Conflict with MIL

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Corraleno said:

It was only one child, and it's not even clear whether the argument happened "in front of" her. The OP said that older DD happened to be home at the time and "heard the argument" — an argument that her dad started when he told grandma that the kids were jealous of the time she spent w/BIL and wanted him excluded from their last night together. So one kid overheard grandma's rude response to her dad's rude request. And even though grandma was willing to let it go and spend time with her grandkids on her last night, the OP and her DD insist that there must be "consequences" for her rudeness, while failing to acknowledge the rudeness of the request that set her off.

Yes, and I’m still not understanding why they couldn’t invite BIL to game night. 

It was the last night of MIL’s visit, and I understand why she would have wanted her entire family to be included. 

[Bambam]

I've read this thread with interest. It is so hard to fairly present a situation and ask for people's take on it. We all read it with our own history/feelings/emotions/cultural expectations at  the time. And it's hard for the OP to present all the back story and all the feelings/looks/emotions/unspoken communication that has been happening through all this. 

To me it seems: 
MIL comes into town for a week.
MIL spends a couple of days with grandchildren doing things they enjoy.
MIL then spends much time with DS that has no children - meals out, other social occasions, etc, but still spends time alone with that DS in the bedroom of the home of her other son and his family.  (It seems like MIL only is spending time alone with bedroom with her other son, thus ignoring the rest of the family who actually own/live in the house)
BIL sounds like someone with issues (still living with Dad, mooching car, etc)
MIL gets upset when requested to have game night with family that she is residing with and to not include BIL. 

There are so many questions left unanswered. 

Family is weird. At least my family is. There is no telling what anyone is thinking if they respond in a way that seems inappropriate to me - unless I ask them.  Sometimes we get along. Sometimes we have disagreements. Sometimes people get their feelings hurt. Sometimes some are mean. Sometimes someone isn't being mean, but it comes across that way. Sometimes we lose our tempers and react in not the best way (to put it mildly!)

I hope the OP found a way to have some resolution with the end of MIL's visit. 
I hope the OP and her DH can figure out a way to handle the next visit so that it will work out better for everyone. 

I find these threads interesting because they give me insight into what others are thinking, and how my actions/reactions might be perceived, and hopefully how I can be a better communicator in situations that aren't perfect. 

[Tree Frog]

@Calizzy, how did the last night go?

[kbutton]

8 hours ago, bolt. said:

Yes, I think you are right that the implicit meaning of 'holing up' is 'hiding out from everybody'.

Holing up is something my FOO would say about hanging out at home during bad weather. Nothing to do with people necessarily.

[SKL]

FTR all my (and my siblings') heart-to-heart conversations with my mom occur in the room she sleeps in (it also happens to be where she has her computer, TV, and audiobooks).

Call it holing up if you want to, but sometimes you want to chat in private with your mom.  I mean, there are things I don't discuss deeply with anyone else.

Maybe coincidentally, I'm also unmarried.  Maybe if I was married, I'd discuss everything with my spouse instead.  Or almost everything.

[LaughingCat]

I think if BIL needed to talk about private things so much that he needed 4 meals out alone w/Mom plus several hours several times in the house -- then that is a LOT of private conversations!

 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I wonder how much of this is based on the OP and her husband’s dislike of BIL.  I feel like it all keeps circling back to that.

And it is very hard to try to understand someone else’s family, especially not being there.  In my FOO, MIL getting mad and even yelling and leaving wouldn’t be considered “bad” or even too unusual. People get angry, blow up, leave to cool off and once they aren’t overstimulated or frustrated in the moment, everything is fine.  In my husband’s FOO, that would have been unthinkable. 

I would frankly expect MIL to spend more time with her own son than grandchildren.  if they’re by themselves in her bedroom, it’s probably BIL feels unwelcome and just wants to hang with his mom. I would also yell and leave if someone told me they didn’t want one of my children there on the last night.  None of this is unreasonable to me at all—but that is where having a thorough understanding of the family culture comes into play, which we obviously don’t have here.

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, LaughingCat said:

I think if BIL needed to talk about private things so much that he needed 4 meals out alone w/Mom plus several hours several times in the house -- then that is a LOT of private conversations!

Granny was in town for a whole week.  She traveled 2000 miles just to spend time with her sons and their close families.

What is the operative rule here?  Because I think it's creepy to make the mom-BIL time into something weird.  I guess my family is weird too.  Maybe I'd better plan on having a superficial relationship with my kids when they are adults, because long private conversations with one's children are weird.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Granny was in town for a whole week.  She traveled 2000 miles just to spend time with her sons and their close families.

What is the operative rule here?  Because I think it's creepy to make the mom-BIL time into something weird.  I guess my family is weird too.  Maybe I'd better plan on having a superficial relationship with my kids when they are adults, because long private conversations with one's children are weird.

It isn’t creepy or weird.  I don’t think anyone said that.  It is, IMO, rude. I have already said all,of that in other posts, but to restate, being a guest in someone’s home and then excluding them from your conversations with another guest is rude IMO.  
 

You can’t  compare that to you going to see your mom and hanging out with her in her bedroom. It would be more like if you were an overnight guest from out of town at your siblings house and your mom came over and the two of you went in your room and excluded everyone else.  Barring some sort of crisis that to me is unkind and rude behavior.

Obviously not everyone agrees.  We all see things very differently.  Families are different.  

[Melissa in Australia]

13 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

It isn’t creepy or weird.  I don’t think anyone said that.  It is, IMO, rude. I have already said all,of that in other posts, but to restate, being a guest in someone’s home and then excluding them from your conversations with another guest is rude IMO.  
 

You can’t  compare that to you going to see your mom and hanging out with her in her bedroom. It would be more like if you were an overnight guest from out of town at your siblings house and your mom came over and the two of you went in your room and excluded everyone else.  Barring some sort of crisis that to me is unkind and rude behavior.

Obviously not everyone agrees.  We all see things very differently.  Families are different.  

It is interesting how everyone forms different images in their head from what the op wrote. 

 

What I imagine is mil and bil having a conversation or watching a movie or something in the bedroom and little kids bashing on the door cause they want to go in. When I have  had in-laws staying I have never let the kids knock on the door of the room they are in cause that to me is very bad manners.  I always taught my children that if visited is in their room with the door closed then they are not to be bothered. But maybe my image of what is   is different to what is happeng in this situation.

I know I have had elderly relatives  stay for a few weeks at a time and they get worn out by little kids, and would retire to their room to have a nap or read quietly... To rest. 

[shawthorne44]

I wonder if BIL has always been the Golden Child?   

[pinball]

13 hours ago, Scarlett said:

It isn’t creepy or weird.  I don’t think anyone said that.  It is, IMO, rude. I have already said all,of that in other posts, but to restate, being a guest in someone’s home and then excluding them from your conversations with another guest is rude IMO.  
 

You can’t  compare that to you going to see your mom and hanging out with her in her bedroom. It would be more like if you were an overnight guest from out of town at your siblings house and your mom came over and the two of you went in your room and excluded everyone else.  Barring some sort of crisis that to me is unkind and rude behavior.

Obviously not everyone agrees.  We all see things very differently.  Families are different.  

I find the bolded statement to be very unusual. Do you mean you expect to be (or are) privy to every conversation guests have in your house?

[Arcadia]

On 9/11/2022 at 6:17 AM, teachermom2834 said:

I got a hotel even though I was invited to stay. It seemed “safest”. But who knows? 

We offered to pay for the hotel across the street from our home but in-laws said they rather have the hotel cost as their shopping money. So there is that aspect too in OP’s case where a hotel in town might be better for everyone but who foot the bill.  It is easier in our case because we only have a single bedroom and guests get the living room if they don’t want to spend on a hotel.

An overseas friend did put up at the hotel across the street so that she could invite my kids over for a short visit and me only for personal chit chat. 

[Scarlett]

4 hours ago, pinball said:

I find the bolded statement to be very unusual. Do you mean you expect to be (or are) privy to every conversation guests have in your house?

I would never dream to ‘expect’ it because I can’t imagine inviting two people to my home who then go off alone and spend their time in private conversation.  I guess all my friends and family are equally as unusual.  

[catz]

17 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I would never dream to ‘expect’ it because I can’t imagine inviting two people to my home who then go off alone and spend their time in private conversation.  I guess all my friends and family are equally as unusual.  

I think there is a difference when you are hosting someone for a week vs for a day or a meal.  I've never stayed with someone for more than 24 hours or had someone else stay here where someone didn't step away or take some quiet time, set up other activities, etc.  

 

[Scarlett]

12 minutes ago, catz said:

I think there is a difference when you are hosting someone for a week vs for a day or a meal.  I've never stayed with someone for more than 24 hours or had someone else stay here where someone didn't step away or take some quiet time, set up other activities, etc.  

 

I go see my best friend sometimes. I might stay with her for several days.  While there she will invite others that I am close to. And I would feel comfortable inviting someone over like say my SIL.  I cannot imagine in what world two of us would go into a closed door room and tell others that we are having a private conversation.  Unless of course there was some crisis in which case I would quietly alert the hostess we had said crisis even if I did not detail the crisis.  
 

I am not so sure why so many of you feel the need to defend that behavior.  MIL had already spend a good amount of time alone with this BIL so it isn’t as if she had zero other opportunity for privacy.  

[Catwoman]

18 minutes ago, catz said:

I think there is a difference when you are hosting someone for a week vs for a day or a meal.  I've never stayed with someone for more than 24 hours or had someone else stay here where someone didn't step away or take some quiet time, set up other activities, etc.  

 

I agree. And even from a host's perspective, who would want to entertain guests all day and all night long, every day, for multiple days? Wouldn't you be secretly thrilled if your guests wanted to visit privately with a close friend or family member for a few hours a day? Wouldn't you happily give them the space in your home to do that?

I guess this is one of the reasons why I have a very strict policy of no overnight guests (unless it was someone my ds wanted to invite,) and why I never stay overnight with anyone I'm visiting. I need time alone (or with my dh and ds,) and it would drive me up a wall to feel like I had to spend all of my time with my hosts.

And as for the MIL spending hours at a time in the bedroom with BIL... she probably felt it was the only place in the house where they could get some privacy. It may not have been about being intentionally rude or wanting to keep secrets from the rest of the family; it may have been that the woman needed a break from the hustle and bustle of a busy household, and having her son there with her was a nice, added bonus for her. 

[Catwoman]

5 hours ago, pinball said:

I find the bolded statement to be very unusual. Do you mean you expect to be (or are) privy to every conversation guests have in your house?

I can understand a host wanting to be a part of the conversations for short visits, but in this case, the MIL was staying for multiple days and the whole reason for her trip was so she could see all of her family members in the area, so it seems odd to assume that the MIL wouldn't be able to set her own schedule and visit with multiple family members as she chose.

The next time around, I think MIL should seriously consider staying in a hotel and renting a car, so she can make her own schedule, and she can invite her own guests to her hotel room whenever she chooses. That way, Calizzy won't feel like her home is being treated as a hotel, and she won't have to invite her BIL into her home at all if she prefers not to have him there.

[pinball]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I would never dream to ‘expect’ it because I can’t imagine inviting two people to my home who then go off alone and spend their time in private conversation.  I guess all my friends and family are equally as unusual.  

Or maybe they know better than to misbehave at your house, LOL 😂 

[pinball]

7 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I can understand a host wanting to be a part of the conversations for short visits, but in this case, the MIL was staying for multiple days and the whole reason for her trip was so she could see all of her family members in the area, so it seems odd to assume that the MIL wouldn't be able to set her own schedule and visit with multiple family members as she chose.

The next time around, I think MIL should seriously consider staying in a hotel and renting a car, so she can make her own schedule, and she can invite her own guests to her hotel room whenever she chooses. That way, Calizzy won't feel like her home is being treated as a hotel, and she won't have to invite her BIL into her home at all if she prefers not to have him there.

True. There is always a price to pay for trips. Maybe paying for a hotel would be money well spent.

[Catwoman]

6 minutes ago, pinball said:

True. There is always a price to pay for trips. Maybe paying for a hotel would be money well spent.

Thanks.  🙂 

My thinking was that I can understand why @Calizzy would be annoyed that her MIL seemed to prefer spending time alone with BIL instead of with her and her kids, especially since she was the one doing all the work of hosting -- plus, it sounds like Calizzy isn't particularly fond of BIL, so it makes complete sense to me that she wouldn't want him at her house every day... but I can also understand the MIL wanting to spend a lot of one-on-one time with her son, too.

I feel like separate accommodations for MIL may be the best solution.

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Catwoman
typo!

[Jean in Newcastle]

47 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I go see my best friend sometimes. I might stay with her for several days.  While there she will invite others that I am close to. And I would feel comfortable inviting someone over like say my SIL.  I cannot imagine in what world two of us would go into a closed door room and tell others that we are having a private conversation.  Unless of course there was some crisis in which case I would quietly alert the hostess we had said crisis even if I did not detail the crisis.  
 

I am not so sure why so many of you feel the need to defend that behavior.  MIL had already spend a good amount of time alone with this BIL so it isn’t as if she had zero other opportunity for privacy.  

For me personally, it’s not so much a defending of the MIL, as trying to understand her. I am loathe to automatically label a woman who has obviously set aside developmentally appropriate time for children and who showed them consideration as a “ narcissist “. (I realize that narcissists can do nice things but with a high price but I haven’t gotten that impression from what has been said about her.)  Also, other than this one meltdown I haven’t seen any description of her being ugly to people.  
 

What I have seen is an older woman (age unknown) who seems to prefer more one-on-one interactions for at least a big chunk of time.  And who might have a habit of preferring one son to the other but probably not enough to warrant an armchair diagnosis of narcissism.  But I also see hosts who scrutinize her every choice and count her interactions with her other son in a “tit for tat” sort of way.  

 

[teachermom2834]

@ScarlettI actually agree with you that it is unusual/rude/off putting for MIL and BIL to go off in another room away from the host family for extended periods of time. I think that is odd given the circumstances and I can see how it is off putting. 
 

However, I see it as a thing where I would vent to dh “your mom and brother are driving us nuts with their private meetings. Next time she is staying in a hotel.” I don’t see it as worth all this drama on this visit. I do think it is off putting enough taken with everything else to pursue different arrangements another time but not to blow up this trip. 

It’s ok to find out the arrangements didn’t work. Not everyone is meant to share living arrangements! But it can totally be punted to be dealt with next time and just get through this time. 

 

[Garga]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I agree. And even from a host's perspective, who would want to entertain guests all day and all night long, every day, for multiple days? Wouldn't you be secretly thrilled if your guests wanted to visit privately with a close friend or family member for a few hours a day? Wouldn't you happily give them the space in your home to do that?

 

My parents visited last month and they are the sort who want to spend every waking minute together. Once everyone was dressed for the day, they wanted to spend every single moment together, talking and interacting. No companionable silences allowed! 

It’s just their way. They would be horrified at the idea of them going off into another room without the entire family being together.

Now, I personally do like some down time and if they’d have said, “While we’re in town, we’d like to go to X alone or visit so-and-so,” I’d have been content and would have been fine with some time not to interact so much. But I’m introverted like that.

Families are all so different, that’s for sure. I do wonder how it all went down with Grandma and the OP. She seems to have left the thread though. 

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

For me personally, it’s not so much a defending of the MIL, as trying to understand her. I am loathe to automatically label a woman who has obviously set aside developmentally appropriate time for children and who showed them consideration as a “ narcissist “. (I realize that narcissists can do nice things but with a high price but I haven’t gotten that impression from what has been said about her.)  Also, other than this one meltdown I haven’t seen any description of her being ugly to people.  
 

What I have seen is an older woman (age unknown) who seems to prefer more one-on-one interactions for at least a big chunk of time.  And who might have a habit of preferring one son to the other but probably not enough to warrant an armchair diagnosis of narcissism.  But I also see hosts who scrutinize her every choice and count her interactions with her other son in a “tit for tat” sort of way.  

 

As a MIL myself I too feel for her.  And I certainly do not believe she is a narcissist.  My only opinion is that this one thing seems rude to me.  But I don’t think it should have ruined the trip completely and obviously there is more going on in that entire dynamic than we can possibly be privy to.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, teachermom2834 said:

@ScarlettI actually agree with you that it is unusual/rude/off putting for MIL and BIL to go off in another room away from the host family for extended periods of time. I think that is odd given the circumstances and I can see how it is off putting. 
 

However, I see it as a thing where I would vent to dh “your mom and brother are driving us nuts with their private meetings. Next time she is staying in a hotel.” I don’t see it as worth all this drama on this visit. I do think it is off putting enough taken with everything else to pursue different arrangements another time but not to blow up this trip. 

It’s ok to find out the arrangements didn’t work. Not everyone is meant to share living arrangements! But it can totally be punted to be dealt with next time and just get through this time. 

 

Ha,I read this after my last post……I agree with you. 

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, pinball said:

Or maybe they know better than to misbehave at your house, LOL 😂 

I mean I get that you are trying to be funny, but honestly that was a snarky thing to say to me.  I have wonderful very close relationships with friends who have been friends for decades.  We are not formal with each other.  I am overnight guest in their home and they in mine.   None of us would do what this MIL did.  And it would not be out of fear of Scarlett’s wrath…..or anyones wrath. If one of us did this we would think something was very off. 

[Spryte]

32 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I mean I get that you are trying to be funny, but honestly that was a snarky thing to say to me.  I have wonderful very close relationships with friends who have been friends for decades.  We are not formal with each other.  I am overnight guest in their home and they in mine.   None of us would do what this MIL did.  And it would not be out of fear of Scarlett’s wrath…..or anyones wrath. If one of us did this we would think something was very off. 

I get it. I, too, have lifelong, close friendships. We stay up late talking and laughing, get up and drink coffee in our jammies talking, and all the time in between we are talking and soaking up the time together. Anything else would be a signal that something is off. We’ve been this way since our college days. 

[Melissa in Australia]

10 minutes ago, Spryte said:

I get it. I, too, have lifelong, close friendships. We stay up late talking and laughing, get up and drink coffee in our jammies talking, and all the time in between we are talking and soaking up the time together. Anything else would be a signal that something is off. We’ve been this way since our college days. 

Having friends over is a whole different kettle if fish than having  inlaws over

Edited September 13, 2022 by Melissa in Australia

[pinball]

47 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I mean I get that you are trying to be funny, but honestly that was a snarky thing to say to me.  I have wonderful very close relationships with friends who have been friends for decades.  We are not formal with each other.  I am overnight guest in their home and they in mine.   None of us would do what this MIL did.  And it would not be out of fear of Scarlett’s wrath…..or anyones wrath. If one of us did this we would think something was very off. 

Touché 

[Scarlett]

19 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Having friends over is a whole different kettle if fish than having  inlaws over

I can say the exact thing about my MIL. 
edited to add in case I was t clear, my MIL would never go off in to her room at my house or hers with another guest and exclude us.  

Edited September 13, 2022 by Scarlett

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, Garga said:

Now, I personally do like some down time and if they’d have said, “While we’re in town, we’d like to go to X alone or visit so-and-so,” I’d have been content and would have been fine with some time not to interact so much. But I’m introverted like that.
 

I would love that too despite being an extrovert. However OP’s case is more of my house guest inviting the person they want to spend time with into my home which means I have another person to host and I not only do not get any downtime, I would also feel impolite to leave the house. Though if it is my in-laws and my husband is home, I would take off with my kids and leave him to be the host. 
In OP’s scenario, her MIL could have stayed 2 days with OP’s family and the rest with her son and ex-husband. 

[Scarlett]

4 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I agree. And even from a host's perspective, who would want to entertain guests all day and all night long, every day, for multiple days? Wouldn't you be secretly thrilled if your guests wanted to visit privately with a close friend or family member for a few hours a day? Wouldn't you happily give them the space in your home to do that?

I guess this is one of the reasons why I have a very strict policy of no overnight guests (unless it was someone my ds wanted to invite,) and why I never stay overnight with anyone I'm visiting. I need time alone (or with my dh and ds,) and it would drive me up a wall to feel like I had to spend all of my time with my hosts.

And as for the MIL spending hours at a time in the bedroom with BIL... she probably felt it was the only place in the house where they could get some privacy. It may not have been about being intentionally rude or wanting to keep secrets from the rest of the family; it may have been that the woman needed a break from the hustle and bustle of a busy household, and having her son there with her was a nice, added bonus for her. 

I am a total introvert.  Most people don’t realize it….but I am.  I love, adore, my friends and family.  But after a long day of together I crave a hot shower and vegging out with my IPAd in bed. Alone.  I mean, Dh will be with me but I sometimes need to block him out.  
I have never one time in my 57 years felt the need to take another invited guest, into my guest room and hide out, telling others we are having private conversations. 
And I  have overnight guests…..same applies…..at the end of the day I crave the time I can be alone in my room and veg out with my IPad.  
 

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, Garga said:

My parents visited last month and they are the sort who want to spend every waking minute together. Once everyone was dressed for the day, they wanted to spend every single moment together, talking and interacting. No companionable silences allowed! 

It’s just their way. They would be horrified at the idea of them going off into another room without the entire family being together.

Now, I personally do like some down time and if they’d have said, “While we’re in town, we’d like to go to X alone or visit so-and-so,” I’d have been content and would have been fine with some time not to interact so much. But I’m introverted like that.

Families are all so different, that’s for sure. I do wonder how it all went down with Grandma and the OP. She seems to have left the thread though. 

So do you manage ok with night time down time?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I am too lazy to go back and look but someone said up thread somewhere that expectations should be set up before the next visit. I agree. Communication seems to be an issue in the extended family but perhaps if things are discussed prior to the visit, things might be different. Also there appears to be sibling rivalry of some kind going on. Can’t that be put on hold for one week?  
 

I have had many guests over the years. If I know ahead of time that they want to use my house more like a bed and breakfast, then I am not going to feel slighted when they wave good- bye after breakfast to go off on their day’s activities. Not all guests have the same agenda or needs. 

[Frances]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I can say the exact thing about my MIL. 
edited to add in case I was t clear, my MIL would never go off in to her room at my house or hers with another guest and exclude us.  

And does she travel thousands of miles to see you and are her visits fairly rare? I don’t think the OP’s current situation is analogous to friends of any distance or relatives who live nearby.

With an adult child who still lives with his father and is at least somewhat financially dependent on him and divorced parents, it sounds like there are some unique family circumstances and dynamic going on here. Not to mention the OP and her husband’s dislike of the BIL. Surely the mom picks up on that?

I agree with others that a hotel for mom next time she visits might be the easiest solution all around.

[Garga]

11 hours ago, Scarlett said:

So do you manage ok with night time down time?

There was pretty much no down time for the 7 days they were here. I would scramble to post about 5 or 6 pictures of our day together in the evenings, but my mom haaaaates technology and I would see her getting twitchy in the 10 minutes I spent posting the pictures and not engaging with the family. She finds it really rude for people to look at screens.

We watched a tv show together, which was relief from non-stop talking, and my mom would get a little twitchy in the commercials if we weren’t all chatting during them. She just does not understand a companionable silence and downtime. 

There was maybe a half hour before sleeping that I was able to chill for a little bit, but otherwise, we were always engaged the entire time.

I only see them every few years, so I just girded myself up for it and got myself in a mental state ready to be “on” all the time. 

The week after was pretty silent in the house, though, as all 4 of us who live here are introverts and we all needed to recover. 🙂

I sound so mean on this post! I love my mom a billion times over! But…we don’t really match in terms of how much down time we seem to need. Or else, she just wanted to squeeze in as much time as possible since we only see each other every couple of years. Maybe she went home and sat around in silence for a week after the visit, too.  🙂

 

[stephanier.1765]

13 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Having friends over is a whole different kettle if fish than having  inlaws over

I stay with my son when I visit. I usually stay two weeks at a time. To be fair, I don't have anyone else to visit while I'm there but I still can't imagine going off in another room that is closed off from the rest of the house to visit with someone that doesn't live there. It would be weird even if I did that with my son in his own house. I also can't imagine denying access to my grandchildren when they want to spend time with me. That's my whole reason for being there...to soak up every moment with them and even then it is too short.

When we gather for holidays, some people might sit in the living room, some might hang out in the family room and some might be congregating in the kitchen but never does anyone go in a room and close a door. Maybe if there was something urgent and private but that has never happened. Anyone can join any group at any time. 

[Terabith]

4 minutes ago, stephanier.1765 said:

I stay with my son when I visit. I usually stay two weeks at a time. To be fair, I don't have anyone else to visit while I'm there but I still can't imagine going off in another room that is closed off from the rest of the house to visit with someone that doesn't live there. It would be weird even if I did that with my son in his own house. I also can't imagine denying access to my grandchildren when they want to spend time with me. That's my whole reason for being there...to soak up every moment with them and even then it is too short.

When we gather for holidays, some people might sit in the living room, some might hang out in the family room and some might be congregating in the kitchen but never does anyone go in a room and close a door. Maybe if there was something urgent and private but that has never happened. Anyone can join any group at any time. 

There’s just no way my family could cope with that.  Seriously, no matter how much we love you, if that’s the expectation, there would simply be no visits ever. I could maybe, at much cost to myself, put up with it for a few days, but my kids have to lock themselves away for hours at a time or they’d be walking puddles of nervous breakdowns.  

[stephanier.1765]

4 minutes ago, Terabith said:

There’s just no way my family could cope with that.  Seriously, no matter how much we love you, if that’s the expectation, there would simply be no visits ever. I could maybe, at much cost to myself, put up with it for a few days, but my kids have to lock themselves away for hours at a time or they’d be walking puddles of nervous breakdowns.  

That doesn't mean son and DIL don't ever leave. Matter of fact, they love having a babysitter right there so they can go do things they normally can't. And they continue to work. I also give them a break by doing household and childcare chores. I don't mine pitching in and cleaning the kitchen or cooking a meal or giving the children a bath and putting them to bed. I have changed many, many diapers. I take the kids to the park, to the backyard to run around or out for walks. So we aren't on top of each other all the time. After the kids go to bed, we all usually settle into quiet activities. Son usually gets on the computer, DIL usually goes to bed soon after (she goes to work super early) where she reads or plays on the internet and I read, as well. Sometimes we'll watch TV or play a game. I'm very easy going and will bend to whatever their needs are. I'm just happy to be there.

[marbel]

34 minutes ago, Garga said:

There was pretty much no down time for the 7 days they were here.

This is how it is when I see my sister, with or without her family. She is such an extrovert, and wants everyone to have (her version of) fun every minute, and it's exhausting to me and mine. 

She also gets upset if someone wants to stay in a hotel rather than squeeze into her house for a slumber party. She doesn't understand wanting some down time, some quiet, some privacy for sleeping. Isn't a bunch of sleeping bags on the living room floor more fun? 

Love her, but it's hard. 

[fairfarmhand]

16 minutes ago, Terabith said:

There’s just no way my family could cope with that.  Seriously, no matter how much we love you, if that’s the expectation, there would simply be no visits ever. I could maybe, at much cost to myself, put up with it for a few days, but my kids have to lock themselves away for hours at a time or they’d be walking puddles of nervous breakdowns.  

I imagine this could be different depending on the home. Ours is rather large with three different living areas. It's quite easy for people to take breaks from one another without locking themselves behind closed doors. 

Generally, in thinking back to visiting with in laws and their visiting with us, there were early bedtimes, late risings, nap times, going for a walk etc. Where people left the group, probably to get a bit of time to think  and regroup, it was never acted out in a "I have to get away from you people." 

So much of this might be predicated on one's relationship with the person, don't you think? And their general demeanor. When someone is excited to be visiting, but "I'm a bit tired, I think I'll go lay down." comes up, you accept it as "they need a break." When they don't seem very happy to be there, it's easy to misjudge the motives.

That said, I never ever remember my in laws closing themselves away from others along with one other person (other than each other). There was a bit of blatant favoritism, but that would have gone a bit to far in what would have seemed like rudeness.

[Terabith]

I mean, I will fully admit that my teen kids cross the line into rudeness.  They are both raging introverts who have serious sensory sensitivities, visiting my parents, and my mom is very well meaning but shows her love through “constructive criticism”, and my sister’s three young children, two of whom are toddlers, show up at unpredictable times and then announce that they’re also spending the night.  There’s no way to predict the schedule.  It’s loud, chaotic, and you have to be ON all the time, even before you add in the two dogs who jump and bark all the time.  My kids shut themselves up in rooms and hide.  It’s rude but it’s the only possible way they could make the trip.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

Some random thoughts:

unless family relationships really are toxic, I believe that there is value in bending a little to preserve them. 
 

people have lots of “unseen “ needs- sensory issues including possible hearing loss in older adults,  introversion vs extroversion, stamina issues, sometimes physical or health issues that they are embarrassed about. 
 

Sometimes people are rude. But is the answer being rude back?  
 

Both hosts and guests should bend but sometimes older people find it harder to bend and be flexible. 
 

Thoughtful questions about how to fix an issue cause less friction than confronting someone and issuing an ultimatum. Plus it hopefully leads to better communication all around. 
 

Kids do see what we do. Do you want them to treat you the same way some day?  But people have also made very valid points about kids needing us to stick up for them. 
 

These are just things that this thread has made me think about. 

[fairfarmhand]

56 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I mean, I will fully admit that my teen kids cross the line into rudeness.  They are both raging introverts who have serious sensory sensitivities, visiting my parents, and my mom is very well meaning but shows her love through “constructive criticism”, and my sister’s three young children, two of whom are toddlers, show up at unpredictable times and then announce that they’re also spending the night.  There’s no way to predict the schedule.  It’s loud, chaotic, and you have to be ON all the time, even before you add in the two dogs who jump and bark all the time.  My kids shut themselves up in rooms and hide.  It’s rude but it’s the only possible way they could make the trip.  

I think I'd want to get a hotel room. That sounds like a LOT.

[SKL]

I still think there are two conflicting rules operating here.

1) Arguendo, it's rude to temporarily exclude certain people from "your room" in the house you're visiting.

2) But it isn't rude to temporarily exclude the visitor's son from said house.

I'm in the camp that needs a break and closes ourselves in our room from time to time during a long visit.  (Long meaning more than a couple days.)  Never knew it was wrong ... and I have friends who would have told me if they disagreed ... but I'll allow that's a family culture thing.

In fact, I'm in the camp that teaches our kids to never bother visitors when they are in "their rooms," unless it's an emergency or something for the guests' comfort (like, "excuse me Granny, may I bring in some clean towels?" or "Granny, Mom says dinner will be served in 20 minutes:).  But again - probably a family culture thing.

But assuming a family culture of openness and inclusion, how does the OP's request to disinvite BIL fit into that?

And an unrelated comment - it probably would have gone over better if the BIL-free time had been planned for a different night.  Not the last night of the visit.  An opportunity to make the next visit better - "we really want the girls to have plenty of time to bond with you - can it be just you and the kids on nights X and Y?"  But definitely not the last day or two, and not without prior warning.  Of course nobody realized in advance that this visit would be so awkward with BIL, but that's the past now.

[pinball]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

I still think there are two conflicting rules operating here.

1) Arguendo, it's rude to temporarily exclude certain people from "your room" in the house you're visiting.

2) But it isn't rude to temporarily exclude the visitor's son from said house.

I'm in the camp that needs a break and closes ourselves in our room from time to time during a long visit.  (Long meaning more than a couple days.)  Never knew it was wrong ... and I have friends who would have told me if they disagreed ... but I'll allow that's a family culture thing.

In fact, I'm in the camp that teaches our kids to never bother visitors when they are in "their rooms," unless it's an emergency or something for the guests' comfort (like, "excuse me Granny, may I bring in some clean towels?" or "Granny, Mom says dinner will be served in 20 minutes:).  But again - probably a family culture thing.

But assuming a family culture of openness and inclusion, how does the OP's request to disinvite BIL fit into that?

And an unrelated comment - it probably would have gone over better if the BIL-free time had been planned for a different night.  Not the last night of the visit.  An opportunity to make the next visit better - "we really want the girls to have plenty of time to bond with you - can it be just you and the kids on nights X and Y?"  But definitely not the last day or two, and not without prior warning.  Of course nobody realized in advance that this visit would be so awkward with BIL, but that's the past now.

Your last paragraph sparked a thought:

grandma spent special time with the kids when she initially got there. The  orchard trip and the manicures. That is a good thing to do with kids, to do stuff right away at the beginning of the trip. 
 

Kinda like kids love for you to play with them right away, first thing in the morning or when you first come home from somewhere. It fills them up with good feelings.
 

Which sparks another thought:

not every child was included on the manicure trip. So the kids had a example of not everyone is included in every activity.