Dh’s Aunt died of covid and warning: unpopular opinion inside

[rebcoola]

I think not knowing anyone with long covid is not a great way to measure the prevalence. I still don't really know anyone who has died of Covid. I know of them like relatives of friends but don't know any personally.  I do know  2 people including a child who have symptoms 9 months after having covid.  The kid has a seemingly permanent rash all over her arms.  The other has neuropathy.

[busymama7]

I have long covid and have recently talked to two friends who did but didn't realize it.   They had classic symptoms but were not connecting the dots.  So anyone else who knows them would assume they had recovered.  They have recovered enough to be mostly functioning so from the outside look fine.  Honestly, most people don't know about me even.  I don't shout it from the rooftops.  

 

[bluemongoose]

5 minutes ago, rebcoola said:

I think not knowing anyone with long covid is not a great way to measure the prevalence. I still don't really know anyone who has died of Covid. I know of them like relatives of friends but don't know any personally.  I do know  2 people including a child who have symptoms 9 months after having covid.  The kid has a seemingly permanent rash all over her arms.  The other has neuropathy.

Oh I forgot the rashes! The family member above with the POTS symptoms has the rashes and brain fog too. It is pretty miserable. 

[SKL]

I dunno ... I mean I still have tailbone pain from when I fell down the stairs 20+ years ago.  I still have scars from childhood illnesses, injuries, and vaccinations (not to mention my bout with shingles which could happen again).  I still have mild dry eye which is probably related to my laser surgery 16 years ago.  I have back issues that may or may not be related to a car accident 25 years ago.  I don't view any of these as "long" anything, just stuff that happens as humans go through things.

I think it's questionable to include things like depression in the definition of long covid.  The fact that we're in a pandemic isn't great for anyone's mental health, nor are many of the effects of illness on employment, relationships, etc.

Mostly, I think we need one official definition of long covid before we can talk about how many people have it.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, SKL said:

I agree with the skepticism about the prevalence of long covid.  I know not one person who is still experiencing symptoms (other than one recently infected), including the one guy I know who had a very serious ICU case.

I know one person who had a mystery symptom for a weekend.  She got tested, and that was how she found out she had had asymptomatic Covid some weeks earlier.  The mystery symptom was nearly a year ago and never recurred.  So if that's long covid, then long covid isn't what they've hyped it up to be.

By contrast, I know a number of people who have had covid without any lingering anything.  Not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't think it's in the percentages that are being suggested.

As others have said, I tend to have lingering symptoms of every illness.  Like if I have a lung thing, I will cough for months.  If I had symptomatic covid and I coughed for more than 30 days, that wouldn't be newsworthy at all.

Yeeeessss. You said that much better than I did. 
 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Quill

[Spryte]

CDC on long Covid (symptoms, definition, etc): https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/long-term-effects/index.html

Unfortunately, I know a homeschooling mom of many with Long Covid. IRL, not an online friend. Her teen as well. They had Covid in March 2020, so they are very long term. Fatigue, joint pain, depression (mood changes, according to CDC definition). 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Spryte

[busymama7]

49 minutes ago, SKL said:

I dunno ... I mean I still have tailbone pain from when I fell down the stairs 20+ years ago.  I still have scars from childhood illnesses, injuries, and vaccinations (not to mention my bout with shingles which could happen again).  I still have mild dry eye which is probably related to my laser surgery 16 years ago.  I have back issues that may or may not be related to a car accident 25 years ago.  I don't view any of these as "long" anything, just stuff that happens as humans go through things.

I think it's questionable to include things like depression in the definition of long covid.  The fact that we're in a pandemic isn't great for anyone's mental health, nor are many of the effects of illness on employment, relationships, etc.

Mostly, I think we need one official definition of long covid before we can talk about how many people have it.

I think maybe you ought not speak of which you don't know.  Good for you for not having to live with this.  

[busymama7]

22 minutes ago, Quill said:

Yeeeessss. You said that much better than I did. 
 

I have had “long Mono” and “long bronchitis” in my life. The year I had mono, I missed so much school I almost failed a few classes, including *gym*, because I was over the absentee threshold for participation. 

Whatever.  Mono is known to be a long recovering illness.  Bronchitis takes me at least a month.  

But not a year with no end in sight.  

[Lady Florida.]

On 10/29/2021 at 8:33 AM, ktgrok said:

Well, yeah, but not when they are unvaccinated and contract a disease we know to be very deadly to the elderly. 

 

And mostly preventable - at least the severity is preventable.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Yeeeessss. You said that much better than I did. 
 

I have had “long Mono” and “long bronchitis” in my life. The year I had mono, I missed so much school I almost failed a few classes, including *gym*, because I was over the absentee threshold for participation. 

Another one who doesn’t know of what she speaks. I got mono over 30 years ago. I wish that all I failed was a couple of classes including gym. Instead I got a lifetime of pain and fatigue. 
 

eta:  long Covid is very similar to fibromyalgia/chronic fatigue syndrome. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Jean in Newcastle

[Jean in Newcastle]

And the young man I know with long Covid:  can barely hold a job. Serious neurological issues which include some mental health issues he never had before. He just graduated college and got married. Now everything in their future is uncertain. 

[Guest]

nvm 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Quill

[Guest]

1 hour ago, busymama7 said:

Whatever.  Mono is known to be a long recovering illness.  Bronchitis takes me at least a month.  

But not a year with no end in sight.  

I was not dismissing your illness in my post. I even mentioned there were a few board members and you were one I was thinking of. I just think it’s not 11 million Americans who are suffering like you are. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

I’m sorry that happened. I think that makes the point SKL was saying; viruses and infection can have outcomes beyond the initial infection. There’s nothing special about covid if some people have lasting repercussions. 
 

As I said, I am not saying long covid is imaginary or whatever, just that I think *some* outlets make more of it than the evidence warrants, and I don’t know what criteria they are using to deem someone has “long covid”. 
 

I know a guy whose health was decimated for life by a dental infection. He’s extremely compromised by an infection from thirty years ago. So I’m not saying that does not happen, just that it happens with many types of illnesses and injuries. 
 

I just don’t think we need to horriblize covid-19 in order for it to be worth beating. 

Of course other viruses can cause long term or life time illness. The fact that Covid can do so too and is rushing through populations around the world with a fairly high percentage of long term effects is not “horribilizing” it. It’s acknowledging a serious possible outcome with serious consequences that is going to affect generations to come. 

[Guest]

Just now, Jean in Newcastle said:

Of course other viruses can cause long term or life time illness. The fact that Covid can do so too and is rushing through populations around the world with a fairly high percentage of long term effects is not “horribilizing” it. It’s acknowledging a serious possible outcome with serious consequences that is going to affect generations to come. 

Do you think 11 million Americans have long covid? And what do you thinks meets the definition of long covid? Does anosmia qualify? Fatigue? Fatigue and anosmia? That was what I was asking. 

[catz]

One of the things not being discussed here with regards to long covid is how it may affect the health care system when we suddenly have many many more people with long term chronic symptoms in the system seeking out specialists, etc.   Thus pandemic has already showed a lot of weaknesses with regards to health care in the US and I don't see that ending anytime soon.  I don't know that we have good figures or definitions at this point.

I don't think not knowing someone with long covid necessarily means anything though.  I personally don't share my own chronic issues widely.  I can say now I have teen and pre-teen relative now that will be following up and taking prescription drugs for months due to the after affects of covid but ugh, I am not comfortable putting other people's personal stories out on public forums.  My too young to be vaxxed nibling was just hospitalized last week after being recovered from covid for covid related after affects.  Both kids are taking prescription drugs that certainly have much less long term data that the vaccines now have. I know a couple other people who took months to recover early on and they had very early cases of covid, but did seem to improve after a while.  Anyway, communities are not at all being hit equally by this.  11 million out of 330 million still leaves plenty of space for not knowing someone.  And I have no idea if that number is accurate or not.  In terms of having a pretty basic definition of long covid, that wouldn't surprise me.  

Anyway, whether or not other conditions can lead to similar chronic symptoms is just more reason to get vaccinated and take precautions.  Maybe we should be talking more about long term ramifications of other communicable diseases.   It's really hard for people like this to get taken seriously by health care as it is.  When medical professionals don't know, they tend to just toss up their hands.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

18 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

How would you know whether someone you knew suffered long COVID symptoms? People are good at hiding things like that. 

You might know people who have long COVID but they haven't shared it with you. 

 

Exactly. These are called “invisible illnesses “ for a reason. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

21 minutes ago, Quill said:

Do you think 11 million Americans have long covid? And what do you thinks meets the definition of long covid? Does anosmia qualify? Fatigue? Fatigue and anosmia? That was what I was asking. 

Do you know what fatigue is?  It isn’t just being tired. It’s a “I don’t know if I have the energy to shower “, “I can hardly manage to get the dishes to the sink” bone crushing, soul crushing tiredness. So yes, fatigue counts. 
 

I wouldn’t count anosmia with no other symptoms. 

[Dmmetler]

Does "Long COVID" include people who have lasting health effects and disability due to the COVID disease, like my Stroke survivor student who is now permanently disabled in his 40's? Or those who are now dependent on oxygen supplementation? I honestly know about as many people who have long term, likely permanent disability due to not at all hidden disabilities that were caused by COVID, such as strokes and lung damage as those who talk about "Long COVID" symptoms. Now, I'm in an area that was hit pretty hard, and I perhaps have more contact with high-risk populations than some do, but it doesn't seem at all hidden that many recover without issue from COVID, some have long term fatigue, brain fog, and other less visible symptoms, and for some, especially those who got bad enough to be in ICU, recovering enough to go home doesn't mean you've recovered. It just means you don't need to be hospitalized anymore. 

 

 

 

 

[regentrude]

2 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I wouldn’t count anosmia with no other symptoms. 

A permanent loss of taste and smell would definitely affect the individual's quality of life. Losing the ability to enjoy food is not something I wish to experience. 
Surely not as debilitating as fatigue, and career ending only for some, but it would totally suck.

Edited November 1, 2021 by regentrude

[Guest]

nn

Edited November 1, 2021 by Quill

[Guest]

. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Quill

[TCB]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

Yeeeessss. You said that much better than I did. 
 

I have had “long Mono” and “long bronchitis” in my life. The year I had mono, I missed so much school I almost failed a few classes, including *gym*, because I was over the absentee threshold for participation. 

Honestly you and SKL sound unkind in the way you are talking about this.

If it helps any, I know several people with long Covid to make up for you not knowing any. Be thankful you don’t know someone. Actually you may know someone but they just haven’t told you.

I don’t know if the number in the article is accurate or not, but it is a significant problem for a number of people. 
 

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Do you know what fatigue is?  It isn’t just being tired. It’s a “I don’t know if I have the energy to shower “, “I can hardly manage to get the dishes to the sink” bone crushing, soul crushing tiredness. So yes, fatigue counts. 
 

I wouldn’t count anosmia with no other symptoms. 

Yes, I do know what fatigue is. 

[Guest]

Just now, TCB said:

Honestly you and SKL sound unkind in the way you are talking about this.

If it helps any, I know several people with long Covid to make up for you not knowing any. Be thankful you don’t know someone. Actually you may know someone but they just haven’t told you.

I don’t know if the number in the article is accurate or not, but it is a significant problem for a number of people. 
 

 

Okay, well i apologize for seeming unkind. That was not my intention. I will bow out now since this is getting no better the more I talk. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

12 minutes ago, regentrude said:

A permanent loss of taste and smell would definitely affect the individual's quality of life. Losing the ability to enjoy food is not something I wish to experience. 
Surely not as debilitating as fatigue, and career ending only for some, but it would totally suck.

Yes, I do agree. 

[Corraleno]

Studies that set the cutoff at 30 days fail to distinguish between people who aren't quite back to normal yet, but soon will be, and people who have serious long-term health consequences. And that leads to inflated numbers, which then cause people to dismiss the reality of long covid, because it seems implausible on the face of it that 1 in 3 people who get covid end up with a chronic, long-term health problem. I think 10% is much more likely — and that is no small problem in a country of 330 million. But we really need much better data based on criteria that can distinguish between people who still feel tired or still have a cough a month after diagnosis, but will  be fine in a few more weeks, and people who have significant on-going issues months later. Because we can't have intelligent conversations about "long covid," or develop effective treatments for it, if someone with a slight residual cough a few weeks after recovery and someone with neurological issues six months later have the same diagnosis.

[Laura Corin]

32 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Studies that set the cutoff at 30 days fail to distinguish between people who aren't quite back to normal yet, but soon will be, and people who have serious long-term health consequences. And that leads to inflated numbers, which then cause people to dismiss the reality of long covid, because it seems implausible on the face of it that 1 in 3 people who get covid end up with a chronic, long-term health problem. I think 10% is much more likely — and that is no small problem in a country of 330 million. But we really need much better data based on criteria that can distinguish between people who still feel tired or still have a cough a month after diagnosis, but will  be fine in a few more weeks, and people who have significant on-going issues months later. Because we can't have intelligent conversations about "long covid," or develop effective treatments for it, if someone with a slight residual cough a few weeks after recovery and someone with neurological issues six months later have the same diagnosis.

This is self-reported, but it usefully distinguishes between different time periods  

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/long-covid

[kbutton]

5 hours ago, bluemongoose said:

I think part of the problem with "not knowing" someone...it is sometimes really hard to get the Dr to take you seriously. I know one person who is younger and was healthy. She has POTS symptoms and the Drs are just passing her all around. It has been over a year.

And then there is the issue of what is encompassed in the term "long covid". 

I have a 4th family member who had serious COVID which caused a stroke. They are not the same after that. Is the damage done by the stroke that is long term and the cognitive decline "Long COVID" or not?

Regarding the bolded, we've always had illnesses that present this way, and it stinks. It's a big gray area in medicine, but I do think it's getting better. I personally think there should be a point in their medical training where every practitioner in training should have to research and present information on a rare/difficult to diagnose disease to the rest of the class. It could be an entire semester where that's all they do. I also think at some point during med school, they should be required to get in touch with an organization that serves people with rare or underserved diagnoses to see what it's like for people to have find doctors on their own and spearhead grass roots efforts for awareness. Many of these orgs are started by patients and their doctors to help others. It's really a special thing to learn about and experience.

I think we'll see a host of ICD codes added to address clear cut health status changes post-Covid, and I think we'll see a more amorphous Long Covid type of diagnosis (might even be expanded to include any post-viral thing that last long-term), and I think it will be a "syndrome" type of diagnosis. Clear-cut stuff might just have "secondary to infection (or Covid)" tacked on, such as exercise-induced asthma. I think those kinds of codes already exist for at least some things, they just might choose to add specific Covid references to capture data for studies. 

I think it could lead to greater awareness of disorders like POTS.

I think various kinds of insurance companies (including life and disability) are going to want to know because it's going to be $$$. 

Pandemic flu caused a fair amount of disability. My relative that had it and survived had a collapsed lung for the rest of his life. He was able to work, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a problem. 

53 minutes ago, regentrude said:

A permanent loss of taste and smell would definitely affect the individual's quality of life. Losing the ability to enjoy food is not something I wish to experience. 
Surely not as debilitating as fatigue, and career ending only for some, but it would totally suck.

I know people with a poor, missing, or altered sense of smell not related to Covid, and it varies from really debilitating to annoying. I would be so upset if it were me. 

[WildflowerMom]

1 hour ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

How would you know whether someone you knew suffered long COVID symptoms? People are good at hiding things like that. 

You might know people who have long COVID but they haven't shared it with you. 

 

Yes.  I have a thread going right now about whatever the heck is going on with me medically.   my own mom doesn't even know all I've shared on that thread.    I can only speak for me, but I don't like 'putting it all out there' irl.  🤷🏻‍♀️

[Corraleno]

36 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

This is self-reported, but it usefully distinguishes between different time periods  

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/long-covid

As expected, that data shows a huge drop off in symptom reports after 4 weeks, it just makes no sense to use that as a cutoff for long covid.

[freesia]

4 hours ago, busymama7 said:

Whatever.  Mono is known to be a long recovering illness.  Bronchitis takes me at least a month.  

But not a year with no end in sight.  

 Actually, my FIL had an enlarged spleen from mono as a teen and it’s thought that it’s related to the cancer her died of. It would be great if no diseases had long term consequences. 

[TechWife]

On 10/28/2021 at 11:40 PM, MissLemon said:

Fraud and laziness are two different things, though. There was fraud prior to the pandemic, and maybe the extra payments incentivized people who were already leaning toward breaking the law anyway.  

If I had a choice between crappy, public facing job with mediocre pay during a pandemic Or staying home and getting UE that was equal or *better* than what I made at the crappy job? I'd be a fool to go to work. 

IIRC, One of the reasons the unemployment bonuses were offered was because they wanted people to stay home - it actually worked the way they intended it to work, to the dismay of some. Am I remembering that correctly?

[SKL]

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Studies that set the cutoff at 30 days fail to distinguish between people who aren't quite back to normal yet, but soon will be, and people who have serious long-term health consequences. And that leads to inflated numbers, which then cause people to dismiss the reality of long covid, because it seems implausible on the face of it that 1 in 3 people who get covid end up with a chronic, long-term health problem. I think 10% is much more likely — and that is no small problem in a country of 330 million. But we really need much better data based on criteria that can distinguish between people who still feel tired or still have a cough a month after diagnosis, but will  be fine in a few more weeks, and people who have significant on-going issues months later. Because we can't have intelligent conversations about "long covid," or develop effective treatments for it, if someone with a slight residual cough a few weeks after recovery and someone with neurological issues six months later have the same diagnosis.

Yes, this is my meaning also.

[Ausmumof3]

7 hours ago, SKL said:

I dunno ... I mean I still have tailbone pain from when I fell down the stairs 20+ years ago.  I still have scars from childhood illnesses, injuries, and vaccinations (not to mention my bout with shingles which could happen again).  I still have mild dry eye which is probably related to my laser surgery 16 years ago.  I have back issues that may or may not be related to a car accident 25 years ago.  I don't view any of these as "long" anything, just stuff that happens as humans go through things.

I think it's questionable to include things like depression in the definition of long covid.  The fact that we're in a pandemic isn't great for anyone's mental health, nor are many of the effects of illness on employment, relationships, etc.

Mostly, I think we need one official definition of long covid before we can talk about how many people have it.

Given evidence for neurological complications with Covid (anosmia is a neurological symptom) I don’t think it’s that questionable.  There’s also studies showing weird things happening with REM sleep but they are small.  We need comparison to background rates I guess.

there’s a known link with depression post flu and other viral illnesses so it’s not that unusual either 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-021-00926-1
 

Studies showing actual physical changes that could be a plausible mechanism for the neurological stuff.  We aren’t great as a society at acknowledging brain stuff anyway so maybe physical evidence will change that. 

[busymama7]

1 hour ago, freesia said:

 Actually, my FIL had an enlarged spleen from mono as a teen and it’s thought that it’s related to the cancer her died of. It would be great if no diseases had long term consequences. 

Sorry I was feeling really snippy because of some of the posts and so my post probably wasn't clear.  I was agreeing that mono is a long term thing and we already know that.  Not only is the acute phase long but there can be many long term issues.  That's why it annoys me so much when people question long covid. It's not a new thing that viruses can cause long term issues. 

[Murphy101]

9 hours ago, bluemongoose said:

I forgot two more...they now have depression. They didnt have depression before their 2nd time of COVID. And it has been so obvious that it was the second bout of COVID when it started. Studies have talked about it causing psychological problems. So is that Long Covid?

My understanding is the depression is not a direct result of covid so much as a by product. Generally speaking, most people with a long term or crisis illness develops some level of depression, more so if they lack support or have other stressors such as employment issues or financial struggle. 

[Murphy101]

23 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

Sorry I was feeling really snippy because of some of the posts and so my post probably wasn't clear.  I was agreeing that mono is a long term thing and we already know that.  Not only is the acute phase long but there can be many long term issues.  That's why it annoys me so much when people question long covid. It's not a new thing that viruses can cause long term issues. 

I have had two kids over the years develop mono. Almost no one who hasn’t had it knows that mono is actually very serious. You’re right, it’s not at all a new scientific medical fact that viruses can have long term issues. But it’s also never been more obvious a fact that for the most part our society is extremely science and history ignorant and, worse, a lot of what they think are facts about what little they think they know is not actually true.  I completely agree it’s frustrating as all heck. 

[busymama7]

1 minute ago, Murphy101 said:

My understanding is the depression is not a direct result of covid so much as a by product. Generally speaking, most people with a long term or crisis illness develops some level of depression, more so if they lack support or have other stressors such as employment issues or financial struggle. 

I really don't believe it is that based on my own experience and that of my adult child who got it too.  We both have had pretty severe mental health issues after never having any before.  Both depression and anxiety.  And actually even though there is still no end in sight for me, my mental health is better than it was the first 6 months or so.  I absolutely had sensory issues that I've never had before.  I truly do not believe mine have been situational.  It totally felt like something had taken over the real me and that is how my child describes it too.  That child was seriously the most even, cheerful, loving person and covid severely affected them mentally.  They are doing better now though. No medication for either of us.  Good nutrition, supplements and time I think is what helped. I'm not 100% but I'm improved for sure. 

[bluemongoose]

The two that I know with depression that resulted after COVID didn't have a medical crisis. They got COVID and were certainly ill, but they didnt need hospital care or anything. They had what is considered a mild case. Ever since then I could tell they were different. They couldnt find anything cheerful, everything was horrible to them, it was seriously draining to speak to them. I did because they are close friends...but the change was stark. 

[Dmmetler]

1 minute ago, bluemongoose said:

The two that I know with depression that resulted after COVID didn't have a medical crisis. They got COVID and were certainly ill, but they didnt need hospital care or anything. They had what is considered a mild case. Ever since then I could tell they were different. They couldnt find anything cheerful, everything was horrible to them, it was seriously draining to speak to them. I did because they are close friends...but the change was stark. 

Which speaks to something more like PANDAS/PANS. It's known that infections can trigger behavioral/emotional symptoms in some individuals, particularly children. 

[Selkie]

16 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

I really don't believe it is that based on my own experience and that of my adult child who got it too.  We both have had pretty severe mental health issues after never having any before.  Both depression and anxiety.  And actually even though there is still no end in sight for me, my mental health is better than it was the first 6 months or so.  I absolutely had sensory issues that I've never had before.  I truly do not believe mine have been situational.  It totally felt like something had taken over the real me and that is how my child describes it too.  That child was seriously the most even, cheerful, loving person and covid severely affected them mentally.  They are doing better now though. No medication for either of us.  Good nutrition, supplements and time I think is what helped. I'm not 100% but I'm improved for sure. 

Something like that happened to me after a bad bout of the flu, when I was plunged into the deepest, darkest depression. I am not someone who normally gets depressed, so it was extremely odd. Like you said, it felt like something had taken over the real me.

I was so worried about it that I did some research and read that the inflammatory response triggered by illness can cause severe depression in some people. Mine thankfully only lasted a couple weeks, and I have the utmost sympathy for anyone who has to endure that for longer. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

28 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

I really don't believe it is that based on my own experience and that of my adult child who got it too.  We both have had pretty severe mental health issues after never having any before.  Both depression and anxiety.  And actually even though there is still no end in sight for me, my mental health is better than it was the first 6 months or so.  I absolutely had sensory issues that I've never had before.  I truly do not believe mine have been situational.  It totally felt like something had taken over the real me and that is how my child describes it too.  That child was seriously the most even, cheerful, loving person and covid severely affected them mentally.  They are doing better now though. No medication for either of us.  Good nutrition, supplements and time I think is what helped. I'm not 100% but I'm improved for sure. 

Yes, this young man I was referring to above has depression and anxiety that he's never had before and he doesn't believe it to be situational either.  And neither does his neurologist.  It's all part and parcel of the entire collection of symptoms he's exhibiting.  People have a tendency to separate out the "mental health" part of things instead of seeing that they can be caused by physical changes in the brain or neurological system (and perhaps other systems as well). 

[fairfarmhand]

5 hours ago, regentrude said:

A permanent loss of taste and smell would definitely affect the individual's quality of life. Losing the ability to enjoy food is not something I wish to experience. 
Surely not as debilitating as fatigue, and career ending only for some, but it would totally suck.

My dd 19 has had wonky taste and smell since we all had covid in december. For her it's not only a lack of taste. It's that food tastes horrible. To the point where it triggers her gag reflex. Could you eat if most things tasted and smelled like rotting flesh? it has improved a lot, but for my 5 foot 1 inch dd, she got down to 98 pounds, and we were seriously worried about her. She was skeletal. She'd gagged so much that she struggled to eat much of anything, or even take a pill without gagging. 

It's SO much better now, but losing or having messed up taste and smell is a pretty big deal. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by fairfarmhand

[busymama7]

Just now, fairfarmhand said:

My dd 19 has had wonky taste and smell since we all had covid in december. For her it's not only a lack of taste. It's that food tastes horrible. To the point where it triggers her gag reflex. Could you eat if most things tasted and smelled like rotting flesh? it has improved a lot, but for my 5 foot 1 inch dd, she got down to 98 pounds, and we were seriously worried about her. She'd gagged so much that she struggled to eat much of anything, or even take a pill without gagging. 

It's SO much better now, but losing or having messed up taste and smell is a pretty big deal. 

I agree. Mine didn't last long but it was horrible. Not only that, the loss of taste and smell is neurologic so that lingering should absolutely count as a long covid case.   

[TCB]

9 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

I agree. Mine didn't last long but it was horrible. Not only that, the loss of taste and smell is neurologic so that lingering should absolutely count as a long covid case.   

Someone I work with lost her sense of smell and taste when she had Covid about 16 months ago and she still has a horrible taste at times which she calls the ‘Covid taste’ , she has still not got much sense of smell back either.

[AbcdeDooDah]

7 minutes ago, TCB said:

Someone I work with lost her sense of smell and taste when she had Covid about 16 months ago and she still has a horrible taste at times which she calls the ‘Covid taste’ , she has still not got much sense of smell back either.

My sister had it in January and she has "Covid smells." Just random, awful smells.

[Murphy101]

42 minutes ago, bluemongoose said:

The two that I know with depression that resulted after COVID didn't have a medical crisis. They got COVID and were certainly ill, but they didnt need hospital care or anything. They had what is considered a mild case. Ever since then I could tell they were different. They couldnt find anything cheerful, everything was horrible to them, it was seriously draining to speak to them. I did because they are close friends...but the change was stark. 

That can be how many people describe how their depression depression set in, regardless of the reasons it sets in.   And yes. It’s stark and it’s scary to feel it or see it in loved ones. But that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a direct result of covid.  Correlation and causation are very difficult to sift apart.  

[KSera]

9 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

That can be how many people describe how their depression depression set in, regardless of the reasons it sets in.   And yes. It’s stark and it’s scary to feel it or see it in loved ones. But that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a direct result of covid.  Correlation and causation are very difficult to sift apart.  

There has been a noted link between COVID and new onset psychosis as well. Even in people with mild cases of Covid.