Would you EVER chase?

[Farrar]

This story from last week has been really tugging at my brain. I feel like we've talked about this general topic a couple of times here recently.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-man-gets-life-sentence-deaths-3-teens-killed-doorbell-prank-rcna94400

In short, dumb teens pulled the ring the doorbell, moon the random stranger, run off prank in the middle of the night. Guy got in his car and chased them down in a long, extended chase, rear ended them, and then drove them off the road. He went home and crashed on the sofa. Three of them died. He's going to prison for a long time for murder.

On the one hand, murder does feel like an excessive charge. But not that excessive. It feels to me like there's been a real rash of this behavior. Even like, that dumb song everyone is up in arms about has a bunch of lines about chasing people down. It's like, is this just a common way people think now? That they think getting in your car to chase someone down is a good idea... ever?

I was trying to think... is there some situation where you would purposefully go get in your car to chase someone? As I was thinking about this, I couldn't think of anything except maybe if my child was literally kidnapped in front of me. Maybe. It would have to be that the people I was chasing had a literal human I loved with them and I felt I could go over them. I don't think I'd do it under any other circumstances. It wouldn't even occur to me. What's wrong with us that this is now a go to for so many people?

[Kanin]

I wouldn't think to chase, either. It's scary how people seem to have such a hair trigger these days.

[teachermom2834]

I feel like the people I am around feel like you cannot ever walk away from any offense or insult. Like I’m not a confrontational person and I just have always been ok with walking away from someone rather than escalating a situation. But I find myself in the minority. My reaction to something is usually “why didn’t they just walk away?” I mean if someone calls me fat or ugly or flips me off on the road or whatever - I don’t need to defend myself to that. I’m just getting out of there in one piece with my dignity in tact but most of the people I know would consider that humiliating rather than dignity saving. 
 

So yeah I think alot of people I know would chase ding dong ditchers rather than be “disrespected”. As for what I would chase over, it would have to be huge. Like a kidnapping but even then I would be following while calling 911 with the info. I’m not going to be capable of a rescue. It would have to be something that my adrenaline takes over to override my common sense to get out of the situation. 

[Heartstrings]

I would never chase, and I would be absolutely furious if my husband gave chase, even if he didn't go so far as to rear end and kill 3 teens for a harmless prank.  I did grow up with family members like that and it was absolutely terrifying and traumatizing as a child.  I've been in the back seat of the car as a terrified child while the driver chases/follows someone after a traffic altercation, more than once.  Because of that background if my husband was to do something like that he would wake up to divorce papers., I refuse to live that way.

So this behavior doesn't seem new me, I would have been experiencing it in the early to mid 90s.  I think its either being caught on camera more or perhaps the current mood of the country is making it happen more.  

 

So asinine.  Good Lord, how fragile of an ego must someone have to need to kill people for being dumb teenagers.  Geez, I'd rather the teens be mooning people than robbing gas stations or getting each other pregnant.  Just disgusting.   

Edited July 21, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Heartstrings]

8 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

 

As for what I would chase over, it would have to be huge. Like a kidnapping but even then I would be following while calling 911 with the info. I’m not going to be capable of a rescue. It would have to be something that my adrenaline takes over to override my common sense to get out of the situation. 

I agree, someone would have to be literally be running away with a human being before I would chase after.   *Perhaps* if someone ran after I had caught them in the act of some vile crime against a human.  Property crimes would be no.  Annoyance would definitely be a no. 

[SKL]

Pretty much the exact same thing happened to my brother about 45 years ago.  He and a friend or two thought it would be a good idea to egg a house.  They went there on bikes, threw the egg, and rode away.  The homeowner was drunk and got in his car and ran them down.  He literally ran over my brother's bike and my brother had minor injuries, but nobody died.  My brother went to juvenile court and was given a mild sentence (like a fine and having to do some yard work for the homeowner).  From what I heard, the homeowner was not charged or told off.

I do think it's murder if you chased someone in your car and they ended up dead as a result.  It's at least culpable homicide.  You have to know you are driving a killing machine.

I doubt I would "chase" kids who were pranking me, especially if they didn't do any damage.  For sure I would not do it in a way that endangered said kids.  If they were vandals, I might follow them slowly to find out where they lived.  However, I'm not sure about that, because how do I know the youths won't attack and harm me, or come back and slash my tires?

There's nothing new about the fact that some people are horrible at decision making.  Sometimes kids die as a result.  It's murder IMO.

 

[WildflowerMom]

I would never chase.  I can’t think of anyone close to me who would either.   Unless of course someone was being hurt, kidnapped, whatever.  But that’s totally different.   Just someone playing a prank?   Or even breaking in?  Good grief, no.  

[Pawz4me]

13 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

I feel like the people I am around feel like you cannot ever walk away from any offense or insult. Like I’m not a confrontational person and I just have always been ok with walking away from someone rather than escalating a situation. But I find myself in the minority. My reaction to something is usually “why didn’t they just walk away?” I mean if someone calls me fat or ugly or flips me off on the road or whatever - I don’t need to defend myself to that. I’m just getting out of there in one piece with my dignity in tact but most of the people I know would consider that humiliating rather than dignity saving. 
 

So yeah I think alot of people I know would chase ding dong ditchers rather than be “disrespected”. As for what I would chase over, it would have to be huge. Like a kidnapping but even then I would be following while calling 911 with the info. I’m not going to be capable of a rescue. It would have to be something that my adrenaline takes over to override my common sense to get out of the situation. 

I agree with the whole post, but especially the bolded. I'm not easily upset and almost always choose to focus inward--on controlling my own emotions/reactions--rather than engaging in an OTT outward response. The only scenarios in which I can imagine giving chase would be if someone's life was in danger, and that would be just to follow while getting 911 on it. But chase a doorbell ditcher? No. My goodness.

[marbel]

I can't imagine myself chasing someone unless, as you said, they had someone I loved with them and I wanted to follow. I'd be calling 911 too. 

I feel like something happened during/after Covid. I mean, I know people would do stupid/horrendous things after being "disrespected" well before that - I knew a few people who would - but the past 3 years there has been a real change. People are more demanding of their "right" to be respected, whatever that means to them. Also the "right" never to be bothered  or inconvenienced by anyone/anything. 

Doing stupid pranks should not be a death sentence. But I do wish kids would wise up to the fact that it's not 1957 anymore and pranks like this can be dangerous.  

[Clarita]

I would definitely chase if someone kidnapped my kids. Not saying it would be a good idea or rational but I'd do it.

As to the homicide charge yes, this is manslaughter just a matter of what type.

[Shelydon]

I would chase if a someone had a person or pet.  Otherwise, no.

But I feel like as a whole, teenagers have become incredibly disrespectful and that makes people very angry. 

[Garga]

Just now, Shelydon said:

I would chase if a someone had a person or pet.  Otherwise, no.

But I feel like as a whole, teenagers have become incredibly disrespectful and that makes people very angry. 

Aw. 😞 The teens I know are sweethearts. 

[Clarita]

Although what they guy did 3 counts of first degree and 3s attempted sounds right. He ran them off the road by ramming into them twice before ending it with the "killing blow" at 99 mph. I don't know what else to call that aside from murder premeditated and with intent to kill. I mean if it was one hit then maybe not premeditated but with hit 2 and 3 at escalating speeds that's premeditated.

[Farrar]

The fact that it was first degree and not a lower degree or a higher manslaughter charge surprised me. But the fact that he rammed them repeatedly then went home and slept... that was really disturbing to me.

[marbel]

Just now, Farrar said:

The fact that it was first degree and not a lower degree or a higher manslaughter charge surprised me. But the fact that he rammed them repeatedly then went home and slept... that was really disturbing to me.

And didn't call the police to report the accident and get an ambulance - he could have said he passed it on the road and stayed anonymous if that's possible on a cell phone. I'm sure by then the guy was enraged and not thinking clearly. But still, I'd say it was premeditated at that point. 

[El...]

That's insane. The only circumstance I can think of would be if someone took my kid. Then all bets would be off. But over an insult? A prank? No way. I wouldn't hurt someone unless I absolutely had to stop them hurting someone.

What a terrible thing. 

[Farrar]

So, do you think this sort of behavior is actually on the rise or that the way media works now has just made us more aware of it?

Obviously some people have been chase people down types for awhile. But it feels to me like there's more of this sort of behavior than ever before. More rhetoric around it, more justification of it, more general talk about it. And then more people actually doing it. But maybe there isn't. Maybe we've always been like this as a country, but now the media just lets us know it and lets it go viral.

[SKL]

Just now, Farrar said:

So, do you think this sort of behavior is actually on the rise or that the way media works now has just made us more aware of it?

Obviously some people have been chase people down types for awhile. But it feels to me like there's more of this sort of behavior than ever before. More rhetoric around it, more justification of it, more general talk about it. And then more people actually doing it. But maybe there isn't. Maybe we've always been like this as a country, but now the media just lets us know it and lets it go viral.

I don't have data, but I think a lot of why it seems to be a growing problem is because of increasing, more immediate, more widespread media coverage.

Most likely, had this happened when I was a kid, I would not have heard of it.  It probably happened periodically but was not televised, at least not nationally.

I do know that motor vehicle deaths of all kinds are way, way down, thankfully.  Which is probably why they do make the news when something like this happens nowadays.

And, when you think about it - the only reason we know what happened here was that some of the kids survived.  Otherwise who knows what explanation the cops would have come up with?

[SKL]

I would also note that this happened in January 2020.  Before Covid was the factor people consider it to be in how we treat each other.

ETA sorry for the typo ... it was 2020, not 2000!

Edited July 21, 2023 by SKL

[Idalou]

21 minutes ago, Farrar said:

The fact that it was first degree and not a lower degree or a higher manslaughter charge surprised me. But the fact that he rammed them repeatedly then went home and slept... that was really disturbing to me.

Why? Manslaughter means its was done without malice, iirc? First degree murder is with malice, premeditated. Apparently he had time to think about it as he reached speeds of 99mph, he saw them crash into the tree as he rammed them repeatedly, he turned and drove past them without assisting in any way. Sounds like first degree murder fits that situation perfectly. In fact, it would be insane to say any lesser degree fit the crime.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Idalou

[Farrar]

1 minute ago, Idalou said:

Why? Manslaughter means its was done without malice, iirc? First degree murder is with malice, premeditated. Apparently he had time to think about it as he reached speeds of 99mph, he saw them crash into the tree as he rammed them repeatedly, he turned and drove past them without assisting in any way. Sounds like first degree murder fits that situation perfectly. In fact, it would be insane to say any lesser degree fit the crime.

I agree. My thought is more practical than anything. My novice understanding is that it's just really hard to prove that malice, so I was surprised that they were able to win that. I mean, so often charges get downgraded even when the facts seem so obvious.

[wisdomandtreasures]

I would chase someone kidnapping my kids. Other than that, no, I am not going to murder someone with my car because I saw their behind. Heck, they could steal from me. I don't care. Take what you want, just leave my kids alone. 

[Grace Hopper]

Chase? Chase? No way. I’d be too busy laughing because if teens rang my doorbell to moon me, I’d know who they were and that they were doing it because they know me and dh, know our sense of humor. That’s the kind of relationship we’ve cultivated with the teens and YAs we know. 
 

Are there any circumstances under which I would chase? If someone snatched my own kid, I would follow with 911 on the line, definitely not in a way that would cause an accident. 
 

I know people who did follow (continuing at regular speed for that road) a vehicle because they saw a foot sticking out of the trunk where someone inside had kicked out something to get that foot out. Turned out a local college girl was snatched but her actions caused a dozen people to call police who intercepted the perp without a chase. 
 

I really can’t think of any reason I’d chase someone to the point of dangerously operating a vehicle, especially not for a nondestructive prank. In the current climate, it was a foolish, foolish prank by the teens; I’d have been equally sad but less surprised if the homeowner had shot rather than chased them. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Grace Hopper

[marbel]

24 minutes ago, SKL said:

I would also note that this happened in January 2000.  Before Covid was the factor people consider it to be in how we treat each other.

Thanks for noting that; I missed it. I tend to forget that from crime to conviction takes a lot of time.  So much for my thoughts on Covid - though in general I do think it's true, based on my experience working in customer service before, during, and after. 

[Katy]

No, definitely not. But I read some book about different cultures that settled America and it basically described the sort of culture that would as Scotch-Irish, the dominant culture of the South. And at least two of my family members probably would do something like this… not to kids, but one of them confronted a homeless people that assaulted them on TWO separate occasions. Two separate people I mean. Once in the Midwest, once in California. In both cases cops were called, homeless person arrested. The police warned them that while what they admitted doing was technically protected self-defense, it’s also a really bad idea to escalate a situation with a mentally unstable person instead of de-escalate it and wait for police. 

And my grandmother told me a story a couple of weeks ago about how when she was visiting when I was a baby this guy in a parking lot jostled her to the point of pushing her glasses off her head to the ground. My dad was off duty but threatened to arrest the guy. Apparently he apologized, but not until badge and handcuffs were pulled. 
 

Anyway the book pointed out that the culture is the reason most military enlisted are from the South. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Katy
Typo

[ktgrok]

If someone took my kid or pet, sure. If they injured my kid or pet I'd be concerned with taking care of the injured party, not racing after the bad guy. If they just pulled a prank? I might walk out and yell at them, maybe. Not get in my car for heaven's sake, I have better things to do with my time. 

I HAVE followed someone I saw committing a crime - but I was already on the road. The car head of me was driving somewhat erractically, and at a stop light I was able to see in and saw the person driving was hitting and shoving the person in the passenger seat. Looked like a guy beating on a woman. While driving. I called 911 and gave the license plate, car model, and street and then stayed behind them following them until the cops caught up - they were taking back streets into a neighborhood and I wanted to be sure the police could find them and protect the woman. 

I did not stop or intereact with them. 

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, Garga said:

Aw. 😞 The teens I know are sweethearts. 

Yes, even the ones that have a layer of rascal over the top. 

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

So, do you think this sort of behavior is actually on the rise or that the way media works now has just made us more aware of it?

Obviously some people have been chase people down types for awhile. But it feels to me like there's more of this sort of behavior than ever before. More rhetoric around it, more justification of it, more general talk about it. And then more people actually doing it. But maybe there isn't. Maybe we've always been like this as a country, but now the media just lets us know it and lets it go viral.

I missed that this was in 2000. If it had happened today, I’d say it’s a combination of shorter fuses since the events of 2020 plus the fact that we hear about these things more thru social media outlets. 

18 minutes ago, Katy said:

No, definitely not. But I read some book about different cultures that settled America and it basically described the sort of culture that would as Scotch-Irish, the dominant culture of the South. And at least two of my family members probably would do something like this… not to kids, but one of them confronted a homeless people that assaulted them on TWO separate occasions. Two separate people I mean. Once in the Midwest, once in California. In both cases cops were called, homeless person arrested. The police warned them that while what they admitted doing was technically protected self-defense, it’s also a really bad idea to escalate a situation with a mentally unstable person instead of de-escalate it and wait for police. 

And my grandmother told me a story a couple of weeks ago about how when she was visiting when I was a baby this guy in a parking lot jostled her to the point of pushing her glasses off her head to the ground. My dad was off duty but threatened to arrest the guy. Apparently he apologized, but not until badge and handcuffs were pulled. 
 

Anyway the book pointed out that the culture is the reason most military enlisted are from the South. 

Ahem, my family heritage on one parent’s side is Scots-Irish and are definitely NOT characterized by the desire to chase and murder people. Perhaps it was so in those early days, but I am reluctant to blame a specific ethnic population for this sort of behavior. 

[SKL]

Sorry for misleading ... I had a typo - the incident happened in January 2020, not 2000.  A couple months before the first Covid lockdowns.

[SKL]

46 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Ahem, my family heritage on one parent’s side is Scots-Irish and are definitely NOT characterized by the desire to chase and murder people. Perhaps it was so in those early days, but I am reluctant to blame a specific ethnic population for this sort of behavior. 

This dude's name was Anurag Chandra.  It doesn't sound Irish to me.  And he was 45 (I kinda expected it to be an old guy who was losing his mental faculties).

It might be interesting to know why he thought his actions were a good idea, but there's certainly no excuse.

[Katy]

50 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Yes, even the ones that have a layer of rascal over the top. 

I missed that this was in 2000. If it had happened today, I’d say it’s a combination of shorter fuses since the events of 2020 plus the fact that we hear about these things more thru social media outlets. 

Ahem, my family heritage on one parent’s side is Scots-Irish and are definitely NOT characterized by the desire to chase and murder people. Perhaps it was so in those early days, but I am reluctant to blame a specific ethnic population for this sort of behavior. 

I didn’t say anything about murdering people! This is my own family I’m talking about. But definitely more likely to engage than shrink away. The book wasn’t about violence, it was about cultural differences. 

[Heartstrings]

2 hours ago, Shelydon said:

I would chase if a someone had a person or pet.  Otherwise, no.

But I feel like as a whole, teenagers have become incredibly disrespectful and that makes people very angry. 

Pranks and mooning are as old as time.  In the early 90s Bart mooning people was a staple on the Simpsons and TP/egging houses and ding dong ditch are at least older than 80s movies.  Combining mooning with ding dong ditch isn't a huge leap in innovation.  Its not even a crime.  Its an annoyance. 

The person in the wrong here was the ADULT not the teenagers.  He could have just shouted "Get off my lawn" and shook his fist at the air.  Its a relatively new phenomenon that knocking on a door or turning around in a drive way are offenses that one can DIE for, I don't blame the teens for not having caught up with that reality.  Adult behavior has been beyond the pale lately. 

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

then went home and slept

To go home and sleep after ramming a car 3 times at speeds approaching 100 mph is truly evil, deranged behavior.  Psycopathic behavior, devoid of human empathy. 

[Heartstrings]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

So, do you think this sort of behavior is actually on the rise or that the way media works now has just made us more aware of it?

Obviously some people have been chase people down types for awhile. But it feels to me like there's more of this sort of behavior than ever before. More rhetoric around it, more justification of it, more general talk about it. And then more people actually doing it. But maybe there isn't. Maybe we've always been like this as a country, but now the media just lets us know it and lets it go viral.

No data, but I do think its probably on the rise.  Our society has grown noticeably more violent the past several years.   

[bookbard]

I think it would be interesting to see if this is linked to the US gun culture, actually - the idea that it's culturally ok to take some sort of weapon in hand and kill/injure people. In this case, it was a car.

 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

No, definitely not. But I read some book about different cultures that settled America and it basically described the sort of culture that would as Scotch-Irish, the dominant culture of the South. And at least two of my family members probably would do something like this… not to kids, but one of them confronted a homeless people that assaulted them on TWO separate occasions. Two separate people I mean. Once in the Midwest, once in California. In both cases cops were called, homeless person arrested. The police warned them that while what they admitted doing was technically protected self-defense, it’s also a really bad idea to escalate a situation with a mentally unstable person instead of de-escalate it and wait for police. 

And my grandmother told me a story a couple of weeks ago about how when she was visiting when I was a baby this guy in a parking lot jostled her to the point of pushing her glasses off her head to the ground. My dad was off duty but threatened to arrest the guy. Apparently he apologized, but not until badge and handcuffs were pulled. 
 

Anyway the book pointed out that the culture is the reason most military enlisted are from the South. 

if you remember the name of the book, my mostly Scotch-Irish self would love to read it.
Would I chase someone down in a car? No.

But I’ve engaged when necessary.  Years ago I was juggling all three kids into the house when my dog came bounding outside. He was a very friendly golden retriever who immediately heeded the verbal command of sit, but not before he ran in front of a middle age man walking his beagle.  My dog sat when I told him to sit but the man apparently thought he was a threat and hit my dog, then started irrationally screaming at my five year old who was standing on the sidewalk and began to cry when he hit our dog.

I literally called 911 and told the dispatcher, a friend of mine, that this guy had hit my dog and was swearing at my daughter, and I strongly suggested they get cops there as quick as they could. The man was also on the phone to 911 complaining about an aggressive dog(who incidentally spent a lot of time at that same 911 center hanging out with his friends, because it was two blocks from my home and they viewed him as a de facto therapy dog. They’d call and see if I could bring him down to hang out after a tough call or stressful day). 
 
Probably I should have just gotten the kids and dog in the house and shut the door, but I engaged in a verbal fight with this guy about how my pets and kids were to be treated. The cops told him to stay away from my house. So sometimes, yeah, I’ll engage even when it might be prudent to walk away.  But chasing someone down in a car, hitting them and leaving is murder. I’m glad he was convicted.

And that was a completely harmless prank.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again

[Heartstrings]

4 minutes ago, bookbard said:

I think it would be interesting to see if this is linked to the US gun culture, actually - the idea that it's culturally ok to take some sort of weapon in hand and kill/injure people. In this case, it was a car.

 

I think the gun culture stokes this kind of violence, even if the weapon here was a car.  The gun magaizines and surrounding culture are all very "stand your ground" "don't make us revoke your man card" "real men are angry and violent", while also stoking fear of any and everyone.  

[kathyl]

No, I wouldn't be chasing anyone down - with the exceptions others have mentioned like a child, etc.

22 hours ago, Katy said:

No, definitely not. But I read some book about different cultures that settled America and it basically described the sort of culture that would as Scotch-Irish, the dominant culture of the South. And at least two of my family members probably would do something like this… not to kids, but one of them confronted a homeless people that assaulted them on TWO separate occasions. Two separate people I mean. Once in the Midwest, once in California. In both cases cops were called, homeless person arrested. The police warned them that while what they admitted doing was technically protected self-defense, it’s also a really bad idea to escalate a situation with a mentally unstable person instead of de-escalate it and wait for police. 

And my grandmother told me a story a couple of weeks ago about how when she was visiting when I was a baby this guy in a parking lot jostled her to the point of pushing her glasses off her head to the ground. My dad was off duty but threatened to arrest the guy. Apparently he apologized, but not until badge and handcuffs were pulled. 
 

Anyway the book pointed out that the culture is the reason most military enlisted are from the South. 

Yeah, I once read a book where the author said something about serving in WW2 and who were the soldiers he most wanted by his side during combat.  I think WV was one state he listed.  Having lived on the border of WV and in the mountains of SW Virginia, I now understand why he said that.  And I heartily agree. 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by kathyl

[Pawz4me]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

So, do you think this sort of behavior is actually on the rise or that the way media works now has just made us more aware of it?

 

Way back in the stone age when I was a kid ding dong ditch and similar relatively harmless pranks were super common. I may have done it a time or two myself. 😉 We didn't have the internet, endless TV channels, Netflix, or gaming consoles, so kids did stupid stuff like that for entertainment. I don't recall any serious trouble from it. I tend to think back then most adults expected it, and chalked it up to kids being kids. Whereas nowadays it's not expected. And because it's now considered to be out of the ordinary behavior some adults tend to over react.

[Faith-manor]

Hard no. Kidnap a kid? Yes, I will try to chase you down. Otherwise, I will be on the front porch yelling, "Grow the F up idiots!" Then go inside annoyed as hell, and tell Mark all about it. And that is it. That as far as I go, though I might be tempted to rig some sort of gross, but not dangerous, booby trap on the front steps in case they came back that night.

Here is where I think the murder charge comes in. It took time for him to get into his vehicle. It took time to catch up to them. He ran them off the road and left the scene of the accident making it a hit and run as well. He went home and went to bed. He never called 911. This demonstrates incredible depravity, and he had plenty of time to decide NOT to do it. This was not a split second thing. Therefore, it crossed the line into the higher charge. And every state has its own statutes and guidelines for what constitutes involuntary manslaughter, voluntary manslaughter, murder one and murder two. So it might not be murder in some states, but in others absolutely is and therefore, not an egregious severity of charge for what he did.

Three teens are dead for being impulsive teens. They didn't hurt anyone. Literally, they annoyed a human being, that's it. He can rot in prison with all the other murderers and that is okay. With a hair trigger temper like that, we don't want him walking among us.

[Heartstrings]

8 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Way back in the stone age when I was a kid ding dong ditch and similar relatively harmless pranks were super common. I may have done it a time or two myself. 😉 We didn't have the internet, endless TV channels, Netflix, or gaming consoles, so kids did stupid stuff like that for entertainment. I don't recall any serious trouble from it. I tend to think back then most adults expected it, and chalked it up to kids being kids. Whereas nowadays it's not expected. And because it's now considered to be out of the ordinary behavior some adults tend to over react.

I feel like the people most likely to over react to this behavior are also the same people that grouse about kids these days always being on the phone or video game. 

[Katy]

44 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

if you remember the name of the book, my mostly Scotch-Irish self would love to read it.
Would I chase someone down in a car? No.

But I’ve engaged when necessary.  Years ago I was juggling all three kids into the house when my dog came bounding outside. He was a very friendly golden retriever who immediately heeded the verbal command of sit, but not before he ran in front of a middle age man walking his beagle.  My dog sat when I told him to sit but the man apparently thought he was a threat and hit my dog, then started irrationally screaming at my five year old who was standing on the sidewalk and began to cry when he hit our dog.

I literally called 911 and told the dispatcher, a friend of mine, that this guy had hit my dog and was swearing at my daughter, and I strongly suggested they get cops there as quick as they could. The man was also on the phone to 911 complaining about an aggressive dog(who incidentally spent a lot of time at that same 911 center hanging out with his friends, because it was two blocks from my home and they viewed him as a de facto therapy dog. They’d call and see if I could bring him down to hang out after a tough call or stressful day). 
 
Probably I should have just gotten the kids and dog in the house and shut the door, but I engaged in a verbal fight with this guy about how my pets and kids were to be treated. The cops told him to stay away from my house. So sometimes, yeah, I’ll engage even when it might be prudent to walk away.  But chasing someone down in a car, hitting them and leaving is murder. I’m glad he was convicted.

And that was a completely harmless prank.

The book was American Nations by Colin Woodard. 

[fairfarmhand]

I’ve heard David French talk about the honor/shame culture that is common in the south and how it’s similar to that of some Muslim countries.

[fairfarmhand]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

The book was American Nations by Colin Woodard. 

I read that too. It’s very interesting.In the past tho in the hills and hollers there was no law no law enforcement so people tended to manage things themselves. And it wasn’t always ethical the way they did it. 

[bookbard]

1 minute ago, fairfarmhand said:

I’ve heard David French talk about the honor/shame culture that is common in the south and how it’s similar to that of some Muslim countries.

Oh, that's interesting. I was thinking recently about the whole 'keeping face' thing in Asian cultures; 'Shame' is a big thing in Australian Indigenous cultures too. All about creating a stable culture by being very clear of what you do and don't talk about or how you represent yourself. I struggle with balancing the need for people to 'keep face' with a need for honesty and openness. But I suppose an appearance of honesty can also hide deceit too. 

[Harriet Vane]

I haven't read the other replies in the thread yet. 

I think murder is an appropriate charge. 

Chasing the teens and running them off the road for mooning his Ring camera is an outsized, violent response that does not in any way match the impact of their idiotic prank. 

No, I would not chase unless I thought someone was in literal danger (like if a child were kidnapped). High speed car chases cause deaths. 

He could have gotten their license plate number and reported them. 

[rebcoola]

No never I mean I might follow after a serious crime. I asked Dh what he would do and he was like retaliate with a better prank of course. He would definitely chase down a kidnapper.

I think its probably more and different news coverage rather than an actual uptick.  

Edited July 21, 2023 by rebcoola

[kathyl]

I said I wouldn't chase down people, but I just remembered that we used to chase down hunters who were illegally hunting on our property, along with calling the Game Warden.  We were on foot.  Sometimes they were on foot, sometimes on motorcycles or 4-wheelers.  They were always carrying guns - because they were hunting.  And they were always adults.

However, when walking around DC when our kids were young, I very specifically told our dc not to make eye contact with the very aggressive homeless (?) guys sitting on the sidewalk, demanding money.  Because it only took one time making eye contact and watching them get MORE aggressive that I knew that that was not a good idea.

So I suppose it really depends on the circumstances.  But OP's post was just a bunch of kids pulling pranks and that wouldn't even come close to warrant chasing them down.  Videoing them?  Possibly.  But I'm not that fast with my phone either. 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by kathyl

[ScoutTN]

The only time I would chase would be if they had my child.

[Heartstrings]

Is mooning a crime?  I really don't know.  I don't think it counts as indecent exposure, unless maybe its done to a small child. Remember those cute sunscreen commercial where the baby had part of her butt hanging out on the bottle?  

[Sneezyone]

4 hours ago, Farrar said:

This story from last week has been really tugging at my brain. I feel like we've talked about this general topic a couple of times here recently.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-man-gets-life-sentence-deaths-3-teens-killed-doorbell-prank-rcna94400

In short, dumb teens pulled the ring the doorbell, moon the random stranger, run off prank in the middle of the night. Guy got in his car and chased them down in a long, extended chase, rear ended them, and then drove them off the road. He went home and crashed on the sofa. Three of them died. He's going to prison for a long time for murder.

On the one hand, murder does feel like an excessive charge. But not that excessive. It feels to me like there's been a real rash of this behavior. Even like, that dumb song everyone is up in arms about has a bunch of lines about chasing people down. It's like, is this just a common way people think now? That they think getting in your car to chase someone down is a good idea... ever?

I was trying to think... is there some situation where you would purposefully go get in your car to chase someone? As I was thinking about this, I couldn't think of anything except maybe if my child was literally kidnapped in front of me. Maybe. It would have to be that the people I was chasing had a literal human I loved with them and I felt I could go over them. I don't think I'd do it under any other circumstances. It wouldn't even occur to me. What's wrong with us that this is now a go to for so many people?

No. I would not. I think people who do so are deranged and unstable but still criminally liable/culpable. Media consumption habits/derangement aren’t a get out of jail free card and what passes for ‘reasonable’ fear isn’t (nor should it ever have been) defined by anxious, white people.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

I’ve heard David French talk about the honor/shame culture that is common in the south and how it’s similar to that of some Muslim countries.

It is and it isn’t. The culture, like other regressive and oppressive ones, isn’t deified or upheld as sacrosanct, it’s conditional and applied to advantage and disadvantage those who hold power. These ‘leave people alone’ norms are just that, norms, that are violated every time govt. invades household/doctor medical conversations (which these folks often, not always, support).

Edited July 22, 2023 by Sneezyone