Crying boys?

[justamouse]

How would you go about doing this?

 

 

Just pointing out that in the workforce losing patience and being harsh to coworkers, employers or customers probably would get one fired.

 

Your first two are blogs and hence opinion pieces. The last one is only one study. Nothing conclusive can be determined with one study. It also says:

 

NO ONE said a full blown PMS breakdown was acceptable. No one. But you cannot pretend PMS doesn't exist. You cannot say that it alters your personality in no measureable way. It is not imagiary and I get tired of people pretending it is. Even for me, who has hardly any PMS at all, I KNOW when I have it because my own measure of patience is smaller. My harsh sharp word in the tone of "Do that again." does not equal a dress down.

 

I knew they were opinion pieces, but someone whose opinion is shaping things. The last is the one I posted for an answer. And those two things

 

men sometimes earned higher marks in some critical areas, such as strategic ability and technical analysis.

are a small part of the testing and equation.

 

the girls won that one.

[Peela]

The crying is fine. Boys crying is great. I am so glad boys are allowed to cry nowadays, and adult men to. Bring it on! We need more of it.

 

The context however just exposes another issue...expectations, competition, putting self worth on external things....and that is unhealthy.

I would NOT focus on the crying at all. I woudl focus on that fact that the boy is upset over something that should really normally roll off him if he had a healthy self image. If he is crying to elicit sympathy...well, that is manipulative. ANd there IS a place for "manning up" about such things.

 

BUt, dont throw the baby out with the bathwater, please.

[Parrothead]

NO ONE said a full blown PMS breakdown was acceptable. No one. But you cannot pretend PMS doesn't exist. You cannot say that it alters your personality in no measureable way. It is not imagiary and I get tired of people pretending it is. Even for me, who has hardly any PMS at all, I KNOW when I have it because my own measure of patience is smaller. My harsh sharp word in the tone of "Do that again." does not equal a dress down.

 

I knew they were opinion pieces, but someone whose opinion is shaping things. The last is the one I posted for an answer. And those two things

 

are a small part of the testing and equation.

 

the girls won that one.

I'm not pretending PMS doesn't exist. But IMHO, PMS, no matter the amount, should not be inflicted on other people. If it were to the point that my dh and dd were suffering, even just a bit, by my PMS I'd be at the doctor looking for ways to control it better.

 

I think things are so bad now for women that every time a girl or woman is angry they are blown off by others as, "Don't pay any attention to her. She is PMSing."

 

As for the other. I've never heard of this woman and her blog. Her opinion on how to behave while working on my business means nothing to me.

 

Several conclusive studies done over a few years with a great quantity of test subjects would be convincing.

[Crissy]

The context however just exposes another issue...expectations, competition, putting self worth on external things....and that is unhealthy.

I would NOT focus on the crying at all. I woudl focus on that fact that the boy is upset over something that should really normally roll off him if he had a healthy self image.

 

I would suggest that we know nothing that led up to this young boy's emotional response.

I have been exposed to an awful lot of youth baseball in the past 10 years, and there are many, MANY reasons boys go off to the dugout in tears. In my experience, only a few of them have anything to do with unhealthy expectations and competition.

At what level expectations and competition become unhealthy...well, that's a different conversation altogether. :)

[Mama Geek]

NO ONE said a full blown PMS breakdown was acceptable. No one. But you cannot pretend PMS doesn't exist. You cannot say that it alters your personality in no measureable way. It is not imagiary and I get tired of people pretending it is. Even for me, who has hardly any PMS at all, I KNOW when I have it because my own measure of patience is smaller. My harsh sharp word in the tone of "Do that again." does not equal a dress down.

 

I knew they were opinion pieces, but someone whose opinion is shaping things. The last is the one I posted for an answer. And those two things

 

are a small part of the testing and equation.

 

the girls won that one.

 

Then why in 2008 & 2009 were there only 12 women running fortune 500 companies. Everyone knows that these businesses are only interested in 1 thing...making money.

[cin]

When my dh (an assistant coach) saw what was going on, he went over to the kid and pretty much told him to man up and get over it. He basically said that it was all on him that he struck out, stop blaming the umpire, when you have two strikes on you if it is close you have to swing, it's as simple as that, get over it and do it differently next time. That's finally when the kid stopped crying.

 

 

Obviously I wasn't there, but it sounds like he was whining/crying more about the umpire's call than striking out. And it sounds like Dh was telling him to man up and take responsibility for his actions, instead of blaming everybody else. IF he was crying and blaming the umpire for it, then yeah, I think Dh said the right thing. If my children try to blame someone else for the consequences of THEIR bad decisions, then I wouldn't coddle them. I would tell them to suck it up, accept responsibility, and face the music. JMHO :)

[Murphy101]

Sadly, I know many women who suffer huge communication problems with their mates because of the 'man up' philosophy. So, you're fortunate it's not you.

 

BUT here you say it--yes, we own up to them, yes, we acknowledge them and are told, in a loving manner. Not "Man up." which is sexist and demeaning.

 

I don't think women suffer communication problems with their spouse because of the man up philosophy. I think women suffer communication problems with their spouse because they want their man to communicate like a woman.

 

My husband can cry just fine.

His has no problems conveying stress, sorrow, frustration, or joy with me.

But he does not convey it like women do and I don't expect him to.

Anymore than he expects me to talk to him like his buddy from high school.

But that's probably a whole other thread.

 

When did telling boys to try to act like men become a sexist degrading insult? I think THAT is sexist and demeaning towards all men!:confused:

 

Is it also sexist and demeaning to tell girls to act like young ladies?:001_huh:

 

That said, when my my little drama queen goes overboard, she gets "Suck it up, Buttercup.":p

 

I LOVE that and now have a new phrase for my girls.:)

Prior to this new phrase, I had been telling my girls to woman up.:tongue_smilie:

[pqr]

 

When did telling boys to try to act like men become a sexist degrading insult? I think THAT is sexist and demeaning towards all men!:confused:

 

Is it also sexist and demeaning to tell girls to act like young ladies?:001_huh:

 

 

 

Well put, frankly I get a little tired of the whining I see among boys these days, most of them simply need to toughen up.

[Murphy101]

I'm not pretending PMS doesn't exist. But IMHO, PMS, no matter the amount, should not be inflicted on other people. If it were to the point that my dh and dd were suffering, even just a bit, by my PMS I'd be at the doctor looking for ways to control it better.

 

:iagree: It is ridiculous to suggest that PMS is a permissible excuse for erratic and or harsh behavior outside the home. At home, sure you might be more relaxed. But I don't have much respect for the professional who can't get it together and reliably act like a professional from week to week. I would hope they are seeking medical help if it is beyond their control. Because her PMS should not be her employees or coworkers or customers problem.

 

I think things are so bad now for women that every time a girl or woman is angry they are blown off by others as, "Don't pay any attention to her. She is PMSing."

 

Now I have that episode of Everybody Loves Raymond running through my head.:lol:

[RanchGirl]

Christy I think your dh did the kid, and the team, a favor. I don't picture it being humiliating at all... I suppose it depends on the tone but the words themselves aren't out of line in my opinion. I wonder if those who are so riled up do not have kids in competitive sports? Because 5+ minutes of drama on the bench is a long time to distract the team from the game. I've seen many hitters get teary eyed when they didn't do their best, but by the time they get back to the bench they should be moving on, more interested in supporting the team and learning by watching what's happening. Much better to channel that emotion into getting better at the game than playing up the 'poor me' drama.

 

And blaming the ump for something that was clearly this kid's mistake is completely unacceptable. (He should absolutely have swung (swinged?) the bat having 2 strikes already). It really sounds like this kid was playing the victim and playing up the drama. In my opinion, that is more of a problem in our society than men being stoic.

 

In my experience, it's usually the kids who really don't care about the game or the team that act like this. They're upset when they strike out, but they could care less if the team loses the game. At practice, they're goofing off -- they just want attention. They're not bad kids at all, but they could certainly use an attitude adjustment!

 

I am not a hard a$$ mom at all, and we love Elmo! But we are teaching our kids that there is a time and a place for all emotions, and they need to respect the ump's call and place the priority on the team when they are on the field.

[Sophia]

I didn't realize the phrase "man up" was so emotionally charged. :001_smile:

 

 

I didn't realize it either.

In fact, I just asked my three older dc what they thought about the phrase, and they all shrugged their shoulders. Not a big deal.

I think I'm going to start using it ;)

 

Fwiw, I'm not surprised the boy cried...I am surprised it went on for five minutes (and so was ds~"5 minutes! stop crying already!") and honestly, I think the reason the boy stopped when your dh approached him was partly out of relief. I think it's more embarrassing to have your teammates coddle you at that age, than having your coach tell you to knock it off.

 

Your dh sounds like a good coach.

[HRAAB]

I don't have boys, but I would be pretty surprised if my 12 yr old dd cried over a similar incident. If she did, I would tell her to take a couple deep breaths, get under control, and save it for when we got home. If we're home, I would suggest she go to her room for a few minutes. If it was whining, she'd get 'the look'. I don't handle whining very well.

 

I don't think I'm a mean mom. My 13 yr old dd had a rather horrible experience happen - very, very hurtful - at a friend's house. She kept it together until we got. I made us some tea, and let her cry on my shoulder. It really depends on circumstances.

 

I don't see anything wrong with telling a boy he needs to act like a man. I might say 'little man'. I don't like to the term 'man up' nor do I like 'suck it up'. I tell my daughters they need to act young women. By the age of 12, I looked at my daughters as young adults in training. That doesn't mean they might never have a moment in public, but it also means I need to gently help them move on.

 

I don't see how telling a boy to own up to his actions is going to somehow cripple him emotionally down the road. My dh had those expectations when he was that age, and he isn't afraid to show emotion and shed a few tears. The last time I saw him cry was when he walked his daughter down the aisle - in front of the guests.

[pqr]

IF.....

 

 

IF you can keep your head when all about you

Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,

But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,

Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,

Or being hated, don't give way to hating,

And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;

If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster

And treat those two impostors just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken

Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,

Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,

And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings

And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,

And lose, and start again at your beginnings

And never breathe a word about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew

To serve your turn long after they are gone,

And so hold on when there is nothing in you

Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!' If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,

' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,

if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,

If all men count with you, but none too much;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute

With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,

Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,

And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

hmmm.... no nothing about crying in this one and it is a pretty good guide.

[Embassy]

The crying is fine. Boys crying is great. I am so glad boys are allowed to cry nowadays, and adult men to. Bring it on! We need more of it.

 

:iagree:

[nd293]

I don't have time for 4 kids to be bawling every time they feel slighted.

 

Man up. Girls too.

 

I am not military, but I am not a normal mom either.:lol:

 

Same sentiments here. I'm not sympathetic to tears, so my kids don't cry much.

 

It was interesting to me to note that this is actually a disadvanatge to kids in a society where crying seems a norm. When dd was younger, if she was "wronged" by a friend, and emotions were intense, she would get (or look) angry, whereas young friend would produce a flood of dramatic tears. It's always the one in tears that gets sympathy, regardless of the facts of the event that precipitated the reaction.

[amy g.]

Everyone is different, but I believe that it's alright to cry.

 

http://www.lyricszoo.com/marlo-thomas/its-all-right-to-cry-rosey-grier/

[Snickerdoodle]

I think there is a difference between

whining and crying and

"I'm overwhelmed" or sad crying and

"I'm hurt" crying.

[pqr]

I think there is a difference between

whining and crying and

"I'm overwhelmed" or sad crying and

"I'm hurt" crying.

 

 

True, but I still preffered it when the saying and norm was "Boys do not cry."

 

 

...yes I know there were exceptions but they were far fewer than today.

[Snickerdoodle]

I saw a grown man cry when his spouse died.

[pqr]

I saw a grown man cry when his spouse died.

 

 

and no one would condemn him for that.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

I talked to my husband about this thread, and he thinks most men would have no problem with a coach saying, "Man up" to an 11-12 yo who had been crying for 5 minutes over a strike-out. It's the way men teach boys to be men.

 

I respect my husband (wouldn't have married him if I didn't!) and since he knows more about being a man than I do :D, I tend to leave that kind of stuff up to him. There were several times during my son's first season of baseball that he had to tell me to "back off--he's learning how to be a man."

[lula]

I would hope that's how a coach would handle the situation. (for both my son and daughter) Crying is fine, dealing with emotion is fine but in the middle of a game it is not fine (unless there is a physical injury of course) I understand that sometimes a kid may cry in the middle of a game for another reason but I would hope that all efforts would be made for them to stop crying immediately. (and I would hope that my child would be also trying to work at the not crying during baseball goal) I don't think the coach was mean at all and I don't really think the kids were helping by be coddling the boy. (there are other ways of showing support that I think would be more apropriate i.e. telling him to shake it off, get his head in the game etc. It was great that they were nice but seriously, sports aren't always fair, sometimes there are screw-ups and the goal is for kids to learn to keep their emotions in check at least temporarily)

 

This isn't about "is it ok for guys to cry at movies, or when someone dies, etc etc" There are situations in life where crying is not ok, after striking out in baseball is one of those times.

 

I don't really see this as a girl, boy issue, I don't want my daughter acting that way either. If you need to cry you cry after the game.

[justamouse]

Then why in 2008 & 2009 were there only 12 women running fortune 500 companies. Everyone knows that these businesses are only interested in 1 thing...making money.

 

 

Are you serious? :001_huh: You know, I didn't answer your other post for a reason, and to this one all I have to say is that the reason men are at the helm of most companies is because we live in a patriarchal society that sets men up to win, companies to be run by people who value family less, and for PMS and cycles to be an evil disease that must be scorned even by the women who have it.

 

We disagree. That is that. There is no way you can make me believe you are right on this.

[smrtmama]

Sorry, I hate the term "man up". The boy isn't a man. It was important to him. It would be hard to get through life if one fell apart over every disappointment, but I don't think this one episode means that is the case. And how does one know if the boy doesn't have some sort of emotional problems? Ya never really know what his story is.

 

Just to give you an example of "ya never really know". Our neighbor has a son who is about 12. He plays baseball. We have heard the dad screaming at the 12 year old when he had a bad game. He called him worthless and useless. I can imagine crying over baseball if I had that waiting for me at home.

 

Why is it the end of the world that the kid cried? Who knows at that moment what was really going on. Maybe he just had a bad day and one disappointment happened after another and that was the last straw.

 

This. I'm glad my boys don't feel ashamed to cry when they are really disappointed. I try to encourage controlling emotions over piddlin stuff, because male or female, you can't just fall apart all day, but if you're really hurt or sad or angry? Cry.

[Crissy]

I talked to my husband about this thread, and he thinks most men would have no problem with a coach saying, "Man up" to an 11-12 yo who had been crying for 5 minutes over a strike-out. It's the way men teach boys to be men.

 

 

 

My husband would probably say the same (that most men would find it okay), but personally would have dealt with the sort of situation in the OP a little differently.

A number of times I have seen him walk back to the dugout with a boy while telling him something along the lines of, "That's okay. It didn't work out this time, but you'll lay off the high one next time and you'll get a hit."

They'll have a brief conversation about strategy and get on with the game.

 

I just think there are better ways to deal with the emotions of other people's children than to point out that they're not being Man enough.

[Annie Laurie]

I talked to my husband about this thread, and he thinks most men would have no problem with a coach saying, "Man up" to an 11-12 yo who had been crying for 5 minutes over a strike-out. It's the way men teach boys to be men.

 

I respect my husband (wouldn't have married him if I didn't!) and since he knows more about being a man than I do :D, I tend to leave that kind of stuff up to him. There were several times during my son's first season of baseball that he had to tell me to "back off--he's learning how to be a man."

 

I asked my husband about this thread too, and he said he wouldn't like it if a coach had told our son to "Man up." My husband is Latino with too much machismo, so it says something to me that he didn't think it needed to be handled that way. Dh asked why the coach couldn't just distract everyone then, and call for a group huddle or something, and say very briefly how we might not always agree w the ump's decision but that does happen and we have to be good sports. Then move on to discussing the game, what the team's next move is, and end with something positive. Instead of focusing on the boy in a negative way, since the boy was probably already embarrassed and overwhelmed.

[Heather in WI]

We have one 12-year-old kid in scouts who is *always* crying about *everything*. Seriously! It is so completely over the top annoying. His parents totally coddle him, and while probably don't encourage it, certainly don't discourage it. I wish someone would tell him to man up! :lol:

 

I think how I would react (or want to react!) would depend on this boy's previous behavior. If he was having a horrible, no good, very bad day (did his dog die earlier in the day?), I would hug him. If it were constant (like the boy above), I'd roll my eyes and cheer inside for the parent who finally said something. :-)

[katilac]

I think that there is such a mixed response to this because the original post wasn't all that clear. As I read the follow up/clarifying posts, the dh's response seemed more appropriate (altho' I hate the term myself), b/c it became clearer that the issue was more about the boy complaining about the unfairness of the call, not the fact that he cried.

 

But the original post seemed centered on, "can you believe A BOY WAS CRYING? AND HIS FRIENDS WEREN'T LAUGHING??" and I think that it what people responded to so strongly.

[Danestress]

Now *I* would coddle my boy a little bit because I'm Mom but I would want the coach to help him be a better player.

 

I want my son's coaches to help them be better people - not just better players.

 

But I don't think you are weird to think it was good to say, "Get over it, move on." I do think it's a little weird to attribute so much significance to a boy getting upset. It's probably not about all the ills of society and child raising and what is wrong with kids today. Kids get upset about things at that age. My son could get upset about the dumbest things even at 14 or 15. Sometimes at 22 it still surprises me.

 

Puberty is a tough time in the life of a boy. Sometimes even THEY don't know where the emotion comes from. I think the more matter of fact and direct adults can be, the better. I do think they need to learn to harness their emotions and learn not to cry or carry on. But it will happen.

[Snowfall]

I think that there is such a mixed response to this because the original post wasn't all that clear. As I read the follow up/clarifying posts, the dh's response seemed more appropriate (altho' I hate the term myself), b/c it became clearer that the issue was more about the boy complaining about the unfairness of the call, not the fact that he cried.

 

But the original post seemed centered on, "can you believe A BOY WAS CRYING? AND HIS FRIENDS WEREN'T LAUGHING??" and I think that it what people responded to so strongly.

 

I agree. The attitude of the OP seemed much more about how unacceptable it was that a boy of this age cried.

 

I guess it was so weird to me to see this kid cry over this. He hasn't been the only one either. A few of the boys have cried over striking out or getting out.

 

I think seeing the whole "man up" thing in a post with the sentiment above gets some hackles up. It sounds like the DH in question didn't actually use the term "man up", but I do find it upsetting that 11 and 12yo kids aren't supposed to cry at all. The issue in the first post wasn't that he was complaining about the ump's call, but that boys of this age are crying about getting called out, regardless of whether it's a fair call or not. That may or may not have been the DH's attitude towards the kid (I can't really tell) but it's the attitude of the above quote from the OP, and I disagree.

[oldskool]

Just putting it out there, FWIW, there's nothing wrong with crying...whining, on the other hand...

 

:iagree: Especially at this age. I think it is fine for a coach to want to move on quickly and not coddle the kid, but boys need to know they have a safe space to have emotion. If it were something that happened all the time (and falling into the whining category) I could see the coach having a talk, but not at one incident. They are still growing and learning how to control thoughts and feelings. It is hard at my age to have perspective on different situations and I imagine that it would be harder at age 11. If we want kids to have empathy they must know it from others first.

 

Lesley

[scrappyhappymama]

And blaming the ump for something that was clearly this kid's mistake is completely unacceptable. (He should absolutely have swung (swinged?) the bat having 2 strikes already). It really sounds like this kid was playing the victim and playing up the drama. In my opinion, that is more of a problem in our society than men being stoic.

 

 

You know, I've spent the last several days watching my Rangers whoomp up on the Yankees :lol: and have seen many Major Leaguers strike out looking. If it happens to a professional in the playoffs, don't you think we could give a little grace to a young boy who doesn't swing at what he believes is clearly a ball?

 

Again, many many theories have been posed as to could have caused him to cry so. I have no love for pampered, coddled parenting, but I think it's a big presumption for us to assume that's what was going on here.

 

they need to respect the ump's call and place the priority on the team when they are on the field.

 

Totally agree that kids have to learn to respect the ump's call as final, but that still does not negate the fact that sometimes human umps make the wrong call. A child can feel sincerely disappointed by a mistaken call or disappointed in themselves for holding their swing when they shouldn't have. I obviously can't speak for this kid, but in many years of playing ball, teammates who became intensely emotional almost invariably did so due to feeling like their strike out or error had let their team down.

[Peela]

If we want kids to have empathy they must know it from others first.

 

 

 

I value empathy, but I suspect many don't. There are many men and some women in jobs where, if they had empathy, they couldnt do them. It is not a highly valued trait in our society in many areas. And people value success and jobs and money more than the higher human values.

[oldskool]

There are many men and some women in jobs where, if they had empathy, they couldnt do them.

 

Very True.

[RanchGirl]

You know, I've spent the last several days watching my Rangers whoomp up on the Yankees :lol: and have seen many Major Leaguers strike out looking. If it happens to a professional in the playoffs, don't you think we could give a little grace to a young boy who doesn't swing at what he believes is clearly a ball?

 

Again, many many theories have been posed as to could have caused him to cry so. I have no love for pampered, coddled parenting, but I think it's a big presumption for us to assume that's what was going on here.

 

 

 

Totally agree that kids have to learn to respect the ump's call as final, but that still does not negate the fact that sometimes human umps make the wrong call. A child can feel sincerely disappointed by a mistaken call or disappointed in themselves for holding their swing when they shouldn't have. I obviously can't speak for this kid, but in many years of playing ball, teammates who became intensely emotional almost invariably did so due to feeling like their strike out or error had let their team down.

 

Just to clarify, I don't see a problem with the mistake, we all make them, nor with feeling momentary disappointment, just with the extended hissy fit afterward, and the blaming of the ump instead of learning from the mistake. It just sounds like an attitude problem to me! I can see a half a minute of teary eyes, I can see a gripe or two about a bad call. But then you shake it off because it's all part of the game and not something to become overly dramatic about.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. :)

[EthiopianFood]

I think I missed the post where it said he was complaining about the ump. Was this the OP's interpretation of why he was crying, or was he actually complaining about this?

[RanchGirl]

In the first post Christy says that her dh told the kid to stop blaming the ump, which is part of the fit I am picturing. It doesn't say he was disappointed in himself for letting the team down or because his dog died that morning or because he was afraid his dad would yell at him that evening.... which would obviously make it a different situation.

[EthiopianFood]

In the first post Christy says that her dh told the kid to stop blaming the ump, which is part of the fit I am picturing. It doesn't say he was disappointed in himself for letting the team down or because his dog died that morning or because he was afraid his dad would yell at him that evening.... which would obviously make it a different situation.

 

It does make a huge difference. If he was really complaining about this, then yes, someone had to help this kid move along. I DO think it's okay for boys to cry, and I don't think it's a big deal.

 

I will say that you can not allow your children to take their bad moods out on the rest of the family, while stilling allowing them to cry. If a child crying is so disruptive to you that you must end it immediately, or at the very least send them away so you don't have to see it, I honestly believe that shows you are uncomfortable with crying, not that crying is, in and of itself, disruptive, manipulative, or inappropriate in any way. It is of a similar cloth as being a people-pleaser, and doing whatever it takes to make sure nobody around expresses unhappiness. It can also show a lack of understanding of those who have a differing personality than yourself, seeing whatever you can't relate to as pathological. I hope this doesn't come across as inflammatory. I am just tired and prefer to just state my opinion efficiently so I can go to bed. :tongue_smilie:

[In2why]

I am looking at this as both a coach and a Mom. As a Mom I want to comfort my son when he is disapointed. As a coach, I want him to realize that this is a game and that things happen, some under our control, and some that are not. But the things that we can control we have to take responsibility for and do differently.

I am noticing a difference in chidren in this generation versus the last. (I have children in both) The kids are more coddled and there is a lack in the ability to take responsibility for their actions. Everything is someone elses fault, and to a point I think the parents are responsible for some of it. Some parents try so hard to cushion any negatives in life, that the child misses valuable lessons in a safe environment, where the stakes aren't that high.

I like when the kids are intense. But it doesn't take much for the feelings turned inward and that result in crying, to turn outward and result in blaming. Parents do the same thing. There are so many inccidents of parents behaving badly at sports events. They scream at the unpires/refs. They actually hit other teams kids, they get in fights with the coaches and each other. I think there is a lot to be said for keeping emotions under control and remembering that is a game.

[Mama Geek]

Are you serious? :001_huh: You know, I didn't answer your other post for a reason, and to this one all I have to say is that the reason men are at the helm of most companies is because we live in a patriarchal society that sets men up to win, companies to be run by people who value family less, and for PMS and cycles to be an evil disease that must be scorned even by the women who have it.

 

We disagree. That is that. There is no way you can make me believe you are right on this.

 

It is pretty obvious we disagree:D

 

Men and women have different strengths, that doesn't make either good or bad.

 

Before jumping off the corporate ladder, I had worked my way up to project management level and have not seen any indication that I was held back b/c I was a woman. In fact I figure that I probably had some help along the way b/c I was female. Not that I think that is the right reason to promote someone and pay them more, but I didn't turn it down. Yes there are some some men who have bad attitudes about women in the workplace, but from what I have seen that is an exception not a rule. I think we are each responsible for where we go in life. I don't blame where I am on other people being unjust.

 

From what I have seen, it is not not true that running any company large or small means that you value family less.

[ktgrok]

I don't think this has anything to do with the fact he is a boy. I would have expected a girl to "man up" too in that situation. Silent tears while cheering on your team is one thing. Having a full on pity party in the middle of the dugout over striking out is another and should be dealt with.

 

Katie

 

Wow.

 

Um, from experience, 11 yo boys cry. A lot. And I HATE the man up thing. Hate it. It makes me see red and doesn't endear me to the people who say it UNLESS the person they are speaking to IS a man.

 

My brother, big huge hulking hunter/fisherman, neck broken in 14 places, cried like a baby when he was that age. They are as emotional as girls and it's a horrible double standard that a girl getting emotional on PMS is allowed to have a vent with crying, but it's NOT ok for a boy. They grow out of it.

[unsinkable]

So much here to talk about...

 

Crying can happen because of sadness, disappointment, frustration, rage (my specialty as a kid - DW doesn't even know that - sshhhh!), stress, anxiety, happiness/exhiliration, surprise, I'm sure there's more...both boys and girls have these emotions.

 

Crying can be a healthy stress release, particularly after a 'tense' round at the plate.

 

Boys go soft? I've seen a 9 yr old boy cry for being relentlessly teased, just before giving the bully a royal snotty bloody nose (richly deserved, mind you)...he didn't look too soft to me...

 

I've seen countless posts here that included declarations of 'I'm crying as I type...'

 

I've coached sports teams where frustration in a kid built to the point of crying, requiring me to 'pull' the player till he could calm down and get his head back in the game...he wasn't whining, weeping, or complaining...he was a kid, and the situation got a little overwhelming. I think that is normal...

 

Just putting it out there, FWIW, there's nothing wrong with crying...whining, on the other hand...

 

/slightly OT, game off

 

Once a pitcher (14 yo) was really moving like molasses on the mound and not putting any heat on the ball at.all. He was barely lobbing it over the plate. Coach called a TO, went to the mound and asked what was the matter.

 

"It's hot out here!"

 

Yaaaaaaank. Sit down, son.

 

(It was warm but not oppressive. It was a evening game in May.)

 

/game on

[unsinkable]

It's a learning situation.

 

It's part of growing up.

 

I've seen many boys reach their breaking point on the field and on the ice and start crying (and heard stories of sobbing in the locker room.) It has run the gamut of eyes filled with tears, to tears running down their face to all-out sobs.

 

Among decent boys, the boy code seems to be to give the boy a quick, "Hey, it's ok" and then move on. I think most boys feel it can happen to them or that it has happened to them.

 

JMO

 

YMMV

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

And what will happen as soon as that generation of kids enter the work force? What will they do when their boss calls them into the office to tell them they are screwing up? How will they act when they make the best decisions they can and they still end up costing the company millions of dollars? How will they do when a customer blows up at them without good reason.

 

We need level headed people who can keep their emotions in check when they are making hard decisions. Generally public places are not the right places with a few exceptions like funerals.

 

:iagree:

 

I was just reading a friend's FB posting. She said she went into bosses office and CRIED for 3 hours! I don't think she will get employee of the month anytime soon...

 

BTW, anger is an emotion. Is it okay to express that in the workplace/sports arena too?

[unsinkable]

Players (children) don't agrue with the upmire/ref, etc. Walk away, skate away.

 

That is the ideal. Kids fail at this, obviously.

 

A good coach (IMO) will listen to a player about a bad call and commiserate (or agree with the call) and help them move on. It's part of the process.

 

As kids get older, captains are taught how to approach a ref (in hockey and other sports) and have the call explained, etc.

[Murphy101]

I think there is a difference between

whining and crying and

"I'm overwhelmed" or sad crying and

"I'm hurt" crying.

 

I agree.

 

True, but I still preffered it when the saying and norm was "Boys do not cry."

 

...yes I know there were exceptions but they were far fewer than today.

 

I saw a grown man cry when his spouse died.

 

I think the sentiment pqr is expressing is that boys don't cry usually meant boys don't cry over piddling kid stuff.

 

I've never met a man of the men don't cry attitude who wouldn't cry for a fallen soldier, a wife, a child and many other reasons. The point isn't really that boys or men don't cry. It's that they don't cry over stuff that isn't truly worth crying about.

 

If that makes sense.:)

 

It is pretty obvious we disagree:D

 

Men and women have different strengths, that doesn't make either good or bad.

 

Before jumping off the corporate ladder, I had worked my way up to project management level and have not seen any indication that I was held back b/c I was a woman. In fact I figure that I probably had some help along the way b/c I was female. Not that I think that is the right reason to promote someone and pay them more, but I didn't turn it down. Yes there are some some men who have bad attitudes about women in the workplace, but from what I have seen that is an exception not a rule. I think we are each responsible for where we go in life. I don't blame where I am on other people being unjust.

 

From what I have seen, it is not not true that running any company large or small means that you value family less.

 

I 100% agree. The notion that women aren't advancing because they are female is a joke. If anything there are corporate incentives to highering a woman over a man.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Martha

[Snickerdoodle]

The point isn't really that boys or men don't cry. It's that they don't cry over stuff that isn't truly worth crying about.

 

Well, I guess all I meant was the fact that the boy was crying doesn't surprise me or phase me in the least especially given the (pre-pubescent or emerging pubescent) age.

 

The "suck it up" or "man up" attitude doesn't bother me *at all*. In fact, I think my own son got this speech/attitude after a small injury during sports this week.

[Gwenhwyfar]

The point isn't really that boys or men don't cry. It's that they don't cry over stuff that isn't truly worth crying about.

 

 

and who gets to decide if something is "worth" crying about?

 

reminds me of my folks when i was kid - the whole "quit your god d@mn bawling before i give you something to bawl about".

 

i still remember my father roaring that at us.

[Murphy101]

Well, I guess all I meant was the fact that the boy was crying doesn't surprise me or phase me in the least especially given the (pre-pubescent or emerging pubescent) age.

 

The "suck it up" or "man up" attitude doesn't bother me *at all*. In fact, I think my own son got this speech/attitude after a small injury during sports this week.

 

Oh we are on the same page then.

 

It doesn't bother me either. I think that is a huge misconception some are having. Just bc I nip something doesn't mean it surprises me or oases me either. I guess I just view it as yet another parenting thing I gotta do and I don't give it much thought beyond that. It's not like I'm screaming at them that they are being wimps or something. It's just a matter of fact, suck it up/man up and move on already. No drama necessary.

[Mejane]

To me, it's semantics. If the coach had said, "Buck up!" or "Cheer up!", it probably wouldn't bother anyone. Bursting into tears of frustration is one thing; weeping for an indeterminate amount of time is another. It's a coach's job to train kids as players and teach them sportsmanship.

 

I think what the coach did was fine. It would not anger me if someone said something like that to my son. I could always coddle him later on at home. ;)