How common is homosexuality?

[Teaching3bears]

Being gay or lesbian?  Bisexuality?  I am wondering what percentage of the population.   I guess that there might be a difference between people who have come out and people who have not and that this might vary by age, country, etc. 

I tried to Google but I saw such different numbers.  From less than 1% to 37%!
 

 

[MercyA]

This might be useful:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5508189/

[KSera]

I think that’s harder to answer than it was for awhile (and of course before that, it was extremely difficult). What makes it hard to answer is that the answer varies a lot by different age demographics. The overall percentage seems to have about doubled in the last ten years owing mostly to Gen Z from what I’ve seen (and the generation after them seems to be even more so perhaps). That’s with counting everything under the lgbtq+ umbrella, and the increasing trans identification from a decade ago has changed the numbers a lot. The most recent gen z statistic I’ve seen is 1 in 6. 

[Selkie]

Here's the latest Gallup poll that was in the news a couple days ago:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/389792/lgbt-identification-ticks-up.aspx

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The percentage of U.S. adults who self-identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender or something other than heterosexual has increased to a new high of 7.1%, which is double the percentage from 2012, when Gallup first measured it...

The increase in LGBT identification in recent years largely reflects the higher prevalence of such identities among the youngest U.S. adults compared with the older generations they are replacing in the U.S. adult population.

Roughly 21% of Generation Z Americans who have reached adulthood -- those born between 1997 and 2003 -- identify as LGBT. That is nearly double the proportion of millennials who do so, while the gap widens even further when compared with older generations...

[Laura Corin]

I think this is very culturally determined,  particularly bisexuality.  On my extremely liberal university course of around 30 people, around five were straight,  five were gay/lesbian and the rest were bi. I see similar patterns in my children's circle.

Please note that I am not saying that sexuality is a choice - instead I believe that innate sexuality can be suppressed or allowed space to breathe,  depending on culture. 

[MEmama]

2 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

I think this is very culturally determined,  particularly bisexuality.  On my extremely liberal university course of around 30 people, around five were straight,  five were gay/lesbian and the rest were bi. I see similar patterns in my children's circle.

Please note that I am not saying that sexuality is a choice - instead I believe that innate sexuality can be suppressed or allowed space to breathe,  depending on culture. 

This.

LGBTQ people have existed throughout history and across cultures to varying levels of “public acceptability”. Same sex relationships and non binary/trans folks were historically commonplace and even revered in many cultures and across the classes until colonialism attempted to stamp them out by force. 
 

Today in the US we are seeing a cultural awakening whereby people are feeling more free to explore their true nature and express themselves; there is now the language that allows people to break free from comphet (compulsory heterosexuality) and the culturally constructed binary —a language that didn’t much exist just a couple decades ago. It isn’t that more people are suddenly LGBTQ or that young folks are jumping on some bandwagon—it’s more that, as @Laura Corin said, there is currently space for such truths to be explored. Of course at the same time there is a political/religious faction that is threatened and lashing out, to be expected in every period of progress, and they pose a very real threat.

One important thing to keep in mind if attempting to analyze numbers alone is the enormous loss in the LGBTQ community during the AIDS crisis. The number of lives lost was staggering and greatly skews the data we have available on an entire generation. 

(As an aside, please note it is incorrect to use the word “homosexual” while referring to the entirety of the LGBTQ umbrella; it only refers to gay and lesbian folks (hence the homo part) which doesn’t seem to be your actual question.)

[Wheres Toto]

7 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

I think this is very culturally determined,  particularly bisexuality.  On my extremely liberal university course of around 30 people, around five were straight,  five were gay/lesbian and the rest were bi. I see similar patterns in my children's circle.

Please note that I am not saying that sexuality is a choice - instead I believe that innate sexuality can be suppressed or allowed space to breathe,  depending on culture. 

This is my thought too.   In a culture where it's more acceptable, those who fall somewhere besides hetero-normative on the spectrum will be more willing to express that openly.  

[heartlikealion]

Well when I attended that city hall meeting about homosexual materials in the library, someone read out stats for our state/that city and referenced a census by household. It was supposedly 3% for that city. 

One guy stood up and said you know why the numbers are low? Because we aren't welcome and we leave (he appeared to be transgender and I don't know his sexuality). 

My knee jerk reaction was, "not everyone will tell you and not everyone fills out a census." 

Who knows. 

Plus, we are now using more and more labels (pansexual). I wouldn't even know how to categorize these things since there are such a wide variety of answers. 

[MEmama]

17 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Well when I attended that city hall meeting about homosexual materials in the library, someone read out stats for our state/that city and referenced a census by household. It was supposedly 3% for that city. 

One guy stood up and said you know why the numbers are low? Because we aren't welcome and we leave (he appeared to be transgender and I don't know his sexuality). 

My knee jerk reaction was, "not everyone will tell you and not everyone fills out a census." 

Who knows. 

Plus, we are now using more and more labels (pansexual). I wouldn't even know how to categorize these things since there are such a wide variety of answers. 

Which is why using inclusive terms like queer or LGBTQ is preferred. 
 

[Ann.without.an.e]

I think that homosexuality is supposed to be pretty uncommon like 1%. I have a friend who is gay and he has expressed some frustration that many younger people claim bisexuality because it is now a cool thing to do but have never actually been with a partner of the opposite sex. I do know a few of dd's college friends were "bisexual" but always have been in opposite sex relationships but identified as bi when it helped them somehow. I'm repeating what I have heard him say with the 1% number and he is well studied on it. I have done zero research myself and really don't have an opinion. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[prairiewindmomma]

Gently, if someone tells you they are queer, please believe them. We shouldn’t go around claiming people aren’t really queer. That’s trying to shove someone into a heteronormative box.

I am about as straight as they come (0 on the Kinsey scale), but there are a heck of a lot of people all along the spectrum with all kinds of feelings and comfort levels of expression. I know many queer people who have some degree of internalized homophobia because of the homophobic culture they have been raised in who have difficulty enough reckoning with their own sexuality let alone someone else trying to define it for them.

[heartlikealion]

29 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Which is why using inclusive terms like queer or LGBTQ is preferred. 
 

Oh good point. I was thinking about sexual preferences and to me “T” is not necessarily a reflection of that. But the term is a good idea as all encompassing. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

12 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Gently, if someone tells you they are queer, please believe them. We shouldn’t go around claiming people aren’t really queer. That’s trying to shove someone into a heteronormative box.

I am about as straight as they come (0 on the Kinsey scale), but there are a heck of a lot of people all along the spectrum with all kinds of feelings and comfort levels of expression. I know many queer people who have some degree of internalized homophobia because of the homophobic culture they have been raised in who have difficulty enough reckoning with their own sexuality let alone someone else trying to define it for them.

Gently, follow me here to the end, I was stating my gay friend's opinion and never said I fully agree. I stated dd's friends from school as examples of his frustration. It is a complicated issue. I really don't have a formed opinion on it. The ones who struggle with it most that we know of are people who are gay or bi and they expressed to dd that they struggle with these other people jumping on a train for advancement purposes (in a very liberal school with a strong support network for those who identify in that way). And, yes, that would be frustrating. It isn't that they're being questioned as much as it seems to come when it conveniently helps them in some way and then they don't really bring it up otherwise. If you're following the situation. I'm in no way questioning how someone identifies and if they state they identify a certain way, I believe them. This is more about things I've heard people who are LGBTQ express to me or dd and not really my personal opinion. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Faith-manor]

7 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Gently, if someone tells you they are queer, please believe them. We shouldn’t go around claiming people aren’t really queer. That’s trying to shove someone into a heteronormative box.

I am about as straight as they come (0 on the Kinsey scale), but there are a heck of a lot of people all along the spectrum with all kinds of feelings and comfort levels of expression. I know many queer people who have some degree of internalized homophobia because of the homophobic culture they have been raised in who have difficulty enough reckoning with their own sexuality let alone someone else trying to define it for them.

Yes, this. 

[prairiewindmomma]

I have seen examples of others saying roughly, “We suffered for the privilege you claim today” or “They don’t appreciate xyz” or “They aren’t really…” in a few different settings. I think their perspective is off when they say someone isn’t “queer enough” or “black enough” or “feminist enough” or “loud enough” or “doing the advocacy work enough.” Yes, someone currently in a opposite sex partner relationship isn’t going to get the same degree of heckling walking down the street that they would if they were walking down the street with a same sex partner. I do acknowledge that, but I circle back to my statement that we shouldn’t go about defining other people’s sexuality. We shouldn’t be in the business of determining whether we have been “questioning enough” of whether someone is “really queer”. 
 

 

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

17 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I have seen examples of others saying roughly, “We suffered for the privilege you claim today” or “They don’t appreciate xyz” or “They aren’t really…” in a few different settings. I think their perspective is off when they say someone isn’t “queer enough” or “black enough” or “feminist enough” or “loud enough” or “doing the advocacy work enough.” Yes, someone currently in a opposite sex partner relationship isn’t going to get the same degree of heckling walking down the street that they would if they were walking down the street with a same sex partner. I do acknowledge that, but I circle back to my statement that we shouldn’t go about defining other people’s sexuality. We shouldn’t be in the business of determining whether we have been “questioning enough” of whether someone is “really queer”. 
 

 

 

And I fully agree with you. That isn't what they are referring to though. They are referring to people who don't say a peep about their sexuality until it has an advantage somehow and then they say "oh I'm bi too so I need that extra money, program, etc". This isn't about saying someone hasn't suffered enough or didn't face enough or isn't queer enough. This is someone who seems to only identify when it helps them out and when you live in close quarters with someone you get to know them pretty well and it is undeniably a little sketch when they only claim the identity when it has some advantage to them. I'm not saying they are lying, I'm saying it can be hurtful to those who identify that way all the time and have faced hardships for it. There is a young man whom I love like he's mine who has spent many spring and Christmas breaks sleeping on my couch and being part of our family who is bi who has been hurt from seeing people in the college setting pull this card. A guy in his dorm would even joke that he has never been attracted to a guy but that can't be proven and this program was helpful for him. To add insult to injury, our friend was a poor student and the guy who said this was from a pretty wealthy family. That is the situation I'm talking about. ETA: for further explanation this was a program that helped give an advantage for med school applicants. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[theelfqueen]

Until very recently the accepted number, based on historical and cross cultural research was around 1%. 

Recent broadening of the terms and cultural changes apply to the new numbers. 

 

I've always assumed this number under reported lesbians. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by theelfqueen

[prairiewindmomma]

I am not trying to deny the dynamic you see and I know it can chafe. To some extent if there is a privilege somewhere there is a risk someone may lie to exploit it.

How would you go about sorting who is queer enough? I have a queer kid who isn’t dating. I have a friend who just came out after four kids and twenty years of marriage and is still with his wife. I have another female friend who has always had female partners. Are any of them less gay than the other? How do you even begin to define that? 
 

It is a slippery slope when we try to define sexuality and I think in light of the larger political situation (ie—the movement to limit sex Ed, to remove books from libraries, to attack the legality of gay marriage) we should seek to bolster up the community and protections rather than tear others down. Infighting is a distraction against the big picture. 
 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by prairiewindmomma

[Ann.without.an.e]

8 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

 

How would you go about sorting who is queer enough? I have a queer kid who isn’t dating. I have a friend who just came out after four kids and twenty years of marriage and is still with his wife. I have another female friend who has always had female partners. Are any of them less gay than the other? How do you even begin to define that? 
 

It is a slippery slope when we try to define sexuality and I think in light of the larger political situation (ie—the movement to limit sex Ed, to remove books from libraries, to attack the legality of gay marriage) we should seek to bolster up the community and protections rather than tear others down. Infighting is a distraction against the big picture. 
 

 

 

 

You can't sort it out. You have to go by their word. You just have to know that some will abuse it just like anything can be abused by someone. It is why I said that it is complicated and I haven't really formed an opinion on it because it is almost impossible to sort out. I hate that some have been hurt by it. But we also can't go around and try to sort the real from the unreal. That isn't our job. We have to believe people and their experiences and hope that life and "karma" or whatever sort it for us. I never said that *I* was trying to sort it. I said that I know people who have been hurt by the situation. But even they wouldn't be quick to deny someone's statement about identity. 

[ktgrok]

No idea and I figure in the past we had no idea as well. 

[Frances]

43 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

And I fully agree with you. That isn't what they are referring to though. They are referring to people who don't say a peep about their sexuality until it has an advantage somehow and then they say "oh I'm bi too so I need that extra money, program, etc". This isn't about saying someone hasn't suffered enough or didn't face enough or isn't queer enough. This is someone who seems to only identify when it helps them out and when you live in close quarters with someone you get to know them pretty well and it is undeniably a little sketch when they only claim the identity when it has some advantage to them. I'm not saying they are lying, I'm saying it can be hurtful to those who identify that way all the time and have faced hardships for it. There is a young man whom I love like he's mine who has spent many spring and Christmas breaks sleeping on my couch and being part of our family who is bi who has been hurt from seeing people in the college setting pull this card. A guy in his dorm would even joke that he has never been attracted to a guy but that can't be proven and this program was helpful for him. To add insult to injury, our friend was a poor student and the guy who said this was from a pretty wealthy family. That is the situation I'm talking about. ETA: for further explanation this was a program that helped give an advantage for med school applicants. 

As someone with a gay son who was accepted to medical school, I can say I’m not surprised. And I believe what you are describing is a thing in certain circumstances. We know it happens for competitive undergrad admissions, for example with some students checking a racial box that is not true, so I would assume it also happens occasionally for competitive grad school admissions.

While the official global media school application, the AMCAS, does not ask about sexual orientation or gender identity, some school specific ones do. It actually presented a dilemma for my son because he sees being gay as only one aspect of who he is and he generally doesn’t feel he has been discriminated against because of it (not that he doesn’t acknowledge that the experience of others can be very different).
 

At one point during his college years when I mentioned that volunteering for the local AIDS crisis center might help him with the cohesive narrative he would need to present for applications and interviews, as he was likely to end up working in a rural area (with likely a lower number of gay medical providers) due to his partner’s occupation, he completely rejected the idea. He said he was doing the same thing he had done for undergrad admissions, following his passions. In his case, that was elder care and advocacy and support for those in long term care. He wasn’t going to do something simply because it would look good on his applications or give him some reason to talk about being gay.
 

 

[Tanaqui]

Ann.without.an.e, your gay friend is engaging in some extremely rude and offensive biphobic statements, and shame on you for amplifying them.

[SeaConquest]

9 hours ago, MEmama said:

One important thing to keep in mind if attempting to analyze numbers alone is the enormous loss in the LGBTQ community during the AIDS crisis. The number of lives lost was staggering and greatly skews the data we have available on an entire generation. 

Thank you for mentioning this. I always think of this devastating image when I think of that time. 

https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/san-francisco-gay-mens-chorus-aids-epidemic/

For those too young to really remember that time, I highly recommend the film, "And the Band Played On." I recently watched the series, "It's A Sin," which was also heartbreaking. There is also "Angels in America," "How To Survive A Plague," and of course, "Philadelphia."

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by SeaConquest

[Laura Corin]

3 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Gently, if someone tells you they are queer, please believe them. We shouldn’t go around claiming people aren’t really queer. That’s trying to shove someone into a heteronormative box.

I am about as straight as they come (0 on the Kinsey scale), but there are a heck of a lot of people all along the spectrum with all kinds of feelings and comfort levels of expression. I know many queer people who have some degree of internalized homophobia because of the homophobic culture they have been raised in who have difficulty enough reckoning with their own sexuality let alone someone else trying to define it for them.

And there are people who 'pass' as straight. I don't tell people I'm bi because no one asks. I've been married to a man for thirty years.   But that doesn't mean that the relationships I had with women don't exist.

[SeaConquest]

7 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

And there are people who 'pass' as straight. I don't tell people I'm bi because no one asks. I've been married to a man for thirty years.   But that doesn't mean that the relationships I had with women don't exist.

Same. I've been married for almost 15 years, but if my husband passed, I doubt I would have another relationship with a man. I was involved with my firm's LGBTQ outreach committee, but mostly I don't really talk about being bi unless I get a question on some demographic form. 

[MEmama]

17 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

And there are people who 'pass' as straight. I don't tell people I'm bi because no one asks. I've been married to a man for thirty years.   But that doesn't mean that the relationships I had with women don't exist.

Yup, same. Bi erasure plays an enormous role, as do the stereotypes and gatekeeping like the friend mentioned above displayed. Disappointingly those can be as prevalent from inside the community as from outside, in the same fashion that some women can be misogynistic. 
 

Comphet plays another huge role. It took me 30 years from the time I “should have” known I was queer to fully having my lightbulb moment. Looking back it’s glaringly obvious— and seemingly everyone close to me knew except for well…me— but comphet is tough to break free of, no matter how obvious the signs.

[Rosie_0801]

50 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Ann.without.an.e, your gay friend is engaging in some extremely rude and offensive biphobic statements, and shame on you for amplifying them.

At the same time as expressing an entirely natural frustration about cultural appropriation.

[MEmama]

14 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

At the same time as expressing an entirely natural frustration about cultural appropriation.

Cultural appropriation? The word is gatekeeping. He is insisting he knows better than they do about their own sexuality and identity. 
 

Ones partner/s does not determine one’s sexuality. It’s quite simple and is not debatable.

[Rosie_0801]

6 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Cultural appropriation? The word is gatekeeping. He is insisting he knows better than they do about their own sexuality and identity. 

What you are saying and what I said can both be happening at the same time.

[Frances]

4 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Cultural appropriation? The word is gatekeeping. He is insisting he knows better than they do about their own sexuality and identity. 
 

Ones partner/s does not determine one’s sexuality. It’s quite simple and is not debatable.

Can’t both be true? You can’t know about someone’s sexuality based on partnering or lack thereof. But there are also likely some small number of people claiming the LGTBQ+ label only if and when it gives them some advantage, such as in the med school application process. So both gatekeeping and cultural appropriation can simultaneously exist?

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Laura Corin said:

And there are people who 'pass' as straight. I don't tell people I'm bi because no one asks. I've been married to a man for thirty years.   But that doesn't mean that the relationships I had with women don't exist.

Well, and it's such a spectrum...I would never consider myself Bi, but at the same time, I once realized I was flirting with a girl, and I'm not willing to rule out the total impossibility of me having a same sex relationship (other than being married and monogamous I mean, lol). It's UNLIKELY I ever would have been in a same sex relationship, but I've learned not to think things are impossible just because they are improbable. But to me, allowing that it could happen, doesn't mean I'm Bi. To another person, that same sense may have them considering themselves Bi - that if they are not 100 percent sure they've never be able to be in a same sex relationship that makes them Bi - sort of a "one drop" rule but for sexuality. 

So it's just impossible to calculate, because of those complexities. 

[MEmama]

7 minutes ago, Frances said:

Can’t both be true? You can’t know about someone’s sexuality based on partnering or lack thereof. But there are also likely some small number of people claiming the LGTBQ+ label only if and when it gives them some advantage, such as in the med school application process. So both gatekeeping and cultural appropriation can simultaneously exist?

I think the term cultural appropriation is weird here, but of course there are unscrupulous people everywhere. 

But to insist that someone is falsifying their sexuality in order to gain something…I mean, how does one prove that? That they’ve never mentioned their sexuality isn’t a way to know what goes on in their head and heart, but it sounds like this guy is using exactly that as an a justification for his gatekeeping. Of course all we can go by is what has been relayed. There is almost always more to every story. 🤷‍♀️ 

Unrelated, his 1% figure is laughingly low. 

[Frances]

1 hour ago, MEmama said:

I think the term cultural appropriation is weird here, but of course there are unscrupulous people everywhere. 

But to insist that someone is falsifying their sexuality in order to gain something…I mean, how does one prove that? That they’ve never mentioned their sexuality isn’t a way to know what goes on in their head and heart, but it sounds like this guy is using exactly that as an a justification for his gatekeeping. Of course all we can go by is what has been relayed. There is almost always more to every story. 🤷‍♀️ 

Unrelated, his 1% figure is laughingly low. 

I don’t think you can prove it. Although in the med school example given, it sounded like the guy was directly admitting it. And maybe just straight up lying is a better description than cultural appropriation.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Frances

[Melissa Louise]

Eh, I have had romantic/sexual attractions to women. Have only ever partnered with men.

Absolutely I'd consider myself as culturally appropriating the label 'bisexual' were I to use it.

Bisexual people, who must deal with homophobia + denigration of and stereotypes about their bisexuality, because they actually live or have lived in the past a non-heteronormative life, would have every right to be pissed about it. 

If I wanted to include myself under the qu**r umbrella, I could, of course, as an agender demi femme with a biflexible identity. But that would make me a colonising d*ck, with no understanding of the history and experience of actual same sex oriented people, so I don't. 

 

 

 

 

[Melissa Louise]

Oh, and PLEASE tell gay men whose relationships were, well within living memory, criminalized - prosecuted - and whose ranks were decimated by a terrible disease, they have 'privilege' when they express discomfort around straight oriented/acting qu*eers. Jeez Louise. Gay men and lesbians are not on top of some privilege pyramid over genderqueer straight ppl. 

 

[regentrude]

6 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I think that homosexuality is supposed to be pretty uncommon like 1%. I have a friend who is gay and he has expressed some frustration that many younger people claim bisexuality because it is now a cool thing to do but have never actually been with a partner of the opposite sex. I do know a few of dd's college friends were "bisexual" but always have been in opposite sex relationships but identified as bi when it helped them somehow.

Since when is having a partner a prerequisite for having a sexual orientation? Are straight people not "straight" unless they had a partner of the opposite sex? 

Bisexuality is a continuum. It is seldom symmetric. It is also fluid and can change over the course of life (there is now plenty of research and literature about women who discover later in life that they are attracted to women). There are plenty of reasons why bisexual women may choose a male partner (not the least among them: being expected to have a male partner, seeing the hetero family model as the norm, perhaps not being aware of their same-sex desires until after they married a man.) That doesn't mean they cannot also be attracted to women.

ETA: Last I checked, there were no trophies given for being Bi. There's only crap: the common societal misconception Bi equals promiscuous, the homophobia from the straights, the hate from the lesbians for being a traitor... all pretty miserable. 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by regentrude

[SeaConquest]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

Eh, I have had romantic/sexual attractions to women. Have only ever partnered with men.

Absolutely I'd consider myself as culturally appropriating the label 'bisexual' were I to use it.

Bisexual people, who must deal with homophobia + denigration of and stereotypes about their bisexuality, because they actually live or have lived in the past a non-heteronormative life, would have every right to be pissed about it. 

If I wanted to include myself under the qu**r umbrella, I could, of course, as an agender demi femme with a biflexible identity. But that would make me a colonising d*ck, with no understanding of the history and experience of actual same sex oriented people, so I don't. 

 

 

 

 

Wait, what? I'm culturally appropriating by checking the bisexual box when I accurately identify my sexuality on a form? And I was a colonizing dick by being on the LGBTQ committee at my firm, which sought to make a stodgy white shoe law firm a more diverse and inclusive place by recruiting more LGBTQ attorneys? 

How many relationships with women do I need to have before I'm no longer culturally appropriating? Are sexual encounters sufficient to make someone bi? Do they need to be fully out before they can claim the label? This seems like an awful lot of policing people's sexual orientation, IMO.

Edited February 21, 2022 by SeaConquest

[Melissa Louise]

29 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

Wait, what? I'm culturally appropriating by checking the bisexual box when I accurately identify my sexuality on a form? And I was a colonizing dick by being on the LGBTQ committee at my firm, which sought to make a stodgy white shoe law firm a more diverse and inclusive place by recruiting more LGBTQ attorneys? 

How many relationships with women do I need to have before I'm no longer culturally appropriating? Are sexual encounters sufficient to make someone bi? Do they need to be fully out before they can claim the label? This seems like an awful lot of policing people's sexual orientation, IMO.

Definitely policing mine. As a woman who has straight up ( no pun intended) benefited from heterosexuality my entire life, I personally would not be surprised at the side eye from a gay person, or from bisexuals who have lived outside the heterosexual norm. 

Other people with flexibility around their romantic or sexual orientation may have experienced what it's like to step outside hetero world, through same sex relationships. Their identity as bisexuals is valid, as the kids say. 

But yeah, I do think it's a stretch, if you've not been in same sex relationships at any point, and presented/lived as/benefited from heterosexual relationships, to claim a capital B identity. 

But I mean, if a person can claim bisexuality despite a life lived as a heterosexual, fine. Guess my critique about gay people having 'prilevege' cones from inside the tent now. 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Melissa Louise

[regentrude]

14 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

But yeah, I do think it's a stretch, if you've not been in same sex relationships at any point, and presented/lived as/benefited from heterosexual relationships, to claim a capital B identity. 

But I mean, if a person can claim bisexuality despite a life lived as a heterosexual, fine. Guess my critique about gay people having 'prilevege' cones from inside the tent now. 

Serious question because I am confused: there are gay people who have never been in a same-sex relationship. So should they, in your opinion, not identify as gay? Do they have to be out of the closet in order to "earn" their identity? 

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, regentrude said:

Serious question because I am confused: there are gay people who have never been in a same-sex relationship. So should they, in your opinion, not identify as gay? Do they have to be out of the closet in order to "earn" their identity? 

If you've lived your whole life in a heterosexual relationship, and plan to continue to do so, but have a same sex orientation, sure, you have a same sex orientation. And probably a good dose of internalized homophobia. 

Should you run around proclaiming you are gay, part of the gay community, and oppressed on that basis without expecting the side eye from people living outside of heterosexual norms their entire lives?  Probably not. 

[SeaConquest]

45 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

If you've lived your whole life in a heterosexual relationship, and plan to continue to do so, but have a same sex orientation, sure, you have a same sex orientation. And probably a good dose of internalized homophobia. 

Should you run around proclaiming you are gay, part of the gay community, and oppressed on that basis without expecting the side eye from people living outside of heterosexual norms their entire lives?  Probably not. 

How does this make space for bi people?

What if you've just lived your life loving the people that you've loved, having sex with the people you were attracted to, checked the box for the sexual identity that most honestly matches your desires and life experience, and tried to help others that love people of the same sex to break into big law firm life? 

Edited February 22, 2022 by SeaConquest

[Melissa Louise]

4 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

What if you've just lived your life, loving the people that you've loved, having sex with the people you were attracted to, checked the box for the sexual identity that most honestly matches your desires and life experience, and tried to help others that love people of the same sex to break into big law firm life? 

You don't need my approval for any of that. I don't run around town checking bi credentials. 

If it matches your life experiences, it matches your life experiences.

Not quite the same as a functionally straight person like me claiming a bi identity because I have some flexibility around attraction. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Melissa Louise

[Tanaqui]

Listen, Melissa Louise, if you feel you're straight, nobody's gonna argue with you. But you're being a jerk here.

[Scarlett]

@Melissa Louisei do not think you are being a jerk.

[Melissa Louise]

20 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

@Melissa Louisei do not think you are being a jerk.

I don't see Tanaqui's posts, so no need to react on my behalf 🙂 

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

nvm, just please read all of my replies before you draw conclusions, the ones that go into further detail about the situation. The situation I described in more details was appropriation and not gatekeeping but you have to read further to see that. 

I'm not reading or returning to this thread since it seems some are intent on twisting what I say. It is unproductive to do so.

Y'all have a great day 🙂 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Danae]

I think some discernment is necessary to recognize whether a particular situation calls for hearing a variety of diverse voices or specifically listening to people that have experienced overt discrimination.  

[SeaConquest]

This whole thread has a weird vibe to me. I honestly thought it was going to be a bunch of religious fundamentalists yapping about how homosexuality is rare, a personal choice, yadda yadda. Instead, it's a thread about how gay/bi one has to be "qualify" as LGBTQ with a mix of hetero tears re how being LGBTQ is now being used as affirmative action.  Strange. I guess, I live in such a laid back environment that most people don't care that much about one's LGBTQ credentials. You do you.    

[maize]

LGBTQ+ identities are currently popular, loudly supported and lauded in many spheres.

Of course people--especially young people who seem to be profoundly influenced by social trends among their peers and are at a life stage where they are exploring identitity--are latching on to such labels in unprecedented droves. Human perception of identity doesn't exist in a vacuum. Never has. Never will. 

We are profoundly social creatures and pretending culture doesn't influence all kinds of identities is a denial of the communal nature of human experience.

I find such denial dishonest and unlikely to contribute to a world on which all humans are treated with decency.

[bolt.]

14 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

This whole thread has a weird vibe to me. I honestly thought it was going to be a bunch of religious fundamentalists yapping about how homosexuality is rare, a personal choice, yadda yadda. Instead, it's a thread about how gay/bi one has to be "qualify" as LGBTQ with a mix of hetero tears re how being LGBTQ is now being used as affirmative action.  Strange. I guess, I live in such a laid back environment that most people don't care that much about one's LGBTQ credentials. You do you.    

I think it's because if a category can't be defined, then a quantifiable answer can't be made. The numbers depend on the boundary.

People don't quite know how to accept other people's use of bisexuality as a self-description (a) because it's a spectrum, (b) because there might be 'bad actors' appropriating the label, (c) some people might avoid using the label for a variety of reasons (eg: in order to avoid pressing into a space that they only barely qualify for and maybe don't 'need').

So, "Who qualifies" is an essential and complex question in order to answer, "How many are there?"

In a real study, one would simply use the existing Kinsey scale or a similar basis for analysis and deciare a threshold. Then they could answer, "Of sampled adults, (xyz)% self-identify as above (threshold number) on the Kinsey scale." -- and that would be data.

In conversational analysis, it's a bit more dicey.