Am I selfish and ungrateful?

[Drama Llama]

DH brought me flowers and took us out for church and then brunch on Mother’s Day.  It was a lovely place with outdoor seating and delicious food.  We also went to the cemetery.

DH clearly tried hard to plan the perfect day, but I really struggled.  Mother’s Day is tied up with all kinds of trauma and loss for me, and my marriage is a huge source of stress right now.  Being surrounded by what I imagined to be happy families with no missing kids was not what I needed.

I spent half of mass in the bathroom crying, and then took rescue meds that made me spacey and disconnected at brunch.  I then lost it again at DS’s grave.  (Note:  I didn’t ask to go, but DS is buried in a family plot, and DH wanted to visit his mother and grandmother).

After he left, DH apparently called his sister who sent me a text telling me how selfish and ungrateful I am.   Am I?  If so, or even if not, how do I control my reactions?   

 

[JustEm]

7 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

DH brought me flowers and took us out for church and then brunch on Mother’s Day.  It was a lovely place with outdoor seating and delicious food.  We also went to the cemetery.

DH clearly tried hard to plan the perfect day, but I really struggled.  Mother’s Day is tied up with all kinds of trauma and loss for me, and my marriage is a huge source of stress right now.  Being surrounded by what I imagined to be happy families with no missing kids was not what I needed.

I spent half of mass in the bathroom crying, and then took rescue meds that made me spacey and disconnected at brunch.  I then lost it again at DS’s grave.  (Note:  I didn’t ask to go, but DS is buried in a family plot, and DH wanted to visit his mother and grandmother).

After he left, DH apparently called his sister who sent me a text telling me how selfish and ungrateful I am.   Am I?  If so, or even if not, how do I control my reactions?   

 

No you aren't. You react by telling your sil that you will not discuss your marriage issues with her and that texts like that are not appropriate.

Then you tell your husband that if he has any hope of fixing his marriage he needs to stop confiding in his sister. Because while I find it healthy to have someone to vent to during difficult life situations, doing so with someone who will use the info as ammunition towards another person is not healthy.

Edited May 9, 2022 by hjffkj

[JustEm]

Hugs! I'm sorry that you had to deal with her nastiness on top of struggling through a tough day.

[Tap]

Nope. Not selfish or ungrateful. 
 

You had several overwhelming events colliding all on one day. The fact that you were able to attend all of those events, which are each embedded with huge emotions shows that you were trying so hard to be there for everyone else. You were trying to be a good mama for the family. You were graciously playing along with great intentions. But all of those events coupled with trying so hard to maintain your composure, is so much to deal with separately, let alone all piled into one day. ((((((Hugs))))))

[sassenach]

You should really just block her

[mommyoffive]

Wow!!!  Your dh's sister is so horribly out of line.  I can't believe she did that.  I am so sorry.  You are not selfish at all.  It is nice that he tried, but really he should have asked you what you wanted to do and then listened to that.  

[JustEm]

If you want to talk about the day with your husband you could say something about appreciating and acknowledging the effort he made while also helping him understand that Mother's Day is tough for you and give him all the reasons why.  He can either accept that appreciating the effort while also not enjoying the day is completely acceptable behavior or he can stew in unjustified resentment. You can't control his ability to empathize.

[JustEm]

3 minutes ago, sassenach said:

You should really just block her

This 100%. 

[Catwoman]

18 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

DH brought me flowers and took us out for church and then brunch on Mother’s Day.  It was a lovely place with outdoor seating and delicious food.  We also went to the cemetery.

DH clearly tried hard to plan the perfect day, but I really struggled.  Mother’s Day is tied up with all kinds of trauma and loss for me, and my marriage is a huge source of stress right now.  Being surrounded by what I imagined to be happy families with no missing kids was not what I needed.

I spent half of mass in the bathroom crying, and then took rescue meds that made me spacey and disconnected at brunch.  I then lost it again at DS’s grave.  (Note:  I didn’t ask to go, but DS is buried in a family plot, and DH wanted to visit his mother and grandmother).

After he left, DH apparently called his sister who sent me a text telling me how selfish and ungrateful I am.   Am I?  If so, or even if not, how do I control my reactions?   

 

Your SIL was way out of line, as usual, and I'm sorry the day went so terribly for you! 

Did you thank your dh for trying his best to make your Mother's Day very special? Maybe he feels like he went through a lot of effort and planning to give you the perfect day, and then not only did you not enjoy it, maybe he also feels that you didn't appreciate the fact that he tried? He's going through so many mental health struggles right now, that maybe he felt he had to confide in someone, and his sister was available, so her told her, and then she got so upset on his behalf because she hated to see her brother hurting, that she lashed out at you. Again, she was wrong to have done that, but she may have seen how hard he tried to plan a great day, only to see him be disappointed that things didn't work out as he had hoped.

I'm just trying to make sense of this. Please don't think I'm blaming you for anything!

[catz]

I agree if SIL is contacting you about this kind of thing, you should block her.  She is gaslighting you.  And I'm starting to wonder if DH knows she will follow up so that's why he's talking to her.  

Did DH ASK what you wanted to do for mother's day or did he just plan and execute?  Did he ASK if you and the kids were comfortable visiting the grave?  That should always be a choice.  Are you comfortable enough to let him know when your anxiety and emotions are ramping up in the moment and you need to step away?  

The lack of empathy here is disturbing.  Especially when you have wrung yourself dry being empathetic.  One day of trying to be kind (which IMO really wasn't if he was just leading you around and not checking in with you about what you wanted to do next, if you were doing ok, etc) after the last couple years you endured was not a reasonable expectation.  Other people's emotions and lives don't stop because your DH is struggling with mental illness.  And your DH is further damaging your relationship and eroding trust by confiding in someone who obviously wants to cause problems.  

[Katy]

No. You are stressed out and traumatized and your DH selfishly asked you to put on a performance for him on Mother’s Day instead of doing something for you. There is zero chance he didn’t understand the cemetery would be traumatic and there is no reason he needed you to come with him. 

His own problems are no excuse for causing you more trauma and frankly I’d question whether he did this on purpose. And I’d be issuing ultimatums about her too. Frankly I’d tell her to F off and never speak to you again. She is a despicable excuse for a human. How dare she? It’s 

[Grace Hopper]

Just another reason I dislike Mother’s Day - social expectations have people going all out to plan and do things that a lot of mothers don’t even want to do. Sigh. 
 

Baseball you were not in the wrong. You didn’t refuse to go. And you have no idea exactly what your husband even said to his sister - he could have blown everything out of proportion for all you know. I think he’s the selfish one for making you go to the cemetery. I’m so sorry that happened. Visiting a burial site is an intensely personal action under the best of circumstances. 
 

I agree 100% that you should follow the advice of @hjffkj above regarding how to respond to both your sil and husband. 

[BlsdMama]

I’m not sure I could have handled it well… 

 

She doesn’t get it. I’m glad she doesn’t get it. It means she hasn’t buried her child. 
 

Use the word AND. 
 

You are grateful AND it was hard. You noticed how hard DH worked AND it was a painful day. 
 

People like to sort things into categories. It makes them feel better when they can slap a label on something and sort it. But like and people are complex. She’s creating a false dichotomy - either you are happy/grateful OR you are sad/selfish. She’s wrong. You are grateful AND you are heartbroken. 

[Katy]

I don’t think there was any possible reason for him to have done that except he wanted to destabilize you. Idk if it was conscious or subconscious, but there is no other explanation. He feels out of control and is attacking you for being in control. It’s abusive and not okay. 

[regentrude]

You are not selfish and ungrateful.
Anybody with half a brain would expect Mother's Day to be very difficult and triggering for a mother who had lost a child.
You can be grateful for DH, but whatever nice things he does don't make the pain of your son's death go away.

[BlsdMama]

2 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

And you have no idea exactly what your husband even said to his sister - he could have blown everything out of proportion for all you know. I think he’s the selfish one for making you go to the cemetery.

Likewise he could have underplayed it and she got angry and defensive on his behalf. Sometimes we take one persons actions and manifest the feeling behind it onto another. We can’t know another’s mind being their own actions and words so it would be wrong to hold him accountable for SILs wretched behavior. And others find it comforting to be at a cemetery. My sister visited her boys gravesite on important dates like Mother’s Day.  I tend to avoid the cemetery. He very well may have sincerely and unwittingly had that planned as part of the “perfect” day. 

[Grace Hopper]

Just now, BlsdMama said:

Likewise he could have underplayed it and she got angry and defensive on his behalf. Sometimes we take one persons actions and manifest the feeling behind it onto another. We can’t know another’s mind being their own actions and words so it would be wrong to hold him accountable for SILs wretched behavior. And others find it comforting to be at a cemetery. My sister visited her boys gravesite on important dates like Mother’s Day.  I tend to avoid the cemetery. He very well may have sincerely and unwittingly had that planned as part of the “perfect” day. 

Points being - SIL is attacking B&H yet wasn’t present for the day’s events, thus has no right to make any comment to B&H; and, it’s not appropriate to make decisions about graveside visits on behalf of others. 

[regentrude]

39 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

After he left, DH apparently called his sister who sent me a text telling me how selfish and ungrateful I am.   Am I?  If so, or even if not, how do I control my reactions?  

I assume you didn't throw a tantrum or yell at your DH. that might be things you would need to "control".

Breaking down sobbing in church or in the cemetery are normal parts of grieving and don't need to be "controlled". It is the responsibility of others to give you space to grieve how you need to; it is not your responsibility to hide your grief and pretend you're over it when put into a triggering situation

[Ellie]

44 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

After he left, DH apparently called his sister who sent me a text telling me how selfish and ungrateful I am.  

He did WHAT?? She did WHAT? Oh, good grief: the only people out of line here are your dh and your sil.

[Kassia]

9 minutes ago, regentrude said:

You are not selfish and ungrateful.
Anybody with half a brain would expect Mother's Day to be very difficult and triggering for a mother who had lost a child.
You can be grateful for DH, but whatever nice things he does don't make the pain of your son's death go away.

Yes to all of this.  

I'm sorry that your SIL was so awful to you and made a difficult day even worse.  Hugs.

[Carrie12345]

Your SIL is trying to hurt you on purpose. Get rid of her.

I’m so sorry she made such a difficult day harder.

[Murphy101]

43 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

DH brought me flowers and took us out for church and then brunch on Mother’s Day.  It was a lovely place with outdoor seating and delicious food.  We also went to the cemetery.

DH clearly tried hard to plan the perfect day, but I really struggled.  Mother’s Day is tied up with all kinds of trauma and loss for me, and my marriage is a huge source of stress right now.  Being surrounded by what I imagined to be happy families with no missing kids was not what I needed.

I spent half of mass in the bathroom crying, and then took rescue meds that made me spacey and disconnected at brunch.  I then lost it again at DS’s grave.  (Note:  I didn’t ask to go, but DS is buried in a family plot, and DH wanted to visit his mother and grandmother).

After he left, DH apparently called his sister who sent me a text telling me how selfish and ungrateful I am.   Am I?  If so, or even if not, how do I control my reactions?   

 

Did you argue with your husband or tell him something hurtful? If not - your sil is a b word.  Why do you have to control your emotions?  I think if you didn’t want to go to Church then you should have said something to him about why instead of going. Same for dinner and the funeral. If it didn’t really hit you until you were there - then I think it’s okay to just say that too.

Putting sincere effort into planning includes communication.  He should have asked how you would feel about those things.  He could have gone to church and the cemetery without you. He could have decided to just give you flowers on Sunday and celebrate mom day today or next weekend to avoid some of these issues. I know many moms who don’t celebrate Mother’s Day on Mother’s Day for many reasons. 

[Terabith]

Your SIL is beyond the pale.  There is absolutely no excuse for what she said, and she is clearly completely devoid of empathy.  I would at least be telling everyone else in the family about the text.  

Anyone over the age of about 8 should know and recognize that of course Mother's Day was going to be hell on you.  It sounds like your dh tried really hard, but also has a very transactional view of the world and thinks "if I do this, then Baseball will be happy and maybe give me what I want (end to separation, approval, fill in the blank)."  It's deeply concerning to me that there doesn't appear to have been any recognition that this was going to be hard for you and that he appeared shocked and puzzled by how hard you found the day.  I assume that it's a result of the mental illness, but even with a mood disorder, I would think empathy and cognitive faculties would still be intact?  

I think clearer communication would have helped in advance, but even without communication, he should have been able to recognize why you were struggling.  

And I am concerned that you don't feel comfortable saying to your dh that you miss your son and that the day is just brutal because of that.  He should be the person who is best able to share your grief.  

[HS Mom in NC]

I think the foundation of this problem is people believing the lie, "It's the thought that counts." That statement is too vague, and a shocking number of adults are unaware of the nuances and complexity involved depending on the situation. Please, stop telling children this, parents.  You're setting them up for failure if that's all they're hearing from you. Then there are passive aggressive types who weaponize and excuse their bad gift giving/celebration planning behaviors, so that crap has to be confronted directly.

Sure, a little kid can't think much beyond self and is prone to planning gifts/celebrations for someone else through the lens of self. That's developmentally appropriate, so we let it slide, but as they reach higher stages of development, we expect and teach gift givers/celebration planners to think from the angle of the recipient, and to get feedback about plans from the recipient's point of view in complex situations like yours.  Yes, I'm aware it sounds like I'm talking to a 6 year old saying this obvious thing out loud, be here we are, with clueless husband and his sister thinking like littles.

1 Corinthians 13:11

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

So it's perfectly fine for him to go to the family cemetery to visit the graves of his mother and grandmother if that's what works for him, but he should've said that was the plan beforehand and asked if that's something you'd like to join him for or not.  It's fine for him to want to attend a Mother's Day service at church and consider it as a possibility for you too, but again, any person with ANY amount of sense or sensitivity AT ALL would've asked you if you wanted to join them or not as it might be too uncomfortable for you. 

So what to do from here on out? If it were me, I think I'd lay out of him how cruel his behavior was, and I'd tell him I will never do anything with him ever again that he hasn't explicitly laid out in detail and cleared with me beforehand.  No surprises will be tolerated from him because of his poor judgment.

Also, it's perfectly appropriate for you to say, as you pulled up to the church you won't go in because it's too painful and that you're shocked he wouldn't have known that.  Same with the cemetery.  I'm not sure why you struggle so much with saying the quiet parts out loud, but I honestly think some therapy is in order for you.  You don't have to keep sitting quietly by being emotionally abused like this.

If someone had sent me a text like your SIL did, I would've responded with,

"If one of your children is dead (GOD, FORBID!!)  and Mother's Day rolls around, you can celebrate it any way you want. I'll want your thoughts on it then, but certainly not when all your children are living.

Also, discussing my marriage with my husband and being confrontational with me about it is wildly inappropriate and a gross violation of healthy boundaries. You should get appropriate counseling with a licensed therapist to address this serious issue. "

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Baseballandhockey said:

DH brought me flowers and took us out for church and then brunch on Mother’s Day.  It was a lovely place with outdoor seating and delicious food.  We also went to the cemetery.

DH clearly tried hard to plan the perfect day, but I really struggled.  Mother’s Day is tied up with all kinds of trauma and loss for me, and my marriage is a huge source of stress right now.  Being surrounded by what I imagined to be happy families with no missing kids was not what I needed.

I spent half of mass in the bathroom crying, and then took rescue meds that made me spacey and disconnected at brunch.  I then lost it again at DS’s grave.  (Note:  I didn’t ask to go, but DS is buried in a family plot, and DH wanted to visit his mother and grandmother).

After he left, DH apparently called his sister who sent me a text telling me how selfish and ungrateful I am.   Am I?  If so, or even if not, how do I control my reactions?   

 

I'm very sorry.   I'm glad you realize your dh was trying - it sounds like better communication would have helped as you're both in different places right now.  For some - visiting a grave can be helpful, for other's it's just a reminder of what they've lost.  It's not a "right or wrong" thing, it's just an indicator of where someone is in their grief.   Did your dh spend time at your son's grave?  or just his mother's and grandmother's?  Did he give you the option to not go?

were you able to acknowledge to your dh that you know he tried, and you appreciate the effort he expended?  - but it's still hard for you right now?

I think it was unfortunate for him to vent to his sister.  It didn't help your relationship any.

Depending upon if your sil is normally a jerk or not - I might "thank her" (sarcasm) for her support, and point out that losing a child changes mother's day forever.  And your (sincere) wish that she never experiences the loss of a child.

eta: if she's normally a jerk - this would probably go over her head.

Edited May 9, 2022 by gardenmom5

[Ceilingfan]

For a different perspective, take it for what it's worth:

Even if you had been self-concerned and unappreciative ("selfish" and "ungrateful" but without the judgment), that would have been 100% totally normal.

You have a right to be self-concerned, and no one can force you to be appreciative of something you didn't appreciate. You don't owe your husband, or your SIL, fake appreciation for something that didn't work for you. You are also a person, and for that matter a person who from my perspective probably under-prioritizes herself in lieu of taking care of others, and being self-concerned ON MOTHER'S DAY (but really any day) is absolutely 100% completely and totally fine.

 

I find this helpful sometimes in dealing with people who are mentally ill but to whom I feel an overwhelming personal obligation that can cloud my judgment: I reverse the roles, and ask myself what I would have done.

So in this case I'd say to myself, Ceilingfan, if you'd taken your husband out for father's day during the reconciliation period after a very very difficult time in which your instability made things hard for him, and he had a breakdown in the bathroom, took a rescue med, and then was spacy and disconnected afterward, how would you react? And I answer myself - I'd regret that it didn't work the way I'd hoped, and I'd say to myself "bummer," and then that would be it. If I called to vent to someone about my disappointment, it would absolutely be someone I knew wouldn't call up my husband and make him feel bad for having felt bad.

Then I'd say to myself, Ceilingfan, if my sister called me up and said she'd done something nice for her husband (my brother-in-law) on father's day but he had a breakdown and cried and then was spacy afterward and seemed not to appreciate her efforts, what would I do? Well, ceilingfan, I say to myself, I'd tell her that sucks and I'm sorry her plans didn't work out as she'd hoped, and that this must be a hard time for her husband. Maybe if she were really upset I'd send her some cookies via doordash. What I would not do, ever, is then TEXT THE BROTHER-IN-LAW and chew him out for having been sad on father's day after losing his child and having had a really difficult period in which my sister's mental illness made him responsible for the kids for an extended period and had led to her being unkind to him over several months. Like, 0% of the time would I do that.

 

So then I know (and forgive me if that's confusing because the genders are all reversed) that these other people's reactions are way out of line, because they're not something I would ever in the entire universe do. I know it's not my fault, and that I don't have to take their actions or words as gospel truth, because I can see that they're not reasonable.

[bolt.]

It is not "selfish" or "ungrateful" to be in grief during mother's day.

A: Grief is about loss, and loss is about loving other people. It's impossible for grief to be selfish.

B: You were not given a gift, and you don't need to be grateful. The experiences that were provided were well-intentioned, but it is not reasonable to be grateful for an experience that, in reality, turned out to be (maybe) mixed or (maybe) entirely unpleasant. Your reactions were the reality of the event for you. When he provides something pleasant, you will be able to be grateful. Until then: reality is reality. It was 'a swing and a miss' -- not your fault and no big deal. (You didn't lay into him or call him a jerk for trying or anything like that!)

At this point I think you should begin simply assuming that if something comes out of that SIL's mouth -- there's a 95% chance that it's untrue. She reliably provides false information and bad data. Start 'considering the source' and quit giving things she says the normal amount of due consideration. If *she* says it, 'it' is probably false (unless proven otherwise). Get her voice out of your head. You don't need her and she isn't doing you any favours.

[freesia]

That is horrible. I really think you do need to block her. I know you probably don’t think you should, but really think about it. She seems to be actively sabatoging every aspect of your life. You have to see her once a week. You do not have to receive her texts. 

[Ceilingfan]

What I mean is, "selfish" implies a situation in which you don't have a right to be self-concerned. This would be like if your kids were wearing threadbare clothes 2 sizes too small but you went to Dolce&Gabbana for a new bag. In this case, and not just because it's Mother's Day, you have a right to be self-concerned. Your grief (about your son, and also to be honest about the loss of  the relationship you had with your husband, and the changes in parenting responsibilities that has caused) belongs to you, and you have a right to it. It might be "selfish" for you to insist that the only way your husband can ever see the kids is if he goes with you to your son's grave, even though you know that would cause him harm. Your reaction to what happened here is merely self-concern, and to be honest, imo, probably still not enough of it. You could use a little more self-concern.

"Ungrateful" implies that you have been given something truly valuable TO YOU and not valued it appropriately, in a fairly extreme way. Ungrateful would be like if a doctor came along and fixed your husband up 100% so he could be a decent parent to your kids again, and take some of the load off of you (even if you don't stay married), and when you saw the doctor later you were like hey dude, you didn't also buy me a car, you're a chump. That would be ungrateful.

Your reaction to what happened here was that you did not fully appreciate something that was not truly valuable to you. He made an effort - great! It didn't work the way he'd hoped - bummer! You don't owe him any fake appreciation for doing a thing that didn't work for you, on one day, for I presume a few hours, after months and months of severe, persistent unkindness and disruption, while you shoulder the entire burden of parenting your kids (and managing the situation so that he can work toward reestabilishing a relationship with them).

 

I'm sorry to sound so severe about this, but I really think your SIL is probably projecting (possibly from your husband's projection); he owes you a great debt of appreciation which he probably cannot possibly express or even process or feel right now, and I'm sure that somewhere inside your SIL recognizes this. Although it is not his fault (so I hate to use the pejorative terms because blaming someone for mental illness is uncool), he's been (functionally, not intentionally) both selfish and ungrateful for quite some time. This isn't his fault - but it's still true, and instead of acknowledging that great debt, he (through SIL, and probably co-created by SIL) projects those feelings onto you.

[Dmmetler]

No, you are not. And I think you know that. One of the worst parts about losing a child is how people expect life to just go on. In many respects, I've gotten more understanding that Mother's Day would be hard after losing my mom than I got after losing my son. 

 

And yeah, block SIL. She is seriously not worth your emotional energy right now. 

[Drama Llama]

11 minutes ago, freesia said:

That is horrible. I really think you do need to block her. I know you probably don’t think you should, but really think about it. She seems to be actively sabatoging every aspect of your life. You have to see her once a week. You do not have to receive her texts. 

The thing is, I need to know what she’s telling him, and what he’s telling her.  The fact she texted me is super annoying.  The fact that she told him I was being selfish and ungrateful is something I need to respond to, not to her but with him.

 

[Ceilingfan]

Can I be curious with you briefly about what life would look like if you didn't know what SIL is telling him, or what he is telling her? I believe you when you say being aware of their communication is important, but I also wonder what it would look like to give it up.

[Katy]

6 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

The thing is, I need to know what she’s telling him, and what he’s telling her.  The fact she texted me is super annoying.  The fact that she told him I was being selfish and ungrateful is something I need to respond to, not to her but with him.

 

No, you don’t. What they say to each other is none of your business until one of them uses it to manipulate you.  And that’s what she’s doing. 

[Drama Llama]

29 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

I'm very sorry.   I'm glad you realize your dh was trying - it sounds like better communication would have helped as you're both in different places right now.  For some - visiting a grave can be helpful, for other's it's just a reminder of what they've lost.  It's not a "right or wrong" thing, it's just an indicator of where someone is in their grief.   Did your dh spend time at your son's grave?  or just his mother's and grandmother's?  Did he give you the option to not go?

 

Visiting the grave is helpful to me, when I go alone or with someone with whom I feel safe.  That doesn’t mean I don’t cry there, I just cry alone.

My youngest just assumed that we would go.  He told the waiter all about how we were going to take some food to share with his brother.  I wouldn’t let the kids go without me, so once I knew he was going I went.  There is too much tension between them and their dad for me to want that.

DS is buried next to his great grandmother.  He didn’t want to be alone and felt like he knew her, so we put him there.  

So the cemetery wasn’t DH’s fault.  Getting upset that I cried there was unfair though.

[Drama Llama]

10 hours ago, Ceilingfan said:

Can I be curious with you briefly about what life would look like if you didn't know what SIL is telling him, or what he is telling her? I believe you when you say being aware of their communication is important, but I also wonder what it would look like to give it up.

I worry that if her lies aren't countered they’ll get woven into his delusions and get used against me in a custody fight.  

I am sure she said more to him.  

Edited May 10, 2022 by Baseballandhockey

[JustEm]

8 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

The thing is, I need to know what she’s telling him, and what he’s telling her.  The fact she texted me is super annoying.  The fact that she told him I was being selfish and ungrateful is something I need to respond to, not to her but with him.

 

I don't think that is true. What you need to do is set a boundary with your husband and make it clear that your marriage will not be mended by him taking anything his sister says about the marriage and you to heart. Set a boundary that any talk of the marriage that mentions her or her opinions are an immediate end of discussion and things can continue at a later date if he's able to keep her out of your family life discussions.

if he isn't capable of doing that then you figure out how to proceed with your life until you are either ready to divorce or he is ready to respect your boundary in regards to her.

[JustEm]

Just saw your comment about her words used against you in a custody battle. I imagine that would only be a major issue if the rest of his family wouldn't back you up in the custody battle, which from my understanding of the relationships they would

 

 

 

 

[Grace Hopper]

Do you still have any joint counseling sessions with dh? Because that seems a good format to bring it up and get it documented that sil has an influence on his thoughts/actions. 

[theelfqueen]

Well obviously you are a selfish, ungrateful b%$$....

Or maybe your sister in law continues to be a manipulative person who doesnt understand grief and what you're going to through. 

Just NO.

Sweetie. Take a deep breath and write off all of this nonsense. You get to feel what you feel - especially when it comes to your loss and your marriage. 

[freesia]

2 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I worry that if her lies are countered they’ll get woven into his delusions and get used against me in a custody fight.  

I am sure she said more to him.  

I do get what you are saying, but I also wonder if it's as necessary as you think it is.  There are likely to be things you don't know where they come from--that's the nature of delusions.  Could you perhaps just keep a journal of all your interactions with him?  Then you have some documentation of what really happened.  He has a dx of delusions so I don't think her lies woven in will make much of a difference--particularly lies about events where she wasn't there.  Destablizing you, however, could have an effect.  There was a time in our life where the narrative that one of my loved ones was being controlled by a toxic person.  I tried to hang on tight and grab back control.  My counselor helped me see that really all I could do was to just love this person and provide a healthy environment when we were together.  I couldn't control that the other person was telling my child that all their problems were caused by us.  I couldn't control what dc believed at all. And the stakes at that point were really really high as dc was in a mental health crisis and wouldn't let us or a counselor help--only toxic person could "help."  I was beside myself.  Loosening my grip, concentrating on my mental health (which included letting dh be the one to handle any interactions with toxic person), creating peace for my family was absolutely freeing--but really hard.

Please don't quote this, I may edit later.

[gardenmom5]

14 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Visiting the grave is helpful to me, when I go alone or with someone with whom I feel safe.  That doesn’t mean I don’t cry there, I just cry alone.

My youngest just assumed that we would go.  He told the waiter all about how we were going to take some food to share with his brother.  I wouldn’t let the kids go without me, so once I knew he was going I went.  There is too much tension between them and their dad for me to want that.

DS is buried next to his great grandmother.  He didn’t want to be alone and felt like he knew her, so we put him there.  

So the cemetery wasn’t DH’s fault.  Getting upset that I cried there was unfair though.

Hugs.  It sounds like it was really important to your son, and that was healthy for him.
I'm sorry you didn't feel safe there with your husband.
I'm sorry your dh was so clueless.  I hope your able to talk and work through the communication with your husband and rebuild your relationship - but that may also mean he needs to stop talking to his sister who sounds as if she's actively sabotaging the relationship.

[Farrar]

Your SIL is a terrible sounding board for your DH. He needs a safe place to process his emotions. Which, it's unfair of him to feel that way if that's even how he felt, but whatever. He's also carrying a boatload of trauma and isn't going to have healthy reactions or takes all the time. But her support is not support for him. She's just twisting everything back on you. Again.

Everyone is right. You have a right to feel the way you felt and you handled it as well as could be expected all things considered.

[Ceilingfan]

removed

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Ceilingfan

[catz]

6 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Visiting the grave is helpful to me, when I go alone or with someone with whom I feel safe.  That doesn’t mean I don’t cry there, I just cry alone.

My youngest just assumed that we would go.  He told the waiter all about how we were going to take some food to share with his brother.  I wouldn’t let the kids go without me, so once I knew he was going I went.  There is too much tension between them and their dad for me to want that.

 

I also think it is ok for you to say you aren't up to it that day to your kids.  It is ok to say not now.  I know sometime when you're feeling anxious and ramping up with emotions it can be hard to know what feels like a good boundary.  But I do think you should be empowered to direct these interactions when he is involved.  

I would document everything you've gotten from SIL.  And then block her.  I just see little reason to keep tabs on a toxic person at the expense of your own mental health.  And continue to document your interactions with him and his struggles.  This seems like a good thing to bring up in therapy.  I'd let him know you're damaging his trust by confiding in someone who seems to have issue with you and is crossing boundaries and that you need to put up firmer boundaries in that regard.  The inability to communicate directly to each other is problematic for sure.  Like what does he expect?  A person can't just turn off their history and emotions because someone handed them flowers.  I find it pretty outrageous that you are expected to make all concessions in the name of his mental health but zero grace for you.  I'm sorry.  ❤️  

[Innisfree]

18 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Your SIL is a terrible sounding board for your DH. He needs a safe place to process his emotions. Which, it's unfair of him to feel that way if that's even how he felt, but whatever. He's also carrying a boatload of trauma and isn't going to have healthy reactions or takes all the time. But her support is not support for him. She's just twisting everything back on you. Again.

This. 
 

Is there someone else in your dh’s family, whom he trusts, who could make this point to him? Someone who could speak up and counter what she says with sanity, reality, and compassion?

[Ting Tang]

2 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

DH brought me flowers and took us out for church and then brunch on Mother’s Day.  It was a lovely place with outdoor seating and delicious food.  We also went to the cemetery.

DH clearly tried hard to plan the perfect day, but I really struggled.  Mother’s Day is tied up with all kinds of trauma and loss for me, and my marriage is a huge source of stress right now.  Being surrounded by what I imagined to be happy families with no missing kids was not what I needed.

I spent half of mass in the bathroom crying, and then took rescue meds that made me spacey and disconnected at brunch.  I then lost it again at DS’s grave.  (Note:  I didn’t ask to go, but DS is buried in a family plot, and DH wanted to visit his mother and grandmother).

After he left, DH apparently called his sister who sent me a text telling me how selfish and ungrateful I am.   Am I?  If so, or even if not, how do I control my reactions?   

 

I am sorry Mother's Day is such a difficult day for you.  If anyone should understand, it should be your husband (regardless of what terms you are on with a potential divorce).  I was thinking yesterday how difficult it must be for another person I know who lost a child.  But I know you are not dealing with the most sensible or stable person from a few of your posts. Mother's Day is a hard day for a lot of people for various reasons, and you are not alone.  Sometimes I really dislike the "Hallmark" holidays.  I agree with blocking SIL, sounds pretty wretched for a person not even to put together the day plus the loss of a child. I agree a family court judge will not care what she has to say.  A family court judge will also not care what his opinion was of your response.  If you told a family court judge what you wrote in this post, that judge would have sympathy and compassion for you.  

[Lecka]

He chooses who he talks to, it’s no coincidence he chooses to talk to someone who takes his side and acts in this way.  

[Drama Llama]

21 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

This. 
 

Is there someone else in your dh’s family, whom he trusts, who could make this point to him? Someone who could speak up and counter what she says with sanity, reality, and compassion?

Both of his other siblings would be much better choices.  His older saner sister was out of town, and probably had her cell phone off.   His brother went to church and brunch and the cemetery with us.  

[bolt.]

I get the general impression (from multiple posts) that you have some reoccurring anxiety about how various 'things' might play out if there is conflict over custody in your future.

I want to suggest that maybe your sensitivity to what might or might not actually be relevant to that outcome could be a little high. I get that it is a primary and reoccurring concern of yours. I can see why! And I don't think it's an illegitimate concern overall. But it is possible that the factors that you think might be in play actually aren't going to come up or be considered relevant.

Maybe it's becoming an unhealthy filter that you pass your experiences through. Constantly asking yourself, "What's the worst way anybody could tell the story of this event? How could I be cast into the role of a 'bad guy' here? Is there any believable way to describe this where I (or the kids) could be injured by the storytelling?" -- it doesn't sound like a healthy way to practice self-examination.

I can see the temptation. When my teenage daughter first started seeing a therapist, I ran all of my actions (especially conflict) through the filter of, "When she tells this story from her perspective to her therapist: am I going to come out looking like a monster?" -- Having those thoughts usually made me feel worse. And act worse. It wasn't good for me, and I had to make myself stop it. (Or at least do it less often.) Maybe you are having a similar problem?

[SKL]

My initial reactions:

1) Your feelings and reactions were not unreasonable given recent history.

2) I would probably respond to your SIL by saying something like "Mother's day is still very raw for me because of loss."

3) Then I would block SIL at least for some time.