When you're really far behind...

[Janie Grace]

Please don't slam me. I just need practical advice. My dd (6th grade) is on Lesson 55 of her Saxon math (6/7). This is out of 120 lessons, plus investigations/tests. Basically this means that she has to do math 5 days a week until the very end of August to finish this math level by the start of next year.

 

How did this happen? Well, we moved smack in the middle of the year. So for several months, we were packing/unpacking/getting settled. Also this was her first year with Saxon (after Singapore, then TT for one year) -- so there has been a learning curve in terms of getting used to the approach. I go over all of her math and have her redo anything that's wrong. So that takes time, as well.

 

So... what would you do? Nose to the grindstone, finish by Aug. 31st? Don't worry about grade levels and just keep working at a realistic pace? Something else?

 

She's good at math, by the way. Not struggling. It's just taking forever!!! :001_huh:

[MariannNOVA]

We are in the same boat -- we bought the lesson DVDs and dd is doing 2-3 lessons a day - we are in 8/7. It comes easily to her and she doesn't mind doing it......it has just been a year with challenges.:grouphug:

[Jean in Newcastle]

We're going to finish algebra at the end of August - hopefully. I figure having only one class to do for an hour in the summer isn't such a bad thing. There will still be plenty of time for normal fun summer stuff.

 

There is no one right answer. You could go through July, take one month off and then pick it up in September, going over a bit in the summer for the next book to "catch up".

 

You could go as far as you can until the end of your school year (in our area of the country that is the end of June but I don't know what it is for your area), take the summer off, pick it up again in the fall, etc. You risk losing your momentum and needing to review some before you really get going, though.

[Myra]

I say don't stress it! Math is a subject that you can't rush through - many math concepts just can't be rushed. My philosophy is that we move at a pace that works for us, stop for the summer break (July and August) and start where we left off in the September!

[Jen+4dc]

To get my kids back up to speed after our Jan/Feb CA to ME move I had them to 2 math lessons a day in a new program. The beginning of a program is usually a lot of review so that worked well.

 

Does she do every problem of every page? We did Saxon for awhile and we ALL hated it. So, when we had a mid-year move we switched to another curriculum. Saxon is very thorough but there's way too many problems, imho.

 

If your dd "gets" it and understands the concepts you could shorten things by having her only do 1/2 the problems. Over the summer if you aren't doing school she could do just math each day. If she does only 1/2 the problems and gets it then maybe she could do 2 lessons a day?

 

Of course, realistically, I'd say just keep plugging along. Does it really matter what grade level is on the book as long as she's learning?

[missmoe]

Work at her own pace and move on when she is ready. Could you really work five days a week through the summer? And how would she feel about math at that point?

 

One of the great things about homeschooling is being able to work at the pace of your child. That pace should include slow downs for important life events--like moving.

[MamaAkins]

No slams from me. Life happens sometimes. I'm not too familiar with Saxon, but is there any way that you can accelerate the process if she's doing well (not struggling)? Could you do only the even (or odd) problems and try to cover 2 lessons per day? Otherwise, I would continue to work steadily through the summer, but acknowledge that it won't be done by August 31st. Set a realistic goal (maybe the beginning of October) and then continue to "double up" lessons in next year's book to make up for the delayed start in that subject until you're back on track. Good luck!

[MariannNOVA]

Please don't slam me. I just need practical advice. My dd (6th grade) is on Lesson 55 of her Saxon math (6/7). This is out of 120 lessons, plus investigations/tests. Basically this means that she has to do math 5 days a week until the very end of August to finish this math level by the start of next year.

 

How did this happen? Well, we moved smack in the middle of the year. So for several months, we were packing/unpacking/getting settled. Also this was her first year with Saxon (after Singapore, then TT for one year) -- so there has been a learning curve in terms of getting used to the approach. I go over all of her math and have her redo anything that's wrong. So that takes time, as well.

 

So... what would you do? Nose to the grindstone, finish by Aug. 31st? Don't worry about grade levels and just keep working at a realistic pace? Something else?

 

She's good at math, by the way. Not struggling. It's just taking forever!!! :001_huh:

 

Something I forgot -- dd did saxon in private school -- they routinely did even numbered problems of even numbered lessons and odd numbered problems of odd numbered lessons -- they didn't ever do all the problems in a single lesson. HTH.

[FriedClams]

I'm a box checker - so I would do a lesson a day - 5 to 6 days a week until we were caught up. We school year round anyway, so it's totally normal for my kids to do a lesson a day, pretty much any weekday. In our house, Math is like piano practice, brushing your teeth, or reading. It's done every day.

[fairfarmhand]

I'd have her finish in Aug. But then for the next math book, keep in mind that the first part of the book is generally review of the stuff learned last year but "forgotten" over the summer.

 

After she finished the book in Aug., Id' give her the tests and when she started missing more than 2 on each test, we would start at that point in the next book. That way you might not be as behind as what you think.

[MariannNOVA]

I'd have her finish in Aug. But then for the next math book, keep in mind that the first part of the book is generally review of the stuff learned last year but "forgotten" over the summer.

 

After she finished the book in Aug., Id' give her the tests and when she started missing more than 2 on each test, we would start at that point in the next book. That way you might not be as behind as what you think.

 

 

EXCELLENT suggestion -- we have done this here and it is effective!:)

[justamouse]

I think it sucks that you have to start off by asking for people not to slam you.

 

Slow and steady wins the race. Honestly. Do half the problems a day (Saxon at Ps is done with evens or odds, never all of the problems) and just take the time to do it. Even if you do an hour a day over the summer that's accomplishing a lot. If she grasps the lesson easily, just let her do enough to cement the idea and move on.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Homeschooling while moving is a gargantuan task. Give yourself some grace.

[JudoMom]

We're in a similar boat (though we didn't move). We're just going to keep plugging along. We usually do math through the summer, anyway (though in the past we've done something than Saxon, like Life of Fred). We'll take a 2-3 weeks completely off at the end of June/beginning of July, then we'll start math up again.

[clementine]

I would make our goal to get to lesson 100. When I was teaching in a classroom, we rarely finished a book to. the. end. We got close, but weren't pressured to finish.

 

If you make it to the 100th lesson, you will have completed more than 75% of the book. If that lessens the pressure you feel, I say go for it. :) You know your daughter best, if math isn't a struggle for her, she will be fine.

[Ester Maria]

If possible, I would speed up her pace to two or even three lessons daily (some kids would be overwhelmed by that, though - only you can estimate whether your DD is one of those, or one of those that might profit from just getting it done as quickly as possible). If your DD gets math easily, go straight to the hardest problems, remove all the busywork (but ONLY if she has no need for that), and straight to the core of the lessons - this can speed you up significantly too. I often allowed DDs to do that when they were learning middle school content, since it is such a mix of essential stuff you should not rush through and busywork and a lot of fluffing that mathy kids can skip. So, if you implement all of that, you might finish it in double or even triple less time than you assume now. But in any case, I do suggest getting it done before the new school year, if you do traditional school years and not year-round.

[Pretty in Pink]

This is one reason that we school year-round. I would be very hesitant about rushing math; schooling year-round gives you the flexibility to catch-up when you do get behind without having to rush or double up on lessons.

 

I would keep moving at a realistic pace -- we aim for four days per week of math by that age. It might take you until October to finish, but if you keep that pace throughout next summer as well you will be close to even, if not even, by Fall 2012.

 

I have so BTDT with history. Holy cow. I got so burned out on TOG this year that my eldest is just now wrapping up week 22, and we are getting ready to completely drop it. I just couldn't get it done.

[Mejane]

Unless you live in a state that mandates reporting and you must be done at a certain time, I wouldn't worry about it; plug along, and finish when you finish. Also, I think it's ridiculous we're still so concerned about ending in May or June and starting in September. We're no longer an agrarian society. Sheesh. :glare: (Not directed toward you, OP, just a pet peeve of mine.)

Edited May 11, 2011 by Mejane

[regentrude]

I would NOT take a two months break from math with a student who is behind. (I won't even take two months off for students who are great at math and far ahead.) Not because you absolutely must finish the book by August 31, but because two months off math simply is not a good idea.

 

I would do a little bit of math over the summer. Even if you normally don't school year round - an hour of math a day is no hardship. At the end of summer, see where you are; if the book is not finished, crank math up a notch at the beginning of the new school year. I don't see a problem with starting the new book a few weeks lat - the important thing is that your child masters all material, however long that may take.

[Mrs.W]

Something I forgot -- dd did saxon in private school -- they routinely did even numbered problems of even numbered lessons and odd numbered problems of odd numbered lessons -- they didn't ever do all the problems in a single lesson. HTH.

 

My oldest does Saxon at her private school and they often skip entire lessons. They would go over the lesson, but skip the work and move on to the next lesson. Since there is plenty of review in each chapter they still get to work on the material from the skipped chapter.

[Susan C.]

Buy next year's book. We did Saxon a long time ago. I'm guessing, but around the last 30 of one book's lessons show up in the next book. So you might be able to catch what you didn't get to and still move on to the next level.

[Janie Grace]

Thanks, everyone. Right now, she does do all the Mixed Practice problems, but not any of the Lesson Practice (the drill). Do you think I could reduce to every other Mixed Practice problem? I feel like that is really trimming the program, BUT it is a lot of problems and almost all of her mistakes are careless ones (forgetting to reduce, decimal in the wrong place) -- not trouble with the concepts. I'd LOVE to be able to go to every other problem and then do two lessons per day. I think it would really encourage her to be able to move faster.

 

Giving her the tests at the beginning of the year is something I definitely should have done. MOST of the material thus far has been review from TT (she did TT7 last year b/c that's the level she tested into). I am kicking myself for having wasted time in the fall with so much review, esp. since we are now behind.

[regentrude]

Thanks, everyone. Right now, she does do all the Mixed Practice problems, but not any of the Lesson Practice (the drill). Do you think I could reduce to every other Mixed Practice problem? .

 

I would see no problem reducing the number of Mixed practice problems - but what I do not understand is why you decided to cut the Lesson practice? IMO, that is the most important part of the lesson as it practices the new concept.

[Janie Grace]

Work at her own pace and move on when she is ready. Could you really work five days a week through the summer? And how would she feel about math at that point?

 

I don't think we could, realistically. We have some camps (two, 5 days each), friends visiting, etc. She would be HATING math at that point for sure. We have always had a summer break of some sort... I don't think it needs to be 3 months but I really wish we could have at least a month of no academics. I guess it just can't happen, though. We're both bummed about it. But I don't want her getting behind, KWIM? :(

[Cheryl in NM]

I used Saxon for a few years. It's really okay to have her do 1/2 of the mixed practice lesson, unless she's struggling. If she's struggling, just slow down and don't overwhelm yourselves with math. You can use that book next year as well. That's what the 6/7 means; advance 6th grade, normal 7th.

 

Most importantly, don't stress! You want learning to be fun. Also, these are fundamental years for Algebra prep; don't rush.

 

If she's doing well, skip 1/2 of the mixed practice and skip repetitive lessons. The next book will be review for the first several lessons.

 

ETA: Remember a big perk to homeschooling is flexibility. You don't have to finish the book. Don't school through the summer if it will kill her love of learning. Who, exactly will she be behind? The ps'ers? Um, no. Just being homeschooled puts her leaps and bounds ahead of ps'ers.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Cheryl in NM

[Janie Grace]

I would see no problem reducing the number of Mixed practice problems - but what I do not understand is why you decided to cut the Lesson practice? IMO, that is the most important part of the lesson as it practices the new concept.

 

Oh. my. word. I am such an idiot! I thought I was eliminating the "Warm Up" or whatever part of the lesson it was that was tons of timed computation. But you are totally right. :blushing:

 

Okay. Adding back in the Lesson Practice. EO problem on Mixed Practice. 2 lessons per day. I think we can do this.

[Janie Grace]

I think it sucks that you have to start off by asking for people not to slam you.

 

Slow and steady wins the race. Honestly. Do half the problems a day (Saxon at Ps is done with evens or odds, never all of the problems) and just take the time to do it. Even if you do an hour a day over the summer that's accomplishing a lot. If she grasps the lesson easily, just let her do enough to cement the idea and move on.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Homeschooling while moving is a gargantuan task. Give yourself some grace.

 

 

Thank you! Yeah, I guess I did kind of come with fear and trembling... I mean, getting behind on math just feels like the mortal sin of homeschooling. Thanks for the reminder about grace. Being discouraged about it definitely isn't a vibe I want to transmit to dd!

[Plucky]

I don't think we could, realistically. We have some camps (two, 5 days each), friends visiting, etc. She would be HATING math at that point for sure. We have always had a summer break of some sort... I don't think it needs to be 3 months but I really wish we could have at least a month of no academics. I guess it just can't happen, though. We're both bummed about it. But I don't want her getting behind, KWIM? :(

 

Really? We take days off for camps & camping, family fun days, or decluttering days etc. Math and reading is pretty standard here during summer. :001_smile:

[Janie Grace]

Really? We take days off for camps & camping, family fun days, or decluttering days etc. Math and reading is pretty standard here during summer. :001_smile:

 

Really and truly.

 

We have always had some kind of summer break and it has always worked out beautifully (not from reading, of course -- but my kids don't consider reading "school"). Obviously I realize I need to do math this summer though -- hence my question about pace and expectations.

[Dolphin]

We have had a crazy year here too. I wouldn't sweat it. We do school year round. I seldom take more than 4 weeks with 0 school. My poor ds has Kumon, and he gets a packet everyday but Christmas. It is only about 20 min, but math is one of those things that kids can forget quickly.

 

What I am doing (see if this helps you)

 

School lite over the summer, no more than an 90 min 4 days a week. We are doing Math, Reading, we might throw in some handwriting practice and do some science experiments. Really chill.

 

We are taking a month off, no more than Kumon and he gets total choice over his daily reading (he is a book worm)

 

Than in August I will see where we are. We finished some things back in February, and we started the next level then. Just like I am not going to hold him back and make him wait for September for things he is ahead in, I am also not going to worry about things we start late with. We probably won't be starting our 4th grade math until November.

 

The nice thing about finishing at different times is that it spreads the spending out. My main goal this year has been to make a big effort to jump off of this arbitrary time schedule that society has, and to really work at ds's pace.

 

Best of luck, and have fun!

[NanceXToo]

Saxon has SO many problems per lesson, it seems like overkill to me.

 

I would drastically shorten the number of problems she is expected to do per lesson if you see that she gets/understands it. For TT my daughter does 22-24 problems per lesson, plus the 5 practice problems. So maybe you can trim Saxon down to a comparable number of problems for material your daughter understands and chalk the rest up as "busywork" and just skip it.

 

By doing that, maybe you can get through more of the lessons sooner than you think.

 

Of course, if she's having problems understanding the material, then you don't want to rush her through it. But if she gets it, don't let her get bogged down in busywork, just try to condense things somewhat.

[Carol in Cal.]

I would keep going. Have her do the lesson practice and all the practice problems for each lesson, is my advice, having used Saxon with a non-mathy kid. It's really not THAT time consuming, if you are giving up other classes for the summer mostly.

 

I would suggest doing at least 1 lesson per day, and preferably 2 (I think that more than that is too much), and working 6 days per week when you can stand it.

 

Then skip the days when you have guests, or have her just do 1/2 a lesson on those days. Ditto for summer camp days. By the end of the summer hopefully you will be finished or nearly finished. If you're not finished by then, I would say to finish the book first thing next year.

 

With Saxon it's important to finish the book. The review early in the next book is what you can skimp on--it doesn't teach the material thoroughly enough to be used to cover it from scratch. So finish it, and then when you start the next one, let your DD study the material but not do the homework, just taking the tests, until she drops below 90% on them, taking one every day or two. Once she drops, THEN start doing the full lessons. That will save you some time next year.

[WishboneDawn]

Just keep plugging away, maybe pick up and extra hour or two on weekends.

 

Don't worry about judgement. I'm currently waaay behind as well due to a year full of troubles and tragedies. But that's life and the school work is always there waiting when we need to get back to it. :grouphug:

[extendedforecast]

Thanks, everyone. Right now, she does do all the Mixed Practice problems, but not any of the Lesson Practice (the drill). Do you think I could reduce to every other Mixed Practice problem? I feel like that is really trimming the program, BUT it is a lot of problems and almost all of her mistakes are careless ones (forgetting to reduce, decimal in the wrong place) -- not trouble with the concepts. I'd LOVE to be able to go to every other problem and then do two lessons per day. I think it would really encourage her to be able to move faster.

 

Giving her the tests at the beginning of the year is something I definitely should have done. MOST of the material thus far has been review from TT (she did TT7 last year b/c that's the level she tested into). I am kicking myself for having wasted time in the fall with so much review, esp. since we are now behind.

When we used Saxon, I used to combine two lessons by having DD do both lesson practices and the whole mixed review for the last lesson.

[extendedforecast]

Duplicate post. Sorry.

Edited May 11, 2011 by extendedforecast

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I would keep going through the summer (we do math 5 days a week year round, but in the summer only about half the number of problems plus math games) but do not rush. Rushing concepts will not help her. Just go at it, through the summer but don't rush to be done by August.

[AuntieM]

I'd have her finish in Aug. But then for the next math book, keep in mind that the first part of the book is generally review of the stuff learned last year but "forgotten" over the summer.

 

After she finished the book in Aug., Id' give her the tests and when she started missing more than 2 on each test, we would start at that point in the next book. That way you might not be as behind as what you think.

 

When we start a new Saxon book, I let them "test out" as far as they can with a 90%. We usually get up to Lesson 25 or 30 that way. Much of the beginning of the Saxon books are review, but I do find they introduce new concepts (or practice in combining concepts) near the end, so I'm not so inclined to skip those.

 

BTW, we are in the same boat. Two kids with various required therapies this year, on top of dh's cancer last year, and we are not where we need to be in core areas. But we are ahead in their self-accomplished science and history studies. I am freaking a bit as we have an interview with the private school principal this Friday for high school admissions. Just how to explain to an institutional administrator that yes, we CAN do a whole math course in 2 months if need be???

 

Mariann, can you post a link for the Saxon DVDs? This is something I've not seen before, sounds different from the DIVE???

[J-rap]

Doesn't 6/7 mean 6th or 7th grades? Seems to me we often went into the next year to finish up. At some point we figured out how to do a textbook per year, but for the first few years, it seems it took us about a year and a half to get through a text (esp. when we used Saxon). I think we skipped Pre-Algebra altogether, because I felt they didn't need it... and we jumped right into Algebra. That seemed to catch us up again.

[AuntieM]

Doesn't 6/7 mean 6th or 7th grades? Seems to me we often went into the next year to finish up. At some point we figured out how to do a textbook per year, but for the first few years, it seems it took us about a year and a half to get through a text (esp. when we used Saxon). I think we skipped Pre-Algebra altogether, because I felt they didn't need it... and we jumped right into Algebra. That seemed to catch us up again.

 

When Saxon published the third edition of 87, prealgebra was integrated into that book. It's no longer necessary as a stand alone course unless perhaps you've done something other than Saxon through 7th/8th grade level (and maybe not even then, depending on the program used).

[Janie Grace]

When Saxon published the third edition of 87, prealgebra was integrated into that book. It's no longer necessary as a stand alone course unless perhaps you've done something other than Saxon through 7th/8th grade level (and maybe not even then, depending on the program used).

 

Wait, I'm confused. Are you saying Algebra 1/2 is no longer necessary, or 8/7? Dd is trying to convince me that once she finishes 7/6, we can skip 8/7 and go straight to Algebra 1/2 (she heard this from some friends) -- is that true?

[Rhonda in TX]

We are kind of in this boat, but not quite as bad. I decided to skip the tests. Every 5 lessons we are combining two. For example, for lessons 71 and 72, we cover the new material and the practice problems. He then does the whole problem set for lesson 72. We'll then do the same thing for 76 and 77, etc. I got this idea from the DIVE cd. They give it as an option.

 

Doing this, we'll be done at the beginning of July.

[jelbe5]

No slams from me. Both my daughters are behind in math. We are using TT which I am happy with. Right now they are doing a lesson a day, sometimes on weekends. We will just keep on keepin' on and then move up when done with the current level. I am finally not stressing too much . . . we still plan to take some vacation time in summer so math will not get done then, but I am okay with us continuing math through the summer. I actually think that math and reading are two subjects that should be done all year round. I struggled so much with math and looking back I think it would have helped me if I had not had three months off every year from math.

[AuntieM]

Wait, I'm confused. Are you saying Algebra 1/2 is no longer necessary, or 8/7? Dd is trying to convince me that once she finishes 7/6, we can skip 8/7 and go straight to Algebra 1/2 (she heard this from some friends) -- is that true?

 

You can proceed directly from 87 (e3rd) to Algebra 1. The Algebra 1/2 was built into it.

 

I suppose some may go from 76 to Algebra 1/2 to Algebra 1, but I don't know of anyone personally who has done that. I would have to look hard at the books before saying I would go that route.

 

My point was that the old progression (e2nd books) was 87, Alg 1/2, Alg 1. It is my understanding (and experience with my eldest) that the revision makes Alg 1/2 redundant.

 

Some folks skip along the way; I've heard of skipping 65 since it is very much review. But I am not a math expert so I will not be recommending that to anyone! Please page Jann in TX for that sort of info!

[mrs.m]

\

I suppose some may go from 76 to Algebra 1/2 to Algebra 1, but I don't know of anyone personally who has done that. I would have to look hard at the books before saying I would go that route.

 

My point was that the old progression (e2nd books) was 87, Alg 1/2, Alg 1. It is my understanding (and experience with my eldest) that the revision makes Alg 1/2 redundant.

 

Some folks skip along the way; I've heard of skipping 65 since it is very much review. But I am not a math expert so I will not be recommending that to anyone! Please page Jann in TX for that sort of info!

 

 

I called Art Reed to ask last week. I keep getting mixed advice. If you are using the newer additions you can skip 87 and go straight to 1/2 based on how they are doing at the end of 76. That's what he advised us to do because her scores are high. Although I know a mom who used 87 on one child and Alg 1/2 on another and skipped right into Alg. 1 and she said both were successful. She didn't feel like there was much difference between 87 and Alg 1/2.

[Mom0012]

I'd keep going through the summer, taking breaks here and there for vacations or camps. I wouldn't worry about not being finished right at August 31st, but I'd want to finish sometime in the fall so that we didn't have the same scenario again the following summer.

 

Then again, we do math and grammar in the summers anyway, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

 

Lisa

[JFSinIL]

I'd plug at it but not as many lessons a day - maybe take until Christmas to finish - then move into next level BUT since she won't have had time to forget any math (as kids do over summer break) she won't need a lot of the first 40 or so lessons of the next level. Usually the first 40 lessons are largely review of the previous year's work, to make-up for what is "lost" over summer.

 

I took one kid out of 5th grade mid-year and put her into 6th grade Teaching Textbooks. She did it for the rest of the year and over the summer, and finished most of it by fall. Then the next level of math, we skimmed over the first 40 lessons, only doing what was new to her, within a week.

 

It is doable.

[MrsMe]

Something I forgot -- dd did saxon in private school -- they routinely did even numbered problems of even numbered lessons and odd numbered problems of odd numbered lessons -- they didn't ever do all the problems in a single lesson. HTH.

 

We used Saxon a while back. If dd got the odds right, she didn't have to do the evens.

[Desert Rat]

I wouldn't rush it. When she finishes it, she finishes. However, I do think I would continue through summer. And, I would give odds or evens when applicable and if she is completely understanding the concepts. Busy work isn't necessary, mastery is. I'm not familiar with Saxon, so these are general ideas vs. specific.

And I sure hope no one slammed you for being behind! That would be terrible! I work to the pace of my kids. It took ds8 and me 2.5 years to get most of the way through Phonics Pathways and we still didn't finish it!

[mcconnellboys]

Do you make her do all the problems? I might have her stop working the review problems for a while and just work a selection of the new problems so that you could move through more lessons per day and finish sooner....