Am I unrealistic/unreasonable/out of my mothering mind?

[msjones]

I believe it is reasonable for me to expect the following from my 7 year-old and 9 year-old boys in the mornings:

 

1)Clear all dishes after breakfast, rinse dishes, and put into dishwasher.

 

2) Get dressed, make bed.

 

3) Put pajamas and any other clothing away.

 

4)Brush teeth, wash face, comb hair. Or, shower and comb hair (for my older). Put toothbrush, toothpaste, comb away in drawer.

 

5)Complete one additional chore as indicated by daily chore chart (i.e. wipe down bathroom, vacuum playroom, take out recycling).

 

They have been taught (repeatedly) how to do each of these things. The list of expected chores is posted. The same tasks have been required daily for at least a year. They have no learning disabilities or out-of-the-ordinary behavioral issues.

 

While they never refuse to do what they are asked/told, they almost never complete all of these things without some kind of reminder/threat/supervision from me. They get started and wind up wrestling or laying on the floor or who-knows-what. They never argue, or even complain. They just don't complete these tasks without threats or supervision.

 

Kind gentle reminders get no results. Threats and direct supervision do.

 

I think they should be able to do these things consistently and independently. But they don't. I don't want to threaten, and don't think they should have to NEED supervision at these ages.

 

So, in your opinion, who and/or what is the problem here? Am I unrealistic?I am open to all ideas, opinions, suggestions. This is making me crazy.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I think it is rare (but not impossible) for kids that age to be able to have the self-discipline to do all of that without supervision. Perhaps they need a carrot dangled in front of them to encourage more initiative. If you allow TV or computer time, perhaps they could earn their 30-minute coupon by completing said tasks by your deadline. If they accomplish it so many days in the week, then they could get rewarded with another treat - out for ice cream or a game of bowling or whatever fun, inexpensive treat that you find acceptible. If you are trying to change behavior, you need to change your strategy.

[Lawana]

In my experience, it is the unusual child who will complete these tasks independently at 7 and 9 and even older. While I think the things you've outlined for them to do are very reasonable, independence in completing them is a different story. When you think about it from their perspective, they really don't have any internal motivation to do them. They most likely don't care if their clothes are picked up, dishes put away, teeth are brushed. You care- they don't. So it's a matter of training and repetition and more repetition and maybe behavioral methods if that suits you. And some kids don't ever really care as long as they have someone else to care for them:glare:.

 

Good luck,

Lawana

[Ria]

I think those are extremely unrealistic expectations for children of those ages.

 

Ria

[kalanamak]

I did 1-4 at that age, although it wasn't putting in the dishwasher, but setting the table as well. I didn't have to remake the bed after stripping for wash until I was 9. I don't recall any threats or ever forgetting. My mother was very much on a timetable, however, and we woke, ate, left the house, had dinner, bed at EXACT times. Dinner was 6 sharp for over 50 years in her house.

I was the caboose, and I could never get my mother to tell me what she did to get all the other cars (a pack of boys) in line before I came along. I suspect austerity, rigid timetable, and 100% agreement between my parents went a long way.

[Plucky]

Just keep training them. It takes a long time. My teens can do it now but it's taken years of training and consistency. My younger two, 8 & 10, still walk around like they are following a delightful butterfly only they can see. I have to come alongside them frequently and keep them on task in most of what they do. I feel your pain.

[Hillary in KS]

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect them to do those things, but I think they're kind of young to expect them to do them all independently. You do need to guide them, but try to find a way that doesn't involve standing over them and threatening them.

 

Can you isolate what exactly causes things to break down? Do they have a set order, or are the boys just expected to figure out what to do next? Do they all have to be done before school? Or could one or two tasks be done during their first break? Do they start off well, but then get distracted? What's the distraction? Do they respond to your threats? Or do they ignore them because they're empty?

 

**I'm assuming, based on what you wrote, that they start tasks but then get distracted by goofing off together. Can you have them do their chores separately? That way they won't be distracting each other.

 

Boy A does the tasks in his room first, while Boy B does tasks in the kitchen (or other parts of the house). When they're done, they switch.

 

**How about eliminating some chaos? Can you make them each a flow chart? Use pictures or drawings to show them what to do next? That way they have a clear, linear chart to tell them what to do next.

 

Boy A: Clear dishes. Brush teeth. Wash face. Comb hair. Extra chore. (and so on)

 

 

** They'll need something to help them keep it moving. Maybe a time-limit? Give them plenty of extra time at first, and then as they improve, shorten the time. What can they do when they're finished before the time is up? A sticker on a chart? A coupon for 10 extra minutes of computer time that day? A coupon for an extra 5 minutes to read before lights out? Keep it small and low-maintenance, but you'll know what they'll like. Eventually you can phase out the rewards.

 

** You will need to supervise them as you're teaching them any new routine, but don't threaten them. Let the timer be the bad guy. Calmly remind them (occasionally) "There are 10 minutes left on the timer!" Whatever consequence you set for NOT finishing before the timer, follow through. (When we did something similar, the child had to lay on his bed for X minutes after school, before his "free time" could start. they *hated* listening to their brothers start playing when they had to lie on their bed! :)

 

 

** Something I used with great success to help the kids learn their morning routines, was our morning chore CD. I picked 3 or 4 peppy, upbeat songs. Before each song I recorded my directions. "OK. During this song, Boy A needs to do his bathroom chores. Boy B needs to take care of his dishes and a kitchen chore. Boy C needs to make his bed and get dressed. " The song would play while they worked. They had to be back at the table by the time the song ended." We did this until they knew their routines. It was a fun way to start the day! :)

Edited March 8, 2009 by Hillary in KS

[msjones]

I think it is rare (but not impossible) for kids that age to be able to have the self-discipline to do all of that without supervision. Perhaps they need a carrot dangled in front of them to encourage more initiative. If you allow TV or computer time, perhaps they could earn their 30-minute coupon by completing said tasks by your deadline. If they accomplish it so many days in the week, then they could get rewarded with another treat - out for ice cream or a game of bowling or whatever fun, inexpensive treat that you find acceptible. If you are trying to change behavior, you need to change your strategy.

 

I agree with needing to change my strategy. We have changed it quite a few times, but obviously haven't found what will work consistently yet.

 

I think the truth may be that I just need to keep supervising. So, my behavior needs changing too.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

While each item on the list is well within their ability, it is a mighty long list. 14 things is a lot of things to remember, especially if they have no internal motive to remember.

 

I, as an adult, hate the feel of my mouth in the morning, so I have no trouble remembering to brush my teeth. My bed, however, doesn't bother me nearly as much, so I frequently forget to make (actually, I just choose not to). Most children don't have their own, internal reasons to remember all the things that their mom thinks is important. Their only reason to do those things is because Mom tells them to. It sounds like the only reason your boys have to do their lists is to stop you from having a melt-down. :)

 

While I don't endorse rewards for every little thing, I do think they have their place, as a temporary incentive in helping a child to get over a developmental hurdle. Your boys need to internalize the benefits of cleanliness. Once they do, they will naturally keep order around them. It will become a habit. This may take a V E R Y L O N G T I M E. Until then, they may need external incentives to help them develop the habits you want to instill. Simply posting the list(s) won't cause them to ever look at the list. They need a reason to look at it, and to read it, and to implement it.

 

Dirty Ethel mentioned a reward system. I am terrible at implementing systems, but they work really for some people. Sticker charts work well for lots of kids. Tying in allowance or other rewards for a full chart is helpful.

 

It might help to have a few different (shorter) lists (Bathroom List, Bedroom List, Kitchen List, Extra Chore), so that the list doesn't seem so daunting.

 

Then, you might just say "Did you do your Bedroom List?" When they've done it, they get to put a sticker on their chart. If they get stickers for all their lists for that morning, they can have a cookie after lunch. If they get all their stickers for the week, they get to go bowling or something on the weekend.

 

Of course, these are just suggestions. You would need to figure out a system that works for you.

 

Oh, another system that might work is a token system. You could have a jar of tokens (nickels or something) and give each boy a certain number of tokens in the morning (15 would be good, since you have 14 items on their list). Then, if you have to remind them to do anything on their lists, you remove a token from their jar. Each day, maybe at lunch time, they record how many tokens they had left in their jar. At the end of the week, you could reward them based on the tokens they kept each day (over 70 = bowling, over 65 = pick a DVD, over 60 = whatever). Come up with these rewards in advance so that they have something to work towards.

 

Good luck!

Suzanne

[msjones]

In my experience, it is the unusual child who will complete these tasks independently at 7 and 9 and even older. While I think the things you've outlined for them to do are very reasonable, independence in completing them is a different story. When you think about it from their perspective, they really don't have any internal motivation to do them. They most likely don't care if their clothes are picked up, dishes put away, teeth are brushed. You care- they don't. So it's a matter of training and repetition and more repetition and maybe behavioral methods if that suits you. And some kids don't ever really care as long as they have someone else to care for them:glare:.

 

Good luck,

Lawana

 

Well, you're certainly right that it's me who cares -- not them. But, darn it! I want to MAKE them care! And, darn it, I want them to be independent NOW, because, the sad truth is, I'm tired of the repetition.

 

So, it's helpful to hear your wise words. Thank you.

[msjones]

I think those are extremely unrealistic expectations for children of those ages.

 

Ria

 

Which parts do you find unrealistic? The tasks themselves? Or the doing them without frequent adult intervention?

[msjones]

I did 1-4 at that age, although it wasn't putting in the dishwasher, but setting the table as well. I didn't have to remake the bed after stripping for wash until I was 9. I don't recall any threats or ever forgetting. My mother was very much on a timetable, however, and we woke, ate, left the house, had dinner, bed at EXACT times. Dinner was 6 sharp for over 50 years in her house.

I was the caboose, and I could never get my mother to tell me what she did to get all the other cars (a pack of boys) in line before I came along. I suspect austerity, rigid timetable, and 100% agreement between my parents went a long way.

 

My 'bed-making' expectations are about as low as they could be while still calling it 'bed-making.' ;) All they are required to do is pull up their comforters and get the pillows at the tops of their beds.

 

Maybe your mom should write a book. I would buy it!

[sunshine]

I think they can probably do that but I know they would need to be told after each task is done to do the next. Every time. I wouldn't expect them to remember it all. I can barely remember why I walked into a room sometimes. Especially if I slept bad, went to be late, was thinking of the ice cream I might get to eat in 7 or 8 hours, etc...

 

they are very young and need a smiling mother to keep reminding them. My girls are 6 and 9 and they can empty the dishwasher, clean the living room, school/play room, their room and dust the house, empty the garbage and clean the bathroom. They can get the laundry out of the dryer and the 9 yr old can almost wash clothes if I took the time to teach her. She can iron and cook simple things. But all of this is under either my direct supervision (like cooking) or with my direction. Each task at a time.

so it is not that they can't but they need to be directed what to do after each task and they are children so most of the time as soon as they are done or think they are done they grab a doll or paintbrush or something and I have to say "okay the bathroom is next or the dishwasher needs to be emptied please now that the beds are made". I also don't expect them to do the jobs perfectly, if the corners of the bedsheets are lopsided I say "great try, let me show you a little better way to do it" and guess what sometimes they care to learn a better way and sometimes they don't give a fig. Too much of anything at one time is too much, especially for young kids. Try spacing their work throughout the morning. beds when you rise then eat breakfast, clear table, get dressed, brush teeth, then pick up room, play 10 minutes then do school, break, work, school, break, work etc....

 

Children live up to what they believe we think of them. If you make them think you believe they are good workers and great kids that deserve smiles and kisses and hugs then they will be good workers that give smiles and kisses and hugs. Smile at your kids all day long. They thrive on it and it changes their attitudes. OH OH I better take my own advice and go smile at my monkey climbing up the sides of the doorframe!:tongue_smilie:

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

My ds9 will make his own breakfast (cereal or toast). Both boys (ages 7 and 9) buss their dishes for all meals, and run water in them.

 

Both boys get dressed independently, most days before coming out of their room.

 

Covers are thrown up on the beds, which counts as "making the bed" in our house.

 

No pajamas are worn, thus none need to be put away.

 

Hair is buzzed so no need to comb. Teeth get brushed with my prompting. Toothpaste lives on the bathroom counter. Toothbrushes live in holders on the bathroom counter.

 

I pay my ds9 $1 to vacuum the entire house. Ds7 gets 50 cents for taking out bathroom trash (which includes putting in a new bag after spraying the can). These are not every-day chores. When cleaning is being done, everybody pitches in and does what he/she is able. Also, when the boys are saving for something in particular, they ask for money chores, which I happily give them.

 

I suspect you would consider me to be quite laid back.

[msjones]

Just keep training them. It takes a long time. My teens can do it now but it's taken years of training and consistency. My younger two, 8 & 10, still walk around like they are following a delightful butterfly only they can see. I have to come alongside them frequently and keep them on task in most of what they do. I feel your pain.

 

Now THIS is helpful to read! In my mind I'm the only homeschooling mom whose kids are following that butterfly! (Actually, in my house, it's an invisible Pokemon guy or Bionicle character -- but the result is the same...)

[sunshine]

It might help to have a few different (shorter) lists (Bathroom List, Bedroom List, Kitchen List, Extra Chore), so that the list doesn't seem so daunting.

 

Then, you might just say "Did you do your Bedroom List?" When they've done it, they get to put a sticker on their chart.

Suzanne

 

 

Great Idea!! I think I might just do that!

[Nestof3]

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect them to do these things daily. From experience, though, mine our not doing them without being told each day.

 

Perhaps you can have a check list of all items, and you hand it to them in the morning and have them check as they go. I am thinking of doing this with mine.

 

I would also suggest saving the chore until after school or while you are making lunch.

 

By all means, do not think this is too much for 7 and 9 year olds to do in a day. Our sons need to learn to work.

[msjones]

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect them to do those things, but I think they're kind of young to expect them to do them all independently. You do need to guide them, but try to find a way that doesn't involve standing over them and threatening them.

 

Can you isolate what exactly causes things to break down? Do they have a set order, or are the boys just expected to figure out what to do next? Do they all have to be done before school? Or could one or two tasks be done during their first break? Do they start off well, but then get distracted? What's the distraction? Do they respond to your threats? Or do they ignore them because they're empty?

 

The threats aren't empty. I'm a good 'follower-through-er.' But, yes, they get distracted. They really are good friends (for which I am thankful), and they want to play.

 

**I'm assuming, based on what you wrote, that they start tasks but then get distracted by goofing off together. Can you have them do their chores separately? That way they won't be distracting each other.

 

Boy A does the tasks in his room first, while Boy B does tasks in the kitchen (or other parts of the house). When they're done, they switch.

 

Yup. This works. The sad truth is that I just don't want to have to keep doing this kind of thing. I wonder if it will ever end?

**How about eliminating some chaos? Can you make them each a flow chart? Use pictures or drawings to show them what to do next? That way they have a clear, linear chart to tell them what to do next.

 

Boy A: Clear dishes. Brush teeth. Wash face. Comb hair. Extra chore. (and so on)

 

 

** They'll need something to help them keep it moving. Maybe a time-limit? Give them plenty of extra time at first, and then as they improve, shorten the time. What can they do when they're finished before the time is up? A sticker on a chart? A coupon for 10 extra minutes of computer time that day? A coupon for an extra 5 minutes to read before lights out? Keep it small and low-maintenance, but you'll know what they'll like. Eventually you can phase out the rewards.

I haven't tried anything tangible like tickets. But I'm pretty sure they would like that. Again, the problem is that I wish the tickets weren't needed!

** You will need to supervise them as you're teaching them any new routine, but don't threaten them. Let the timer be the bad guy. Calmly remind them (occasionally) "There are 10 minutes left on the timer!" Whatever consequence you set for NOT finishing before the timer, follow through. (When we did something similar, the child had to lay on his bed for X minutes after school, before his "free time" could start. they *hated* listening to their brothers start playing when they had to lie on their bed! :)

 

** Something I used with great success to help the kids learn their morning routines, was our morning chore CD. I picked 3 or 4 peppy, upbeat songs. Before each song I recorded my directions. "OK. During this song, Boy A needs to do his bathroom chores. Boy B needs to take care of his dishes and a kitchen chore. Boy C needs to make his bed and get dressed. " The song would play while they worked. They had to be back at the table by the time the song ended." We did this until they knew their routines. It was a fun way to start the day! :)

 

These are great ideas. They do respond well to timers, and music, too. What I'm wishing is that getting all of that done would just be routine. It's been over a YEAR. What did people do in the 'old days' when kids had oodles of actual WORK to do in the morning? This is hardly WORK -- these are simple, non-taxing, self-care tasks. I'm not asking them to plow the upper field or muck out the horse stalls!

 

Thank you for your many good ideas.

[Lawana]

What did people do in the 'old days' when kids had oodles of actual WORK to do in the morning? This is hardly WORK -- these are simple, non-taxing, self-care tasks. I'm not asking them to plow the upper field or muck out the horse stalls!

 

 

I'm curious whether you have some personal knowledge here, or where these ideas come from? Both my parents grew up on farms, my mother on one that did not have running water or electricity. The kind of heavy duty chores to which you refer was done by teenagers in their families. At 7 or 9, my father had to carry a bucket of food scraps to the pig before school. I realize that you are not implying that you expect your kids to do that kind of labor, but from my observations in my family, the farm work ethic is usually only achieved on the farm.

 

Lawana

[joannqn]

I have both a 7 year old and a 9 year old. Here's what mine do and how it works here.

 

My 7 year old is expected to make his bed, get dressed, put away pajamas, brush his teeth, get his own breakfast (cereal or toast), feed the dog, feed the cats, and give the animals fresh water. Each person has his own toothbrush and toothpaste in a divided drawer. It is expected that you put your toothbrush and toothpaste back in your section in the drawer when finished. When he's done with his breakfast, the dishes go on the counter for me to wash later as we don't have a dishwasher. Occasionally, I'll cook breakfast and let him know he doesn't have to get his own breakfast. There's no hair to brush because it is buzzed.

 

My 9 year old is expected to make her bed, get dressed, put away pajamas, brush her teeth, brush her hair, get her own breakfast, load and start the bread machine, and put away the clean dishes from last night.

 

Each morning, I'll tell the kids "time to do your morning chores". They will then do them and usually don't forget anything on their list. We don't have the list written down; they just know what to do. My 7 year old will often have his chores done before I get around to telling them to do them. My 9 year old is not a morning person so she almost never does her chores until told. I'm not a morning person either so we start our day late. Morning chores must be accomplished by 10am though.

 

On Wednesdays, we do extra chores. We start those at 10am. My 7 year old cleans one litter box, brings 2 trash cans to the kitchen for me to empty, cleans the outside of the washer and dryer, and crushes cans. My 9 year old cleans two litter boxes, brings 2 trash cans to the kitchen for me to empty, and takes out the recycling. After I empty the trash cans, each child takes their cans back to the proper room.

 

Other chores are done when told. This covers things like picking up the main rooms, picking up their bedroom, folding/hanging and putting away their laundry, cleaning table tops, and helping their little brother with something. Very occasionally, I'll have one of the kids vacuum but it isn't a normal chore. Neither child has wiped down the bathroom to my satisfaction so I won't assign that until they are older.

[Ria]

Which parts do you find unrealistic? The tasks themselves? Or the doing them without frequent adult intervention?

 

Not the tasks...kids of that age are certainly old enough to handle those chores. It's the independent part that I find unrealistic. They are young kids. They don't, and won't, care about cleanliness like an adult woman does. I think you are going to have to resign yourself to frequent intervention if you expect these things to get done on a regular basis.

 

Ria

[lmrich]

I will make it fast - they can do it all! Just stay on them. I am glad to see you didn't put pick up a wet towel and hang it up, because, that IS impossible in this house.

[msjones]

I'm curious whether you have some personal knowledge here, or where these ideas come from? Both my parents grew up on farms, my mother on one that did not have running water or electricity. The kind of heavy duty chores to which you refer was done by teenagers in their families. At 7 or 9, my father had to carry a bucket of food scraps to the pig before school. I realize that you are not implying that you expect your kids to do that kind of labor, but from my observations in my family, the farm work ethic is usually only achieved on the farm.

 

Lawana

Well, "plowing the upper field" was supposed to be a joke. ;)

 

But, my grandpa had a farm, and I helped with mucking out the horse stalls from around age 10. (Not every day, but when I visited on weekends, the idea was if I was going to ride the horses, I had to help.)

[msjones]

I will make it fast - they can do it all! Just stay on them. I am glad to see you didn't put pick up a wet towel and hang it up, because, that IS impossible in this house.

 

Oddly enough, the wet towels get hung up consistently. Picking up towels is not our issue somehow.

[msjones]

I have both a 7 year old and a 9 year old. Here's what mine do and how it works here.

 

My 7 year old is expected to make his bed, get dressed, put away pajamas, brush his teeth, get his own breakfast (cereal or toast), feed the dog, feed the cats, and give the animals fresh water. Each person has his own toothbrush and toothpaste in a divided drawer. It is expected that you put your toothbrush and toothpaste back in your section in the drawer when finished. When he's done with his breakfast, the dishes go on the counter for me to wash later as we don't have a dishwasher. Occasionally, I'll cook breakfast and let him know he doesn't have to get his own breakfast. There's no hair to brush because it is buzzed.

 

My 9 year old is expected to make her bed, get dressed, put away pajamas, brush her teeth, brush her hair, get her own breakfast, load and start the bread machine, and put away the clean dishes from last night.

 

Each morning, I'll tell the kids "time to do your morning chores". They will then do them and usually don't forget anything on their list. We don't have the list written down; they just know what to do. My 7 year old will often have his chores done before I get around to telling them to do them. My 9 year old is not a morning person so she almost never does her chores until told. I'm not a morning person either so we start our day late. Morning chores must be accomplished by 10am though.

 

On Wednesdays, we do extra chores. We start those at 10am. My 7 year old cleans one litter box, brings 2 trash cans to the kitchen for me to empty, cleans the outside of the washer and dryer, and crushes cans. My 9 year old cleans two litter boxes, brings 2 trash cans to the kitchen for me to empty, and takes out the recycling. After I empty the trash cans, each child takes their cans back to the proper room.

 

Other chores are done when told. This covers things like picking up the main rooms, picking up their bedroom, folding/hanging and putting away their laundry, cleaning table tops, and helping their little brother with something. Very occasionally, I'll have one of the kids vacuum but it isn't a normal chore. Neither child has wiped down the bathroom to my satisfaction so I won't assign that until they are older.

 

Well, you have got a good thing going in your home. My sincere congratulations to you. You are living the dream!

 

You don't say how you achieved that dream, however. Maybe your kids are just the 'routine types?' Or are you a cheerful supervisor? Are there any external incentives involved? How much reminding/supervising are you doing? Is it just the "time for morning chores" reminder?

 

If so, I'm jealous.

[Aggie]

I believe it is reasonable for me to expect the following from my 7 year-old and 9 year-old boys in the mornings:

 

1)Clear all dishes after breakfast, rinse dishes, and put into dishwasher.

 

2) Get dressed, make bed.

 

3) Put pajamas and any other clothing away.

 

4)Brush teeth, wash face, comb hair. Or, shower and comb hair (for my older). Put toothbrush, toothpaste, comb away in drawer.

 

5)Complete one additional chore as indicated by daily chore chart (i.e. wipe down bathroom, vacuum playroom, take out recycling).

 

They have been taught (repeatedly) how to do each of these things. The list of expected chores is posted. The same tasks have been required daily for at least a year. They have no learning disabilities or out-of-the-ordinary behavioral issues.

 

While they never refuse to do what they are asked/told, they almost never complete all of these things without some kind of reminder/threat/supervision from me. They get started and wind up wrestling or laying on the floor or who-knows-what. They never argue, or even complain. They just don't complete these tasks without threats or supervision.

 

Kind gentle reminders get no results. Threats and direct supervision do.

 

I think they should be able to do these things consistently and independently. But they don't. I don't want to threaten, and don't think they should have to NEED supervision at these ages.

 

So, in your opinion, who and/or what is the problem here? Am I unrealistic?I am open to all ideas, opinions, suggestions. This is making me crazy.

 

This is how we do it around here, fwiw. :001_smile:

 

I determine when certain chores are to be done. The chores must be completed *before* something else, like breakfast or classes. If I want them dressed, bathroom and bedroom clean, I say, "These must be done before you have the freedom to eat bf." Then before they eat, I ask, "Do you have the freedom to eat?" For a short while, I will go over their list with them. Eventually, they ask themselves that question before they come out of their room.:001_smile:

 

With your chore chart, if possible, I would probably have them do the additional chore right before lunch or outside play. 2,3,4 could be done before b/f. Clearing the dishes will soon become a habit if that's all they have to do at that particular time and if they see you doing it, too.

 

Even with this way, though, we re-teach all the time. They'll get one skill down and forget another one!:lol:

[Catwoman]

My younger two, 8 & 10, still walk around like they are following a delightful butterfly only they can see.

 

LOL!!!

 

Cat

[MBM]

My son has done steps 1-4 plus pack up his backpack for school since he was about seven. He's now 11, and he still does it (usually) with no prompting from me. Initially, to make remembering easier for him, I printed a few of the things he needed to do before school on an index card, put it up on the fridge, and then he referred to that. We call it his morning routine.

 

We also have an after school and before bedtime routine.

 

So, anyhoo, yes, it can work.

[st_claire]

I think those are very realistic. They probably just get distracted and forget. Try a checklist they can go through each morning. If they like being together, let them do their chores together. i.e. First they make the younger's bed together, then they make the older's bed together.

 

Give them a time limit. i.e. Things are to be done by 9am sharp for example. Every minute they are late is a minute they owe you in pushups, or some other positive task. They will quickly learn to be on time I bet :)

[The Governess]

My dd 4.5 works best if she's timed. I think the timer makes her feel like she's accomplishing something (she really likes to win :D). She's obviously not doing much independently right now, but if I set a timer for 15 minutes by her room and ask her to clean it, she will put toys and clothes away and attempt to make her bed and her sister's bed. Otherwise, she dawdles, starts playing, etc.

 

What if you woke them up, set the timer for 30 minutes (or whatever you think is a reasonable amount of time to complete their list), and agreed on some sort of reward or consequence for completing on time (daily or over the course of a week)? I would also post their lists somewhere where they can easily check them as they go.

[Colleen]

There's nothing unrealistic about what you're asking of them. From a fairly young age, my guys get up on their own, go out and do farm chores, come in and clean up, take breakfast dishes over to the table, brush teeth, make beds, etc. In short, they do real work, as well as get themselves ready for school. BUT...do I absolutely NEVER ask so-and-so if he's brushed teeth? Do I simply assume every little thing has been done without a reminder or two? Of course not. Do I sometimes come across the uncapped toothpaste tube, an unflushed toilet ~ whatever? Naturally. That's life. Supervision, my friend, is part of parenting. Don't sweat the small stuff, and do keep on with the training.

[angela in ohio]

Those are not unrealistic expectations by a long shot.

 

You have to make the consequences worse than the chores. We are teaching them to be successful adults eventually, so I try to think of how it translates in the adult world. When we as adults don't complete our tasks, no one reminds us, we just have a painful conseqence.

 

I don't do rewards and charts. Children are expected to do what they are asked to do to contribute to the family. If they don't, the consequences are swift and consistent. They learn so very quickly to be diligent. In this way, I avoid ruining our relationship with nagging and threatening. It is hard up front, but then you don't have to spend the time chasing them everyday. :)

[WTMindy]

I guess it depends on how important it is to you that they do this without reminders. I think it can be trained, but it will involve either rewarding or taking things away that they value until they remember. It just drove my dh crazy that our son couldn't remember to brush his teeth after meals and so he told him that he didn't get dessert at night if he forgot. And, it took a few times, but he rarely forgets now. I'm not sure those things that you mentioned are worth the amount of work it would take to get them (at this age). I would rather just say, "Oops, you forgot to make your bed. Go do it now, please." etc....

[katilac]

I'll add my voice to the chorus and say that kids this age generally need supervision and/or reminders for what we consider routine tasks.

 

If they didn't, they could just, y'know, move into their own apartments! :lol:

[Twinmom]

If your expectations are too high, mine must be horrendous! :svengo:

 

My DD9 and DS7 are expected to do all your chores and more. They empty and load the dishwasher, DS can run it. DD mops the kitchen floor. They put away all the laundry for all four kids every day (though I lay it out for them), pooper-scoop the yard, take out the trash, make their own lunches (with supervision) and do an hour of cleanup time with Mommy every night (usually picking up toys, reorganizing the house, etc.) The twins pick up their own toys (sort of) and make their beds, and each is assigned to work alongside a bigger kid at chore time.

 

That said...I am constantly reminding them, getting grumpy with them, etc. I hate that part. It's part of life with space-cadets, though. Did I mention that my boys live on a different planet? I've not located which one yet, but I am closing in! ;) They are not only constantly in a dreamworld, they are constantly active. The poor dears cannot focus on one thing for any longer than 10 seconds! I have to work with them, or send DD to work with them (poor, overworked DD!). I figure it's a long term exercise in patience that their wives will someday really appreciate! I'm hoping the payoff will come sooner for me, though, and that my workload will go down with each passing year of practice.

 

My kids work best when I can manage to praise and reward them fully for their tasks. Our goal here, constantly reinforced by both Mom and Dad, is that we are a team and that a team works together. We all clean up messes that are not our own, for example. We all participate in cleanup time, knowing that the time spent at night means more playtime on the weekends. They get quarters or dollars for extra chores. They know that when they've put in their time, they are then set loose to play, play, play! All that said, I thought the children might need protection from me tonight when I found clean clothes thrown on the bottom of the closet floor! :glare: Some days are better than others! A dear friend once told me that she had once been a child slave and she thought it was only fair to pass on the tradition! I remember that conversation when I need to remind myself to smile.

 

Hang in there, try to smile and remind yourself that you are instilling a work ethic in your children each time you remind them, help them, or tell them your head will explode if you have to remind them one. more. time!

Edited March 10, 2009 by Twinmom

[Colleen]

What did people do in the 'old days' when kids had oodles of actual WORK to do in the morning? This is hardly WORK -- these are simple, non-taxing, self-care tasks.

 

Exactly! A lot of kids couldn't care less if their bed is made and their teeth are brushed. Eating their soup at lunch out of the same unrinsed bowl they ate their breakfast cereal really is neither here nor there. We now live in a society in which the daily chores are, in large part, manufactured. Mothers (typically, it's mothers) justifiably want to teach their children good habits and without any genuine work available, they're forced to come up with chores that, by and large, are of little significance to their children. On the other hand, work that's specifically related to the family's financial sustenance can make more sense to a child.

 

Keep in mind, though, that "in the old days", the same children/young people who were milking cows at 5 a.m. actually weren't rinsing out their breakfast dishes. Their mother was doing it, because the kids were contributing to the farm work. Plenty of kids who work(ed) their rears off on the farm never came in and made their bed. That's evidenced by the plethora of people I know who have barns cleaner than their homes, kwim?;)

Edited March 10, 2009 by Colleen

[joannqn]

Well, you have got a good thing going in your home. My sincere congratulations to you. You are living the dream!

 

You don't say how you achieved that dream, however. Maybe your kids are just the 'routine types?' Or are you a cheerful supervisor? Are there any external incentives involved? How much reminding/supervising are you doing? Is it just the "time for morning chores" reminder?

 

If so, I'm jealous.

 

My son is a routine type but my daughter and I are not.

 

I don't supervise at all. We've been very consistent with our expectations and when we find something that's been forgotten, they must stop what they are doing that very second and go do it and may be in minor trouble for having forgotten. Our biggest issue right now is DS forgetting to check the cat's food and give the animals fresh water in the evenings. DH is more stern with DS for forgetting. I quietly go tell him to do it. My daughter sometimes forgets the bread or dishes. They are new chores so she gets a bit of leeway on forgetting but still must go do them immediately upon being told she forgot them.

 

External motivation is there. The majority of their free time is in the morning and they are not allowed computer time or Wii time until the chores are done. This is a huge motivator for my son but not as much for my daughter. If we find them on the computer or Wii without having done their chores first, they lose it for the day and possibly the next day if they've used a good chunk of the time already. If they just forgot something (but did the rest), they have to stop the second we notice and go do it even if the game is not one that can be paused or saved at that very moment.

 

The chores being done without a lot of nagging is an extention of everything else. We generally get this kind of obedience in every area that we've set ground rules. We've always had high expections, firm discipline, and consistency. Overall, we've seem to have gotten to a point where discipline isn't needed as much as it used to be. But we laid a lot of ground work between the ages of 2 and 5ish. There are still times when they get in trouble for something and discipline is swift. Recently, my kids lost their Wii time for bickering and got sent to separate rooms. There was no warning given because they know that mom doesn't tolerate bickering; it's one of my biggest/fastest irritators.

 

I'm thinking that this all might sound like we're really strict and mean parents. But I don't think we are. Our kids have a lot of freedom in areas that I often think others are very strict in. We do a lot of fun things together like taking them to plays, museums, science centers, kid events, bowling, free movies, dates w/mom or dad, etc. I try to make school as fun and short as possible so that they have more time to play. They also know that this stuff is a benefit of obedience so that's a motivator too.

[choirfarm]

Well, my boys are 12 and 14, but I will tell you what has worked. I have a chart on the fridge of their morning routine. They check it off as they go. At 8am, if it is not done I take off time. They get 90 minutes of video games on the computer on the weekend. So I take off 5 minutes for each chore not done. It has done wonders. I used to nag. I don't anymore. I tell them to get up once at 7am. Then I walk away and let them take the consequences. My boys could still care less about chores and still need an external motivator to get them done. I wish I could figure out a way, but I cannot. For my 7yo girl, I have pictures on her chart since she isn't the best reader. She gets dressed, eats breakfast, brushes her teeth, makes her bed, empties the silverware, and empties the cat litter. Now we do other chores, but we do them later in the day. My sons get dressed, brush their teeth, make their bed, empty the dishwasher, eat breakfast and feed the dogs. We have a 30 minute clean up time later in the day.

 

Christine

[mrsdash]

In my opinion, your expectations are not too high. My twin 7yr.old dds do the same daily chores, more or less that you listed. They also have to keep up with the pets water and food bowls throughout the day and they have to bring down their laundry twice a week and fold and put it all away as well.

I don't use charts or rewards but I do tell them that they live here and there is no free lunch in this world. I have told all my dc that it's my responsibility to make sure they know how to do these things because as adults, it wont be done for them.

My guess as to why your dc are not doing these things is that they just don't want to. I know my dc don't want to either but heck, I didn't want to get out of bed this morning at 6am, either but I did because I have to.

I do keep on top of what they need to do because I know that at least half the time, they wont do them on their own.Luckily, my 2 older girls (14,17)are very responsible and also hold their younger siblings responsible. I had my younger two shadow the older two and they were mentored by them in how to do their chores so the older two are like my mini-managers with them now, ha.

It's just consistency- they'll get it.

[eternalknot]

Are they expected to do these things in the order in which you listed them?

 

I think personality plays into this. My 8 year old does most of what you outline plus he makes breakfast for himself and his little sister, but it's his nature to want order and routine. FWIW I don't share this nature, and never have. Of eight kids, I was always the one who needed prodding by my parents to get moving in the morning. I still move slowly and organically in the mornings.

 

My parents implemented a rule just for me: before I could leave my room for breakfast, I had to have my bed made and be dressed (including all hygiene from teeth to hair, and clothes in hamper). It should come as no surprise that as soon as I left for college this all went by the wayside, and I reverted back to my own preferences for 'routine' LOL but it kept the peace while I was living at home.

 

Our rule regarding clothes not in the hamper - I outsource our clothing laundry, so whatever isn't in the hamper on the day laundry is collected ... doesn't get washed until the next week. We don't have it collected on a set day, and the unpredictability keeps ALL of us diligent about using the hamper. Anything left out gets handwashed by the offending party, as soon as it is spotted. I don't mind unmade beds, but I hate tripping over piles of (smelly) clothes on the floor!

[msjones]

If your expectations are too high, mine must be horrendous! :svengo:

 

My DD9 and DS7 are expected to do all your chores and more. They empty and load the dishwasher, DS can run it. DD mops the kitchen floor. They put away all the laundry for all four kids every day (though I lay it out for them), pooper-scoop the yard, take out the trash, make their own lunches (with supervision) and do an hour of cleanup time with Mommy every night (usually picking up toys, reorganizing the house, etc.) The twins pick up their own toys (sort of) and make their beds, and each is assigned to work alongside a bigger kid at chore time.

 

That said...I am constantly reminding them, getting grumpy with them, etc. I hate that part. It's part of life with space-cadets, though. Did I mention that my boys live on a different planet? I've not located which one yet, but I am closing in! ;) They are not only constantly in a dreamworld, they are constantly active. The poor dears cannot focus on one thing for any longer than 10 seconds! I have to work with them, or send DD to work with them (poor, overworked DD!). I figure it's a long term exercise in patience that their wives will someday really appreciate! I'm hoping the payoff will come sooner for me, though, and that my workload will go down with each passing year of practice.

 

My kids work best when I can manage to praise and reward them fully for their tasks. Our goal here, constantly reinforced by both Mom and Dad, is that we are a team and that a team works together. We all clean up messes that are not our own, for example. We all participate in cleanup time, knowing that the time spent at night means more playtime on the weekends. They get quarters or dollars for extra chores. They know that when they've put in their time, they are then set loose to play, play, play! All that said, I thought the children might need protection from me tonight when I found clean clothes thrown on the bottom of the closet floor! :glare: Some days are better than others! A dear friend once told me that she had once been a child slave and she thought it was only fair to pass on the tradition! I remember that conversation when I need to remind myself to smile.

 

Hang in there, try to smile and remind yourself that you are instilling a work ethic in your children each time you remind them, help them, or tell them your head will explode if you have to remind them one. more. time!

 

This is so encouraging! Especially since my original post only included their morning chores -- they have chores similar to your kids later in the day. I want them to participate in the work -- not sit and observe it. My husband and I have the same 'teamwork' philosophy that your family has.

 

After reading everyone's replies, I have recognized that MY laziness about supervision is a large part (maybe the main part?!) of the problem. We had a lovely day yesterday because I focused on MY role in the chores rather than theirs.

[myfunnybunch]

Hmmm....well, it seems reasonable to *me* but my boys are engaged in a wrestling match and fake farting at one another while I sit here with my coffee.

 

Our morning list is basically the same as yours. I think that our expectations that they be able to do these tasks independently are age-appropriate, but I also believe it's more important to meet them where they are in this moment. My boys know *what* to do, that's not the problem. It's staying on task and in routine each morning. My 8 y.o. can't do it. My 6 y.o. can if his brother doesn't distract him. Different personalities, distractibility, abilities to organize. It's actually a lot for them to mentally organize.

 

I break it up into three pieces and offer prompts for each:

*Cleaning up after breakfast

*Self-care

*Daily chore

 

The natural reward is play time. We start school at 9:00. The more quickly they can get around, the more play time they have before 9:00. Didn't stay on task? Too bad you used up play time goofing around during chores. As a matter of fact, I just got up and directed their attention to the clock and reminded them that they planned to play a jumping game on the steps when chores are finished.

 

Good luck. :) I'm off to help littlest get dressed.

 

They will get it eventually.

 

Cat

[msjones]

 

Exactly! A lot of kids couldn't care less if their bed is made and their teeth are brushed. Eating their soup at lunch out of the same unrinsed bowl they ate their breakfast cereal really is neither here nor there. We now live in a society in which the daily chores are, in large part, manufactured. Mothers (typically, it's mothers) justifiably want to teach their children good habits and without any genuine work available, they're forced to come up with chores that, by and large, are of little significance to their children. On the other hand, work that's specifically related to the family's financial sustenance can make more sense to a child.

 

Keep in mind, though, that "in the old days", the same children/young people who were milking cows at 5 a.m. actually weren't rinsing out their breakfast dishes. Their mother was doing it, because the kids were contributing to the farm work. Plenty of kids who work(ed) their rears off on the farm never came in and made their bed. That's evidenced by the plethora of people I know who have barns cleaner than their homes, kwim?;)

 

You're exactly right about the manufactured 'work.' I live smack-dab in the middle of Seattle, have a tiny yard, a small house, and no livestock. ;)

 

There is very little real 'Man Work' for my boys to do here. I have often dreamed of moving to the country (or maybe a dairy farm...hmmm...) where my children might have some real work to do. (I have a very complex fantasy about what that might be like. I'm sure you, Colleen, would get a real kick out of it.)

 

I've thought of getting chickens in our backyard just so the boys would have to collect the eggs. My husband, however, maintains a "no livestock" rule.

[Murphy101]

I think it's a perfectly fine list and my 7 and 9 yr olds do all those things, except put dishes in the dishwasher. (that's my chore:))

Some days they need more prodding than other days, just like me.;)

And they don't do it exactly like I would, but good enough is good enough.

 

I find a simple list of what to do when is helpful and having a set time of day (say 30 - 45 minutes after breakfast) where everyone, even mom, is doing chores very effective. Routine is very important.

 

ETA: I put 30 - 45 minutes, but it's very important to give too much time. First, knowing they have plenty of time takes the stress off. Second, knowing if they get it done properly in short order they'll have left over time to play is a nice incentive. Third, there's always going to be those bad days where they are moving in slow motion or having a cranky time. Extra time gives everyone some breathing space to get over those hurdles.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Martha

[Scarlett]

I think it is unrealistic to expect them to do those things unsupervised. And honestly, it is a lot to do. I don't do all of that first thing in the morning.

 

Really? Those are standard morning chores here...when do you do them?

 

To the OP, my just turned 9 year old has a similar list that he is capable of doing, but rarely without reminders and supervision. I just keep on reminding and hoping it will stick some day.

 

An old saying....a two year old with a broom, is a two year old with a broom. A 12 year old with a broom is a blessing.

[Strawberry Queen]

I think your list of morning chores are perfectly reasonable. My dds 8 and 6 have similar lists, although our household clean up chores are at another time. I recently asked my dh about finding a consequence for neglected chores. By this I mean when I ask if they've done all of their chores and they say yes. They have chore packs with cards to remind them of what they need to do. If they do all of the cards then they're done.

 

Anyhow, my dh said that the consequence should be missing the next meal. The reasoning being that if someone doesn't work then they don't eat. Their chores only take at most half and hour in the morning, and I'm not expecting bed making or sink cleaning perfection.

 

Well, since I informed them that that would be the consequence they have been very consistent. They will double check their chores to ensure that they did them all. Of course I think I will have a hard time when I have to enforce the consequence, but it should only take one time.

 

Keep going with your training. It seems to me that your expectations are reasonable and they should be able to rise to the occasion.

HTH

[Josie]

Whether they can/will do things without being proded really depends on the child. I have one, the younger one, who LOVES to clean. She especially loves to clean the toilet, go figure! She will do her things without being asked. The older one, well, not so much.

 

BTW, I don't think you are being unrealistic. You will just have to keep at 'em until they understand that they have to do it.

[Haiku]

I have a daughter who is 14. It is just this year that she has started to take responsibility for doing her chores without me reminding and threatening and imposing consequences. I tried every strategy in the book to help/make her remember to do her chores in a timely manner. I honestly don't think that anything I did made a difference. I think she just reached an age where she was mature enough to do it independently. We have had terrible chore wars in our home, and with my younger kids I am resigned to the fact that I will simply have to direct them. It's a lot easier (if more boring) to direct them each and every time, every day, than it is to spend my life in a tizzy about it (I am not being snarky to you ... I seriously spent way too much of my life in a tizzy about my oldest's chores and I have learned from that).

 

My younger two are very close in age, and I frequently refer to them as "the puppies." I feel like any time I turn my back on them, they are on the floor, rolling around like puppies. Even with direction and supervision, if they are in the same room trying to do a chore, their puppy natures get in the way. The kids are sent to separate rooms of the house to complete their chores. It's the only way they can get done without puppy issues.

 

Good luck. I know this is horribly frustrating.

 

Tara

[myfunnybunch]

I honestly don't think that anything I did made a difference. I think she just reached an age where she was mature enough to do it independently. We have had terrible chore wars in our home, and with my younger kids I am resigned to the fact that I will simply have to direct them. It's a lot easier (if more boring) to direct them each and every time, every day, than it is to spend my life in a tizzy about it (I am not being snarky to you ... I seriously spent way too much of my life in a tizzy about my oldest's chores and I have learned from that).Tara

 

I have to totally agree with this, as it describes to a "T" what I've learned from and with my oldest dd about chores.

 

I'll just add an "Amen!"

 

Cat

[Desert Rat]

I expect similar chores to be completed but I also expect to guide them through the morning. I find it has eased my mind (and demeanor) when I stopped expecting these things to be done independently. What I do for my similarly aged boys is tell them to complete 2 tasks then come back and see me. They do and then receive the next 2 and so on. It's easier for them to remember and I don't get as frustrated with them. Plus it gives the morning tasks a game like quality with running and friendly compitition.

I think high expectations are great for kids but remember that they are just kids.