More misinformation in Uvalde

[Katy]

WaPo says the back door didn’t lock like it was supposed to. It wasn’t propped open. 

[Grace Hopper]

Also, I heard yesterday that the grandmother was a teacher aide and had worked in and had relationships with the students and teachers where the killings took place. 

[Idalou]

They disappeared the other thread, not sure why. I'm sure that helps the grieving. at least the smallest  amount of the teacher who was blamed initially.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Idalou

[WildflowerMom]

I also read that the police district is not cooperating with Texas officials.  Has anyone seen that on a reputable source? 
Can they actually do that? 

[Grace Hopper]

3 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

I also read that the police district is not cooperating with Texas officials.  Has anyone seen that on a reputable source? 
Can they actually do that? 

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/uvalde-police-school-district-longer-cooperating-texas-probe/story?id=85093405

[mommyoffive]

43 minutes ago, Idalou said:

They disappeared the other thread, not sure why. I'm sure that helps the grieving. at least the smallest  amount of the teacher who was blamed initially.

I was wondering what happened to the other thread.

[WildflowerMom]

I was getting most of my info from that thread.   Honestly I get better info here when crap happens in the world.    

[WildflowerMom]

Does anyone know who the school district police answer to?  I would think either Texas dept of public safety (but they’re not talking to them) or the school (and the school would force them to talk, I’m sure).   So I can’t grasp how they just stop cooperating.  

[Grace Hopper]

20 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

Does anyone know who the school district police answer to?  I would think either Texas dept of public safety (but they’re not talking to them) or the school (and the school would force them to talk, I’m sure).   So I can’t grasp how they just stop cooperating.  

Not sure. The other interesting thing I read is that not only did Arredondo stop cooperating with TDS, he was also quietly sworn in as a new Uvalde city council member.

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, Idalou said:

They disappeared the other thread, not sure why. I'm sure that helps the grieving. at least the smallest  amount of the teacher who was blamed initially.

 

36 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

I was wondering what happened to the other thread.

 

25 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

I was getting most of my info from that thread.   Honestly I get better info here when crap happens in the world.    

First rule of Fight Club….

 

I think this thread should stay open as long as it focuses on questions, facts and news stories related to the case, and doesn’t cross over into political figures or issues. So let’s strive for that. 

[Terabith]

2 hours ago, Grace Hopper said:

 

 

First rule of Fight Club….

 

I think this thread should stay open as long as it focuses on questions, facts and news stories related to the case, and doesn’t cross over into political figures or issues. So let’s strive for that. 

It doesn’t matter.  Anytime we try to talk about something that matters, it gets shut down.  I wish they’d just do it before people get invested.  Even on the hive, discourse doesn’t work.  There’s no hope for our society at all. 

[Katy]

23 minutes ago, Terabith said:

It doesn’t matter.  Anytime we try to talk about something that matters, it gets shut down.  I wish they’d just do it before people get invested.  Even on the hive, discourse doesn’t work.  There’s no hope for our society at all. 

Gently, that’s catastrophic thinking. It seems, statistically speaking, that most people want the changes that would fix this. It might take time but it will likely change eventually. 

[WildflowerMom]

22 minutes ago, Terabith said:

It doesn’t matter.  Anytime we try to talk about something that matters, it gets shut down.  I wish they’d just do it before people get invested.  Even on the hive, discourse doesn’t work.  There’s no hope for our society at all. 

I'm *almost* right there with you, tbh.    we're so damn divided.   After 9/11, people came together.   A slew of kids get shot (again) and we despise each other.   It's all so stupid and infuriating.  

Re: that thread, I'm wondering if something happened in the mid of night that got it shut down.   Trolls gonna troll.  

[Corraleno]

24 minutes ago, Terabith said:

It doesn’t matter.  Anytime we try to talk about something that matters, it gets shut down.  I wish they’d just do it before people get invested.  Even on the hive, discourse doesn’t work.  There’s no hope for our society at all. 

I wish they would just delete the specific posts they find offensive instead of deleting entire threads that are full of useful information and respectful discussion. Seems like that just punishes the people who weren't being disrespectful or "political," instead of just removing the offending posts.

[Grace Hopper]

6 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

I'm *almost* right there with you, tbh.    we're so damn divided.   After 9/11, people came together.   A slew of kids get shot (again) and we despise each other.   It's all so stupid and infuriating.  

Re: that thread, I'm wondering if something happened in the mid of night that got it shut down.   Trolls gonna troll.  

I did not see the last posts before it vaporized, so I don’t know what may have been said at the end. 
 

I will acknowledge that my outrage led me to break board rules and I’ll accept my share of the blame. But yeah, righteous anger should have a place. I do count this site as a vector for breaking news so I am willing to speak peaceably here (after a week of foaming at the mouth), because that is what our site host requests. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Grace Hopper

[WildflowerMom]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/01/us/uvalde-shooting-police-chief-pete-arredondo/index.html
 

here's Arredondo speaking to Shimon.   'As soon as the parents stop grieving... we'll release more information.'  🤦🏻‍♀️  

Eta: sorry, it's 'when the families quit grieving...'   🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️

Edited June 1, 2022 by WildflowerMom
Edited

[Drama Llama]

4 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/01/us/uvalde-shooting-police-chief-pete-arredondo/index.html
 

here's Arredondo speaking to Shimon.   'As soon as the parents stop grieving... we'll release more information.'  🤦🏻‍♀️  

Eta: sorry, it's 'when the families quit grieving...'   🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️

So, never?  Grieving your child isn't something you quit.

[Grace Hopper]

He said both “until after the funerals” and when “the families quit grieving.” 
 

Following a pattern of poor communication. 

[KSera]

Where do we put school shooting info that is unrelated to misinformation in Uvalde now? I’m thinking maybe we can start a new thread and hopefully nobody will derail it? In the meantime I wanted to share this short video. This is not okay. 

 

[Katy]

Put anything related to Uvalde here. 

[Ellie]

7 hours ago, WildflowerMom said:

Does anyone know who the school district police answer to?  I would think either Texas dept of public safety (but they’re not talking to them) or the school (and the school would force them to talk, I’m sure).   So I can’t grasp how they just stop cooperating.  

Well, actually, the article didn't describe any way in which the school district wasn't "cooperating," other than not doing any more interviews.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Ellie

[City Mouse]

The school district police department is completely separate from DPS, so DPS has no more authority over them than any other entity. My DH isn’t home right now, so I cant ask him now, but I will find out later if he know how the individual departments are authorized.

Also, I get the feeling that the DPS investigation is hinting at possible criminal, or at least civil, legal issues. At that point, the chief and his department are like any other suspect in an investigation and have a right not to say anything, but I don’t really know. I am just guessing.

[Katy]

4 minutes ago, City Mouse said:

The school district police department is completely separate from DPS, so DPS has no more authority over them than any other entity. My DH isn’t home right now, so I cant ask him now, but I will find out later if he know how the individual departments are authorized.

Also, I get the feeling that the DPS investigation is hinting at possible criminal, or at least civil, legal issues. At that point, the chief and his department are like any other suspect in an investigation and have a right not to say anything, but I don’t really know. I am just guessing.

Never lived in Texas, but I’m guessing civil & criminal charges against police are pending too.  

[Katy]

Ok, so now WaPo says it WAS propped open with a rock, but a teacher inside heard the shots outside, kicked the rock out of the way and closed the door. It didn’t lock like it was supposed to. Why didn’t the classroom door lock at that point too? Your guess is as good as mine. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Katy
Autocorrect

[WildflowerMom]

17 minutes ago, Katy said:

Never lived in Texas, but I’m guessing civil & criminal charges against police are pending too.  

This would be unprecedented, correct?

[Katy]

19 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

This would be unprecedented, correct?

I don’t know. But violating all training & procedures and refusing to go in or allow anyone else in when there are recordings of the phone calls, dispatch telling command that there were living children in that room… it’s quite clearly criminal negligence in my uneducated opinion. I have no idea what the exact laws are in Texas, but irresponsible police decisions generally have to be pretty bad to slide beyond basic immunity to manslaughter… I would suspect this qualifies, but keep in mind my experience is from listening to my dad complaining about situations in Florida more than 20 years ago. There were plenty of lawsuits but never anything like this. I don’t know if any of the lawyers here are in Texas & happen to be the type to go after police for damages or not, but my guess is that’s the kind of attorney that would know. 

[katilac]

I just wanted to add a thought based on what I have seen some teachers posting. 

I'm very glad that teacher got the door shut, because I know it would have haunted her. However, many teachers are saying that doors are propped open often, it's not some big rule violation, and there are various legitimate reasons for it. Sometimes things are being loaded and unloaded, as was the case here. Sometimes the class needs airing out, just because kids are stinky or because they are painting or doing science experiments that leave a strong smell. I don't remember all of what they said, but thinking that never leaving a door open is the solution is crazy imo. 

[Drama Llama]

2 hours ago, Ellie said:

Well, actually, the article didn't describe any way in which the school district wasn't "cooperating," other than not doing any more interviews.

Not responding to a request from law enforcement for an interview is pretty much they definition of not cooperating.  

[porque?]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

However, many teachers are saying that doors are propped open often, it's not some big rule violation, and there are various legitimate reasons for it. Sometimes things are being loaded and unloaded, as was the case here. Sometimes the class needs airing out, just because kids are stinky or because they are painting or doing science experiments that leave a strong smell. I don't remember all of what they said, but thinking that never leaving a door open is the solution is crazy imo. 

We have been keeping our doors open since Covid to increase ventilation. So open doors are actually the protocol at the school where I teach.

[Melissa in Australia]

News here is reporting another mass shooting in a hospital in Oklahoma 

[Ausmumof3]

11 hours ago, porque? said:

We have been keeping our doors open since Covid to increase ventilation. So open doors are actually the protocol at the school where I teach.

Yes this was my question on the giant thread that disappeared. Are teachers being expected to choose between covid safety and security risk? If all doors and windows have to be shut at all time, then class rooms need proper air filtration systems. 

[Bootsie]

12 hours ago, porque? said:

We have been keeping our doors open since Covid to increase ventilation. So open doors are actually the protocol at the school where I teach.

Are the exterior doors left open?  Or are you simply leaving interior, classroom doors open   Because the weather has been in the 90s and 100s in Texas in May, I don't know of any exterior doors of schools that have been propped open for ventilation.  

[Teaching3bears]

17 hours ago, KSera said:

Where do we put school shooting info that is unrelated to misinformation in Uvalde now? I’m thinking maybe we can start a new thread and hopefully nobody will derail it? In the meantime I wanted to share this short video. This is not okay. 

 

I want to live in a world where children don’t have to practice lockdown drills.

[ktgrok]

19 hours ago, Terabith said:

It doesn’t matter.  Anytime we try to talk about something that matters, it gets shut down.  I wish they’d just do it before people get invested.  Even on the hive, discourse doesn’t work.  There’s no hope for our society at all. 

I know it is frustrating to have the thread go away, but the discourse still happened. The thoughts were still explored and shared. A lot of people read that thread before it went away. People ..maybe not as many as we would hope...took something from what was said and shared, and I think some learning happened. The thread going away doesn't erase all that from the space/time continuum or from people's thoughts. 

Hugs. 

[Slache]

3 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I know it is frustrating to have the thread go away, but the discourse still happened. The thoughts were still explored and shared. A lot of people read that thread before it went away. People ..maybe not as many as we would hope...took something from what was said and shared, and I think some learning happened. The thread going away doesn't erase all that from the space/time continuum or from people's thoughts. 

Hugs. 

Yes. We are a conservative family and anti-gun restriction, but I think I may be changing my stance.

[Faith-manor]

18 hours ago, WildflowerMom said:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/01/us/uvalde-shooting-police-chief-pete-arredondo/index.html
 

here's Arredondo speaking to Shimon.   'As soon as the parents stop grieving... we'll release more information.'  🤦🏻‍♀️  

Eta: sorry, it's 'when the families quit grieving...'   🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️

What the hell? Is he nuts? These families will be grieving for the rest of their lives!!! 

[Faith-manor]

10 minutes ago, Teaching3bears said:

I want to live in a world where children don’t have to practice lockdown drills.

I am reminded today of the insanity last summer at school board meetings with parents screaming that children having to wear masks at school was traumatizing. Yet not one of these people had a fit about active shooter drills. So, kids can be confronted with the reality of terror and death, and practice for it, but no worries. A mask though, that is a bridge too far. I literally have no use for these people. Done. 100% done with these ammosexuals.

[WildflowerMom]

1 minute ago, Faith-manor said:

What the hell? Is he nuts? These families will be grieving for the rest of their lives!!! 

Exactly.   And he was smiling during the interview, going around shaking people’s hands.    This guy is something else.  

[QueenCat]

38 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

What the hell? Is he nuts? These families will be grieving for the rest of their lives!!! 

I have to wonder if he really meant "getting over the shock" of their deaths. There are definite stages of grief and of course they will always grieve, but in different ways. 

[Idalou]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

Are the exterior doors left open?  Or are you simply leaving interior, classroom doors open   Because the weather has been in the 90s and 100s in Texas in May, I don't know of any exterior doors of schools that have been propped open for ventilation.  

That day in Uvalde the weather was great. It was oddly cool and breezy, it was barely over 70 at 11:am.  So on that horrible day I can see how they would be wanting to bring the  outside in.

In fact, I heard local newsmen at the location remark more than once about the beauty of the day vs the events.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Idalou

[Drama Llama]

2 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Are the exterior doors left open?  Or are you simply leaving interior, classroom doors open   Because the weather has been in the 90s and 100s in Texas in May, I don't know of any exterior doors of schools that have been propped open for ventilation.  

Schools here had open windows and doors, and kids in tents all winter and all summer, including on days when the temp was below freezing or 100.

[Farrar]

While the other thread apparently went off the rails, just seconding what Katie said that I do feel like this board is one of a few places where people actually listen. I get frustrated and storm off from y'all sometimes, but I mostly feel like this board is a little oasis where people - while we do get ticked and cross lines - have vastly more respect than most online places and manage to have a lot more real discourse.

I'm glad someone pointed out that keeping all doors closed all the time is a terrible solution, no matter the weather. It's a school. It needs to be accessible and not be a prison for a bunch of reasons, even if there might also be ways to make it safer from criminals. Ironically, I was thinking that one way to make it safer might be to make sure that there are more doors that are routinely open. If there are doors that are open, then there are people and systems to close them that can be rehearsed in event of a lockdown. If a door is "sometimes propped open" then that may not be something that's part of a lockdown procedure. Just a thought.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Farrar

[Dmmetler]

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yes this was my question on the giant thread that disappeared. Are teachers being expected to choose between covid safety and security risk? If all doors and windows have to be shut at all time, then class rooms need proper air filtration systems. 

Mine as well. In addition, my room doesn't have a window in the door. In order to maintain safeguarding rules, I need to have the door open when there are children in the room. So how can I keep it open and closed at the same time? 

[Grace Hopper]

9 minutes ago, Farrar said:

While the other thread apparently went off the rails, just seconding what Katie said that I do feel like this board is one of a few places where people actually listen. I get frustrated and storm off from y'all sometimes, but I mostly feel like this board is a little oasis where people - while we do get ticked and cross lines - have vastly more respect than most online places and manage to have a lot more real discourse.

I'm glad someone pointed out that keeping all doors closed all the time is a terrible solution, no matter the weather. It's a school. It needs to be accessible and not be a prison for a bunch of reasons, even if there might also be ways to make it safer from criminals. Ironically, I was thinking that one way to make it safer might be to make sure that there are more doors that are routinely open. If there are doors that are open, then there are people and systems to close them that can be rehearsed in event of a lockdown. If a door is "sometimes propped open" then that may not be something that's part of a lockdown procedure. Just a thought.

I was never flummoxed that a door had been propped open. I was confused (and yes, angry) to think that in 12 minutes of shooting outside, no one had secured it. Now we know differently. 
 

I am sad that in a nation that glorifies freedom, our kids have to attend schools locked down like they’re highly offensive inmates. It simply shouldn’t be that way. 

[Grace Hopper]

11 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

Mine as well. In addition, my room doesn't have a window in the door. In order to maintain safeguarding rules, I need to have the door open when there are children in the room. So how can I keep it open and closed at the same time? 

I think we’re having the wrong debate, iykwim. 

[Farrar]

2 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

I was never flummoxed that a door had been propped open. I was confused (and yes, angry) to think that in 12 minutes of shooting outside, no one had secured it. Now we know differently. 
 

I am sad that in a nation that glorifies freedom, our kids have to attend schools locked down like they’re highly offensive inmates. It simply shouldn’t be that way. 

At one point, many areas were using the same contractors for their prisons and their schools. Sometimes even very similar exterior plans. So depressing.

[Farrar]

Just now, Grace Hopper said:

I think we’re having the wrong debate, iykwim. 

Plugging up the little leak in the levy while the hurricane sends the storm surge over the top to break the whole thing.

[happi duck]

1 hour ago, QueenCat said:

I have to wonder if he really meant "getting over the shock" of their deaths. There are definite stages of grief and of course they will always grieve, but in different ways. 

I don't have this much grace to give in this situation.  If there was ever a time to speak carefully this was it.  That said, I've lost so many people in my life and people really, truly say things like "aren't you over that yet?" Some people really do think grief can be "done".

[Drama Llama]

17 hours ago, Katy said:

Ok, so now WaPo says it WAS propped open with a rock, but a teacher inside heard the shots outside, kicked the rock out of the way and closed the door. It didn’t lock like it was supposed to. Why didn’t the classroom door lock at that point too? Your guess is as good as mine. 

Which classroom door? 

[Farrar]

Just now, Baseballandhockey said:

Which classroom door? 

I think she meant the exterior door?

This is what the WaPo piece says (in part):

Quote

In an interview with the San Antonio Express-News, an attorney who said he represents the teacher offered a different account. The attorney said the educator had called 911 to report the gunman crashing his vehicle nearby and closed the door while still on the phone.

The teacher ran inside to get her phone, called 911 and “kicked the rock away when she went back in,” attorney Don Flanary told the newspaper, apparently referring to a rock used to hold the door open. “She remembers pulling the door closed while telling 911 that he was shooting. She thought the door would lock because that door is always supposed to be locked.”

The article also said that this is essentially the account the police are now supporting.