd drop contact like a hot potato once he started threatening my family. That's just plain crazy.

 

If you can't get HSLDA involved, look for support organizations in your state that your attorney can read the actual homeschooling laws. If the judge sees you are in compliance, it just wouldn't make sense for him/her to demand you stop homeschooling. The only exceptions I can think of are if you can be shown as an unfit parent, such as being a threat to your children, or if you are not in compliance with the homechool laws.

 

FWIW, (we're in Georgia) when I got full custody of my oldest dd at the age of 14, her dad wanted to take me to court to complain about my homeschooling my other children, knowing she would probably be homeschooled as well. My ex-husband considered homeschooling to be an act of negligence and thought I would be proven as an unfit mother because of that choice. My attorney talked with his attorney and that idea was dropped. BTW, we didn't even go to court for custody because everything was legal and cut and dry. My ex-husband didn't have a leg to stand on. I'm truly surprised that your dad is able to get as far as he did.

[Denisemomof4]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: The only thing I would suggest besides making sure that you are in compliance with all laws, is that once this is resolved, you cut off all contact with this person.

 

:iagree: and, never discuss homeschooling with your family (it could get back to him), and never allow anyone to question or "test" your children. Never allow your family to be present with your children without your being there. You don't know what could get back to him.

[Spryte]

:grouphug: I have not been where you are, and there are many here with more appropriate advice regarding what to say re: homeschooling. I just want to lend support! :grouphug:

[LaxMom]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: The only thing I would suggest besides making sure that you are in compliance with all laws, is that once this is resolved, you cut off all contact with this person.

 

Indeed. And ask for a no-contact order through the courts when the case is thrown out. Without any other detail, I would say he is a malignant entity who will bulldoze you however he sees fit to get his way, whether the area is his prerogative or not. This is not someone whose "quirks" my children would be exposed to, ever again.

 

So... if I were you, I would simply ask for a letter from whatever entity you report to for homeschooling in FL, stating you are in compliance with jurisdictional requirements, even if that is simply registering as a private homeschool (I'm not familiar with the requirements in FL). YOU should not have to prove anything. HE needs to prove whatever he has claimed in the original filing.

 

The Supreme Court has held, on multiple occasions, that, outside of neglect/abuse (physical neglect, not the ever nebulous "educational neglect"), parental preference is the law of the house. It has also acknowledged the right to homeschool, multiple times.

 

Eta: I hope you won't think less of me for the names I'm calling your father in my head right now.

Edited March 27, 2012 by MyCrazyHouse

[besroma]

I am so sorry you are dealing with this. It's terrible. :grouphug:

[OnTheBrink]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: The only thing I would suggest besides making sure that you are in compliance with all laws, is that once this is resolved, you cut off all contact with this person.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

No advice, but if a family member tried this with me, they'd no longer be my family member. What does your father think is going to happen between you and him regarding this? That if he gets his way, everything will be yippy-skippy and life goes on as normal? HE sounds delusional.

 

Best of luck to you. :grouphug:

[SailorMom]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[NASDAQ]

Just a thought as to why this is so rare.

 

Generally a person needs "standing" to bring an action. That is, they have to be a party to the case in some way. If Mary slips and falls in John's Eatery, Mary can sue John. Carol can't sue John because she didn't slip and fall. Even if Carol is Mary's cousin.

 

In most places, a random relative doesn't have standing to file an action about your parenting. Which really is as it should be. Like the courts don't have enough to do, right? The government might bring an action on their or your child's behalf, but not Cousin Carol.

 

I don't know what mechanism exists in your jurisdiction to make this possible, but from your description, it sounds ridiculous. I hope the judge thinks so as well.

[Trish]

Seems to me your dad has a beef with the school district that considers you in compliance with their requirements. So sorry you're going through this!

[Mama Geek]

No advice other than cut off all contact.

[PollyOR]

:grouphug: and prayers.

[Jennifer3141]

Homeschooling is the ONLY concern this family member has?? And he got a case in front of a judge??? Wow.

 

All I can say is that when it's over, this is a family member that would NEVER see another member of my family for eternity. Just wow.

[Trish]

Seems to me your dad has a beef with the school district that considers you in compliance with their requirements. So sorry you're going through this!

[AuntieM]

Get HSLDA involved now. People can say what they want about them but they will help you win this fight.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

At the very least, they can provide data and support for your attorney, regarding the legality of homeschooling. Maybe do a co-counsel thing. Especially if your current attorney is NOT familiar with homeschooling. If the basis of this is homeschooling, then you will need to be able to defend it based on laws.

 

At least that's my opinion. :D

 

I would contact Homeschool Legal Advantage in addition to HLDA. They are a Christian organization but I have worked with one of the attorneys and they are PASSIONATE about protecting our rights as homeschoolers.

 

:iagree:Whether or not you choose to affiliate yourselves with either of these groups, your attorney should know about them as a resource. They have been waging this sort of war specifically for a long time and can probably be helpful in providing information or guidance even if they do not become involved in your individual battle.

 

Just a thought as to why this is so rare.

 

Generally a person needs "standing" to bring an action. That is, they have to be a party to the case in some way. If Mary slips and falls in John's Eatery, Mary can sue John. Carol can't sue John because she didn't slip and fall. Even if Carol is Mary's cousin.

 

In most places, a random relative doesn't have standing to file an action about your parenting. Which really is as it should be. Like the courts don't have enough to do, right? The government might bring an action on their or your child's behalf, but not Cousin Carol.

 

I don't know what mechanism exists in your jurisdiction to make this possible, but from your description, it sounds ridiculous. I hope the judge thinks so as well.

 

If you are not already intimately familiar with the requirements of your state, become so now! I mean, know all the intricacies of the law beyond the basic reporting & filing an initial letter of intent. Get all your paperwork in order in case you have to show proof that you are in compliance with whatever is required. If it's not required, yet easy to do, consider assembling a basic portfolio of each child's work showing a few samples to demonstrate progress in learning over time (ie, one math paper from each month, one handwriting lesson from each month, a photo from a field trip... you get the idea).

 

I guess what I am saying is hope for the best (that it will be dismissed) but plan for the worst (that you will actually have to defend your home school).

 

I want to toss out something you may want to consider thoughtfully. I understand that you are very hurt and angry that this person is raising such an offense - and your feelings are justified! On the one hand, the person might be simply malicious. However, if someone is going so far as to initiate legal action, I have to at least consider that he truly, deeply believes (not correctly, but truly believes this, based on his own point of view, kwim?) that the children are at risk, and is operating out of deep concern, wrong though he is. This, to me, is a different scenario than someone who is just an interfering meanie. Just something to consider, and to pray about specifically, if you are the praying sort.

 

I have no advice from personal experience but want to offer you many hugs.

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[BlessedMom]

:grouphug:

[cara]

Have you contacted FPEA for any help http://www.fpea.com/

 

They would at least know the law and may be able to guide you in some way. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[AuntieM]

Have you contacted FPEA for any help http://www.fpea.com/

 

They would at least know the law and may be able to guide you in some way. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

If you are indeed in FL and have met the requirements of the state's home school laws, you should have plenty of support documentation. :grouphug:

[melissad2]

Get HSLDA involved now. People can say what they want about them but they will help you win this fight.

 

:iagree:

[momma aimee]

I am so sorry. I have no advice, but I know I speak for many when I say this is a dreaded outcome. You know you're right, milady, and you have support here. ((hugs))

 

:iagree:

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

families can really suck

[momma aimee]

Just a thought as to why this is so rare.

 

Generally a person needs "standing" to bring an action. That is, they have to be a party to the case in some way. If Mary slips and falls in John's Eatery, Mary can sue John. Carol can't sue John because she didn't slip and fall. Even if Carol is Mary's cousin.

 

In most places, a random relative doesn't have standing to file an action about your parenting. Which really is as it should be. Like the courts don't have enough to do, right? The government might bring an action on their or your child's behalf, but not Cousin Carol.

 

I don't know what mechanism exists in your jurisdiction to make this possible, but from your description, it sounds ridiculous. I hope the judge thinks so as well.

:iagree:

[TexasRachel]

Um, how on earth does an extended family member get court time (whatever it's called) for something like that?

 

So the family member is suing? Or what? How exactly does that work?

 

I'm baffled.

 

I think I read about this happening in Texas (via the THSC email). Mom dies, Dad continues hsing, Mom's parents are upset about numerous things including homeschooling, and sues for custody. I think it's been a long drawn out process and I'm not sure what the final say so was. If it's been finalized at all.

 

Personally, in this case, :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:. I think this stinks. You have enough to worry about as parents with out this. I'm sorry your family is going through this. Stay strong in doing what you think is right for your family.

[Mommy22alyns]

:grouphug: I'm so sorry. This kind of thing terrifies me because I had to cut off contact with both of my parents for different reasons and I just don't know if they'd do something like this out of spite.

[TranquilMind]

Um, how on earth does an extended family member get court time (whatever it's called) for something like that?

 

So the family member is suing? Or what? How exactly does that work?

 

I'm baffled.

I am trying to understand the nature of this as well. An extended family member does not have standing to simply file suit based on your parenting choices, unless that member happens to represent a government entity that has gotten into your business (CPS?). And then, he would have a conflict of interest.

 

So long as you have met the requirements of your state, this should be dismissed, unless there is something here you just can't share that changes the situation.

 

I'm sorry! How awful for you. I'd call HSLDA too, because they will assist however possible.

[Sharon37127]

Well, I really appreciate all the encouragement. That is exactly what I was looking for. I just had a bit of a disappointing day trying to gather some documents together (and was denied). I am aware I need to call FPEA & HSLDA. I guess I'm being a bit of a wimp because it is a private matter without state involvement. I'm just afraid of hearing- I can't help you. Believe it or not, it is very possible (at least here in our state/county) for things to get this far without the petitioner having to prove the allegations are true. Even with all of homeschooling "i's dotted and t's crossed." The proving comes later in a trial.

[Hen]

I am so sorry. I don't agree with the thought that the family member must have a very real concern to take things this far, people with personality disorders will try to get their way and will manipulate as far as they can to get their way or to prove that they "win".

 

Take a deep breath, feel empowered that you have legal representation. There is a big chance that you will not have to prove anything, because once in court this family member has no legal standing - you are an intact family and you as parents have the right to make decisions for your children. I am hoping and really think this will be dismissed.

 

I witnessed someone go through something like this over visitation - outside family member trying to interfere with decisions of intact family. Yes, they got their day in court but the judge told the family member that they had no case, any problems they had needed to be worked out with the mom/dad of the children, not by court case.

 

praying for peace for you, it will be okay. Stay calm, get your documentation in order, don't speak to this family member outside of court, don't say too much- your legal standing as parents will decide for you, you don't have to explain yourself.

 

so sorry, hugs. We will all be thinking of you and sending good thoughts/prayers your way.

[ssavings]

I am trying to understand the nature of this as well. An extended family member does not have standing to simply file suit based on your parenting choices, unless that member happens to represent a government entity that has gotten into your business (CPS?). And then, he would have a conflict of interest.

 

So long as you have met the requirements of your state, this should be dismissed, unless there is something here you just can't share that changes the situation.

 

I'm sorry! How awful for you. I'd call HSLDA too, because they will assist however possible.

 

In Florida, any person who has "reasonable knowledge of a child in need of protection" can file, actually. It's very vague - the family law practice I worked for out of college (paralegal) didn't even file petitions for people, because it's so complicated.

That being said, I agree that it seems ridiculous. Florida has laws about homeschooling, the school board has the right to check up, and annual evaluations, etc.

 

To OP: I'm sorry, I can't imagine how hard this is...

[gardening momma]

I guess I'm being a bit of a wimp because it is a private matter without state involvement.

That's just it--it's not a private matter anymore. The government is involved now. I would not take the chance of assuming this will get dismissed simply because "they don't have legal standing once in court" and not get more help than just your attorney. Bring in all you can.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Sharon37127]

In Florida, any person who has "reasonable knowledge of a child in need of protection" can file, actually. It's very vague - the family law practice I worked for out of college (paralegal) didn't even file petitions for people, because it's so complicated.

That being said, I agree that it seems ridiculous. Florida has laws about homeschooling, the school board has the right to check up, and annual evaluations, etc.

 

To OP: I'm sorry, I can't imagine how hard this is...

 

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! This is the thought/understanding of the law that I have been trying to verbalize. The petition is filed, the parent has the opportunity to admit or deny, and only THEN does it get to trial and the evidence is presented.

[ZooRho]

Oh my gosh, has your lawyer been in touch with the homeschool lawyers? HSLDA or the other whose name escapes me at the moment.

 

 

Anyway not personal knowledge but there was a family here in my state that lost the right to hs their children they had to send the children to school. In tact family too. it was a grandparent complaining.

 

I'm not sure what is happening now.

[Parrothead]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! This is the thought/understanding of the law that I have been trying to verbalize. The petition is filed, the parent has the opportunity to admit or deny, and only THEN does it get to trial and the evidence is presented.

Well, you better deny, and then get on the phone with a good, no, with a great homeschooling lawyer ASAP.

 

Good luck to you. Don't for one moment think you can stick your head in the sand and wimp out on this matter. Remember to get that no contact order. Consider a counter suit for harassment and liable.

[acurtis75]

I don't have legal advice but I can offer some encouragement. I don't want to offer too many details on the forum because it's not my information to share this publicly but I do know someone in real life who was sued and had a successful outcome. It was an extended family member. If you pm me I will provide you some details and information on what this family member did to prepare and their successful outcome.

[hillfarm]

First of all, try to separate your horror at the fact that a family member would initiate such an action against you and go into immediate protection mode. Rage, grieve, plot revenge later. Right now focus on what you need to do to keep your family the way YOU want it.

 

Start a calendar. Mark down every action you take, every fact you hear, and the name of everyone you speak to about this. If it comes to it, later on you will be able to be very credible by being able to name names and recall dates and times associated with this issue. Do write everything down. Stress is notorious for causing lapses in memory so document every possible thing you might need to clarify the situation.

 

Cease all communication with the party against you and document any attempts he makes at contact. Refer him to your lawyer. Do not engage. Document that referral. Depending on the situation, if the other party (?your father) is mentally unstable and this adamant, you might need to consider a temporary restraining order. Discuss this with your attorney.

 

If he has crossed this line, it is possible that he is irrational enough to cross other unthinkable lines. Without scaring your dc to death, make sure that they know a bit about what the problem is and that they are not to have any contact with this individual, regardless of how he would try to entice them. I don't mean to frighten you, but abduction by relatives is not uncommon in my area.

[Terrilth]

Well, I really appreciate all the encouragement. That is exactly what I was looking for. I just had a bit of a disappointing day trying to gather some documents together (and was denied). I am aware I need to call FPEA & HSLDA. I guess I'm being a bit of a wimp because it is a private matter without state involvement. I'm just afraid of hearing- I can't help you. Believe it or not, it is very possible (at least here in our state/county) for things to get this far without the petitioner having to prove the allegations are true. Even with all of homeschooling "i's dotted and t's crossed." The proving comes later in a trial.

Which is completely frustrating. What county are you in? You can pm me if you want to. I do homeschool evals all over FL and I'm curious.

[celticmom]

I would contact Homeschool Legal Advantage in addition to HLDA. They are a Christian organization but I have worked with one of the attorneys and they are PASSIONATE about protecting our rights as homeschoolers.

 

:iagree:Also, document everything that you possibly can.

[In the Rain]

What a nightmare! :grouphug:

[runmiarun]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: and prayers for you.

[Sharon37127]

I'm not sure if anyone cares to get an update on my personal situation, but here it is. The entire legal case has been voluntarily dismissed by the petitioner (my father). It is completely over. Not too clear what his reasons are and don't really care at this point. Now our family can get back to a normal life. I am truly thankful for the ways God moved in our situation and for all the people that supported us. It's not an easy place to be when your parenting skills and choices are challenged, but we are left a greater conviction now in those choices. Thanks for listening.