S/o older people who lose touch with the lives of younger generations

[fairfarmhand]

In the other thread where great grandma was guilting a relative for needing to move for a work opportunity, I got to thinking…how do some older folks lose touch with the realities of younger generations while others understand better the challenges they’re facing?

My dad and stepmom are very much in touch with what young people face. They have their opinions but they know how hard things are. I know other older people don’t get it. An Organization we’re a part of recently revamped the pay of their staff and the older folks on the board struggled with the pay increase. 
 

I can’t put my finger on what’s the difference. It’s not just money matters. It’s also the challenges of modern life, most families needing 2 incomes which means less Time to do other things, the pace of life, etc. so how do some folks stay in touch and others lose touch with what others are facing?

[Rosie_0801]

I think it depends where they think the responsibility lies. Many older persons take the attitude that they've done their share as caregivers, now they deserve to be waited upon. 

[Lecka]

This is a mystery to me, too.  One of my sisters is in her early 50s, and can’t figure out that a child during Covid probably missed out on formative developmental experiences…. And it’s not “magically okay” because “other kids missed out on them too.”  
 

I don’t know why.  
 

The most in-touch people I know will have little things, but I feel like I can say “well, this thing is different, and that is causing many people to make this choice you don’t understand.”  Some people can get this, and some people do not get it.  

[prairiewindmomma]

I don't think it's strictly an age thing.

It's an empathy gap.  Part of that empathy gap is being able to perspective take.  If you believe that your interpretation of life is the One and True interpretation, and that no one else can have a different experience in life, it's really hard to "be with it".  People can share all kinds of other perspectives with them, but if they can't accept those perspectives as being valid, then they will never become "with it". 

 

[regentrude]

I think it may have to do with both empathy and their own life experiences. 

Some older people may not see that things are so hard for young people today because their own lives were much harder and they don't think today's youth has that much ground to complain. When you boiled diapers in a pot on the stove and carried coal buckets up three floors, you'll probably find that there's a lot of entitled whining going on. 

One thing I notice is that the older generation had a lot more resilience than what we observe in the 20 year olds nowadays. I don't blame them for being frustrated with the fragility of today's youth.

Edited August 25 by regentrude

[GoVanGogh]

24 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I don't think it's strictly an age thing.

It's an empathy gap.  Part of that empathy gap is being able to perspective take.  If you believe that your interpretation of life is the One and True interpretation, and that no one else can have a different experience in life, it's really hard to "be with it".  People can share all kinds of other perspectives with them, but if they can't accept those perspectives as being valid, then they will never become "with it". 

 

Oh, that is interesting. I read the other thread and was thinking about how one of my parents simply could not grasp 1.) that my spouse is salaried and sometimes works more than 40 hours a week without additional pay 2.) my nephew works a remote/work from home job (this was pre-Covid) 3.) one of my siblings changed jobs every few years to work their way up the corporate ladder. This parent is extreme narcissistic and does not have a single empathy gene in their body. In all my years of reading the forums and reading about narcissistic parents, I have never read any that tops some of this person’s behaviors. This parent is forever wanting to “stick it to them” in all of their jobs and that has always dictated how they view employment - and life in general. It leaves them very much out of touch with reality. The empathy gap certainly holds for this parent. 

[marbel]

I also don't think it has much to do with age, but a person's personality and ability to empathize. People with empathy can understand that people of every generation have challenges, they are just different. 

Humility plays a part too. People who think they know everything are not going to be able to understand that each generation, actually each individual, has different challenges.  They think everyone should take their advice. 

My mother was very good about this. She was extremely humble, never felt like she knew everything, and was just very understanding. She had lived in poverty (was a teen during the Great Depression), just had a hard life in general. But she could empathize with other people's struggles, even if they were mild compared to what she experienced. 

[Kidlit]

43 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I think it depends where they think the responsibility lies. Many older persons take the attitude that they've done their share as caregivers, now they deserve to be waited upon. 

I think this can be part of it.  I have heard an older person in my life basically say that older family members should be honored/revered, even listened to and heeded, simply because they are old--that it's the younger generation's duty to stand by and help them, even more or less obey them.  
 

As I age myself, I see how hard and even, at times, wrong this can actually be.  Age doesn't necessarily confer wisdom or selflessness or any of those things. I wish it were true, but it just isn't. 

[GoVanGogh]

11 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I think it may have to do with both empathy and their own life experiences. 

Some older people may not see that things are so hard for young people today because their own lives were much harder and they don't think today's youth has that much ground to complain. When you boiled diapers in a pot on the stove and carried coal buckets up three floors, you'll probably find that there's a lot of entitled whining going on. 

One thing I notice is that the older generation had a lot more resilience than what we observe in the 20 year olds nowadays. I don't blame them for being frustrated with the fragility of today's youth.

This reminds me of two books I want to read - the anxious generation and the comfort crisis. (I think those are the titles.)

[gardenmom5]

53 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

In the other thread where great grandma was guilting a relative for needing to move for a work opportunity, 

Both of my grandmothers guilted their own children for daring to consider moving away for work opportunities.

I don't think it's a generational thing/being out of touch thing.  I think it's a "you have to stay here with me" thing.

 

[Kidlit]

1 minute ago, gardenmom5 said:

Both of my grandmothers guilted their own children for daring to consider moving away for work opportunities.

I don't think it's a generational thing/being out of touch thing.  I think it's a "you have to stay here with me" thing.

 

I'm the OP of the original thread, and I think in my family's case, there's a LOT of anxiety at play.  Mental health has been at the forefront of my own family's journey, particularly anxiety, but we all likely  inherited it from somebody. 

[Lecka]

16 minutes ago, regentrude said:

One thing I notice is that the older generation had a lot more resilience than what we observe in the 20 year olds nowadays. I don't blame them for being frustrated with the fragility of today's youth.

I see your point.  
 

I don’t see this myself, though, what I see is more of a confusion “why do people make this choice” and it will be something where I have an explanation, and it’s just that some condition has changed.  
 

Nobody thinks the young adults in my family are whiners, but I think the answer to some questions about their living situations are “its gotten expensive and so they’re making different choices.”  I think it’s a big part of the reason a niece moved in with a boyfriend, after saying how happy she was in her apartment…. And my son living with my parents to have his own room.  I think a big reason is it’s gotten more expensive.  

[gardenmom5]

Just now, Kidlit said:

I'm the OP of the original thread, and I think in my family's case, there's a LOT of anxiety at play.  Mental health has been at the forefront of my own family's journey, particularly anxiety, but we all likely  inherited it from somebody. 

There are various genetic factors in anxiety.  
There are a multitude of ways to deal with anxiety.  People with anxiety are happier if they are able to do something about it.

[Lecka]

There are also changes in the system of getting a drivers license where I live, and in my opinion it’s made it much more difficult for a significant number of people to get a license.  I think it’s also made it easier for some people to get a license, I think it goes both ways.  It is just different in a way that has different effects on different people, and for some people it makes it more difficult.

 

And I think this contributes to fewer young people driving, locally.  
 

It’s also gotten more expensive to drive and pay for gas and insurance.  
 

I will hear people say “why are so many people not driving now” who aren’t aware of how the system has changed here.  
 

For my own kids, they would have had a much easier time with the old system.  For my nieces, the new system worked well for them.  For a lot of things I hear, the new system is too expensive and it’s a reason I hear.  A lot of older people are not aware that the driving school in town charges $385 for their basic package.  

[Hyacinth]

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

In the other thread where great grandma was guilting a relative for needing to move for a work opportunity, I got to thinking…how do some older folks lose touch with the realities of younger generations while others understand better the challenges they’re facing?

Maybe this is a spin-off from your spin-off, but I’m noticing some younger people in my circles not recognizing the challenges of the older generation. Fixed incomes. Technology changes. Failing health, including vision, hearing, and mobility. And yet “Why is Grandma so grumpy?” 

[Katy]

Rigid thinking can be from brain damage, anxiety, dementia, and personality disorders, off the top of my head. 
 

I did get pretty upset at pay structure changes at a job once. I’d been promoted twice and was doing about 3 times the work as new employees. They restructured pay and suddenly everyone was making the same amount I was. I gave it two months. They fired the director that had promised me a raise. I left two weeks later. But I don’t think that’s the sort of pay restructuring you mean? 

[Tree Frog]

5 minutes ago, Hyacinth said:

Maybe this is a spin-off from your spin-off, but I’m noticing some younger people in my circles not recognizing the challenges of the older generation. Fixed incomes. Technology changes. Failing health, including vision, hearing, and mobility. And yet “Why is Grandma so grumpy?” 

I agree it goes both ways. It really annoys me almost to the point of anger to hear young people refer to older people as "boomers" and to hear older people refer to younger people as "millennials" . There's such derision in their voices and what they're saying when either group refers to the other that way.

[fairfarmhand]

23 minutes ago, Katy said:

Rigid thinking can be from brain damage, anxiety, dementia, and personality disorders, off the top of my head. 
 

I did get pretty upset at pay structure changes at a job once. I’d been promoted twice and was doing about 3 times the work as new employees. They restructured pay and suddenly everyone was making the same amount I was. I gave it two months. They fired the director that had promised me a raise. I left two weeks later. But I don’t think that’s the sort of pay restructuring you mean? 

Nope. Just adjusting salaries to account for cost of living. And that hasn’t been done for a few years so it’s desperately needed.

[Kidlit]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

There are various genetic factors in anxiety.  
There are a multitude of ways to deal with anxiety.  People with anxiety are happier if they are able to do something about it.

Absolutely!  Twelve weeks in partial hospitalization for one of my own dc certainly taught me and my dh that!  Unfortunately, the level of acceptance and self-awareness that we had to come to isn't as "easy" for the next-up generation. 

[fairfarmhand]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

I think it may have to do with both empathy and their own life experiences. 

Some older people may not see that things are so hard for young people today because their own lives were much harder and they don't think today's youth has that much ground to complain. When you boiled diapers in a pot on the stove and carried coal buckets up three floors, you'll probably find that there's a lot of entitled whining going on. 

One thing I notice is that the older generation had a lot more resilience than what we observe in the 20 year olds nowadays. I don't blame them for being frustrated with the fragility of today's youth.

My favorite old people have no patience for entitled whining. But they do recognize that life is hard for many folks nowadays in ways they never had to deal with. And they don’t want their kids and grandkids to have to live the struggles they did in their formative years. Thy want them to have a clean safe place to live.

[Kidlit]

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

There are also changes in the system of getting a drivers license where I live, and in my opinion it’s made it much more difficult for a significant number of people to get a license.  I think it’s also made it easier for some people to get a license, I think it goes both ways.  It is just different in a way that has different effects on different people, and for some people it makes it more difficult.

 

And I think this contributes to fewer young people driving, locally.  
 

It’s also gotten more expensive to drive and pay for gas and insurance.  
 

I will hear people say “why are so many people not driving now” who aren’t aware of how the system has changed here.  
 

For my own kids, they would have had a much easier time with the old system.  For my nieces, the new system worked well for them.  For a lot of things I hear, the new system is too expensive and it’s a reason I hear.  A lot of older people are not aware that the driving school in town charges $385 for their basic package.  

This is a great example of the issue at hand. 

[KidsHappen]

I think it has a lot to do with exposure to each other's lives and challenges. My hubby and I are the oldest generation in our families and our grandchildren are the youngest. We get together as a family at least once a month plus all the individuals interact on at least a weekly basis so we all see what everyone else is going through and we are able to help each other out with various issues. The kids were aware of everything we were going through when my hubby had to retire early and they know that we now live on a limited income so some things are more difficult than they used to be. My youngest and her SO still live with us so everyone knows how hard it is for them to get by on their income. We all live in the same basic area so we know how expensive the COL is here and how limited the pay is. We have many of the same issues to deal with so it is easy to understand what everyone else is going through. A lot of people don't have such an intimate view of what other generations are going through so it is hard for them to understand and empathize. 

[Arcadia]

3 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

so how do some folks stay in touch and others lose touch with what others are facing?

By actually listening instead of asking with an ulterior motive or judging everything that is said. For example DS19 stays in a dorm because he was rejected by colleges within commute distance. Yet we get people “questioning” why he can’t just stay home and go to college nearby despite replying a few times that he couldn’t get in. While people who bother to listen were sympathetic and asked him how he feels about college life when they met him this summer. 

[-----]

nm

Edited August 30 by kathyl

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Arcadia said:

By actually listening instead of asking with an ulterior motive or judging everything that is said. For example DS19 stays in a dorm because he was rejected by colleges within commute distance. Yet we get people “questioning” why he can’t just stay home and go to college nearby despite replying a few times that he couldn’t get in. While people who bother to listen were sympathetic and asked him how he feels about college life when they met him this summer. 

So much this! These attitudes are self-reinforcing. If an older person is willing to listen and show understanding you’re more likely to communicate honestly with them about how things are for you. If you’re dismissed as a whiny crybaby then you’re not going to have those conversations with that person. They can go away thinking they’re right and not be challenged again. (The same goes both ways  of course with younger people listening to older people. At least school forces them to learn some history and perspective). 
 

some things are easier now and others are harder. If people approach with a closed mind there’s no way for understanding to be built. 

[Ausmumof3]

4 hours ago, Hyacinth said:

Maybe this is a spin-off from your spin-off, but I’m noticing some younger people in my circles not recognizing the challenges of the older generation. Fixed incomes. Technology changes. Failing health, including vision, hearing, and mobility. And yet “Why is Grandma so grumpy?” 

Or vice verse people my mil age who think anyone under the age of 50 can solve all her tech support problems and gets super impatient if it’s not done in two minutes. Because she assumes it’s really easy for us because we’re younger instead of realising that some tech stuff is just hard or badly designed and scammers are getting smarter and we’re all fighting to make it work! But definitely on the health stuff it’s true we don’t understand well until we deal ourselves.

[SKL]

I think some people are just kinda clueless regardless of age.  😛

For others, it may be how they gather (or don't gather) current information about the world.  Do they follow the news, and what type of sources do they trust?  Not all elderly people choose to closely follow these things.  For some, it's too anxiety-inducing.  For others, vision, hearing, and cognitive issues interfere, or they just prioritize other things during their waking hours.

And a lot of economic issues vary by geography.  Some folks are more interested in what's happening nearby vs. many miles away.  Especially in a world where you don't know who's telling the truth anyway.  You can see what's happening on your block.  What someone says is happening far away is less certain.

Another thing is that the pace of change seems to be much faster than it used to be.  How can it be that the same list of goods/services today costs multiple times what it cost just 10-15 years ago?  Take health insurance for example.  Mine increased by 250% in about 15 years, despite no health issues to speak of.  That is not reasonable to expect ... or at least, it hasn't historically been.

[Pawz4me]

1 minute ago, SKL said:

 

Another thing is that the pace of change seems to be much faster than it used to be.  How can it be that the same list of goods/services today costs multiple times what it cost just 10-15 years ago?  Take health insurance for example.  Mine increased by 250% in about 15 years, despite no health issues to speak of.  That is not reasonable to expect ... or at least, it hasn't historically been.

"Historically" health insurance hasn't been a thing.

I'm one of those much-bashed older people and I remember when nobody had health insurance. You went to the doc and paid the bill with cash. If you had to go to the hospital you hoped you had enough savings to cover it, or you arranged a payment plan.

The main differences are that back then there were no MRI, CT, PET or other costly scans. There was no laparoscopic surgery, let alone robotic surgery. If you had cancer you were sent home to die. Pretty much the same for diabetes. If you had an AI disease you assumed whatever years you had left were going to be miserable.

Now people expect to get a scan that costs $$$$$ for every little ache or twinge. They think if they don't get a MRI or CT scan for their achy knee (that's in all likelihood "just" arthritis) that they're getting subpar care. We're spoiled to the wonders of easy surgeries. Curative radiation treatments can often be done in a handful of days instead of weeks and weeks. Cancer can often be treated (or at least controlled) with daily oral medications. We have many options for dealing with diabetes. AI diseases can often be controlled or even put into remission with medication. But all of those things cost a LOT of money.

That's why your insurance has gone up. Not because there's some conspiracy to make life tougher for younger people. And whether you use it yourself or not is irrelevant. Insurance is pooled risk. If other people expect a costly scan for every little twinge, and if they get it -- your insurance cost is going to go up.

[fairfarmhand]

In giving this more thought…

the people who are in touch have bought and sold real estate in the last 5-10 years. I think if you purchased your house in 1980 and paid it off, and you’ve not looked at real estate since, the idea that housing has doubled or tripled in cost could be difficult to absorb. So the tiny “starter “ home that you bought is likely out of reach for a couple in their mid 20s. Even tho it doesn’t have granite countertops hard wood flooring, etc. just a basic no frills house is out of reach for so many.

the people who easily make friend with folks of all walks of life don’t struggle with this as much that I’ve seen. Those who live more insular lives have hard time with the idea that “different” isn’t automatically bad.

the people who have been willing to move away from their families of origin are better able to understand that the world is much more varied than some seem to think. 

[fairfarmhand]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

.

 

That's why your insurance has gone up. Not because there's some conspiracy to make life tougher for younger people. And whether you use it yourself or not is irrelevant. Insurance is pooled risk. If other people expect a costly scan for every little twinge, and if they get it -- your insurance cost is going to go up.

Who said it was a conspiracy? 

[fairfarmhand]

11 hours ago, marbel said:

I also don't think it has much to do with age, but a person's personality and ability to empathize. People with empathy can understand that people of every generation have challenges, they are just different. 

Humility plays a part too. People who think they know everything are not going to be able to understand that each generation, actually each individual, has different challenges.  They think everyone should take their advice. 

My mother was very good about this. She was extremely humble, never felt like she knew everything, and was just very understanding. She had lived in poverty (was a teen during the Great Depression), just had a hard life in general. But she could empathize with other people's struggles, even if they were mild compared to what she experienced. 

I’ve read through this several times and it is totally on point. 

[SKL]

2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

"Historically" health insurance hasn't been a thing.

I'm one of those much-bashed older people and I remember when nobody had health insurance. You went to the doc and paid the bill with cash. If you had to go to the hospital you hoped you had enough savings to cover it, or you arranged a payment plan.

The main differences are that back then there were no MRI, CT, PET or other costly scans. There was no laparoscopic surgery, let alone robotic surgery. If you had cancer you were sent home to die. Pretty much the same for diabetes. If you had an AI disease you assumed whatever years you had left were going to be miserable.

Now people expect to get a scan that costs $$$$$ for every little ache or twinge. They think if they don't get a MRI or CT scan for their achy knee (that's in all likelihood "just" arthritis) that they're getting subpar care. We're spoiled to the wonders of easy surgeries. Curative radiation treatments can often be done in a handful of days instead of weeks and weeks. Cancer can often be treated (or at least controlled) with daily oral medications. We have many options for dealing with diabetes. AI diseases can often be controlled or even put into remission with medication. But all of those things cost a LOT of money.

That's why your insurance has gone up. Not because there's some conspiracy to make life tougher for younger people. And whether you use it yourself or not is irrelevant. Insurance is pooled risk. If other people expect a costly scan for every little twinge, and if they get it -- your insurance cost is going to go up.

I remember the old days too.  My point is that it's not historically normal for essential goods or services to multiply in cost within one generation.  (Health insurance is just one example.)  So older people, who aren't even in the market for those specific goods or services any more, would understandably find that hard to fathom.

[marbel]

Regarding pricing - I remember shopping with my mother and her being shocked at the prices of clothing. And I said "yeah ma, things are more expensive now." 

And then one day, I was out shopping with my daughter, and found myself being shocked at how much clothing cost. And my daughter said "yeah mom, things are more expensive now." And it clicked that I had made another step toward turning into my mother. And I never said it again.

I never did think to ask my mother if she had had the same exchange with her mother at some point. They were so poor and bought so little (and my mom loved the thrift stores) that they probably didn't. 

I don't know why some people find change so hard to accept, but some just do. I mean, I know a few older people (like my age 😎) who still complain about seat belt requirements. "We didn't have to have seat belts and we turned out OK." Yeah, most of us did, but what about the people who didn't? 

[City Mouse]

I don’t think this is a new problem. I dealt with this kind of stuff back in the very early 90’s from my MIL.

MIL was born in 1922 and grew up in a relatively well off family in the “nice” part of St. Louis. I distinctly remember a specific conversation with her that came up many times. She used to tell me all about how wonderful It was that her daughter stayed home with her kid and sent the kid to some “nice” preschool program. I took this to mean that me working full time and putting my kid in a less fancy day care center was looked down on. After hearing this from her several times, I finally had enough, and I flat agreed with her that it was wonderful. It was also too bad that her son (my DH) had chosen a much lower paying career than his sister’s DH, and that if I did not work that we would have 1 car that he would take to work, live in a 2 bedroom apartment instead of our house, and not have the money to pay for any childcare/pre-school programs. After I confronted her, she quit sharing that opinion.

My opinion on this general topic is that society has made it so that younger people are to respect our elders and not contradict their opinions. Some elders take this to the extreme and think this means that family members must do what ever they say no matter what. 
 

On a lighter note, there is a cute family story about my FIL going to a car dealership back in the early 1970s maybe buy a car. After a long negotiation the salesman would not come down in price to suit FIL, so FIL pulled out his checkbook and wrote a check for the amount he wished to pay and said something along the lines of “I didn’t pay $X0,000 for my first house. I will not pay that much for a new car.” The salesman did take the check, and FIL got his new car. Just recently I was looking at the price of new cars/trucks and realized that my DH and I had finally reached the same place as his dad did all those years ago. There are many new vehicles today that cost more that what we paid for out first house. I would have a very, very hard time ever buying a new car that cost more than that house. 

Edited August 26 by City Mouse

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

My point is that it's not historically normal for essential goods or services to multiply in cost within one generation.  

This is a tangent, but I want to point out that this may be true, but only for a very small privileged slice of history and geography: the US in the second half of the 20th century. 
Elsewhere and at other times, much larger fluctuations and upheavals were the norm.
My grandmother lived through WWI, Great Depression, WW2, post-war famine, creation of new states and currencies, breakdown of these states following the collapse of communism  - all of which caused complete shake-ups of the economic system that went way beyond what we're discussing. (And going back further: there were wars in pretty much every generation.)

ETA: The model of husband goes to work/wife as homemaker of the 1950s in the US is also not universal. In many parts of the world and at many times, this hasn't been reality.

Edited August 25 by regentrude

[scholastica]

44 minutes ago, regentrude said:

 

ETA: The model of husband goes to work/wife as homemaker of the 1950s in the US is also not universal. In many parts of the world and at many times, this hasn't been reality.

It wasn’t even the norm in the US then, but put forward as the ideal. Three out of four of my dh and my grandmothers were working outside the home in the 1950s. The only one who didn’t had 11 kids and her dh worked 2 or 3 jobs a lot of the time.  

[Kidlit]

4 hours ago, City Mouse said:

 

My opinion on this general topic is that society has made it so that younger people are to respect our elders and not contradict their opinions. Some elders take this to the extreme and think this means that family members must do what ever they say no matter what. 
 

 

I think some of my elders definitely believe this way.  It's hard to fathom, yet there it is. 

[Ginevra]

17 hours ago, GoVanGogh said:

This reminds me of two books I want to read - the anxious generation and the comfort crisis. (I think those are the titles.)

I recently read The Comfort Crisis. I liked it. I think many of the observations are accurate. 
 

I got The Anxious Generation on Audible but haven’t listened to it yet. TBH, I have my doubts about that book because I think there will be some blaming of all the things, which happens in every generation. Only the target of the complaining changes. (As I said, haven’t read it yet so I don’t know, but I wonder if that is what the book will say.) 

[Bootsie]

5 hours ago, SKL said:

I remember the old days too.  My point is that it's not historically normal for essential goods or services to multiply in cost within one generation.  (Health insurance is just one example.)  So older people, who aren't even in the market for those specific goods or services any more, would understandably find that hard to fathom.

I do not know that the evidence supports this statement.  Food prices in the US have doubled over the past 24 years.  Food prices doubled between 1980 and 2000 (in about 20 years); food prices doubed between 1972 and 1980 (about 8 years)  

Gaoline prices have about doubled in the past 20 years.  They had also doubled in the previous 20 years.  However, previous to that they doubled in only 10 years.  

[Ginevra]

5 hours ago, marbel said:

And then one day, I was out shopping with my daughter, and found myself being shocked at how much clothing cost. And my daughter said "yeah mom, things are more expensive now." And it clicked that I had made another step toward turning into my mother. And I never said it again.

Not to hijack the thread, but I was shopping with da for clothes to go back to college. He said he had wanted another pair of casual shorts, like sweatshirt material. We were in Dick’s Sporting Goods and I saw a pair fitting that description. When I looked at the price tag I was like, “Am I being punked? Is there a hidden camera here to catch my hilarious reaction?” This simple pair of sweatshirt shorts were $99. 
 

Although, ds also thought that was an insane price. 

[Bootsie]

I am not convinced how broadly the notion that young adults today have a more difficult time financially than previous generations applies.

My mom never worked full-time.  She did work part-time at diifferent stages of our lives to help make ends meet.  My family had one car until I was 6 years old.  I was much older before we had a car with AC and an AM radio (and we lived in Houston-type weather).  We lived in a one bath house until I was 9 years old.  My mom got a clothes dryer when I was 6, a dishwasher when I was 10, a refrigerator with an ice maker when I was 13, a microwave when I was 16.  We got a color TV when I was 11 (which got ABC, NBC, and CBS fuzzily if the rabbit ears were adjusted just right--no cable, no VCR, no movie streaming, etc.).   We had one black rotary phone for the entire family to use; we were very careful about calling grandparents because of long distance charges.  My dad worked a second job for extras like Christmas gifts.  We did not take vacations; I was not on an airplane until I fnished college; my mom was not on an airplane until she was in her late 60s.  We had not dental insurance and limited health insurance, we did not have a house cleaner, yard company, my dad changed the oil in his car, and we did not go to restaraunts (it was a big treat to go pick up a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken for special events).  We were an average family in our town.

I went to graduate school in the 1980s.  No one I knew in graduate school lived alone.  Anyone who wasn't married had a roommate, often more than one.  The apartment I lived in was rented for $310 per month.  I just looked and the apartment is now renting for $900--almost triple, but I looked and the graduate assistantship is now quardruple what it was when I was in grad school; thus, the apartment is now more affordable (and they have added a gazebo, hot tub, work out facility, microwaves, ice makers, etc.).  I did get my drivers license at 15 (mostly to run errands for my parents), but I did not have a car until I finished graduate school and had a job as a colege professor.  

 

[fairfarmhand]

I think it’s hard now and it’s always been hard to get started. Hard might look different but it's still a challenge. 

[kbutton]

19 hours ago, regentrude said:

 

Some older people may not see that things are so hard for young people today because their own lives were much harder and they don't think today's youth has that much ground to complain. When you boiled diapers in a pot on the stove and carried coal buckets up three floors, you'll probably find that there's a lot of entitled whining going on. 

I think the characteristics of what is hard now vs. then have changed in some ways, and it makes sense that it doesn’t compute. Hard as grinding poverty or physical labor and hard as stuck using poorly designed tech for every tiny task because we are eliminating all face to face transactions is a hard cognitive bridge to cross. Complicated is hard in its own way, but I think older people sometimes are skipping some of these tasks. They aren’t applying for jobs by answering inane and inapplicable questions on a faceless machine and sending those answers into the void because they are retired. They are doing things for themselves, not themselves and their kids still at home.

I don’t think all of it is lack of empathy or cognitive rigidity. If someone ran down a list of the tasks I do in a week that erode my quality of life but save someone else a paltry amount of money and time (at the per person price but save lots in the aggregate), and they sent that list to a 15 year younger version of me, I would be incredulous and probably run screaming out of the room. First that we had eliminated so much institutional knowledge that people don’t even recognize how much more complicated it is to talk to a machine and figure out a niche problem, and secondly because the tech is SO BAD. I worked in software, and once an upon a time, we cared if stuff worked and was contextually appropriate. It’s laughable now. Just take one well-made program, turn it into a million apps that each do one or two things, and nobody cares anymore if it works or if you are spending more time doing it than if you drove somewhere and filled out a paper form. Or even writing something up and mailing it! 

18 hours ago, Lecka said:

There are also changes in the system of getting a drivers license where I live, and in my opinion it’s made it much more difficult for a significant number of people to get a license.  I think it’s also made it easier for some people to get a license, I think it goes both ways.  It is just different in a way that has different effects on different people, and for some people it makes it more difficult.

Yes!

Where I grew up, we could take a driving test locally. Now if you live there you have to drive an hour away to get tested. 

Driver’s Ed was part of schooling, and it was free. It now costs a mint. We use the most cost effective means available locally, and I think we still paid something like $700 to do the bare minimum for driving for my older one. If we did the “normal stuff,” it would’ve been twice as much. At least.

15 hours ago, kathyl said:

I remember once when one of our dd's was getting distressed about something (again).  From who-knows-where, I told her that HER life will not necessarily look like MY life.  Just like MY life looked nothing like my MOTHER'S life.  And my MOTHER'S life looked nothing like her mother's life (my grandmother).  And so on.  And that that was perfectly fine.  I think seeing the big picture helped her.  It helps me.

Yes. The big picture is important. 

[Clarita]

8 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

the people who are in touch have bought and sold real estate in the last 5-10 years. I think if you purchased your house in 1980 and paid it off, and you’ve not looked at real estate since, the idea that housing has doubled or tripled in cost could be difficult to absorb. So the tiny “starter “ home that you bought is likely out of reach for a couple in their mid 20s. Even tho it doesn’t have granite countertops hard wood flooring, etc. just a basic no frills house is out of reach for so many.

This is one of the big struggles I see with younger people today. In my area a person can comfortably afford a new vehicle and not see a way to afford a house, because a new vehicle can be $30,000, but a house is at least closer to $600,000. I live in a HCOL area housing has more than tripled in cost for sure (my mom's house had quadrupled in price from the 90's when she bought it to when she sold it 10 years ago and that house has still gone up in price since). I like to go to open houses for fun and there isn't a big price gap between a house that has the frills and a house that doesn't have the frills. 

[fairfarmhand]

5 hours ago, Clarita said:

This is one of the big struggles I see with younger people today. In my area a person can comfortably afford a new vehicle and not see a way to afford a house, because a new vehicle can be $30,000, but a house is at least closer to $600,000. I live in a HCOL area housing has more than tripled in cost for sure (my mom's house had quadrupled in price from the 90's when she bought it to when she sold it 10 years ago and that house has still gone up in price since). I like to go to open houses for fun and there isn't a big price gap between a house that has the frills and a house that doesn't have the frills. 

It’s the same here. My dd and her dh have been looking for an ugly but sanitary little house with a smallish yard. They don’t mind ugly for a bit and would be glad to make it nice through the years. It’s a unicorn here, and if they can find it, it’s not much different in price than the new builds with granite wood flooring, etc.

[kbutton]

12 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

It’s the same here. My dd and her dh have been looking for an ugly but sanitary little house with a smallish yard. They don’t mind ugly for a bit and would be glad to make it nice through the years. It’s a unicorn here, and if they can find it, it’s not much different in price than the new builds with granite wood flooring, etc.

I blame house flipping for that. It used to be that ugly made a difference in price.

[wintermom]

On 8/24/2024 at 9:04 PM, fairfarmhand said:

I can’t put my finger on what’s the difference. It’s not just money matters. It’s also the challenges of modern life, most families needing 2 incomes which means less Time to do other things, the pace of life, etc. so how do some folks stay in touch and others lose touch with what others are facing?

It is so dependent on multiple factors for the aging person. Things like; what is their baseline intelligence, what is their current mental faculties, what was their lived experience in their youth and how much of that do they remember accurately, what is their lived experience now, how willing are they at keeping up with the current state of affairs, how often do they talk at length to people in the working world, where do their interests lie, etc.? No two elderly people are the same.

Edited August 26 by wintermom

[Bootsie]

We all overweight our own exxperiences and draw conclusions about what is normal.  It is not just previous generations that do that.  Real estate markets are highly localized, but there is evidence that the older generations faced MORE housing price increeases than the current younger generation.   Housing in the US, on average, has doubled in price over the past since 1998 (about 25 years).  It had doubled also doubled since about 1980 (about 18 years).  It also doubled in about 7 years in the 1970s.  

[J-rap]

In my experience, it has to do with our own experiences and worldviews.  

For example, my parents have always been very compassionate, other-oriented people.  I'm sure as a result it's been easier for them to trust (even if they don't understand) that younger generations make different decisions for different reasons.