"Free-Range Kids" Long post...

[lionfamily1999]

Has anyone else read this book? I'm reading it now and it has me wondering how much I do, as a parent, is based in fear and how much is based in reality.

 

For instance:

 

There are no recorded cases of children ever having been poisoned by Halloween candy in the United States.

So, all that checking and fear was for.... no real reason at all.

 

1 in 1.5 million children are abducted and killed by strangers. The odds of an American child being kidnapped and killed by a stranger are .00007%.

IOW, my kids are more likely to experience horrible side effects from random over the counter drugs than they are to be kidnapped. Yet, this fear keeps me sitting on the porch whenever they go outside and verging on a heart attack whenever they, shudder, go play with their friends.

 

Three generations ago most parents were married teens.

I cannot imagine trusting a teenager to care for my kids... except my dd, and only when I'm within running distance. I couldn't imagine letting teens care for an infant, and I was a teen mom...

 

Crime rates nationally [for the USA] are at the same levels as they were in 1971.

It's SAFER for my kids to play outside, like I did, than it was for me.

 

 

Does anyone else feel like the paranoia police? I am a relaxed mom, some of the things my kids are allowed to do give other parents the willies, but I'm starting to feel like the most overprotective parent known to mankind. I also feel pretty rediculous for the majority of my fears. Would you let your 8yo go for a walk to the mailbox (2 blocks away and I can't see it from the house)? Or let your 12yo babysit? Would you let your 12yo sit for someone else?

 

Anyway, I'm trying to reevaluate. Anyone interested can respond, you don't have to have read the book (I strongly reccomend it, though). How "free-range" are your kids?

[JennifersLost]

Moving to a small town has helped. I'm still way more cautious than my parents were, but I'm less cautious than the other parents in California were. My older kids walk and ride their bikes all over town.

 

My youngest (7) is a girl, though, and I do worry....lots. She plays outside without my supervision in a one-block radius, but so far that's all.

 

I think our kids are going to be more timid and less adult than we were in many ways. They might be more likely to survive their teen years, but I don't know if they'll be better off for it as adults.

[lionfamily1999]

The author said we were creating a generation of skittish people.

 

I hate that my kids are so aware of all the incredibly horrible things that could happen and I am really hopeing we'll move to the point where we'll know the dangers, but enjoy life anyway, iykwIm.

 

Oh, and way to go with the camp-out! We camp a lot, but after some Animal Planet shows I begged off the last time. I really have to stop watching t.v. I understand that bears and wild cats (here it's cayotes and possibly bears, but none have been seen) are dangerous, but heck, we live here....... Even now, a million reasons why it's too dangerous for the kids to camp over night in the backyard are flooding my brain.

 

How do you undo this type of thinking?

[Delighted3]

but I often feel the same way.

Joy

[stripe]

I must confess that I am more worried about accidents than abductions. I suspect that any abductor of my child would be advised to read "The Ransom of Red Chief" first.

 

I have young children so I don't let them roam too much, BUT I am very much against the "don't talk to strangers!" routine. I never told my kids that but was incensed when I took my kids to story time at the library and, a small child who disturbed what my son was doing, said a few words to my son, and then said a very neutral "hi" to me as he walked by and was screeched at by the (obvious) daycare employee who was minding a large group to "Not talk to strangers!" -- as if she knows if I know him outside of daycare and as if I am some hideous danger or made any advance toward him (where would I have stored my kids while I ran off with him?!).

 

Unfortunately as a result my kids caught on (a bit) to the stranger business and sometimes go around identifying people as strangers. I am having to explain to them that they need to be alert to odd behavior, not someone in odd clothing or whatever, and at their age, they shouldn't be doing things with people by themselves, trust their instincts, and so on. Thanks for the recommendations I'd seen on here, I read Protecting the Gift" -- a great book with an emphasis on reality and preparation instead of hysteria. My husband and I are acutely aware of how family acquaintances can keep their pedophilia under wraps with shame/respect issues and I am sure we will both continue to discuss this as they get older.

 

I have also been annoyed by the behavior of my kids' pediatricians' office, distributing all this material about child safety that I consider bogus, and saying extraneous things to my child during an exam such as "It's okay that I'm looking at you here because I'm a doctor" -- I bet all the child molesters make similar justification; how about the fact that I'd previously told my child what to expect and was sitting right there?

[Barb_]

How "free-range" are your kids?

 

Very. They have the run of the neighborhood and always have. Dd was able to walk onto a college campus at age 14, buy her books, find her classes, etc. I believe her self-confidence has a lot to do with her being free to climb trees, visit friends, babysit, etc. I allow them to eat their halloween candy as they trick or treat and to take baked good from neighbors :D Kids need some space to work things out for themselves and test their own limits. A parent hovering nearby sends the message, "I can't trust you to figure things out on your own" even when that isn't the message the parent intends.

 

Barb

[DarlaS]

1 in 1.5 million children are abducted and killed by strangers.

 

Yes, far more are borrowed, molested, and returned by people they know. I still worry about my kids - and other people's too. It's one of the things I do best. :D. I may worry too much, but I still generally think they'll be ok.

 

Interesting about the Halloween candy though. I am definitely intrigued by this book.

[Carrie12345]

I'm always straddling the fence.

 

I can't wrap my kids in bubble wrap, but I still realize that those teeny tiny percentages represent real people who know a heartache I don't ever want to experience.

[lionfamily1999]

-- as if she knows if I know him outside of daycare and as if I am some hideous danger or made any advance toward him (where would I have stored my kids while I ran off with him?!).

-- I bet all the child molesters make similar justification; how about the fact that I'd previously told my child what to expect and was sitting right there?

That drove me nuts, until I told dd, after the doctor finished, 'even if someone says that, that doesn't mean it's okay. Check with me first.' Of course, having read your post... I have to wonder if that was the right response. (Visions of dd as an adult, feeling guilty or wrong, because she didn't ask Mom first)

I allow them to eat their halloween candy as they trick or treat and to take baked good from neighbors :D Barb

Yeah, in the book, they point out that the people with baked goods are the same people you wave you daily. IOW, these are your neighbors, they aren't pining away for Halloween night, just so they can poison your kids. I felt like such a goof that I needed that pointed out to me.

 

 

So, do you guys just not worry?

 

 

I really need to start trusting my kids.

[happygrrl]

We camp a lot, but after some Animal Planet shows I begged off the last time. I really have to stop watching t.v.

 

I think this is a key point. I notice a huge difference in my attitude between my country life (no television) and when we visit my mom for an extended time (lots of channels with new! scary! breaking news!)

[Highereducation]

Who is the author of this book? Is it the lady from NY who let her 9 yo ride the subway alone about a year ago? If so, I am intrigued by her and her ideas. People were threatening to call DYFS on her after she let her kid ride the subway. Even though I don't agree with all of her ideas, she raises many good points.

 

With respect to Halloween candy, though, the whole mess of Chinese quality control/chocolate ingredients threw a wrench in the works for us this past year. I was never worried about candy until I started to stress about the quality issues and exactly what might be in it. I didn't let dd eat much of it at all.

[joannqn]

I know that a lot of my parenting is based on fear. Then again, a lot of it is based on both my experience as a child (I was sexually molested for six years by a neighbor) and the neighborhood in which we live.

 

My older kids, ages 7 and 9, are not allowed outside to play alone. At the very least, they must go outside together and the must stay on our side of our block. I open the curtains and check on them through the window every couple of minutes. Most of the time, though, one of us grownups must go out with them as well. I will let a single child run to the car really fast to grab something but I worry while they are out their and start to panic if it takes them too long. My fear comes from the fact that Zina Linnick was kidnapped (and then murdered) from her backyard just 1 mile from my house, that we have three level 3 pedophiles within a mile of our house (and 55 level 2's and 1's), that a house I can see from my front door was a meth lab, that another house around the corner was a drug house, that a man was recently murdered a couple of blocks away, that my older neighbor was shoved/purse snatched 1/2 block away, that I saw a drive-by shooting 1 block away, and that there are drunks/druggies walking down our sidewalk on occasion.

 

I'm extremely worried about my children being at other people's houses without me. I'm very limiting about who they can visit and even more limiting about who they can spend the night with. My daughter has only spent the night at another person's house twice and my son once. I have to know the family very well and be surer than sure that my kids are safe.

 

As for your questions...

 

Would you let your 8yo go for a walk to the mailbox (2 blocks away and I can't see it from the house)? Absolutely not.

 

Or let your 12yo babysit? Stay home alone with siblings....maybe (we aren't there yet).

 

Would you let your 12yo sit for someone else? Probably not. I'm thinking more like 14-16 but not until after a babysitting course and first aid/CPR training.

 

So, no you aren't the only parent who is paranoid.

[Kathy in MD]

Has anyone else read this book? I'm reading it now and it has me wondering how much I do, as a parent, is based in fear and how much is based in reality.

 

For instance:

 

There are no recorded cases of children ever having been poisoned by Halloween candy in the United States.

So, all that checking and fear was for.... no real reason at all.

 

1 in 1.5 million children are abducted and killed by strangers. The odds of an American child being kidnapped and killed by a stranger are .00007%.

IOW, my kids are more likely to experience horrible side effects from random over the counter drugs than they are to be kidnapped. Yet, this fear keeps me sitting on the porch whenever they go outside and verging on a heart attack whenever they, shudder, go play with their friends.

 

Three generations ago most parents were married teens.

I cannot imagine trusting a teenager to care for my kids... except my dd, and only when I'm within running distance. I couldn't imagine letting teens care for an infant, and I was a teen mom...

 

Crime rates nationally [for the USA] are at the same levels as they were in 1971.

It's SAFER for my kids to play outside, like I did, than it was for me.

 

 

Does anyone else feel like the paranoia police? I am a relaxed mom, some of the things my kids are allowed to do give other parents the willies, but I'm starting to feel like the most overprotective parent known to mankind. I also feel pretty rediculous for the majority of my fears. Would you let your 8yo go for a walk to the mailbox (2 blocks away and I can't see it from the house)? Or let your 12yo babysit? Would you let your 12yo sit for someone else?

 

Anyway, I'm trying to reevaluate. Anyone interested can respond, you don't have to have read the book (I strongly reccomend it, though). How "free-range" are your kids?

 

Ds, 15, is pretty free range. I haven't gotten a bus pass for him yet, so he's limited by how far he can walk and bike. And that's limited by when he has to return to home.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I'm pretty fearful, but I TRY not to act on it. I have failed significantly. I would do differently with the next set of kids (if I had them). But I don't know if I could do as well as I'd LIKE. Like Carrie said, those percentages, though teeny tiny, represent real people with extreme heartache.

 

I did let my dd babysit (2 doors down, a group of preschoolers while their babysitter went to do bus run...about and hour and a half) at 12. My son was 11 when I left this one boy I watched with him (the mother was fine with that). It was short and because the baby was sleeping, but still. I know my kids are very capable of handling most things (keeping kids entertained, discipline, potty issues, etc). It does worry me a little. I would hate for something to happen when my kids were in charge.

[Danestress]

I worry about house fires, car wrecks, falling from high places, food poisoning.

 

I don't worry as much about stranger abduction, though I am one to keep an eye on my boys, even at 11.

 

My kids probably don't know some of the things that keep them from being really "free range." I don't project worry. But I wouldn't hire a 12 year old baby sitter on a bet. No way. And we don't do sleep overs, though part of it is just that when we do, they are cranky and miserable and it ruins the next day. I haven't let them do any overnight camps and I am always surprised that others do. I actually had a big discussion about this with a group of girl friends the other day. I was the only one who thought that maybe "Young Life" type trips weren't the best idea for 7th graders.

 

I don't check halloween candy and I do believe most people are good people who have a natural instinct to protect children. Still, my children are mine to protect and guard, and so I do to some extent. I feel most free when we are camping - I let them take out the canoe alone, fish alone, etc. I think time alone in the woods is one of God's greatest gifts, and I won't deny it to myself or my kids - I just make them take whistles.

 

So I guess mine are maybe half free range.

[Renee in NC]

It's funny - I was just talking to my dh about how differently we are about our dc than how we were reared.

 

I was babysitting every Friday and Saturday night for 2-6 children at age 12. I was in HIGH demand!

 

I rode the city bus (public transportation) to school at age 12.

 

When I was 9-10-11, we lived in a neighborhood. We all would go out in the mornings and not come back until the street lights came on. No one knew specifically where their own children were!

 

I did let my now 16yo babysit for short periods of time when he was 12. I'd leave him overnight with them now if I had to.

 

My dc are not allowed to leave our lot, but they are free to roam the woods as long as they can hear me if I call. When we move, the neighborhood will be better, but I am not likely to let them play unsupervised away from our yard still - we'll have to see. I think most of our neighbors will be elderly - we'll have to get to know them.

 

I let my now 16yo fly alone (including changing planes alone) when he was 12. It was fine until he was 15 and he missed his connecting flight - he swore he would never fly again LOL! Really, though, he'll get over it.

[dangermom]

I was babysitting absolute terror children at 12, and have no problem having a 12-yo over for babysitting. Right now we've had the same girl for several years, but she's a senior and I'm planning to switch to a friend of ours who is 12 or 13. At 14 they start going to dances, and are harder to get! By 16 they have a life and don't want to babysit so much any more.

 

I do have only two kids, and they're quite easy, so I don't have to worry much. Once my oldest is 12 or so I'll probably just let her do the babysitting. (I was watching my brothers for an hour or so when I was 8.)

 

My kid has serious nut allergies, so I do go through Halloween candy very carefully, but I've never worried about poison. I've known for a long time that poisoned candy is a myth. I am very paranoid about food, and I think that's spilled over into everything else. I'm always trying to relax and let go of the strings a little bit!

 

I'd let my 8-yo go to the mail, yes. My worry would be that she would get lost, so I'd have to trail her for a while to make sure she could do it. It's amazing to me how she will just go off in some random direction without looking to see if it's the right way; maybe that's because she's been too sheltered, or because she's my daughter--my mom was always exasperated by my complete lack of any sense of direction. I finally got one in college.

[abreakfromlife]

ooh, I'll have to look for that book. That sounds really good. I'm very free-range. I let my 3 yo play outside by himself, let my 2 yo play outside with my 8 yo, let my 6 and 8 yo go around the block by themselves - together - and they can spend the night places and started going to overnight camp when they are 6. I drop them off at soccer/baseball practice and just leave them......my MIL was *horrified* when we did that with dd. She actually drove an hour to come up and watch her at her practice. I was livid. Dh had a nice talk with her on that one :tongue_smilie:

 

I try to operate by facts, not emotions. Sometimes it's hard. But we just spend a lot of time researching things, looking at statistics, and deciding what is an acceptable risk to us. A lot of that comes out in health issues, too.

 

I try to remember that globally, kids do a lot more dangerous things and live in more dangerous habitats than I will probably ever know. I'd rather relax a little and live - b/c I could be very very protective and we could still all die in a car accident. I want to try and view the world as a fun place, not a scary place.

[snickelfritz]

When there is a case of a 5 year old playing in her front yard who was abducted by a stranger, m*lested, and dropped off n*ked on the street by your neighborhood.....it tends to make you wary of making the same "mistake" of letting your 5 year old play in your front yard by herself.

 

And I live in a *good* part of town with a disproportionate number of police officers who bring their cars home.

 

And I'm not sure that all of this is "so" new. I remember having the school councilors come talk to us about various things like abuse, stranger danger, not to take candy from strangers, etc... Maybe y'all are talking further back, but this would have been all through the '80s.

 

I do get what you are saying. It's just hard to find a balance.

[Joanne]

I've been saying and posting similar things on this forum for years about children playing outside, the "real" risks of abduction and molestation, etc. I post on the topic when using public restrooms, Halloween, babysitting and neighborhood play issues come up.

 

I personally observe a higher level of intensity among homeschoolers (and attachment parents) that I do not feel is always healthy for the kids. I have seen on this forum people post "you can't be too careful" or "you can't be too protective" but I believe you *can indeed* be too much of the above.

 

The answer then has become "better the risks of over protection than those of being a victim" but that's a red herring. The protection is coming from a place of inaccuracies.

 

I'd rather parents see the *real* risks such as family members, friends, teachers, Youth Pastors, Coaches.

 

If you want to protect your kids in today's world: Stay married (statistically abduction is related to divorce), don't ever make your child "kiss grandma" unless it's the child's idea, teach them to FIND strangers (moms with kids/strollers is the safest bet) if in trouble and don't teach the "be nice" protocol.

 

BTW, my kids have played in our neighborhoods since school age (in their sibling group or larger groups), now are allowed to go to local stores after asking and the older 2 children babysit others for pay. I've allowed them to use their gender-specific restroom since they have shown a preference to do so.

[Mekanamom]

Ah well... there is a difference between fear and common sense. My in-laws constantly tell me that I am a "paranoid parent", because I:

 

Chastised my MIL for taking my 2 year old and 3 year old off the property, without telling me, to walk down a country road with no sidewalks, without even holding their hands, while I witnessed a huge truck barreling down the road well over the speed limit. And her excuse? Oh, the girls always listen to me, they won't run into the road. They were 2 and 3 years old!! (This was 9 years ago, now.)

 

Because I said that was unsafe, my MIL throws the paranoid parent label at me every chance she gets. And to this day, some of the in-laws send us emails about how my kids should have more freedom. LOL. And they have no idea WHAT our rules are... they just assume based on MIL's comments.

 

Do the kids get to walk down the creek by themselves? Sure, with a cell phone and with at least one other person. Do they get the run of the neighborhood? No, there are no other kids here to play with anyway. Do they get to climb trees? Yes. Would the 12 year old get to go on riding trails without me? Sure, with at least one other buddy, a steady horse, and a cell phone. (And a riding helmet!!) Do they swim alone? Never!

 

Do I bother to defend myself or try to explain the difference between common sense and fear to the in-laws? Nope. It's none of their business anyway and really not worth an argument. They either had the chance to raise their own kids already, or will someday. :tongue_smilie:

 

ETA: My kids did NOT have the freedom they have now, when they were younger. And I wouldn't let my 8 (almost 9) yo walk down the creek with only another child her age. She is ok with her older sisters, but not mature enough on her own. I think a lot of the safety issue has to do with the maturity of the children, and that varies widely. Who better than the child's parent(s) to make that call? I think parents should listen to their own gut feelings.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Mekanamom

[elise1mds]

I guess I'm somewhere in the middle. I do not let the kids go wandering through the neighborhood, but like some others have mentioned, I am out in the country so there aren't really kids around here to play with and there certainly aren't sidewalks. The kids are allowed free rein in the fenced backyard (while I'm inside), and my 6yo is allowed to play in the front yard by himself. DD will be given that privilege when she turns 6. I let my son use public restrooms by himself. When we go to parks, I usually bring a book and sit back and check on them every 5 minutes or so just to make sure they're behaving (I don't want my kids to become the unsupervised bullies that I really can't stand... it would be somewhat hypocritical of me). I would probably let them babysit at the age of 12, though right now they're so young that's hard to really tell for sure.

 

On the other hand, I do insist that the kids stay VERY close to me while we're in crowded places like malls, and I have a heart attack every time my daughter tries to let go of my hand in a parking lot because I'm terrified she's going to run out in front of a car. I'm quite sure that at least the second scenario is completely irrational but I've got to give the kids SOME quirks, right? ;)

 

Definitely good food for thought...

[msjones]

There is a website called Free Range Kids. I'm having trouble linking from this computer, but I'm sure you can google it.

[TravelingChris]

I took that Myers Brigg test some time ago that was posted here and it said that my type tends to value independent kids and encourages that. That is absolutely true about me. My kids play outside. They ride their bikes. They have cell phones. They have been playing outside most of their lives. I had my 13 yo ride a bike a mile to church choir practices. (She is now 15 1/2). I sent my 15 year old on a flight to another country and then to college overseas at 16.

 

I don't have them doing things yet that I was doing at their age. By 15, I had been a 2 year rider of public transportation. I had been babysitting triplets and their older sister. I had walked alone to school by a busy highway. But no I am not super cautious. My youngest has broken a bone on a carpeted floor so I can't get too excited about scrambling on the hill and crossing the creek. I warn them about things that aren't obvious. I forbade them to play in arroyos when we lived out west. I forbade them from digging giant tunnels, caves, etc. I taught them about Walk, talk and die syndrome, etc, etc/ My stranger warnings have been along the lines of avoid people who act strange or give you the creeps and also a warning many times that if you go to a bar, party, etc. with people, you leave with them- not by yourself.

[Heather in Neverland]

I proudly admit that I am a protective mom. :D

 

Statistics do not comfort me, sorry to say. You can tell me that only 1 in 1 bazillion kids actually are kidnapped and murdered but, you know what, that statistic isn't of much comfort to the mother of that ONE child. And what makes you think (or me for that matter) that the mother of that ONE child won't be you (or me)? Do you think the moms whose children HAVE been abducted ever in a million years thought they would be they ONE in a bazillion? Of course not. No one ever thinks it will happen to them.

 

My children may play in the gated backyard and I check on them frequently but they may not play unsupervised in the front yard. Not only would I NOT let a 12yo babysit my child, my child will still have his own babysitter when he is 12. I also babysat when I was 12yo and although no children ever died under my watch, I certainly was not a good babysitter. I do not use anyone under 18yo.

 

I know I can't protect them from everything but I will do everything in my power to protect them from everything I can.

[OhM]

My kids play outside. They ride their bikes. They have cell phones. They have been playing outside most of their lives. I had my 13 yo ride a bike a mile to church choir practices. (She is now 15 1/2). I sent my 15 year old on a flight to another country and then to college overseas at 16.

 

 

We're similar here. Live in a small village (~300 residents). We've let them play outside on their own (backyard, within a privacy fence, and able to watch them through windows) since 3 or 4yo. They play out front now - together or with the neighbor girl, not alone. They can also walk to the local park or ride bikes around town - w/cell phones and checking in every 20 minutes or so.

 

Oldest dd has walked herself to school classes on her own. She also walks younger dd (9 at the time) to cheerleading practice on her own (less than 1/4 mile to the school, one block over).

 

I'm alot "free-er" than moms of dd's ps friends. I've been blasted for "dropping and running", rather than sitting and watching the 9yo's cheerleading practice w/the other moms. (I'm less than 5 minutes away!) And *really* chastised for letting older dd walk her over. (I would pick her up to make sure I had schedule info, etc.)

[Barb_]

I proudly admit that I am a protective mom. :D

...

I know I can't protect them from everything but I will do everything in my power to protect them from everything I can.

 

But at what cost? Not asked in a snarky tone, but genuinely curious. I believe too much of a good thing is still too much and that hovering that closely will eventually come back to haunt you either overtly, with sneaky and/or rebellious older children, or covertly in the form of insecurities, over dependency, timidity, and fearfulness out of proportion to the situation. Your thoughts?

 

Barb

Edited April 30, 2009 by Barb F. PA in AZ

[Jami]

I'm pretty pro-free range as much as I can be. I'm a laid back mom. I also grew up in a small town and from age 10 on could go just about anywhere in our town by bicycle as long as someone knew where I was going. When we lived in urban St. Louis I let my kids play alone in the fenced backyard in both houses we lived in, from age 3 or so on. Now in suburban DFW, I let them play in the front or back for hours. They know the rules. They stick together. I like giving them freedom when I can appropriate for their ages.

 

:)

 

ETA: Babysitters would be a case by case basis. We had a neighbor girl/daughter of a friend in St. Louis who was fantastic with kids. Very responsible. She did some mother's helper things for me at age 11 or so and by 12/13 she was plenty responsible to watch our kids during a dinner out. We have a sitter here who is 14 or so, again, she's awesome. I have a 12 year old nephew who is the oldest of 6 and I'd let him watch my kids for an hour or two no problem.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Jami

[Heather in Neverland]

But at what cost? Not asked in a snarky tone, but genuinely curious. I believe to much of a good thing is still too much and that hovering that closely will eventually come back to haunt you either overtly, with sneaky and/or rebellious older children, or covertly in the form of insecurities, over dependency, timidity, and fearfulness out of proportion to the situation. Your thoughts?

 

Barb

 

Well, to be honest, I would rather have a timid child than not have a child at all because he was abducted. And that is not snarky either, that is how I truly feel. So far my 11yo ds is not timid at all and still is not as safety conscious as I'd like him to be but he knows that this is a dangerous world and has what I would call the "gift of a healthy fear". He is taught not to underestimate a situation. He is in karate classes to learn how to protect himself if need be. He is taught to be aware of his surroundings at all times. I am not teaching him to be afraid but to be aware. And he is a confident, out-spoken child. So far, so good. Letting him play in the front yard without supervision is not going to increase his self-confidence, IMHO.

[Karen sn]

Awesome statistics.

Thanks for sharing that.

 

When we lived in a one block neighborhood

and we had 3 Sheriff's Deputies

and everyone was related

and most were old -

my 10yo dd ran wild in a pack of kids. It was wonderful.

She was free range with check in every 2 hours.

 

Now she is almost 12 and we have moved away from our neighborhood kids. :-(

She is less inclined to wander here because she has no friends - and without the pack, I am inclined to keep her close to home.

 

I miss my old neighborhood.

All the kids were real sweet and well behaved except for one, and his were minor offenses that were easily managed.

 

In a pack of good kids - my kid runs free.

But alone or with bad kids - I don't let her go far.

 

I will check out the book you mentioned.

[Mom0012]

I always struggle to give my kids freedom and not hover, but I have to admit I am fearful that I will make a "mistake" and something horrible will happen. I wonder why this seems to be so much more common in my generation? I roamed wherever I liked as a kid and I don't think my mother ever worried.

 

Right now, I'm trying to decide whether it's safe for my son to go in the backyard and play. There was a fox hanging out there for quite a while yesterday and now I'm worried it will come back while he's out there. I'm not sure whether that should make me nervous or not, but it does. I'm sure the recent discussion on the pit bull attack are coloring my feelings on this.

 

Lisa

Edited April 30, 2009 by LisaTheresa

[Danestress]

are more "free range MOMS"

 

Which is to say Moms that want to take kids on bike rides, go on hikes, go camping and fishing etc. I have so much fun with my boys when we play outside, and I do actually feel safer letting them have more freedom when we are camping than I do at home. They enjoy that freedom. And I think that teaching my boys to do your basic wilderness survival stuff has been a huge confidence builder, a lot of fun, and a chance for them to feel free when I'm still sort of around.

 

Do you know what ages are highest risk for stranger abduction? The older they are, the higher the risk, right up to age 18. Which means that if we REALLY want to protect our children, we have to micromanage the 16 year olds and not let THEM play alone outside. I doubt that's going to happen.

 

So perhaps we need some combination of teaching our children to be savvy and think fast in a scary situation, vigilance on our own parts, and a willingness to participate in the creek exploring wonder of childhood.

[TCoppock]

I know I am OVER protective.

 

When I was in high school a friend's brother was kidnapped, molested, and murdered and that left a lasting impression. This happened in a good neighborhood while he was walking home from his bus stop. (blocks away from his home)

 

I know statisically my concerns aren't rational, but it doesn't change the fear.

[LatinLover]

My best friend was raped in our apartment when we were roommates. I have a couple of friends who were nabbed, beaten and unceremoniously left for dead. My 4.5 yo dd was touched 'down there' by an older boy at the playground of a fast food restaurant yesterday afternoon while attending a birthday party - he was not part of the party. Unfortunately for dd, I believe I'll hover for awhile.

 

BTW, I've been reading this forum for years and this thread finally moved me to chime in. Glad to be here!

 

LL

[Laura Corin]

How "free-range" are your kids?

 

My boys set off regularly to a nearby wood (about half a mile away) and play on their own there for hours at a time. I worry occasionally about one of them falling out of a tree and not being able to get home, but not about abduction, etc.

 

Laura

[Jill- OK]

...there are things I let my kids do that probably freak other folks out, and things I'm skittish about that most everyone else (it seems) is okay with.

 

::Shrug::

 

Someone mentioned common sense. I think using common sense is good. I think rationally evaluating statistics is good. I think a little bit of following your instincts is good. (I have OCD, so many of my 'instincts' are broken, and I have to consciously act against them a lot of the time...but for most 'normal' people, lol, I think following your gut feeling--even if it goes against the crowd or statistics--is just fine).

 

I think that the feeling of freedom is good for kids. Even small kids. A lot of the so-called 'free ranging' my kids do is probably somewhat of an illusion. :-) If you watch my kids go out the back door, by themselves, and into our woods...it looks as if they're being swallowed up by the great outdoors. It feels like it, to them. But in reality...there are very definite, semi-protected borders on two sides, and I can see the other two from the house.

 

The freedom I give them in other places is similar, so I guess I'm sort of a "split the difference" parent, lol. I believe it's good for them to feel as if they're doing quite a bit on their own, and I honestly do let them do a good bit on their own.

 

But many times I'm watching, or controlling certain circumstances from the background.

 

And I have zero problem letting my two teens babysit my kids, or our neighbor's toddler. They've both taken the Red Cross course, at twelve years of age, and could probably do a better job than most adults, lol. Overnight, or if we're in another town, I like to have a twentysomething friend or older adult family member there, but that's not often. When they were twelve, it was only for short periods of time, with a toddler (not an infant), when we were within minutes of home, but now we leave them for an evening or afternoon quite often. (Three younger siblings).

 

In fact, I'm more of this mindset with teens than I am littles. It's true that historically teens were given much more responsibility, much earlier, and I have a strong belief in keeping a balance of responsibility and privilege for teens, to forestall any feelings of being thwarted on the path to adulthood. I let them make decisions that many of my peers probably wouldn't allow their teens to make, many times, simply because I want to give them opportunities to take chances, and make mistakes (get messy! lol!) while they're with us. That way, they're learning opportunities...and not life-altering missteps, hopefully.

[Guest Katia]

But at what cost? Not asked in a snarky tone, but genuinely curious. I believe too much of a good thing is still too much and that hovering that closely will eventually come back to haunt you either overtly, with sneaky and/or rebellious older children, or covertly in the form of insecurities, over dependency, timidity, and fearfulness out of proportion to the situation. Your thoughts?

 

Barb

 

Barb, I know you didn't address any of these questions to me, but rather to Heather...however I'd like to chime in from my vantage point of old-age and now adult children.

 

First of all, I'd like to address Heather: Your post was like a breath of fresh air! You are a protective, attachment parent after my own heart! You rock!

 

To Barb: I am going on 50yo. My three dc are 24yo, 19yo and 17yo. I have been a very, extremely protective/attachment parent through all of their growing up years.

 

You ask as what cost? Well....I have well protected children! They grew up happy and healthy . So far none of them have been either sneaky or rebellious. Oldest ds has graduated from college. He went to community college at 15-18yo.....went to two different 4-yr universities....I didn't go with him, lol! Oldest dd is at college this year....she has been one of my closest friends....still calls me once a week to let me know she's still alive (she says her other friends call their moms all.the.time. Daily!) Youngest is now auditing a few cc classes (on her own).

 

They are not insecure, over dependent or timid. They *do* call and ask my advice on some matters.....but.....being an over-protective parent also means knowing when to let them go.

 

I get the feeling that you think because I or Heather are so very protective of our precious gifts (dc) that somehow we will be holding there hands and wiping their bu**s at college, lol! Nope. Doesn't work that way.

 

But I will tell you that I was totally and completely involved in absolutely every aspect of their lives until they were old enough to do things on their own...and that maturity level was reached at different times by different children, but because I knew them so intimately I "knew" when they were ready.

 

And I still keep very involved with my just-turned 17yo at her cc classes. I keep in constant contact with her professors. They knew I would when I enrolled her because I talked to them first....and they are 'ok' with that.

 

As long as they are minor children they are completely and totally under my care and protection. Completely. And I take that very seriously.

 

The result is that I have well-rounded, happy, competent adult children that love to be with my dh and me. We are very close. Oh, they have their friends that they do things with too....but we are not left out!

 

In my personal experience, your questions and fears have not been borne out and are groundless. And believe me, there were plenty of people in our extended families that thought as you do and were very vocal about sharing their opinions. But that is just what they were: opinions; not facts.

 

Protective and attached is good. It gives young children the security to reach out knowing that mom or dad are there for them. We won't just disappear. That security is something children need and crave.

 

The proof, as my dh is always saying....is in the pudding (out-come).

[Jill- OK]

Protective and attached is good. It gives young children the security to reach out knowing that mom or dad are there for them. We won't just disappear. That security is something children need and crave.

 

The proof, as my dh is always saying....is in the pudding (out-come).

 

...is the same, for those who consider themselves "free range" and those who would classify themselves as "overprotective". As I said...I don't think I fit neatly into either of those categories, and I have a feeling that there's a bunch of overlap between folks on this issue, without realizing it.

 

I believe, personally, that individual personalities have quite a bit to do with how someone 'turns out'. I can't remember where I read it, but there was a study within the last few years that pointed more towards 'nature' than 'nurture', as scientific evidence that a lot of what we take so seriously...may not matter.

 

Not that I believe that, totally...but I do believe that many times, we give ourselves either too much or too little credit, lol, when it comes to how our children turn out.

 

What's good for one personality type may not be right for another. I don't know how much of my anxiety issues and OCD is 'nature', and how much was 'nurture'...but I can tell you that I was absolutely overprotected, and many of my pet issues have to do with fear-based conceptions, that could be directly connected to practices in my family. Would I have had 'issues' anyway? Maybe. But could they have been lessened, or rooted in something less dramatic, if my home atmosphere had been different? If my parents/grandparents had nurtured fearlessness a little more? Maybe. I'll probably never know. But I do think it's worth thinking about.

 

I guess I'm saying that these things aren't always identical, across the board. Someone here could be hawkish, and raise well-balanced kids, and probably credit their approach with the outcome...when someone else could be doing the same things, with a completely different child...and not seeing signs of fears/timidity being created.

 

And yet another person could be letting their child do all manner of things that would bug the eyes of many here...and still be attached, and protective.

 

Those things don't fit a neat definition all the time.

 

(JMO...this isn't a rebuttal, per se...just some thoughts that ended up here, under this post.)

[Barb_]

They are not insecure, over dependent or timid. They *do* call and ask my advice on some matters.....but.....being an over-protective parent also means knowing when to let them go.

 

Actually, I think maybe we have a confusion of terms. Being an over-protective parent (as opposed to an attached parent), by definition, means NOT knowing when to let them go. Security comes from attachment, as you noted above. Independence comes from a place of security. As Jill pointed out, security can be fostered in either parenting style as long as the style matches the personality of the children. However, I think it's nearly impossible to raise a self-confident child when one is parenting from a perspective of fear (which it doesn't sound like you were). Everyone has her own comfort zone as to how much rope they will allow and in reality, almost all of those kids will thrive. I'm questioning the assertion that a child who is taught that the world is a dangerous place is better off for it.

 

Example, my great-grandmother was irrationally terrified of storms. Statistically, it's possible to be struck by lightening indoors, particularly in Florida, but the chances of that happening are roughly nil. But whenever a thunderstorm would blow up, she would take me and go hide in her bedroom huddled under the covers until it was over. I still hyperventilate and feel irrational panic during thunderstorms to this day. My point is, we can pass on our fears to our children. I think it's important to examine the reasons for our protectiveness. Is it for our kids' sake, or is it for ours?

 

Barb

Edited April 30, 2009 by Barb F. PA in AZ

[Jill- OK]

I don't much worry about the coyotes--they're too busy killing the sheep to bother the children...

 

That said, there ARE homes where my children do not go.

 

And I agreed with another hsing mom that didn't allow her 14yodd to head off to a week long camping trip for the climbing team--with NO ADULT FEMALE along! Are they nuts???? I think we can be cautious without being crazy.

 

You and I sound like we're cut from a similar cloth, lol. :-) I'm less bothered by the coyote/roaming dog/snake threat than I am certain people. I'll let my 8yo, 7yo, and 4yo go to the pond (not drowning depth) by themselves...but I won't let them spend the night with anyone but family.

 

And I've let my 15yo head off for trips that have made others shake their heads...but without an adult female?!?! Nope.

[Jill- OK]

She is less inclined to wander here because she has no friends - and without the pack, I am inclined to keep her close to home.

 

In a pack of good kids - my kid runs free.

But alone or with bad kids - I don't let her go far.

 

In all my other responses to this thread, everyone needs to keep in mind that I have a pack of kids, lol.

 

The Littles that trek into the woods/run wild with the neighbor kids have bigger siblings that can be sent to spot them, periodically.

 

When my fifteen year old daughter rode her bike to church...her fourteen year old brother (who is taller/bigger than she is), was with her.

 

When the two oldest roamed our urban neighborhood, kayaked from a neighbor's dock, etc...they were together.

 

I can't address how I would parent if I had an only/two kids, so I hope that all my comments are taken as the POV of someone who has a built-in "Buddy System" for her kids.

 

After reading Karen's post, I believe that makes a difference in some of my thinking. Maybe not all...but some of it.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Jill, OK

[chaik76]

Has anyone else read this book? I'm reading it now and it has me wondering how much I do, as a parent, is based in fear and how much is based in reality.

 

For instance:

 

There are no recorded cases of children ever having been poisoned by Halloween candy in the United States.

So, all that checking and fear was for.... no real reason at all.

 

1 in 1.5 million children are abducted and killed by strangers. The odds of an American child being kidnapped and killed by a stranger are .00007%.

IOW, my kids are more likely to experience horrible side effects from random over the counter drugs than they are to be kidnapped. Yet, this fear keeps me sitting on the porch whenever they go outside and verging on a heart attack whenever they, shudder, go play with their friends.

 

Three generations ago most parents were married teens.

I cannot imagine trusting a teenager to care for my kids... except my dd, and only when I'm within running distance. I couldn't imagine letting teens care for an infant, and I was a teen mom...

 

Crime rates nationally [for the USA] are at the same levels as they were in 1971.

It's SAFER for my kids to play outside, like I did, than it was for me.

 

 

Does anyone else feel like the paranoia police? I am a relaxed mom, some of the things my kids are allowed to do give other parents the willies, but I'm starting to feel like the most overprotective parent known to mankind. I also feel pretty rediculous for the majority of my fears. Would you let your 8yo go for a walk to the mailbox (2 blocks away and I can't see it from the house)? Or let your 12yo babysit? Would you let your 12yo sit for someone else?

 

Anyway, I'm trying to reevaluate. Anyone interested can respond, you don't have to have read the book (I strongly reccomend it, though). How "free-range" are your kids?

I was already aware of the statistics you are quoting, and honestly I'm not very paranoid when it comes to my kids. I send them outside alone, I don't worry about Halloween candy, etc. Most people think I'm nuts because I'm so laid back

[Rosie_0801]

My mother was a fear based parent and not at all logical about it. I was allowed to catch two buses to school from year 7, including sitting at the bus stop by myself for up to half an hour, but wasn't allowed to walk to the local shop until year 9. It was a difference of about 18km! I only went out unsupervised by adults with friends once during my teen years because the rules Mum laid down were so embarrassingly strict, it was too much trouble. Then I got into trouble for not going out, lol. With all that, I'm not sure what kind of parent I'm going to turn out to be, but for the moment other people spin out about how free range I am with Miss 2. She was allowed to *shock* go down the big slide herself at aged 18 months! Well, she did so at the park with us and her grandparents when all four of us weren't looking for the same 20 seconds. No point worrying afterwards, huh? I rarely worry about her falling, because she knows what her body can and can't do. She is so much more confident and safer on the playground that 95% of other kids her age we see down there. There's a bigger risk of her losing her shoes than hurting herself, lol.

 

Rosie- glad to read this thread and find it's not inevitable that I'll turn out like my mother!

[Joanne]

Katia,

 

Your (lovely) response doesn't speak to my understanding of the content of this thread.

 

I, too, am an attachment parent and stay unapolgetically involved in every aspect of my children's lives. I heard the same "concerns" regarding my attachment choices.

 

While I don't think it absolutely guarantees non rebellion and the closeness you describe, I know it does not create insecurity and other "over attachment" issues some adults are concerned with.

 

However, the content of this thread speaks to misapplication of security/safety risks based on perceptions of crime, safety of children and risks to them.

 

A separate but related issue.

[Jami]

In all my other responses to this thread, everyone needs to keep in mind that I have a pack of kids, lol.

 

The Littles that trek into the woods/run wild with the neighbor kids have bigger siblings that can be sent to spot them, periodically.

 

When my fifteen year old daughter rode her bike to church...her fourteen year old brother (who is taller/bigger than she is), was with her.

 

When the two oldest roamed our urban neighborhood, kayaked from a neighbor's dock, etc...they were together.

 

I can't address how I would parent if I had an only/two kids, so I hope that all my comments are taken as the POV of someone who has a built-in "Buddy System" for her kids.

 

After reading Karen's post, I believe that makes a difference in some of my thinking. Maybe not all...but some of it.

 

That's a good point, Jill. Mine are close in age (well except the tagalong baby) and are together at parks, in the yard, etc. I think that makes a big difference.

[joannqn]

Barb, I know you didn't address any of these questions to me, but rather to Heather...however I'd like to chime in from my vantage point of old-age and now adult children.

 

First of all, I'd like to address Heather: Your post was like a breath of fresh air! You are a protective, attachment parent after my own heart! You rock!

 

To Barb: I am going on 50yo. My three dc are 24yo, 19yo and 17yo. I have been a very, extremely protective/attachment parent through all of their growing up years.

 

You ask as what cost? Well....I have well protected children! They grew up happy and healthy . So far none of them have been either sneaky or rebellious. Oldest ds has graduated from college. He went to community college at 15-18yo.....went to two different 4-yr universities....I didn't go with him, lol! Oldest dd is at college this year....she has been one of my closest friends....still calls me once a week to let me know she's still alive (she says her other friends call their moms all.the.time. Daily!) Youngest is now auditing a few cc classes (on her own).

 

They are not insecure, over dependent or timid. They *do* call and ask my advice on some matters.....but.....being an over-protective parent also means knowing when to let them go.

 

I get the feeling that you think because I or Heather are so very protective of our precious gifts (dc) that somehow we will be holding there hands and wiping their bu**s at college, lol! Nope. Doesn't work that way.

 

But I will tell you that I was totally and completely involved in absolutely every aspect of their lives until they were old enough to do things on their own...and that maturity level was reached at different times by different children, but because I knew them so intimately I "knew" when they were ready.

 

And I still keep very involved with my just-turned 17yo at her cc classes. I keep in constant contact with her professors. They knew I would when I enrolled her because I talked to them first....and they are 'ok' with that.

 

As long as they are minor children they are completely and totally under my care and protection. Completely. And I take that very seriously.

 

The result is that I have well-rounded, happy, competent adult children that love to be with my dh and me. We are very close. Oh, they have their friends that they do things with too....but we are not left out!

 

In my personal experience, your questions and fears have not been borne out and are groundless. And believe me, there were plenty of people in our extended families that thought as you do and were very vocal about sharing their opinions. But that is just what they were: opinions; not facts.

 

Protective and attached is good. It gives young children the security to reach out knowing that mom or dad are there for them. We won't just disappear. That security is something children need and crave.

 

The proof, as my dh is always saying....is in the pudding (out-come).

 

Excellent! I am of the same mindset as you. I've seen the early fears that some have expressed about attachment parenting have not come true so I expect the latter ones won't either. Yes, my co-sleeping children did leave my bed. No, my children do not cry when I leave them somewhere. Yes, I do believe that they will become confident, capable adults when they grow up even though I protect them now when they are young.

[Barb_]

Excellent! I am of the same mindset as you. I've seen the early fears that some have expressed about attachment parenting have not come true so I expect the latter ones won't either. Yes, my co-sleeping children did leave my bed. No, my children do not cry when I leave them somewhere. Yes, I do believe that they will become confident, capable adults when they grow up even though I protect them now when they are young.

 

Attachment parenting and fear-based over-protectiveness are two different things. We shouldn't lump the two together.

 

Barb

[Heather in Neverland]

Attachment parenting and fear-based over-protectiveness are two different things. We shouldn't lump the two together.

 

Barb

 

I guess my answer would be somewhere in the middle. I do not consider myself "fear-based overprotective". I consider myself "realistic about the world and its dangers and wanting to raise my children to protect themselves."

 

For instance, I have a friend who does NOT teach her child about stranger danger at all because she doesn't want them to know that there are those kinds of people out there. She doesn't teach them about it BECAUSE she is afraid of "scaring" them. I think that is irresponsible.

 

Also, parenting can be very situational. When we lived in the boonies of NC, our children had more freedom to roam and we let them. But to let them walk a few blocks down the street unsupervised in Metro Detroit is reckless parenting not free range parenting.

 

Some parents just don't have the luxury of free range parenting.

[Impish]

:iagree:While I'm not an attachment parent (sort of a happy blend of what works for us...no label fits, lol!) I totally agree. Huge difference btwn attachment parenting and fear based hovering. Attachment is based on what the CHILD needs, fear based is based on what the PARENT needs.

[Danestress]

related, but different.

 

Not allowing a 14 year old to play alone in the yard isn't attachment parenting. It's fear based parenting, and it probably does a disservice to the child, though I think most of us can relate to having that fear and wanting to lock our children up to keep them safe. But that's about our need for control - not about what is truly best for them.