Regeneron

[ktgrok]

6 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Wow.  Irony is dead.

But did it die with covid, or of covid?

(sorry, I'm so tired of the world I've reached slap happy status I think...it's laugh or cry)

[KSera]

3 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Okay, so 9 of them are unvaccinated, 1 is vaccinated. Every single one of them exercised their freedom.

I'm not understanding the point you are trying to make here. They did exercise their freedom. I expect many of them are disappointed with the choice they made at this point. If there wasn't so much disinformation and talking up not getting vaccinated as a way to show you are "free," a whole lot more people would be healthy and alive. I'm not sure how choosing to get sick due to being misled makes people more free, but here we are.

2 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

So which ones in the picture fall in every category? The point is there is no way of knowing. Where's the compassion? Y'all insist you're not proposing holding medical treatments for the unboxed but I'm starting not to believe it

Again confused. I just find it so sad to see we've reached this point. I want them all to get medical treatment. I wish it didn't have to be on the floor of a library 😢. You were the one who asked how many were vaccinated though, not me or anyone else.

29 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

But did it die with covid, or of covid?

(sorry, I'm so tired of the world I've reached slap happy status I think...it's laugh or cry)

I'm definitely at the cry stage this week. Lowest point of the pandemic emotionally for me 😭.

Edited August 19, 2021 by KSera
typo

[Dmmetler]

1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

Well, since statistically only a vanishingly small % of the population has an actual medical reason not to get a Covid vax, I would say probably none of the people in the picture fall into that category.  From a pure probability standpoint.

What are the actual medical contrainidcations to the covid vaccine?  I went a-searching, and this is all I could find (bolding from the article, not me): 
https://www.forbes.com/sites/victoriaforster/2021/08/19/what-are-the-medical-exemptions-for-not-getting-a-covid-19-vaccine/?sh=2e878c144c5b

Whether you agree with them or not, vaccine requirements have arrived and one opinion which seems to be fairly universally held, is that people with genuine medical conditions preventing them from getting vaccinated against Covid-19 should not be subject to these mandates or passports and doing so would be discriminatory. But what are these medical conditions and how many people do they affect? Well, the answer might surprise you:

There are no known medical conditions which absolutely prevent a person from getting a Covid-19 vaccine.

However, as with everything during the pandemic nothing is simple and there are rare circumstances where people should consult with physicians to help them make an informed decision and manage any potential risk. One of these health conditions which is somewhat of a murky gray area is known severe allergies either to previous vaccines or to the first shot of a Covid-19 vaccine and the CDC currently provides guidance on what people with these allergies should do.

 

My kid is attending a school that requires vaccination for all students, faculty, and staff  unless you have a medical waiver. (Private school affiliated with the PCUSA). According to the head of the health center, they are at over 98%, and expect to be over 99% once the folks who have time limited waivers are vsccinated (these are mostly international students who could not get vaccinated until they arrived in the US, so have gotten their first shot and have been quarantined for 2 weeks on campus, and a handful of people who had COVID cases recently enough that they could not complete a 2 shot sequence yet).  

I suspect that is pretty close to the percentage in the adult population who have actual medical reasons to not be vaccinated. 

 

[TechWife]

 

On 8/18/2021 at 3:22 PM, Pam in CT said:

It's really hard to shift a worldview. More so when the surround-sound is exhorting you to hold to the prior. I have empathy.

 

This thread on how community is changing -  what exactly, makes a community a community - reminded me of your comment here, Pam.  
 

 

[mathnerd]

3 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Where's the compassion? Y'all insist you're not proposing holding medical treatments for the unboxed but I'm starting not to believe it

You are the only person in this thread who is voicing this opinion, if you noticed … (eta: I meant that you seem suspicious that others want to withhold treatment for unvaccinated people when no one else on this thread has ever said such a thing. I meant that it sounds like you want to attribute motives when there aren’t any.)

btw, would you please name one or two medical conditions for which a practicing MD would write out a medical exemption document for Covid vaccine? I ask because you always try to insert the plight of this segment of the population into every thread about antivaxxers. I strongly suspect that their numbers are below 1% of the population. That should  make it a nonissue in any discussion of this kind. If you could provide the name of the medical conditions, I would like to research them to see how prevalent they could be.

Edited August 19, 2021 by mathnerd

[AbcdeDooDah]

Yes, I have noticed the echo chamber, thanks for asking.

 

[AbcdeDooDah]

I don't believe a large number of people have medical exemptions. That wasn't the point. The point is every thread turns into finger pointing of the unvaccinated. Every person in that picture could be vaccinated since we're seeing more and more that the vaccine barely touches transmission. Mutations will occur in any host including the vaccinated. The vaccine is not effective for transmission.

[TCB]

4 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Okay, so 9 of them are unvaccinated, 1 is vaccinated. Every single one of them exercised their freedom.

Do I have the freedom to not watch people dying unnecessarily? I do because I can quit my job, but it is hard to feel morally good about doing that and leaving my colleagues to suffer even more because I’m not helping. Honestly take your freedom to do whatever you want, and do whatever you want, but I don’t know if I will ever recover from this completely, and honestly I find your attitude hard to stomach. Why aren’t you using your voice to urge people to do the right thing, and care about their family, and friends, and those around them. It’s not like their actions affect only them, and no one around them. 

[scholastica]

9 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I don't believe a large number of people have medical exemptions. That wasn't the point. The point is every thread turns into finger pointing of the unvaccinated. Every person in that picture could be vaccinated since we're seeing more and more that the vaccine barely touches transmission. Mutations will occur in any host including the vaccinated. The vaccine is not effective for transmission.

But the vaccine reduces transmission, symptoms, severe disease, hospitalization and death. Being unvaccinated does none of the above, and increases the chance of transmission and mutation which in turn leads to vaccine resistant variants and more sick, long term harmed and dead people. So, yeah, there are breakthrough infections and it is possible to transmit it, but being unvaccinated is by far the more dangerous position for both the individual and the rest of the world. 

Edited August 20, 2021 by scholastica

[KSera]

12 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Yes, I have noticed the echo chamber, thanks for asking.

 

What's the echo chamber saying?

6 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

The point is every thread turns into finger pointing of the unvaccinated. Every person in that picture could be vaccinated since we're seeing more and more that the vaccine barely touches transmission. Mutations will occur in any host including the vaccinated. The vaccine is not effective for transmission.

The point of unvaccinated vs vaccinated in this case is that the hospitals would not be full if people weren't being talked out of the vaccine en masse. If the hospitals weren't full, people wouldn't be lying on the floor ill in the public library. Do you agree it's undesirable to have a situation where people that ill are lying on the floor rather than in a hospital bed? What would you like to see happen as far as vaccinations go? Is the current situation of the vaccine being vilified such that people end up hospitalized and dying rather than being vaccinated desirable?

[mathnerd]

5 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I don't believe a large number of people have medical exemptions. That wasn't the point. The point is every thread turns into finger pointing of the unvaccinated. Every person in that picture could be vaccinated since we're seeing more and more that the vaccine barely touches transmission. Mutations will occur in any host including the vaccinated. The vaccine is not effective for transmission.

If 0.5% of the population has a true medical exemption and are not faking it, my expectation is that 99.5% of the population should take the vaccine. If that were the case, there will be no serious illness from Covid. Do you have any evidence to provide that those people are not deliberately unvaccinated? Seeing the numbers in that county, I am willing to say that all the collapsed people are unvaccinated. I am on Reddit and the person who posted that said that her husband who is vaccinated took the treatment there and he is doing better, but his appointment got messed up because of the large number of walk-ins which matches my expectations for how the situation in FL would be.

[AbcdeDooDah]

1 minute ago, TCB said:

Do I have the freedom to not watch people dying unnecessarily? I do because I can quit my job, but it is hard to feel morally good about doing that and leaving my colleagues to suffer even more because I’m not helping. Honestly take your freedom to do whatever you want, and do whatever you want, but I don’t know if I will ever recover from this completely, and honestly I find your attitude hard to stomach. Why aren’t you using your voice to urge people to do the right thing, and care about their family, and friends, and those around them. It’s not like their actions affect only them, and no one around them. 

You have no idea about anything I do other than posts on a message board. I care deeply about people and serve them. I can still notice and discuss on a message board. It's a discussion. 

[TCB]

5 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

You have no idea about anything I do other than posts on a message board. I care deeply about people and serve them. I can still notice and discuss on a message board. It's a discussion. 

Well I’m glad you’re doing good things. My point is that their freedom to do as they please affects so many others. I am not unsympathetic to anyone who is ill and I do my best to help them no matter what their choices. But I think we need to acknowledge that their freedom to choose does impact a number of others, and not just themselves.

[KSera]

7 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I can still notice and discuss on a message board. It's a discussion. 

Is is, but it's precisely discussions like this, equating not being vaccinated with freedom that have led to so many more people being hospitalized and dying than ever needed to be. So unfortunately, it's not a neutral thing.

[AbcdeDooDah]

1 minute ago, TCB said:

Well I’m glad you’re doing good things. My point is that their freedom to do as they please affects so many others. I am not unsympathetic to anyone who is ill and I do my best to help them no matter what their choices. But I think we need to acknowledge that their freedom to choose does impact a number of others, and not just themselves.

Not all the unvaccinated throw all precautions to the wind. Some have decided not to get vaccinated so they protect others with numerous other layers. It's that binary thinking again, because there needs to be a villain. 

[TCB]

3 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

So which ones in the picture fall in every category? The point is there is no way of knowing. Where's the compassion? Y'all insist you're not proposing holding medical treatments for the unboxed but I'm starting not to believe it

I think what people are expressing is horror that it has come to this, sick people lying on the floor of a library.

[AmandaVT]

26 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I don't believe a large number of people have medical exemptions. That wasn't the point. The point is every thread turns into finger pointing of the unvaccinated. Every person in that picture could be vaccinated since we're seeing more and more that the vaccine barely touches transmission. Mutations will occur in any host including the vaccinated. The vaccine is not effective for transmission.

98% of the cases in my state are in unvaccinated patients. The vaccine does a lot more than "barely" touch transmission.

[AbcdeDooDah]

14 minutes ago, KSera said:

Is is, but it's precisely discussions like this, equating not being vaccinated with freedom that have led to so many more people being hospitalized and dying than ever needed to be. So unfortunately, it's not a neutral thing.

I believe it was you that brought up freedom. I pointed out that vaxed and unvaxed both exercised their freedom. Bodily autonomy/ medical decisions is something I will defend. Others only defend it when it is another issue. The fact is, you (general) cannot induce anyone to make a decision for the "public good" when the mantra had been "my body, my choice" all along. I stick by coercion is not consent.

Edited August 20, 2021 by AbcdeDooDah

[Danae]

11 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I believe it was you that brought up freedom. I pointed out that vaxed and unvaxed both exercised their freedom. Bodily autonomy/ medical decisions is something I will defend. Others only defend it when it is another issue. The fact is, you (general) cannot induce anyone to make a decision for the "public good." I stick by coercion is not consent.

I stick by having the right to do something doesn’t make it the right thing to do.

People have the right to be terribly wrong about a lot of things.  They don’t have the right to make everyone else pretend they aren’t making a bad decision. Or to require everyone else to look the other way and pretend that the results of their bad choices aren’t obvious.

Edit to be clear:  I am not blaming people who get sick.  I am calling it a bad choice to refuse to get vaccinated and try to convince others not to get vaccinated, whether the person making the choice gets sick or not.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Danae

[KSera]

5 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Okay, so 9 of them are unvaccinated, 1 is vaccinated. Every single one of them exercised their freedom.

 

5 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I believe it was you that brought up freedom. I pointed out that vaxed and unvaxed both exercised their freedom. Bodily autonomy/ medical decisions is something I will defend. Others only defend it when it is another issue. The fact is, you (general) cannot induce anyone to make a decision for the "public good." I stick by coercion is not consent.

No, it really wasn't. I went back through and read every one of my posts in this thread (12), in case I had forgetten something I had said (always totally possible), and the first mention of freedom was your post above. I was confused in response to your post, because I didn't understand where the leap to freedom came in to the discussion, or how it was relevant.

People absolutely have bodily autonomy. My biggest issue is with the misinformation and with influencers convincing people that they should not be vaccinated, and that they are serving some great purpose by avoiding doing so. It's hurting those same people (and the rest of us), and they don't realize they've been duped until it's too late.

[TCB]

14 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Not all the unvaccinated throw all precautions to the wind. Some have decided not to get vaccinated so they protect others with numerous other layers. It's that binary thinking again, because there needs to be a villain. 

I don’t think of them as villains. It is devastating to watch people die, especially younger ones right now, because they didn’t make a choice that probably could have saved them. The villains are those maliciously spreading false information that is misleading people, so they are making a choice that harms them.

[pinball]

8 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I believe it was you that brought up freedom. I pointed out that vaxed and unvaxed both exercised their freedom. Bodily autonomy/ medical decisions is something I will defend. Others only defend it when it is another issue. The fact is, you (general) cannot induce anyone to make a decision for the "public good" when the mantra had been "my body, my choice" all along. I stick by coercion is not consent.

Freedom is Wrongthink.

[Spy Car]

17 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Not all the unvaccinated throw all precautions to the wind. Some have decided not to get vaccinated so they protect others with numerous other layers. It's that binary thinking again, because there needs to be a villain. 

There actually does not have to be a villain. Unfortunately some people--by their actions--have put themselves squarely in that position.

Bill

[AbcdeDooDah]

8 minutes ago, KSera said:

 

No, it really wasn't. I went back through and read every one of my posts in this thread (12), in case I had forgetten something I had said (always totally possible), and the first mention of freedom was your post above. I was confused in response to your post, because I didn't understand where the leap to freedom came in to the discussion, or how it was relevant.

People absolutely have bodily autonomy. My biggest issue is with the misinformation and with influencers convincing people that they should not be vaccinated, and that they are serving some great purpose by avoiding doing so. It's hurting those same people (and the rest of us), and they don't realize they've been duped until it's too late.

I'm sorry, you're right, it wasn't you that brought it up first. I quoted Mathnerd. 

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by AbcdeDooDah

[Pawz4me]

14 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Not all the unvaccinated throw all precautions to the wind. Some have decided not to get vaccinated so they protect others with numerous other layers. It's that binary thinking again, because there needs to be a villain. 

I know there are unvaccinated people who take precautions. Because I know one -- one! -- such person. OTOH I know 20+ unvaccinated people who are going about their merry lives not masking, not social distancing, not doing anything to prevent spread, and many of those are also spreading all sorts of disinformation, misinformation and outright conspiracy theories. A 1:20 ratio makes it kinda hard to focus on the 1. And while I certainly could be wrong, I'm guessing the experience of lots of others here WRT what unvaccinated people are doing dovetails fairly closely with mine.

[AbcdeDooDah]

9 minutes ago, pinball said:

Freedom is Wrongthink.

Apparently.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I don't believe a large number of people have medical exemptions. That wasn't the point. The point is every thread turns into finger pointing of the unvaccinated. Every person in that picture could be vaccinated since we're seeing more and more that the vaccine barely touches transmission. Mutations will occur in any host including the vaccinated. The vaccine is not effective for transmission.

No, the point was to troll this thread and others by bringing up the “but what about those who have medical exemptions “ red herring. And you’ve just admitted that you don’t believe it yourself. 
 

People are absolutely worried about mutations. But mutations have more time to develop the longer this is going through the population. And a lack of vaccinations is the PRIMARY way that it’s spreading. 

[KSera]

Still no idea why freedom is being offered up as a straw man in this conversation. People have the freedom to make decisions, and discussing the consequences of those decisions does nothing to take away their freedoms. I do wonder how freedom weighs into the equation when the decisions are made on the basis of propaganda. There does come a point where I believe propaganda decreases people’s freedom to make good decisions. I don’t think we’re there in the US, to the point where people have no responsibility for their decisions due to propaganda, since accurate information is still available to them. Certainly in North Korea, propaganda reduces people’s freedom, so clearly at some point it does cross that line. Just thinking out loud on that, since I do think many people who have died would have made the decision to be vaccinated had they not been subjected to the misinformation and propaganda that they were. 

[AbcdeDooDah]

6 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

No, the point was to troll this thread and others by bringing up the “but what about those who have medical exemptions “ red herring. And you’ve just admitted that you don’t believe it yourself. 
 

People are absolutely worried about mutations. But mutations have more time to develop the longer this is going through the population. And a lack of vaccinations is the PRIMARY way that it’s spreading. 

It actually wasn't to troll. It was a question the discussion brought up. If everyone in that picture was vaccinated, it would have been a different conversation. They very  well could be. We don't know. That was the point. A thread on the amazing Regeneron turned into another unvaccinated blame-fest.

Edited August 20, 2021 by AbcdeDooDah

[AbcdeDooDah]

6 minutes ago, KSera said:

Still no idea why freedom is being offered up as a straw man in this conversation. People have the freedom to make decisions, and discussing the consequences of those decisions does nothing to take away their freedoms. I do wonder how freedom weighs into the equation when the decisions are made on the basis of propaganda. There does come a point where I believe propaganda decreases people’s freedom to make good decisions. I don’t think we’re there in the US, to the point where people have no responsibility for their decisions due to propaganda, since accurate information is still available to them. Certainly in North Korea, propaganda reduces people’s freedom, so clearly at some point it does cross that line. Just thinking out loud on that, since I do think many people who have died would have made the decision to be vaccinated had they not been subjected to the misinformation and propaganda that they were. 

Vaccines have been widely available ( to anyone) for 4 months. The deaths in the  almost 18 months before that are the responsibility of another country that actively concealed information.  But it's not okay to say that.

Edited August 20, 2021 by AbcdeDooDah

[KSera]

1 minute ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

If everyone in that picture was vaccinated, it would have been a different conversation.

I still don't think it would be a different conversation in that case (but also know that except in a highly vaccinated community, it's implausible that everyone there would be vaccinated), because the point is that it's hospital overwhelm that means the people who are that ill are unable to be admitted to the hospital, vaccinated or not. That was the whole point of this. It feels a bit like crazy town for anyone to be arguing that this is a totally normal, desirable situation. Much less that it denotes freedom in some way.

[Spryte]

This is about more than those people in the picture.  Whether they were vaccinated or not is irrelevant.  We know that hospitals are overwhelmed right now, we know that the majority of hospitalized patients are unvaccinated, and we know that the vaccine rate in that county is low (was it 30%?). If hospitals were not overwhelmed, opening a treatment facility in a public library wouldn’t be necessary.  Instead, even that overflow facility was overwhelmed, and they didn’t have enough cots and wheelchairs. If hospitals were not overwhelmed to begin with, patients might not have been lying on the library floor, vaccinated or not.
 

 

[AbcdeDooDah]

5 minutes ago, KSera said:

I still don't think it would be a different conversation in that case (but also know that except in a highly vaccinated community, it's implausible that everyone there would be vaccinated), because the point is that it's hospital overwhelm that means the people who are that ill are unable to be admitted to the hospital, vaccinated or not. That was the whole point of this. It feels a bit like crazy town for anyone to be arguing that this is a totally normal, desirable situation. Much less that it denotes freedom in some way.

It feels crazy to hear someone comment on a picture of people in distress, "0h, I bet they're relishing their freedom." That's what prompted  me to comment. This isn't the first time I've been "gatekept" on what I comment. 

Edited August 20, 2021 by AbcdeDooDah

[KSera]

8 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Vaccines have been widely available ( to anyone) for 4 months. The deaths in the  almost 18 months before that are the responsibility of another country that actively concealed information.  But it's not okay to say that.

Another red herring. What does that have to do with any of this? I don't blame this pandemic on China, though I think it's totally possible we could have gotten more information about it sooner to allow us to prepare better if they had been transparent. But, given how poorly we prepared even after we knew, I don't spend much time blaming China for this at this point. That can be sorted out later. But even IF we decided to just agree that China is responsible for all the deaths before vaccination was available, what does that have to do with hospitals being overrun in the US now, when we do have vaccines available, and where the worst overwhelm is happening where even basic mitigation measures like masking in public is not happening?

2 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

It feels crazy to hear someone comment on a picture of people in distress, "0h, I bet they're relishing their freedom." That's what prompted  me to comment. This isn't the first time I've been "gatekept" on what I comment. 

I'm once again not understanding where this freedom comment is coming from. Are you saying someone else said, "Oh, I bet they're relishing their freedom"? You mean someone said that earlier in this thread? I missed that, if so. Perhaps it was in response to the suggestion that at least they were able to exercise their freedom? I also don't see disagreement as gatekeeping. You have pushed back against several of us on this thread, including me. I don't feel gatekept because of it.

[mathnerd]

1 hour ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I don't believe a large number of people have medical exemptions. That wasn't the point. The point is every thread turns into finger pointing of the unvaccinated. Every person in that picture could be vaccinated since we're seeing more and more that the vaccine barely touches transmission. Mutations will occur in any host including the vaccinated. The vaccine is not effective for transmission.

Since the mysterious "medical exemption" excuses keep getting trotted out by you on threads about antivaxxers, and since you don't seem to have any info to provide on it, I went googling for this info. Here it is:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/victoriaforster/2021/08/19/what-are-the-medical-exemptions-for-not-getting-a-covid-19-vaccine/?sh=43b507e044c5

Well, the answer might surprise you:

There are no known medical conditions which absolutely prevent a person from getting a Covid-19 vaccine

“Around 5 in a million people experience what appears to be a severe allergic reaction to the Covid-19 vaccines,” said David Stukus, MD, a Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Allergy and Immunology at Nationwide Children’s Hospital in Columbus, Ohio. 

[AbcdeDooDah]

6 minutes ago, KSera said:

Another red herring. What does that have to do with any of this? I don't blame this pandemic on China, though I think it's totally possible we could have gotten more information about it sooner to allow us to prepare better if they had been transparent. But, given how poorly we prepared even after we knew, I don't spend much time blaming China for this at this point. That can be sorted out later. But even IF we decided to just agree that China is responsible for all the deaths before vaccination was available, what does that have to do with hospitals being overrun in the US now, when we do have vaccines available, and where the worst overwhelm is happening where even basic mitigation measures like masking in public is not happening?

I'm once again not understanding where this freedom comment is coming from. Are you saying someone else said, "Oh, I bet they're relishing their freedom"? You mean someone said that earlier in this thread? I missed that, if so. Perhaps it was in response to the suggestion that at least they were able to exercise their freedom? I also don't see disagreement as gatekeeping. You have pushed back against several of us on this thread, including me. I don't feel gatekept because of it.

Pushback is not the same as telling someone what they should or should not be talking about in a thread.

[ktgrok]

27 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

It actually wasn't to troll. It was a question the discussion brought up. If everyone in that picture was vaccinated, it would have been a different conversation. They very  well could be. We don't know. That was the point. A thread on the amazing Regeneron turned into another unvaccinated blame-fest.

But the reason they are on a library floor lacking basic care is that the hospital and medical system is overwhelmed by unvaccinated people. 

[Stacia]

People do spinoff threads all the time in order to discuss other topics & not derail the original thread.

The trolling & snowflake issues are just tiresome.

[AbcdeDooDah]

1 minute ago, Stacia said:

People do spinoff threads all the time in order to discuss other topics & not derail the original thread.

The trolling & snowflake issues are just tiresome.

So what's your opinion on Regeneron?

[Stacia]

2 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

So what's your opinion on Regeneron?

As if you care what my opinion is. 🙄

At this point, I've mostly been reading the thread. I can still be tired of reading trolling & misdirection toward the posters who are actually trying to discuss Regeneron.

[AbcdeDooDah]

4 minutes ago, Stacia said:

As if you care what my opinion is. 🙄

At this point, I've mostly been reading the thread. I can still be tired of reading trolling & misdirection toward the posters who are actually trying to discuss Regeneron.

I haven't seen discussion of Regeneron since the top of page two. But I'm derailing the thread. 👍

Edited August 20, 2021 by AbcdeDooDah

[Stacia]

3 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I haven't seen discussion of Regeneron since the top of page two. But I'm derailing the thread. 👍

Maybe it's because so many are trying to answer your red herrings?

So, yes.

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I haven't seen discussion of Regeneron since the top of page two. But I'm derailing the thread. 👍

Let's discuss it then. It would be awesome to reach a point where cases are under control enough that anyone who gets a breakthrough infection has the backup plan available to get Regeneron from their doctor or a public health clinic as soon as they test positive (and to have free and easy testing available so they know they are positive). Obviously unvaccinated cases should also have the same plan available, but I don't expect we will reach this plan anytime soon unless enough people are vaccinated that most cases are breakthroughs. I'm looking forward to data on how Regeneron performs among vaccinated people.

[AbcdeDooDah]

4 minutes ago, Stacia said:

Maybe it's because so many are trying to answer your red herrings?

So, yes.

Nah, a quick look at even page 1 would tell you differently. 

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Nah, a quick look at even page 1 would tell you differently. 

You're right. The first red herring of the thread wasn't posted by you 😬. (But other than that, almost the entirety of the first page is related to regeneron, with a brief, but relevant side conversation about remdesivir and dexamethasone.)

[Matryoshka]

2 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I believe it was you that brought up freedom. I pointed out that vaxed and unvaxed both exercised their freedom. Bodily autonomy/ medical decisions is something I will defend. Others only defend it when it is another issue. The fact is, you (general) cannot induce anyone to make a decision for the "public good" when the mantra had been "my body, my choice" all along. I stick by coercion is not consent.

No, YOU were the person who brought up "freedom".  And I do put that in quotation marks.  Because that whole framing you're doing is ridiculous.

If someone CHOOSES to do something that is much more likely to get them killed, let's say, walking on the highway in traffic rather than on the sidewalk, they should then not get in a huff that they have the freedom of choice.  Yeah, but that freedom of choice meant that they have a much greater chance of being taken out by a vehicle than someone on the sidewalk.  Yes, the people on the sidewalk can also be killed by someone who drives up on the sidewalk, but the likelihood is less.  Let's stop pretending that the people who CHOOSE to walk in the street haven't made a STUPID and life-threatening, and not any kind of neutral choice.

Sure, defend their choice to walk in the middle of the street.  But don't pretend it's a neutral choice. 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Matryoshka

[Matryoshka]

41 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

So what's your opinion on Regeneron?

Literally every single person here who has posted an opinion on Regeneron has posted that it's great, but that it's in short supply because of all the unvaxxed people who could have avoided ever needing it.   So stop.  Not one.single.person has posted that it's not lovely that we have it as a treatment.

BUT... If people all got vaxxed, we'd have enough for the more serious breakthrough cases (no one is denying those exist, just that percentage wise they are an order of magnitude or so smaller for those vaxxed than unvaxxed) or for those unicorns who can't get vaxxed for legitimate medical reasons.  But no, all of it is being sucked up by those who didn't bother to get vaxxed and then deny they have Covid till they're so sick that they're on the floor in the fetal position in a community library for a supply of a treatment of which there isn't enough to go around because so many people are NEEDLESSLY ill because they refused to get a safe, effective PREVENTATIVE treatment instead of one that has a LIMITED efficiacy once you're already sick.

[pinball]

First and second times freedom was brought up in thread…

On 8/18/2021 at 1:23 PM, J-rap said:

I think this same thing every time I hear about a political leader who is more about individual freedoms than requesting people to get vaccines and mask, but who also happen to enjoy daily testing.  And probably testing that comes to them right at their home or office, to make it even easier.

 

On 8/18/2021 at 2:59 PM, Jean in Newcastle said:

Fear.  They are so afraid of "losing their freedoms" that they've lost their mind instead.

 

[mathnerd]

2 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

No, YOU were the person who brought up "freedom".  And I do put that in quotation marks.  Because that whole framing you're doing is ridiculous.

If someone CHOOSES to do something that is much more likely to get them killed, let's say, walking on the highway in traffic rather than on the sidewalk, they should then not get in a huff that they have the freedom of choice.  Yeah, but that freedom of choice meant that they have a much greater chance of being taken out by a vehicle than someone on the sidewalk.  Yes, the people on the sidewalk can also be killed by someone who drives up on the sidewalk, but the likelihood is less.  Let's stop pretending that the people who CHOOSE to walk in the street haven't made a STUPID and life-threatening, and not any kind of neutral choice.

Sure, defend their choice to walk in the middle of the street.  But don't pretend it's a neutral choice. 

Something you forgot to mention is that this stupid choice of this guy walking on the freeway during high traffic while endangering the poor people who are driving on the freeway makes them get caught in an accident caused by no fault of theirs (and only due to the stupid choice of one person which they have zero control over) and results in a huge car pileup and several deaths. This is another analogy for the actions of antivaxxers and antimaskers. The picture of the people collapsed and struggling to breathe on the Florida library floor does not help to further the cause of the antivaxxers - so there will be intense trolling, misdirecting, obfuscating and pointing of fingers in an effort to turn the scrutiny away from the fact that people in an antivaxxing state are collapsed on a floor of a public building. To me, the irony is that the woman in the background in pink in that picture IS NOT wearing a mask while helping the other person inside a Covid treatment facility!

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/verify/sick-covid-patients-on-the-ground-waiting-for-monoclonal-therapy/77-165d31f7-fc0d-4654-9add-e8db9d0c0d4b

As for Regeneron's antibody treatment, possible side effects include a sudden allergic reaction called anaphylaxis and IV-related reactions, fever, chills, hives, itching, and skin reddening or blotching which seem to me to be not something to be ignored and there are tons of people counting on this treatment over the vaccines. 

Edited August 20, 2021 by mathnerd

[Frances]

2 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

It actually wasn't to troll. It was a question the discussion brought up. If everyone in that picture was vaccinated, it would have been a different conversation. They very  well could be. We don't know. That was the point. A thread on the amazing Regeneron turned into another unvaccinated blame-fest.

So if not the unvaccinated, then who is to blame for the hospitals being so overwhelmed that a public library is being used to give treatment to people so sick that they are laying on the floor while waiting their turn? 

Do you think the unvaccinated are completely blameless at this point in the pandemic? Do you disagree that their actions are negatively affecting many others at this time?