More misinformation in Uvalde

[maize]

I've attended a school with high walled grounds and gates manned by armed guards. I've ridden school buses with rifle-toting guards in front.

That was in a country that was quite literally in the middle of a civil war.

It is not where I want to see things go in this country.

[Katy]

16 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Which classroom door? 

One of the articles I read said that in a lockdown both the classroom to hallway doors AND the doors between adjoining doors were supposed to automatically lock, but they didn’t, which is why there were 2 teachers and kids from both rooms. With all the other misinformation that’s come out I have no idea if that’s true. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I dropped my oldest off at school after an appointment this morning. The SRO had something off campus and wasn’t there.  When we walked up and I was going to buzz in another kid in the foyer between the double set of doors opened the door for us.  I was buzzed into the office to sign my kid in.  The doors were locked, and you have to be buzzed in, but both sets of doors are just glass.  They aren’t bulletproof.  All that would have to happen at either of my kids’ schools is for someone to shoot out those doors and step through. 
DS attends a special needs school that is specifically for kids with autism, cognitive delays and emotional disturbances/mental illness who cannot manage a regular school. All classes are 8:1:1 or 6:1:1.  I would think with the student population that it would be a more secure campus, but I felt today that it was anything but secure.  
 

I don’t think any of the schools my kids have attended have classroom doors that open to the outside, only an indoor hallway.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[porque?]

3 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Are the exterior doors left open?  Or are you simply leaving interior, classroom doors open   Because the weather has been in the 90s and 100s in Texas in May, I don't know of any exterior doors of schools that have been propped open for ventilation. 

The school where I work is very small and we are in a very mild climate. Most of the classrooms open directly to the outside,  for the others, yes, the exterior doors as well as the classroom doors are open. I do not want to work in a prison.

[ericathemom]

40 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I don’t think any of the schools my kids have attended have classroom doors that open to the outside, only an indoor hallway.

I live in California and every school I ever attended and have sent my children to have individual classrooms that open to the outside. I have heard that other climates have larger buildings with corridors with classrooms branching off; likely to keep kids out of harsh winter weather. However, in the areas of California I've lived in, we don't build schools like that; we have lovely weather. But, doors aren't the solution we're looking for here.

[rebcoola]

The school my dad taught at had no interior doors.  It was the shape of a four leaf clover and inside each leaf classrooms were only separated by movable folding walls.  Each classroom had a door directly to the outside. I doubt anyone is building schools like that anymore but the building is from the early 90's so still in use.  I can't imagine there is a good way to secure it or a cost effective way to remodel.  

The changes need to come in gun control there is simply no way to get rid of all soft targets.

[Corraleno]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

One of the articles I read said that in a lockdown both the classroom to hallway doors AND the doors between adjoining doors were supposed to automatically lock, but they didn’t, which is why there were 2 teachers and kids from both rooms. With all the other misinformation that’s come out I have no idea if that’s true. 

I don't think it's true that the classroom doors were supposed to automatically lock, based on what several of the survivors said. Kids in the room that was first attacked say their teacher "got an email" (maybe meant a text?) that there was a shooter and then she went to manually lock the classroom door, but the shooter was already there and pushed his way in. A child from another class said that he was on his way to the nurse's office when he saw the shooter in the hall, so he ran back to his class and told the teacher, who manually locked the door and told them to get down, and he heard the man jiggling the doorknob, but it was locked so he went to the next door.

And I guess the bigger issue seems to be whether a lockdown was even announced, and if so, when and how. It seems strange that the guy was outside the school for 12 [eta: they're now saying it was 5] minutes, shots were fired at people near the funeral home, and the teacher who closed the backdoor saw the guy had a gun and called 911, but there was no PA announcement or even just someone running down the hall yelling "shooter" or "lockdown" or something before he got in. According to the survivors, the shooter was already in the building before most teachers even knew there was an issue.

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Corraleno
correction

[Katy]

16 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I don't think it's true that the classroom doors were supposed to automatically lock, based on what several of the survivors said. Kids in the room that was first attacked say their teacher "got an email" (maybe meant a text?) that there was a shooter and then she went to manually lock the classroom door, but the shooter was already there and pushed his way in. A child from another class said that he was on his way to the nurse's office when he saw the shooter in the hall, so he ran back to his class and told the teacher, who manually locked the door and told them to get down, and he heard the man jiggling the doorknob, but it was locked so he went to the next door.

And I guess the bigger issue seems to be whether a lockdown was even announced, and if so, when and how. It seems strange that the guy was outside the school for 12 minutes, shots were fired at people near the funeral home, and the teacher who closed the backdoor saw the guy had a gun and called 911, but there was no PA announcement or even just someone running down the hall yelling "shooter" or "lockdown" or something before he got in. According to the survivors, the shooter was already in the building before most teachers even knew there was an issue.

Thank you. It seems strange that I believe a secondhand account from a child more than the reports from adults on the scene, but I bet you’re right. 

[Vintage81]

19 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I don't think it's true that the classroom doors were supposed to automatically lock, based on what several of the survivors said. Kids in the room that was first attacked say their teacher "got an email" (maybe meant a text?) that there was a shooter and then she went to manually lock the classroom door, but the shooter was already there and pushed his way in. A child from another class said that he was on his way to the nurse's office when he saw the shooter in the hall, so he ran back to his class and told the teacher, who manually locked the door and told them to get down, and he heard the man jiggling the doorknob, but it was locked so he went to the next door.

And I guess the bigger issue seems to be whether a lockdown was even announced, and if so, when and how. It seems strange that the guy was outside the school for 12 minutes, shots were fired at people near the funeral home, and the teacher who closed the backdoor saw the guy had a gun and called 911, but there was no PA announcement or even just someone running down the hall yelling "shooter" or "lockdown" or something before he got in. According to the survivors, the shooter was already in the building before most teachers even knew there was an issue.

I thought they changed the 12 minute timeframe that he was outside to 5 minutes. Did they change it back? I honestly can’t keep up anymore. 😕

[ktgrok]

4 hours ago, Slache said:

Yes. We are a conservative family and anti-gun restriction, but I think I may be changing my stance.

Thank you for this. It gives people hope, who really really need it. 

I know in my life, especially the latter part of my 46 yrs so far, I've changed my mind on some pretty big things, that I was dead sure about when younger. Mostly because I get less theoretical, and more practical, I think? Or more cynical, maybe? Or maybe neither, and that's just philosophical BS, and it is just the normal mind changing that happens when you have more data?

And we have a heck of a lot of data now about mass shootings, since they keep repeating. 

1 hour ago, rebcoola said:

The school my dad taught at had no interior doors.  It was the shape of a four leaf clover and inside each leaf classrooms were only separated by movable folding walls.  Each classroom had a door directly to the outside. I doubt anyone is building schools like that anymore but the building is from the early 90's so still in use.  I can't imagine there is a good way to secure it or a cost effective way to remodel.  

The changes need to come in gun control there is simply no way to get rid of all soft targets.

This is how my elementary school was!!!! Not sure about the clover bit, but yeah, outdoor hallways with an overhead covering but no walls, and the interior walls were moveable. I'd totally forgot about that part, actually, until you said it. 

I'll never forget walking to school when I was probably 1st grade, and the grounds had flooded closer to the neighborhood streets.  We all walked through the water, then put our soaked shoes and socks outside on the cement walkway to dry for the day. only day of barefoot school in my life - they dredged some drainage ponds in the front of the school the following summer so it didn't flood again. 

But anyway, looking back, there was a chain link fence around the back of the school, to designate the PE field, but the front was open, and with exterior hallways, no way to keep someone out. 

[ktgrok]

I was listening to the most recent Holy Post podcast, and once thing that came up was that after the buy back and ban on certain weapons in Australia only certain types of gun violence were reduced. Some criminals held on to their weapons - in fact a large percent of weapons were still out in the public. BUT - specifically mass shootings, suicides, and the killing of women in domestic violence situations were went down. That would be an amazing start here. And that all happened even without perfect compliance. 

[Harriet Vane]

3 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I was listening to the most recent Holy Post podcast, and once thing that came up was that after the buy back and ban on certain weapons in Australia only certain types of gun violence were reduced. Some criminals held on to their weapons - in fact a large percent of weapons were still out in the public. BUT - specifically mass shootings, suicides, and the killing of women in domestic violence situations were went down. That would be an amazing start here. And that all happened even without perfect compliance. 

And I think it's better to do *something* than nothing, kwim?

[MercyA]

5 hours ago, Slache said:

Yes. We are a conservative family and anti-gun restriction, but I think I may be changing my stance.

Same.

[Corraleno]

32 minutes ago, Vintage81 said:

I thought they changed the 12 minute timeframe that he was outside to 5 minutes. Did they change it back? I honestly can’t keep up anymore. 😕

You're right, it looks like they're now saying it was 5 minutes. 

11:28 Truck crashes, gunman shoots at people near the funeral home
11:30 Teacher calls 911
11:31  Gunman shoots at the school from the parking lot
11:33 Shooter inside the school
11:35 SEVEN police officers inside the school, outside the classroom door
12:03, 12:13, 12:16, 12:19, 12:21, 12:36, 12:43, 12:47 Traumatized children call 911, beg for help
12:50 They finally breach the classroom and kill the shooter

Seven cops outside the classroom door within 2 minutes, and they stood around for an hour and 15 minutes while 10 year olds risked their own lives to call for help.

[AnotherNewName]

19 hours ago, Katy said:

I don’t know. But violating all training & procedures and refusing to go in or allow anyone else in when there are recordings of the phone calls, dispatch telling command that there were living children in that room… it’s quite clearly criminal negligence in my uneducated opinion. I have no idea what the exact laws are in Texas, but irresponsible police decisions generally have to be pretty bad to slide beyond basic immunity to manslaughter… I would suspect this qualifies, but keep in mind my experience is from listening to my dad complaining about situations in Florida more than 20 years ago. There were plenty of lawsuits but never anything like this. I don’t know if any of the lawyers here are in Texas & happen to be the type to go after police for damages or not, but my guess is that’s the kind of attorney that would know. 

Criminal charges are unlikely based on what I have read so far.  The officers on scene were following orders from their commander, which generally would insulate them from criminal negligence. Police commanders making tactical decisions based on the information they have, which can often be constantly changing or contradictory, are also often protected.  They could face internal reviews/discipline but that would be internal and not criminal.

Civil liability is a whole other kettle of fish. 

[WildflowerMom]

9 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

You're right, it looks like they're now saying it was 5 minutes. 

11:28 Truck crashes, gunman shoots at people near the funeral home
11:30 Teacher calls 911
11:31  Gunman shoots at the school from the parking lot
11:33 Shooter inside the school
11:35 SEVEN police officers inside the school, outside the classroom door
12:03, 12:13, 12:16, 12:19, 12:21, 12:36, 12:43, 12:47 Traumatized children call 911, beg for help
12:50 They finally breach the classroom and kill the shooter

Seven cops outside the classroom door within 2 minutes, and they stood around for an hour and 15 minutes while 10 year olds risked their own lives to call for help.

Just when I thought it couldn’t get worse, it does.    How many children would be alive right this minute if only one of those cops had done one f’ing thing that day.  

[Vintage81]

13 minutes ago, AnotherNewName said:

Criminal charges are unlikely based on what I have read so far.  The officers on scene were following orders from their commander, which generally would insulate them from criminal negligence. Police commanders making tactical decisions based on the information they have, which can often be constantly changing or contradictory, are also often protected.  They could face internal reviews/discipline but that would be internal and not criminal.

Civil liability is a whole other kettle of fish. 

I may be misunderstanding/misremembering what happened...but in the George Floyd case, didn't the other officers that were standing around say they were just following orders and are now going to be serving jail time? I was just wondering if these officers would be facing a similar situation. 

[Vintage81]

18 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

You're right, it looks like they're now saying it was 5 minutes. 

11:28 Truck crashes, gunman shoots at people near the funeral home
11:30 Teacher calls 911
11:31  Gunman shoots at the school from the parking lot
11:33 Shooter inside the school
11:35 SEVEN police officers inside the school, outside the classroom door
12:03, 12:13, 12:16, 12:19, 12:21, 12:36, 12:43, 12:47 Traumatized children call 911, beg for help
12:50 They finally breach the classroom and kill the shooter

Seven cops outside the classroom door within 2 minutes, and they stood around for an hour and 15 minutes while 10 year olds risked their own lives to call for help.

Thanks for clarifying. It's infuriating knowing that they were in there for that long. I heard on one of the news reports that one of the little girls could hear the police officers outside. That must have been so scary and disheartening knowing that they were right on the other side of the wall but not coming in to help her. It makes me so mad. 

[Heartstrings]

31 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

And I think it's better to do *something* than nothing, kwim?

I think that’s one way the people against any kind of regs go about changing the subject.  If you’re brain storming how to reduce mass shooting they say it won’t help suicides.  If you start brainstorming on reducing suicide they point to gangs and round and round.  The conversations gets ended if a perfect law that fixes every gun problem all at once isn't produced.  It’s very effective for that side.  

[Harriet Vane]

3 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I think that’s one way the people against any kind of regs go about changing the subject.  If you’re brain storming how to reduce mass shooting they say it won’t help suicides.  If you start brainstorming on reducing suicide they point to gangs and round and round.  The conversations gets ended if a perfect law that fixes every gun problem all at once isn't produced.  It’s very effective for that side.  

Yes, exactly.

Most big problems are multi-faceted. Most big problems require multiple ways of addressing things. And often even if a good law goes into effect, it still takes time to implement and to see an actual result.

[AnotherNewName]

40 minutes ago, Vintage81 said:

I may be misunderstanding/misremembering what happened...but in the George Floyd case, didn't the other officers that were standing around say they were just following orders and are now going to be serving jail time? I was just wondering if these officers would be facing a similar situation. 

The key difference is they were in a clear position to act, Floyd was in their custody, and officers legally and ethically have an obligation to prevent another officer from breaking the law/violating rights.  As I understand the scene in Ulvade, the officers were under the orders of a superior relaying tactical commands. Entirely different situations.

[Vintage81]

9 minutes ago, AnotherNewName said:

The key difference is they were in a clear position to act, Floyd was in their custody, and officers legally and ethically have an obligation to prevent another officer from breaking the law/violating rights.  As I understand the scene in Ulvade, the officers were under the orders of a superior relaying tactical commands. Entirely different situations.

Got it…thanks for explaining 

[Katy]

A lawyer’s take:

 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

On 6/2/2022 at 2:33 PM, AnotherNewName said:

The key difference is they were in a clear position to act, Floyd was in their custody, and officers legally and ethically have an obligation to prevent another officer from breaking the law/violating rights.  As I understand the scene in Ulvade, the officers were under the orders of a superior relaying tactical commands. Entirely different situations.

As someone who’s been on MCIs though in a different capacity, you’re taught to assume that the person in charge(OIC) likely has more information than you.  So you do what they tell you because the assumption is that they know more about the situation than you do.  It sounds like someone believed that there was nobody left alive in the room, which means that the information from the 911 calls was not being relayed.  One of the dispatcher FB sites I’m on stated that Uvdale only had two 911 dispatchers at any given time.  It’s hard to continually relay information when you’re receiving a lot of 911 calls and coordinating things as a dispatcher.  I think it’s easy to forget what a very small town this is.

[ktgrok]

8 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

As someone who’s been on MCIs though in a different capacity, you’re taught to assume that the person in charge(OIC) likely has more information than you.  So you do what they tell you because the assumption is that they know more about the situation than you do.  It sounds like someone believed that there was nobody left alive in the room, which means that the information from the 911 calls was not being relayed.  One of the dispatcher FB sites I’m on stated that Uvdale only had two 911 dispatchers at any given time.  It’s hard to continually relay information when you’re receiving a lot of 911 calls and coordinating things as a dispatcher.  I think it’s easy to forget what a very small town this is.

But even if they thought all the kids had been shot, that wouldn't mean they were all dead. There would be no way to know if they were dead, vs bleeding out and in need of medical attention without actually going in. That's what i don't get. 

[TravelingChris]

I know that in some  Alaska towns there are so few people, and so much criminality- though a lot is low level-not gang- that the police all have records.

 

 

[Katy]

19 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

As someone who’s been on MCIs though in a different capacity, you’re taught to assume that the person in charge(OIC) likely has more information than you.  So you do what they tell you because the assumption is that they know more about the situation than you do.  It sounds like someone believed that there was nobody left alive in the room, which means that the information from the 911 calls was not being relayed.  One of the dispatcher FB sites I’m on stated that Uvdale only had two 911 dispatchers at any given time.  It’s hard to continually relay information when you’re receiving a lot of 911 calls and coordinating things as a dispatcher.  I think it’s easy to forget what a very small town this is.

Except for the released recordings of the dispatcher begging them to go in.

[ktgrok]

4 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I know that in some  Alaska towns there are so few people, and so much criminality- though a lot is low level-not gang- that the police all have records.

 

 

I think you mean towns that have only maybe 2 public safety officers, and yes, it's an issue. But not sure how it is relevant to a place like this, that has a full police department, a swat team, a separate school district police department, etc?

[TravelingChris]

6 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I think you mean towns that have only maybe 2 public safety officers, and yes, it's an issue. But not sure how it is relevant to a place like this, that has a full police department, a swat team, a separate school district police department, etc?

Yes- I think they do only have one or two.  BUt it was multiple towns having this issue.

[TravelingChris]

It is a small town- how many police do they have?  I would think that their SWAT team is regular officers who do SWAT when needed.

[AnotherNewName]

30 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

As someone who’s been on MCIs though in a different capacity, you’re taught to assume that the person in charge(OIC) likely has more information than you.  So you do what they tell you because the assumption is that they know more about the situation than you do.  It sounds like someone believed that there was nobody left alive in the room, which means that the information from the 911 calls was not being relayed.  One of the dispatcher FB sites I’m on stated that Uvdale only had two 911 dispatchers at any given time.  It’s hard to continually relay information when you’re receiving a lot of 911 calls and coordinating things as a dispatcher.  I think it’s easy to forget what a very small town this is.

I have not followed all of the news but what you said squares with what I heard recently about the 911 calls not being relayed.

[City Mouse]

6 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

It is a small town- how many police do they have?  I would think that their SWAT team is regular officers who do SWAT when needed.

I would guess that there is no “SWAT” team for the local departments. They would probably have to call the state police for SWAT, and I am guessing that would come from San Antonio and take several hours to deploy. The team that did show up and take down the perp from Boarder Patrol most likely was the closest team. They not reason they were able to respond as quickly as they did was because they were already active on a different situation near by. 

Edited to add: I live in a very small town in an area of other small towns all smaller than Uvalde. The nearest “Swat” type team     Comes from over 2 hrs away and that is drive time only. Even then, it is not a full-time thing for those officer, so they all have to be called up from their regular positions, out of bed, etc. So it takes time for them to even get ready to start traveling. 
The town I live in has 3 police officers when fully staffed. The Sherriff department has less than 15 officers working 2 shifts and covering a county of 5,000 sq miles. If someone attacked one of our school, I don’t see things ending much differently unfortunately. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by City Mouse

[Katy]

Reports that calls were not relayed are false. The recordings of the dispatcher talking to command snd begging them to go in so she could tell the girl on the phone they were coming were in ABC snd probably every other station. They didn’t care if the rest of the children died, and they apparently have no legal duty to intervene. They didn’t care about the ethics and knew there was nothing that could legally be done. I’m guessing they need protection now. 

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, City Mouse said:

I would guess that there is no “SWAT” team for the local departments. They would probably have to call the state police for SWAT, and I am guessing that would come from San Antonio and take several hours to deploy. The team that did show up and take down the perp from Boarder Patrol most likely was the closest team. They not reason they were able to respond as quickly as they did was because they were already active on a different situation near by. 
 

You’re incorrect, SWAT was there. 

[TravelingChris]

So is generalized cowardice the issue? Or just obeying stupid commands.  Apparently the Border Patrol agents weren't under his command and just decided to go in.  Otherwise, how long would they have waited????

[KSera]

14 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

It is a small town- how many police do they have?  I would think that their SWAT team is regular officers who do SWAT when needed.

According to this, they have 40 officers.

eta: from https://policescorecard.org/tx/police-department/uvalde

Edited June 3, 2022 by KSera
adding source

[City Mouse]

24 minutes ago, Katy said:

You’re incorrect, SWAT was there. 

Yes, there was a team there, but which department was it from? The only one I have read about was the team from Border Patrol. 
 
edited to fix spelling errors

Edited June 3, 2022 by City Mouse

[AnotherNewName]

12 minutes ago, Katy said:

Reports that calls were not relayed are false. The recordings of the dispatcher talking to command snd begging them to go in so she could tell the girl on the phone they were coming were in ABC snd probably every other station. They didn’t care if the rest of the children died, and they apparently have no legal duty to intervene. They didn’t care about the ethics and knew there was nothing that could legally be done. I’m guessing they need protection now. 

The 911 calls went to command.  Do you know command relayed that information to the officers on the scene?  My understanding is that when it was said the calls weren't relayed it was in reference to officers at the school.

[Drama Llama]

19 minutes ago, City Mouse said:

The town I live in has 3 police officers when fully staffed. 

There were 7 officers in the hallway within 2 minutes of the shooter entering the school.  Their force must be significantly larger than yours.  

[Heartstrings]

35 minutes ago, Katy said:

Except for the released recordings of the dispatcher begging them to go in.

I haven’t seen that.   I keep finding new levels of outrage.  

[KSera]

1 minute ago, Baseballandhockey said:

There were 7 officers in the hallway within 2 minutes of the shooter entering the school.  Their force must be significantly larger than yours.  

Posted, above, as of 2020 they had 40 officers.

[Idalou]

33 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

It is a small town- how many police do they have?  I would think that their SWAT team is regular officers who do SWAT when needed.

The school district employs 6 officers. The article I read said they city has a  SWAT team and 40 officers, but didn't say if they were included in the 40. 40% of city budget goes to police department

... Sorry! I see its been posted already

Edited June 3, 2022 by Idalou

[Katy]

15 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

So is generalized cowardice the issue? Or just obeying stupid commands.  Apparently the Border Patrol agents weren't under his command and just decided to go in.  Otherwise, how long would they have waited????

Command handled it like a hostage situation instead of an hour long shooting with living people in the room. 

5 minutes ago, AnotherNewName said:

The 911 calls went to command.  Do you know command relayed that information to the officers on the scene?  My understanding is that when it was said the calls weren't relayed it was in reference to officers at the school.

It doesn’t matter, it’s the commander’s decision and problem. They can’t ignore command in a situation like this. Border patrol must have gotten sick of the situation and either called their boss for permission to ignore command or decided it was better to shoot first and ask forgiveness later. 

[KSera]

9 minutes ago, City Mouse said:

Yes, there was a tram there, but which department was it from? The only one I have read about was the team from Boarder Patrol. 

The Uvalde police department Facebook page has a picture of their SWAT team with 9 members.

https://www.facebook.com/uvaldepd/photos/a.984027511630606/2986614501371887/?_rdr

[AnotherNewName]

11 minutes ago, Katy said:

It doesn’t matter, it’s the commander’s decision and problem. They can’t ignore command in a situation like this. Border patrol must have gotten sick of the situation and either called their boss for permission to ignore command or decided it was better to shoot first and ask forgiveness later. 

It does matter when discussing the actions of the officers on scene.  You are trying to have an argument that is not related to anything said ITT.

[Idalou]

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/26/texas-uvalde-shooting-harden-schools/

This is not about misinformation, but I'm sure it does not bode well for Texas at all. Read the last half of the article. The law passed after their last school shooting dictated that all 1022 districts must have an active shooter plan + emergency weather plan in place. An audit showed only 67 districts had a viable overall plan! It also says that most reported they did, which sounds like most were not telling the truth?

Also, the article says that the school district used some of their grant to install perimeter fencing to limit access to the school. But according to call the photos and videos,  it looks like just a basic chain link fence for yards, maybe 4 feet high??

Edited June 3, 2022 by Idalou

[Drama Llama]

 

57 minutes ago, Katy said:

Except for the released recordings of the dispatcher begging them to go in.

Washington Post reports that Arredondo, the officer in charge, did not have that information

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/what-did-police-know-as-the-texas-school-shooting-unfolded/2022/06/03/9c641886-e375-11ec-ae64-6b23e5155b62_story.html

in part because he was not carrying a radio

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-politics-texas-shootings-6900bca21a95c38bff9183cf1ea103f0

When surrounded by officers, most or all of whom would have been carrying radios, that seems like an incredibly easy thing to solve, which makes me wonder if he just completely shut down.  Not that that's an excuse, at all, for what happened. 

[Katy]

I’m not going to open the video right now because of the ages of the kids in the room with me, but I think it was this one. 

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/full-victims-video-appears-show-texas-911-dispatchers/story?id=85077976

[Drama Llama]

3 minutes ago, Katy said:

I’m not going to open the video right now because of the ages of the kids in the room with me, but I think it was this one. 

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/full-victims-video-appears-show-texas-911-dispatchers/story?id=85077976

There doesn't seem to be any doubt that there were police officers who knew there were living children in the room, but if the Arredondo wasn't carrying a radio (I have no idea how that happened.  I would think all he had to do was grab the nearest officer and ask for his radio), he may not have known, and it appears that it was his order to wait that was being followed.  

[Corraleno]

From NYT:

"The officers who finally breached the locked classrooms with a janitor’s key were not a formal tactical unit, according to a person briefed on the response. The officers, including specially trained Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents and a sheriff’s deputy, formed an ad hoc group on their own and gathered in the hallway outside the classroom, a tense space where they said there appeared to be no chain of command.

They were done waiting for permission, one of them said, according to the person, before they moved toward the classroom where the gunman waited. They continued even after one of them heard a command crackling in his earpiece: Do not breach.

They entered the room and killed the gunman.

The actions by Chief Arredondo and the array of officers he suddenly directed — which grew to number more than 140, from local, state and federal agencies, including state troopers, sheriff’s deputies, constables and game wardens — are now the subject of overlapping investigations by the Texas Rangers, the Justice Department and the local district attorney’s office."

Link to "gifted" article  (should be readable without subscription)

Edited June 4, 2022 by Corraleno