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Sevilla

Sevilla

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Blog Post: Third Culture School

 

What a hilarious article...I loved all the not-so-subtle jabs at the classical approach and the WTM in particular (the references to memorization, learning schedules, narration, parent-directed schooling, and Latin). And yet it's a perfect example of why the critical thinking and writing skills a classical approach teaches is so important. And how basic principles of argument and logic are a lost art in our society (false dichotomies anyone?).

 

Things I learned from the article: Did you know that not unschooling can be equated with socialism? :confused: I had no idea - until I read the article that is and was promptly set straight...I guess that works well for us given that I'm a political liberal ;). Same goes for the use of the author's use of the term 'freedom' which IMO means something entirely different in a Christian context than it does in a (radical) unschooling context she describes.

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unsinkable

unsinkable

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Posted
Blog Post: Third Culture School

 

What a hilarious article...I loved all the not-so-subtle jabs at the classical approach and the WTM in particular (the references to memorization, learning schedules, narration, parent-directed schooling, and Latin). And yet it's a perfect example of why the critical thinking and writing skills a classical approach teaches is so important. And how basic principles of argument and logic are a lost art in our society (false dichotomies anyone?).

 

Things I learned from the article: Did you know that not unschooling can be equated with socialism? :confused: I had no idea - until I read the article that is and was promptly set straight...I guess that works well for us given that I'm a political liberal ;). Same goes for the use of the author's use of the term 'freedom' which IMO means something entirely different in a Christian context than it does in a (radical) unschooling context she describes.

 

All I can think is, "How in the world can the kid hold a pencil like that?" :confused: (the pic of the child drawing a horse)

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Veritaserum

Veritaserum

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False dichotomy is right. Just because my kids are required to do math daily, memorize poetry, and learn Latin does not mean that they don't get to build things and get dirty. :tongue_smilie: I don't chain them to a desk all day. :)

 

There is a huge movement in my area for a philosophy of Christian/conservative unschooling (TJEd). I was introduced to it when my oldest was 3. By the time she was 7, I knew it was not a method likely to result in the education I want my kids to have. Homeschoolers like me (who require certain school tasks and direct learning) are something of a rarity around here. TJEd teaches that my approach/TWTM approach will instill a hate of learning and turn my children into mindless robots. :rolleyes: I am confident that my approach is right for my kids, and I am also confident that my approach is more likely to result in well-educated scholars. After all, it's the type of education Thomas Jefferson actually had when he was a young student. ;)

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Rivka

Rivka

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Gosh, I have no idea why people get upset when she explains that their children are worse off than her children because hers get to run, climb, play, be silly, rest, get dirty, build, explore, draw, and read.

 

It's probably because they're socialists.

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Ginevra

Ginevra

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Yeah, what bugs me is when unschooler-types think that we who do structured school are blindly doing what we think is the normal model of education. Like we have never thought about it or considered why we do what we do. They don't seem aware that there are homeschoolers (like me!) who studied unschooling, but found it wanting. Who chose structure and classical on purpose after considering other models. And, of course, the constant implication that if you do math every day you can't possibly also build, get dirty, walk in the woods, climb on play equipment and draw. :glare:

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Mrs Mungo

Mrs Mungo

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I'm really not sure how one can make the argument that classical education=socialism? Socialism (in the pure sense) doesn't want its citizens employing rhetoric or the other tools given a person through classical education; socialism wants them to be cogs in a machine. I don't know that there is a current model that fits socialism. Public schools aren't even giving people the tools to be proper cogs in a machine in most cases.

 

What model of government does unschooling fit? Anarchy?

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Gooblink

Gooblink

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I thought she was just saying that classical education looks good on paper, like socialism.

 

And to that I say, um, yeah...it does. Especially important papers, like transcripts.

 

I didn't read, just skimmed the post, though. If I don't get the point of the article within the first paragraph, I'm done.

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KrissiK

KrissiK

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I had to kind of laugh at her superior attitude. The thing is, and I think the title of the book "The Well-Trained Mind" says it all. Classical education is training and there is not one person who can make it anywhere in this world without training of some sort. We don't have our children memorize things endlessly because we particularly think these poems or lists or anything else are so important. It's because all of these things we do to our children are training their minds, strengthening their thought process. I believe classical education is not an end in itself, and far from being restrictive, I believe that when you give children a classical education, a rigorous education, it frees them even more to explore anything in life they want because they have the tools to do it. It reminds me of "The Karate Kid". Poor Daniel hated washing all those cars and painting the fences, but the point wasn't washing the cars or painting the fences - the point was the training. Not only the physical training, but that kid learned to be submissive to his teacher - all those things a good karate guy needs to be. My family would be horrible candidates for the type of education that chick is promoting. If I let my oldest boy follow his natural inclinations... he would be happily illiterate his entire life. And live at home letting mom and dad support him. Playing video games.

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Mergath

Mergath

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I agree! All Christians should use only an unschooling approach! No more curricula for any of you!

 

(Because then the hsing publishers will have to publish secular hsing stuff instead. Maybe even a Pagan curriculum! :D)

 

Seriously though, after reading the blog, the phrase "self-righteous nutbag" comes to mind.

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Lovedtodeath

Lovedtodeath

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I agree! All Christians should use only an unschooling approach! No more curricula for any of you!

 

(Because then the hsing publishers will have to publish secular hsing stuff instead. Maybe even a Pagan curriculum! :D)

 

Seriously though, after reading the blog, the phrase "self-righteous nutbag" comes to mind.

:lol:

 

Seriously though, it was obviously a blog in support of unschooling and I can understand that. ::shrug:: I don't see it as a big deal.

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Plucky

Plucky

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I agree! All Christians should use only an unschooling approach! No more curricula for any of you!

 

(Because then the hsing publishers will have to publish secular hsing stuff instead. Maybe even a Pagan curriculum! :D)

 

 

 

Secular and pagan people need to write more curriculum. What little Christian curric I use was created by Christians. :001_smile:

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dangermom

dangermom

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I think she's fallen into the trap of assuming that classical education is joyless and uncreative. Which, as we all know, is not the case. Also, she's looking pretty arrogant, but then so did we all before we became parents/learned the plural of curriculum/discovered that there is more than one path in life.

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calandalsmom

calandalsmom

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I don't get why you are all so worked up over her opinion. I think its probably defensiveness.

 

 

I dont really care what she says so I cant be bothered to comment on it, or even finish reading it.;)

 

I think plenty of classical schoolers are absolutely creating joyless educational environments and plenty aren't. There can be joyless unschoolers too. She probably just hasnt met any yet.

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SonshineLearner

SonshineLearner

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Funny, Scripture says (2 Timothy 2:15 (King James Version)

 

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

This, of course, is directly pertaining to studying the Word of God. You should know Scripture; how do you KNOW something? You STUDY it... you read it... you refer to it.... you LIVE it ;)

 

BUT, I can NOT believe that God who commands Christ followers (Christians) to study scripture, would think that studying academics is wrong. In fact, I believe that the model of studying and "hiding in your heart" the scriptures, would also want us to study HIS world.... and learn systematically about HIS world....

 

She can have her kids play all day.... and that's her thing... but my children?? They will play and learn... and when they get older... I hope they continue to play and learn... and have a job :)

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arghmatey

arghmatey

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Her mind is closed. Because she has not encountered many types of home schoolers (or is it simply that they don't feel the need to proclaim their superiority as she does), she assumes her way is so original and shiny. How silly. I'm way more interested in instilling the love of God, learning and wonder than in test and job preparation. Some days my daughter wants to be a bus driver or a pronk (Are You My Mother?). Fine. But she'll be a Latin- and Attic Greek-translating bus driver who knows how to shoot a bow and arrow, skin a deer, and many other things she wants to know.

 

I might even let her play and rest from time to time.

 

Jessica's ignorance of the world outside her five-mile radius is disturbing.

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DarlaS

DarlaS

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Ideals are nice, but here in the real world, if you're going to write, you should study grammar. Otherwise you run the risk of keeping a blog someday that makes you sound uneducated.

 

She strikes me as very young and idealistic (in the unrealistic sense).

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Margo out of lurking

Margo out of lurking

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I like how if you're not unschooling, you're not being Spirit-led...that seems a tad restrictive, and not very free. ;)

 

Not to mention that it screams LEGALISM.:lol:

 

In all serious, over the past 2-3 years, I've noticed a great increase in the number of new hsers/hsers with young children who claim to be experts in all aspects of hsing. It's amusing and annoying at the same time.

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Plucky

Plucky

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Not to mention that it screams LEGALISM.:lol:

 

In all serious, over the past 2-3 years, I've noticed a great increase in the number of new hsers/hsers with young children who claim to be experts in all aspects of hsing. It's amusing and annoying at the same time.

 

:iagree:

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Slartibartfast

Slartibartfast

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Posted (edited)

*Yawn*

 

Not clicking. It is boring really, if someone needs to tear someone down to pull themselves up then I figure they are less than secure in their choices. I have seen US people on boards whose children do very well, they exceed any expectations one might have, but I have also seen US on boards whose 8 year olds cannot read or their teens can barely write.

 

My kids don't run, play, climb trees and get dirty? That's hilarious!!

Edited by Sis
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kalphs

kalphs

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Posted
Blog Post: Third Culture School

 

What a hilarious article...I loved all the not-so-subtle jabs at the classical approach and the WTM in particular (the references to memorization, learning schedules, narration, parent-directed schooling, and Latin). And yet it's a perfect example of why the critical thinking and writing skills a classical approach teaches is so important. And how basic principles of argument and logic are a lost art in our society (false dichotomies anyone?).

 

Things I learned from the article: Did you know that not unschooling can be equated with socialism? :confused: I had no idea - until I read the article that is and was promptly set straight...I guess that works well for us given that I'm a political liberal ;). Same goes for the use of the author's use of the term 'freedom' which IMO means something entirely different in a Christian context than it does in a (radical) unschooling context she describes.

:001_huh:

So because my parents sent me to a school which taught classical education I am a socialist?

Has this author read Alison McKee's book "Homeschooling Our Children Unschooling Ourselves?" www.amazon.com

In her book Alison tells the story of her family's success with unschooling and how to do it. By the way this gracious lady helped author our state's homeschooling law.

I've known many families who have unschooled their children using Alison's plan and they have gone on to community colleges and the state university. On the flip side I've known of a couple of families who "unschooled" their children which ended in the children having no foundational skills for academics. The end result was failure to be admitted to the local community colleges and state university.

So because Dh and I are teaching Dd using the classical method/WTM we are turning her into a socialist?

Good grief Charlie Brown!

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dangermom

dangermom

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It's not a big deal or anything, but it does kind of bug me that she couldn't just say "Christian unschooling is a real and valid choice, and you can be led by the Spirit to unschool." Which is perfectly true. Taking shots at other philosophies was unnecessary to the premise of the post and looked mean. Oh well.

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Copswife

Copswife

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:iagree:

 

Not to mention that it screams LEGALISM.:lol:

 

In all serious, over the past 2-3 years, I've noticed a great increase in the number of new hsers/hsers with young children who claim to be experts in all aspects of hsing. It's amusing and annoying at the same time.

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justamouse

justamouse

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I don't think people here are hostile toward unschooling at all. In fact, there are many unschooling classical moms here. So yeah, false dichotomy to say a classical schooler can't unschool.

 

And I agree, what's with the new homeschoolers suddenly knowing it all? Please. I've been doing this for 8-9 years and I know nothing, and every new years reminds me of that.

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secular_mom

secular_mom

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I don't think people here are hostile toward unschooling at all. In fact, there are many unschooling classical moms here. So yeah, false dichotomy to say a classical schooler can't unschool.

 

And I agree, what's with the new homeschoolers suddenly knowing it all? Please. I've been doing this for 8-9 years and I know nothing, and every new years reminds me of that.

Oh please, people dis unschooling here ALL The Time, of course that kind of thing shows up more on my radar because we are an unschooling family.

It can be just as bad as Catholic bashing, etc.

It's her BLOG, she can write about whatever she wants, I do not get why people come here and post links to other people's blogs. I'm not saying it's 'wrong', just saying I don't get it. And this thread is full of comments that are, IMO, pot shots at the blogger linked above.

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SonshineLearner

SonshineLearner

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Oh please, people dis unschooling here ALL The Time, of course that kind of thing shows up more on my radar because we are an unschooling family.

It can be just as bad as Catholic bashing, etc.

It's her BLOG, she can write about whatever she wants, I do not get why people come here and post links to other people's blogs. I'm not saying it's 'wrong', just saying I don't get it. And this thread is full of comments that are, IMO, pot shots at the blogger linked above.

 

Isn't is a definition thing? If "I" were to "define" what I see in your house, would I think that you do "child led" with a "mama direction"? I mean... I've seen your posts, and can't help but think that you try to pave the road, a bit ahead of your children. Maybe not, but that's what i thought I saw... at least :)

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DarlaS

DarlaS

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In all serious, over the past 2-3 years, I've noticed a great increase in the number of new hsers/hsers with young children who claim to be experts in all aspects of hsing. It's amusing and annoying at the same time.

 

Yep. Young and idealistic. ;)

 

 

I am glad they're having a great time though. Really. :001_smile:

 

I do get inspired by their enthusiasm sometimes (Then I realize their experience with their one small child means little in my world of teens, driving instruction, middlers having growth spurts & dealing with new hormones, outside activities, pets, chickens, aging parents...).

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kalphs

kalphs

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Oh fer cryin out loud.

 

And seriously, my kids never run, they're never silly and they sure as heck are never allowed to play. I am busy raising little Marxists, here. :tongue_smilie:Back to the salt mines for the good of the country!

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

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secular_mom

secular_mom

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Isn't is a definition thing? If "I" were to "define" what I see in your house, would I think that you do "child led" with a "mama direction"? I mean... I've seen your posts, and can't help but think that you try to pave the road, a bit ahead of your children. Maybe not, but that's what i thought I saw... at least :)

Yes, definitions are tricky things. IMO, we are an unschooling family- but Radical Unschoolers would balk at that because I do tell the kids to go to bed, be quiet, etc. :D We do use texts and such, but when the kids ask for them. I do give direction when they ask for help with something. It does all get muddled, doesn't it?

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