It’s thanksgiving again with my mom

[saraha]

We are having sort of a traditional meal this time. There has been lots of sighing and “doing what my sis and I want” and the demand that if we want traditional thanksgiving food we have to cook it, but we have to cook it at her house, I can’t cook it and bring it. The drama is considerably less than last year, my sister is getting her way and my mom is playing the martyr. Anytime I ask anything, her response is I don’t know ask your sister, I’m just paying for everything. This is directly in response to my sister and I planning and doing al the cooking for Easter and informing her of the plan. So we are going early to cook the food she bought at her house, hanging out and playing a party game I bought, then we have to leave earlier rather than later because I have to get ds23 back for work. I reread last year’s ridiculousness to remind myself that her antics this year are very scaled back. For now. Dh amd dd18 are out of town This week on her 18 trip so I am doing this without him and to be honest I waffle back and forth between annoyance and fear. I am already emotional as dd21 and ds23 and I were in a hit and run accident today, and the fact that my mom hasn’t called everyday for the last 10 days like she usually does makes me very wary. Right now I am obviously on the fear side of the spectrum. Thanks for being my backup guys and my safe place to vent, especially since dh isn’t here 

Edited November 24, 2022 by saraha

[LifeLovePassion]

That sounds stressful, I'm sorry. Vent here anytime.

[Ottakee]

Holidays can be hard.

[Scarlett]

Girl why subject yourself to that?  I feel bad for you.

[catz]

I think someone in my house would suddenly come down with a bug (cough cough) and oh well, guess it's a holiday at home.  

[saraha]

I don’t know why I can’t end it, I just can’t.
i can’t take my kids up to visit my sister now, it is too far one way to not need an overnight and after her terrible treatment of one of my dds last time we tried that, I will never let it happen again. She is great for a one day visit, and she does live the kids, she’s just damaged and unable to hold herself together for longer than a day. So visits at my moms are best for that. They are both damaged to the point of being antisocial. So is my brother. I don’t know how I escaped.

[Rosie_0801]

12 minutes ago, saraha said:

I don’t know why I can’t end it, I just can’t.

You can, you just don't feel comfortable doing so just yet. This shiz takes time to process.

One of these years you'll think "I don't want to," you'll decide not to and you just plain won't.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

You can, you just don't feel comfortable doing so just yet. This shiz takes time to process.

Agree. Also, drawing reasonable boundaries is better than getting so fed up you walk away completely.  My former BIL did that….hasn’t spoken to his mom in 15 years.  

[gardenmom5]

i wouldn't blame you if you gave her a violin . . . . 😜

You can do this.

[LucyStoner]

Can you use the accident as either an out for the whole thing OR as a reason to buy your part of the meal?   “I’m too shook up from the accident, we need to stay home” or “I’m not up for cooking.  I don’t want to put it all on my sister so I’ve ordered the X,Y and Z from the deli”.  

[mommyoffive]

8 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

You can, you just don't feel comfortable doing so just yet. This shiz takes time to process.

One of these years you'll think "I don't want to," you'll decide not to and you just plain won't.

I agree. 

First off I hope your kids are ok from the accident.  How scary.  

Secondly sending you lots of hugs and prayers of support.  I get it.  I don't know that I could do it without my dh.  Thinking of you and hoping the day is calm and goes by really fast.

[Tanaqui]

You can, but it's hard because you're the victim of a toxic and emotionally abusive family structure, and that sort of thing takes time to unravel.

As for setting boundaries vs. walking away completely, if setting boundaries works and that's what you want, then it's better. But if either of those is not true, then it's not.

[saraha]

Well, we’ve been here an hour and a half and I’m pretty sure the cooking together thing will never happen again. 🙄😆 

I don’t know how my sister and I cook or anything without my mom, we are apparently idiots. I don’t know how we haven’t starved to death 😆 but I can confidently say I don’t think this will be what mom wants to do ever again, even as a revenge plot like today was supposed to be. Dh is not here to share things with so thanks for letting me vent! 
I honestly think she thinks we just sit in a state of suspended animation when we are not with her and we can’t possibly know or have learned anything she hasn’t taught us, or experienced with us. She hasn’t cooked a turkey in 10 years. I cook a turkey every month through the winter every year. I also raise and process my own chickens. I can carve a turkey 😆 for someone who swore up and down if we wanted thanksgiving food we had to cook the whole thing, she sure isn’t letting us cook it and is so stressed out and is blaming us. My sister is doing a great job of engaging my kids and catching up with them.

todays coping strategy since dh isn’t here to run interference is every time she says something snarky or whatever, I just go to the bathroom. She hasn’t said anything yet but probably thinks I have some serious gastrointestinal issues😆

Edited November 24, 2022 by saraha

[YaelAldrich]

10 minutes ago, saraha said:

Well, we’ve been here an hour and a half and I’m pretty sure the cooking together thing will never happen again. 🙄😆 

I don’t know how my sister and I cook or anything without my mom, we are apparently idiots. I don’t know how we haven’t starved to death 😆 but I can confidently say I don’t think this will be what mom wants to do ever again, even as a revenge plot like today was supposed to be. Dh is not here to share things with so thanks for letting me vent! 
I honestly think she thinks we just sit in a state of suspended animation when we are not with her and we can’t possibly know or have learned anything she hasn’t taught us, or experienced with us. She hasn’t cooked a turkey in 10 years. I cook a turkey every month through the winter every year. I also raise and process my own chickens. I can carve a turkey 😆 for someone who swore up and down if we wanted thanksgiving food we had to cook the whole thing, she sure isn’t letting us cook it and is so stressed out and is blaming us. My sister is doing a great job of engaging my kids and catching up with them.

todays coping strategy since dh isn’t here to run interference is every time she says something snarky or whatever, I just go to the bathroom. She hasn’t said anything yet but probably thinks I have some serious gastrointestinal issues😆

You are a rock star! Keep doing your strategies to keep you from pinching their heads off. 

[scholastica]

31 minutes ago, saraha said:

Well, we’ve been here an hour and a half and I’m pretty sure the cooking together thing will never happen again. 🙄😆 

I don’t know how my sister and I cook or anything without my mom, we are apparently idiots. I don’t know how we haven’t starved to death 😆 but I can confidently say I don’t think this will be what mom wants to do ever again, even as a revenge plot like today was supposed to be. Dh is not here to share things with so thanks for letting me vent! 
I honestly think she thinks we just sit in a state of suspended animation when we are not with her and we can’t possibly know or have learned anything she hasn’t taught us, or experienced with us. She hasn’t cooked a turkey in 10 years. I cook a turkey every month through the winter every year. I also raise and process my own chickens. I can carve a turkey 😆 for someone who swore up and down if we wanted thanksgiving food we had to cook the whole thing, she sure isn’t letting us cook it and is so stressed out and is blaming us. My sister is doing a great job of engaging my kids and catching up with them.

todays coping strategy since dh isn’t here to run interference is every time she says something snarky or whatever, I just go to the bathroom. She hasn’t said anything yet but probably thinks I have some serious gastrointestinal issues😆

You’re doing so well!! Keep it up! 

[bolt.]

Are you at enough emotional distance that you might be able to find her (totally predictable) antics and her (completely irrational) perspectives maybe a little bit funny? Because they seem hilarious to me. (But I'm not the one who actually has to deal with them.)

[Jaybee]

I have a relative who is not toxic, but who does want to make sure I know how to do things.🙄 I'm not around her often, or it would really drive me nuts, and I would probably say something. We are both in our 60s. She is single. (And this isn't a slight to someone who is single, just that why does she think I can't do anything without her advice?) I am married, have raised six children, and have lived in multiple countries. She has lived in one small town growing up, and one medium-sized city as an adult. Yet, she has to tell me how/when to drive, how to prepare dishes, how to do this or that, and I have refrained so far from asking her how she thinks I have gotten along all these years without her there to guide me. I hope I am able to continue to refrain, because it would really hurt her and I know her intentions are good, but wow! So I understand that aspect of it! Hang in there; it will be over soon and hopefully you can go home and chill out.❤️

[saraha]

So my sister asked my oldest three if they need anything for their dorms or apartment and they were all talking about things they’ve aquired and the stories behind them. My sister loves this auction site and told the kids if they need anything, let her know and she’ll watch for it. My mom got up from the table and literally started pulling things out of her cabinets and handing them out at random to my older kids. The girls live in the dorm so don’t need a Forman grill or a giant electric skillet! 😆 Even though they repeatedly told her they didn’t have use/room for this stuff, she kept telling them to just take it and save it? I finally said if you would like them to have these things, you can keep them until they get real places of their own because I am not going to “hold onto” it for them. She was literally sitting on the floor trying to convince dd19 to take this big cake stand!

 

[saraha]

The food was out for a record setting time of 1 hour and 10 minutes my sister timed it😉We had one hour and 10 minutes to eat and get dessert before she put everything away. Now she is mad because I wouldnt take a full 9x13 pan of green bean casserole home. No one on my family eats green bean casserole. Never have, they are just weird like that I guess. She actually said well take it home and if you decide you really don’t want it, you can throw it away. I said well since you actually like green bean casserole why don’t you keep it and then throw it away when you are done? She responded, I don’t eat leftovers. With a haughty tone. She then dumped the entire casserole in the trash. Now she is in the living room slowly turning the volume up louder and louder because the rest of us were having a good time catching up and listening to the girls’ college stories and she was feeling left out because she’s not the star of the show.
My sister has been poking at her and winking at me conspiratorially. I don’t like that she does that. It’s one thing if mom wants to be whatever, but I don’t think it’s nice to goad her

[saraha]

Hiding in the bathroom updating you guys is keeping me sane…

[Scarlett]

Like @bolt. I do find her predictable amusing. But I also find it sad. Especially when you say she wants to be the star of the show. My mom is somewhat like this and lately has been really rude to me or anyone if she thinks she has been slighted in any way—-real or perceived. 
 

It is exhausting though. 
 

Good job on not taking the green been casserole home. 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Scarlett

[Rosie_0801]

2 minutes ago, saraha said:

Hiding in the bathroom updating you guys is keeping me sane…

So, we're like, cyber-crashing your mum's Thanksgiving?

I've never done that before.

[fairfarmhand]

21 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

So, we're like, cyber-crashing your mum's Thanksgiving?

I've never done that before.

Me neither but I think It’s great! Makes me feel a bit better about all the squabbling here. (Normal level sibling squabbles) 

[saraha]

28 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

So, we're like, cyber-crashing your mum's Thanksgiving?

I've never done that before.

Absolutely!

so we were trying to all play this game called guess the gibberish (which is really fun) and she got mad because she couldn’t guess the answers so she got up and said she quit and started running the garbage disposal. My sister was like “mom! We are trying to play a game” and she said “well I want you all to go in the living room and sit down and watch tv”.  She went in the living room and everyone decided to finish the game, so the volume is creeping back up. And then when ds23 got up to go to the bathroom, she took his folding chair away. I didn’t notice at first and when she took the second chair “I said are you ready for us to go? You seem to be putting the chairs away.” She said “no, you don’t have to go, I’m just tired and I want you to sit in the living room and watch tv”

[saraha]

I swear when I type this out she sounds like she has dementia, but she does not. And extraordinarily she is currently having a disagreement with ds23 (who has had long hair for at least 2 years) that last time he came he had short man’s haircut. He finally just said I don’t know what you saw grandma, but I’ve had long hair for two years. She then tried to get my sister to agree with her and my sister literally pulled up a picture from the last time we came of him with long hair. Instead of being like yup you had long hair, she said well, maybe your hair just grows fast. 😆😆😆

[saraha]

2 hours ago, bolt. said:

Are you at enough emotional distance that you might be able to find her (totally predictable) antics and her (completely irrational) perspectives maybe a little bit funny? Because they seem hilarious to me. (But I'm not the one who actually has to deal with them.)

Once we were done cooking, the rest of it has been funny 

[saraha]

Oh! She keeps telling dd15 she can’t see to read and needs to turn on the light. Dd keeps saying I’m fine, there’s plenty of light coming in the window. She literally just got up, walked across the room, pulled the shade down and turned on the lamp. What is wrong with her?

[Jean in Newcastle]

24 minutes ago, saraha said:

I swear when I type this out she sounds like she has dementia, but she does not. And extraordinarily she is currently having a disagreement with ds23 (who has had long hair for at least 2 years) that last time he came he had short man’s haircut. He finally just said I don’t know what you saw grandma, but I’ve had long hair for two years. She then tried to get my sister to agree with her and my sister literally pulled up a picture from the last time we came of him with long hair. Instead of being like yup you had long hair, she said well, maybe your hair just grows fast. 😆😆😆

How do you know that she doesn’t have dementia?  

[saraha]

Because she has been like this my whole life. She has no trouble with memory, organizing, nothing. It was just too quiet.

 

[LucyStoner]

10 hours ago, saraha said:

Well, we’ve been here an hour and a half and I’m pretty sure the cooking together thing will never happen again. 🙄😆 

I don’t know how my sister and I cook or anything without my mom, we are apparently idiots. I don’t know how we haven’t starved to death 😆 but I can confidently say I don’t think this will be what mom wants to do ever again, even as a revenge plot like today was supposed to be. Dh is not here to share things with so thanks for letting me vent! 
I honestly think she thinks we just sit in a state of suspended animation when we are not with her and we can’t possibly know or have learned anything she hasn’t taught us, or experienced with us. She hasn’t cooked a turkey in 10 years. I cook a turkey every month through the winter every year. I also raise and process my own chickens. I can carve a turkey 😆 for someone who swore up and down if we wanted thanksgiving food we had to cook the whole thing, she sure isn’t letting us cook it and is so stressed out and is blaming us. My sister is doing a great job of engaging my kids and catching up with them.

todays coping strategy since dh isn’t here to run interference is every time she says something snarky or whatever, I just go to the bathroom. She hasn’t said anything yet but probably thinks I have some serious gastrointestinal issues😆

I absolutely support simplifying next years meal to either buy it all or serving soup and sandwiches.  Reducing Christmas dinner to very simple foods is the only real reason my family of origin can celebrate Christmas together without bloodshed.  Now that my dad lives here, I MIGHT do the bigger meal like he prefers (he’s almost 80) but only if I buy it ready made or heat and serve.  

Edited November 25, 2022 by LucyStoner

[KungFuPanda]

I am binging this sitcom. Thank you for the content. 🤣

[saraha]

Yeah, I think it backfired on her. She was all well if you guys want thanksgiving food you can cook it yourself, but you have to cook it at my house. So we showed up prepared to let her have the day off and cook the meal. But she didn’t like that either and it was very stressful for her. 

[saraha]

So we are home now. She had enough of us and so we all packed up and left. Ds23 informs me after We get home that he didn’t really  want all the stuff her took from grandma and could I get rid of it. I said well then why did you take it? He said because nobody else wanted her stuff and he didn’t want her to feel bad. He knows that even if she is handing you trash her feelings get hurt if you don’t want it. So he just took it. Now I have a foreman grill with no drip tray (which my sister pointed out so mom could find it, but mom swore up and down it didn’t need a drip tray), three super ugly plastic platters from dollar tree and a plastic salad bowl. 🙄

My sister and I tried to include her in a discussion about Christmas and instead of doing it on Christmas Eve like we usually do, could we do it the 23rd to accommodate work schedules etc and she didn’t want to be part of the discussion. My sister said well, we won’t cook for Christmas since it won’t be the day we can order food or go out to a restaurant (I think my sister just wanted to have her wants validated and now that she has is willing to compromise) but mom just kept sighing and saying whatever you two want. I thought other than during cooking this visit went much better than others (but that could 💯 be my attitude) but she called me on the way home crying saying it was a terrible day. I said well we can try again at Christmas but she just hung up. 

Part of me feels bad she didn’t enjoy the day, but the other part of me feels like well, you planned the day, we just asked for thanksgiving food for this day. If you had a bad day, that’s on you. We’ll and my sister was poking at her which I’m sure it didn’t help, I’m pretty sure they had an arguement right before we walked in. It was not a success, but not as bad as some visits. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Think of the unwanted gifts as helping her to declutter.  Just give them to charity.  (Or throw out the grill if it really can't be used.)

[Indigo Blue]

3 hours ago, saraha said:

And extraordinarily she is currently having a disagreement with ds23 (who has had long hair for at least 2 years) that last time he came he had short man’s haircut. He finally just said I don’t know what

My mom has made negative comments about younger ds long hair in the past….to me when we have been alone in her house. Today, we visited her. Ds is the first to the door. The very first thing she says to him is, “I just love your hair!”

Your hair argument reminds me of the time my mom insisted we had once eaten together in a restaurant I had never been to that was near a movie theatre on my way home from her house that doesn’t exist. She brought it up again 3 months later. She had been annoyed with me that day because I was uncharacteristically assertive about insisting that we hadn’t eaten there, and that there was no movie threatre anywhere near there. She had to have the last word because she somehow felt “threatened”. She was still mistaken about the whole thing, and just would not be corrected. It had to become a “thing”. 

[saraha]

Thanks everybody for helping me through this day. I can’t decide why today felt different. Either she was being better or I have turned some kind of corner. Either way, when I woke up this morning, I didn’t have the fear I expected to have. She was annoying in pulling the shade down on my daughter reading a magazine by the window when she wouldn’t turn on the lamp like mom suggested and telling dd she was driving mom nuts and stuff like that, but it just felt different. Maybe I’m becoming  different. I will say the crying hurt me though. I don’t want her to cry and be miserable, and maybe my new aloofness  is too cold. But then I go back and read the things I started chronicling on here and think that she deserves my aloofness. 
I dont know, it’s confusing. Anyway, thanks for reading and encouraging me to see the humor!

[Rosie_0801]

You're not being aloof for no reason. You're compartmentalising because she makes it necessary.

[Indigo Blue]

9 minutes ago, saraha said:

maybe my new aloofness  is too cold. But then I go back and read the things I started chronicling on here and think that she deserves my aloofness. 
I dont know, it’s confusing

I go through this thought process. 

[fraidycat]

It kinda sounds like she made the day miserable *for herself*, not because of your aloofness, but because she tried very, very hard to control everybody around her and she met resistance. Other people cannot be controlled. Either she learns the lesson, or she doesn't, but it's not your responsibility.

I'm glad you survived the day and can now rest and unwind.

[Indigo Blue]

4 hours ago, saraha said:

Because she has been like this my whole life. She has no trouble with memory, organizing, nothing. It was just too quiet.

 

If I thought for one second my mom’s behavior was caused by dementia, that would be a whole different story. She, too, has always been like this. 

[Scarlett]

14 minutes ago, fraidycat said:

It kinda sounds like she made the day miserable *for herself*, not because of your aloofness, but because she tried very, very hard to control everybody around her and she met resistance. Other people cannot be controlled. Either she learns the lesson, or she doesn't, but it's not your responsibility.

I'm glad you survived the day and can now rest and unwind.

Yes.  This.  I feel like she anticipated her daughters being unable to cook a big family meal and rushing to her for help.  

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

There are people in my life that I just cannot take too seriously. If they want to get upset, I let them. If they want to be miserable, let them.  If they want to complain, or cry, or make themselves feel bad, I just let them.  I don’t get drawn in and don’t take the situation too seriously.  It sounds like the best way to deal with your mom is just to be Teflon and let everything roll right off you.

I don’t know what it was with older people insisting on giving things to family, though.  My grandmother always piled my mom up with stuff and it drove my mom crazy.  So of course now that I’m an adult, my mom tries to do the same thing and give me anything she doesn’t want. I usually refuse but sometimes I just take it and drop the box off at a donation place. I don’t get it though. Maybe a misguided helpfulness? Or just something that happens when you get older. I don’t know.

[saraha]

And now I am trying to let going the other shoe feeling. It always seems if we have a good visit, three days later she will call and blow it up spectacularly. Now I considered everything but the cooking part a pretty good visit, so am afraid of the other shoe. On the other hand she called and said it was a terrible day started crying, and then hung up. My sister said she talked to her not long after I did, and she wasn’t crying or acting like she had been crying. I didn’t call her back and ask what was wrong. I’m going with the idea that she hung up so she must’ve not wanted to talk about it. 🤷🏼‍♀️Mostly because whatever it is, I don’t want the drama. We’ll see I guess

[Faith-manor]

11 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

There are people in my life that I just cannot take too seriously. If they want to get upset, I let them. If they want to be miserable, let them.  If they want to complain, or cry, or make themselves feel bad, I just let them.  I don’t get drawn in and don’t take the situation too seriously.  It sounds like the best way to deal with your mom is just to be Teflon and let everything roll right off you.

I don’t know what it was with older people insisting on giving things to family, though.  My grandmother always piled my mom up with stuff and it drove my mom crazy.  So of course now that I’m an adult, my mom tries to do the same thing and give me anything she doesn’t want. I usually refuse but sometimes I just take it and drop the box off at a donation place. I don’t get it though. Maybe a misguided helpfulness? Or just something that happens when you get older. I don’t know.

I have this with both my mom and my mother in law. They think I should be the dumping ground for every single thing they no longer want, and get really touchy when I say no. Now they are targeting our sons, and thankfully the three of them are strong against it usually claiming that their apartments are too full, or the trunk of their car is full, or whatever they can think of.

OP, I think you did really well under the circumstances.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Faith-manor

[saraha]

Ugh, during my conversation about the visit today, I mentioned to my sister that she said something that hurt one of my dds feelings (the same one she was picking on the last time we stayed with her and why I won’t consider staying at my sisters any time soon) and now she’s upset with me. She didn’t apologize at the time I brought it up and we moved on to more discussion/venting about mom.

Now I guess sis has had time to think about me saying that what she said hurt dds feelings and is texting me saying all we do is complain and why do we get together at all etc. I was not expecting this, I thought we had a good visit as sisters and with the kids, played a game, worked around grandma. I just can’t win

[saraha]

I wish dh were here, but he is having a wonderful time with r dd18 and I don’t want to spoil it.

I tried texting sis and saying that what she is assuming (that we spend our car rides home ranting and complaining) is just not true. We don’t run everyone through the mud etc. but she’s not reading my texts. So I called and left a message saying I don’t know what happened and why she thinks my family is just saying bad things about every one, but that’s not true and that I thought amongst us we had a good visit. She then texted she’s just tired of it all and going to bed, goodnight.

I do t even know what that means. All I can think of is that my sister mentioned that now that she is paying more attention to moms behavior she sees some similarities in some of her behavior (yup) and maybe by me “putting what she said on her radar” made her feel something. But then she also said my daughter is too sensitive so she’s just going to let it go. I just don’t even know. 
 

[LucyStoner]

Having cleaned out three homes after a single elderly person’s death, honestly my advice is to take stuff they are ready to get rid of and dump it or donate it (if it is in usable condition).  If there’s any chance that you will be the person cleaning out her home, might as well make the job as small as possible by taking stuff away in small doses fairly often.  Might be a morbid consideration and if you aren’t going to be the clean out person after she dies or you can pay a service to do it with estate funds, ignore me.  🙃

Edited November 25, 2022 by LucyStoner

[Tiberia]

Happy thanksgiving!

I would count this day as a success because it went better than expected, and you are not letting it rattle you as much as anticipated.

However, you know the other shoe is going to drop, and it is starting to drop already, and you are getting rattled already. I think this shows that you are changing and starting to disentangle yourself from the toxic family dance you all do, but your next task is recognizing and distancing yourself from the second shoe drop part of the dance.

You did a good job today. You are making progress and you are setting boundaries and trying not to hurt difficult people. Take the win from today and strategize about the shoe drop part that’s coming.

Your kids sound like neat people who understand that grandma is difficult, but they don’t want to hurt her.

 

[Rosie_0801]

You're trying too hard with your sister. She might come around given time, but chasing her won't help.

[prairiewindmomma]

Remember the cycle. Your mom tried to prove you were incompetent and you showed yourself capable. She tried to control the situation several times and failed. She couldn’t maintain a position of superiority over you and she can’t handle that as she must think of herself as capable and better so she’s going to try to tear you down. 
 

Combativeness, the silent treatment, dropping the topic when you bring up things that happened, DARVO, crazy spinning of conversations…you know they will try a new tactic…. The only thing you can do is control your reaction….your thoughts, your emotional response, your choosing to either continue or step away from it all.