Homeschool criticism I'm concerned about... what do you think?

[enviromommy]

One thing I've been concerned about with homeschooling (this is our second year) is whether the kids (specifically the older kids) are missing out by not having classroom discussions. It's mentioned all the time here on the boards that the older kids get, the more independent they can be in their learning. And, to a large extent, I've found that to be true. My 12 and 10 year-olds largely "do their lists" in the mornings by themselves. (Although I do MCT out loud with them.) For science, French and history, I've tried to have them do independent work some days, and then have "class periods" where I do a "lecture" so they can practice taking notes, and then have some sort of discussion in which I ask leading questions and try to get them to answer and discuss. But the problem is we have so much trouble getting to those subjects, and also it takes a HUGE amount of time to prepare, which means I end up staying up really late lesson planning and then am too tired to push through the whole school day. So they aren't getting as much of this as I'd like.

 

So yesterday, I was talking to an 18 year-old girl, a friend of our family, who is now a freshman at a very prestigious university. She home schooled for elementary and middle school, and then went to PS for high school. I was very surprised to hear, for the first time, that she had had negative feelings about homeschooling. Her primary complaint was that there was no classroom discussion. She said, "I could read a chapter in a book at take a test and get 100%, but I didn't retain it because we didn't hash it out in class."

 

Since this was something that had crossed my mind, it really struck me. Is it even possible to reproduce the best of what a classroom can offer (I know that not all classrooms are wonderful environments) in a homeschool?

 

Please take this as the thoughtful question it is, from a committed homeschooler. This is not an attack.

 

Thanks.

[kalanamak]

 

Please take this as the thoughtful question it is, from a committed homeschooler. This is not an attack.

 

Thanks.

 

1) people learn different ways. I get nothing but a headache from book discussions, perhaps because my co-students have either been far above me or far behind me (and not happy to be reading that stupid book)

2) start a reading group for teens

3) she may be retaining things better because she is older

4) maybe her parents didn't read the book, too, and discuss it (this is my plan)

[PrincessMommy]

There are ways to get the classroom discussion experience without putting them into a school. I do think there is benefit from having group classes for older kids. My kids would complain and whine at the first hint of doing a "paper" for anything. But put them in a group with 6-8 other homeschoolers and suddenly there was this pressure to do well.

 

Find out if there are homeschool classes available in your area. If not, consider starting one yourself. Like the previous poster- start a group or reading class. I did one for the Lord of the Rings curriculum and it went quite well.

[Tammyla]

Join a book club at the library or on-line for a meaty literature / book discussion. Outsourcing classes is another option if they aren't a priority or getting done in the home classroom.

 

:iagree:There are a number of different learning styles.

 

Imo...Pretty much everyone can look back at former lessons & classes and find room for improvement.

[elegantlion]

Independent study is not my goal for homeschooling. Ds and I discuss most subjects together. It's work, but I pre-read or study most things with ds. I have a list to work over holiday break too. Then we discuss. I often present differing viewpoints, just so he can see all sides of a discussion.

 

I started this because ds has a great comprehension but was a delayed reader. So we were often using science or history above his reading level. I'd read to him and then we discuss.

 

We sometimes discuss things at the dinner table so dh can have his input as well.

 

For instance I'm tweaking our history plans over break. He's reading a narrative book on certain time periods this year. In addition he'll read some blurbs from a textbook. At the same time I'm reading a higher level adult book that discusses that period in more depth. That way I can add to the discussion when it happens.

 

There are some things I can't pre-read due to time or ds decides he wants to study that right now. We take the time to discover it together. Discussion has always been a big part of our homeschooling. My ds would revolt it if I gave him a chapter to read, take a test, and then never did anything with it.

 

I enjoyed homeschooling elementary, but this year has been so enriching because he understands concept at a deeper level. I'm really looking forward to high school.

[momsuz123]

This is my first year hsing, so I too have been keeping an ear out for a lot of things. One family that hs near here had their older kids take a few classes at the local high school. (Here you can do that, where you take 2 or 3 classes and then still hs). The kids told me it was the biggest joke. They both took AP classes only, the classes were far to easy, they were shocked at the behaviour in the classroom too.

Another high school I met at our church was hs up til high school, then went to high school. She said she is bored. She is taking all AP classes, and it is a breeze. She said the kids are a joke and she mostly just hangs out with the same friends she played with while hsing - from church. I am a physical therapist and work some weekends. I have had 2 former principals as patients tell me that they wouldn't send their own children to ps these days, and I had an AP science teacher tell me that over 50% of his time is spent on behaviour problems in class.

So, I am taking it a year at a time, but I am not liking what I hear at the high school level. I really think more and more are going to turn to hsing. I know of 3 more families that are starting next year. I am going to keep my ears and eyes wide open to look outside the box for possibilities of co-ops/ discussions for my kids as they got older. High school seems to be failing so many kids around here, maybe if I think outside the box, I can come up with a much better idea for my kids, yeah...pretty sure I can. Hope this helps. :001_smile:

[DawnM]

Um, I am not buying that she would necessarily remember it by "hashing it out" in high school. This might work better for college, but that has far more to do with interest and maturity IMHO.

 

(says the high school English teacher whose students were not aided by discussion in many cases!"

 

Dawn

 

She said, "I could read a chapter in a book at take a test and get 100%, but I didn't retain it because we didn't hash it out in class."

 

Since this was something that had crossed my mind, it really struck me. Is it even possible to reproduce the best of what a classroom can offer (I know that not all classrooms are wonderful environments) in a homeschool?

 

Please take this as the thoughtful question it is, from a committed homeschooler. This is not an attack.

 

Thanks.

Edited December 25, 2011 by DawnM

[LisaKinVA]

As someone who went to public/private schools until my junior year... this is so. not. universally true. I enjoyed class discussions a lot, but they did not happen every day. It's like saying the only way you can possibly make chemistry "stick" is by doing experiments!

 

I do not undervalue discussions... but there is no way any class discussion (usually limited to 20-30 minutes of one or two class periods a week) could substitute for all of the reading, memorizing, and writing that also went on.

 

FWIW, usually the same handful of people participated in class discussions. I was one of them... we were the opinionated ones.

[kalanamak]

 

FWIW, usually the same handful of people participated in class discussions. I was one of them... we were the opinionated ones.

 

I went to a pulbic "seminar" college. If we had 5 out of 20 who read, thought, and could speak we were doing well. It was often only 2 or 3 and the teacher. My brother, however, was a "Johnny" (St John's College) and everyone read, thought, and spoke. But then, he didn't have 20 in the seminars. So, I figure I had a seminar of 3-5 people with 20 onlookers. :)

[Myeightkiddies]

This is not something that concerns me. As you can tell by my signature, I have several homeschool graduates. All of them have been successful and adjusted very easily to college/university. I mentioned it to them, and all of them chuckled and said it wasn't a problem.

[ErinE]

I went to a good high school and our classroom discussions were a joke. The teacher spent the period trying to lead the class. Most of the students refused to answer while those that did gave rote answers. If we homeschool high school, I don't intend on all the learning to be independent. Particularly for literature and history, we'll have discussions and the papers will be college light.

 

Even now, the kids and I discuss the what and whys of reading and history.

[laundrycrisis]

In my 13 years of k-12 public school experience, I do not remember any classroom discussions on anything. There was definitely no hashing anything out. It was all just handed down. I did not experience classroom discussions of anything in my state university either until I was in my junior and senior years of college, and finally in small classes that were specific for my major, and only for my very small graduating class.

 

I think an online program that includes online discussions as part of the class may provide more opportunity for discussion than many public K-12 schools would. After college, I took some graduate business school classes that had online discussion, and I really enjoyed that.

[radiobrain]

I would say that it is an interesting aspect to think about, but is only that person's opinion. I am sure if you asked any number of people with various educational backgrounds you would find as many different answers as snowflakes. (That sentence is strangely worded, but I don't really care to work on it. ;))

 

Tuck it in your "things to consider" but don't stitch it on a pillow or anything.

 

BTW, I hated those types of discussions in HS. It was either boring, obvious no one else had read the book, obvious I hadn't read the book, ruined the way I looked at something... etc etc. FWIW, I BSed my way through many an essay by paying attention in those discussions instead of reading the book. I vividly remember doing that with An American Tragedy, a book I loathed, and I got an A. I'd rather have my kids read the book.

 

The ONLY class discussion I remember had to do with me getting into a moral argument about eating meat (I was attempting to be a teenage vegetarian). I can't imagine which book we studied in Am. Lit led to that discussion. Anyway, it ended up with me saying that as long as someone was willing to hunt, kill and skin the animal themselves.... I was cool with them. As if that even mattered, LOL. I am sure I ate a rare steak one week later.....I still look back at what a goofball I was....

Edited December 25, 2011 by radiobrain

[Guest]

It's a valid concern; it's one of the top reasons that some homeschoolers do feel differently about high school than they did about elementary school.

 

Keep in mind, though, that not every child who was homeschooled for all or part of their education is happy they did so. Sometimes I think it's a "grass is greener" situation; no matter where their schooling had been centered, they would have been unhappy about some aspect. I think I would have been a terrific homeschooled kid, but it was never considered and...oh well. There were plenty of things I read, got 100% on the test and then promptly forgot, though I was in school "hashing it out." A lot of how well a child learns really comes down to how much internal motivation they have to do so.

 

Personally, that is not a strong enough argument for me to want to put a little child in school, but adapting to a classroom environment, its expectations and peer benefit are reasons my oldest is in a brick & mortar school for high school. YMMV, however; lots of teens and their families survive just fine without a B&M school for any part of their schooling. That is the beautiful thing about homeschooling. It gives each family and each child the benefit of doing what works best.

[GinaPagnato]

I can see if a parent isn't spending adequate time with their older kids discussing their work, then this could pose a problem. However, "adequate time" can mean different things to different people and every child is different and learns differently.

 

That being said, if this is a concern then a great remedy is joining (or organizing!) a book club of fellow hs kids. Send out an e-mail to 4 or 5 families, choose one day a month, or every two weeks, decide on books, then mom and dc read the book and discuss on meeting night. Problem solved! :)

 

And honestly, I attended one of the best public high schools in the nation (ranked and everything), and retained nothing from the classroom discussions. There were too many other distractions to keep things focused on the subject at hand. Things didn't improve til college, so perhaps that's where her opinion originated.

[Laurie4b]

We outsource many of our high school subjects, or do them with a few friends so that there is the opportunity for discussion. I do think discussion is very important with literature--and I can't provide all the points of view that a student might hear in a classroom. Even with a sibling doing the same subject, we're still all from the same family and our points of view have considerable overlap.

[dragons in the flower bed]

She said, "I could read a chapter in a book at take a test and get 100%, but I didn't retain it because we didn't hash it out in class."

 

This is the only reason I still keep my children in the same history period. I study it right along with them, too, on my level. We can discuss it as a family, then. It becomes part of our lives.

 

At our holiday breakfast of gingerbread pancakes, my eight-year-old was describing a math topic to a grown-up friend of the family, and everyone just dug in to talk about it. I can't be the only person who homeschools because we like making the dinner table a little more like a great college class.

[LaxMom]

Um, I am not buying that she would necessarily remember it by "bashing it out" in high school. This might work better for college, but that has far more to do with interest and maturity IMHO.

 

(says the high school English teacher whose students were not aided by discussion in many cases!"

 

Dawn

 

This was my thought as well. The only place I see this being a concern is in upper level language, with non-fluent parents. Though, in my case, the more I teach, the more comes back.

[missmoe]

I do think discussion is an important part of education in high school. If you are struggling to make that happen, it maybe time to outsource.

[Chris in VA]

I thought discussion was very important, and only had one high schooler at a time. So I used a curriculum with leading questions, one that allowed me to ask a few insightful questions, so I didn't have to spend a bunch of time coming up with my own. Using these as jumping off points was immensely helpful.

 

My kiddo, however, wasn't quite as good at discussion as I wished him to be. There was a lot of pulling teeth, iykwim.

 

Later, in college, because he developed some good study habits and was diligent (IS diligent) about doing his work (i.e., homeschooling helped him become a better student), he was able to participate more in discussions. He always did the reading when he was homeschooled, something he may not have done otherwise, so he got into the habit of being prepared. So, even tho he wasn't the greatest discusser in hs, he had the tools to use in college, when so much depends upon being ready to discuss.

 

That's good enough for me.

[enviromommy]

I do think discussion is an important part of education in high school. If you are struggling to make that happen, it maybe time to outsource.

 

Just to be clear, I'm not near high school yet! My oldest just turned 12 and is in 6th grade. The discussion pertained more to middle school in preparation for high school.

 

Thanks for all the perspectives, everyone. I think my perception is skewed because I was lucky enough to go to a really great private prep school. Our classroom discussions were real discussions, and pretty much everyone had read the book. I realize I may be viewing the past through rose-colored glasses, and that most schools aren't like that, though.

[regentrude]

I think discussions ARE important - but I do not think they must take place in a classroom with same age peers. Discussing the book with an adult who is actually interested and has read the book may be equally, if not more, beneficial.

[freeindeed]

We use Sonlight, so I feel really good about our book discussions. :)

[DianeW88]

This is not something that concerns me. As you can tell by my signature, I have several homeschool graduates. All of them have been successful and adjusted very easily to college/university. I mentioned it to them, and all of them chuckled and said it wasn't a problem.

 

:iagree:My homeschool graduates (always were homeschooled) are now attending college and have had no problem. We always had very animated discussions among the three of us (my two oldest were in high school together). Although my kids were in different "grades", they always did the same literature, science, history, etc. They did math separately, but that was it. For things like Shakepeare, we read the plays aloud and then had a discussion. It worked beautifully and my children learned to express themselves well.

[EKS]

I absolutely believe that this is a weakness of homeschooling. It is one of the reasons my son will be attending school beginning in January.

 

Realistically, homeschooling, like every other educational situation, is not perfect. Every family has to decide for itself if the pros outweigh the cons.

[ma23peas]

Yes! This is why we seek out opportunities...

 

In grammar grades I taught a Latin class with 8-10 students twice weekly, they had art classes with peers, we did all of our history/science as a family and held read alouds daily.

 

Middle school they started taking science labs outside home with 15 other students, they also started speech and debate classes and participated in tournaments. I started teaching writing classes (have 31 students in two classes) that center on literature socratic discussions and group poetry projects as well as writing. I have never been one for worksheets, math is it as far as their independent work, but I am teaching them 50% of the time.

 

Now, I feel there is a fair balance of discussion and for high school ny son will start University of Alabama's Early College where some of his courses will be live discussion with peers from all over...

 

Necessity breeds invention!

[enviromommy]

I absolutely believe that this is a weakness of homeschooling. It is one of the reasons my son will be attending school beginning in January.

 

Realistically, homeschooling, like every other educational situation, is not perfect. Every family has to decide for itself if the pros outweigh the cons.

 

I think I'm leaning more and more towards B&M high school. I already know where they would go - the private school they were in before we started homeschooling (it goes from preschool through high school). I have 5 children, so I'm thinking this way my oldest will go back to school just as the youngest is starting to need some school time. I'm not sure I could continue homeschooling high school and have time for the younger kids' education as well, anyway.

 

In the meantime, I'm going to redouble my efforts to provide more discussion/class time for the two oldest (currently 6th grade and 4th grade). I really wish there were more than 24 hours in a day!

[Bang!Zoom!]

http://pages.towson.edu/duncan/acalists.html

 

Resources online like the above (Medieval Academic Discussions) are really interesting. On the bright side, no one *really* needs to participate - only listen if they choose, or jump in the fray and banter, and bonus 2- age/appearance and other stereotype problems simply don't exist.

 

Now for face to face, group, other elements are going to get involved. Travel, agreement, social and psychological aspects.

 

You can create them on your own, as small or as large as you want, as local or regional as you want. They might already be out there...just waiting for you to join and see if the fit is good.

 

Then there are events, sporadic and specific to search for...highlighting an interest in a collective for just a few hours even..most libraries sponsor speakers or the Rotary Clubs...

 

You could hunt for mentorships and matches there.

 

Buddy up in a public space with another college student who studies similar interests and would be willing to share study time..

 

Just some ideas..

[Jay3fer]

:iagree: You can create opportunities for discussion that are far more natural than anything that happens in a classroom. I was in a gifted class, but can still only remember 1-2 high-level intellectual discussions.

 

You can discuss serious topics as a family, especially when you have other people over - we have TONS of "issues" talks which include our teens, around our Shabbat table, especially when guests and extended family are here. Almost no topics are off-limits (though, as the 4- and 6-yo know well, bathroom topics, however entertaining, must be discussed in the bathroom :lol:).

 

Some "talks" degenerate into arguments (and sometimes kicking and punching, when the 16- and 17-yo get into it), but generally, we all learn something, and it's in a "safe" environment where you at least know what ideas are having an influence on your child.

 

As others have said better than I, it's a highly artificial scenario, to lock kids up in a classroom with an arbitrary group of "peers" who happen to have been born in the same calendar year. Far more natural to let discussions evolve in the real context of their lives.

[TravelingChris]

My oldest had hardly any book discussions in homeschooling. Mainly because he would not answer much when prodded by dh or me. He had no problems with college discussions. DD had two English classes in high school which had some discussion and one Social Science class. She was almost the only one discussing anything in her freshman classes.

Both of my homeschool graduates were very thankful for homeschooling, didn't think they had any deficiencies, and to boot, the middle now has a greater than 4.0 for her first semester.

[kewb]

There are definitely benefits to group discussion. It is a challenge to recreate that in the homeschool environment. Because of this a few friends and I created a discussion group for our kids. We meet 2x a month and discuss various topics. Over the last few years we have done books, short stories, movies, poetry, Calvin & Hobbes, & origins of Holidays. Plus, we throw in a few presentation type groups. For example, everyone wrote a short story from the same picture prompt and then they shared their stories with the group. At the beginning of the year we have a "What I did over summer vacation" presentation. Sometimes, they pick a topic of interest and have to do a presentation.

[Ester Maria]

I absolutely believe that this is a weakness of homeschooling. It is one of the reasons my son will be attending school beginning in January.

 

Realistically, homeschooling, like every other educational situation, is not perfect. Every family has to decide for itself if the pros outweigh the cons.

:iagree:

 

While I appreciate that there are very different experiences and impressions as regards how that discussion element in schools works out in practice, my experience was that it is indeed possible to create a vivacious, intellectually stimulating environment with an energy of a fairly large group of kids which simply cannot be replaced at home, or with written discussions (nowadays that would all be online) or even in smaller groups of kids with whom you only share that one activity and not the whole educational context (and a shared net of associations that is a result of that). Whether everyone's child has a possibility to be a part of one such class - no. Many people can, realistically, do much better at home than what their child would be receiving institutionally anyway. But there is a certain number of kids for whom this does not hold true, and the decision to homeschool those children must be very carefully considered, because there is a real possibility of providing less than what the child can get elsewhere. It is always a question of pros and cons, of course.

 

Many of our literature and philosophy discussions at school were brilliant and so engaging that if they happened to be during the last period, we would often collectively go to a caffe right afterward to continue them on our own. :tongue_smilie: Not to speak of the "meaning of life" discussions on school trips, collectively sneaking into one bedroom, sitting all over the floor and talking long past midnight. I have so many beautiful experiences regarding this peer group discussion thing, whether formally in school, or in our free time as a result of having met and got close in a cohesive educational environment.

[Anne in CA]

Well, I think it would depend on the kid, and depend on the class discussions. We had the most stupid class discussions when I was in high school. Of course, this was because I was in a class with many people who didn't read well, hadn't read the books, and still tried to contribute, or worse, argue points without having read the book, just Cliff notes.

 

My oldest went to ps high school and their book discussions were just the teacher explaining her views of the books read. I had her do a workbook on To Kill a Mockingbird while she was reading it for ps English class, and she could not answer the Lightning Lit questions because the teacher had explained the book in a different way, so she could only look at the book from that point of view.

 

But I'm sure there are classrooms with wonderful discussions, and they might help a highly verbal student process better than workbooks and tests.

 

My ds did 12 book reports on classic books for NARHS and he read other people's reports on those books and "discussed" their reports in his book reports and had a lot of fun. It was kind of like he observed "The Great Discussion," and it worked for him. But it probably would not work for many people, he is very good with abstract thinking.

[ErinE]

While I appreciate that there are very different experiences and impressions as regards how that discussion element in schools works out in practice, my experience was that it is indeed possible to create a vivacious, intellectually stimulating environment with an energy of a fairly large group of kids which simply cannot be replaced at home, or with written discussions (nowadays that would all be online) or even in smaller groups of kids with whom you only share that one activity and not the whole educational context (and a shared net of associations that is a result of that). Whether everyone's child has a possibility to be a part of one such class - no. Many people can, realistically, do much better at home than what their child would be receiving institutionally anyway. But there is a certain number of kids for whom this does not hold true, and the decision to homeschool those children must be very carefully considered, because there is a real possibility of providing less than what the child can get elsewhere. It is always a question of pros and cons, of course.

 

I'm not denying that the possibility exists for this sort of discourse. I just would say its difficult to find at a typical American high school. I attended a very large, well-rated high school, in a good district and we never had this sort of discussion. Of the 650+ graduating seniors, I can think of 3-4 who were willing to have this discussion and I was on the college prep track. Most students were more concerned with having the right extracurriculars, getting the right grade, and volunteering for the right charities.

[MIch elle]

Our classroom discussions were real discussions, and pretty much everyone had read the book.

 

:iagree: This was my experience in honors English at my public high school during my jr & sr. years. My love of great literature came from these classes!

 

This is also my older son's experience at his private high school during all 4 years (he's a senior).

[Ester Maria]

I attended a very large, well-rated high school, in a good district and we never had this sort of discussion. Of the 650+ graduating seniors, I can think of 3-4 who were willing to have this discussion and I was on the college prep track.

I can imagine. I know many people who have attended good schools and did not have that experience (both in the US and abroad). I think it has a lot to do with the individual school culture, but also with a mix of kids that happens to form a class. Personally, I think I got lucky in that I happened to be a part of an unusually good mix - while the school as such was good, and professors as such were good, our particular mix could still lend itself to a better educational experience than many other ones, many times it was as though we found ourselves in the right time, in the right place, with the right people, and the synergy worked. So, I agree that there are other factors in it too, not only the fact that we have a school regarded as good.

[ErinE]

I can imagine. I know many people who have attended good schools and did not have that experience (both in the US and abroad). I think it has a lot to do with the individual school culture, but also with a mix of kids that happens to form a class. Personally, I think I got lucky in that I happened to be a part of an unusually good mix - while the school as such was good, and professors as such were good, our particular mix could still lend itself to a better educational experience than many other ones, many times it was as though we found ourselves in the right time, in the right place, with the right people, and the synergy worked. So, I agree that there are other factors in it too, not only the fact that we have a school regarded as good.

 

Agreed. Having the right mix of intellectually curious students and engaging teachers can make the high school experience unique. I just didn't find this atmosphere until college. Even then, it was only the smaller classes that led to interesting insights and after-class discussions. The large core seminars were strictly lectures and multiple choice exams.

 

One of the reasons I read this board is the mix of discussions from silly to serious. I've been through threads discussing the merits of traditional vs. syntax-based grammar, spiral vs. conceptual math, etc. which I enjoy as much as threads on kilts. I've struggled to find this group of people in real life.

[Tarreymere]

I often fell asleep or read a completely different book during classroom discussions, both in high school and in college. After my sophmore year I skipped a lot of classes, read the books, and aced the tests. In the business department anyway, that would never fly in the the nursing department (dual degree) since they had a hang up about class attendence (spent most of that time playing solitaire on my laptop). I suppose if one actually got something out of those kinds of experiences they could be helpful........but I did not. <sigh>. NOW I find out I went to a crappy college.......:glare:

[mom2scouts]

My 16 year old son is in public high school. They have discussions in class, but from what he tells me, it rarely relates to the book or subject. He told me that the students know exactly what to say to get certain teachers off topic for the rest of the class. This is a supposedly excellent school district.:glare: My 22 year old son also went to public high school and he keeps asking me why I didn't homeschool him because most class time was a waste of time. I REALLY don't think your kids are missing out on anything important!

[elegantlion]

My 16 year old son is in public high school. They have discussions in class, but from what he tells me, it rarely relates to the book or subject. He told me that the students know exactly what to say to get certain teachers off topic for the rest of the class.

 

:lol::lol: My sole student has the same gift. I'm learning his ways though. ;)

[Penelope]

Though discussion with true peers is valuable, I think that if you need discussion with peers to remember a book, maybe you didn't spend enough time reading, taking notes, and thinking and writing about what you read. IMO. :D

 

IME the valuable discussions did not occur until college. In high school honors and AP English classes, most discussions could have come straight from Cliff's Notes.

 

And that's probably because half the students only skimmed the book and read the Cliff's Notes. ;)

[Penelope]

 

Many of our literature and philosophy discussions at school were brilliant and so engaging that if they happened to be during the last period, we would often collectively go to a caffe right afterward to continue them on our own. :tongue_smilie: Not to speak of the "meaning of life" discussions on school trips, collectively sneaking into one bedroom, sitting all over the floor and talking long past midnight. I have so many beautiful experiences regarding this peer group discussion thing, whether formally in school, or in our free time as a result of having met and got close in a cohesive educational environment.

 

Now that sounds marvelous. And I agree that would be missing at home.

 

However, I would venture to say that the sort of experiences you describe are vanishingly rare in U.S. high schools.

[WTMCassandra]

I have not had time to read all the responses. I am leery that most high school class discussions are not that profitable or substantive, but at the same time, I am doing my two together for high school literature despite the age difference, so that we can have discussion.

 

So far this year we have done The Odyssey, Agamemnon, and Oedipus. We read each aloud, taking on different characters, except I got the audiobook for The Odyssey because it was so long. We read aloud and discuss, and at the end, they write an essay. This is working just fine, and they are retaining just fine. We are going to stick with this method, I think.

 

(They do the appropriate Spielvogel chapter mostly on their own, though.)

[dirty ethel rackham]

I think this may be more of a homeschooling style issue rather than a condemnation of homeschooling in general. Sometimes the way homeschooling is implemented in certain families may preclude those kinds of discussions. Also, she is comparing middle school with high school. What kind of discussions are middle schoolers having? Does she really think middle schoolers in a brick and mortar school had great, in-depth discussions. In many middle schools, the students brains are turned off as they navigate the hormonal storm.

 

I found that by doing a couple subjects with another family or two, we were able to have fantastic discussions - better than any I remember in high school. Also, the preparation time was cut down by having other adults to do the heavy lifting with me. We did a couple Teaching Company courses where we met weekly and had discussions. I learned just as much as the kids. did. Also, in high school, my kids participate in a teen lit club that is intellectually stimulating. Their online classes also have mandatory participation in online discussions.

 

Also, I have better discussions with my kids when I am NOT uber prepared because I can ask questions where I don't have a specified answer I am trying to get. These conversations have some of the richest experiences in our homeschool because they need to explain their positions and provide supporting examples.

 

So, I am not replicating the classroom - in many ways, it is better. More depth, more creative discussion due to less fear of making a mistake.