A "friend's friend" attacks homeschooling on facebook

[Macrina]

Really I am just irate with the comment. It's below:

 

Mother posts:

Any words of wisdom from you homeschoolers out there? Tomorrow's my first jaunt into this arena, with my daughter, who's a 7th grader. Just hoping I won't be a flop of a teacher--or worse--a flop of a mother!

 

and one of her "friends" says:

Most people wouldn't fill one of their own teeth, build an addition to a house, represent themselves in court, repair their own car, but when it comes to educating a child which is infinitely more complex than any of these, parents always assume they have the necessary expertise. Even to raise a vegetable garden, one needs the right tools, education, and years to experiment with plenty of failures along the way.

 

and then someone else challenges him and he replies:

I'm a teacher and a parent, they're different skills. When one of my dogs is sick I take it to the vet. When one of my children needs help, I get the best I can find for them. The last thing I want to do is experiment on my own child. I know <mother> as a bright and loving parent, supremely competent, but <daughter> is on the edge of genius. She needs constant stretching and intellectual challenges to nurture her gifts. Hey, this is an opinion. I'm not trying to impugn the royal society of homeschoolers, but as a teacher I spend every waking moment trying to think of ways to get the exceptional ones to reach a little higher and look a little deeper, it's not a part-time pursuit. Teaching is a calling. I'm not in favor of dilettantism. I know it's the fashion, but it's a bad fashion, and the victims are the kids. Part of helping your child to grow up is letting go. This is free advice, given in love, and worth exactly what you paid for it.

 

:cursing:

 

This poor mother! How could she have such a "friend"? And I am so spitting mad I have to post about it here because I am above facebook arguing. I did post my encouraging words to her and sent her a good link privately, but I did not take on the tyrant. So will you all just post about how many different levels he is so wrong and make me feel better? How can anyone be so naive?

[clarkacademy]

While I know that homeschooling is not for everyone if I ever had a so called friend talk to me that way I would have a few great words back. Ok maybe not great words but quite a few!!!

[jg_puppy]

I don't know what to say.

 

I had a similar experience with Facebook recently. A friend posted a homeschooling article. One of her other friends posted that she doesn't agree with home schooling, but it is a parent's right to ruin her child's education. It took a lot of will power not to post something.

 

Jan

[Earth Angel_79]

If my head wasn't so souped up with sinuses right now....I'd have a few choice words. Maybe she could come back with all those awesome test scores the brilliant students in the College of Education always seem to have at university. Sorry....there I go painting the whole teaching profession one color...

[Pamela H in Texas]

It is fine, imo, for this friend to hold this opinion. I don't even think she's completely wrong. The issue, as I see it, is that a friend can hold a different opinion without bashing her with it, especially publicly. At this point, with homeschooling starting, the appropriate response changes to, "I wish you and your daughter a successful school year" possibly including, "if I could can be of any assistence, just ring."

[Earth Angel_79]

Completely off topic...Macrina are you by any chance on TBW too?

[Sputterduck]

As for the first reply "Most people wouldn't fill one of their own teeth, build an addition to a house, represent themselves in court, repair their own car" ... the funny thing is, I have a good friend who has built additions to his own house, represents himself in court (like 12 times now for business related law suits and he's won every time), and repairs his own car. He does all those better than the "experts".

 

Regarding the second reply that poor mother got, I have never seen a school that provides "constant stretching and intellectual challenges to nurture her gifts". That's one of the best things about homeschooling. You can actually give your kid that. They can't really get that in school where there is one teacher for 30+ kids.

Edited September 1, 2009 by Sputterduck

[DarlaS]

Well, I just took my 15 yo to the CC for placement testing today. He scored 97/100 on both reading skills and English. He also placed into his choice of three math classes (Trig/Precalc or Discrete Mathematics). If in PS he would have three years left. I think I'll keep "experimenting" with the younger 3. I hope I can similarly "ruin" them.

[Orthodox6]

I don't "do" social networks, and this provides yet another reason to avoid them, frankly.

 

I would advise the page "owner" to ban the [tremendously] offensive individual permanently. If that can't be done by herself, then contact the "management" (if any exist) for help in barring that person from ever posting again on this page owner's space.

[mom2denj]

Well, I just took my 15 yo to the CC for placement testing today. He scored 97/100 on both reading skills and English. He also placed into his choice of three math classes (Trig/Precalc or Discrete Mathematics). If in PS he would have three years left. I think I'll keep "experimenting" with the younger 3. I hope I can similarly "ruin" them.

 

LOVE THIS!!!

[Cindy in NY]

I'd fill my own tooth if I could get the tools.

 

LOL! Comeback of the day!

[ChristusG]

Ummm, wow. Yeah, I think I would probably have to say something to that person. She wasn't asking for opinions on whether or not to homeschool her child....she was asking for tips from fellow homeschoolers. Those people were in the wrong with their responses. And the thing is, a mother IS an expert on her child. That's where they are wrong too.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The "friend's friend" may have a point if the person is writing an upper level textbook, or even teaching a class of many children where the main challenge is teaching multiple levels of the same grade at the same time as well as classroom management. Homeschooling is more on the lines of tutoring. If the mom in question can follow the curricula, explain things when necessary and provide access to good materials then she is eminently qualified to teach in this setting. Schools are notorious for failing students who are gifted. In fact that is one of the top reasons why I am homeschooling my gifted son.

[Melissa in FL]

Well, I know I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut. I would reply with something like this:

 

"The best advise I can give you is to set those who are your "friends" to ignore if they don't support homeschooling. During the first year you need a good support system and need to distance yourself from nay-sayers who believe only a person with a BA is qualified to teach basic elementary concepts. Remember, most public school teachers spent their college days learning how to manage to control large groups of children. You already know how to motivate your child and have been teaching her since you had her. If you choose not set non-supportive people on ignore than I would suggest finding a supportive online homeschool group that you can go to with questions related to homeschooling (if you need suggestions, just e-mail me). Remember, people have been homeschooling for all of human history, and there are 2 million other families just in the USA out there to help you on your journey!"

 

I would not respond to the friends "friend" at all, but I would respond.

Melissa

[KidsHappen]

but it is a parent's right to ruin her child's education.

 

Yes, that's why we allow parents to send their children to ps even when it is clearly not in the child's best interest to go.

[Danestress]

I wouldn't respond to the critical comments on Facebook. I might write my friend a personal, private note addressing them. On the facebook account I would say something short and encouraging about how you had the same worries when you started, but how great homeschooling has been.

[KidsHappen]

Even to raise a vegetable garden, one needs the right tools, education, and years to experiment with plenty of failures along the way.

 

Anyone who believes the the ps system is not years of experimentation with plenty of failures is sadly mistaken.

[Macrina]

Completely off topic...Macrina are you by any chance on TBW too?

Was :) Not there so much anymore

 

I don't "do" social networks, and this provides yet another reason to avoid them, frankly.

 

I would advise the page "owner" to ban the [tremendously] offensive individual permanently. If that can't be done by herself, then contact the "management" (if any exist) for help in barring that person from ever posting again on this page owner's space.

 

I hope the mother does, she has not replied yet. But I did block the offensive poster and the thread looks so much nicer now! :lol: He did say before I got rid of his comments from my view:

I guess if <mother> would like me to withdraw, I certainly will. She knows I love <daughter>, and would do just about anything for her, that I have her best interests at heart.

 

At which point I FINALLY addressed him with:

I'm sorry, I have tried to bite my tongue, <mother> should just do herself and everyone a favor and delete the thread, it's so hurtful. I don't understand, <poster>, how if you care so much about this child you could be so hurtful to her mother. Shame on you.

 

And he replied: I haven't said anything hurtful to <mother>. I've said I think that <daughter> whose IQ tests in the high 150s needs to be challenged. I don't see how that assertion can hurt anyone. Suggesting that I would get the best possible for my child is hardly an insult.

 

Whatever. I'm so over it. I just feel sad for her. There was one other mother trying to counter his hurtful remarks but it just feeds him on. Three Orthodox hsing Mom's against one idiot in cyber space. This shouldn't be so hard.

[GailV]

I think the friend/author is giving the mom a subtle reminder that she doesn't have to worry about ruining her daughter's social skills since obviously there are socially inept non-homeschoolers (case in point, the author of this note). Also, the friend/author has given a sparkling example of how non-homeschoolers really can be clueless on the art of argument and the use of logic, so the mother shouldn't worry about her ability to teach those subjects.

[Macrina]

I wouldn't respond to the critical comments on Facebook. I might write my friend a personal, private note addressing them. On the facebook account I would say something short and encouraging about how you had the same worries when you started, but how great homeschooling has been.

 

Oh I know that's why I did not address him at all- until ONCE at the very end before I blocked his comments from my view! I just feel so bad for the Mom who hasn't said ANYTHING in response yet.

[Macrina]

nay-sayers who believe only a person with a BA is qualified to teach basic elementary concepts.

 

The "friend" is well aware that the mother is a published author with TWO bachelor degrees. Not like it matters.

 

Anyone who believes the the ps system is not years of experimentation with plenty of failures is sadly mistaken.

 

Love this!

 

I think the friend/author is giving the mom a subtle reminder that she doesn't have to worry about ruining her daughter's social skills since obviously there are socially inept non-homeschoolers (case in point, the author of this note). Also, the friend/author has given a sparkling example of how non-homeschoolers really can be clueless on the art of argument and the use of logic, so the mother shouldn't worry about her ability to teach those subjects.

 

And this one! :lol:

[Ferdie]

Well, that is a hoot. My homeschooling neighbors built their own addition with their 5 boys. The boys learned about construction, permits, dealing with inspectors and correcting mistakes. The house addition came out beautiful and so did their children. Their oldest two are in college - one at Notre Dame and the other in Dallas on a full ride scholarship. LOL!

[EthiopianFood]

1. Parenting is also infinitely more difficult than any of those things. Should we let the government train people to raise our children then?

 

2. The ps system is constantly demanding more money to improve it's children's terrible test scores and unacceptable display of reading and math skills upon graduation. If typical children aren't rising to their fullest potention, how in the world will they serve a gifted child?

 

Ugh.

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I am close to crying for this mother. HSing already has it's own mountains to climb and she has been so brave to begin and so honest and vulnerable. I just want to hug her.

 

Please, please ensure this woman gets quick access to the support network she needs ... send her here even for a quick start! I can only imagine how painful and debilitating such comments could be when played directly upon her natural fears and self doubt like that.

 

This kind of mentality is due to a chronic ignorance of history, ... which leaves open the opportunity for all kinds of derogatory public schooling references/jokes ...

[Dirtroad]

Regarding the second reply that poor mother got, I have never seen a school that provides "constant stretching and intellectual challenges to nurture her gifts". That's one of the best things about homeschooling. You can actually give your kid that. They can't really get that in school where there is one teacher for 30+ kids.

:iagree:

 

I thought of this exact thing. They won't be getting that in any of hte usual schools.... atleast at Home they can self study & pursue advanced interest with their whole heart & mind. They can't do that at school.:glare:

 

People really have NO clue what homeschooling is about... they just think it is more of the parrot work they see in classrooms... teacher says it, kids memorize it, and test show it. That is how I became an honor student in high school. Homeschooling is soooo much more complex & the opportunities are limitless! They just can't see outside their box.

[iluvmy4blessings]

I am a state certified teacher. I have my license from the state, passed all the state exams, and I have a Masters degree in Education.

 

Every teacher I know will tell you that everything you need to know you really learn once you get your first job. Educational theory and methods change from year to year and are never totally agreed upon anyway . Schools are constantly changing their textbooks and approaches. Whoever posted that homeschoolers are experimenting on their children---well that person needs to wake up and smell the coffee. What do you think the schools are doing? Do these people think God created a school building on the 7th day?

 

I'm sorry to say that the people who left these facebook comments sound very uneducated themselves. Could it be that they feel threatened by this mom being willing to dedicate her life to her children's education? I don't know a single homeschooler who thinks they are "better" than anyone else. Yet a lot of non homeschoolers feel threatened as if the mere fact that we are homeschooling means that we feel they are bad parents for NOT homeschooling. Perhaps they assume homeschoolers feel that way, so they must jump up and defend themselves even though no one is attacking them.

 

I'm sorry to say that these parents are living in a blissful ignorance that their schools are all knowing and perfect. Although they might have an occasional good teacher, I'm sorry to report most of them are just learning as they go (just like us!)

 

Last but not least, if the educational model that works best is 30:1 ratio of student to teacher (if not much more), then how come we write up IEP's (INDIVIDUAL education plans) for children struggling. Why do we pull kids out of the classroom into a resource room to help them? Why do people pay untold amouts of money to Sylvan for one on one tutoring? Why do schools advertise it at the top of their brochure as a good thing when the class ratio is fewer students to one teacher. Hmmm...could it be that teachers can do a better job when they have fewer students to deal with?

 

I have learned most of what I know from homeschooling moms. The rest I learned from some educational theory textbooks that anyone can buy off half.com. It's not like you have to be in grad school to get these books. Peruse the ed theory books to see what grad students are studying . Then notice how they change over time. I have a Bachelors and Masters degree plus a teaching certificate hanging on my wall, yet I come HERE to ask questions about curriculum. Hmmmm.......I think I will stick with the homeschoolers!

Edited September 1, 2009 by iluvmy4blessings

[elegantlion]

What's really sad is that she was looking for encouragement and all they could focus on was how to tear her down. I know my "friends" IRL and on facebook don't support or understand everything I do, but real "facebook" friends don't consciously put roadblocks in front of another "friends" goals. Perhaps that needs to be made into flair. ;)

[Joanne]

"Dear Facebook friend...I wish you much joy, support and strength in this year. There is an amazing amount of positive research about the social and academic success of homeschoolers. In addition, there is a wonderfully rich variety of choices in activities, curriculum, extracurriculars and various resources. One thing I've learned in my time as a homeschooler is to not focus on or pay attention to negative focus, unsolicited feedback or skepticsm. Homeschooling, like other counter cultural choices, tends to elicit visceral, passionate and sometimes under-educated reactions. You were asking for support and know that you've got it, unconditionally, "from me".

[Jugglin'5]

 

And he replied: I haven't said anything hurtful to <mother>. I've said I think that <daughter> whose IQ tests in the high 150s needs to be challenged. I don't see how that assertion can hurt anyone. Suggesting that I would get the best possible for my child is hardly an insult.

 

 

 

Very often, these are exactly the kids that thrive on homeschooling. For so many of them, school is about waiting on everyone else.

[BigMamaBird]

I find that teachers or "professional educators" as they like to style themselves, are often the most defensive and threatened by homeschoolers. I'd un-friend this joker then forget it.

[HRAAB]

Fourteen years ago when I was just beginning homeschooling, these comments would have hurt and made me seriously doubt that I was making a wise choice. Now, with two in college, and three happy, well adjusted children at home, I just shake my head at comments like these. They're entitled to their opinion; I'm entitled to call their opinions nonsense.

 

And we repair our own cars, have remodeled and added on to our house and represented ourselves in court. Successfully. No, I haven't filled a cavity, but I have successfully educated two students through high school who are succeeding at college.

 

Janet

[Tree House Academy]

Wow...that would likely cause me (as the mother) to delete those two friends. I don't surround myself with people who can not, at the very least, respect my choice to homeschool my children. They may not agree with me, but to think that we have not weighed the options, thought of the remifications, and made this decision prayerfully and because it is in the best interest of our family is just insulting.

 

And...as a retort...we actually *do* repair our own cars, my dh built a good portion of our house, and I have pulled LOTS of baby teeth. ;)

[8circles]

"Dear Facebook friend...I wish you much joy, support and strength in this year. There is an amazing amount of positive research about the social and academic success of homeschoolers. In addition, there is a wonderfully rich variety of choices in activities, curriculum, extracurriculars and various resources. One thing I've learned in my time as a homeschooler is to not focus on or pay attention to negative focus, unsolicited feedback or skepticsm. Homeschooling, like other counter cultural choices, tends to elicit visceral, passionate and sometimes under-educated reactions. You were asking for support and know that you've got it, unconditionally, "from me".

 

LOVE it! Can I steal this? ;)

[kalanamak]

 

And he replied: I haven't said anything hurtful to <mother>. I've said I think that <daughter> whose IQ tests in the high 150s needs to be challenged. I don't see how that assertion can hurt anyone. Suggesting that I would get the best possible for my child is hardly an insult.

 

 

He should have done it privately, not all over Facebook.

[BikeBookBread]

I don't "do" social networks, and this provides yet another reason to avoid them, frankly.

 

 

Ditto. I "committed FB suicide" about 3 weeks ago (I was recently told that this is what killing your account is called :lol:). A friend of a friend made a very snarky comment about my husband on my wall...I didn't know that this could be done, but my settings were 100% private (awful way to find out).

[Pam Wilhelm]

Well, I have put an addition on a house, I have represented myself in court and I have repaired my own car....... and now I am homeschooling my three kids.

 

No, it's not for everyone....... but it is for us. :D

[Jean in Newcastle]

I bet even a dentist doesn't fill his own teeth! (It's kind of hard to see and get your hands in the right positions. . .):D

[sweetbasil]

Personally, I'd post homeschool outcome statistics, including parental education levels and dollars spent.

 

He's entitled to his own opinion but not his own facts.

[rlowetx]

A simple reply of a link to Mr. Gatto's research would suffice. And then maybe offer a time online to have a book discussion.:lol::lol::lol:

 

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/

[mommy&herboys]

This is our first year homeschooling and I am new to this forum. This video was shared with me by another homeschooling mom. This is for your friend. :001_smile:

 

 

[Impish]

1. Parenting is also infinitely more difficult than any of those things. Should we let the government train people to raise our children then?

 

2. The ps system is constantly demanding more money to improve it's children's terrible test scores and unacceptable display of reading and math skills upon graduation. If typical children aren't rising to their fullest potention, how in the world will they serve a gifted child?

 

Ugh.

Shhh! Don't give Big Brother any more ideas! I've no doubt, considering some of the things I've heard and read, that handing parental control over to the government isn't much off from public schooling as it is.

 

I mean, think about it. I did...and that's why I'll never ever willingly put another child in ps again.

[tex-mex]

Goodness... why bother with enemies when you have FB friends like these? If I were the gal, I'd delete them from my friend list. :grouphug:

[tex-mex]

Ditto. I "committed FB suicide" about 3 weeks ago (I was recently told that this is what killing your account is called :lol:). A friend of a friend made a very snarky comment about my husband on my wall...I didn't know that this could be done, but my settings were 100% private (awful way to find out).

 

Oh no! How did this happen? Now I'm worried about my private FB page. Eeeep.

[Cricket]

and one of her "friends" says:

Most people wouldn't fill one of their own teeth, build an addition to a house, represent themselves in court, repair their own car, but when it comes to educating a child which is infinitely more complex than any of these, parents always assume they have the necessary expertise. Even to raise a vegetable garden, one needs the right tools, education, and years to experiment with plenty of failures along the way.

 

Funny how my first vegetable was a great success. :) Mostly because I worked hard and paid attention to it. Most homeschooling and every thing else is simple common sense. Since we have taken a job as managers for an RV park I've had the opportunity to try plumbing and various other maintenance work. It's not nearly as hard as it looks! Common sense and relying on other knowledgeable people can help you accomplish a lot of things!

 

and then someone else challenges him and he replies:

I'm a teacher and a parent, they're different skills. When one of my dogs is sick I take it to the vet. When one of my children needs help, I get the best I can find for them. The last thing I want to do is experiment on my own child. I know <mother> as a bright and loving parent, supremely competent, but <daughter> is on the edge of genius. She needs constant stretching and intellectual challenges to nurture her gifts. Hey, this is an opinion. I'm not trying to impugn the royal society of homeschoolers, but as a teacher I spend every waking moment trying to think of ways to get the exceptional ones to reach a little higher and look a little deeper, it's not a part-time pursuit. Teaching is a calling. I'm not in favor of dilettantism. I know it's the fashion, but it's a bad fashion, and the victims are the kids. Part of helping your child to grow up is letting go. This is free advice, given in love, and worth exactly what you paid for it.

 

I'm not sure why he thinks a homeschooling parent wouldn't be the same way!

 

This kind of makes me chuckle because tonight because one of my son's friend's mom called me tonight to ask me about her son's math homework. :lol:

[MamaSheep]

Really I am just irate with the comment. It's below:

 

Mother posts:

Any words of wisdom from you homeschoolers out there? Tomorrow's my first jaunt into this arena, with my daughter, who's a 7th grader. Just hoping I won't be a flop of a teacher--or worse--a flop of a mother!

 

and one of her "friends" says:

Most people wouldn't fill one of their own teeth, build an addition to a house, represent themselves in court, repair their own car, but when it comes to educating a child which is infinitely more complex than any of these, parents always assume they have the necessary expertise. Even to raise a vegetable garden, one needs the right tools, education, and years to experiment with plenty of failures along the way.

 

and then someone else challenges him and he replies:

I'm a teacher and a parent, they're different skills. When one of my dogs is sick I take it to the vet. When one of my children needs help, I get the best I can find for them. The last thing I want to do is experiment on my own child. I know <mother> as a bright and loving parent, supremely competent, but <daughter> is on the edge of genius. She needs constant stretching and intellectual challenges to nurture her gifts. Hey, this is an opinion. I'm not trying to impugn the royal society of homeschoolers, but as a teacher I spend every waking moment trying to think of ways to get the exceptional ones to reach a little higher and look a little deeper, it's not a part-time pursuit. Teaching is a calling. I'm not in favor of dilettantism. I know it's the fashion, but it's a bad fashion, and the victims are the kids. Part of helping your child to grow up is letting go. This is free advice, given in love, and worth exactly what you paid for it.

 

:cursing:

 

This poor mother! How could she have such a "friend"? And I am so spitting mad I have to post about it here because I am above facebook arguing. I did post my encouraging words to her and sent her a good link privately, but I did not take on the tyrant. So will you all just post about how many different levels he is so wrong and make me feel better? How can anyone be so naive?

 

I haven't read all the responses yet, so forgive me if this is a repeat.

 

Parents (good ones, at least) also spend every waking moment trying to think of ways to help their children "reach a little higher and look a little deeper" whether they are the "exceptional" ones or not. In fact, parents are usually much more willing than a professional teacher to look a little deeper into EACH child and find that thing about the child that is exceptional, rather than focusing on those with obvious talents and merely shepherding the "unexceptional" ones along to the next grade level. Parents are also not distracted by the needs of twenty-five other children (in each of how many classes?) and can therefore focus more time and attention on the needs of their one particular child. A child who is "on the edge of genius" will thrive in a one-on-one tutelage scenario in which she does not have to sit around and wait for the teacher to give her the few minutes of individual attention he can spare for her. Indeed, a parent teaching "part-time" generally can spend a great deal more time helping and challenging the student than a "full time" teacher can, simply due to the teacher/student ratio involved. This gifted child needs constant stretching and intellectual challenges to nurture her gifts, and a professional teacher in a classroom setting simply does not have the time nor the resources to offer her that level of nurturing. Hey, this is an opinion. I'm not trying to impugn the royal society of certified teachers, but professional teachers are simply too overextended to offer the educational environment needed by our children. I'm not in favor of academic snobbery. I know it's the fashion, but it's a bad fashion, and the victims are the kids. Part of helping your child to grow up is knowing when to step in, and having the courage to do it even when the ivory tower mocks you for doing so. This is free advice, given in love, and worth more than you can know until you follow it.

Edited September 1, 2009 by MamaSheep

[mirth]

Didn't J. Gatto say in Dumbing Us Down that in his 25 years of teaching, he has never once overheard teachers discussing the academic aspects of any students at all in the faculty lounge?

 

Every waking moment, indeed.

[MamaSheep]

Every waking moment, indeed.

 

But only for the "exceptional" ones. The rest are what, chopped liver?

[rlowetx]

Didn't J. Gatto say in Dumbing Us Down that in his 25 years of teaching, he has never once overheard teachers discussing the academic aspects of any students at all in the faculty lounge?

 

 

 

I was actually thinking of the exact same thing. My mom, who has been teaching only for the last 5 years, noted the same thing.

[JennC]

This gifted child needs constant stretching and intellectual challenges to nurture her gifts, and a professional teacher in a classroom setting simply does not have the time nor the resources to offer her that level of nurturing. Hey, this is an opinion. I'm not trying to impugn the royal society of certified teachers, but professional teachers are simply too overextended to offer the educational environment needed by our children. I'm not in favor of academic snobbery. I know it's the fashion, but it's a bad fashion, and the victims are the kids. Part of helping your child to grow up is knowing when to step in, and having the courage to do it even when the ivory tower mocks you for doing so. This is free advice, given in love, and worth more than you can know until you follow it.

 

I just thought this was worth repeating.:001_smile:

[KathyBC]

:iagree: