Regeneron

[pinball]

Since there are lies posted in other threads about this that are allowed to stand unchecked, I thought I’d share.

Regeneron is free, just like vaccines.

It is not indicated for every patient.

As always, do your own research. 
 

Some links:

Site with general info on finding mAb therapies and indications for use

https://crushcovid.com/?wpv-state=michigan&wpv_aux_current_post_id=55&wpv_aux_parent_post_id=55&wpv_view_count=73

regeneron Twitter…with lots of links

 

[ktgrok]

Is getting treated free, as far as doctor's fees, outpatient facility, etc etc? Like, tests are supposedly free but plenty of people are paying money to get tested because the doctor's visit is not free. 

Curious. 

[Pawz4me]

Call me clueless, but I don't understand why people would think a vaccine that's under an emergency use authorization is suspect, but a treatment that's under an emergency use authorization is okay. I know that hasn't been expressed on this thread, and maybe not even on the board, but it certainly seems to be a thing.

And yes, just because the treatment is free doesn't mean that the administration of said treatment is free. Just like with the vaccines, where most drug stores are charging insurance companies an administration fee. When DH was on an infusion for cancer treatment the drugs were, of course, astronomically expensive. And the administration fee for what was less than an hour infusion and took about 15 minutes total of staff time was several thousand dollars.

[Hyacinth]

34 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Call me clueless, but I don't understand why people would think a vaccine that's under an emergency use authorization is suspect, but a treatment that's under an emergency use authorization is okay. I know that hasn't been expressed on this thread, and maybe not even on the board, but it certainly seems to be a thing.

And yes, just because the treatment is free doesn't mean that the administration of said treatment is free. Just like with the vaccines, where most drug stores are charging insurance companies an administration fee. When DH was on an infusion for cancer treatment the drugs were, of course, astronomically expensive. And the administration fee for what was less than an hour infusion and took about 15 minutes total of staff time was several thousand dollars.

I suspect it's more about the necessity. For many people, the vaccine is seen as protecting against a future possibility; the treatment is for right now when I obviously need it.

[catz]

Beyond the free issue, the thought that the average vaccinated/boostered and asymptomatic person within hours of a positive test could get access this treatment is laughable.  Let alone administered in their home.   

ETA oh and imagine a world where we all had access to daily testing.

Edited August 18, 2021 by FuzzyCatz

[Pam in CT]

re access to in-home administration of EUA treatment in still-limited quantities... when hospitals throughout the state are so overwhelemed that they are curtailing elective surgeries and diverting patients

3 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Beyond the free issue, the thought that the average vaccinated/boostered and asymptomatic person within hours of a positive test could get access this treatment is laughable.  Let alone administered in their home.   

Sure. It's good to be the king.

 

 

 

 

The treatment *does* look promisting -- it was just about this time a year ago that the then-POTUS received it when he was substantially more ill than Abbott, fortunately, seems to be.

But treatment doesn't stem transmission. At best it is a reactive and very expensive band-aid.  Better than no band-aid to be sure, to individuals with the bad fortune to fall ill and the good fortune to get access to it. But it can't solve the problems that are plaguing our overwhelmed hospitals, or burnt out HCW, or schoolchildren falling ill, or still-disrupted labor markets and supply chains, or still-deferred travel, or or or or or.

Every tool in the toolkit is a blessing. This one does not mitigate the larger curse.

[wathe]

 

@ktgrok, @Pawz4me Yes, the dose itself is free of cost to the patient, but the administration may not be (and given what I think I know about US healthcare, I'm guessing that administration almost certainly will not be free of cost to the patient.)

The government has said it will provide these doses at no cost to patients, though healthcare facilities may charge fees related to administration.

From NYT:

Under deals that each company struck with the federal government, the doses will be free of charge, although some patients, depending on their insurance coverage, may have to pay for administering the drug, which must be infused by a health care provider.

Looks like the total number of doses purchases=d by the US government  1.5 million.  That's not going to be enough to ensure free and timely access for all.

Also, this is an expensive drug.  $2000-$2500 per treatment.  Someone (your government, your tax dollars) is paying for that.

[catz]

1 minute ago, Pam in CT said:

re access to in-home administration of EUA treatment in still-limited quantities... when hospitals throughout the state are so overwhelemed that they are curtailing elective surgeries and diverting patients

Sure. It's good to be the king.

Exactly, whole thing has a very let them eat cake/3rd world vibe about it.  Keep going to work and school peons and don't wear masks.  Just ignore those overwhelmed hospitals behind the curtain.  The ruling class will take care of theirs.  

I just discovered our state has an ethics document on the use of monoclonal antibodies during surge conditions.  Priority would go to HCW and long term care workers.  Makes sense.  

[WildflowerMom]

My in-laws got monoclonal antibody infusions 2 weeks ago when they were sick.  It did help them feel better.  They also got ivermectin and hydrocloroquine.   My fil, especially, was at very high risk and when I first heard he was positive I immediately started going through funeral planning in my head.   But, thankfully, he's ok now.   They were not vaccinated, because 🤬🤯🤬🤯.   And they're adults so I can't drag them to get vaxxed-- even though I'd like to.   But, regardless, this cocktail of meds did help them.  

[mathnerd]

26 minutes ago, wathe said:

 Also, this is an expensive drug.  $2000-$2500 per treatment.  Someone (your government, your tax dollars) is paying for that.

Thanks for mentioning the cost to the taxpayers. Each dose of Regeneron treatment is very expensive.

the Regeneron company recommends that vaccines are the correct approach.

Cells taken from a foetus were used in the development of monoclonal antibody treatment since people whose religious beliefs oppose such things have refused the vaccines ( https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/how-cells-taken-decades-old-fetal-tissue-are-used-covid-n1242740 )

regeneron monoclonal antibody treatment is also under emergency use authorization (like the Covid vaccines)

Did Regeneron develop the monoclonal antibody treatment by using a vaccinated person’s antibodies as the base of their cloning? (I need to research this since I am curious due to the anti vaccine sentiment in many areas where the treatment is now becoming commonly used).

[Faith-manor]

Just now, mathnerd said:

Thanks for mentioning the cost to the taxpayers. Each dose of Regeneron treatment is very expensive.

the Regeneron company recommends that vaccines are the correct approach.

Cells taken from a foetus were used in the development of monoclonal antibody treatment since people whose religious beliefs oppose such things have refused the vaccines ( https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/how-cells-taken-decades-old-fetal-tissue-are-used-covid-n1242740 )

regeneron monoclonal antibody treatment is also under emergency use authorization (like the Covid vaccines)

Did Regeneron develop the monoclonal antibody treatment by using a vaccinated person’s antibodies as the base of their cloning? (I need to research this since I am curious due to the anti vaccine sentiment in many areas where the treatment is now becoming commonly used).

I find it interesting that at my mother's church, which has had numerous covid outbreaks - she has only been watching on zoom - several people who are adamantly opposed to the vaccine because fetal cells, have gotten sick and had the monoclonal antibodies! Bunch of hypocrites!

[BlsdMama]

40 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Exactly, whole thing has a very let them eat cake/3rd world vibe about it.  Keep going to work and school peons and don't wear masks.  Just ignore those overwhelmed hospitals behind the curtain.  The ruling class will take care of theirs.  

 

Medical care as a whole is a very, “Let them eat cake,” deal. If it wasn’t for a decent income and private insurance, I’d be an invalid. We paid for the ramp and the medical van. We paid for the bathroom that lets me bathe. My private insurance bought me a $62k wheelchair that Medicaid or Medicare willing have covered. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, equalized about healthcare. However, in some areas, they are talking about not allowing/covering cough assist or trachs for ALS patients as “pointless expenditure,” so I guess fair is a very interesting word...

I can’t comment on treatment or vaccines but wanted to point out medical care has never, and will never, be equal  

 

[pinball]

7 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

Thanks for mentioning the cost to the taxpayers. Each dose of Regeneron treatment is very expensive.

the Regeneron company recommends that vaccines are the correct approach.

Cells taken from a foetus were used in the development of monoclonal antibody treatment since people whose religious beliefs oppose such things have refused the vaccines ( https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/how-cells-taken-decades-old-fetal-tissue-are-used-covid-n1242740 )

regeneron monoclonal antibody treatment is also under emergency use authorization (like the Covid vaccines)

Did Regeneron develop the monoclonal antibody treatment by using a vaccinated person’s antibodies as the base of their cloning? (I need to research this since I am curious due to the anti vaccine sentiment in many areas where the treatment is now becoming commonly used).

What is the cost of a human life again? 

[pinball]

An intravenous bag used to administer Regen-Co monoclonal antibody medication.

Photographer: Kayana Szymczak/Bloomberg

In recent days, that very message could be heard coming from federal officials including White House adviser Marcella Nunez-Smith. Vaccination is most important, she told reporters on Thursday, “but if you get Covid-19 and you’re at high risk, I want to assure you about these therapies. Monoclonal antibodies work. They are safe. They’re free. They keep people out of the hospital and help keep them alive.”

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yrs, people should know about monoclonal antibodies. I have been glad to see psas on local television telling people to ask for them. I have wondered why people have to ask though- the ads imply that they aren’t offered as a matter of course but I really don’t know. 
 

I am also glad to see that the information provided includes a plea for people to get vaccinated. 

[mathnerd]

15 minutes ago, pinball said:

What is the cost of a human life again? 

Cost of a vaccine is cheaper than cost of Regeneron treatment, which antivaxxers don’t seem to understand (not to mention cost of icu admission).

[Spy Car]

3 minutes ago, pinball said:

What is the cost of a human life again? 

Pure chutzpah.

Bill

 

[catz]

15 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

 

I can’t comment on treatment or vaccines but wanted to point out medical care has never, and will never, be equal  

 

Oh I totally agree this isn't unique in the US.  But it still enrages me.  Some of us still aspire to fair and equitable health care for all.

 

6 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Yrs, people should know about monoclonal antibodies. I have been glad to see psas on local television telling people to ask for them. I have wondered why people have to ask though- the ads imply that they aren’t offered as a matter of course but I really don’t know. 
 

I am also glad to see that the information provided includes a plea for people to get vaccinated. 

Right.  Why isn't the health department following up with certain demographics after they test positive and just have clinics set up.  Or at least automate e-mailing people that test positive that if you fall within some guidelines follow up at phone # X or Y to set up an infusion.  Anyone that doesn't have a clinic or knowledge about this is at a strong disadvantage to timely access.  

[wathe]

3 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

Cost of a vaccine is cheaper than cost of Regeneron treatment, which antivaxxers don’t seem to understand (not to mention cost of icu admission).

By a lot.  $30-40 per dose vs $2000-2500 per dose.  Almost a hundred fold difference.

[Corraleno]

27 minutes ago, pinball said:

What is the cost of a human life again? 

To the people spreading anti-mask and anti-vax nonsense, the value of a human life seems to be 0 — as long as it's other people's lives that are lost. Their own lives, and their "right" to infect other people with a potentially deadly disease, are far more important than other people's lives, health, livelihoods, etc. 

[pinball]

FYI…regeneron is indicated for vaccinated patients so everyone crying about the costs should consider the shame and guilt they are heaping on those who are vaccinated and now need more care.

[mathnerd]

I had another question regarding monoclonal antibody treatment that many religious opposers of vaccines and most antivaxxers might be in line to take soon: is the cloning done to produce Regeneron monoclonal antibody also considered “gene therapy” by these folks or do they save those lies only for the mRNA vaccines? Because, doesn’t “cloning” go against the values of their religion and also messes with “gene technology” if we went by the antivaxxer’s reasoning.

[Spy Car]

Curious that Gov. Ron DeSantis who has opposed every single rational life saving measure against Covid--like discouraging masking and vaccines--is now pushing Regeneron's expensive monoclonal antibody treatment.

I wonder if the fact that the number one donor to DeSantis, billionaire Ken Griffin, also heads the second-leading investor in Regeneron has anything to do with it?

Bill

 

[Spy Car]

1 minute ago, pinball said:

FYI…regeneron is indicated for vaccinated patients so everyone crying about the costs should consider the shame and guilt they are heaping on those who are vaccinated and now need more care.

More trolling.

Bill

[mathnerd]

4 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Curious that Gov. Ron DeSantis who has opposed every single rational life saving measure against Covid--like discouraging masking and vaccines--is now pushing Regeneron's expensive monoclonal antibody treatment.

I wonder if the fact that the number one donor to DeSantis, billionaire Ken Griffin, also heads the second-leading investor in Regeneron has anything to do with it?

Bill

 

And senator Rand Paul failed to disclose that his wife invested in the company that makes remedisvir.

[Faith-manor]

12 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Curious that Gov. Ron DeSantis who has opposed every single rational life saving measure against Covid--like discouraging masking and vaccines--is now pushing Regeneron's expensive monoclonal antibody treatment.

I wonder if the fact that the number one donor to DeSantis, billionaire Ken Griffin, also heads the second-leading investor in Regeneron has anything to do with it?

Bill

 

Bingo!

[KSera]

2 hours ago, pinball said:

Since there are lies posted in other threads about this that are allowed to stand unchecked, I thought I’d share.

Regeneron is free, just like vaccines.

It is not indicated for every patient.

As always, do your own research. 
 

Some links:

Site with general info on finding mAb therapies and indications for use

https://crushcovid.com/?wpv-state=michigan&wpv_aux_current_post_id=55&wpv_aux_parent_post_id=55&wpv_view_count=73

regeneron Twitter…with lots of links

 

I didn’t see the lies you’re referring to (unless you mean the post where someone said regeneron is costly and not available to everyone? Which, both statements are true.), but thanks for starting this thread. Regeneron is one of the few medications with good evidence of benefit early in the course of disease, and I’d like to see more people be able to get it when needed. 
 

The topic of people being unwilling to be vaccinated because EUA, but wanting regeneron and everything and anything available to save their life once they become ill reminds me of this op-Ed letter from a Covid unit doctor I read this morning. This is the same scenario she describes. It’s a sad story. 
https://news.yahoo.com/op-ed-doctor-covid-unit-162841532.html

“This was a common excuse people gave for not getting vaccinated, fearing the vaccine because the Food and Drug Administration had only granted it emergency-use authorization so far, not permanent approval. Yet the treatments he had turned to, antibiotics, monoclonal antibodies and hydroxychloroquine were considered experimental, with mixed evidence to support their use.

The only proven lifesaver we’ve had in this pandemic is a vaccine that many people don’t want. A vaccine we give away to other countries because supply overwhelms demand in the U.S. A vaccine people in other countries stand in line for hours to receive, if they can get it at all.

“Well," I said, “I am going to treat you with, remdesivir, which only recently received FDA approval.” I explained that it had been under an EUA for most of last year and had not been studied or administered as widely as COVID-19 vaccines. That more than 353 million doses of COVID-19 vaccine had been administered in the U.S. along with more than 4.7 billion doses worldwide without any overwhelming, catastrophic side effects. “Not nearly as many doses of remdesivir have been given or studied in people and its long-term side effects are still unknown,” I said. “Do you still want me to give it to you?”

“Yes” he responded, “Whatever it takes to save my life.”

It did not work.

[Happy2BaMom]

55 minutes ago, pinball said:

What is the cost of a human life again? 

Huh?

You do realize that millions and millions of people in this country do not consider the cost of a human life to be worth the inconvenience of wearing a paper mask in public.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Everyone, vaccinated or not, should get treated appropriately for their health situation.  And yes, if I get a breakthrough case I will ask for monoclonal antibodies.  But the fact is that less people will need the monoclonal antibodies if they were vaccinated to begin with because monoclonal antibodies aren't only for vaccinated people who are much less likely to have breakthrough cases or at least symptomatic ones. 

Vaccinate Now!  Vaccinate Often 🙂   And if you do happen to get a symptomatic breakthrough case, please do ask for mononclonal antibody treatment.

My unvaxxed friends who are getting very symptomatic cases of Covid should also ask for monoclonal antibody treatment.  I am frustrated because they are going through a lot of grief that they might have avoided (not necessarily totally because as has been said ad nauseum, nothing including the vaccines are 100% effective.

Most of the anger expressed on these threads are directed to anti-vax influencers, political or otherwise.  I don't think that pointing out their hypocrisy is wrong.  Expressing that is not keeping them from actually getting the healthcare they need.  Hopefully it isn't too little too late because even fame and influence can't guarantee mild symptoms or response to treatment if the symptoms are more severe.

[KSera]

I feel like this thread is predicated on some kind of weird false dichotomy. I haven’t seen anyone saying that Regeneron is bad or that people who get sick shouldn’t have access to it. Quite the opposite. I don’t think there’s an argument here. 

[Pam in CT]

I am grateful for every single tool in the COVID toolkit. Vaccines. Masks. Distancing. Private sector nudges to encourage vaccinations, from $10 gift cards to college fee rebates.  Celebrity nudges like Dolly Parton's and civic organizational nudges like church groups and faith leader nudges like the Pope's. Public policy nudges to encourage vaccinations, from tax incentives to all the above private sector nudges to state lottery awards all the way to, yes, assault rifle raffles, know your audience.  Employer requirements to test and/or vaccinate. Business requirements for patrons to test and/or vaccinate. Travel measures including test/vax criteria for entry/quarantine. Advances in treatment of the sick, from low-cost interventions like patient positioning through to high-cost interventions like Regeneron.  Every.single.tool.

And I am grateful that the former President, and his attorney, and his Secretary of State, and his transition team advisor, and a fairly long list of other allies, have all been able to get access to, and benefit from, a still-scarce promising treatment in their hours of need.

Truly: I am grateful.

And I truly hope that others -- particularly "essential workers" like the health care workers and teachers and meatpackers and agricultural workers and service industry employees -- also get access to this still-scarce promising treatment if and when they need it. I truly hope that access will not be gated by insurance or citizenship or other gating criteria.

And who knows, perhaps this plague will provoke a transformation in how we think about health care, and preventative vs emergency procedures, and where and how costs should be borne between taxpayers & premium payers & private businesses & private pharma/medical device makers/for-profit health networks & individuals. It's possible.

 

In the meantime: I hope Abbott and other individuals who are lucky or connected or wealthy enough to get access to promising experimental treatment recover in full. And, simultaneously: that isn't a solution to the real problem at hand. 

Any more than naloxone is a solution to the opioid epidemic that once upon a time, back in the BeforeTimes, we used to consider a problem.

 

[Spy Car]

6 minutes ago, KSera said:

I feel like this thread is predicated on some kind of weird false dichotomy. I haven’t seen anyone saying that Regeneron is bad or that people who get sick shouldn’t have access to it. Quite the opposite. I don’t think there’s an argument here. 

Standard operating procedure for the thread starter.

Bill

[J-rap]

2 hours ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Beyond the free issue, the thought that the average vaccinated/boostered and asymptomatic person within hours of a positive test could get access this treatment is laughable.  Let alone administered in their home.   

ETA oh and imagine a world where we all had access to daily testing.

I think this same thing every time I hear about a political leader who is more about individual freedoms than requesting people to get vaccines and mask, but who also happen to enjoy daily testing.  And probably testing that comes to them right at their home or office, to make it even easier.

[mathnerd]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

That more than 353 million doses of COVID-19 vaccine had been administered in the U.S. along with more than 4.7 billion doses worldwide without any overwhelming, catastrophic side effects. “Not nearly as many doses of remdesivir have been given or studied in people and its long-term side effects are still unknown,” I said. “Do you still want me to give it to you?”“Yes” he responded, “Whatever it takes to save my life.”

It did not work.

@KSera, Thanks for posting this. I always thought that remdesivir helped the survival rates of extremely ill covid patients, especially the elderly. Perhaps, subconsciously, watching Trump walk away from the hospital (after taking that cocktail of drugs including remdesivir) gave me the idea that there are expensive but effective treatments. Reading this is an eye opener for me - that remdesivir might not always work.

Are there any studies about the effectiveness of remdesivir on hospitalized patients?

Edited August 18, 2021 by mathnerd

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

 

The only proven lifesaver we’ve had in this pandemic is a vaccine that many people don’t want. 

Let's not forget dexamethasone. It's not much touted because .... It's cheap, highly available and well tested?

BBC News - Coronavirus: What is dexamethasone and how does it work?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53077879

 

[wathe]

10 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

@KSera, Thanks for posting this. I always thought that remdesivir helped the survival rates of extremely ill covid patients, especially the elderly. Perhaps, subconsciously, watching Trump walk away from the hospital (after taking that cocktail of drugs including remdesivir) gave me the idea that there are expensive but effective treatments. Reading this is an eye opener for me - that remdesivir might not always work.

Are there any studies about the effectiveness of remdesivir on hospitalized patients?

The Ontario Science Table quotes a 19% reduction in mortality with remdesivir.  They do not quote a reference.  I think it's safe to assume that that's a relative mortality reduction, not absolute.

UpToDate (expensive professional medical information database) summarizes the evidence for remdesivir, with references,  on their "COVID 19: Management in hopistalized adults" page.  I believe that they've continued to provide access to their covid pages for free.

 

[wathe]

2 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Let's not forget dexamethasone. It's not much touted because .... It's cheap, highly available and well tested?

BBC News - Coronavirus: What is dexamethasone and how does it work?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53077879

 

Yes.  But only 15% reduction in mortality.  Nowhere near as effective as vaccination.

[Jean in Newcastle]

4 minutes ago, wathe said:

The Ontario Science Table quotes a 19% reduction in mortality with remdesivir.  They do not quote a reference.  I think it's safe to assume that that's a relative mortality reduction, not absolute.

UpToDate (expensive professional medical information database) summarizes the evidence for remdesivir, with references,  on their "COVID 19: Management in hopistalized adults" page.  I believe that they've continued to provide access to their covid pages for free.

 

So wouldn't the flip side of that be that there is an 80% nonreduction in mortality?  Or doesn't it work that way? 

ETA:  nonreduction in that it doesn't help them.  I am not saying that it hastens their death or makes things worse. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Jean in Newcastle

[Jean in Newcastle]

4 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Let's not forget dexamethasone. It's not much touted because .... It's cheap, highly available and well tested?

BBC News - Coronavirus: What is dexamethasone and how does it work?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53077879

 

It's not a lifesaver in the same way as the vaccine.  The vaccine keeps people out of the hospital and off of those ventilators.  This drug, according to the article you linked, is for those hospitalized patients on ventilators.  And as Wathe pointed out, even with this treatment, many still don't make it. 

[WildflowerMom]

1 hour ago, pinball said:

FYI…regeneron is indicated for vaccinated patients so everyone crying about the costs should consider the shame and guilt they are heaping on those who are vaccinated and now need more care.

I don't understand this.   You have people in your circle who are shaming vaccinated people for getting sick?    

[Laura Corin]

1 minute ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

It's not a lifesaver in the same way as the vaccine.  The vaccine keeps people out of the hospital and off of those ventilators.  This drug, according to the article you linked, is for those hospitalized patients on ventilators.  And as Wathe pointed out, even with this treatment, many still don't make it. 

Indeed. I'm very pro vaccination.  I should have made it clearer that I was contrasting the strange silence over dex. against the hoopla over Regeneron. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Indeed. I'm very pro vaccination.  I should have made it clearer that I was contrasting the strange silence over dex. against the hoopla over Regeneron. 

When I googled this for use in the US, I see it lumped into the general "cortico-steroid" category.  It is recommended, along with others, for the reduction of inflammation.  But Regeneron is used for people with much milder cases, by people who are not intubated and are thus able to ask for it specifically.  And it's used to hopefully keep off of a ventilator where they would presumably be put on a cortico-steroid if the doctor felt that it was appropriate. 

[HeartString]

15 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

I don't understand this.   You have people in your circle who are shaming vaccinated people for getting sick?    

 Not who you asked, but I have unvaccinated/anti vax people in my life blaming vaccinated people for spreading the delta variant.  Shaming them for acting as though the vaccine is 100% and not taking enough precautions to prevent spreading. The unvaccinated are apparently just blameless victims of the vaccinated meanies.  

[KSera]

37 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

@KSera, Thanks for posting this. I always thought that remdesivir helped the survival rates of extremely ill covid patients, especially the elderly. Perhaps, subconsciously, watching Trump walk away from the hospital (after taking that cocktail of drugs including remdesivir) gave me the idea that there are expensive but effective treatments. Reading this is an eye opener for me - that remdesivir might not always work.

I think a lot of people think these drugs that help improve outcomes are a lot more effective than they are. They help, and will save lives, but only for a subset of patients. That's one of the things that frustrates me when people say that vaccines aren't necessary because we have effective treatments. We really don't. I mean, we have treatments that help some people a lot, and save a portion of lives that would otherwise die, but a whole lot of people get treated with these things and still die.

22 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Let's not forget dexamethasone. It's not much touted because .... It's cheap, highly available and well tested?

BBC News - Coronavirus: What is dexamethasone and how does it work?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53077879

 

 

13 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Indeed. I'm very pro vaccination.  I should have made it clearer that I was contrasting the strange silence over dex. against the hoopla over Regeneron. 

I heard a lot about dexamethasone when it was first found to be helpful, and still hear that it is pretty standard for severe cases, but I think it doesn't get a lot of talk in the general public, because it's [usually*] only for use in very ill, hospitalized people, and most people are not ever planning on getting that sick, so it doesn't feel relevant to them.

* I say usually because Trump's treatment was unique in that he was given both Regeneron, which is indicated only early in the course of disease, and dexamthasone, which is indicated only late in the course of the disease. Obviously it worked out well for him.

[Moonhawk]

5 hours ago, pinball said:

 

Since there are lies posted in other threads about this that are allowed to stand unchecked, I thought I’d share.

Regeneron is free, just like vaccines.

It is not indicated for every patient.

 

You make 3 statements here, so to address each:

1- source on ‘lies’? i’m not following the board closely and would like context  

2- regeneron, shown above by others, is bought by the government [with our tax money] (so, not being given for free), and there are other costs associated with it. I suppose since you said “like vaccines” you are drawing a parallel of not-really-free since tax dollars are spent, but that doesn’t seem to be your original intent. Rather, you were stating the end user will pay the same amount regardless of choosing regeneron or the vaccine, and that is not necessarily the case. 

3- True, and the vaccine is indicated for many more people. Not quite all, but certainly more than regneron, and so should be encouraged as the first choice when it’s available and recommended for the particular person as more people are able to benefit. Additionally the vaccine it doesn’t have other factors (like, you know, already being sick) that its use is predicated on.

So regeneron and the vaccine are not similar options, as one is much more restricted in its use, and also its availability, and in many (most?) cases its cost. (Not one of your original statements, but just correlating since you had said “just like vaccines” and i wanted to be clear how it is not similar in multiple other ways also).

2 hours ago, pinball said:

What is the cost of a human life again? 

This is moving the goalposts of your original statement after people pointed out it isn’t actually free. Also, this is an implication that people are objecting to the cost as not worth it, when really they were only pointing out your original statement of no-cost was incorrect. While some have shown its cost to be more than the vaccine, there has been no one questioning its worth when saving a life, besides you with this statement. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 minutes ago, HeartString said:

 Not who you asked, but I have unvaccinated/anti vax people in my life blaming vaccinated people for spreading the delta variant.  Shaming them for acting as though the vaccine is 100% and not taking enough precautions to prevent spreading. The unvaccinated are apparently just blameless victims of the vaccinated meanies.  

What I've heard (fortunately not in person, but online) is that anti-vax people are blaming vaccinated people for "shedding" the vaccine and thus spreading the delta variant.  Stupid.  (yes, that last is my opinion.)

[Faith-manor]

29 minutes ago, HeartString said:

 Not who you asked, but I have unvaccinated/anti vax people in my life blaming vaccinated people for spreading the delta variant.  Shaming them for acting as though the vaccine is 100% and not taking enough precautions to prevent spreading. The unvaccinated are apparently just blameless victims of the vaccinated meanies.  

We have that here in my area.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Faith-manor

[WildflowerMom]

21 minutes ago, HeartString said:

 Not who you asked, but I have unvaccinated/anti vax people in my life blaming vaccinated people for spreading the delta variant.  Shaming them for acting as though the vaccine is 100% and not taking enough precautions to prevent spreading. The unvaccinated are apparently just blameless victims of the vaccinated meanies.  

What in the world?  How do people become some mean and horrible???

[WildflowerMom]

5 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

We have that here too.

Here, as in WTM?  Or here, as in where you live? 

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

What in the world?  How do people become some mean and horrible???

Fear.  They are so afraid of "losing their freedoms" that they've lost their mind instead.