Sensitive topic - DO NOT QUOTE

[Faith-manor]

Just to let you know. He can have your Dd and his friend arrested for theft. 2A is so well protected that most states have no laws making it legal for anyone to dispose of another person's guns (property) without permission until that person is convicted of a felony and only when the court orders it. People are not allowed to protect themselves in this way. The best she can do is document this, record or have witnesses to the threats, and file for a restraining order to prevent him from being allowed back into the house when he is released from rehab. That won't protect her. She can't legally take his guns out. The better plan is to get her and the kids the hell out of there. And yes, she should divorce him so she can get her half of the assets to help her get settled. The thing is, if he gets off the meds and receives treatment, becomes stable and safe, she can remarry him. But she really has NO other method of protecting herself other than to be far away, not in the house because if they are married and the house is still in both their names, he has every right to return to it. The law is reactive,  after the crime has been committed for the purpose of rounding up the criminal. The law does not exist to protect anyone, and is the reason so many women and children end up dead when dads' brains go off the rails.

She can't stay in that house with those guns if he  is coming home to it, she can't legally dispose of his guns, and she can't stop him from returning to the house unless it is tied up in a divorce unless a family court judge has decreed she gets the house. The restraining order is the only thing that a family court judge might take into consideration to prevent him from living there. BUT, even with that, he will likely be allowed to take his guns with him. She won't be safe! Not at all. It sucks. I get it. My father tried to kill my mother and commit suicide - neither act being successful due to his physical condition and lack of planning - and though there was a restraining order against him, since she refused to divorce him (because apparently god hates divorce but not murder/suicide 🙄🙄🙄😡😡😡), she could not stop him from returning to the house when he was released from the psyche ward. It was up to her to find somewhere else to live. She came here, but to be honest, the only reason we were safe was that they discovered his terminal cancer and by the time he got home, he was so weak he couldn't do anything.

I wish I didn't have experience with this. Ugh. But ya. She can't stay, she can't take his guns and could go to jail for that which means he gets custody of the kids until the court sorts it all out which is profoundly dangerous and if convicted of felony theft, means he likely gets full custody, and she can't protect the kids if she isn't with them. Get her the hell out of there! They won't be safe once he recovers enough to be mobile and able to carry out a plan, but they will be safer. During the elapsed time, just maybe he will get weaned off the drugs and recover his senses or someone on the medical staff will have an epiphany, order a psyche eval, and he will get committed for a hold and some folks will figure out what is going on with him. And again, should he return to being the person she married, and a safe daddy, she can always remarry him. It doesn't absolutely slam the door on being a family unit in the future. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Faith-manor

[SKL]

My dad struggled so hard to get off oxy properly ... and he was determined from day one not to let it mess with him.  It's horrible, and not a reflection on the patient.

I didn't see the OP, but I hope the docs can come up with a workable plan.

[Lecka]

I don’t know about other things, but I do agree, unless the husband consents to his friend keeping the guns, it’s just not something that can work out.  
 

Maybe he will listen to the friend.  
 

I think it also can kick the can down the road, because it becomes up to the husband’s friend when the husband gets his guns back.  
 

The person I knew was in-patient in mental health treatment, and part of his plan to leave was to remove guns from the home.  They went to his friend’s house.  A month later he had all his guns back.  I think he had them back after two weeks.  
 

But I know many people who will store their guns away from home.  
 

On the other hand, I can see it being a bad situation if he perceives this as — my wife went behind my back with my male friend, my male friend is taking my wife’s side because he has designs on her….. that would be an awful situation but some people would take it that way.  And then how fast is the friend going to give back the guns if he’s being accused of going after his friend’s wife while his friend is in the hospital?  
 

It’s a good situation if the husband agrees to it, though.  A lot of people will agree and will store their guns elsewhere, I hope he is one of them.  

[Lecka]

I also think the greatest danger with a gun in the house is suicide.  If there’s anything like this, I do hope he will agree to store his guns away from home.  I think a lot of people will say they would never harm their family, but then it’s a different question if their family is worried about suicide.  

[maize]

I'm unfortunately inclined to agree with Faith-manor.

When a person's brain is severely malfunctioning, they are not a person who can be trusted. Malfunctioning brains are not rational, they cannot be relied on to make good decisions. The fact that someone was trustworthy and a good spouse before their brain went haywire does not mean they can be trusted when the part of them that makes decisions has undergone something akin to a nuclear meltdown.

And when guns are involved, drastic protection measures are in order.

I know this close-up. I've seen the complete and utter irrationality. 

There are reasons that I will never, ever, ever, under any circumstances, have guns in my house. A person who, when their brain is functioning properly, would quite literally not hurt a fly--can turn into something else entirely when their neurons are out of whack. And guns make deadly violence far too easy.

And yes, suicide is typically the biggest risk, but frankly a person who is ready to shoot themself is far enough over the edge that shooting another person is not much of a step further. And in the OP's situation, threats have already been made.

As Faith said, if he recovers and becomes rational and reliable again, they can re-marry. I've seen malfunctioning brains recover.

Right now, safety has to be the first priority. It doesn't matter what kind of a husband he was before; at this point in time he is not a safe person.

[Faith-manor]

I didn't like having to give the trophy to Maize due to the sh next matter, but also felt the need to indicate she is spot on with her comment.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I missed the initial posts but would like to send hugs to you and your DD. This is heartbreaking.

 

[kbutton]

I missed the conversation as well, but it sounds really awful and difficult. Hugs and prayers.

[KSera]

I understand the potential need to jump to protective actions if it comes to that, but it still makes me sad that after this very short period of time when he is still in the window for peak oxy withdrawal symptoms, there’s a push for immediate divorce rather than waiting for him to get through withdrawal. When the doctor and pharmacist initially did not want to refill his oxy prescription a couple months ago, his wife and gardenmom were both furious about that and pushed to make sure that he could get more Oxy. This is the very reason why there was the initial refusal. This is what happens and the pharmacist knows it and thought it was a bad idea. Which it clearly was 😞. It just seems super quick to throw in the towel on helping him get through this awful thing that’s not his fault. It would  be different were he a drug  addict or abusive before he was put on all this OXY and then withdrawn from it abruptly. 
 

I really hope he’s about to get through the worst of it and is more himself as soon. 

[gardenmom5]

3 hours ago, SKL said:

My dad struggled so hard to get off oxy properly ... and he was determined from day one not to let it mess with him.  It's horrible, and not a reflection on the patient.

I didn't see the OP, but I hope the docs can come up with a workable plan.

Oxy isn't as bad as the current cocktail.

Would  a restraining order allow the guns to be confiscated?   Yes, he's made specific threats against people. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by gardenmom5

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

Oxy isn't as bad as the current cocktail.

Would  a restraining order allow the guns to be confiscated?   Yes, he's made specific threats against people. 

Depends on the state but usually no. This is because the forfeiture of guns is related to committing a crime not the actual threat of bodily harm. 2A trumps safety every time.

 

Also, no one comes for the guns when they are ordered to be surrendered. Ask me how I know! Yep, we took my dad's guns after he tried to kill himself and my mom. The D.A. threatened us with theft. We said, "Speak to attorneys because if you try it, we are going to interview with the county newspapers and Detroit News, and tell them all about it. It is an election year for you. See how that goes!" And he backed down. But when the court ordered them to be removed, not a single a single cop came to get them. There was ZERO follow through. They don't have the manpower because seizing guns doesn't make the state money, but putting everyone on traffic duty to write tickets does.

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings on this, but your daughter has NO protection under the law. It is entirely reactionary, after the fact. If he kills her and the kids, then there is the inevitable shrug of the shoulders and the wringing of hands because a lot of dead people is better than regulating guns better. Always. Sorry. She has to get out and a long way away from him if he is going to be released to his home after rehab. And then you just hope hat if he does not recover his senses, a divorce and sole custody to her is awarded, and he doesn't have the gumption to go after her from afar. 

I wish I had better news. But I have lived the nightmare, and have nothing good to report.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Faith-manor

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Depends on the state but usually no. This is because the forfeiture of guns is related to committing a crime not the actual threat of bodily harm. 2E trumps safety everytime.

 

Also, no one comes for the guns when they are ordered to be surrendered. Ask me how I know! Yep, we took my dad's guns after he tried to kill himself and my mom. The D.A. threatened us with theft. We said, "Speak to attorneys because if you try it, we are going to interview with the county newspapers and Detroit News, and tell them all about it. It is an election year for you. See how that goes!" And he backed down. But when the court ordered them to be removed, not a single a single cop came to get them. There was ZERO follow through. They don't have the manpower because seizing guns doesn't make the state money, but putting everyone on traffic duty to write tickets does.

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings on this, but your daughter has NO protection under the law. It is entirely reactionary, after the fact. If he kills her and the kids, then there is the inevitable shrug of the shoulders and the wringing of hands because a lot of dead people is better than regulating guns better. Always. Sorry. She has to get out and a long way away from him if he is going to be released to his home after rehab. And then you just hope hat if he does not recover his senses, a divorce and sole custody to her is awarded, and he doesn't have the gumption to go after her from afar. 

I wish I had better news. But I have lived the nightmare, and have nothing good to report.

Some states don’t even have the bare minimum red flag/emergency protective order laws in place so there’s nothing to enforce either.

[lauraw4321]

13 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Depends on the state but usually no. This is because the forfeiture of guns is related to committing a crime not the actual threat of bodily harm. 2E trumps safety everytime.

 

Also, no one comes for the guns when they are ordered to be surrendered. Ask me how I know! Yep, we took my dad's guns after he tried to kill himself and my mom. The D.A. threatened us with theft. We said, "Speak to attorneys because if you try it, we are going to interview with the county newspapers and Detroit News, and tell them all about it. It is an election year for you. See how that goes!" And he backed down. But when the court ordered them to be removed, not a single a single cop came to get them. There was ZERO follow through. They don't have the manpower because seizing guns doesn't make the state money, but putting everyone on traffic duty to write tickets does.

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings on this, but your daughter has NO protection under the law. It is entirely reactionary, after the fact. If he kills her and the kids, then there is the inevitable shrug of the shoulders and the wringing of hands because a lot of dead people is better than regulating guns better. Always. Sorry. She has to get out and a long way away from him if he is going to be released to his home after rehab. And then you just hope hat if he does not recover his senses, a divorce and sole custody to her is awarded, and he doesn't have the gumption to go after her from afar. 

I wish I had better news. But I have lived the nightmare, and have nothing good to report.

I’m going to disagree with this. I practice in a very red state and I have gotten weapons taken away through restraining orders. Talk to a lawyer now. 
 

editing to add, though, that a restraining order is just a piece of paper. Yes it can help you get someone arrested but it does amplify conflict and can make things more dangerous. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by lauraw4321

[gardenmom5]

This has been three plus months.  Drugs were changed to something more addictive two weeks ago.

He likes the high.

His good buddy worked in chemical rehab and recognizes him as addicted. 

His aunt works in drug rehab, and after talking to him told dd her recommendation was to divorce him now to reduce her misery that would come from divorcing him later.

[Pen]

Made a rare visit and saw this thread- missed the OP.
 

Am sorry your dd family and you as mom grandma are having troubles!
 

I am guessing this is related to sil who was badly injured as shared  in a previous post I caught . If so I vaguely recall something about two houses. If there are two houses I would think your dd might want to take children and go to the other house … especially helpful if it had a lot of stairs or something that made it hard for sil. That could be a big safety for dd and children. 
 

since i did not see op this may not be relevant but I knew a woman who ended up in prison and her children taken away by state because she was deemed not to have protected a child from a felony committed by her husband    So I would tend to think physically distancing first . Then figuring out the legal aspects 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Pen

[gardenmom5]

1 minute ago, lauraw4321 said:

I’m going to disagree with this. I practice in a very red state and I have gotten weapons taken away through restraining orders. Talk to a lawyer now. 

She's got people helping find a good family law attorney. 

[Sneezyone]

30 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

I’m going to disagree with this. I practice in a very red state and I have gotten weapons taken away through restraining orders. Talk to a lawyer now. 

Totally depends on the state. FL has used its red flag law something like 5000 times in directly comparable circumstances. https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/01/politics/florida-red-flag-law/index.html
 

Is the same true in Idaho? I have no clue. Definitely need a local attorney to act fast before release from rehab tho.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Sneezyone

[gardenmom5]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

I am guessing this is related to sil who was badly injured as shared  in a previous post I caught . If so I vaguely recall something about two houses. 

The two houses were a rental in another state and the house they own in a different state.  They are currently in the house they own and are out of the rental. 

She has a very good professional job here.

[Pen]

Just now, gardenmom5 said:

The two houses were a rental in another state and the house they own in a different state.  They are currently in the house they own and are out of the rental. 

She has a very good professional job here.

Ah. Much Harder.

 

 It still would probably be wisest to find a physically safe rental in area where she is now and has job — something she could afford to take the children to be in while legal help is being sought. and dangerous violent things can happen even without guns
 

Leaving does give him more power as to house. But there are the physical dangers of staying, plus like with situation I mentioned where no one was killed, but the husband ended up in prison for committing felony against a family member, and the wife ended up in prison for failure to protect the children from the husband, and the children ended up in social services system, foster care, and ultimately adopted by another family.   

[Pen]

And for legal reasons suggest keep a diary / journal/ record of things happening 

[Faith-manor]

Gardenmom, what condition is he expected to be in when he is released from rehab or has he already been released? I am concerned about him knowing the lay out of the house in which she resides.

[gardenmom5]

Ok. She talked with a friend that's a cop in their state. 

Guns are community property.

They're moving out all the mags and ammo, and resetting the safe codes. At a minimum it buys them some time.

They scary thing is she has no idea when he'll be released.

 

 

[Idalou]

The OP referenced the state they are in. It is a red state. It's also a state where it is illegal to possess a gun while having a restraining order, punishable by up to a few thousand dollar fine and iirc, a year in jail. Depending on the county,may be hard to enforce but worth it.

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Idalou said:

The OP referenced the state they are in. It is a red state. It's also a state where it is illegal to possess a gun while having a restraining order, punishable by up to a few thousand dollar fine and iirc, a year in jail. Depending on the county,may be hard to enforce but worth it.

Seems to me the first step would be securing the protective order, yes? Because otherwise there’s no basis upon which to restrict his access to marital property.

[Katy]

I missed the post, but even if she doesn’t want a divorce in a situation where her safety or the children’s safety is in question she should talk to one. The second most common reason I got called for foster children was parental domestic violence or worse, the mom being jailed for finally fighting back. It’s fraught and an attorney will not only help, IME unfortunately kids whose parents have attorneys are much less likely to be put into foster care at all. 

[gardenmom5]

9 minutes ago, Idalou said:

The OP referenced the state they are in. It is a red state. It's also a state where it is illegal to possess a gun while having a restraining order, punishable by up to a few thousand dollar fine and iirc, a year in jail. Depending on the county,may be hard to enforce but worth it.

Her cop friend is giving her advice on what she needs to get a restraining order.

Lots going on, getting names of lawyers. UPS box, account another bank, etc.

She has someone he doesn't really know she's going to ask to stay with. 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by gardenmom5

[pinball]

49 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

I’m going to disagree with this. I practice in a very red state and I have gotten weapons taken away through restraining orders. Talk to a lawyer now. 
 

editing to add, though, that a restraining order is just a piece of paper. Yes it can help you get someone arrested but it does amplify conflict and can make things more dangerous. 

I’m glad you wrote this. I know you’re a lawyer from lots of other posts, just like I know others here are NOT lawyers and do NOT live where the family this is happening to lives.

The best advice is to contact a lawyer and/or law enforcement and find out what can be done NOW

If it was me…I’d get the guns, all the guns and ammo and anything that be a lethal weapon (knives, bats, hammers, etc) out of the house, in a locked rental…preferably under someone else’s name. I’d deal with the legal ramifications if and when they arose.

[Goldcrest]

20 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Seems to me the first step would be securing the protective order, yes? Because otherwise there’s no basis upon which to restrict his access to marital property.

Agreeing with this. I do not know the legalities from state to state within the US. I would take this slowly on a legal front. 

It's good she is seeking a family law solicitor for advice. Drug addiction or substance use does not necessarily preclude visitation or shared custody. In the cases where it eventually does, it appears to rarely be permanent. She may be able to keep more control by being legally separated if that is an option available in her location, and not legally divorced. She cedes much control over the children in many jurisdictions if she divorces him. A solicitor should be able to make that clear. More than one opinion may be beneficial to seek out, as in, speak to more than one to ensure the advice is sound and the outcome being promised by the initial consult seems probable to another experienced in that particular court system. Judges do matter on outcome as well. 

Divorce seems rash at this stage because it will instantly rob her of a good deal of control over the children once it is finalized, and as it sounds they are quite young, this will be a long road and a long fight unfortunately. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Goldcrest

[BeachGal]

Addictions can be very tough to treat successfully but offering some sort of help when he is ready might help to deescalate any potential violence. If your sil knew that you want him healthy again, that might help to keep your daughter and their children safer. Unfortunately, it’s  no guarantee, of course.

I’ve read some of the addiction threads on the Reddit medicine forum and from what I can gather, many MDs will not work with certain addictions while a minority relish the challenge, even recruiting other MDs’ patients, and have had pretty good results. Finding the right MD could be difficult but I wouldn’t be surprised if they network and share ideas with one another and could possibly recommend someone nearby. I could send you links if you should ever want them.

Just to offer a glimmer of hope, my sister-in-law developed a heroin addiction some 25 years ago after being treated for pain. She eventually managed to get off and stay sober. It wasn’t easy for her or my brother but they are still together, doing well and are now grandparents.

The guns are scary, though.

[Goldcrest]

I am assuming he is still also dealing with a significant amount of physical pain, whether or not this is a technical addiction. That is going to need to be managed in some way. I know that is not your focus at this moment, and understandably so, but pain can have a major effect on behaviour even if it seems from the exterior that the pain is being treated.

On top of the medications there is still the real physical pain that must be dealt with in some way, which makes it not an either/or situation necessarily. 

It is not a simple case of "If he loves his wife, he will stop these medications that are being legally prescribed, and simply carry forth in pain out of sheer devotion." It is more a case of "He is in pain. He is being treated legally by physicians. He is also acting irrationally and threatening violence and therefore there are now multiple issues at hand." 

Not to be contrary, but I do not think this is as black and white of an issue as you are describing it, but I fully acknowledge that none of us have the background information that you do which is obvious.

Pain management is never simple. Addiction is never simple. Spousal relationships never simple. There is clearly much complexity to be dealt with here.

Hopefully his parents are available to take over for his care consulting with the medical facility while you and your daughter can search out her legal and safety options and the best course to keep her and their children safe.

Would it be possible for your daughter and her children to come stay with you and she take a temporary leave of absence from her job? From your descriptions he sounds unlikely to take a long flight to track her down and maybe things will be able to settle down and everyone take a breath. The stress level on them both has to have been incredibly high throughout all of this. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Goldcrest

[Faith-manor]

28 minutes ago, Goldcrest said:

Agreeing with this. I do not know the legalities from state to state within the US. I would take this slowly on a legal front. 

It's good she is seeking a family law solicitor for advice. Drug addiction or substance use does not necessarily preclude visitation or shared custody. In the cases where it eventually does, it appears to rarely be permanent. She may be able to keep more control by being legally separated if that is an option available in her location, and not legally divorced. She cedes much control over the children in many jurisdictions if she divorces him. A solicitor should be able to make that clear. More than one opinion may be beneficial to seek out, as in, speak to more than one to ensure the advice is sound and the outcome being promised by the initial consult seems probable to another experienced in that particular court system. Judges do matter on outcome as well. 

Divorce seems rash at this stage because it will instantly rob her of a good deal of control over the children once it is finalized, and as it sounds they are quite young, this will be a long road and a long fight unfortunately. 

The problem is, not divorcing is also fraught. In my state if she remains married and he hurts the kids, she can also be charged and lose them to foster care. Parents cannot win when it comes to safety, sigh. On top of which, without the divorce, he can bankrupt them on the drugs, especially when income is considered joint marital property. The safe parent just has so little protection.

I agree that the best advice is a cut throat, top notch, local attorney,

[Goldcrest]

7 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

The problem is, not divorcing is also fraught. In my state if she remains married and he hurts the kids, she can also be charged and lose them to foster care. Parents cannot win when it comes to safety, sigh. On top of which, without the divorce, he can bankrupt them on the drugs, especially when income is considered joint marital property. The safe parent just has so little protection.

I agree that the best advice is a cut throat, top notch, local attorney,

I do not know the ins and outs of American law by any means, but if there were a legal separation with defined visitation and terms set forth by a court that were adhered to on her end, she should be fine unless she does something that falls under negligence herself. With proper representation, as it appears she can afford and is seeking from what her mother describes, she should be protected in many ways from any criminal prosecution as a result of his actions. Properly set up, it should also protect her financially. "Should" of course being the defining word. Her solicitor should be able to advise her on that and the potential problems on legal separation versus divorce. It has not been my experience that all American courts are a complete and total fiasco for all women. Proper counsel and proper preparation and having eyes wide open is key.

It seems that getting blindsided is often the case of either poor advice or insufficient funds to afford proper advice, rather than a completely incompetent system, as with so many other areas of life. 

No legal document can guarantee physical safety, but financial safeguards are doable in a situation where the concerned spouse has the means for good counsel. Even without a legal separation there are financial options she can pursue both in the US as well as out of the US with international accounts that would allow her to legally shield some assets away from her spouse. Ex-US assets are not subject to US property division laws, but rather the laws of the country the accounts are maintained in. It may temporarily make that money unavailable to her, but there are legal options to shield assets from irresponsible spouses. A sound family law advisor should be aware of these options in her jurisdictions, and if they are not, an experienced financial advisor familiar with ex-US banking in particular countries will. 

It is fortunate that she is financially stable on her own accord. That gives her a large advantage as compared to many women facing a similar situation with an unstable spouse. 

[gardenmom5]

He's being discharged tomorrow 

.  We're out o here tonight.

[Harriet Vane]

50 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

The problem is, not divorcing is also fraught. In my state if she remains married and he hurts the kids, she can also be charged and lose them to foster care. Parents cannot win when it comes to safety, sigh. On top of which, without the divorce, he can bankrupt them on the drugs, especially when income is considered joint marital property. The safe parent just has so little protection.

I agree that the best advice is a cut throat, top notch, local attorney,

Foster parent here with experience in two states:

Almost all jurisdictions in the country will allow (and encourage) children to stay with a non-abusive parent as long as that parent agrees to appropriate safety measures. Often this means not living with the abusive parent any longer.

Pre-divorce, she has a lot more control. Post-divorce the courts give full parental rights with equal custody to just about everyone, even when there is abuse or addiction. 

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

He's being discharged tomorrow 

.  We're out o here tonight.

Drive speedily and safely!!

[Annie G]

Praying for safety for your Dd and sweet grands. 
What do his parents think of the situation?  I hope he gets the help he needs, whether or not the marriage is saved. 

[fairfarmhand]

3 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

He's being discharged tomorrow 

.  We're out o here tonight.

My prayers are with you. Please be safe.

[BusyMom5]

I'm so sorry to read the update, I was hoping you'd have a week or two to get things settled.  I'm so glad she has you there,  helping her.  I can only imagine what she feels like- her world has turned upside down.  

[Spryte]

Oh goodness, so sorry something has happened. I missed the OP, but will be thinking of you!

Drive safely, and stay safe.

[AroundtheCorner]

I’m so sorry. Praying for comfort and safety. 

[gardenmom5]

26 minutes ago, Annie G said:

Praying for safety for your Dd and sweet grands. 
What do his parents think of the situation?  I hope he gets the help he needs, whether or not the marriage is saved. 

We don't give a flying fig what his parents think.  They were abusive,  and encouraged elders to beat the youngers.  They would travel and leave middle school kids in charge of youngers.  His dad's sister nearly reported her brother to the police years ago for abuse.  She's the one that works in addiction recovery and told 2dd to divorce him now.

  

 

[freesia]

3 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

We don't give a flying fig what his parents think.  They were abusive,  and encouraged elders to beat the youngers.  They would travel and leave middle school kids in charge of youngers.  His dad's sister nearly reported her brother to the police years ago for abuse.  She's the one that works in addiction recovery and told 2dd to divorce him now.

  

 

I don't read her post as asking what they think of dd leaving.  I think it was wondering what they think about the addiction.  I am wondering if they are still there.

[gardenmom5]

3 minutes ago, freesia said:

I don't read her post as asking what they think of dd leaving.  I think it was wondering what they think about the addiction.  I am wondering if they are still there.

They left.  Hasta la vista, baby

They won't do anything useful to help him.

 

[gardenmom5]

She turned off the internet this morning,  so I'm relying on my phone while trying to eat 

[prairiewindmomma]

If she has a iphone, she can make sure her Apple ID isn’t disclosing her location by going to settings>privacy & security > safety check.

Lawyer up and safe travels!

[gardenmom5]

8 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

If she has a iphone, she can make sure her Apple ID isn’t disclosing her location by going to settings>privacy & security > safety check.

Lawyer up and safe travels!

I don't think she has an iPhone. His work friend went into Google settings to make sure he can't track her that way.  (No one is on his side, especially those that know him best.)

I really hope it wakes him up. 

She's in process of getting a lawyer. 

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, Annie G said:

  I hope he gets the help he needs, whether or not the marriage is saved. 

So do i.

[Annie G]

55 minutes ago, freesia said:

I don't read her post as asking what they think of dd leaving.  I think it was wondering what they think about the addiction.  I am wondering if they are still there.

Yes, this. sorry I didn’t make that more clear. 

[pinball]

I hope you can do an after action report with your DD…it sounds like lots of red flags were ignored or overlooked.

[BusyMom5]

I thought of setting up a new email with you as the recovery e-mail.  Send all important info here.  Switch accounts so that he doesn't have access.  

I really hope, for your grandkids sake, that he gets help.  My DH and I watched something similar happen to a wonderful family when we were younger.  It made us realize that it could happen to us, even though while sober and rational we think it never could.  It can.  We made a promise to each other that if one of us became addicted that the other would take the kids and do everything possible to keep them away from the addict.  I will keep them all in my prayers.  She is going to second-guess herself.   Remind her this is for the kids snd the man she married wouldn't want his children to see this or live with an addict.