Shall we talk about that other variant?

[Arcadia]

My in-laws were supposed to visit us in March 2020 to shop (that’s what they do every visit). Pandemic stopped all international travels. Now my in-laws are thinking of coming over to the states for a shopping vacation and stay in AirBnB.  My country of origin has monkeypox cases as well and FIL has prostrate cancer. My husband is masking in office as well so if my in-laws were to drop by enroute, my husband would probably be the only one meeting them for a meal outdoors. Cases are climbing in my county and people in general aren’t willing to mask or social distance anymore unless local hospitals run out of room.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Arcadia
Typo

[Corraleno]

27 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

Seriously, you need to take this to PM, she travels.   The immaturity you’re showing is beyond the pale, really embarrassing bx, tbh.  

The irony of stalking someone all over social media and joining a forum just to harass and insult them, saying "aren't you sorry now that you called people like me douchebags??"...  while proving beyond any doubt that the epithet was entirely deserved in this case.

[desertflower]

She Travels and Quill please be civil.  I'm not pointing fingers, but just wanted to remind you guys to be civil.

She Travels - I will report you to Susan if I get another report about you harassing Quill.

[Catwoman]

23 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

The irony of stalking someone all over social media and joining a forum just to harass and insult them, saying "aren't you sorry now that you called people like me douchebags??"...  while proving beyond any doubt that the epithet was entirely deserved in this case.

I’m still trying to figure out what her old username was! 

Not that I’m nosy.

It’s scientific research, I tell you! 😉 

[mathnerd]

57 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

My in-laws were supposed to visit us in March 2020 to shop (that’s what they do every visit). Pandemic stopped all international travels. Now my in-laws is thinking of coming over to the states for a shopping vacation and stay in AirBnB.  My country of origin has monkeypox cases as well and FIL has prostrate cancer. My husband is masking in office as well so if my in-laws were to drop by enroute, my husband would probably be the only one meeting them for a meal outdoors. Cases are climbing in my county and people in general aren’t willing to mask or social distance anymore unless local hospitals run out of room.

Same here! The in-laws near and far have had enough of staying home! I have had to refuse two different requests for dropping in to visit my home bluntly because these sets of in-laws are doing the Grand Tour of visiting all the relatives in California (a lot of family here) and I am pretty sure none of them are masking, social distancing or testing when they have symptoms. And my in-laws believe that they are invincible because “they never get sick”, will not mask and actually use the phrase “Faith, not Fear”. The local schools are reporting triple digit cases every week. 5 of my son’s friends tested positive this week.

[Arcadia]

@mathnerd my in-laws do not have relatives here except us. They are shopaholics and the premium outlets are so much cheaper than asia so it is more a grand tour of premium outlets 🤦‍♀️ They are also anti-mask, anti-social distancing and had no reactions to the vaccination and booster. They are eligible for 2nd booster but not doing that.
The test center where my DS16 took his ap exams required a negative rapid test result. My teens mask even for outdoors and they rarely go out.

OT: hope you managed to get your roma tomatoes.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Arcadia
typo

[mathnerd]

18 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

@mathnerd my in-laws doesn’t have relatives here except us. They are shopaholics and the premium outlets are so much cheaper than asia so it is more a grand tour of premium outlets 🤦‍♀️ They are also anti-mask, anti-social distancing and had no reactions to the vaccination and booster. They are eligible for 2nd booster but not doing that.
The test center where my DS16 took his ap exams required a negative rapid test result. My teens mask even for outdoors and they rarely go out.

OT: hope you managed to get your roma tomatoes.

Yup, I had my DH stop by at my local Safeway to pick up the roma tomatoes! Thanks for the tip!

[KSera]

48 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

Same here! The in-laws near and far have had enough of staying home! I have had to refuse two different requests for dropping in to visit my home bluntly because these sets of in-laws are doing the Grand Tour of visiting all the relatives in California (a lot of family here) and I am pretty sure none of them are masking, social distancing or testing when they have symptoms.

We're in this situation as well, with the added complication of an unvaccinated little one. They ask with not even a mention of covid or precautions, as if it's totally gone. I am so tired of being the bad guy.

[She Travels]

1 hour ago, desertflower said:

She Travels and Quill please be civil.  I'm not pointing fingers, but just wanted to remind you guys to be civil.

She Travels - I will report you to Susan if I get another report about you harassing Quill.

I’m not trying to harass Quill. I’m agreeing with her!

Edited May 19, 2022 by desertflower
Stay on topic

[desertflower]

7 minutes ago, She Travels said:

I’m not trying to harass Quill. I’m agreeing with her!

I think she has made it clear that she doesn't want to discuss this matter with you on this forum. 

And many people are reporting that you are harassing her.

And you are not staying on topic. 

You should just let it go. 

[Paige]

9 hours ago, Quill said:

I’m not saying they didn’t prevent deaths and it would have been my hope that every eligible person got vaxed. It just annoys me that the official communications to the public shifted and “they” pretend that was the goal all along. Like, TPTB said, “If everyone gets vaccinated, we can protect our vulnerable population, ditch the masks, and move into something more like normal life.” But, when that didn’t happen, TPTB changed their tune (multiple times, actually) and then pretended that, all along, the goal was reducing hospitalizations and deaths. Even when fully vaxed people first started getting Covid anyway, which in my non-scientific observation was summer, 2021 and was months and months before Omicron rose, they were first called “breakthrough” cases. Remember that? And of course, there are breakthrough cases, we know that, no vax is 100%. But in the months following, they *stopped* saying “breakthrough cases”; that term is never used anymore. If a person who tests positive is also vaxed and boosted, it is a footnote in the conversation. It’s like, “Yeah, Aunt Mable just tested positive for COVID….yeah, she is fully vaxed and boosted.” 
 

Anyway…I feel how I feel. I’m not saying it’s 100% logical. It’s just how I feel. I thought I was getting the vax and encouraging others to get the vax and arguing wi the my husband about getting the vax and persuading my mom to get the vax because we would all be much better off by now. But that did not happen, the anti-vax people mostly feel vindicated and I’m *still* having to worry about riding a bus to New York for five hours, sitting in a movie theater to watch Secrets of Dumbledore, and hoping my son’s graduation doesn’t suddenly go virtual. So, I am bitterly disappointed. It’s not necessarily logical, it just *is*. 

But that's an if, then statement. When the if didn't happen, they had to moderate the then. We don't know what would have happened if they had gotten nearly everyone vaccinated and masking quickly. It may not have helped much unless we had truly global cooperation. 

I agree that CDC messaging has been terribly inconsistent, however. I still feel vaccination provides protection against serious disease and I am angry that they are slow rolling the under 5s. It's like the FDA doesn't care- there's no urgency. Grandparents don't care- they see nobody else caring about covid anymore and think we shouldn't care. Other parents don't care. But my 4yr old is getting tested for asthma soon and I have NO desire to see how he fares with covid with no protection. 

 

[Murphy101]

I’m pretty much right where Quill is.

Dh and I were just talking about boosters last night.  The CDC said from the start that most likely this would end up being a seasonal vaccine like the flu, which while never even 90% has saved millions over the years. But a once every fall shot is a hard enough sell for adults to get on board for.  It’s starting to look like a quarterly boost that’s tweaked for the suspected most concerning variants cropping up is more necessary. And frankly, pro vax as I am, I’m not on board for that at this point. I don’t think the CD, or media will be able to sell that to enough of the public to make it effective. 

[Murphy101]

As for Quills stalker. Geez. Say what people want about “cancel culture” but for those of us who have realized we aren’t canceling a relationship that never existed but just the friendly image of abuse we no longer want to subject ourselves to - that block button is a gift.

Good on Quill for using it. Seems like it was a good idea.  

[kokotg]

31 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I’m pretty much right where Quill is.

Dh and I were just talking about boosters last night.  The CDC said from the start that most likely this would end up being a seasonal vaccine like the flu, which while never even 90% has saved millions over the years. But a once every fall shot is a hard enough sell for adults to get on board for.  It’s starting to look like a quarterly boost that’s tweaked for the suspected most concerning variants cropping up is more necessary. And frankly, pro vax as I am, I’m not on board for that at this point. I don’t think the CD, or media will be able to sell that to enough of the public to make it effective. 

I had my booster in the fall, and it's looking like the next one for people under 50/not immunocompromised will probably be this coming fall...I don't know; we'll see what happens, but at this point I don't think there's any reason to assume there will be shots more than once a year, at least for most people. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, kokotg said:

I had my booster in the fall, and it's looking like the next one for people under 50/not immunocompromised will probably be this coming fall...I don't know; we'll see what happens, but at this point I don't think there's any reason to assume there will be shots more than once a year, at least for most people. 

Interesting…the state system for vaccines keeps sending me texts telling me I am eligible for the fourth shot. I don’t think il be getting that until this fall. Like Murphy, pro-vax notwithstanding, I’m not interested in getting boosted again already. I probably have said this before but I expect I have a higher probability of having a cancer recurrence than to have Covid with complications. And, while I sure do hope I don’t have to go through *that* again, I simply do not expend mental energy worrying about cancer coming back. I do what I can to make it less likely and then I hope for the best. 

[catz]

16 minutes ago, kokotg said:

I had my booster in the fall, and it's looking like the next one for people under 50/not immunocompromised will probably be this coming fall...I don't know; we'll see what happens, but at this point I don't think there's any reason to assume there will be shots more than once a year, at least for most people. 

I agree.  I mean ideally we'd probably have an updated flu shot a couple times a year too but that also isn't realisitc.  And really people may or may not get it.  But having the history with it and memory cells able to activate may still prevent a lot of worse case scenarios.  

The data on 4th doses for ages 50-60 is really not there now.  But I am glad they did leave that open ended just because a lot of people in this country don't get regular health care and may have heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc creeping up and be more vulnerable or have known family history.  So I don't find it problematic people aren't jumping at the 4th dose.  The booster data still looks great in our state, we still get data 5 days a week with breakthroughs, hospitilizations, etc etc etc.  Plenty of reputable sources aren't making a blanket recommendation on that 4th dose.  (healthy people under 65, those with known omicron cases, etc could wait)

I did get my 4th dose but my dad's heart was attacked by a virus when he was in his 50's (which did lead to an early death though not immediately, I think we'll be seeing more of that as time goes on)  so though I am relatively healthy, I am paranoid about family history.  A nephew on that side of the family was hospitilized with MIS-C including heart involvement with covid at age 14 so doesn't seem like a stretch.  

Edited May 19, 2022 by catz

[kokotg]

8 minutes ago, catz said:

I agree.  I mean ideally we'd probably have an updated flu shot a couple times a year too but that also isn't realisitc.  And really people may or may not get it.  But having the history with it and memory cells able to activate may still prevent a lot of worse case scenarios.  

The data on 4th doses for ages 50-65 is really not there now.  But I am glad they did leave that open ended just because a lot of people in this country don't get regular health care and may have heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc creeping up and be more vulnerable or have known family history.  So I don't find it problematic people aren't jumping at the 4th dose.  The booster data still looks great in our state, we still get data 5 days a week with breakthroughs, hospitilizations, etc etc etc.  

I did get my 4th dose but my dad's heart was attacked by a virus when he was in his 50's (which did lead to an early death though not immediately, I think we'll be seeing more of that as time goes on)  so though I am relatively healthy, I am paranoid about family history.  A nephew on that side of the family was hospitilized with MIS-C including heart involvement with covid at age 14 so doesn't seem like a stretch.  

I'm 47, so no 4th shot for me yet, but I'd likely be conflicted if I could get one. My husband's on an immunosuppressant and is a high school teacher (no masks required since Feb), so he got his 4th shot as soon as he was eligible. But at this point I might decide to wait for fall even if I were eligible, particularly because summer is when school and kid activities wind down and we're better able to limit exposure. I really want a better, more targeted vaccine in the fall (and I don't know, but I suspect, that if we'd been able to do more targeted boosters last fall/winter, we wouldn't be talking about 4th shots for anyone right now). 

Edited May 19, 2022 by kokotg

[Murphy101]

37 minutes ago, kokotg said:

I had my booster in the fall, and it's looking like the next one for people under 50/not immunocompromised will probably be this coming fall...I don't know; we'll see what happens, but at this point I don't think there's any reason to assume there will be shots more than once a year, at least for most people. 

We got our first shot of moderna pretty soon after they came available - then we  have had 3 boosters since then, at roughly 2-3 months apart each.  So basically 4 shots in a 12 months span.

We usually do the fall flu shots when they are free to get. Flu in our house seems to be either a few days of a bad cold or holy heck for a week and a half. Now the holy heck versions are not the norm for us but memorizable enough to not want a house full of it ever again if we can afford to avoid it. This will not be a year we do any vaccines that aren’t free for anyone other than Dh, who has type 1 diabetes and is the only breadwinner. 

[Corraleno]

17 minutes ago, kokotg said:

 I really want a better, more targeted vaccine in the fall (and I don't know, but I suspect, that if we'd been able to do more targeted boosters last fall/winter, we wouldn't be talking about 4th shots for anyone right now). 

They tested vaccines that were specifically targeted to Alpha and Delta, and found they were no more effective than the original one. And obviously they didn't know that Omicron, which was totally unrelated to the other variants that were circulating at the time, was going to come out of nowhere with a huge number of mutations. That's the problem with trying to target a specific variant — if the next big variant comes from a totally different line, you could be worse off.

I believe that Pfizer and Moderna are both testing bivalent vaccines for fall that would include both the original vaccine as well as one targeted to Omicron. Although it's likely that the next variant will come from the Omicron line, we could get blindsided again by something that came from one of the other lines, in which case including what is basically a booster of the original version might provide some backup, since that's the base from which all the other variants evolved.

[kokotg]

Just now, Murphy101 said:

We got our first shot of moderna pretty soon after they came available - then we  have had 3 boosters since then, at roughly 2-3 months apart each.  So basically 4 shots in a 12 months span.

We usually do the fall flu shots when they are free to get. Flu in our house seems to be either a few days of a bad cold or holy heck for a week and a half. Now the holy heck versions are not the norm for us but memorizable enough to not want a house full of it ever again if we can afford to avoid it. This will not be a year we do any vaccines that aren’t free for anyone other than Dh, who has type 1 diabetes and is the only breadwinner. 

The second shot was never a booster, though--it was always a two shot series. It's not at all unusual for a vaccination to initially be a series of several shots...I happen to have just picked up my kids' vaccine records, so I can see right now that my 9 year old had 4 separate DTap shots by the time he was 18 months old, and then another one when he was 5.  4 polio shots by the time he was 4. 

[kokotg]

2 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

They tested vaccines that were specifically targeted to Alpha and Delta, and found they were no more effective than the original one. And obviously they didn't know that Omicron, which was totally unrelated to the other variants that were circulating at the time, was going to come out of nowhere with a huge number of mutations. That's the problem with trying to target a specific variant — if the next big variant comes from a totally different line, you could be worse off.

I believe that Pfizer and Moderna are both testing bivalent vaccines for fall that would include both the original vaccine as well as one targeted to Omicron. Although it's likely that the next variant will come from the Omicron line, we could get blindsided again by something that came from one of the other lines, in which case including what is basically a booster of the original version might provide some backup, since that's the base from which all the other variants evolved.

Yeah, I was mostly thinking if they'd been able to do omicron, which, of course, they couldn't. But the bivalent is the one I want! And intranasal. Or that one the army's working on that would protect against all coronaviruses. Basically, I want someone to come up with a perfect vaccine that fixes everything. Is that really so much to ask?! 😉 

[Spryte]

Just now, kokotg said:

Yeah, I was mostly thinking if they'd been able to do omicron, which, of course, they couldn't. But the bivalent is the one I want! And intranasal. Or that one the army's working on that would protect against all coronaviruses. Basically, I want someone to come up with a perfect vaccine that fixes everything. Is that really so much to ask?! 😉 

I’m with you. Team Dream Vaccine!

[Murphy101]

4 minutes ago, kokotg said:

The second shot was never a booster, though--it was always a two shot series. It's not at all unusual for a vaccination to initially be a series of several shots...I happen to have just picked up my kids' vaccine records, so I can see right now that my 9 year old had 4 separate DTap shots by the time he was 18 months old, and then another one when he was 5.  4 polio shots by the time he was 4. 

Yes. I understand that. And you understand that. And maybe 5 other people on the plant seem to understand that. But usually after the initial series it’s several years (5 or 10) before a booster is recommended.

We have no idea if a booster will be what’s needed once a year of a whole new series plus boosters every year.  TPTB have zero idea at this point.  I’m saying for my household, I don’t think we will consider another single shot until fall ‘22 or even ‘23 at this point with the information we currently have.  Obviously we could be persuaded possibly with new info. But current info isn’t convincing us it’s worth it yet. 

[kokotg]

I would also just like to say that I am so flummoxed that anti-vax people can look at data about how much more likely to die of covid the unvaccinated are and feel "vindicated." Like I think the latest data is that the unvaccinated are 5x as likely to die with the new variants as people with 2 doses, with a much starker difference vs. people who are boosted. While I have already made my desire for a magic, perfect vaccine known, that doesn't sound the least bit vindicating to me. I will stubbornly cling to my big pharma-fueled conviction that being less likely to die is way better than being more likely to die.

[TexasProud]

9 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

 

We have no idea if a booster will be what’s needed once a year of a whole new series plus boosters every year.  TPTB have zero idea at this point.  I’m saying for my household, I don’t think we will consider another single shot until fall ‘22 or even ‘23 at this point with the information we currently have.  Obviously we could be persuaded possibly with new info. But current info isn’t convincing us it’s worth it yet. 

Yep, my husband and I have no plans to get a 4th shot until a year after 3rd booster if then. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Murphy101 said:

I’m pretty much right where Quill is.

Dh and I were just talking about boosters last night.  The CDC said from the start that most likely this would end up being a seasonal vaccine like the flu, which while never even 90% has saved millions over the years. But a once every fall shot is a hard enough sell for adults to get on board for.  It’s starting to look like a quarterly boost that’s tweaked for the suspected most concerning variants cropping up is more necessary. And frankly, pro vax as I am, I’m not on board for that at this point. I don’t think the CD, or media will be able to sell that to enough of the public to make it effective. 

The key difference between covid and flu for me is the seasonal aspect. Flu is strongly seasonal so a shot that provides a few months protection is helpful. Covid is developing a bit of a rhythm but we’re still getting huge waves in summer and autumn which makes it hard to think the three months the shots give is going to help much. And then the Israeli data shows limited value with the fourth shot as well, so we really need the updated versions soon.

[Murphy101]

 

 

2 minutes ago, kokotg said:

I would also just like to say that I am so flummoxed that anti-vax people can look at data about how much more likely to die of covid the unvaccinated are and feel "vindicated." Like I think the latest data is that the unvaccinated are 5x as likely to die with the new variants as people with 2 doses, with a much starker difference vs. people who are boosted. While I have already made my desire for a magic, perfect vaccine known, that doesn't sound the least bit vindicating to me. I will stubbornly cling to my big pharma-fueled conviction that being less likely to die is way better than being more likely to die.

I agree.  But I have never seen such comments as vindication so much as ego stroking.  From either side.

[Murphy101]

5 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

The key difference between covid and flu for me is the seasonal aspect. Flu is strongly seasonal so a shot that provides a few months protection is helpful. Covid is developing a bit of a rhythm but we’re still getting huge waves in summer and autumn which makes it hard to think the three months the shots give is going to help much. And then the Israeli data shows limited value with the fourth shot as well, so we really need the updated versions soon.

Yes I know covid has many differences from flu. My point was we need a once a year vaccines for it similar to how we have yearly flu vaccines. 

[catz]

16 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Yes. I understand that. And you understand that. And maybe 5 other people on the plant seem to understand that. But usually after the initial series it’s several years (5 or 10) before a booster is recommended.

We have no idea if a booster will be what’s needed once a year of a whole new series plus boosters every year.  TPTB have zero idea at this point.  I’m saying for my household, I don’t think we will consider another single shot until fall ‘22 or even ‘23 at this point with the information we currently have.  Obviously we could be persuaded possibly with new info. But current info isn’t convincing us it’s worth it yet. 

That's right, we have no idea.  But I havne't seen any reputable sources talking in this direction at all.  Like priming doses every year doesn't make sense given what we know about the immune system,memory cells, etc. 

That said the elderly, infirm and immunocompromised may well have different recommendations and options than the general public and other options may continue to be developed for them too.  Like we have a stronger flu shot for older people and pneumonia and shingles are recommended at certain ages as well.  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Murphy101 said:

Yes I know covid has many differences from flu. My point was we need a once a year vaccines for it similar to how we have yearly flu vaccines. 

Yes, and I know there is a real hope for a “FluCoVax” to be available; I think it was aimed for this fall. I could get behind such a thing because I do get my flu shot annually and that would be great to get a combo in the fall and consider it done. 

[Ausmumof3]

3 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Yes I know covid has many differences from flu. My point was we need a once a year vaccines for it similar to how we have yearly flu vaccines. 

Yeah I know. But I don’t think once a year will work with the current vaccines and mutation rate. We really need better vaccines.

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, kokotg said:

I'm 47, so no 4th shot for me yet, but I'd likely be conflicted if I could get one. My husband's on an immunosuppressant and is a high school teacher (no masks required since Feb), so he got his 4th shot as soon as he was eligible. But at this point I might decide to wait for fall even if I were eligible, particularly because summer is when school and kid activities wind down and we're better able to limit exposure. I really want a better, more targeted vaccine in the fall (and I don't know, but I suspect, that if we'd been able to do more targeted boosters last fall/winter, we wouldn't be talking about 4th shots for anyone right now). 

If he's immunosuppressed he's probably eligible--or soon will be--for a fifth shot.

The recommendations for immunocompromised people are a three dose initial series followed by a booster at least three months after the third initial dose. Four months after the first booster they're eligible for a second booster.

CDC info

I had the three dose initial series and then my first booster in January. In a couple of days days I'll be eligible for a second booster dose (which would be my fifth vaccine dose). But I haven't yet made up my mind when I'll get that. I prefer to wait until fall, but I'm watching the stats.

[kokotg]

1 minute ago, Pawz4me said:

If he's immunosuppressed he's probably eligible--or soon will be--for a fifth shot.

The recommendations for immunocompromised people are a three dose initial series followed by a booster at least three months after the third initial dose. Four months after the first booster they're eligible for a second booster.

CDC info

I had the three dose initial series and then my first booster in January. In a couple of days days I'll be eligible for a second booster dose (which would be my fifth vaccine dose). But I haven't yet made up my mind when I'll get that. I prefer to wait until fall, but I'm watching the stats.

Thanks--I was just thinking I should check and see what the newest guidelines are. He's finished with school next week, though, so it's likely he'll wait until August so he has it as close to the school year as possible. And then at that point we'll see what the news is about new fall vaccines...

[vonfirmath]

41 minutes ago, Quill said:

Yes, and I know there is a real hope for a “FluCoVax” to be available; I think it was aimed for this fall. I could get behind such a thing because I do get my flu shot annually and that would be great to get a combo in the fall and consider it done. 

I would like this. I ended up with my booster Covid and no flu -- had intended to get both at once but they didn't have the flu and I didn't want to make another appointment. OTOH turns out flu was not well paired to the strains circulating anyway. I'm not eager to get another booster but if it is paired with flu and I can do it all at once I will.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

56 minutes ago, kokotg said:

I would also just like to say that I am so flummoxed that anti-vax people can look at data about how much more likely to die of covid the unvaccinated are and feel "vindicated." Like I think the latest data is that the unvaccinated are 5x as likely to die with the new variants as people with 2 doses, with a much starker difference vs. people who are boosted. While I have already made my desire for a magic, perfect vaccine known, that doesn't sound the least bit vindicating to me. I will stubbornly cling to my big pharma-fueled conviction that being less likely to die is way better than being more likely to die.

The gleeful “vindication “ that I have seen is that people with the vaccine also die so that makes it ok to be unvaccinated. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I feel like at this point the shots (whether boosters or part of a series) only benefit the individual that gets it. It no longer really benefits the greater society since there are too many holes in the vaccine “safety net”. So I will get shots when my doctor and I feel like it’s right for me but I no longer care if others get one or not. I am going to treat you as a potential disease vector anyway. (Which doesn’t mean without kindness etc). 

[mathnerd]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yeah I know. But I don’t think once a year will work with the current vaccines and mutation rate. We really need better vaccines.

Yes. This is still a novel virus though to us it seems to have been around a long time. It is going to mutate frequently for a while before we can get it under control with a single annual flu+Covid combo vaccine. This means that we should anticipate boosters or other vaccines as the recommendation for mitigation for some more time.

[Ting Tang]

I still hope for a miracle fairy tale ending to Covid.  I am also nervous because tomorrow kicks off dance recital weekend. I have to turn my 7 year old over to the “care” of others for multiple hours three days in a row. I can’t even dress her in her costume, which means she is going to have someone else breathing on her I assume. All for maybe 2 minutes on a stage each day. Gee, why are cases rising? At least when we do everything else, I have some control. I really regret this decision, but at the time, they were following precautions. I just have a bad feeling.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Ting Tang

[Laura Corin]

7 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I feel like at this point the shots (whether boosters or part of a series) only benefit the individual that gets it. It no longer really benefits the greater society since there are too many holes in the vaccine “safety net”. So I will get shots when my doctor and I feel like it’s right for me but I no longer care if others get one or not. I am going to treat you as a potential disease vector anyway. (Which doesn’t mean without kindness etc). 

I agree except that there is a strong societal effect of more people getting very ill, including hospital overcrowding,  health care professional burnout, monetary cost to government healthcare programmes,  staff shortages leading to wage inflation which leads to higher prices in the shops ...

[Jean in Newcastle]

4 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

I agree except that there is a strong societal effect of more people getting very ill, including hospital overcrowding,  health care professional burnout, monetary cost to government healthcare programmes,  staff shortages leading to wage inflation which leads to higher prices in the shops ...

Oh I know.  But they don't seem to care.  And seem to be purposefully ignoring these facts.  So personally, I have stopped trying to persuade people etc.  They are going to do what they are going to do.  And I'm going to protect myself the best I can. 

[madteaparty]

On 5/18/2022 at 5:31 PM, Quill said:

Not to derail my own thread, but here’s something I have been thinking about. Despite having been 100% pro-vax all the way (I was even pro-mandate) and despite having been fully vaxed and boosted…I feel like I got punked. Yeah, yeah; I know; reduced risk of hospitalizations/death, and yes, I’m grateful for that, and yes, I did directly witness vax refusers who died or were extremely I’ll with Covid. So - I’m grateful that is unlikely for me. But still. The vaccine has not lived up to its promise and I feel quite jaded about that. This is one instance where I feel like the “side” who was all pro-vax has whitewashed this disappointing reality. In March of ‘21, I was one of those people who thought I was taking (three) for the team, so we could put Covid behind us. But that didn’t happen and it looks like it never is going to happen. It looks like we’re basically all going to get Covid sooner or later and the best we can hope for is that either by a) luck or b) immunology, we are not one of the dead ones. 
 

I do still wear a mask in crowded public settings but I do have some sympathy now for the people who aren’t scrambling to put precautions back in place. I finally *do* understand how people can say, “Covid - whatever; I’m over it”. I feel similarly now. 
 

For all I know, I might have had it after New York too and just got a false negative on my home test. I did have a migraine for two days. But I do get headaches anyway, so who knows. 
 

>end soapbox

Obviously agree—I had Covid in January and so could delay having a booster which my work requires. I’m really disturbed by this practicing of medicine via capitalism in that we have to be injected with something to be able to work. I considered trying to get Covid again to avoid the booster but no luck.

i work on a trading floor and am face to face with people all day. We are tested couple times a week but again having had Covid one is exempted from testing for three months. I had it it January and imagine we will need to have it twice a year or so. 

[Paige]

14 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

Yes. I understand that. And you understand that. And maybe 5 other people on the plant seem to understand that. But usually after the initial series it’s several years (5 or 10) before a booster is recommended.

 

I think another thing people forget is that vaccines for measles, polio, chicken pox, etc, work so well in part because at this point community spread for these is so low. Maybe immunity wanes some after a few years, but it matters little because not much protection is needed when nobody has it. 

I would be very interested to see stats for breakthrough infections of measles and polio from the first few years that the vaccines were available. I feel we had a lot more breaktrhough chicken pox infections when the vaccine first started too. I know my niece and nephew got chicken pox after that vaccine but both had mild cases with few pox. Now, I rarely hear of a chicken pox breakthrough but it could just be coincidence or the age of my kids. 

 

[scholastica]

35 minutes ago, Paige said:

I think another thing people forget is that vaccines for measles, polio, chicken pox, etc, work so well in part because at this point community spread for these is so low. Maybe immunity wanes some after a few years, but it matters little because not much protection is needed when nobody has it. 

I would be very interested to see stats for breakthrough infections of measles and polio from the first few years that the vaccines were available. I feel we had a lot more breaktrhough chicken pox infections when the vaccine first started too. I know my niece and nephew got chicken pox after that vaccine but both had mild cases with few pox. Now, I rarely hear of a chicken pox breakthrough but it could just be coincidence or the age of my kids. 

 

Yes, if we had better vaccine coverage, things probably would look different. However, we did not have anywhere near enough vaccine or ability to get it out in most of the world, so it was always going to mutate.
 

Some viruses mutate more than others, as well. Influenza and coronaviruses both mutate a lot. Measles is a stable virus. Those are just a few examples.
 

Actually the chicken pox vaccine is only 82% effective at preventing infection, but 98% effective at preventing death. There’s a lot of variation and complexity to all of this and I kind of feel like the way vaccination has been presented, especially to parents has been detrimental. It’s usually couched as you’re doing this great thing to protect your child, when in fact the goal is to protect the population.

[dirty ethel rackham]

1 hour ago, scholastica said:

Yes, if we had better vaccine coverage, things probably would look different. However, we did not have anywhere near enough vaccine or ability to get it out in most of the world, so it was always going to mutate.
 

Some viruses mutate more than others, as well. Influenza and coronaviruses both mutate a lot. Measles is a stable virus. Those are just a few examples.
 

Actually the chicken pox vaccine is only 82% effective at preventing infection, but 98% effective at preventing death. There’s a lot of variation and complexity to all of this and I kind of feel like the way vaccination has been presented, especially to parents has been detrimental. It’s usually couched as you’re doing this great thing to protect your child, when in fact the goal is to protect the population.

This exactly.  Until we look at this as a global problem instead of a local problem, we will always be playing catch-up.  The WHO has been warning us of this but the wealthy countries have had a "me first" attitude.  Since we do not live in isolated communities, but an increasing global one, we need global solutions.  But those aren't politically palatable.  

That said, I am very thankful I was able to get the vaccine and be protected during some of the most dangerous surges.  I am thankful that dh was able to get vaccinated due to his health history.  And my children in college settings have been able to have a more normal existence due to the vaccine requirements (and positive response to mitigation efforts.)  But that has come at a cost.  

Here I am attending my daughter's college graduation activities in a state that has been mask resistant, vax-resistant from the start.  Her university has been very pro-mask and pro-vaccination, but I can't say that all the families have been that way.  Dd, dh, and I have all had covid recently despite being vaxxed and boosted (dd in February and dh and I last month.)  But ds has not had it so I am more concerned about him.  I did bring kn95 masks and offered them to him.  But we haven't been wearing them (few people are) and I feel unsettled about it, despite knowing that 3 of us are pretty well-protected at this point.

[KSera]

2 hours ago, scholastica said:

Actually the chicken pox vaccine is only 82% effective at preventing infection, but 98% effective at preventing death.

And yet we have high enough population coverage that chickenpox outbreaks now tend to be only isolated things that pop up here and there. When my current adult kids were little we didn’t do the chickenpox vaccine because we figured we would do it if they didn’t get chickenpox while they were young, which they didn’t so they were vaccinated. With my younger kids I’ve just done it when they were younger because I just almost never hear of anyone around here having chickenpox. Plus, my concerns with the olders having the vaccine rather than the illness have been addressed (The vaccine still didn’t have any long term data on how long it lasted and I was concerned about them being protected during childhood and then susceptible in adulthood when it’s more dangerous-we have a family history where that happened to my uncle. They added the second shot eventually though, and that has addresses that issue it seems.) In any case, my point being that even if the 82% effective at preventing illness number is accurate, that’s been plenty to keep even a very contagious disease like chickenpox from being common, such that even people who are trying to catch it have difficulty.

[Catwoman]

9 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Oh I know.  But they don't seem to care.  And seem to be purposefully ignoring these facts.  So personally, I have stopped trying to persuade people etc.  They are going to do what they are going to do.  And I'm going to protect myself the best I can. 

That’s exactly what I’m doing now, too. 

[scholastica]

2 hours ago, KSera said:

And yet we have high enough population coverage that chickenpox outbreaks now tend to be only isolated things that pop up here and there. When my current adult kids were little we didn’t do the chickenpox vaccine because we figured we would do it if they didn’t get chickenpox while they were young, which they didn’t so they were vaccinated. With my younger kids I’ve just done it when they were younger because I just almost never hear of anyone around here having chickenpox. Plus, my concerns with the olders having the vaccine rather than the illness have been addressed (The vaccine still didn’t have any long term data on how long it lasted and I was concerned about them being protected during childhood and then susceptible in adulthood when it’s more dangerous-we have a family history where that happened to my uncle. They added the second shot eventually though, and that has addresses that issue it seems.) In any case, my point being that even if the 82% effective at preventing illness number is accurate, that’s been plenty to keep even a very contagious disease like chickenpox from being common, such that even people who are trying to catch it have difficulty.

Exactly. I wish we had done a better job over the years of framing vaccination as a population-based not individual-based solution. All of us who can get vaccinated against diseases should to protect those who can’t or for those who are more susceptible to bad outcomes. One of my kids had conditions that made certain vaccines contra-indicated for him. We had to trust everyone else to keep that disease away.

Edited May 20, 2022 by scholastica

[Amy in NH]

On 5/18/2022 at 8:47 PM, Catwoman said:

 ...known all along that the purpose of the vaccine was never to prevent everyone from catching Covid...

 there was never a promise that the vaccine would be 100% effective...

I never expected the vaccine to keep us from getting Covid, only that it would lessen the chance we'd get a fatal case.  So I wasn't disappointed or upset when my dd came up positive at the beginning of the week despite having been vaccinated and boosted - instead I was grateful that she didn't catch it until after we'd all had the vaccine because I was not fearing for her life.

I'm sorry for other people who feel they were misled? 

[Lady Florida.]

21 hours ago, kokotg said:

.I happen to have just picked up my kids' vaccine records, so I can see right now that my 9 year old had 4 separate DTap shots by the time he was 18 months old, and then another one when he was 5.  4 polio shots by the time he was 4. 

 

19 hours ago, mathnerd said:

Yes. This is still a novel virus though to us it seems to have been around a long time. It is going to mutate frequently for a while before we can get it under control with a single annual flu+Covid combo vaccine. This means that we should anticipate boosters or other vaccines as the recommendation for mitigation for some more time.

Yes to both of the above. Also when a vaccine is new we should probably expect to need boosters or for the vaccine to be tweaked over time. Chicken pox and DTP, Tdap, Dtap come to mind as vaccines that have been tweaked. The vaccines a baby or child gets today are different from the ones that even my baby got in the late 1990s early 2000s.

I recently came across my own immunization records while looking for some personal papers. I'm old. The polio vaccine came out the year I was born.  I knew I had the Sabin vaccine because I remember getting sugar cubes at school but I didn't realize I also had the Salk. My records show that I had 4 shots of the Salk over 4 years PLUS three doses of the Sabin over 2 years starting 8 years later. While polio certainly wasn't new then the vaccines were. I don't recall my parents saying people complained about so many vaccine doses being necessary.

 

21 minutes ago, Amy in NH said:

I never expected the vaccine to keep us from getting Covid, only that it would lessen the chance we'd get a fatal case.  So I wasn't disappointed or upset when my dd came up positive at the beginning of the week despite having been vaccinated and boosted - instead I was grateful that she didn't catch it until after we'd all had the vaccine because I was not fearing for her life.

I'm sorry for other people who feel they were misled? 

I feel the same. We all got Covid in early March despite being vaccinated and boosted. Dh and I had very mild cases like a mild head cold and ds was asymptomatic. I attribute our mild cases to our vaccination status We're sure we had Omicron due to symptoms plus the timing. Dss as well as my niece and her family all got Delta. While none of their cases were as mild as my family's they too were vaccinated. Had they not been it's very likely they'd at least have been hospitalized and might not have survived.

My doctor told me to wait until June to get my 2nd booster since having Covid likely gave me some extra protection. 

[Arcadia]

I had friends who were the first batch of non-healthcare workers to be vaccinated because they are anti-mask. They aren’t getting boosters, though their kids would because of public school and state university requirements. If schools and universities did not have the requirements for booster, their kids have would skip the booster.