Lost submarine

[busymama7]

Crazy story and so very very sad. It seems unlikely but I sure hope they are found.  I apologize if there is already a thread.

[Bambam]

I saw a report earlier that they were estimated to have 40 hours of usable O2 left. I can't imagine being in that sub. I hope they are found and are in good condition. 

[HomeAgain]

The more that comes out about this, the worse it is.

1. The submersible (it is NOT a submarine) was controlled by essentially a Playstation controller.  That's it.  There are no back ups.

2. It communicates only by text messages.  It has no radar or any guiding system.

3. At least one employee was fired for noting the fatigue to the hull and determining a safe depth would only be 1300 meters.

4. The owners/maker of the sub have complained about the "ridiculous safety standards" that "inhibit innovation" in this area.

 

So, it's not seaworthy, they knew it was not seaworthy, they were unprepared, and now the company has killed people due to their own hubris.  The venn diagram that overlaps with the Titanic is a shocking picture indeed.

I feel so bad for those who are inside.  It would not be a pleasant way to die and I hope they can get to them in time, but it's not looking likely.

[Pawz4me]

I feel sorry for the people on board and their families/loved ones, and I certainly hope they can be rescued. But I don't feel sorry for them in the same way I do victims of commercial boating or airplane accidents, or victims of natural disasters. It seems to me they knowingly put themselves at great risk for a thrill ride. When you engage in adventure tourism you surely know there are risks. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Pawz4me

[DawnM]

I watched something last night on this and they were saying that it is only supposed to go straight down to the titanic and then back up, it has a sonar on it, and there were a few other things pointed out that basically said this should not be happening and this is gross neglect on the part of the company that now it is lost and it isn't pinging at all, and the radar system is not working.

I am probably botching the news report I watched, but they said it is NOT good and even if they find it, how are they going to get it out of whatever trouble it is in?

[Eos]

It reminds me of the Into Thin Air story of wealthy people fueling a push for extreme experiences, at the cost of their guides, families, and the world's resources.  I do not wish them ill and feel sorry for all involved but we invented the word hubris for a reason.  Nemesis is a stern mistress. 

[marbel]

I've seen reports that it may have been crushed by the pressure. If that were the case, death would be quick at least. 

Most of the passengers are wealthy middle-aged men but there is one 19 year old on board; that makes me sad for his mother and any siblings. 

[JustEm]

18 minutes ago, marbel said:

I've seen reports that it may have been crushed by the pressure. If that were the case, death would be quick at least. 

Most of the passengers are wealthy middle-aged men but there is one 19 year old on board; that makes me sad for his mother and any siblings. 

Aren't they still hearing banging every 30 minutes or so, which they think is them? That is the last I heard about it

[regentrude]

I hope they are found alive. But...

Anybody struck by the amount of media attention they get per capita, compared to the ship wreck with several hundred victims in the Mediterranean a few days ago? But then, poor migrants drowning isn't exactly newsworthy,  compared to a handful of rich and prominent men in an experimental vessel...

 

[kokotg]

30 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I hope they are found alive. But...

Anybody struck by the amount of media attention they get per capita, compared to the ship wreck with several hundred victims in the Mediterranean a few days ago? But then, poor migrants drowning isn't exactly newsworthy,  compared to a handful of rich and prominent men in an experimental vessel...

 

Yes, this. Also I can't help but think about the irony of this happening to super rich people who paid a ridiculous amount of money to go gawk at the site of an ocean tragedy that disproportionately killed poor people. But it sounds absolutely awful and terrifying and, of course, I don't wish it on anyone. 

[Faith-manor]

34 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I hope they are found alive. But...

Anybody struck by the amount of media attention they get per capita, compared to the ship wreck with several hundred victims in the Mediterranean a few days ago? But then, poor migrants drowning isn't exactly newsworthy,  compared to a handful of rich and prominent men in an experimental vessel...

 

I noted that. Like okay, five people are missing underwater. It is getting a hell of a lot more coverage than far, far worse disasters and mayhem. It really doe show the rich, white man bias. We are supposed to be super concerned because billionaire and CEO are in that tin can? Disgusting. Reprehensible. Meanwhile the ship wreck is nothing but a media yawn. Makes my head and heart hurt!

 

[Faith-manor]

4 minutes ago, kokotg said:

Yes, this. Also I can't help but think about the irony of this happening to super rich people who paid a ridiculous amount of money to go gawk at the site of an ocean tragedy that disproportionately killed poor people. But it sounds absolutely awful and terrifying and, of course, I don't wish it on anyone. 

That is pretty ironic!

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

The experts I’ve seen interviewed say that even if it’s found, there isn’t much anyone can do.  There are only two submarine robots in the world that can go to that depth and they won’t be able to raise it to the surface. It’s also designed to only be opened to the outside with 17 bolts in the door.  
But honestly it sounded like the expert opinions are that there was a leak and it imploded.

[HomeAgain]

5 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

 It’s also designed to only be opened to the outside with 17 bolts in the door.  
 

I see this said a lot as if it's a terrible thing.  But honestly, I don't think opening it should be anyone's worry.  It's obvious that they really should NOT open it if they are at the bottom of the sea, and they're not in a position to make a judgement call of if they should open it near the surface.  If it was bobbing away somewhere it would most likely be found, with everyone searching for it, and opening it then wouldn't help much, either.

Do I think it should have had emergency egress?  Absolutely.  But I can't see that it would help in this specific situation.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

53 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

I see this said a lot as if it's a terrible thing.  But honestly, I don't think opening it should be anyone's worry.  It's obvious that they really should NOT open it if they are at the bottom of the sea, and they're not in a position to make a judgement call of if they should open it near the surface.  If it was bobbing away somewhere it would most likely be found, with everyone searching for it, and opening it then wouldn't help much, either.

Do I think it should have had emergency egress?  Absolutely.  But I can't see that it would help in this specific situation.

Everything I saw was discussing it was in the context of the capsule floating somewhere on the ocean surface which would be best case scenario.

 

[Heartstrings]

3 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

. The submersible (it is NOT a submarine) was controlled by essentially a Playstation controller.  That's it.  There are no back ups.

For billionaires they sure cheaped-out on some seemingly important stuff.   An off brand controller that no creditable gamer would consider suitable to play Call of Duty online, equipment from Camping World, plumbing pipes as ballasts.  Of all the places to save some pennies the sub you are taking to the bottom of the ocean wouldn’t be it.  

I think the myth that rich people are inherently more intelligent than average or poor people should be officially dead.   

[Grace Hopper]

46 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

For billionaires they sure cheaped-out on some seemingly important stuff.   An off brand controller that no creditable gamer would consider suitable to play Call of Duty online, equipment from Camping World, plumbing pipes as ballasts.  Of all the places to save some pennies the sub you are taking to the bottom of the ocean wouldn’t be it.  

I think the myth that rich people are inherently more intelligent than average or poor people should be officially dead.   

This is what leaves me smh. Just the couple of pictures I saw of that vehicle on the evening news… a game controller….what made them think it was safe to go down even 50 feet?

Perhaps it is lack of intelligence. I tend to believe it’s because, often due to privilege and success, some people feel indestructible. Like the 5th level of drunk. 
 

I didn't hear there was a 19yo on board. 

[Heartstrings]

15 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

there was a 19yo on board.

I had not heard that either.   😔

[Grace Hopper]

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/who-is-on-missing-titanic-submarine-passengers-hamish-harding-shahzada-dawood/

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, Grace Hopper said:

This is what leaves me smh. Just the couple of pictures I saw of that vehicle on the evening news… a game controller….what made them think it was safe to go down even 50 feet?

Perhaps it is lack of intelligence. I tend to believe it’s because, often due to privilege and success, some people feel indestructible. Like the 5th level of drunk. 
 

I didn't hear there was a 19yo on board. 

I think that "I am better than everyone else because I am rich therefore nothing bad will happen to me" is spot on. I think the Kennedy clan is kind of a prime example. Death by bumper boats on the ocean. Death by midnight football on skis on a slope with a lot of trees. Death by flying into a storm with a broken controls foot and not certified for instrument piloting. 

I really do not know where the idea that privilege is a safety net that prevents the universal laws of physics from applying to one's body came from.

I too was shocked at just how RubeGoldburg that sub is. 

[DawnM]

3 hours ago, kokotg said:

Yes, this. Also I can't help but think about the irony of this happening to super rich people who paid a ridiculous amount of money to go gawk at the site of an ocean tragedy that disproportionately killed poor people. But it sounds absolutely awful and terrifying and, of course, I don't wish it on anyone. 

It made me think of the Delany sisters in their book, "Having Our Say."  One of them said that she was a teenager when the Titanic sank and all she could think was, "I don't feel sorry for all those white, wealthy people."   She said she feel bad that that was her first thought, but she was honest about it.

[Grace Hopper]

28 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I think that "I am better than everyone else because I am rich therefore nothing bad will happen to me" is spot on. I think the Kennedy clan is kind of a prime example. Death by bumper boats on the ocean. Death by midnight football on skis on a slope with a lot of trees. Death by flying into a storm with a broken controls foot and not certified for instrument piloting. 

I really do not know where the idea that privilege is a safety net that prevents the universal laws of physics from applying to one's body came from.

I too was shocked at just how RubeGoldburg that sub is. 

Lol I think that submersible lacked the elegance of even a simple Rube Goldberg machine! At least from the few pics I saw.

 

[KSera]

31 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/who-is-on-missing-titanic-submarine-passengers-hamish-harding-shahzada-dawood/

I’ve been not reading any of the stories about this to this point because it just too awful to contemplate and me reading about it won’t help the outcome, but I clicked on the above and saw the picture of the 19yo 😥. However misguided the whole thing was, I hope they are somehow able to rescue. 

[pinball]

Hey, 5 more wins against the patriarchy! Amirite?

yay for dead rich white men!

they’re dummies anyway!

/end sarcasm

[kokotg]

50 minutes ago, DawnM said:

It made me think of the Delany sisters in their book, "Having Our Say."  One of them said that she was a teenager when the Titanic sank and all she could think was, "I don't feel sorry for all those white, wealthy people."   She said she feel bad that that was her first thought, but she was honest about it.

the wealthy ones mostly got off, though! It's really startling when you look up the numbers of first class, second class, steerage that survived. But that seems to have been a common perception at the time--"whatevs...rich people!" There's a song on one of my kids' Dan Zanes albums about it (that I assume is from that era): "the rich folks decided to take a trip/on the finest ship that was ever built". It's like the steerage passengers were just invisible, because it's a better story about hubris and all that if they weren't there. ETA: https://courses.bowdoin.edu/history-2203-fall-2020-kmoyniha/reflection/#:~:text=First class passengers had the,survived (Takis%2C 1999). (62% of first class passengers survived (97% of women) vs. 25% of third class (including only 34% of the children)

Edited June 21, 2023 by kokotg

[Corraleno]

I saw an interview with someone who had gone to the Titanic on one of the Russian submersibles, and he said those were much better built and had much better safety precautions. For one thing, they always went down in pairs, so if there was ever an issue with one of them they would know exactly where it was. They also had multiple levels of redundancy for every system, and the inner capsule was a titanium sphere that could be released from the casing and float to the surface on it's own. 

He criticized many aspects of the way the Ocean Gate submersible was built, operated, and maintained; one thing I specifically remember him mentioning was that Ocean Gate's sub had titanium ends attached to a carbon fiber body, and since those materials expand and contract at different rates, it's much more vulnerable to fractures. He said the pressure at the bottom of the ocean there is 380x the pressure on the surface, so even the tiniest crack would lead to a rapid and catastrophic failure. He thinks the odds of recovering the sub with anyone alive is very very low.

I also saw an interview with a journalist who was offered a free ride on the Ocean Gate sub, but said that the dive was unsuccessful and they had to return within half an hour due to mechanical problems. He said that for each group of passengers they block out 5-7 days and allow for 5 attempts, in the hope that one of them succeeds, because most attempts are unsuccessful and turn back. He chose not to go along on any of the subsequent attempts after the first one was unsuccessful.

[HomeAgain]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

I saw an interview with someone who had gone to the Titanic on one of the Russian submersibles, and he said those were much better built and had much better safety precautions. For one thing, they always went down in pairs, so if there was ever an issue with one of them they would know exactly where it was. They also had multiple levels of redundancy for every system, and the inner capsule was a titanium sphere that could be released from the casing and float to the surface on it's own.

This sounds like a much safer way to travel. I would like to see the same in the U.S., in the form of stringent regulations for any business operating such vessels.

[kokotg]

14 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

This sounds like a much safer way to travel. I would like to see the same in the U.S., in the form of stringent regulations for any business operating such vessels.

From what I’ve read, they got around safety regulations because the descents are in international waters 

[mathnerd]

1 hour ago, kokotg said:

From what I’ve read, they got around safety regulations because the descents are in international waters 

From what I read, the CEO refused to go through rigorous certification processes (I am not using the correct wording) and their key employee raised major issues regarding the safety of the submersible and was fired for leaking this information to the press. They have had public warnings by industry experts who were concerned about their lack of safe practices. And apparently this submersible has lost contact with the mother ship on previous missions as well, so this is not the first time.

Edited June 21, 2023 by mathnerd

[Wheres Toto]

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

 

I also saw an interview with a journalist who was offered a free ride on the Ocean Gate sub, but said that the dive was unsuccessful and they had to return within half an hour due to mechanical problems. He said that for each group of passengers they block out 5-7 days and allow for 5 attempts, in the hope that one of them succeeds, because most attempts are unsuccessful and turn back. He chose not to go along on any of the subsequent attempts after the first one was unsuccessful.

I'm sorry but...WTF???  Multiple unsuccessful attempts and they keep trying????   In what world is THAT a good idea?

Gee, we had a problem when we were only 100 feet deep, let's keep trying to go even deeper where more problems are likely to occur.   What a great idea.  I can't blame that journalist for backing out.  

ETA:  do people not understand how dangerous the deep ocean is?   With the pressure, the cold, the dark, the lack of air.  It's not a place for joy-riding.  

Edited June 21, 2023 by Wheres Toto

[PaxEtLux]

Even if the trip were free of all costs, 100% safe, and very quick to get there, I would not want to go.  I can't explain why I feel it is different than, say, the beaches of Normandy, but there are still bodies in that wreckage, and it seems to me disrespectful to go down there.

[Melissa Louise]

4 hours ago, DawnM said:

It made me think of the Delany sisters in their book, "Having Our Say."  One of them said that she was a teenager when the Titanic sank and all she could think was, "I don't feel sorry for all those white, wealthy people."   She said she feel bad that that was her first thought, but she was honest about it.

Wow, they really erased all the staff on the Titanic....the wealthy people weren't making their own beds and serving their own drinks. Ironic.

[Melissa Louise]

I find the media coverage gross, the whole countdown thing...only 20 hours of oxygen to go etc.

They are unlikely to be alive and if alive, to be rescued.

It's sad for those people's families and friends. 

I don't know why it's international news.

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Melissa Louise

[regentrude]

16 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I don't know why it's international news.

It's international news because it has the elements of a good story that appeals emotionally:
a race against time, extreme circumstances, plus the technological difficulties involved.

It is, psychologically, very similar to the Thai soccer team that was rescued from a cave with tremendous resources. Only difference that the people to be rescued were children and thus adding an additional emotional pull (compared to a few billionaires).

But in each case, the story was huge in the media, and the resources thrown at the rescue operation significant. If one did a purely rational calculation, the same money could have saved many, many more lives if used to feed starving children or pull migrants from the water. But human psychology doesn't work like that.
 

ETA: Isn't this the plot of any action movie? Rescue astronauts on a spaceship or a submarine crew or a plane full of people in a race against time + elements/bad guys/technical failure?
 

Edited June 21, 2023 by regentrude

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

Wow, they really erased all the staff on the Titanic....the wealthy people weren't making their own beds and serving their own drinks. Ironic.

Looks like quite a few of the crew were saved.

https://www.lva.virginia.gov/exhibits/titanic/crew.php

[Melissa Louise]

6 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Looks like quite a few of the crew were saved.

https://www.lva.virginia.gov/exhibits/titanic/crew.php

Good! 

[Melissa in Australia]

12 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

I noted that. Like okay, five people are missing underwater. It is getting a hell of a lot more coverage than far, far worse disasters and mayhem. It really doe show the rich, white man bias. We are supposed to be super concerned because billionaire and CEO are in that tin can? Disgusting. Reprehensible. Meanwhile the ship wreck is nothing but a media yawn. Makes my head and heart hurt!

 

Not all if them are white men, 2 are from India. 

The ship sinking off Greece got huge media coverage here. Not only the sinking part of it but also how they repeatedly refused assistance from many vessels before sinking  because they wanted to arrive at Italy. 

 

[Heartstrings]

Today was the first day I’ve heard about the other wreck, and I tend to consume a lot of news.  Other than people talking about how much this sub has been covered vs. the other wreck was the first I’d heard of it. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

My news sources have covered both the migrant ship and the submarine equally.  Obviously the type of coverage for both are different because they are different events with different story lines and background stories.  "Lighter" news sources are more likely to only cover the submarine. 

[Grace Hopper]

4 hours ago, regentrude said:

It's international news because it has the elements of a good story that appeals emotionally:
a race against time, extreme circumstances, plus the technological difficulties involved.

It is, psychologically, very similar to the Thai soccer team that was rescued from a cave with tremendous resources. Only difference that the people to be rescued were children and thus adding an additional emotional pull (compared to a few billionaires).

But in each case, the story was huge in the media, and the resources thrown at the rescue operation significant. If one did a purely rational calculation, the same money could have saved many, many more lives if used to feed starving children or pull migrants from the water. But human psychology doesn't work like that.
 

ETA: Isn't this the plot of any action movie? Rescue astronauts on a spaceship or a submarine crew or a plane full of people in a race against time + elements/bad guys/technical failure?
 

I am also reminded of Baby Jessica trapped in the well and anytime there’s a mine collapse. I do believe people want to hear a happy ending. I also think when there’s a drastic situation, we often imagine ourselves in the same circumstances, wondering what it’s like and feeling dread on behalf of the victims. I don’t think it’s… spectatorism? I think most people genuinely want to hear a good outcome. 
 

As for scoffing at the wealthy, it’s hard to overlook the irony in this situation, given what happened with the Titanic. Noting it is not the same as rejoicing over it. There’s no joy in this for anyone, not anyone I know, anyway. 
 

[Janeway]

The difference between the submarine and the other ship wreck, which resulted in a huge loss of life, is that right now, the submarine is an on going issue. They are not lost at sea yet and the search is still on for presumed alive people. If the people on the submarine died already and it was known, then the coverage would have ended that day. If the shipwreck were an ongoing rescue mission with the hope of survivors, like in the case of the soccer team stuck in the cave, then the coverage would have continued until we all knew how it ended. It is an ongoing story. 

[Farrar]

All I can think is that I hope they died quickly. If that banging was them, that's deeply disturbing to me since at this point it seems very unlikely that they'll be recovered. The death of the migrants is also horribly haunting. These are not good ways to go.

Unusual events, especially with a countdown, make the news and I always feel like there's a bit of a disingenuous dance that goes on where people are like why is this unusual event news where it's like, okay, but we all know why it's news. I think the comparison to the Thai soccer team is revealing that there's something in these types of stories that appeals to people that doesn't have to do with the wealth and excess of the billionaires in this incident but with the general setup of the story. But I agree with the general points about the hubris and failures of capitalism and unequal exploitation of resources on display here.

[Shoeless]

This story is so horrifying because of the absolute arrogance of the CEO of the submersible company.  "At some point, safety is just pure waste" he said.  How many other snotty CEOs are gambling with our lives because safety regulations are interfering with their fun?  

An article on CNN says there are only 10 submarines in the entire world that can go 12,000 feet and deeper. This joker took his tin can to 13,000 feet, but waved off all those buzz-kill safety inspections, recommendations, etc.  Because he knew better than all those experts who were slowing down "innovation".    

He also quoted MacArthur: "You're remembered for the rules you break".  Good lord, what a way to be remembered. 😞

[TravelingChris]

25 minutes ago, Shoeless said:

This story is so horrifying because of the absolute arrogance of the CEO of the submersible company.  "At some point, safety is just pure waste" he said.  How many other snotty CEOs are gambling with our lives because safety regulations are interfering with their fun?  

An article on CNN says there are only 10 submarines in the entire world that can go 12,000 feet and deeper. This joker took his tin can to 13,000 feet, but waved off all those buzz-kill safety inspections, recommendations, etc.  Because he knew better than all those experts who were slowing down "innovation".    

He also quoted MacArthur: "You're remembered for the rules you break".  Good lord, what a way to be remembered. 😞

He also didn't want experienced people on his team.  He ranted about ex-military, ex-shipping people being 50-year-old white guys who knew about deep dives and said he wanted energetic 25-year-olds in another article I read,  Plus he was against regulations.  

The utter arrogance.  I don't care if the engineers building good subs are white, black, Asian, Trans,, whatever- I want them to be experienced and have a lot of common sense and knowledge about what they are doing.

[Melissa in Australia]

5 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Not all if them are white men, 2 are from India. 

The ship sinking off Greece got huge media coverage here. Not only the sinking part of it but also how they repeatedly refused assistance from many vessels before sinking  because they wanted to arrive at Italy. 

 

Quoting myself for correction 

 2 from Pakistan, not India. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Melissa in Australia

[Corraleno]

The head of the company that owns the salvage rights to the Titanic (RMS Titanic, Inc.), who has been to the wreck site more than 30 times on other submersibles, refused to go with Ocean Gate because of safety concerns. He said that ALL of the other submersibles that dive this deep are designed around a titanium capsule that can be released and return to the surface on its own, they have locator beacons, and they can last much longer underwater in case of emergency (more water, more oxygen, more CO2 scrubbers, etc.).

He said everyone is focusing on the idea that the Ocean Gate passengers "have [x] hours of oxygen left," but CO2 buildup may be a bigger issue, plus the inside temperature in the sub is around 33-34* and there is condensation all over the walls, so hypothermia is a serious risk since there were no provisions for the possibility of being wet and near freezing for days at a time. They likely also do not have enough water.

And there are so many reports coming out now from people who have done previous trips with Ocean Gate, discussing all the things that went wrong on their trip — electrical and mechanical failures, losing power, losing communication with the ship, etc. It actually seems to have been quite common for the sub to lose all communication during the dive! That may be why the ship didn't call for help when they lost contact after 2 hours, and instead waited another 8 hours until the sub didn't return when it was supposed to. 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Corraleno

[Shoeless]

I feel the worst for the 19-year-old on the dive. 😥

[regentrude]

8 hours ago, Grace Hopper said:

I am also reminded of Baby Jessica trapped in the well and anytime there’s a mine collapse. I do believe people want to hear a happy ending. I also think when there’s a drastic situation, we often imagine ourselves in the same circumstances, wondering what it’s like and feeling dread on behalf of the victims. I don’t think it’s… spectatorism? I think most people genuinely want to hear a good outcome. 

Baby in well is another good example. 

In addition to wanting a happy ending and the race against time, another factor is that humans need to personalize the story. Every hit film and TV show has a limited number of characters. We can become invested when there are 1, 5, 13 people at risk- but hundreds and thousands are perhaps too abstract for the same captivating response.

 

 

[HomeAgain]

15 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Baby in well is another good example. 

In addition to wanting a happy ending and the race against time, another factor is that humans need to personalize the story. Every hit film and TV show has a limited number of characters. We can become invested when there are 1, 5, 13 people at risk- but hundreds and thousands are perhaps too abstract for the same captivating response.

 

 

Baby Jessica was such a weird story in context.

In 1976, Little House On The Prairie did an episode where toddler Carrie slipped into an old airshaft for a mine.  She was stuck in a small tubelike hole.  The methods used to try to get her out and the worry about various things were eerily similar to what happened to Baby Jessica 11 years later.  It was like everyone was seeing a real life reenactment of something they knew had a good ending years earlier.  I think that's partially the reason the news didn't condemn the parents or spend their time focused on what they should have done to prevent it.

 

For the migrants, we have dehumanized them.  Different countries have passed laws against helping migrants at sea, prosecuting those who help them or provide aid in any way, no matter the situation.  Here are hundreds of Pakistan migrants, leaving due to inflation and lack of work options.  And yet here are two rich Pakistan men, blowing their money to sit in a wonky submersible.  The hundreds are dehumanized, just "migrants" in a hoard.  The 2 men are identifiable - names, pictures, family ties.

Yet they're not out of danger of being dehumanized as well.  There's the popcorn effect, in which the world knows nothing will happen next week, next month, next year with the migrants.  They will be lost to history.  But 4 of the people on the submersible have families with power and cash, and the ability to tie OceanGate up in litigation until they beat them down to the ground.

[Faith-manor]

1 minute ago, HomeAgain said:

Baby Jessica was such a weird story in context.

In 1976, Little House On The Prairie did an episode where toddler Carrie slipped into an old airshaft for a mine.  She was stuck in a small tubelike hole.  The methods used to try to get her out and the worry about various things were eerily similar to what happened to Baby Jessica 11 years later.  It was like everyone was seeing a real life reenactment of something they knew had a good ending years earlier.  I think that's partially the reason the news didn't condemn the parents or spend their time focused on what they should have done to prevent it.

 

For the migrants, we have dehumanized them.  Different countries have passed laws against helping migrants at sea, prosecuting those who help them or provide aid in any way, no matter the situation.  Here are hundreds of Pakistan migrants, leaving due to inflation and lack of work options.  And yet here are two rich Pakistan men, blowing their money to sit in a wonky submersible.  The hundreds are dehumanized, just "migrants" in a hoard.  The 2 men are identifiable - names, pictures, family ties.

Yet they're not out of danger of being dehumanized as well.  There's the popcorn effect, in which the world knows nothing will happen next week, next month, next year with the migrants.  They will be lost to history.  But 4 of the people on the submersible have families with power and cash, and the ability to tie OceanGate up in litigation until they beat them down to the ground.

This.

I don't think this would be a story at all, splashed across CNN headlines, top story, yada yada were it not for billionaire and CEO on board, and yes, their families have the power to force rescue attempts to happen that would never occur for you or I or anyone else on board. This is costing an unbelievable amount of money and our lives would not be considered worth it.