Complaining and fixing

[Laura Corin]

I'm a fixer - if someone complains, my initial assumption is that they must want to feel better, and I make suggestions.  I do know that some people just enjoy complaining but I find it hard to bite my tongue.  I also find it irritating when someone complains about something that is easily fixable - it feels like they are taking up space in my head rather than bothering to solve the problem.  

 

I'm curious how people would react in this situation.  Both people are adult.

 

Person A walks into the kitchen to find person B wearing thin cotton pyjamas and a cotton robe.  Person B is very cold - cold hands and clearly very uncomfortable.  Person B has been in the cold kitchen for at least an hour and complains about the cold.  Person A gives person B a hug and suggests getting dressed - the central heating is on full blast but has a hard time keeping the kitchen warm on very cold days. ETA: Person B doesn't react to the suggestion - just complains some more.

 

The next day promises to be even colder, so person A leaves a friendly note suggesting wrapping up warm.  Person B is a habitual person who tends to wear the same clothes each day rather than thinking about suitability.

 

Person B reacts badly to being 'managed' and when the complaints of the previous day are mentioned, sees no connection between yesterday's conversation and today's suggestions.

 

The poll is multi-choice in case you need it.  

Edited December 11, 2017 by Laura Corin

[Arcadia]

My dad is a person of habits and also won’t see the connection. My mom would have to explain the connection to him. My brother sometimes do not get connections either but is not a person of habits and would just do as the note says. Neither my dad nor my brother gets offended though.

[Jaybee]

If person B is quite elderly, I would assume that they really may not be able to make the connections anymore. That could include the connections between clothing and cold, and between suggestions and behavior changes. If person B is a young adult, I would assume they deserve to get cold if they can't accept the common sense suggestions to prepare for it. 

[Laura Corin]

were I an adult and someone offered me suggestions while I was clearly cold, I would be puzzled. my brain isn't working if I had been there for an hour turning into an iceblock.  Hopefully they will throw a blanket on me and hand me a cup of tea.

 

The suggestions that offended were given the next day, not when the person had been standing around getting cold.

[Laura Corin]

Now I'm confused. I thought the cold person was given a hug and a suggestion to get dressed immediately after complaining of the cold.

 

That's right, but the bad reaction was to the note the next day.  I'll edit my OP.

[bolt.]

Be affronted that they apparently thought I was too stupid to identify a solution to my problem if I wanted to.

 

Sometimes I need to make the same mistake more than once in order to begin implementing a new procedure -- but I definitely don't need to be instructed in the connections between clothing and temperature.

 

I don't mind brainstorming with someone if they aren't stating the obvious. When people phase obvious solutions as suggestions, I feel like they see me as foolish.

[klmama]

I think Sadie nailed it.  

 

 

[regentrude]

Sometimes a person just needs to complain and vent without desiring advice for a solution. In that case, it is perceived as very irritating when somebody offers advice, because the person perceives this as minimizing her emotions and being brushed off.

 

Sometimes a person wants advice and help finding a solution.

 

People can learn to express their expectations clearly. 

My DH has learned to ask me whether I just need to get something off my chest and need to hear him say "poor you", or whether I want his help in finding a solution to a problem. Sometimes what I need is just sympathy, at other times I want constructive help.

[Laura Corin]

Sometimes a person just needs to complain and vent without desiring advice for a solution. In that case, it is perceived as very irritating when somebody offers advice, because the person perceives this as minimizing her emotions and being brushed off.

 

Sometimes a person wants advice and help finding a solution.

 

People can learn to express their expectations clearly.

My DH has learned to ask me whether I just need to get something off my chest and need to hear him say "poor you", or whether I want his help in finding a solution to a problem. Sometimes what I need is just sympathy, at other times I want constructive help.

It occurs to me that I react situationally. You are cold? Let's make you warm. Your arthritis is playing up? I'll sit and sympathise.

[SKL]

There are times when I get "affronted" by suggestions.  For example, I'm in the middle of doing X which I'm responsible for (or I'm planning to do it but in the middle of something else important), and a certain controlling person says "Do X."  Especially when X involves obvious responsibilities to my kids, as if said controlling person cares more about my kids than I do.  Grr ....

 

In the case you describe, I would probably appreciate it as a caring thing.   However, it is also possible I would not remember the reason you were suggesting it.  I don't often remember how I was feeling at some previous point in time.

 

Regarding dressing warmly, it might also depend on whether I've been having hot and cold flashes recently.  :P

[Rosika]

I voted that I'd be affronted. But that has less to do with any given situation, and everything to do with the fact that I'm prickly in general. My feathers get ruffled when cashiers tell me to have a nice day, because what if I don't want to TYVM. (I've been working on this character flaw for decades. Let's just say there's still a long way to go, sigh.)

 

But I'm a fixer also so I'd have handled it exactly as Person A did. If someone just wants to vent, they need to give me a heads up. I can listen and play my part in a "conversation" if I know that's what they want. But my default is to assume that they're making something my business because they want my assistance on how to solve it. Over the years I've learned to ask: "Are you just complaining, or did you want me to help you fix this??" But sometimes I forget. Just like sometimes they forget to remind me that they're just looking to bitch and not to get solutions. Relationships can be messy!

[Rosie_0801]

I could get any combination of the poll options, dealing with my cognitively challenged relative, because of mood and because the cognitive challenges come and go.

 

If someone told me to put on more clothes when I'd be sitting around cold, my most natural reaction would be to wonder why I was being an idiot. :lol: A note the next day would irritate me, since I'm obviously not going to behave like an idiot in the same way, two days in a row!

[hjffkj]

I would be fine with the initial suggestions. But the note would annoy me.

[Arcadia]

Assuming it is your mom who was annoyed, is she used to getting reminder notes from you or anyone else? My maternal and paternal relatives are really big on reminder notes for my aunts to buy lottery tickets as well as race horse betting tickets sometimes. So a reminder sticky note next to their spectacles/eyeglasses on the night table that it would be a colder day and to remember to wear a cardigan or thick house coat before leaving the bedroom would just be so normal it won’t feel managing.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Arcadia

[Shellydon]

If I want a suggestion for fixing something, I ask for it very directly.  Otherwise I do not want someone's suggestions.

[Garga]

This is interesting. My dh is the sort who doesn't like to be helped with notes and things. I wouldn't mind it at all. It wouldn't cross my mind to think twice about it.

 

But now I'm realizing that when his parents "help" him with things, it really (reeeeally) comes across as if they think you're just too stupid to figure it out for yourself. On the other hand, my mother is a humble person and when she gives advice, it comes across as a humble suggestion from a place of caring.

 

And now the two of us have carried that into adulthood. I see giving suggestions to dress warm as being a servant to the other person--like a valet or someone tending to another with care. That's because my family gave out suggestions that way--as a humble way to tend and care for each other. My Dh sees "helpful advice" as yet another way to criticize, which is how his family is--critical.

 

I don't until right now I realized why my dh closes down when I try to help him. (And I'm really tired of dealing with the fall out of his parents being so critical of their kids.)

Edited December 12, 2017 by Garga

[Guinevere]

I'd rather be told that my complaining was getting annoying and that I either needed to fix my problem or hush up about it, than I would like to be told an obvious solution. And I'd be pretty mad about the note, because it sounds condescending. If person b is a child, under 12, I think telling them what to do when they are cold, or reminding them with a note, is in bounds.

[rainbowmama]

I don't like being cold. I feel even worse in lots of layers. I complain about the cold while refusing to put more clothes on. What I really want is a better heating system

[Laura Corin]

Assuming it is your mom who was annoyed, is she used to getting reminder notes from you or anyone else? My maternal and paternal relatives are really big on reminder notes for my aunts to buy lottery tickets as well as race horse betting tickets sometimes. So a reminder sticky note next to their spectacles/eyeglasses on the night table that it would be a colder day and to remember to wear a cardigan or thick house coat before leaving the bedroom would just be so normal it won’t feel managing.

 

I leave notes for the whole family all the time.  I work full time and don't see people until evening.

[Laura Corin]

I don't like being cold. I feel even worse in lots of layers. I complain about the cold while refusing to put more clothes on. What I really want is a better heating system

 

Yeah.  We already have the best system we can get.  The problem is that the kitchen can't be insulated - it has double glazing already but the flat roof and thin wall construction (cheapo 1970s) can't be improved.  The rest of the house is better - thick walls and insulated pitched roofs.

[foxbridgeacademy]

I am both a complainer and a fixer.  I am neither offended or thankful when someone suggests I do something to fix what I'm complaining about.  I'm about as likely to continue complaining as I am to actually do what was suggested.. My most common response is to acknowledge that the fixer is right I should have grabbed my coat and yes I'll know better next time (no I won't I'll completely forget the conversation entirely) my children are exactly the same way.  It seems like we're a bunch of hens going around picking at each other all day. 

[Carrie12345]

I checked puzzled and other, but I probably should have checked all 4, lol.

 

It wouldn't cross my mind to genuinely recommend an adult bundle up.  I might mention something sarcastically in the morning example.  We're a very sarcastic family, so it wouldn't be out of the norm.  I do assume that neurotypical adults are capable of figuring out how to dress.

 

I am a complainer, and it's normal for me to complain about the cold, but I will do nearly anything to get out of wearing a coat, as long as I have my warm, fuzzy socks.  Cold is an inconvenience I can only accept on Christmas.  :tongue_smilie:

[Wheres Toto]

I wouldn't have even given it that much thought.  Most likely I would have put on warmer clothes as soon as I felt cold (I wear hoodies in the summer because of the air conditioning).  

 

If for some reason I didn't, like I was super distracted, I'd probably think "good idea!" and go bundle up.  That has probably happened with dh throwing off a casual comment about it. Neither of us really give it much of a thought.  I know either one of us may comment on how cold it is outside and suggest a coat.  

[JFSinIL]

I would have looked at Person B and asked them "Why didn't you put on your warmer robe?" or, if it is an older person, later on I might make sure a warmer robe is out and hang the cotton robe in the back of the closet. If this is your elderly relative, I'd gently remind them they had a warmer robe "My, it is cold! Would you like me to help you find the warm robe?".

 

 

If it is a teen complaining about being cold, I'd have gone "Oh! You poor dear! Let Mommy help!" and gone to give them a BIG HUG." That would teach them to complain when they had not the sense to put on the warm robe I had bought them. ;-)

 

My now 21-yr-old dd complains about being cold, as she runs around here in the Midwest in winter wearing little cotton socks on her feet. We have wooden floors in a chilly 1906 house.

Edited December 12, 2017 by JFSinIL

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'd be affronted.  But then I'd never complain about something without taking steps to fix it prior.  If my efforts failed, THEN I'd complain.  And to have such a suggestion made would leave me feeling like...does this person think I'm stupid and had not already tried that?! 

 

 

[eternalsummer]

I am a complainer who is not generally interested in being fixed.  If I want to complain, I will say, "ugh, I am SO TIRED of answering convos [customer service emails on Etsy], I've been doing it for 2 hours!"  If I want to be fixed, I'll say, "hey, answering convos for hours sucks!   I'm so tired of it! What would you (DH) do if you were responsible for the convos?"

 

In both cases, I've put off answering them for a few days and so I have hundreds built up and they take a few hours.  Because my executive function skills aren't great, I sometimes put them off without really wanting to put them off - that is, I want to answer them but I never  get around to it.  DH has great executive function so often he has ideas about how to manage these things more efficiently, and that really helps.

 

But only if I'm looking for help.  Sometimes I know what the problem is - I've slacked off on the convos and now I have to pay the piper - and I just want to vent, I don't want to be managed or advised.  If I complained the first way ("Ugh this is so boring!" etc.) and DH said, "hey, you should have answered those days ago.  Why don't you just do them first thing every morning?" or whatever, I'd probably be mildly irritated but think, well, fine, he's right.

 

If he then left me a note to find in the morning saying, "remember to answer your convos!" I'd be miffed.  The exception would be if I'd developed a serious recurrent habit of convo-not-answering and he (or the business as a whole) were suffering for it - then he'd be justified in nagging.

 

ETA: DH is a fixer - his automatic response to "I'm tired of convos" is "Why didn't you do them yesterday?".  He's generally been very good about not over-correcting, or at least tempering the correction with sympathy.

Edited December 12, 2017 by eternalsummer

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'd be affronted.  But then I'd never complain about something without taking steps to fix it prior.  If my efforts failed, THEN I'd complain.  And to have such a suggestion made would leave me feeling like...does this person think I'm stupid and had not already tried that?! 

 

Which leads me to wonder if the person believes they had taken all the right steps to remedy the situation.  Doesn't mean they did, but maybe they believe they did.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by SparklyUnicorn

[Guest]

Well, I would probably recognize that I am not dressed correctly and the person is trying to help, but I also know that, if this is an elderly person, they are likely to not react in the most logical way. I know my MIL would have continuously worn the same clothes regardless of weather had I not picked out the clothes daily.

 

In my home, I get annoyed by DH’s suggestions to me because he just does not feel the cold while I do. So his suggestions to me are to adapt. Thanks, honey. Super helpful.

[Janie Grace]

I am a complainer who is not generally interested in being fixed.  If I want to complain, I will say, "ugh, I am SO TIRED of answering convos, I've been doing it for 2 hours!"  If I want to be fixed, I'll say, "hey, answering convos for hours sucks!   I'm so tired of it! What would you (DH) do if you were responsible for the convos?"

 

What is a convo?

[eternalsummer]

conversation (customer service email on Etsy); I'll go edit

 

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by eternalsummer

[elegantlion]

I like Sadie's response. 

 

If it's your mother, she may just want to complain. If I recall, she was used to living further south and it may be a general complaint about colder weather.

 

I also dislike wearing so many layers when I'm cold. Right now my feet are cold and I could put on socks, but I don't want to get dressed yet. If I tell my mother I'm cold, she'll turn up the furnace, she's a fixer too. 

 

My son will walk around the house in a t-shirt and sweatpants and complain about being cold. I remind him to put on another shirt and he doesn't want to. So, the whole complaint, fix, complaint is a generational circle here. 

 

I would also consider if she has enough proper layers that allow her to warm up but not get too hot. 

[Carol in Cal.]

What is awkward about this is the juxtoposition of three relationships:

 

Host/guest

Family member who used to be in charge but now is dependent/family member who used to be dependent but now is in charge

Patient/caregiver (to some extent)

 

If I were a guest, I might not feel free to turn up the heat.  I don't think I would complain about it more than once, but if I were hosting and someone mentioned being cold, I'd turn up the heat for them--but it's different when it's every day or for an extended period of living together.

 

The patient/caregiver thing is what justifies the note the next day.  That sounds pretty OTT and condescending to me.  But if it's a dementia issue, I guess it sort of makes sense.  The trouble is that it's the next day, rather than in the moment.

 

If someone who was a bit dependent lived with me and complained about the cold all the time, and if I didn't feel comfortable turning up the heat, I'd probably (in the moment) say, "Hey, why don't you go into the dining room?  It's always warmer in there" or "Here, I'll get you a sweater."  But I don't think I would hearken back to that convo the next day, because that would be kind of demeaning.  

 

My husband always wears jeans and a t shirt.  Sometimes he complains about the cold, and I joke with him, saying with a grin--hey that's the great thing about being an adult--you get to pick your own clothes!  Then he adds a flannel shirt layer.  We've been doing this for so long that it's a running joke.  But the exact same thing could be disrespectful if said differently.  So that is in the mix as well.  What if you tried a little gentle ribbing?  Would that fit into your relationship?  It might accomplish what you want but in a less charged way.

 

[Laura Corin]

For the record: the central heating is on full and person B has two extra electric heaters in their bedroom.  Wearing layers of clothing is a normal part of our family culture.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Laura Corin

[scrapbookbuzz]

Be affronted that they apparently thought I was too stupid to identify a solution to my problem if I wanted to.

 

Sometimes I need to make the same mistake more than once in order to begin implementing a new procedure -- but I definitely don't need to be instructed in the connections between clothing and temperature.

 

I don't mind brainstorming with someone if they aren't stating the obvious. When people phase obvious solutions as suggestions, I feel like they see me as foolish.

 

When I make suggestions to people for an obvious (to me) solution for a problem a person has complained about, it is not meant as an affront or indicating I think they're foolish. I genuinely care about the welfare of people and would like to help, if possible. It has nothing to do with thinking they're "too stupid to identify a solution." I don't know what their internal mental state is: clear mind, foggy brain, what-have-you. I'm just offering a solution that's obvious to me and may or not be obvious to them at the time.

[Bluegoat]

I think if it's an older person, I would tread a bit more lightly on the note business.  The person might actually need the reminder in a way, but being reminded of that need, or that others see it, could tend to be a little upsetting in itself.  

 

I might refrain from the note, or figure out some way of saying it/addressing it, that can't easily be construed as being paternalistic. (Which I don't think it was, but it's possibly why the person was upset.)

 

As far as just complaining - that might be true in some cases, but if the person was there for an hour and really visibly cold, I might tend to think it was more than that.

[J-rap]

I'd probably be a little sarcastic and say something like "Have you ever heard of warmer pajamas or maybe a wool sweater, mid-winter?"

 

But then that's how we usually handle things in our household, and no one takes it personally. 

 

Even with an elderly person, I'd probably do some gentle teasing and recommend wearing something warmer, and then offer to run get her something then and there.  I'd also recommend sitting in a warmer area part of the house.

[Laurie4b]

If the other person was someone of sound mind, I would ask them please not to complain w/i my hearing if they aren't going to do something about it. 

 

If it was someone elderly who might not have the memory or judgment, I'd probably just go get them a throw blanket or something to warm them up a bit and/or give them new warm pjs for Christmas.