A committed vs. a happy marriage.

[Tabrett]

My dh and I were having a conversation and he remarked that he thinks most of his friends have more "committed" marriages rather than "happy" marriages.

 

Curious what the hive thinks.

 

Do you think this is true?

 

Do you think people should say married out of commitment if happiness is gone?

 

How does one turn a committed marriage back into happy?

 

Or is that possible?

[Haiku]

Do you think people should say married out of commitment if happiness is gone?

 

Yes. Especially if the couple has children. I think that our society has become one where people expect all their whims to be fulfilled and where people think they deserve happiness all the time. I think that when people make a commitment to each other in marriage, the responsible and respectful thing to do is to honor that commitment even if that means all our instant desires aren't being met. I think it damages people to walk away from a marriage. Obviously, there are circumstances where divorce is the best option, but "we grew apart" or "I'm just not happy anymore" don't really qualify, in my opinion.

 

How does one turn a committed marriage back into happy?

 

I think we start by recognizing that our marriage partners can't give us everything in life, and we stop expecting that marriage is always going to be pleasant. I think that we continue by making sure that we find time to be with our partners in more stimulating and bond-building ways than sitting on the couch watching tv. Find a new hobby to share with your partner, travel together, find a way to engage with one another in new ways. Continue with finding things outside the marriage that feed parts of you that the marriage may not. Appreciate your partner for being with you, and try to be the type of partner that your spouse can appreciate.

 

 

Ftr, my husband and I are very happy, but I know several couples whose marriages were arranged, and I have talked to them about how marriages that are founded on things other than our western concept of love can turn out to be so happy and long-lived. What I have deduced is that it's a difference in expectations.

 

Tara

Edited November 7, 2009 by TaraTheLiberator
typo

[Jolash]

Marriage by it's very nature should be a commitment. Happiness comes and goes in the season of our lives, but a commitment; that takes a choice to stick it out, inspite of "happiness". Having been in a committed marriage for 17 years, we've had periods of happiness, not so happiness; we've been on the same page and in a different book altogether; we've been pleased with our choices and paid the price for some of them. But, underlying all the seasons, we made a commitment and that commitment has stayed consistent.

[Jann in TX]

DH and I are still married due to our commitment. Most of the past 25 years have been 'happy'--but we have definitely had our moments!

 

DH and I had to grow up together. We were BABIES when we got married at 19! Living paycheck to paycheck for 4 years as 'starving married college students' was a rough start. Year 3 was nearly the end of our marriage. Fortunately we waited to have children until we were more financially (and emotionally) stable...the birth of our first child really brought us together--since we had just moved 1500 miles from our closest family!

 

We have had different 'seasons' in our marriage--but our commitment has never wavered. We have been in a 'funk' most of the past year--and we are looking forward to a MUCH NEEDED vacation alone--only 3 more weeks to wait! We hope to use the time alone to work on the 'happiness' factor in our marriage--and that really depends on our friendship... a week without TV and kids should give us the time we need to re-connect.

[Faithr]

I think you can have both! But happiness in marriage is based on commitment, so you can't have happiness at all without that foundation. I know some people distinguish between happiness which is fleeting and joy which is steady. You can experience joy within the mundane or in the middle of adversity. I guess it is the counting your blessings approach to life.

 

We just celebrated our 21 wedding anniversary. We feel really blessed. I can honestly say we are both committed and happy!

[Joanne]

I'd change the wording.

 

I'd suggest that people should strive for a *healthy* marriage. This would, IMO, include healthy, productive aspects of commitment. It would also include the reality of seasons of life as individuals and a couple.

 

Healthy marriages can range in terms of happiness and functionality in the context of the relationship.

 

Focusing on happy OR commitment misses the mark.

[Tabrett]

I'd change the wording.

 

I'd suggest that people should strive for a *healthy* marriage. This would, IMO, include healthy, productive aspects of commitment. It would also include the reality of seasons of life as individuals and a couple.

 

Healthy marriages can range in terms of happiness and functionality in the context of the relationship.

 

Focusing on happy OR commitment misses the mark.

What do you say if a marriage is "committed" but "unhealthy"? Maybe that would be a better term than happiness. I think my husband see many of his friends in "unhealthy" but "committed" marriages.

 

The unhealthiness causes the unhappiness.

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I would consider true marital commitment to include a commitment to one another to continually be striving to nourish the relationship towards being good/healthy/happy, understanding that in some seasons, it's going to take more work than others.

 

I wouldn't think a 'commitment' to stay together and be passive about the marriage - just endure/make do/whatever - to be a commitment to the marriage. I have limited experience but in that experience it has appeared to me that if I am not building up my relationship with my husband I may as well be tearing it down. Decay through neglect is slow but the effects are just as real as active destruction.

[melmichigan]

We have had different 'seasons' in our marriage--but our commitment has never wavered.

 

Let's see we are at 16 years right now. Year 14 was really. really. rough. But our commitment to each other and the family we created got us through that year. Now, year 16 is probably one of our best years. ;) I think marriage is "work" like anything else. You need to be willing to work at a relationship to maintain a healthy one and to continue to be happy, it doesn't just happen for most people. I think that is one of the problems in this country today, to few are willing to work at a relationship anymore.

[Jean in Newcastle]

You should be committed to work through the unhealthiness, imo. Unless the unhealthiness equals abuse or perversion. Then get out!

[jelbe5]

My dh is my best friend. He truly is. We have had our moments, but we really are in love and are best friends. We have a son with autism and having a kid with special need will make or break a marriage in my humble opinion.

 

We have gone to counseling at points in our marriage. I am a social worker, so I had no problem with the idea of getting help when I felt we needed it. DH was a little skeptical, but now feels it was a great thing to do. As he is fond of saying, "It taught us to fight fair." I agree.

 

There have been times when I have felt unhappy with life in general, but not with my marriage. BUT it is work. And my dh agrees with that. I think if a couple can really work through some difficulties they will find that they will come out stronger, better and closer then they imagined. At least that was true for us. As our children grow older I find I feel closer and closer to my dh. We still are concerned about our special needs son, but it does not consume us. We know God will help us and him. Our faith has also helped us a great deal.

 

Just my 2cents.

 

Adrianne in IL

[Desert Rat]

I haven't read the other responses but I will say that my committed marriage has sustained us through the unhappy parts until we can regain the happy marriage we want. We've been married 15 years this week and have come to expect that we won't always like each other but, so far, we've always made it back to the happy place and I hope we always will.

[kalanamak]

Obviously, there are circumstances where divorce is the best option, but "we grew apart" or "I'm just not happy anymore" don't really qualify, in my opinion.

 

 

 

:iagree:I am happy in spite of my marriage, although I'm not pleased that while I get no reward from him, I am a hostage: if he "went bad" I could be made miserable, and stay in a situation I would have to steel myself against for my son's sake. However, since hubby is pushing 60 and I've known him for 9 years, I'm hoping he is who he appears to be and won't "go bad". He is getting deafer, which is a huge bummer.

 

Such is the human condition. Children do better with two parental figures. I don't doubt that. So I make do. I think I am too much of an oddball to easily find a "soul mate", and really care so little for romance, now that I'm older, I wouldn't waste any time looking for one. Plus, I think a "search" would put undo burden on the relationship.

 

One of the biggest pleasures of being "mature" is that if you don't have a backache, don't get shouted at or threatened at work, don't get rearended on the highway on the way home, don't have a roof leak, no one is sick, and you get enough to eat and enough sleep, I think the day is just ecstatically wonderful. Oh, and a house big enough that hubby and his chainsaw snore are at the far end. :)

 

A couple of decades ago my ex and I stopped by for a family dinner with my very first love (he didn't love me back). He was "the mature one" of my social group, and of the personality and social background my mother would have thought perfect for me. He'd married a nice woman, had three glowingly healthy children who were polite and bright. He had a little house in Maryland and had grown into the exact situation I expected him to, but not with me. If I turn my retro-specto-scope on the situation, I could have had him if I'd been quieter, more docile, less risk-taking, more conventional, but I'd have been where I am now (although with more children and grandchildren now, not a youngster): living with a kind man who knows nothing of my heart and soul.

 

Would I be better off trading my (very rewarding) career for more children? Who knows. I do know that my professional life has been dependable and consistently rewarding, while deep in my heart I feel current social standards make marriage much more risky than it was in times past. When I was growing up there was ONE child in the whole school whose parents were divorced. ONE! The whole idea of depending on a man seemed incredibly shaky, and my instinct was to provide for myself, emotionally as well as financially. And when, in my 30's, I did succumb to what I considered a "love match", he got bored and walked out very handily. I "hoped" but what I feared all along happened anyway, despite a mature age, financial security and years and years trying to be the best wife I could be. O tempora, o mores.

[Liberty]

...my best friend has just decided to leave her dh. They have 2 kids (12 and 8). She says she doesn't feel like she loves him anymore. He's overweight and in her words "I never pictured myself being with someone that isn't fit." The reasons she has are so extremely superficial. He snores. She doesn't feel attracted to him anymore. He doesn't do things around the house. He works, but then comes home and sits in front of the TV. IMHO, I think he's afraid to do anything as she's a real nag. If things aren't done to her specifications, she treats him like the scum of the Earth. She gives him an allowance and then blows their pittance of an income on ridiculous things like new iphones for her and her daughter, rather than pay the mortgage pymt (which they're behind on). I try talking to her, but she's very stubborn. The worse thing is her dh doesn't realize she's about to up and kick him out of the house (yes, she plans on keeping the house). Also, she feels she could get government help (insurance for the kids which they don't have as well as college for her) if she's a single mom. The one thing this man does excel at is being a dad. He's a fantastic father to their kids. They adore him. When I try to point out the pain she's going to cause them, she says their pain will be worse by living in a home of a loveless marriage. I'm sorry, but that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What kid would rather see their parents divorced? Has anyone here wished their parents had gotten divorced rather than stick it out?

[i.love.lucy]

I've been married 21 years. We spent a lot of time together our first years building our friendship and companionship so that by the time we had kids we were ready to give some of that up to focus on our kids and a new season. I think we understand that we are committed to each other for the rest of our lives, so we had better work at making it happy. For us, the commitment came first, the happiness follows because what other choice is there: to be miserable for the rest of your life? All that to say, I have never suffered abuse, neglect, indifference, or adultery from my husband, so I can not say that I wouldn't feel differently in those circumstances. But it seems that's not really what we're talking about here.

 

I also find that the unhappier I am with myself, the unhappier I am with my husband and marriage. When I focus on making me a little happier (not meaning in a selfish way) then I am a better wife and mother. I am dieting and that makes me feel better about myself. I am trying to get more sleep. I am reading and learning more. I am focusing on a few good friendships that feed my soul. All of this makes me a better person to be around, and consequently a more interesting person to my husband.

 

I does take work.

[ekarl2]

Yes. Especially if the couple has children. I think that our society has become one where people expect all their whims to be fulfilled and where people think they deserve happiness all the time. I think that when people make a commitment to each other in marriage, the responsible and respectful thing to do is to honor that commitment even if that means all our instant desires aren't being met. I think it damages people to walk away from a marriage. Obviously, there are circumstances where divorce is the best option, but "we grew apart" or "I'm just not happy anymore" don't really qualify, in my opinion.

 

 

 

I think we start by recognizing that our marriage partners can't give us everything in life, and we stop expecting that marriage is always going to be pleasant. I think that we continue by making sure that we find time to be with our partners in more stimulating and bond-building ways than sitting on the couch watching tv. Find a new hobby to share with your partner, travel together, find a way to engage with one another in new ways. Continue with finding things outside the marriage that feed parts of you that the marriage may not. Appreciate your partner for being with you, and try to be the type of partner that your spouse can appreciate.

 

 

Ftr, my husband and I are very happy, but I know several couples whose marriages were arranged, and I have talked to them about how marriages that are founded on things other than our western concept of love can turn out to be so happy and long-lived. What I have deduced is that it's a difference in expectations.

 

Tara

 

:iagree:BEAUTIFULLY said, Tara.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Yes. Especially if the couple has children. I think that our society has become one where people expect all their whims to be fulfilled and where people think they deserve happiness all the time. I think that when people make a commitment to each other in marriage, the responsible and respectful thing to do is to honor that commitment even if that means all our instant desires aren't being met. I think it damages people to walk away from a marriage. Obviously, there are circumstances where divorce is the best option, but "we grew apart" or "I'm just not happy anymore" don't really qualify, in my opinion.

 

 

 

I think we start by recognizing that our marriage partners can't give us everything in life, and we stop expecting that marriage is always going to be pleasant. I think that we continue by making sure that we find time to be with our partners in more stimulating and bond-building ways than sitting on the couch watching tv. Find a new hobby to share with your partner, travel together, find a way to engage with one another in new ways. Continue with finding things outside the marriage that feed parts of you that the marriage may not. Appreciate your partner for being with you, and try to be the type of partner that your spouse can appreciate.

 

 

Tara

:iagree::iagree: I tend to believe that many bail out of marriage too easily IMHO.

[Kate in Arabia]

 

I think we start by recognizing that our marriage partners can't give us everything in life, and we stop expecting that marriage is always going to be pleasant.

I also try not to hide the realities of married life from my kids. I can distinctly remember moments when I was young when my mother or father was unhappy, but I saw them work through it and they are closing in on their 50th wedding anniversary. I have some friends who say you should never let your kids see any disharmony between you and your spouse, but I think it's healthier for them to see the reality -- that sometimes there is unhappiness but that doesn't mean you immediately give up.

[Joanne]

What do you say if a marriage is "committed" but "unhealthy"? Maybe that would be a better term than happiness. I think my husband see many of his friends in "unhealthy" but "committed" marriages.

 

The unhealthiness causes the unhappiness.

 

Committed in and of itself says nothing about the health of a marriage. A healthy marriage needs to be committed, so it is a given component of a healthy marriage. However, committed does not imply health and, in an unhealthy dynamic, can be a detriment.

 

I agree with "happy" as being fleeting, superficial and not that point. I also agree that entering into or leaving a relationship over superficial reasons is destructive to everyone; especially children. I just don't agree that it happens at the numbers I see references in these kind of threads. What I *do* see is that people don't usually share the reality of their marriages, their divorce, their pain with a wide circle at all. Misery in marriage is often very hidden.

[Perry]

What kid would rather see their parents divorced? Has anyone here wished their parents had gotten divorced rather than stick it out?

Me. They eventually did divorce, but only after many years of dysfunctional hell. I would much rather they had divorced and got it over with sooner.

 

I do believe that many people have unrealistic expectations, aren't willing to put enough effort into keeping their marriage healthy, and bail too quickly.

[rafiki]

.

[joannqn]

My dh and I were having a conversation and he remarked that he thinks most of his friends have more "committed" marriages rather than "happy" marriages.

 

Curious what the hive thinks.

 

Do you think this is true?

 

Do you think people should say married out of commitment if happiness is gone?

 

How does one turn a committed marriage back into happy?

 

Or is that possible?

 

Yes, I do think people need to stay married out of commitment, especially when children are involved. Studies have shown that children do better in two parent homes even when the parents aren't happily married, as long as there isn't violence and regular loud arguing. I stayed in my marriage for that reason.

 

Six years later (we nearly divorced in 2003), are marriage is getting better and better. Right now, it is the best it has ever been. It is possible, but it takes patience and work.

[Joanne]

 

I don't know your friend. I do know that assumptions about the best for kids kids can not be made as generalizations in either direction.

 

The stupidest think you've ever heard? I've heard a lot of stupid, very stupid, things. "Loveless marriage" is pretty vague.

 

(In general) Be careful evaluating the validity of another's divorce or marriage pain. Even when you think you "know" and are close to it, your evaluation could be very inaccurate and your knowledge of the situation incomplete.

 

Support *health* in relationships, encourage *health* if the relationship is changing, suggest books, classes, people and settings to help the kids. Remember that parents in a marriage considering divorce need love, care, nurture and support in order to be the best parents they can no matter what direction that relationship ultimately goes.

 

Personally, neither me nor my children were helped by those who were of the "divorce is not an option" mentality, who evaluated my marriage and divorced based on their limited knowledge, who were critical, who suggested counseling (I had been myself, he wasn't interested until the final event and my finally ending it), by reminders about kids of divorce, by terms such as "broken homes".

 

Divorce is devasting for the adults and children. We are rarely in need of more care and grace, and as I have seen and experienced, offered the least.

[Melinda in VT]

I don't trust my outsider's view of anyone else's marriage.

 

Personally, I am committed to my marriage, but I judge the success of my marriage not by whether we are together but by whether or not we are happy. If one of us is unhappy, we both have work to do.

 

I've been fortunate to have a spouse who makes a happy marriage a relatively easy goal for me.

[sbgrace]

Statistically leaving an unhappy marriage doesn't make people happier. That even includes those who divorce and remarry. They are just as unhappy five years later. And in fact I think many who stick out unhappiness at points will find themselves in a happier marriage in time. That's been true for us. I believe sticking with the commitment gives the best chance for eventual happiness of both people at least generally speaking.

 

Interesting research on this stuff:

Conducted by a team of leading family scholars headed by University of Chicago sociologist Linda Waite, the study found no evidence that unhappily married adults who divorced were typically any happier than unhappily married people who stayed married. Even more dramatically, the researchers also found that two-thirds of unhappily married spouses who stayed married reported that their marriages were happy five years later. In addition, the most unhappy marriages reported the most dramatic turnarounds:

http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/edi/edi_03divorcemarriage.html

 

The article also goes into what turned around personal happiness give years later in some of those most unhappy marriages.

Edited November 7, 2009 by sbgrace

[Caitilin]

Me. They eventually did divorce, but only after many years of dysfunctional hell. I would much rather they had divorced and got it over with sooner.

 

I do believe that many people have unrealistic expectations, aren't willing to put enough effort into keeping their marriage healthy, and bail too quickly.

 

:iagree::iagree: You described my childhood. And I agree with expectations being unreasonable too. Too much "me" and not enough "we."

[smrtmama]

I'd change the wording.

 

I'd suggest that people should strive for a *healthy* marriage. This would, IMO, include healthy, productive aspects of commitment. It would also include the reality of seasons of life as individuals and a couple.

 

Healthy marriages can range in terms of happiness and functionality in the context of the relationship.

 

Focusing on happy OR commitment misses the mark.

 

This!

[DawnM]

Our former pastor's wife used to say that the only people who are happy, happy, happy all the time are on the 7th floor of the psych ward! :lol:

 

Happiness is something we are somehow taught to belive should be a priority. I hear so many times, "I just want him to be happy," or, "As long as it makes you happy."

 

Well, chocolate cake makes me happy.....until I get on the scale a few days later!

 

Dawn

[momtoboys]

Okay I didn't read all the responses.

 

All marriages that last for any length of time are based on some degree of commitment. The most healthy marriages will have better and worse times. . it's just a fact.

 

I think that movies/books, etc do a disservice by portraying marriage as all continual romance, with exciting feelings, etc. . Which is untrue. True love is something you have to work at, and it comes in unexpected moments.

But if you're wanting a Hollywood style "happily ever after" marriage, it isn't going to happen.

 

DH & I have a marriage of love and commitment. Sometimes there are really strong "loving" moments. . other times it's more the commitment kicking in (LOL). But we wouldn't trade it for the world. It's also great for our kids to see mom and dad sticking w/ each other through good times and bad.

 

I do think that I would definitely recommend that you never keep secrets from each other in your marriage. Even if it's something little like you spent extra $$ on something and didn't tell your husband. (Just some words of wisdom.)

 

If you're struggling, seek counseling. If you are constantly fighting, you probably have other issues to work through, and it isn't healthy or happy for your children (or you!).

 

If you are in an abusive relationship or there is adultery taking place, etc. . then obviously that is an entirely different situation.

[Wildiris]

I am not sure if a person can maintain a relationship without being happy in that relationship. While a person can feel committed to the idea of marriage, I think if a person is unhappy they may try to find happiness someplace else--work, affairs, sports, etc.

 

To remain committed too a person, ones partner, ones spouse, one children, ones parents takes fortitude. None of these relationships are always happy, and should they be source of ones happiness? Does happiness come from the relationship or does it come from within? Does a happier person forge better relationships? When the going gets rough should we jump ship and sail for sunny shores?

 

How does one turn a committed marriage back into happy?

 

This is one tough question without a simple, general response like the kind you might find in a woman's magazine. I think the answer would depend on if there are two willing partners.

[Heather in WI]

What kid would rather see their parents divorced?

 

I wish my parents hadn't gotten divorced when I was 2. I think my mom got mad one day and kicked him out. I don't think it was a well thought out plan ... I think it was a hasty, immature response. (She was 21.) She moved 1500+ miles away from him and he wasn't a part of my life until I was 16. My dad never got over it. 30 years later, he still was pining for her.

 

I do think too many people today are obsessed with the notion of selfish happiness. Barring actual abuse, I think marriage is a commitment. I think of my great-grandparents on all sides who barely knew their spouses before the wedding day, yet were married for 50+ years.

[kiana]

Me. They eventually did divorce, but only after many years of dysfunctional hell. I would much rather they had divorced and got it over with sooner.

 

I do believe that many people have unrealistic expectations, aren't willing to put enough effort into keeping their marriage healthy, and bail too quickly.

 

:iagree:

 

My parents had a dysfunctional relationship (that was visible to us) for at least 10 years before their divorce. I wish they'd divorced sooner rather than later.

 

Yet, I also agree with the second half.

[Audrey]

Our former pastor's wife used to say that the only people who are happy, happy, happy all the time are on the 7th floor of the psych ward! :lol:

 

Happiness is something we are somehow taught to belive should be a priority. I hear so many times, "I just want him to be happy," or, "As long as it makes you happy."

 

Well, chocolate cake makes me happy.....until I get on the scale a few days later!

 

Dawn

 

 

LOL!

 

I do think, though, that happiness is a choice we make. We can choose to be happy. The first step is to define what is "happy." Then take steps to recognizing that in our lives, and embracing it instead of giving in to negativity.

 

You see... I would eat the chocolate cake and be happy. I would ignore the momentary scale fluctuation, but, I wouldn't go eating that cake every day, either. ;)

[Barb_]

:iagree:

 

My parents had a dysfunctional relationship (that was visible to us) for at least 10 years before their divorce. I wish they'd divorced sooner rather than later.

 

Yet, I also agree with the second half.

 

Chiming in to say :iagree: on both counts.

 

As a child I used to pray they'd divorce and as a teen and during my 20's I used to try to talk my mom into leaving my dad. My parents stayed married because my mom was willing to stuff down who she was and didn't have the self confidence to stand up to my dad or to leave him. In the past 10 years, they've come a long, long way but my brother and I were (and in some ways still are) pretty messed up because of their toxic relationship and my dad's bullying. In some ways, emotional abuse it tougher to deal with because it leaves no obvious marks. I've forgiven him and we have a strong relationship now, but we would have all been much healthier if they had ended their toxic relationship 30 or more years ago.

 

Barb

[angelmorris]

I think that too many people give up too easily. I truly believe it is unreasonable to expect to spend 50+ years with someone and never feel unhappy. The secret to a happy marriage IS commitment. You work through the hard times to enjoy the happy times.

[Faithr]

Aren't the marriage vows 'for better or for worse'? I think no one has an ecstatically happy marriage all the time! No one has a happy life all the time even if you are single! It doesn't exist!!!! You can go through phases where life isn't so satisfying, there's lots of stress or sorrow, spouses behave badly sometimes in such situations. It takes a lot of patience, humility, forgiveness and persistence to be in a committed relationship. My mom was married to my dad for 51 years. For twenty of those, he was drinking really badly. I am so glad she never gave up on him because even though it took a long time, the problem was worked through and we all weathered the very long storm. Never say never! And my mother in law used to joke that if she and my fil could stay married, anybody could stay married. My dh has memories of them really struggling and going to counseling and such. But they stuck together and they were so in love until my poor mil passed away.

 

I feel so fortunate that both my parents and my in laws were so committed to their marriages even though they went through dark times when they were personally very unhappy. In the end loyalty and forgiveness pay off. In my mind there are two really admirable couples I have been blessed to know.

[Rosie_0801]

...my best friend has just decided to leave her dh. They have 2 kids (12 and 8). She says she doesn't feel like she loves him anymore. He's overweight and in her words "I never pictured myself being with someone that isn't fit." The reasons she has are so extremely superficial.

You may think those reasons are superficial, but they are real. I nearly left my dh for similar reasons, actually. I wouldn't have been leaving him because he wears ugly tracksuit pants, I'd have been leaving because I couldn't find him attractive. That is not a superficial reason. Staying locked into a relationship for the next 30 years with someone you have little respect for and find unattractive is soul sapping. Attraction is not an unconditional state, no matter how much we might think it should be. You could look at it the other way, does the husband care so little for his wife's feelings that he won't make any effort to be attractive? I understand what you've said about her nagging him to death. I understand that constant nitpicking is going to turn a bloke into a passive aggressive lump, and I also understand that that will make a woman nag even more! It is a vicious cycle and hard to break, but he is an adult capable of doing something about it, though it sounds too late now.

 

The one thing this man does excel at is being a dad. He's a fantastic father to their kids. They adore him.

That needn't change.

 

When I try to point out the pain she's going to cause them, she says their pain will be worse by living in a home of a loveless marriage. I'm sorry, but that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

It depends on the kids. Some would rather their parents stay together however miserable they are, others would rather they split and got on with their lives. Which view they take is a matter of maturity, I think. It can take people a long time to really understand that parents are people too and do not exist soley to cater to their children. And this is coming from someone who's mother has moved to the other side of the country with a bloke she met online, who none of us like.

 

Has anyone here wished their parents had gotten divorced rather than stick it out?

I believe "Ha! Finally!" were the words I used.

 

As to committed v happy, I think there is a difference between vaguely discontented and being desperately miserable. In the first case, one can work through it. The committment should carry you through that rough patch. In the latter case, it might not be. How does someone stay committed to a someone when the situations seems irreversibly unhappy? How long should such people stay together? I know a fella who's suffering greatly at the moment due to his parent's divorce, and he's 40. Do you stay together for the sake of your 40 year old children?

 

Rosie

[OnTheBrink]

I've not read the other responses, so if I'm repeating someone, well, here it is again. :lol:

 

As far as marriage goes, yes, I think far too many people use unhappiness as an excuse for divorce. IMO, that is the ultimate in selfish excuses to not honor a commitment. I'm talking about the unhappiness that gets discussed when a bunch of bored women get together and start whining about their husbands, how he's not romantic enough, doesn't do enough for her, the conversation evolves into her friends telling her she deserves more and better and should dump the man to find what she truly deserves. Selfish, selfish, selfish.

 

If you're (general you, not aiming this at anyone at all) unhappy, then chances are you're the problem, not him (and vice versa). I'm not talking about a spouse who's beating the snot out of you and the kids, or one who's become perverted. I mean the every day stuff. Lack of romance isn't a problem, it's a symptom of a problem. Lack of daily courtesies and acts of kindness aren't problems, they're symptoms of problems, and usually the heart of the problem is selfishness on one or both parts.

 

Sorry to be on soap box, but I attended a conference a few weeks ago on marriage and what the speaker said really resonated with me. And, what he said could also be applied to life in general, not just marriage.

 

I've been examining myself when I feel unhappy, or angry, or hurt and what I've found is, the common thread through all my negative feelings is selfishness.

 

I think I've gotten off topic. What was the question again? LOL

[nono]

LOL!

 

I do think, though, that happiness is a choice we make. We can choose to be happy. The first step is to define what is "happy." Then take steps to recognizing that in our lives, and embracing it instead of giving in to negativity.

 

 

 

Amen. And talk to each other. Not your girlfriends. Not him with his buddies. Talk. No subject taboo. Have no fear. Listen without panic. Then figure out how to give each other what you need within the context of the marriage. Realize you two are not static. And it'll still be hard sometimes.

[Faithr]

In response to Rosie, I would say that I really disagree about the attraction thing! What if the spouse developed some disfiguring disease? What if he goes bald and she really isn't attracted to bald men or what if he gets really bad eczema or something? Attractiveness while a good thing is definitely not something that everybody can have at all or all during one's lifetime. I would think she'd be a better wife if her husband's weight worried her because she wanted him to be healthy not because she finds him unattractive! Like I said, we make the marriage vow for better or for worse. . . .

 

And the vaguely discontent thing isn't right either. For ex. my mother was not vaguely discontented while my father got drunk every night for 20 years! But since she was committed to him and loved him, she put up with terrible things and saw him through to a better time when he was not drinking and in fact he wound up nursing her during the last 10 years of her life when her health failed her slowly. (and going from the beautiful woman she was to a sickly skeleton of her former self.) I am so glad he didn't decide that she wasn't attractive to him anymore and he wasn't going to waste ten years his life taking care of her! Because you know that can be so soul sucking! Actually it was the opposite of soul sucking because it meant he had to live for another selflessly and selflessness does wonders for soul building!

 

I agree SolaMichella. More times than not we choose to be unhappy and we just better get over ourselves and stick to the vows we have made!

[Joanne]

What if the spouse developed some disfiguring disease? What if he goes bald and she really isn't attracted to bald men or what if he gets really bad eczema or something?

 

My DH has severe psoriasis. It's not pretty. Indeed, it can get totally gross. I still love, adore him and think he's HOT. ;)

 

That is completely different than chronic under-care about health, hygiene, and fitness issues. Weight is a complex, difficult subject. I think the difference Rosie speaks of (not that I presume to speak for her!) is respect for self and intimate others.

[kalanamak]

I am so glad he didn't decide that she wasn't attractive to him anymore and he wasn't going to waste ten years his life taking care of her!

 

It is much easier to forgo erotic thrills after 20 years of marriage (and drinking, which can give testicular atrophy) than when you are young. If someone is 22 and thinks that is the end of their erotic life, it is a pretty bitter pill for some to swallow. It is easy to judge based on one's own libido, but these vary widely in the human race, and unless you have battled a very strong one, it is hard to understand. I have had patients break down and weep and beg "for a pill" to kill their libido because once they were married, the husband rolled over and fell asleep and they couldn't sleep they were so gnawed by desire.

 

What was the line about extra-m affairs in France, from that book about the relative trauma/price of divorce in different cultures: try not to have one, but if you have to, everyone should be politely quiet about it.

[Rosie_0801]

In response to Rosie, I would say that I really disagree about the attraction thing! What if the spouse developed some disfiguring disease? What if he goes bald and she really isn't attracted to bald men or what if he gets really bad eczema or something?

My dh is a deaf epileptic and I like him quite well, even though they aren't great things to have. :) I can tell you there is a big difference between a condition that happens because it happens, and a condition that happens due to laziness. My emotional reaction to dh's seizures varies hugely. If he's been taking his drugs and fits anyway, I'm all sympathy. If he fits because he hasn't been taking his drugs, I am not sympathetic, I am angry and hurt. Another example? A guy with a huge belly is not a good look. That was causing some pretty big problems in our marriage, for a few reasons. However, once dh started eating healthier, it suddenly wasn't a problem any more. I still don't think big bellies look nice, but now I'm happy because I feel that he cares about his health, my feelings and by extention our relationship.

Does that clarify what I meant?

 

 

I agree SolaMichella. More times than not we choose to be unhappy and we just better get over ourselves and stick to the vows we have made!

I don't know about "getting over ourselves" but if that means you think people ought to take some responsibility and work on issues instead of lounging around whinging, then right on!

 

Rosie

[Kari C in SC]

Let's see we are at 16 years right now. Year 14 was really. really. rough. But our commitment to each other and the family we created got us through that year. Now, year 16 is probably one of our best years. ;) I think marriage is "work" like anything else. You need to be willing to work at a relationship to maintain a healthy one and to continue to be happy, it doesn't just happen for most people. I think that is one of the problems in this country today, to few are willing to work at a relationship anymore.

 

:iagree:

My dh and I are in our 20th year of marriage (24th together)... we have gone through "those" times where we were married because of commitment. We still LOVED each other, but we sure didn't like each other a whole heck of a lot. We stuck together because we had made a commitment to be a family. We worked hard to get back to happy. Sometimes we are blissfully happy and sometimes - not so much. I don't expect it all the time. One thing we both really did realize back around year 10 was that we needed ALONE time. We need a weekend or a week away each year for just us. Once we built that in to our lives, we found that we could always reconnect even during "those" times.

[Scuff]

I think most relationships will have periods of closeness and distance, "in love" and not so much. Of course you stay committed, otherwie it wasn't much of a commitment, was it? You can't get back to the really happy part if you drop the relationship.

[TravelingChris]

We will be married 25 years in 2010 and dh is thinking about what kind of great vacation we will have. That is the commitment since neither of us is happy right now. No, it isn't that we are unhappy per se with each other though we are more likely to get irritated. He is overworked and always gone. I am overworked by his going away and by my children who have chronic conditions and in pain from my not adequately treated arthritis. We both realize that our lot in life is not too great right now and we plan for breaks from the hassles. Our happiness will return. Get me to a beautiful garden or conservatory. Get him to have some time for his hobbies. We plan really great vacations where we can be happy. Does that mean we aren't happy otherwise? No, in periods when he isn't traveling (which he isn't liking) and the kids are relatively healthy and we get to have normal family times it comes back. But the commitment we have to the marriage is not one that is dependent on happiness. Now if my husband one day changed his personality and turned into a different person (and this did happen to a friend of mine and he was referred to neurologists, etc), would I still be committed? I can't say- it would depend how it would change. In her case, he lost the commitment (along with lots of other major personality changes).

 

I don't advocate staying together with abuse or betrayal but I think too many people leave too quickly. I am very scientific in my thinking and I know the statistics. I think that knowledge helped me during some rougher periods.

[Peela]

I dont think most people are happy anyway. Nothing to do with marriage, but the marriage tends to cop the blame- its an easy scapegoat. I know because I have done it myself- when I am not feeling happy, my dh seems like the completely wrong man for me and a jerk to boot :) When I am happy, he is pretty cool and a devoted husband and I adore him (but then again, when I am happy, he's a part of my life, and an important part, but not the centre because my happiness is clearly not dependent on him).

 

However, there are infinite variations and I am not into creating rules for everyone. Sure, many marriages split up when some deeper understanding of the ebbs and flows of long term relationships would help, as well as understanding how real (as in unconditional) love and friendship work. We are all wounded and tend to expect our partners to parent us and fill us up.

I think we (as a society) tend to put too much pressure and expectations on marriage to bring us happiness, rather than standing on our own two feet and being responsible for ourselves.

But I do think couples who are clearly unhappy together should be allowed to separate without stigma, even if they have children. But its not so simple as committment versus happiness, because people don't really understand either.

I believe committment should be toward living in your own integrity, in your highest truth- committment should be to one's own deepest values- not ultimately to another person. That may lead one to leave a relationship that is damaging to oneself or one's children- wheras committment for its own sake, to marriage, can be unhealthy for everyone. Of course in general a committment to marriage is a good thing- but not at any cost. Inability to commit is also a problem.

On the other hand, happiness is also an ephemeral thing- does one mean the happiness of smiling a lot at parties and getting what you want, or the deep fulfillment of learning to navigate the sometimes difficult waters of life and staying true to oneself in the process?

 

Its a complex issue. I think the most important thing is that both partners keep growing - together and independently- and dont just compromise their lives away. I like the concept of two partners being like two pillars holding up a building- rather than leaning on each other too much, even though of course they are interdependent. Marriage should support and encourage each person's independence and highest values, as well as provide shelter and support. Its easy to get caught in the material aspects of life, and get so busy we can forget our deepest convictions, or what our life's passions were before we got so busy with children and mortgages. I think if we give those up altogether, we will be unhappy, whether we are married or not, but it wont help make a happy marriage.

[neveryoumindthere]

sorry double post

Edited November 8, 2009 by neveryoumindthere

[JeneralMom]

What kid would rather see their parents divorced? Has anyone here wished their parents had gotten divorced rather than stick it out?

 

Me.

 

I grew up in a house where my parents were unhappy, we were unhappy, but we put on a pretty face for the world. I could never understand why my parents were together, and my brother and I wished they were not so that at least we could stop living in the brutal, polite, icy world that we inhabited. Honestly, no one should stay together just for the children...it makes them miserable and hence makes the children miserable. What child wants to know that they are the cause of their parents unhappiness? I have deep issues knowing that my dad sacrificed the true love of his life and his happiness for years just to stay in the home so my bro and I could have a whole family. I would much rather have had him be a happy man than a miserable schmuck who resented us.

 

Bitter, yes I am.

[neveryoumindthere]

:iagree::iagree: You described my childhood. And I agree with expectations being unreasonable too. Too much "me" and not enough "we."

 

Chiming in to say :iagree: on both counts.

 

As a child I used to pray they'd divorce and as a teen and during my 20's I used to try to talk my mom into leaving my dad. My parents stayed married because my mom was willing to stuff down who she was and didn't have the self confidence to stand up to my dad or to leave him. In the past 10 years, they've come a long, long way but my brother and I were (and in some ways still are) pretty messed up because of their toxic relationship and my dad's bullying. In some ways, emotional abuse it tougher to deal with because it leaves no obvious marks. I've forgiven him and we have a strong relationship now, but we would have all been much healthier if they had ended their toxic relationship 30 or more years ago.

 

Barb

 

:iagree:

My four siblings and I were 10 yrs old and even younger and would literally BEG my mom to get divorced. We were (and still are) pretty messed up emotionally with very deep rooted 'issues' from their relationship. The tension was unbearable and we used to call our house "The House of Repression" :(

 

It's 30 years later and the subject about divorce is coming up again and it's like please for the sake of your sanity do *something*, eitehr change or leave, don't do the same things you've been doing expecting a different result. UGH. Dysfunctional doesn't even BEGIN to describe my family.

 

 

I dont think most people are happy anyway. Nothing to do with marriage, but the marriage tends to cop the blame- its an easy scapegoat. I know because I have done it myself- when I am not feeling happy, my dh seems like the completely wrong man for me and a jerk to boot :) When I am happy, he is pretty cool and a devoted husband and I adore him (but then again, when I am happy, he's a part of my life, and an important part, but not the centre because my happiness is clearly not dependent on him).

 

However, there are infinite variations and I am not into creating rules for everyone. Sure, many marriages split up when some deeper understanding of the ebbs and flows of long term relationships would help, as well as understanding how real (as in unconditional) love and friendship work. We are all wounded and tend to expect our partners to parent us and fill us up.

I think we (as a society) tend to put too much pressure and expectations on marriage to bring us happiness, rather than standing on our own two feet and being responsible for ourselves.

 

But I do think couples who are clearly unhappy together should be allowed to separate without stigma, even if they have children. But its not so simple as committment versus happiness, because people don't really understand either.

 

I believe committment should be toward living in your own integrity, in your highest truth- committment should be to one's own deepest values- not ultimately to another person. That may lead one to leave a relationship that is damaging to oneself or one's children- wheras committment for its own sake, to marriage, can be unhealthy for everyone. Of course in general a committment to marriage is a good thing- but not at any cost. Inability to commit is also a problem.

On the other hand, happiness is also an ephemeral thing- does one mean the happiness of smiling a lot at parties and getting what you want, or the deep fulfillment of learning to navigate the sometimes difficult waters of life and staying true to oneself in the process?

 

Its a complex issue. I think the most important thing is that both partners keep growing - together and independently- and dont just compromise their lives away. I like the concept of two partners being like two pillars holding up a building- rather than leaning on each other too much, even though of course they are interdependent. Marriage should support and encourage each person's independence and highest values, as well as provide shelter and support. Its easy to get caught in the material aspects of life, and get so busy we can forget our deepest convictions, or what our life's passions were before we got so busy with children and mortgages. I think if we give those up altogether, we will be unhappy, whether we are married or not, but it wont help make a happy marriage.

As for this post, can I just tell you how awesome you are?! thank you thank you thank you! It's like a prayer has been answered, really. It REALLY resonated with me and I appreciate it greatly. Thank you sooo much.

Edited November 8, 2009 by neveryoumindthere