Would you EVER chase?

[Sneezyone]

3 hours ago, Katy said:

No, definitely not. But I read some book about different cultures that settled America and it basically described the sort of culture that would as Scotch-Irish, the dominant culture of the South. And at least two of my family members probably would do something like this… not to kids, but one of them confronted a homeless people that assaulted them on TWO separate occasions. Two separate people I mean. Once in the Midwest, once in California. In both cases cops were called, homeless person arrested. The police warned them that while what they admitted doing was technically protected self-defense, it’s also a really bad idea to escalate a situation with a mentally unstable person instead of de-escalate it and wait for police. 

And my grandmother told me a story a couple of weeks ago about how when she was visiting when I was a baby this guy in a parking lot jostled her to the point of pushing her glasses off her head to the ground. My dad was off duty but threatened to arrest the guy. Apparently he apologized, but not until badge and handcuffs were pulled. 
 

Anyway the book pointed out that the culture is the reason most military enlisted are from the South. 

So, the Scotch-Irish were employed as indentured folks first and then as slave masters/handlers and then as the first LEOs. It’s not cultural. It’s conditioned behavior.https://www.jstor.org/stable/24539126 

[maize]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

So, the Scotch-Irish were employed as indentured folks first and then as slave masters/handlers and then as the first LEOs. It’s not cultural. It’s conditioned behavior.https://www.jstor.org/stable/24539126 

Honor culture IS cultural.

Lots of anthropological studies on it.

Of course, culture itself is a form of conditioning. 

[Sneezyone]

24 minutes ago, maize said:

Honor culture IS cultural.

Lots of anthropological studies on it.

Of course, culture itself is a form of conditioning. 

Sure but that is NOT regional culture in the US, which is what the post asked about. It’s NOT ‘southern’. The south equally belongs to the enslaved and formerly enslaved (after indigenous populations, obvs.) and this behavior doesn’t represent them. At all. Ever.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Clemsondana]

I can't imagine that I would chase somebody unless it was to rescue a kidnapping victim or something similar.  But, I think it's foolish to do something and expect the recipient or the prank to be the 'bigger person'.  You have no way of knowing what is going on with somebody. There's always a risk that somebody in the victim household is not sober, mentally stable, afraid because your prank comes on the back of a creepy phone call, or a host of other issues.  When I was growing up my family would have rolled their eyes at teen behavior.  But, one time an ex came home on leave from the military and kept showing up at places where I was.  Another time a parent was getting death threats over a problem at work.  Another time our house was burglarized.  These were stressful incidents scattered over my 18 years at home, so it's not as if we normally had a lot of drama.  When those things were current issues, my whole family was on edge, even though people who were just acquaintances wouldn't have known about it.  If there was somebody doing anything weird at our house during those times, 'teen prank' wouldn't have been the first thought on any of our minds.  

[KidsHappen]

In TN showing your buttocks in public is a misdemeanor public indecency charge. So you could possible get a fine for it but it is certainly not worthy of death. Not really even worth getting your ire up. The man definitely deserved the charge he received.

[easypeasy]

I would chase if someone had come into my home and murdered or physically assaulted somebody. 

Literally the only reason.  

I think murder is an appropriate charge. Mooning someone or doorbell ditching is about as a harmless prank as possible for teens to do. I hate that this world is so triggered right now that teens can’t be dumb and goofy in harmless ways without fearing for their safety or their very lives. No wonder so many stay inside staring at their phones all day and all night. 
 

 

[kbutton]

 

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

I read that too. It’s very interesting.In the past tho in the hills and hollers there was no law no law enforcement so people tended to manage things themselves. And it wasn’t always ethical the way they did it. 

The Hatfields and McCoys come to mind, lol! And I believe many are descendants of Scots-Irish Jacobites from the Highlands where clans dealt with things. 

It fits half of DH's Scots-Irish ancestors (and maybe more). His grandfather was nicknamed The Judge and discouraged people from looking into his past. 😬

39 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Sure but that is NOT regional culture in the US, which is what the post asked about. It’s NOT ‘southern’. The south equally belongs to the enslaved and formerly enslaved (after indigenous populations, obvs.) and this behavior doesn’t represent them. At all. Ever.

I think of it more as Appalachian than Southern. 

[Sneezyone]

Just now, kbutton said:

 

The Hatfields and McCoys come to mind, lol! And I believe many are descendants of Scots-Irish Jacobites from the Highlands where clans dealt with things. 

It fits half of DH's Scots-Irish ancestors (and maybe more). His grandfather was nicknamed The Judge and discouraged people from looking into his past. 😬

I think of it more as Appalachian than Southern. 

It’s not even that. Understand the origin.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatfield–McCoy_feud

[fairfarmhand]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

It is and it isn’t. The culture, like other regressive and oppressive ones, isn’t deified or upheld as sacrosanct, it’s conditional and applied to advantage and disadvantage those who hold power. These ‘leave people alone’ norms are just that, norms, that are violated every time govt. invades household/doctor medical conversations (which these folks often, not always, support).

Yes you are absolutely right. And just because something is common in a particular culture or people group does not make it right. It’s interesting that there are so many wonderful generous and loving people of all races in the south and it’s the ignorant fools that give us all a bad name. 

[kbutton]

14 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

It’s not even that. Understand the origin.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatfield–McCoy_feud

I don't understand how that explains that retaliation culture (or at least taking revenge/justice into your own hands) is not retaliation culture split along lines of family/clan/viewpoint/rivals loyalty. All of which is what I understand to be an Appalachian/Scots-Irish thing.

I can see not thinking this is a broader southern thing (or is confined to white southern culture), but I don't understand how this clears it up at all.

Or is it that the guy in this instance didn't take his dudebros or family with him to run the kids down?

I really am completely missing what you're driving at with the Appalachian/Hatfield-McCoy dynamic and am interested in what you mean if you have the inclination and time to connect the dots I'm missing. If not, no big deal. 

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I don't understand how that explains that retaliation culture (or at least taking revenge/justice into your own hands) is not retaliation culture split along lines of family/clan/viewpoint/rivals loyalty. All of which is what I understand to be an Appalachian/Scots-Irish thing.

I can see not thinking this is a broader southern thing (or is confined to white southern culture), but I don't understand how this clears it up at all.

Or is it that the guy in this instance didn't take his dudebros or family with him to run the kids down?

I really am completely missing what you're driving at with the Appalachian/Hatfield-McCoy dynamic and am interested in what you mean if you have the inclination and time to connect the dots I'm missing. If not, no big deal. 

That *entire* dynamic was kicked off by the loss of a single individual who fought for the union. It’s always been about freedom for Me and not for thee for this SUBGROUP of southerners.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

This behavior is purely and exclusively owned by those who feel entitled to a trouble-free, inconvenience-free, crime-free life. They are more concentrated among armed, dominant people groups who’re concentrated in different parts of the country and have, historically been indulged in their delusions of grandeur/entitlement but it could be anyone, anywhere who shares this mindset.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Sneezyone

[J-rap]

It does seem that out-of-control violent reactions in the moment to somewhat minor events are on the rise.

Teenagers mooning me at my home would really bother me and cause me to be angry, for sure, but my reaction would probably be to call the police...not to physically hurt them.

For the same reason, I sometimes think twice these days when I honk at a car.  I've heard more and more stories recently about the recipient of the honk losing control of their temper after being honked at.  

As far as who I might chase...  If I saw someone flagrantly doing something like destroying someone's property or worse -- hitting a dog or person and fleeing -- I might chase them for a bit to try and get their license plate, but not with the intent of trying to actually catch up with them to do them harm.  

[Farrar]

31 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

This behavior is purely and exclusively owned by those who feel entitled to a trouble-free, inconvenience-free, crime-free life. They are more concentrated among armed, dominant people groups who’re concentrated in different parts of the country and have, historically been indulged in their delusions of grandeur/entitlement but it could be anyone, anywhere who shares this mindset.

Yes. This sums up something about it that really has bothered me. It's not just about "honor"... it strikes me that the base expectations of somehow avoiding anyone ever being threatening or unusual or anything else are really entitled and represent a particular set of expectations that most Americans never have in the first place.

[SKL]

I'm confused as to how this California resident named Anurag Chandra has become a white southern US redneck with Scotch-Irish roots.

We really don't know why this man acted as he did.

I've got my fair share of Friends in Low Places, but none of them would deliberately ram a car full of teens, especially not for a childish prank.

This guy was just a mean sonofabitch, and I don't think he learned it from US culture.

[Pawz4me]

7 hours ago, J-rap said:

 

For the same reason, I sometimes think twice these days when I honk at a car.  I've heard more and more stories recently about the recipient of the honk losing control of their temper after being honked at.

Warning, bit of an early morning rambling tangent -- This comment about horn honking is interesting to me from a regional (maybe cultural) standpoint. Here in my area of NC it used to be very unusual to hear anyone honk a horn. Only if there was truly imminent danger involved. It absolutely wasn't done if (for example) you were in line at a light, the light changed to green and the person in front didn't go immediately. You politely and patiently (usually) waited for them to notice the light had changed. Now honking in that situation still isn't super common, but it's much less uncommon. Is the loss of what used to be chalked up to patience and politeness due to people from other regions/cultures having moved here (which there has been a lot of) or is it due to people in general becoming less patient and less polite? Probably some of both? Instead of the emphasis being on the other person (give him a little time, bless his heart) it's now more on the self (I'm in a hurry, that guy needs to MOVE). I tend to think a lot of this is due to the rise in "all about me" thinking, which ties back to people feeling like they're being disrespected. The emphasis has shifted. Ding dong ditch is no longer just kids being kids, it's disrespecting me by ringing the doorbell/bothering me. Sitting a few extra seconds at a light is no longer about giving the person in front a little grace and patience, it's about me wanting to move right now. Both of which go back to @Sneezyone's point about people feeling entitled to a trouble free, inconvenience free life, I guess. Or maybe it's that so many people feel like they're already dealing with all the trouble and inconvenience they can handle, any more thing, even a small thing, sends them over the top?

[teachermom2834]

I get honked at regularly. One particular route to my house involves making a sharp right turn onto my street from a road that people like to drive about 50 mph on. I slow down to turn on to my street. I signal, slow down, and turn. I regularly get honked at as I do this. Not every time but maybe 20% of the time? 
 

Do other people not slow down to make this turn? Am I not supposed to turn onto my street if there is someone behind me who might also need to slow down for just a moment? I have also, not as often but more than once, been honked at slowing down to turn into my own driveway. I live in a quiet neighborhood. I always signal to turn into my driveway because it is so offensive to slow down when no one should be going over 20 anyway. 

I was once with my teen son who was driving while I was in the passenger seat. We were waiting to turn left into our driveway while a car passed us. So sitting in the road with our blinker on waiting for a car to pass to make a simple turn into our driveway. Quiet neighborhood. We had a car drive onto the grass to pass us on our right because they were too impatient to wait for us to turn into our driveway. 

It’s crazy. I’m moving. And yes I’m in the south where everyone is so darn friendly. 

[DawnM]

I would not chase, however, there has been a rash of these teens ringing doorbells at 2 or 3 am, waking people up, and running away.   The discussions on my Nextdoor group have been concern for teens that do this as people could potentially be disoriented (after being woken up) and think there is an intruder, and shoot.

 

[Carrie12345]

8 hours ago, J-rap said:

It does seem that out-of-control violent reactions in the moment to somewhat minor events are on the rise.

Teenagers mooning me at my home would really bother me and cause me to be angry, for sure, but my reaction would probably be to call the police...not to physically hurt them.

For the same reason, I sometimes think twice these days when I honk at a car.  I've heard more and more stories recently about the recipient of the honk losing control of their temper after being honked at.  

As far as who I might chase...  If I saw someone flagrantly doing something like destroying someone's property or worse -- hitting a dog or person and fleeing -- I might chase them for a bit to try and get their license plate, but not with the intent of trying to actually catch up with them to do them harm.  

I don’t really honk anymore, which is sort of funny because I learned to drive where honking was just part of how you drive. But I have been chased, while pregnant, by a guy who had his blinker on but either didn’t know it or changed his mind. It caused him to have to break (though not terribly hard) when I pulled out of the intersection.   
I also was cursing to myself with the windows up when a semi cab was blocking a parking lot row on a busy store day. He started screaming about what would happen to me if I kept mouthing off.  
So, my driving behaviors are very low key these days.

I wouldn’t chase down teen pranksters but, yeah, I would be leery of teen pranksters. I used to have a group of punks that’d hang out at the homeschooled kid’s house around the corner and just be punky around the neighborhood. I’m 98% certain they’re the ones who burgled our cars, and others in the community. They never got caught for that but that one kid did have later trouble with the law before they moved.

Current young adult neighbor creeps me out all the time. Yesterday was extra creepy behavior that was clearly mental health or substance influenced. Because of his history, I’m terrified to do anything that would make him want revenge. I went inside and risked having my dog poop on the floor instead of staying out there.

[Heartstrings]

8 hours ago, SKL said:

 

This guy was just a mean sonofabitch, and I don't think he learned it from US culture.

He does seem to fit right in though doesn’t he?  We have plenty of examples of white Americans acting just foolishly.  Blaming this behavior on his being an immigrant, or being the son or grandson of immigrants, ignores the fact that it’s just as likely to have been a white dude.  We can hardly distance ourselves from this by saying it’s not US culture when everyday violence really is deeply ingrained in US culture.   We aren’t the only violent culture on the planet, but we’re far from being an accepting, live and let live people.

[KungFuPanda]

I saw this happen on a Covid walk. These teens took a political sign and jumped in their car. Dude ran out of his house barefoot to yell and actually tripped and tumbled on a speed bump. I asked if he was OK. He barely registered me, but responded on the run. (I don’t remember what he said) He goes in, grabs his keys (still barefoot) and tears off after the kids. It was weird and fast. I never left my spot on the sidewalk. I don’t know if he caught up to them. I do know he sold his house and moved less than a year later. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by KungFuPanda

[Heartstrings]

14 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I saw this happen on a Covid walk. These teens took a political sign and jumped in their car. Dude ran out of his house barefoot to yell and actually tripped and tumbled on a speed bump. I asked if he was OK. He barely registered me, but responded on the run. (I don’t remember what he said) He goes in, grabs his keys (still barefoot) and tears off after the kids. It was weird and fast. I never left my spot on the sidewalk. I don’t know if he caught up to them. I do know he sold his house and moved less than a year later. 

Aren't most political yard signs given away for free? I know locally the parties will even deliver them to your house if you live in town.   

[Wheres Toto]

It wouldn't even occur to me to chase down teens committing a prank.   Kidnapping my kid I would try. 

I have noticed a lot more aggressive driving lately.   I'm in NJ, I've been in NJ my entire life so I'm not unfamiliar with aggressive driving.    But I am seeing aggressive on a level that is insane lately.     

Right outside my neighborhood is a narrow, hilly, curvy road that frequently has cyclists riding and barely has 50 feet line of sight in many places.  Speed limit is 35, people generally drive 40-50.     One three occasions in the past couple months, on this road we've had people come up behind us, pull into the lane for traffic coming toward us in order to pass us and people in front of us, who were not going slow probably faster than the actual speed limit.    It very easily could have been tragic.  

I've seen similar type of -get out of my way- behavior quite a bit lately.  I don't generally drive except fairly locally and it's been very noticeable to me.  

[lmrich]

 I would chase a kidnapper or pet snatcher. That is all. And I would lose -can't run fast, and I don't drive fast. 

[knitgrl]

3 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

 Or maybe it's that so many people feel like they're already dealing with all the trouble and inconvenience they can handle, any more thing, even a small thing, sends them over the top?

I am of two minds on this. Compared to most of humanity, both across time and the globe, we live like kings. We can have food delivered to our doorstep, travel just about where ever, whenever we want, we are free of so many diseases that once killed so many, and yet, the comedian Tom Papas has the joke - it's a good day when you don't have to change your password. When I have wanted to do just one simple thing and have to spend half an hour resetting a password and maybe even then it doesn't work, I do feel like throttling someone. Not that is an excuse to chase the poor soul who crosses my path, but I can see modern day frustrations helping to fuel such a response.

[Teaching3bears]

LOL You are asking this question on a homeschooling forum full of mostly middle-aged homeschooling moms.  I cannot see any of us committing murder with our cars.  Maybe go to a prison and ask the same question.
  I would not chase stupid mooning teens with my car.  It would not occur to me.  I *might* call the police.  I would feel quite violated and I might cry a lot if I was already having a bad day so I don’t think this is a harmless prank.  I wonder if I spent my days watching violent movies with car chases if I would be more likely to act like him.  

[Heartstrings]

19 minutes ago, knitgrl said:

I am of two minds on this. Compared to most of humanity, both across time and the globe, we live like kings. We can have food delivered to our doorstep, travel just about where ever, whenever we want, we are free of so many diseases that once killed so many, and yet, the comedian Tom Papas has the joke - it's a good day when you don't have to change your password. When I have wanted to do just one simple thing and have to spend half an hour resetting a password and maybe even then it doesn't work, I do feel like throttling someone. Not that is an excuse to chase the poor soul who crosses my path, but I can see modern day frustrations helping to fuel such a response.

We do live like kings materially, but we also live stressful, disconnected lives with no social safety net.  We're alone in our houses, or maybe with our spouse and minor children.  There is no community, there are no aunts and uncles or grandparents to help out by holding a baby or just offer support.  I may not have to go to the bathroom in the woods, but I also don't have a huge family that can watch the toddler while I go pee alone either.  Then all of the expectations of perfectly clean houses, balancing healthy food with keeping to a budget while getting judged by all the old ladies in the store.  American's don't take vacation days, we work, work, work until we burn out.  We have  access to amazing medical advancements, but at the risk of bankruptcy or homelessness.  24/7 news cycles keep so many people keyed up, its as if the enemy is at the gate 24/7, which is not normal throughout human history.   We may have material comforts but its over all not a healthy society.   

[Heartstrings]

4 minutes ago, Teaching3bears said:

 I wonder if I spent my days watching violent movies with car chases if I would be more likely to act like him.  

I think watching 24/7 news is probably worse.  Car explosions are fun when you know they're fake and at the end of the movie the bad guys go to jail and the good guys crack some jokes. There is a rise and a fall, and a natural end point. But when you listen to very serious news anchors telling you all the ways your neighbors are "other" and how they're trying to "get you" and your children you live in a constant state of agitation because there is no falling point to the drama and no natural time to walk away.  

[J-rap]

3 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Warning, bit of an early morning rambling tangent -- This comment about horn honking is interesting to me from a regional (maybe cultural) standpoint. Here in my area of NC it used to be very unusual to hear anyone honk a horn. Only if there was truly imminent danger involved. It absolutely wasn't done if (for example) you were in line at a light, the light changed to green and the person in front didn't go immediately. You politely and patiently (usually) waited for them to notice the light had changed. Now honking in that situation still isn't super common, but it's much less uncommon. Is the loss of what used to be chalked up to patience and politeness due to people from other regions/cultures having moved here (which there has been a lot of) or is it due to people in general becoming less patient and less polite? Probably some of both? Instead of the emphasis being on the other person (give him a little time, bless his heart) it's now more on the self (I'm in a hurry, that guy needs to MOVE). I tend to think a lot of this is due to the rise in "all about me" thinking, which ties back to people feeling like they're being disrespected. The emphasis has shifted. Ding dong ditch is no longer just kids being kids, it's disrespecting me by ringing the doorbell/bothering me. Sitting a few extra seconds at a light is no longer about giving the person in front a little grace and patience, it's about me wanting to move right now. Both of which go back to @Sneezyone's point about people feeling entitled to a trouble free, inconvenience free life, I guess. Or maybe it's that so many people feel like they're already dealing with all the trouble and inconvenience they can handle, any more thing, even a small thing, sends them over the top?

In our region, it wasn't unusual for someone to give a polite honk to someone not moving once the light had turned green.  In fact, the person in the stalled car would usually wave a thank you.  It's still generally what's done, especially as more and more people are on their cell phones and not paying attention to when the light changes.

I don't think of it as being "all about me" if I give a polite honk to someone who's on their phone and doesn't notice the light has changed; it's a way to keep traffic moving safely, especially when there's a long line of cars waiting.  I appreciate if someone gives me a polite honk if I'm sitting at a light but happen to be looking off somewhere and don't see the light change.

But in certain areas now, I do hesitate before I do even that.

Edited July 22, 2023 by J-rap

[marbel]

Re: honking at stop lights. Around here (Philadelphia suburbs) the honking starts the absolute second the light turns green. I was recently on a road with a lot of lights and had to stop at  each one, and every single time someone behind me honked. I was never the first in line but the people ahead of me seemed to be moving along quite well. Certainly a car 3-4 cars behind the leader can't expect to start moving the instant the light changes, but that seems to be the expectation. Or maybe some people feel it's their responsibility to wake everyone up, assuming no one ahead is paying attention.  It's very stressful, hearing horns honking so frequently.  I was taught that the horn was to be used only in case of a real emergency, not someone who didn't immediately get off the mark at a light.  And that there is no such thing as a friendly honk. 

[kbutton]

13 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

That *entire* dynamic was kicked off by the loss of a single individual who fought for the union. It’s always been about freedom for Me and not for thee for this SUBGROUP of southerners.

I see that as separate from the method of ongoing back and forth tit for tat. 

The reason for the tit for tat, yes, I see that. But after the initial inciting reason they were angry they could have had different ways of carrying out their retaliation (even just a one-time retaliation that stopped it all). 

I'm also not suggesting that the guy in the story is taking something from the Scots-Irish culture...I just happen to think there is something in what katy said about that subculture that resonates with DH's family's ancestors and what little we know about it.

13 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

This behavior is purely and exclusively owned by those who feel entitled to a trouble-free, inconvenience-free, crime-free life. They are more concentrated among armed, dominant people groups who’re concentrated in different parts of the country and have, historically been indulged in their delusions of grandeur/entitlement but it could be anyone, anywhere who shares this mindset.

Agreed.

[ktgrok]

On 7/22/2023 at 10:10 AM, Heartstrings said:

I think watching 24/7 news is probably worse.  Car explosions are fun when you know they're fake and at the end of the movie the bad guys go to jail and the good guys crack some jokes. There is a rise and a fall, and a natural end point. But when you listen to very serious news anchors telling you all the ways your neighbors are "other" and how they're trying to "get you" and your children you live in a constant state of agitation because there is no falling point to the drama and no natural time to walk away.  

This. There is medical research that shows your brain does NOT understand that the 5th story about say, a train wreck across town is only ONE train wreck. If you see the story or headline 5 times in the course of the day your brain chemistry reacts as if there were 5 train wrecks. And it doesn't understand that it was on the other side of the country. It dumps fight or flight chemicals even though you are in zero danger. Multiply that by every murder reported everywhere over and over and our poor lizard brains think we are under constant attack. 

[KungFuPanda]

6 hours ago, ktgrok said:

This. There is medical research that shows your brain does NOT understand that the 5th story about say, a train wreck across town is only ONE train wreck. If you see the story or headline 5 times in the course of the day your brain chemistry reacts as if there were 5 train wrecks. And it doesn't understand that it was on the other side of the country. It dumps fight or flight chemicals even though you are in zero danger. Multiply that by every murder reported everywhere over and over and our poor lizard brains think we are under constant attack. 

I recently read that our lizard brains haven’t evolved to distinguish between real or plastic plants, so even fake greenery is soothing  

[KidsHappen]

12 hours ago, ktgrok said:

This. There is medical research that shows your brain does NOT understand that the 5th story about say, a train wreck across town is only ONE train wreck. If you see the story or headline 5 times in the course of the day your brain chemistry reacts as if there were 5 train wrecks. And it doesn't understand that it was on the other side of the country. It dumps fight or flight chemicals even though you are in zero danger. Multiply that by every murder reported everywhere over and over and our poor lizard brains think we are under constant attack. 

Not only that but the longer it goes on the more stressed out you become plus there is sometimes some brain deterioration that happens as you age so the older you get the more likely you are to react irrationally to minor stressors. Not to mention that our country has been through some extreme stressors in the last few years and many do not feel safe. However, I personally could only imagine chasing someone if someone had been kidnapped. Otherwise your secure your house and family and call for help if needed.