What race are you...? Are you sure?

[Cheryl in NM]

Reading the "Is negro offensive" thread caused me to do some research.

 

I checked the meaning of "Caucasian" and came up with this. Caucasian refers to anything from the Caucasus region, Caucasian race, a term sometimes used to refer to white people, and a few other unrelated items.

 

The Caucasus region is generally around the USSR.

Caucasian race in common use has come to described American English people.

 

White people means different things in different regions.

White Americans is described as follows:

The United States Census Bureau defines White people as those "having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, and the White populations within the Middle East, or North Africa", presumably referring to Ethnic groups of Europe, Ethnic groups of the Middle East and Ethnic groups of North Africa, respectively.[5]

For those who don't respect Wikipedia as a source (I only use it as a jumping off point), here is Webster's definition, which matches the people from Caucasus region.

 

I've always wondered where the word Caucasian came from. One thing I know for sure; I am not Caucasian by pure definition. My ancestors are from Germany and Norway. I am officially "other" and a minority. :tongue_smilie:

 

I just think it's funny that all other races in America get their own name, based on where they are from, but all the "white" people are lumped together with the Russians!

[Carol in Cal.]

I consider myself European American.

[twoforjoy]

I'd consider myself white. It's been a long time since I've seen "Caucasian" even offered as an option when checking off my race in box. Usually I check "White, Non-Hispanic," which is a common option.

[Melissa in Australia]

I am Australian, but come from a Anglo -Saxon background

[LauraGB]

According to the Wiki White American you linked, I'm that. However, I do think someone lied somewhere in my heritage because my cheekbones (and my mother's) are entirely too high and chiseled not to have some Native American in the lineage. And my eye color - well, that's questionable, too. I guess we never really know, do we?

[Parrothead]

My ancestral tribes are the Scots and the Irish. Larger from that I'm of European decent. Then still larger I'm white. I'm also a green-eyed red head.;)

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

Spain is from Europe. Are they considered European/Caucasian or Hispanic? (My Great-grandfather would roll over in the grave if he head me ask that question. He immigrated from Spain and he was always very insistent that he was not "Hispanic" in the way anyone from South America was.)

 

And how long back do you have to go to decide that's what you are? Because I have family that descends from English immigrants in America since before the American Revolution. Why isn't American a race?

[Matryoshka]

I consider myself European American.

 

:iagree: I don't like defining anyone based on color. It really struck me as we were reading history books and they talked about Native Americans and African Americans and Asian Americans and... whites. Do "white" people come from somewhere other than Europe? (and yes, I know we've all been here for generations, but I'd much rather identify on culture than color - especially if only one group is referred to that way). Let's be consistent.

 

I could also define myself as German-American (although I also have lots of British Isle blood, I identify more with my German heritage, perhaps because it's more recent, or on my maternal side).

 

And yeah, Caucasian - that's going even further back. That'd be tracing my heritage back to the homeland of the proto-Indo-Europeans.

Edited April 29, 2011 by matroyshka

[Gratia271]

I consider myself European American.

 

DH and I do too.

[Parrothead]

Spain is from Europe. Are they considered European/Caucasian or Hispanic? (My Great-grandfather would roll over in the grave if he head me ask that question. He immigrated from Spain and he was always very insistent that he was not "Hispanic" in the way anyone from South America was.)

 

And how long back do you have to go to decide that's what you are? Because I have family that descends from English immigrants in America since before the American Revolution. Why isn't American a race?

Anthropologically there are only three races in the world - Asian, black and white. It has to do with the shape of the long bones in the legs. That is how a medical examiner can determine race from a skeleton.

 

Everything else is tribal.

[Cheryl in NM]

Spain is from Europe. Are they considered European/Caucasian or Hispanic? (My Great-grandfather would roll over in the grave if he head me ask that question. He immigrated from Spain and he was always very insistent that he was not "Hispanic" in the way anyone from South America was.)

 

And how long back do you have to go to decide that's what you are? Because I have family that descends from English immigrants in America since before the American Revolution. Why isn't American a race?

 

See, this is what I'm disputing, before America was settled, Caucasians were from Caucasus, near Russia. Then, America was settled, slaves were brought in and it was "whites", which later were named Caucasian and "blacks". It was yet another segregation tool. Then, the dictionaries were "updated" with the slang and now Caucasian is a viable race that includes every "white" person. It's just insane to me! :001_huh:

 

So, from here on out, I will be checking the "other" box. FTR, I'm pretty sure my census form had "Caucasian", not white. I also think it's ridiculous to refer to people by color! They just don't match!

 

According to the Wiki White American you linked, I'm that. However, I do think someone lied somewhere in my heritage because my cheekbones (and my mother's) are entirely too high and chiseled not to have some Native American in the lineage. And my eye color - well, that's questionable, too. I guess we never really know, do we?

 

:iagree: I know there's Native American somewhere in there on Dh's side. His aunt could pass for a full-blooded Native American.

 

My maiden name is Drinkwater so one of my uncles swears there's Native American on my side. But there are no physical characteristics, so I don't know.

[gardening momma]

Spain is from Europe. Are they considered European/Caucasian or Hispanic? (My Great-grandfather would roll over in the grave if he head me ask that question. He immigrated from Spain and he was always very insistent that he was not "Hispanic" in the way anyone from South America was.)

According to Wikipedia, "Hispanic" is a term "that originally denoted a relationship to Hispania, which is to say the Iberian Peninsula." Spain is in the Iberian Peninsula.

 

Also from Wikipedia: "The term has also been used to denote the culture and people of countries formerly ruled by the Spanish Empire, usually with a majority Hispanophone population. Collectively known as Hispanic America, this region includes Mexico, Cuba and the majority of the Central and South American countries, and most of the Greater Antilles."

[Cheryl in NM]

Anthropologically there are only three races in the world - Asian, black and white. It has to do with the shape of the long bones in the legs. That is how a medical examiner can determine race from a skeleton.

 

Everything else is tribal.

 

That's right. I learned that somewhere and forgot it! That's so cool!

[Matryoshka]

Anthropologically there are only three races in the world - Asian, black and white. It has to do with the shape of the long bones in the legs. That is how a medical examiner can determine race from a skeleton.

 

Actually, I've read that the different tribal groups in Africa are more different genetically one from the other than all the other people of the world put together.

[Chelli]

Talking about this reminds me of a girl I knew in college. She listed her race on all forms as African-American because her parents had immigrated to the US from Africa. The problem was she was as blonde-haired, blue-eyed, and pale skinned as I am. Her family was from South Africa. The admissions office kept trying to make her put down that her race was white, but she kept insisting that she was an Africa-American!

[Tutor]

Anthropologically there are only three races in the world - Asian, black and white. It has to do with the shape of the long bones in the legs. That is how a medical examiner can determine race from a skeleton.

 

Everything else is tribal.

 

Specifically: Mongoloid, Caucasoid, and Negroid.

 

But anthropological and political are not the same... or so my dh reminds me whenever I bring up my frustrations over racial classifications for political purposes. :)

[The Girls' Mom]

Our family tree is so mixed up, that if we REALLY wanted to pick a race we couldn't. My kids are all blond/blue eyed, but they have Melungeon tribe ancestory on one, perhaps both sides. There are German, Dutch, Cherokee, Irish, black and more in our family. We have a huge range of looks in our family as well. My dad and uncle look rather hispanic, my uncle on the other side is red headed/Irish looking. I kind of giggle every time I check Caucasian on any form.

[Chelli]

My maiden name is Drinkwater so one of my uncles swears there's Native American on my side. But there are no physical characteristics, so I don't know.

 

I actually am a member of the Chickasaw nation of Oklahoma (Indian card and everything). However, I am 5'10", have strawberry blonde hair, blue eyes, and pale skin. My great-grandmother was full blood, but she married my great-grandfather who was first generation Irish American. Guess which set of genes won out?

 

ETA: BTW, I never check that I am Native American on forms. I always check white/non-Hispanic. I wish they had the option of mutt since I am Chickasaw, Cherokee, Irish, English, and Dutch (that I know of!)

Edited April 29, 2011 by pw23kids

[Karen in CO]

I generally tell my kids that we're mutts.

Edited April 30, 2011 by Karen in CO

[akmommy]

I think many American who have been here more than a generation or two if they really gave it some thought would have trouble accurately checking a box on forms. Recently I have chosen to quit trying. If there is a "I prefer not to divulge that information" option I check that, and if there is only an other option I check that. If I'm feeling snarky I write in human. I look forward to the day when we as a nation decide this method of dividing people is outdated and unnecessary.

 

Personally, I'm native American, Irish, Scottish, German, French Canadian (whatever that means), English, it's rumored that there is some African, but I can't verify that, and who knows what else. So what? If you must put a label on me I'm an American, or a U.S. Citizen, thank you very much.

[Parrothead]

Specifically: Mongoloid, Caucasoid, and Negroid.

 

But anthropological and political are not the same... or so my dh reminds me whenever I bring up my frustrations over racial classifications for political purposes. :)

There you go. I couldn't think of the "oids."

 

As for the political, that is what I mean by tribal. Political/tribal boundaries are fluid and change over time. People put allegiance to their tribe ahead of their race.

 

And it is those classifications for political purposes that keep us separated.

[Impish]

I'm Canadian. ;)

[twoforjoy]

:iagree: I don't like defining anyone based on color. It really struck me as we were reading history books and they talked about Native Americans and African Americans and Asian Americans and... whites. Do "white" people come from somewhere other than Europe? (and yes, I know we've all been here for generations, but I'd much rather identify on culture than color - especially if only one group is referred to that way). Let's be consistent.

 

I tend to think it's consistent in the sense of using the preferred terms. Most white people don't refer to themselves as "European Americans" or prefer that term; they just say "white." (Not to say some don't, but that's just not the most common or preferred term.)

 

And, white people do come from places other than Europe. There are white people from parts of North Africa, the Middle East, and Asia (like Russia).

[Lovedtodeath]

I read an article about how many "African Americans" have a lot of Native American heritage and don't know it. I am of the believe that most "White Americans" do as well.

[Lovedtodeath]

Anthropologically there are only three races in the world - Asian, black and white. It has to do with the shape of the long bones in the legs. That is how a medical examiner can determine race from a skeleton.

 

Everything else is tribal.

 

Spain is from Europe. Are they considered European/Caucasian or Hispanic? (My Great-grandfather would roll over in the grave if he head me ask that question. He immigrated from Spain and he was always very insistent that he was not "Hispanic" in the way anyone from South America was.)

 

And how long back do you have to go to decide that's what you are? Because I have family that descends from English immigrants in America since before the American Revolution. Why isn't American a race?

 

 

This thread is fascinating.

[Unicorn.]

I'm of the human race. :D My heritage and ancestory are Texan (yes, we are a breed all our own- :lol: ) American, German, Welch, English, Scottish, Native American.

 

Sorry, I'm feeling snarky this evening.

[secular_mom]

I'm 'white', but more specifically I am VERY light brown with dark brown spots, brown eyes, dark brown hair and Irish and Native American ancestors.

[jewellsmommy]

Our family tree is so mixed up, that if we REALLY wanted to pick a race we couldn't. My kids are all blond/blue eyed, but they have Melungeon tribe ancestory on one, perhaps both sides. There are German, Dutch, Cherokee, Irish, black and more in our family. We have a huge range of looks in our family as well. My dad and uncle look rather hispanic, my uncle on the other side is red headed/Irish looking. I kind of giggle every time I check Caucasian on any form.

 

 

My father is Melungeon! I have never met anyone else that has identified this. It is hysterical that no one can figure out what he is :lol:. He has been mistaken as hispanic and middle eastern.

[stripe]

That is how a medical examiner can determine race from a skeleton.

I think it's more of an informed guess or estimate. It's not a sure thing.

This is an interesting discussion about it, from the PBS website to accompany Race: The Power of an Illusion.

 

I thought this was going to be a thread about people who find out they're secretly part (whatever). Like Bliss Broyard.

Edited April 30, 2011 by stripe

[SailorMom]

We always just mark "white" or whatever the alternative is...

But I am about 50% Swedish, 25% French Canadian, and 25% Comanche.... I figure it doesn't really matter anymore. Sometimes my kids get curious, but we tell them they are mutts because their dad has so many different nationalities in his background :)

[Jean in Newcastle]

One of the reasons I hate discussions of race is because it seems like the old "one drop" rule still exists - at least if your skin or features take after any ancestor with color. My kids tell people they are Scottish - Filipino. They really would be a lot more than that. Even the Filipino part could be picked apart to be Chinese- Malay - Hispanic (though probably not "true Filipino" because the original inhabitants have been mostly pushed aside).

[MamaT]

I am 1/4 Cherokee from my mom (her dad was Cherokee and her mother was half Cherokee/half English), and my father's family was English.

 

What's funny is that I look like a mixture - my dad's features and curly hair, but I'm really dark skinned with dark eyes, my oldest sister has auburn hair with blue eyes and very fair skin, and my middle sister looks 100% Cherokee.

[Katiebug_1976]

Wow, I had never really thought about what it meant. I guess that excludes me. I am Choctah Indian, German, Dutch, Swedish...(and I think a couple more, but I cannot remember off the top of my head) so I guess that puts me in the "other" minority group. Cool! I'm a minority!!he!he!

Edited April 30, 2011 by Katiebug_1976

[Wheres Toto]

I just say we are all American mutts.

 

Oldest dd is Irish, Swedish, German, English, Italian and Welsh.

Younger two are Irish, Swedish, German, English and Polish. Dh and I are both English, Irish and German. I'm also Swedish and he's Polish. There could be other things in there but these are what we are sure of.

 

We are all very, very white. ODD has red hair and brown eyes and whenever someone says something to her about being Irish she likes to reply "actually I'm Italian". :-) Younger kids are blonde hair, blue/hazel eyes and pale skin.

Edited April 30, 2011 by dottieanna29

[sleepymommy]

Indians from the north areas of India were considered Caucasian, as they were actually from the region, until the term Caucasian became reserved solely for white people.

 

http://www.sikhpioneers.org/legis.html

[kchara]

I'm Cherokee-German-English-Scot-Irish. In other words, a whiter than white American Mutt. (Except for the Cherokee... which is so far back I don't hold any features anymore.)

[MischiefManaged]

 

And it is those classifications for political purposes that keep us separated.

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

I *always* check 'other' if i have to check *just one*.... or I check every single option if allowed.

 

If I have the option, i also write in 'American mutt' :)

[AndyJoy]

I'm an American Mutt.

 

Here are my great-grandparent's ancestries:

 

Spanish (1st Generation in America)

Spanish (1st Generation in America)

 

Welsh (2nd Generation in America)

German/English (2nd Generation in America)

 

German (2nd Generation in America)

German Jew (2nd Generation in America)

 

Irish/Scottish (2nd or 3rd Generation in America)

?

 

Not a Caucasian among them, huh?:001_smile:

[lllll]

...

Edited December 19, 2012 by ksva

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Personally, I'm native American, Irish, Scottish, German, French Canadian (whatever that means),

 

Hey! Stop insulting me! ;)

 

I'm 100% French Canadian. In the 1970s, historians set out to find the descendants of the first pionner in Quebec, and that's how we got our complete family tree for free. As much as we can be sure (and we're never 100% sure), I don't have one drop of blood that's not from French Canadians, or directly from France. Not even Native blood, which is a bit special since there was so many interbreeding. I'm not a mutt, woohoo! :lol: :tongue_smilie:

[mcconnellboys]

Yes, the old terms (no longer is use, I believe) were: Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid. These were classifications that embodied certain genetic characteristics of race, as Chucki mentioned, things like shape of the nose, pore and sweat gland structures, eye flaps, type of hair and other things that helped peoples in their environments.

 

Because there's been so much admixture among the races over time and in particular over the past few decades, as we've become more global, I wonder how physical anthropologists now can go about attempting to determine the identities of crime victims if they don't have some idea going in about their racial identities. I mean, at one time, there were certain standards for rebuilding the face of a person of xyz race. Not only are there some differences in bone structure in general, but there are differences in placement of fat pads, etc., too. I'm guessing that with admixture of races, these lines are being blurred, so am unsure how forensics work on rebuilding faces, etc. would work now....

 

And me? Like most Americans I'm an admixture. While many of my ancestors were from England, Scotland and/or Ireland, I've also found African American (and I say that because they were 17th century), as well as Cherokee background in my family tree. I think "race" has become much more about self-identification than about any meaningful difference in biology....

[Geek]

I'm a mutt with ancestors who came with the pilgrims, fled the potato famine, put their seven children ages 5-17 on a ship for America and stayed behind themselves, etc. Norwegian, Dutch, German, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, English...that I know of.

 

My husband is Slovenian. I take great delight in telling him that his children are mutts. :D

Edited April 30, 2011 by Geek

[FrogMom5]

Mexican (a mix of Native American and Spanish)

German

Irish

Dutch

Cherokee

Scottish

 

So it makes me a Mutt. Why don't they have Mutt on the census form? (don't answer that)

 

I do wonder when it really won't matter anymore.

Denise

[akmommy]

Hey! Stop insulting me! ;)

 

I'm 100% French Canadian. In the 1970s, historians set out to find the descendants of the first pionner in Quebec, and that's how we got our complete family tree for free. As much as we can be sure (and we're never 100% sure), I don't have one drop of blood that's not from French Canadians, or directly from France. Not even Native blood, which is a bit special since there was so many interbreeding. I'm not a mutt, woohoo! :lol: :tongue_smilie:

 

Lol, I honestly was never sure what it meant.Does it mean that my grandmothers people came here from the French part of Canada or that they originally arrived in Canada from France? I'm guessing from what you said that it means they are originally from France, but I have no idea if any of them mixed it up with the natives or not. Lol

[Mergath]

I'm pretty much half Irish (on my dad's side) and half Norwegian (on my mom's side). I tracked my family tree online awhile ago, and apparently my ancestors who came to the US were fairly snooty and stuck with spouses from the home country. :tongue_smilie: My husband's family is completely French Canadian, back to the early 1700s.

[RoughCollie]

I am 1/8 American Indian, 1/4 Irish, 1/8 English, 1/2 German. My German relatives still live in Germany, except for my Mom. I'm in the 4th generation of Irish relatives.

 

The kids are 1/16 American Indian, 3/16 Irish, 1/4 German, and some mixture of Dutch, English, Irish, and Scottish.

 

The dog, however, is a purebred.

Edited April 30, 2011 by RoughCollie

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Lol, I honestly was never sure what it meant.Does it mean that my grandmothers people came here from the French part of Canada or that they originally arrived in Canada from France? I'm guessing from what you said that it means they are originally from France, but I have no idea if any of them mixed it up with the natives or not. Lol

 

Back in the good old days, Canada was all French :D and the term 'Canadian' referred to French speaking people. And yes, of course, they originally all came from France, and were all Catholics. (Non Catholic French people immigrated to the South of Canada, aka USA). The Canadiens were also coureurs des bois, and later they were known as voyageurs. So we basically sent our men all over this continent, to breed indiscriminately with Native women. Sacagawea of Lewis & Clark fame had a child by a Canadien, thus proving that Lewis & Clark were not the first Europeans in that area :tongue_smilie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacagawea#Early_life

[FrogMom5]

CleoQc -

 

So do Canadians consider Americans the southern contigent? The southern suburb? I might not mind being part of Canada's southern territory. :)

 

Tracing immigration and heritage patterns is so interesting. Apparently, my family also has a line of blue-bloods going back to the 900's. I don't spend too much time thinking about it though.

 

Interesting thread. Thank OP.

Denise

[JustGin]

 

I just think it's funny that all other races in America get their own name, based on where they are from, but all the "white" people are lumped together with the Russians!

 

:lol: I'm in direct line through my father to a whole village of Swiss folks on the German/Swiss border. They all still live there too. So I henceforth shall assume offense at being labeled Caucasian. Russian - hmmmpf...Yodel le he hoo...and pass the cocoa. ;)

[Lovedtodeath]

One of the reasons I hate discussions of race is because it seems like the old "one drop" rule still exists - at least if your skin or features take after any ancestor with color.

I say French and Greek because that is who I look like... my Great Aunt. I look just like her. In reality I have Irish, Dutch, Native American, etc. etc. in there too.:)