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Why is the search on this board SO BAD??


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What's with the ads?

#1 Moxie

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:48 AM

It is like a bad joke! The threads that it shows when I search for a word don't even contain the word?!? And the threads are in random age order. User error? Am I somehow too stupid to work the search feature correctly??
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#2 HelenNotOfTroy

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:58 AM

I don't know why it is so bad, I use Google to search (search term site:forums.welltrainedmind,com)


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#3 wintermom

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:06 AM

I've had the same problem. It's particularly frustrating when you know that there is a specific thread, you use specific words, and are unable to find it.


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#4 Liz CA

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:08 AM

This has been the one thing on this board that has consistently never worked. Use google.


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#5 DawnM

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:10 AM

can't stand it, I have a really hard time finding old threads even with google.


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#6 Lostinabook

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:10 AM

I know! And the search feature here used to be fantastic which makes it even more frustrating. :-( 


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#7 Elizabeth86

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:13 AM

Thought this was only my problem.
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#8 CPSTAnne

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:32 AM

I can never find what I'm looking for. Even when I know the title of the thread it doesn't always come up. I search through google when I think of it. 


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#9 Mimm

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:39 AM

Oh it really is the worst. I know certain topics have been brought up in the past, and there are some really good threads about them, but who can find them? :)


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#10 Seasider

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:58 AM

IIRC this became an issue when this current format was installed. I think there have been attempts to fix it, but the cost of a great search feature means a sacrifice in some other function, so we live with the poor searchability. Am I remembering that correctly?

I have trouble with google searching topics here, too.
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#11 samba

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 12:08 PM

I know!! I thought it was just me.


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#12 RegGuheert

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 03:32 PM

I have trouble with google searching topics here, too.

Me, too. IIRC, the last time I tried to do a Google search on this forum it didn't return threads, but instead returned links to individual posts. As a result, there were WAY more results than there should have been.
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#13 RegGuheert

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 04:02 PM

Me, too. IIRC, the last time I tried to do a Google search on this forum it didn't return threads, but instead returned links to individual posts. As a result, there were WAY more results than there should have been.

I just tried it again and got the entire thread, so I'm not sure what I saw before.
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#14 OhElizabeth

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 05:01 PM

I only do google site searches anymore.


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#15 SusanC

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 05:23 PM

I only do google site searches anymore.


I agree. In fact I forgot that the WTM site even had a search feature. Eh, Google searches work, and occasionally send me down rabbit trails.
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#16 heartlikealion

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 05:31 PM

I have a lot of trouble, too. I use a combination of google, old emails (email notifications), and using the ctrl F + keyword if it's been recently. Then I have to click through a few pages.


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#17 Lady Florida.

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 05:53 PM

I don't even bother to use it anymore. It's just awful. I don't understand why, in 2017, it doesn't work better. 


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#18 Lanny

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 08:42 PM

I don't know why it is so bad, I use Google to search (search term site:forums.welltrainedmind,com)

That's what I do. Use the Google Search Engine but limit the search to the WTM website

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#19 unsinkable

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 08:50 PM

It is like a bad joke! The threads that it shows when I search for a word don't even contain the word?!? And the threads are in random age order. User error? Am I somehow too stupid to work the search feature correctly??


What might you be searching for? Can I help? :D

#20 okbud

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 08:51 PM

I Google search the forum practically daily. Eep! I can assure you that no threads containing the word "progymnasmata" (and many others) that survived the board Transition has eluded my eager eyeballs!

ETA. It's really no problem. And wtm is so super free. Plus, what are they going to install that's a better search engine than Google?

Edited by okbud, 12 August 2017 - 08:53 PM.


#21 Homeschool Mom in AZ

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:42 PM

Because most people who write software aren't good at it. My husband is a software consultant.  He's hired by companies to come in, identify the problems, come up with solutions,make sure changes are made, and write some of the software. He's constantly scandalized and embarrassed at the low quality software programmers we've been churning out for decades now. Most take the Rube Goldberg approach to writing ad maintaining code.  It's really a poor reflection on some of the STEM education in the US.  

For example, he had to fire a very "experienced" programmer.  My husband gutted and rewrote the code they guy spent 6 months being paid to write and that had never worked.  It took my husband 3 weeks and has not had a problem with it since for more than 2 years.

Another example:  He sits in on interviews as a technical expert listening to managers ask applicants questions.  It's very common for applicants to lie about their past experience and skills.   One applicant claimed he had managed a program of more than a million lines of code for the car company he worked for.  My husband has written software for a space station, satellite systems, military combat aircraft, civilian aircraft, military nuclear projects, secured payment kiosks, industrial laser systems, and such for 30+ years.  He has yet to manage a million+ lines of code program.  When he asked more detailed questions about typical trade off questions programmers make designing and developing large coding projects, it was immediately apparent the programmer had never worked on big projects before and was bluffing his way through with generalities that didn't really apply to the situation. 

Yet another: When he applied to Garmon part of the interview process involved writing actual code.  There was an applicant who got all the way through the interview but then walked out when he had to write code. Very basic code. He couldn't write code.  The guy applying for the programming job.


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#22 J-rap

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:43 PM

I agree.  It is horrible.  I've never ever, as in not even once, been able to find a thread I'm looking for through the search engine.  I don't even bother to try anymore.


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#23 nansk

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:44 PM

I use Google to do a general search in the forum.

 

What I'd love is to be able to search within topics I follow. Over the years I've used the "Follow this topic" button to bookmark threads to read later. Now I have so many in that list, I have to scroll several pages to find a specific topic.


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#24 Ausmumof3

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 12:18 AM

I thought it was just me!

#25 extendedforecast

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 02:04 AM

Thought this was only my problem.


Me too! I thought I was doing something wrong. 95% of my searches yield posts from 2016 and older. It's so frustrating.
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#26 Elizabeth86

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 06:00 AM

Come to think of it, google searches about homeschool questions I had is what brought me here in the first place. Funny I forgot that. Great way to search here, thanks for the teminder.
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#27 Lostinabook

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:39 AM

Plus, what are they going to install that's a better search engine than Google?

 

When the search engine here worked well you could search for words in the title only, the thread author and the specific board. For instance, I knew that a particular poster had started a thread about coffee. Later I wanted to know what processes had been recommended, so I looked up that specific thread and got it. Doesn't work any more. So...it provided a much narrower search AND sorting by date. With google you just get a mess of posts, many times with duplicates.  Again, it wouldn't frustrate me nearly so much if the search engine here hadn't once been amazing.



#28 J-rap

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 09:18 AM

Because most people who write software aren't good at it. My husband is a software consultant.  He's hired by companies to come in, identify the problems, come up with solutions,make sure changes are made, and write some of the software. He's constantly scandalized and embarrassed at the low quality software programmers we've been churning out for decades now. Most take the Rube Goldberg approach to writing ad maintaining code.  It's really a poor reflection on some of the STEM education in the US.  

For example, he had to fire a very "experienced" programmer.  My husband gutted and rewrote the code they guy spent 6 months being paid to write and that had never worked.  It took my husband 3 weeks and has not had a problem with it since for more than 2 years.

Another example:  He sits in on interviews as a technical expert listening to managers ask applicants questions.  It's very common for applicants to lie about their past experience and skills.   One applicant claimed he had managed a program of more than a million lines of code for the car company he worked for.  My husband has written software for a space station, satellite systems, military combat aircraft, civilian aircraft, military nuclear projects, secured payment kiosks, industrial laser systems, and such for 30+ years.  He has yet to manage a million+ lines of code program.  When he asked more detailed questions about typical trade off questions programmers make designing and developing large coding projects, it was immediately apparent the programmer had never worked on big projects before and was bluffing his way through with generalities that didn't really apply to the situation. 

Yet another: When he applied to Garmon part of the interview process involved writing actual code.  There was an applicant who got all the way through the interview but then walked out when he had to write code. Very basic code. He couldn't write code.  The guy applying for the programming job.

 

I wonder if this is because schools aren't training them well enough, or is this a skill that is more thoroughly learned on the job, or is it a career path that attracts a wide range of people but really requires people who are exceptional at math, or what?



#29 heartlikealion

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 12:36 PM

You can look at certain topics/posts under your username, but often I can't find what I'm looking for there, either. I think it only keeps track of the last few.



#30 Where's Toto?

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 12:56 PM

I usually search for terms to only appear in the title if I'm looking for posts about something, like math, but not a specific thread.   

 

What drives me nuts is that even the "My Content" doesn't always come up with everything I've posted, even very recently.   When I want to check on a thread I've posted on, I'll try that and about half the time the post I"m looking for doesn't come up.


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#31 goldberry

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 01:02 PM

My searches always seem to skip the most recent things and show only older things.  I've given up on using it mostly.


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#32 Tanaqui

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 02:27 PM

It's to give us all something to complain about besides politics.


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#33 scrapbookbuzz

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 04:20 PM

I have no answer for you. Just wanted to say that I understand your frustration!



#34 SamanthaCarter

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 06:27 PM

Its a conspiracy to keep the forums more active. Newer people keep needing to ask the older questions over again. ;)


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#35 PixieLittle

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:46 PM

I use the Text Replacement feature on my iPhone to help search this board. I set it up so that when I type "swtm" it replaces it with "site:welltrainedmind.com"
Much faster googling that way :)
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#36 Homeschool Mom in AZ

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 10:09 PM

I wonder if this is because schools aren't training them well enough, or is this a skill that is more thoroughly learned on the job, or is it a career path that attracts a wide range of people but really requires people who are exceptional at math, or what?

 

Most software programmers refuse to learn new computer languages.  Most engineering companies want interchangeable software programmers.  Because they refuse to update their skill sets and because companies often make the choices to use a language that isn't specifically well suited to the task because then your programmers aren't interchangeable, you get poorer quality help over all.  To give you a reference point, most know a few computer languages.  My husband is fluent in more than a dozen computer languages. 

Some companies don't have systems engineers at all so they design their systems with a more compartmentalized mindsets.  Then you have programmers who are almost exclusively detail oriented and inflexible by nature-not people who can even grasp the big picture.  A higher than average percentage of software guys have Aspergers and are terribly inflexible-a bad fit for over all design and delivery demands. 

Add to that the abominable writing and communication skills of your typical programmer and it's a huge pain.  You would be shocked at how many have degrees from universities like Purdue and Harvey Mudd (sp?) who can't write a coherent email or articulate thoughts. They can't ask relevant questions of clients to write sensible legal contracts for a project, they can't identify the main points of status updates from colleagues, they can't intuit the level of jargon appropriate for those they interact with who aren't programmers (project managers, general managers, and a customer using the finished product, someone from another company they're pitching an idea to,) etc.  Understanding what a client needs when a client doesn't have the technical skill or vocabulary of someone in that field is the norm.

When it comes to interacting with colleagues, the biggest problem is the ability to justify taking one approach over others in a reasonable way.  They can all give you a yes or no on whether they want to take a proposed approach, but when it comes to verbalizing the pros vs. the cons and why some pros should be weighted more heavily than the cons, it's like listening to preschoolers. They can't do it.

Their executive functioning skills are often very low.  Time management, prioritization, staying on task, and the like are usually so underdeveloped for an adult that it's embarrassing for any professional.    When it comes to debugging software, logic and record keeping are essential to systematically identify and correct root causes.  Most cannot (brace yourselves, folks) set up a simple experiment to isolate each factor and prove if it's a root cause or not.  People with science degrees from selective universities. Most are incredibly random and thoughtless in debugging.

It really is appalling. My husband is very good at those things, which is why they pay him to consult, design, and manage projects of all sorts, but most programmers don't have much beyond technical programming skill which is only a part of the job.
 


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#37 Dotwithaperiod

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 03:44 AM

I suppose the software programmer sucks, lol. It used to be quite decent. It's easier just to Google.

Edited by Dotwithaperiod, 14 August 2017 - 03:45 AM.


#38 J-rap

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 04:08 AM

Most software programmers refuse to learn new computer languages.  Most engineering companies want interchangeable software programmers.  Because they refuse to update their skill sets and because companies often make the choices to use a language that isn't specifically well suited to the task because then your programmers aren't interchangeable, you get poorer quality help over all.  To give you a reference point, most know a few computer languages.  My husband is fluent in more than a dozen computer languages. 

Some companies don't have systems engineers at all so they design their systems with a more compartmentalized mindsets.  Then you have programmers who are almost exclusively detail oriented and inflexible by nature-not people who can even grasp the big picture.  A higher than average percentage of software guys have Aspergers and are terribly inflexible-a bad fit for over all design and delivery demands. 

Add to that the abominable writing and communication skills of your typical programmer and it's a huge pain.  You would be shocked at how many have degrees from universities like Purdue and Harvey Mudd (sp?) who can't write a coherent email or articulate thoughts. They can't ask relevant questions of clients to write sensible legal contracts for a project, they can't identify the main points of status updates from colleagues, they can't intuit the level of jargon appropriate for those they interact with who aren't programmers (project managers, general managers, and a customer using the finished product, someone from another company they're pitching an idea to,) etc.  Understanding what a client needs when a client doesn't have the technical skill or vocabulary of someone in that field is the norm.

When it comes to interacting with colleagues, the biggest problem is the ability to justify taking one approach over others in a reasonable way.  They can all give you a yes or no on whether they want to take a proposed approach, but when it comes to verbalizing the pros vs. the cons and why some pros should be weighted more heavily than the cons, it's like listening to preschoolers. They can't do it.

Their executive functioning skills are often very low.  Time management, prioritization, staying on task, and the like are usually so underdeveloped for an adult that it's embarrassing for any professional.    When it comes to debugging software, logic and record keeping are essential to systematically identify and correct root causes.  Most cannot (brace yourselves, folks) set up a simple experiment to isolate each factor and prove if it's a root cause or not.  People with science degrees from selective universities. Most are incredibly random and thoughtless in debugging.

It really is appalling. My husband is very good at those things, which is why they pay him to consult, design, and manage projects of all sorts, but most programmers don't have much beyond technical programming skill which is only a part of the job.
 

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation.  That's a lot of food for thought.  Enough to start a new thread, perhaps, because now I have more questions...!