It’s thanksgiving again with my mom

[Faith-manor]

What about meeting in a neutral place, maybe a museum, park, Christmas market etc, for two hours prior to the holiday, no food involved? Just no food. She has so much apprehension and anxiety about entertaining, and then the ridiculous control issues over everyone's food consumption, as well as many other control problems, that taking food and her home completely out of the equation seems like a good idea. If she refuses to do it, that is on her. You don't have to acquiesce to her crazy demands. Your family and your sister can then adjust and do what you want such as meet at a restaurant or whatever and don't tell her. You tried to accommodate her in a way that won't make everyone else miserable, she declined, so you made alternative plans which are NOT her business at that point.

[importswim]

Whatever you choose is going to come with repercussions. You just have to decide which ones you can live with and which ones make sense for you. It'll be hard but so is what you're currently dealing with.

Continuing in the same way year after year is also a choice.

However, you get to choose your hard based on your feelings and only your feelings. I'm so sorry that your mom is so stressful. You are a good daughter.

[saraha]

She has always been controlling about food. Not in a restrictive way, just that we could only eat food she liked or eat food (like sub sandwiches) with only the toppings she likes. Growing up we had subs all the time, but we didn’t get to choose anything, and they always had orange French dressing on them whether we wanted it or not. I thought I didn’t like sub sandwiches til the first time I went to subway (which was without my mom coincidentally) and found out subs are good with out that nasty orange French dressing on them! We not allowed to have ham sandwiches with mayonnaise because she didn’t like mayonnaise. Or just like she pretended to ask about what kinds of pizza everyone wanted for Christmas but then ordered what she wanted and blamed it on the pizza place for messing up the order.

So many stories about her controlling our food. My sister and I both taught ourselves to cook after moving out and are pretty good at it if we do say so. But if in conversation what we are making for dinner, or the kids mention a new recipe I tried comes up, she gets all weird and says things like “That sounds gross, why would you feed them that” or “I never taught you to eat like that, that’s disgusting” Like we seriously could not like any food she doesn’t like and is so negative about it.
 

She also had a lot of issues with our clothes. We could only wear what she picked out. And not like in a modest way or anything. I got sent home from school one day in high school because she insisted I wear a skirt she bought me that I knew would break the dress code. But I wore it, and she had to come get me or bring me something else to wear and she went total Karen on the school, even though I told her when she bought it it wouldn’t fly. It is only as I got older and had my own kids and started to encounter things like, yeah this kid just really doesn’t like something I like that I could see how messed up the dynamic was. And the idea of picking out my high schoolers clothes for school everyday just seems so weird. With each new phase my kids went through I see how weird my moms way of doing things actually was.

[saraha]

7 minutes ago, importswim said:

Whatever you choose is going to come with repercussions. You just have to decide which ones you can live with and which ones make sense for you. It'll be hard but so is what you're currently dealing with.

Continuing in the same way year after year is also a choice.

However, you get to choose your hard based on your feelings and only your feelings. I'm so sorry that your mom is so stressful. You are a good daughter.

Yeah, I am going to have to give up on the idea that I can find a win-win-win situation. No matter what I do, someone is unhappy. And you are right, I’m just going to have to choose what kind of hard I want to deal with

[Indigo Blue]

It all sounds so weird and awful. 😕

[Indigo Blue]

I got the idea from this board to stop at a park that is five minutes from her house to have lunch alone in my car before visiting, in order to avoid food issues. It’s been absolutely working out so nicely. So pleasant. Best idea I ever got from here, and I’ve gotten many!! 
 

I know with having children, you are in a different place than I am right now. But I’ve been through the days of having my parental authority undermined, having her to tell my son to lie to me about something, and constant food issues with her regarding what my son was fed. (Junk food issues). 
 

You seem not afraid to be assertive even though she becomes angry. That is good. I hope you find ways to deal and cope that work. Keep the visits short as possible. And I think you are smart to think about removing food from the equation. 
 

I remember being 13 or 14 and not being allowed to get up from the table unless I ate my hamburger meat. I have strong sensory issues with some food textures. I remember thinking “I CAN’T eat it. I CAN’T sit here forever. What am I supposed to do?” After 30 minutes or so she would angrily tell me to get up as she took away the plate. I just went to my room to read or draw while I recovered from the whole thing. 
 

You have my sympathy. It’s unfair that we go through things like this.

[scholastica]

2 hours ago, saraha said:

She has always been controlling about food. Not in a restrictive way, just that we could only eat food she liked or eat food (like sub sandwiches) with only the toppings she likes. Growing up we had subs all the time, but we didn’t get to choose anything, and they always had orange French dressing on them whether we wanted it or not. I thought I didn’t like sub sandwiches til the first time I went to subway (which was without my mom coincidentally) and found out subs are good with out that nasty orange French dressing on them! We not allowed to have ham sandwiches with mayonnaise because she didn’t like mayonnaise. Or just like she pretended to ask about what kinds of pizza everyone wanted for Christmas but then ordered what she wanted and blamed it on the pizza place for messing up the order.

So many stories about her controlling our food. My sister and I both taught ourselves to cook after moving out and are pretty good at it if we do say so. But if in conversation what we are making for dinner, or the kids mention a new recipe I tried comes up, she gets all weird and says things like “That sounds gross, why would you feed them that” or “I never taught you to eat like that, that’s disgusting” Like we seriously could not like any food she doesn’t like and is so negative about it.
 

She also had a lot of issues with our clothes. We could only wear what she picked out. And not like in a modest way or anything. I got sent home from school one day in high school because she insisted I wear a skirt she bought me that I knew would break the dress code. But I wore it, and she had to come get me or bring me something else to wear and she went total Karen on the school, even though I told her when she bought it it wouldn’t fly. It is only as I got older and had my own kids and started to encounter things like, yeah this kid just really doesn’t like something I like that I could see how messed up the dynamic was. And the idea of picking out my high schoolers clothes for school everyday just seems so weird. With each new phase my kids went through I see how weird my moms way of doing things actually was.

You are not a person to her. You are an extension of her. In addition, her sense of self is based in the idea that everything she likes is exactly what everyone else in her family should like. It’s as if it invalidates her as a person for you to have different tastes. 

[saraha]

So just keeping all my mom junk in one place.

She called today to tell da12 a joke. He and she did that for a while. Anyway, I answered as I always do to gatekeep. Over the course of the conversation she mentioned I have a birthday coming. Back in the old days she used to ask me what I wanted for my birthday lunch, then I would drive up to her and eat whatever she decided she wanted me to have for lunch, which never seemed to be what I asked for. Now as host, she can make whatever she wants, it’s the asking and then ignoring that drove me crazy. The last straw was the year before last when she asked what I wanted for lunch and I told her egg rolls. She used to make them occasionally when I was a teenager. She said ok. Then called a few days later and said no, they are too much work. I said ok, we can have whatever, not even surprised. The surprising thing ended up being I get there and low and behold, eggrolls! I was ecstatic! Turns out while eating, she mentioned that she had lunch with her sister and told her I wanted egg rolls for my birthday but she wasn’t going to fix them and her sister said oh, I love egg rolls, so my mom decided to fix them but I can only eat so many because she is taking the rest to her sister. That was the last time I drove myself up there for lunch. The year before that was the last time we went out to lunch for my birthday. I picked a restaurant half way between and she spent a lot of time talking about how unimpressed she was and that I should not have ordered what I ordered, I should have ordered what she ordered.
 

Anyway, so last year I “couldn’t get away” and she was frustrated because she hadn’t given me my birthday card at Christmas like she did the rest of my family, and since she won’t mail anything, I had to wait til Easter. I so did not care. It’s nice that she remembers everyone’s birthday and always calls. So this year she gave me my birthday card back at thanksgiving (just in case we decided not to come for Christmas 🙄🤷🏼‍♀️) when she gave me everyone else’s. On the way home from thanksgiving I handed everyone out their card thinking they all know already she doesn’t like to mail them and that she never forgets and always calls the kids on their birthday.

I opened my birthday card from her last night and used the money for a dinner date with dh.

Back to today, I must still be feeling froggy because after mentioning my birthday she says “You’ve got your card right?” And I say yes, thanks. Then she says “You haven’t opened your card yet have you?” And laughs. So I laugh and say “I’m not telling” she goes oh, ok. We’ll I’ll still call you on your birthday. I say great. She asks to tell ds12 his joke. I say sure and he and her trade jokes and hang up. We’ll, she just called back. “Did you really open your birthday card?” So I told the truth, yes. Then a lecture ensued about how I was ruining it, blah blah blah. Then she asked if I gave them to the kids already. I said yes. That’s the truth, and I don’t want to get caught in a lie, and she is so upset that I spoiled her plan (which I have been doing since she started it, she just didn’t know i was giving them out). Then she asks to talk to ds12, she can’t remember the punchline to the joke he told her (5 minutes ago) and this time I do lie and say he’s outside. Then she says, we’ll have him call me back and tell me the joke again. I say I’ll ask him about it.

She must think I’m dumb, there is no way she gets to talk to him as I don’t know what I’m the world she is going to say.

I’m trying to decide if it would have been better to lie or tell the truth. It shouldn’t seem like telling the truth should give me such a sense of satisfaction, but it did, and that feels wrong. But she did ask. On the other hand, I have been low level anxious for years that one of the kids would mention they got their card early. I’ve never asked them to not mention it, just living dangerously and the fact that they don’t talk to her much at all kept it from coming up. They always thanked her for the card when she called them. 
 

One the other hand, for whatever reason she asked me out right if I opened the card, which meant she must have been suspicious, and if I lied she could easily just call the other kids and ask them if they got their cards and even though I never asked them to lie, one might read between the lines and lie while another one may not and then she is mad at the kids instead of just me.

And now what is going to happen?!? I may or may not have to wait a year while she plots her next move.

And even though I thought I was doing better with her, I am still shaking and have broken out into a cold sweat

Edited January 15, 2023 by saraha

[Grace Hopper]

It’s like the ice cream all over again. 
 

For the next gift giving occasion get her a roll of stamps. If she wants to control the timing of birthday card distribution, that’s the way. Tell her flat out if she gives them to you all at once, once a year, you’re gonna give them straight to the kids. Just like your dh said the ice cream would go straight in the trash. 
 

Don’t accept her treating you like a misbehaving little kid. That’s ridiculous. 

[sgo95]

31 minutes ago, saraha said:

Back to today, I must still be feeling froggy because after mentioning my birthday she says “You’ve got your card right?” And I say yes, thanks. Then she says “You haven’t opened your card yet have you?” And laughs. So I laugh and say “I’m not telling” she goes oh, ok. We’ll I’ll still call you on your birthday. I say great. She asks to tell ds12 his joke. I say sure and he and her trade jokes and hang up. We’ll, she just called back. “Did you really open your birthday card?” So I told the truth, yes. Then a lecture ensued...

...

And even though I thought I was doing better with her, I am still shaking and have broken out into a cold sweat

To me, you come across on the boards as a loving wife, mother, and daughter...you seem like a good and nice person. Your mother isn't healthy. If my mom tried to "catch me" like that and lecture me, I would suddenly say "I got to go" and I wouldn't take her calls for a while. She mistreats you and you don't have to allow people to mistreat you.  She's trained you to be afraid of making her mad, which is a sick thing to do to your kid.

[Indigo Blue]

11 minutes ago, sgo95 said:

She's trained you to be afraid of making her mad, which is a sick thing to do to your kid.

This. 🙁

[Indigo Blue]

Can I just warn you of something? Been there done that with the mom trying little tricks involving the kids. You seem to be on it whereas I was more oblivious then. Now, as an empty nester, I think about how I’d go back and do things differently where the boys were concerned. It wasn’t too damaging as we live an hour away. Especially for the younger. She didn’t seem to have as much interest in messing with him with her weird games. Sadly, my nieces were much more  entangled with her. I believe the issues they have now are at least partly due to her influence. But. Just guard them like mad. Like really, keep them away from that messed up stuff as best as you can. I know you know it. I just feel a strong need to emphasize it as an older mom having already gone through that crap.  I am now glad they are grown adults who see through it all themselves.

It’s like all of your family is in a large cauldron, and she can reach in with her stirring spoon and infuse her toxicity slowly over time, over and through the generations.

Again, my brother’s children spent a lot of time involved with her. Mine did only in small doses, especially when I started to be able to see it more clearly. They fared much better. My mom just had too much control/toxicity/anger/raging/manipulation over brother, SIL, and those grandchildren. It affected them all. 

[Faith-manor]

(((Hugs))), it is not good when your encounters, just even phone calls, leave you shaking and in a cold sweat. She is inducing panic attack type responses, raising BP and heart rate, and that is with you establishing boundaries and keeping your distance. This is not good! You can end up with shredded arteries, and exhausted adrenal system over this. There are significant, physical consequences.

I think you may have to put some extreme boundaries on this. You need a break. Your body is begging you for a break. I would suggest something like a one year moratorium on communication except by mail. If she refuses to mail things, that is on her. No phone calls. No meetings. If you do this, she is of course going to have a cow when you tell her how it is going to be. Let that go. Just state the case, tell her that her behavior is having negative effects on your health so there can be no phone calls, emails, or face on meetings for a period of one year, and that includes to minor children. Send her some stamps. If she doesn't send cards or letters to the minor children, that is on her. Let the adult children, if you have them, make their own choice but let them know that the house line or cell phone cannot be used for phone calls, and they are to abide by your boundaries. So if they want to talk to grandma, that is their business, and they are not to involve their minor siblings. Just explain that you are having trouble processing certain grandma behaviors, and it is starting to cause you to have anxiety and stress that simply cannot also be handled at the same time that other grandma is so very sick, and grandpa needs so much support. Chances are they will understand, and it won't be a big deal. Then in one year you can re-evaluate. Give your heart and adrenals a much needed break.

Please take this from someone who DID not do this when the warning signals of being no longer able to manage the toxic relative's behavior were obvious. Though one is dead, and the other is cut off, I am permanently on panic attack meds as needed, and blood pressure meds.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Faith-manor

[math teacher]

Once she gave you the cards, she relinquished control over when they would be opened. I'm sorry you are dealing with this, and I would cut off communication with her for a period of time.

[Rosie_0801]

It really didn't matter whether you lied or told the truth.

[prairiewindmomma]

Nodding at the pp who pointed out that you are having a trauma response to this interaction. 
 

Can I suggest this book: https://www.amazon.com/Body-Keeps-Score-Healing-Trauma/dp/0143127748

Most libraries have it. 
 

If you read it, I think you will recognize a lot of the symptoms of trauma as things your body does when you interact with your mom. Your body is telling you you aren’t safe with her.

Stop Walking on Eggshells, Disarming the Narcissist, Will I Ever Be Good Enough, and Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Adults are a few books I also recommend.

[Shoeless]

If you are breaking out in a cold sweat from talking with her on the phone, then it's time to put some space between you and her. I had to do that with my own mother. [Mine is a different flavor of narcissistic; she seems to enjoy rejecting people. She would never, ever call me (she's always too busy or "sick" to bother with other people), and then act smug when I finally called her. I swear I could hear that woman smirking at me through the phone.  So I stopped calling because I'm tired of being low-key put down or her comparing my son unfavorably to her dog. If we're too far beneath her for her to bother conversing, then we won't bother Madame.]

I disagree on telling her that you'll only converse via mail. That's just waving a red flag in front a bull; she'll double down on insisting that you must talk on the phone, in person, over food, etc, in every way except via mail. Announcing your boundary and trying to turn it into rules for her behavior makes it a power struggle, and you know how that goes. She won't respect it.

If she was the sort of person that respected boundaries, you wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. You'd tell her to dial it down a bit and she'd say "Oh, sorry, ok", and you'd both get on with life. But she doesn't do that, and here you are.

If it were me, I'd just be less available. If she calls, let it go to voicemail and then only respond to her via email or snail mail. "Got your vm, I'm sorry but we aren't available for dinner that day, I'll let you know when we are free, love you, bye!"  She wont' like it, but she doesn't like anything, so you might as well do what works best for you. She'll be a misery no matter what.

[math teacher]

8 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

If you are breaking out in a cold sweat from talking with her on the phone, then it's time to put some space between you and her. I had to do that with my own mother. [Mine is a different flavor of narcissistic; she seems to enjoy rejecting people. She would never, ever call me (she's always too busy or "sick" to bother with other people), and then act smug when I finally called her. I swear I could hear that woman smirking at me through the phone.  So I stopped calling because I'm tired of being low-key put down or her comparing my son unfavorably to her dog. If we're too far beneath her for her to bother conversing, then we won't bother Madame.]

I disagree on telling her that you'll only converse via mail. That's just waving a red flag in front a bull; she'll double down on insisting that you must talk on the phone, in person, over food, etc, in every way except via mail. Announcing your boundary and trying to turn it into rules for her behavior makes it a power struggle, and you know how that goes. She won't respect it.

If she was the sort of person that respected boundaries, you wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. You'd tell her to dial it down a bit and she'd say "Oh, sorry, ok", and you'd both get on with life. But she doesn't do that, and here you are.

If it were me, I'd just be less available. If she calls, let it go to voicemail and then only respond to her via email or snail mail. "Got your vm, I'm sorry but we aren't available for dinner that day, I'll let you know when we are free, love you, bye!"  She wont' like it, but she doesn't like anything, so you might as well do what works best for you. She'll be a misery no matter what.

I couldn't agree more with all of this.

[YaelAldrich]

There are some very smart ladies telling you big truths. Please listen. 

[Scarlett]

10 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

I disagree on telling her that you'll only converse via mail. That's just waving a red flag in front a bull; she'll double down on insisting that you must talk on the phone, in person, over food, etc, in every way except via mail. Announcing your boundary and trying to turn it into rules for her behavior makes it a power struggle, and you know how that goes. She won't respect it.

 

 

Agree.

[Scarlett]

I am dealing with a lot with my mom lately. It is a new thing—-she definitely hasn’t always been this way.  I post some on the elders thread about how she has been acting….even though this is new for my mom I am feeling physical reactions to her. Reading the advice you are getting is helpful.  
 

In my case putting distance between us is difficult because I live less than 5 min from them and we have always been close so not talking as much also sets her off.

It is difficult.   ((((Hugs)))

[saraha]

18 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Nodding at the pp who pointed out that you are having a trauma response to this interaction. 
 

Can I suggest this book: https://www.amazon.com/Body-Keeps-Score-Healing-Trauma/dp/0143127748

Most libraries have it. 
 

If you read it, I think you will recognize a lot of the symptoms of trauma as things your body does when you interact with your mom. Your body is telling you you aren’t safe with her.

Stop Walking on Eggshells, Disarming the Narcissist, Will I Ever Be Good Enough, and Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Adults are a few books I also recommend.

Ordered the body keeps score from the library 

[Rosie_0801]

14 minutes ago, saraha said:

Ordered the body keeps score from the library 

Chapters 6-10 of 'The Tao of Trauma' has also been useful here.

[Harriet Vane]

7 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I am dealing with a lot with my mom lately. It is a new thing—-she definitely hasn’t always been this way.  I post some on the elders thread about how she has been acting….even though this is new for my mom I am feeling physical reactions to her. Reading the advice you are getting is helpful.  
 

In my case putting distance between us is difficult because I live less than 5 min from them and we have always been close so not talking as much also sets her off.

It is difficult.   ((((Hugs)))

Is your mom dealing with early dementia?

I come from a broken family, so I understand the need for boundaries. I do worry, sometimes, that it's hard to recognize the distinction between more dysfunction versus plain old dementia exacerbating negative tendencies. I definitely saw that sort of progression in my grandmother.

For example, a friend's mom was always a very difficult person with whom they had to set strict limits from day one. Friend's mom had a fainting fit in a store and later found out that it was an extremely mild stroke. Doctors were clear that friend's mom would likely be fine and regain all function if she kept living her normal life and engaged in some physical therapy. However, this incident triggered an unleashing of all the crazy. She'd been difficult before, and the brain injury made her lose any control of her behavior. It was terribly sad to watch. She ended up in a nursing home, and she made herself very unpopular with all the scolding and negative, hateful behaviors. Through all that my friend and her husband continued to visit her on a set schedule because they simply felt they should (though they stopped bringing the kids because it was so genuinely toxic).

[bolt.]

I want to say that when people who have been "difficult" all along are showing signs of early-onset dementia (Frontotemporal Dementia, not Alzheimer's Dementia) it can be *extremely* difficult to tell the difference between dementia symptoms, other possible mental health conditions, and behaviour choices.

My Dad-in-law has FTD, and at first we thought he had anxiety. Then we thought he was just being a controlling selfish jerk. It was his wife who insisted that it might be medical and needed investigation. She was right.

My main tips, if you are keeping an eye out for this are:

1. Watch for what confuses her. People with FTD loose the use of the part of their brains that tells them how other people think/feel in various situations. They can't use their imaginations to figure out another person's perspective. Therefore when they are asked why they didn't consider how their actions would impact another person, they often respond "How was I supposed to know?" -- in a very honest way. Or they will say that the other person definitely/obviously thinks/feels whatever they-themself are feeling/thinking. There is only one perspective.

(People who get FTD who are already selfish or inconsiderate don't change their behaviour as drastically as people who cultivated lovely temperaments through their lives, so it's not as noticable when they lose the ability to take another's perspective: but it's there.)

2. Does she seem tipsy? If your mom has ever been someone who engaged with alcohol, you probably know what she looks and sounds like when she is a bit "disinhibited". That varies from person to person, but for each person, their FTD behaviour can closely resemble the way they acted and felt (in former years) when they had enjoyed a drink or two. Not drunk. Just tipsy.

3. You can also watch for open lies, particularly self-aggrandizement. If this is her tendency already, though, it won't help much as a diagnostic criteria.

[saraha]

I don’t think so, and neither does my sister.
 I think she is just a lonely old woman who is bored, lazy, entitled with low self esteem, high anxiety and probably a narcissist. She has pushed everyone in her life away except her two living sisters and my sister and I. She has been married 6 times and is alone now. She knows everything so does not accept advice, especially from her children and cannot possibly fathom that we have our own lives that carry on when we are not in front of her face. She is spiteful and out to get one over on anyone she can, which includes one sided “wars” with her neighbors who do not give one whit about her and the post office.

She has also done some really thoughtful things over the years that really made our early married life easier, which kept me hanging on and going along with whatever she wanted for so many years. But I just can’t anymore, I feel like I repaid that kindness and the fact that I am still in limited contact and am willing to visit three times this year is enough to fulfill any other obligation.

I do worry about what is going to happen as age does start her to decline. She does not eat a healthy diet, doesn’t do any form of exercise or much of anything except go to a store everyday “to get out “, clean her house and watch tv. 

[saraha]

32 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Chapters 6-10 of 'The Tao of Trauma' has also been useful here.

Will look into it

[Storygirl]

I hate to suggest a diagnosis on the internet, but some of the interactions you describe suggest autism to me. Being able to only see things from your own perspective can be part of autism, and it can make that individual very difficult to live with and interact with. I've been thinking of this for awhile but decided to chime in after your description in your latest post and after bolt's description of the perspective-taking problems of FTD.

Could it be narcissism? Could be. I don't know anyone with that personality disorder. But I do live with someone who is autistic and can't do perspective-taking, and some of what you've described over time seems like it could be related to perspective taking issues.

[Grace Hopper]

Keep in mind that Body Keeps the Score is kind of dense reading. And the author has most experience with military veterans. But yes, definitely will validate your experience and help you identify your own behaviors/emotions that stem from trauma. 
 

eta I add that meaning to say, don’t give up on it because it’s thick. You don’t have to read slowly every word. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Grace Hopper

[saraha]

The book came and now I am trying to find time to read it. 
Tomorrow is my birthday but we aren’t celebrating til Sunday but I knew my mom would call in the morning and I have someplace to be. So I called her, hopefully to catch her off guard and avoid whatever drama she would think up for the morning. It worked, sort of. She spent a lot of time talking about this new food that came out she has seen on commercials- Nutella 😆The conversation went fine, we didn’t talk about my birthday until the end of the conversation when she said well happy birthday for tomorrow I guess and I cheerfully said thanks and hung up. I thought “Well, that worked out pretty well.”

I left and went up to take fil and my neighbor their meals. she called my cell phone. I was in the car so I answered, asked if it was an emergency and told her I was out I would call her back. An hour and a half later I called her and she just wanted to tell me that opening my card early and then calling her tonight has made her upset all evening. She said next time she is going to write do not open on the birthday card. Something inside me snapped and I said won't matter, if you give it to me it's mine and I can open it whenever I want and you can't stop me. Then I laughed. She sighed and instead of going the angry route, she went the poor me route. She asked what I am doing tomorrow for my birthday, so I reminded her I had stuff so we aren’t celebrating til Sunday when the most people can be around and we are going to grill out. She  sighed and told me how much she didn’t like that. That’s too much driving to pick up the college kids. Etc Then she asked me what  I asked for. I said grill out? But she meant for gifts. I said oh, we don’t really do gifts like that for birthdays. That made her even sadder and elicited more sighs. Then she said, well  what was my contribution to your birthday? I told her dh and I went out to dinner. Then she lost her temper and said NO! That money was just for YOU. I just sighed back at her and said, well that’s what I wanted to do. I have to go. She said well, guess you’ll just have a boring birthday with no gifts! And now what am I supposed to do since I can’t call you tomorrow. I said well hopefully you find something. Talk to you later and hung up.

It was definitely not the worst, but when it was over I was like, you figured out it wasn’t an emergency, why did you call her back?!? 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

[freesia]

Sorry! I hope you have a peaceful birthday weekend from now on!

[saraha]

I’m hoping. she’s out of the way, so that’s good at least

[fairfarmhand]

Psst…if she calls Tomorrow don’t answer.

[Harriet Vane]

My goodness. I'm so sorry she has to make this all about her and chastise you for not celebrating correctly (!!!) and be so controlling! 

Personally I would also enjoy a fabulous dinner out. And naturally I wouldn't want to go out alone. I think your dinner out with dh is normal and perfectly fine and delightful. And it's completely normal and fine to schedule celebrations when convenient. And I would totally do a bunch of driving and logistics to have my favorite people there with me--I wouldn't even look at it as work, and I would just be happy if they were able to celebrate with me. 

My own grown-up dd just had a birthday. I sent an e-card by text and I left a voicemail message of me singing to her. She let me know she'd be late to our family zoom (weekly for 30-60 minutes with us and with ds + ddil) since she and her dh were going out to dinner after class. And I said some form of: Enjoy your dinner thoroughly! Log on to the zoom if you're able to say hi. If you can't make it, no worries. We can catch up another time. 

That's what's healthy. Expressing love and affirmation. Recognizing her freedom as an adult to order her day as she sees fit based on both her personal logistics (class, etc.) and desires (dinner out with her dh after class). Expressing a desire to connect at a time that is mutually easy. No pressure. Just affirmation, celebration, love. 

[fraidycat]

@saraha

Huge kudos to you! I don't think you recognize just how far you have progressed.

Yes, you answered the call/called her back, AND you did not try to appease her, claimed your "space" about your birthday money/card,  ended the call without giving in to her guilt trip about how she'll spend her time tomorrow, and were not shaking like a leaf after the interaction.

That is leaps and bounds ahead of where you were! Yay you!!!

And Happy Birthday!

Edited January 27, 2023 by fraidycat

[gardenmom5]

On 1/1/2023 at 2:53 PM, saraha said:

I was pretty happy with my response of that is not a nice thing to say to someone. It caught her flat footed and she really had to think through her response, even though her response was garbage, it made her think for like a second. My plan is to say that, or something similar every time. I want to have at least some sort of relationship and if she gets tired of me and cuts ME out, we’ll, that will be on her. I will be sad but I will be content that I did my best.

Good luck with that.
most of the family has cut off/severely reduced contact with my brother (including his children).  I have severely reduced contact.  He blew up at me and said he was tired of trying to "be friends" (whatever) and he wasn't going to be contacting me anymore.

it lasted three weeks.  four weeks? 

and of course, as far as he was concerned, nothing had ever happened.

[saraha]

5 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

Good luck with that.
most of the family has cut off/severely reduced contact with my brother (including his children).  I have severely reduced contact.  He blew up at me and said he was tired of trying to "be friends" (whatever) and he wasn't going to be contacting me anymore.

it lasted three weeks.  four weeks? 

and of course, as far as he was concerned, nothing had ever happened.

I remember you talking about that. I’m sorry

[TexasProud]

Good grief...it is your birthday.  No one gets to designate how you celebrate it but you.  My parents would never have thought to do that, nor do I have any desire to tell them how my children should celebrate theirs.  This is just unfathomable to me. 

[saraha]

7 hours ago, fraidycat said:

@saraha

Huge kudos to you! I don't think you recognize just how far you have progressed.

Yes, you answered the call/called her back, AND you did not try to appease her, claimed your "space" about your birthday money/card,  ended the call without giving in to her guilt trip about how she'll spend her time tomorrow, and were not shaking like a leaf after the interaction.

That is leaps and bounds ahead of where you were! Yay you!!!

And Happy Birthday!

Thanks! I think because I was able to call her on my terms it made it easier. Otherwise I would have just been waiting and dreading, you know? I wasn’t surprised she called me back and I’m not sure why she tried a different route than anger, but trying to make herself a pity party instead of yelling made it easier too. I figure she’ll try to call anyway, but I won’t feel bad about not taking it because I’ve already given her a chance to touch base and say happy birthday. The first conversation was nice, I wish she could have left it at that.