Invasive hiring process...help NEW HAPPY UPDATE post 1

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I got offered a job at a social service agency providing services for families of children with behavioral, mental, emotional and development disabilities.  Other than salary and the travel, I’d love the job.  I can take the pay cut sort of and accepted it.

But then I get this email from HR stating that they need the following: 

 

1. Schedule Pre Employment/Post Offer Physical Exam

This physical exam is a “work physical”. The provider will be provided the job description of the position that you have been offered. It will include vital signs, vision screening, urine drug screening(please note we do screen for THC) bloodwork and a complete physical examination by a medical provider including an EKG.  The provider will be a Physician, Physician’s Assistant or Nurse Practitioner.  You will need to sign the accompanying forms allowing HR to view the results and your medical records.

....auto documents (-provide car inspection—NYS proof of car inspection as well as the car inspection report) car registration paperwork, insurance limits of liability (at least $100,000/$300,000), etc.

I have to drive to client’s homes but will never be transporting clients anywhere.  I’ve never seen any wanting the actual printed report of my car inspection and I’m sure I threw it out anyway. 

It all feels very invasive, especially the physical.  Especially for a part time position offering $15.75 an hour but requiring a master’s degree. This is a social service agency that’s just started in my area, so I don’t have anyone to really quiz about the company culture.

Or am I way off base? Other social service agencies I’ve worked for only required a drug screen and proof of car insurance. Also, marijuana is legal in my state, but I know as a federal Class 1 drug it can still be screened for. I do have a medical marijuana card, but that’s not something I want everyone knowing, especially an employer. (My current employer has a marijuana policy and it’s not a problem)

 

UPDATE: I emailed and rescinded my acceptance this morning. The hiring manager freaked out on me, so I think I dodged a bullet.

I have a fantastic job offer that I also have to turn down, and I have to figure out how to do it without burning bridges at that company.  I want to apply for some positions there in the fall, but I won’t have affordable childcare this summer. Fortunately next summer, we’ll be living in a county with a fantastic and affordable summer rec program so it won’t be an issue.

adulting is hard.

UPDATE 2:  I called HR of the second job and left a message with the HR person handling my job offer. I explained a little and stated that I hoped to reapply with their company again in the future.

She called me back and said you don’t remember me, but I’ve never forgotten your name.  Apparently eight years ago, I was the paramedic who responded when her toddler son choked on a Lego and cleared his airway. I actually do remember the call and that she had asked for my name.  She never forgot that.
She said look, I really want to help you out. And they offered me a job share at 1/2 time; more money per hour and vacation time even at a part time job.  And when I am living someplace where I have reasonable child care or my kids are older, I can easily go full time.

I immediately accepted. 🙂 🙂 🙂   I will be a family specialist working with therapeutic foster families, birth families and the foster children.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[itsheresomewhere]

It seems invasive to me.  

[SoCal_Bear]

I hate to say it but I had to do a physical like you described above to be a library volunteer. That's right...a volunteer was required to meet the same requirements as an employee.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by calbear

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

Just now, calbear said:

I hate to say it but I had to do a physical like you described above to be a library volunteer. That's right...a volunteer.

 

My yearly firefighter/paramedic physical includes an EKG and standard bloodwork, but considering the job that makes sense. This doesn’t.  And the results aren’t disclosed to my superiors.

[SoCal_Bear]

The reason given was that library volunteers have contact with the public and minors. I was operating a math circle. I also had to do a Live Scan for my fingerprints.

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by calbear

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I do have to do fingerprints and get a justice center clearance, but that doesn’t bother me because it makes sense for the job.  The physical and wanting a copy of my vehicle inspection report seem very weird.  I am wondering if it’s indicative of a company culture I don’t need in my life.

[Drama Llama]

Just now, calbear said:

The reason given was that library volunteers have contact with the public and minors. I was operating a math circle. I also had to do a Live Scan for my fingerprints.

 

Fingerprint, drug screening, TB screening, I could see all that.  But EKG?  How would that protect minors?  What would they be protecting you against?  The trauma of you falling down dead in front of them?  I do not understand.  

[fraidycat]

You're not off base. Something is fishy here. Unless the job requires physical conditioning (like EMT, LEO, heavy laborer, etc.), it feels like a massive overreach for them to ask for some of that information and documentation. I would be researching the legality of the ask & requirement before providing anything.

[Annie G]

The car stuff seems really odd since you’re not transporting anyone. 
‘Are they asking that you allow them to see any of your medical records or just the results of the physical/bloodwork?  
I’d be more comfortable having a physical from my own doctor and having them sign off that I meet the physical requirements for the job. 
This would irritate me. 
 

 

[Katy]

I’m sure it’s screening to prevent workers compensation lawsuits in case you get attacked or in a car wreck.

[SoCal_Bear]

Just now, Katy said:

I’m sure it’s screening to prevent workers compensation lawsuits in case you get attacked or in a car wreck.

I could definitely see that being part of a risk management strategy.

 

[Katy]

1 minute ago, calbear said:

I could definitely see that being part of a risk management strategy.

 

Yeah, I had to do everything but the ekg when I worked for a temp nursing agency when I was in nursing school.  That one mystifies me, but I was 23, so… presumably not in danger of a heart attack and covid induced myocarditis wasn’t yet a thing. 

[Scarlett]

That seems way over the top to me too.  And I don't typically even worry about my privacy much.  But yes, I agree it could be a sign of other things you won't like.

[sassenach]

I have to do a physical for a nursing position, but no EKG. The car stuff seems reasonable for a job that you are driving house to house. Idk, it’s such a different game when an agency is sending people into homes. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

2 minutes ago, sassenach said:

I have to do a physical for a nursing position, but no EKG. The car stuff seems reasonable for a job that you are driving house to house. Idk, it’s such a different game when an agency is sending people into homes. 

That’s true.  

My husband thinks I’m picking up sketchy vibes unconsciously and this just brought them to light.  The hiring manager wanted an immediate verbal response when she gave me the offer over the phone and I said yes, because I’ve done this same job for another agency before and loved it(till they lost the grant). Now I’m rethinking that, but I honestly can’t really put my finger on why other than this.   

[Katy]

1 minute ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

That’s true.  

My husband thinks I’m picking up sketchy vibes unconsciously and this just brought them to light.  The hiring manager wanted an immediate verbal response when she gave me the offer over the phone and I said yes, because I’ve done this same job for another agency before and loved it(till they lost the grant). Now I’m rethinking that, but I honestly can’t really put my finger on why other than this.   

Immediate answer?  That is weird. I’d probably give it an chance anyway, and assume that it was a hiccup of a brand new agency.

[TravelingChris]

28 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I got offered a job at a social service agency providing services for families of children with behavioral, mental, emotional and development disabilities.  Other than salary and the travel, I’d love the job.  I can take the pay cut sort of and accepted it.

But then I get this email from HR stating that they need the following: 

 

1. Schedule Pre Employment/Post Offer Physical Exam

This physical exam is a “work physical”. The provider will be provided the job description of the position that you have been offered. It will include vital signs, vision screening, urine drug screening(please note we do screen for THC) bloodwork and a complete physical examination by a medical provider including an EKG.  The provider will be a Physician, Physician’s Assistant or Nurse Practitioner.  You will need to sign the accompanying forms allowing HR to view the results and your medical records.

....auto documents (-provide car inspection—NYS proof of car inspection as well as the car inspection report) car registration paperwork, insurance limits of liability (at least $100,000/$300,000), etc.

I have to drive to client’s homes but will never be transporting clients anywhere.  I’ve never seen any wanting the actual printed report of my car inspection and I’m sure I threw it out anyway. 

It all feels very invasive, especially the physical.  Especially for a part time position offering $15.75 an hour but requiring a master’s degree. This is a social service agency that’s just started in my area, so I don’t have anyone to really quiz about the company culture.

Or am I way off base? Other social service agencies I’ve worked for only required a drug screen and proof of car insurance. Also, marijuana is legal in my state, but I know as a federal Class 1 drug it can still be screened for. I do have a medical marijuana card, but that’s not something I want everyone knowing, especially an employer. (My current employer has a marijuana policy and it’s not a problem)

So they are not offering health insurance or life insurance?  

The whole deal with a physical and seeing your medical records to decide whether you will be employed seems like a violation of ADA. Yes,  drug screens are super common in employment but I have never heard of a physical and medical records to be required as a condition of employment.  

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

3 minutes ago, Katy said:

Immediate answer?  That is weird. I’d probably give it an chance anyway, and assume that it was a hiccup of a brand new agency.

The agency itself has been around a hundred years. They are just starting to provide services in my area. The hiring manager has been doing this at least ten years according to LinkedIn. 

No benefits for part time positions.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Katy]

Just now, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

The agency itself has been around a hundred years. They are just starting to provide services in my area. The hiring manager has been doing this at least ten years according to LinkedIn. 

Ok, yeah, that would squick me out a little too. Not enough to not take the job maybe…. 

[sassenach]

11 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

That’s true.  

My husband thinks I’m picking up sketchy vibes unconsciously and this just brought them to light.  The hiring manager wanted an immediate verbal response when she gave me the offer over the phone and I said yes, because I’ve done this same job for another agency before and loved it(till they lost the grant). Now I’m rethinking that, but I honestly can’t really put my finger on why other than this.   

I would listen to your spidey senses. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

7 minutes ago, sassenach said:

I would listen to your spidey senses. 

If I think about it, it’s the spidey senses bothering me more than anything.  I just honestly can’t put my finger on it.

[Toocrazy!!]

I’d say these are all insurance motivated requirements. The physical does seem a little much, but they are trying to verify you are physically capable of doing a job. Perhaps there will be lifting of children? Also, for termination purposes, if they have a strict physical fitness requirement you can no longer fulfill, it lessens their risk from letting you go or moving you into another job description.

Since you are driving as part of the job, they want to make sure your car is safe and legal and covered, In case there could be contested insurance claims if anything happens while you’re at work. 
 

whether or not they are required or just instructed by their insurance company would determine how strictly they make you comply. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I have Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, and not a lot of people in my real life know that.  I also have low vision in one eye from EDS and brittle cornea syndrome, though I’m fine to drive. This job is a family specialist and I won’t be picking up kids or doing anything physically taxing. I am also taking mood stabilizers and psych meds, and I’m uncomfortable with an employer knowing all of this.

IRL I am very private about my medical history, and I think that’s what’s really bothering me here is that disclosure they want me to sign.  

Edited May 6, 2021 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Catwoman]

I guess it all comes down to how much you want the job. 

Are you having doubts about the job itself, or just about these unexpected requirements?

[hippymamato3]

I'd probably pass. I hate things that are super invasive, and this feels icky to me.

[Random]

It seems unreasonable from an employee perspective, but reasonable from risk management perspective. 

A few specific thoughts: If you're using your personal vehicle on company time, I can see where inspections and insurance proofs would be requested.  They likely have a policy regarding at what point you're on the clock and off that is specified, with regard to workman's comp insurance (or whatever it's called for you).  For instance, you're driving to work in the morning and have an accident or driving between clients or driving home from a client and have an accident.  Do you use the company's insurance policy or your own?  If they are essentially insuring your vehicle, they probably feel like they have a right to an inspection as well as proof of insurance.

The medical seems like too much for the position you'd have.  Maybe it is a company-wide onboarding process for everyone they that are too lazy to modify when unnecessary.  Some companies want this info so they can badger you in to better health so they pay lower insurance premiums.  Sometimes the reasons are more altruistic.  Who knows?  They are probably contracted with specific providers they've vetted and won't accept an exam from someone else. 

Either way, this is a good barometer of the company culture.

[Toocrazy!!]

I can totally see your point with the medical exam. It’s giving up a lot of privacy. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

8 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I guess it all comes down to how much you want the job. 

Are you having doubts about the job itself, or just about these unexpected requirements?

I don’t know.

I interviewed in early March and accepted the position two weeks later(it’s taken all this time to get my fingerprints before they’d move to the next step).  At that time they told me that it was expected to be 100% virtual for another year with maybe some socially distanced home visits over the summer(outside).  Also, they said it was 20 hours a week but flexible, I could work it around my schedule. Right now I live about 25 minutes from the office. Then a house unexpectedly came on the market that we loved and we bought it.  That house will put me 45 minutes away from the office. I contacted the hiring manager and was assured no one was going into the office.

Now NY is opening up so they’ve decided to open the office.  And want me there five days a week for 4 hours a day.  That feels like too much with a 45 minute one way drive. It’s not a bait and switch, and it’s not on them that I bought a house farther away.  So while I’d love this job; I’m starting to feel like it may be more hassle than it’s worth, especially since if I wait till fall I can easily find a similar and probably better paying job closer to my new house.  However there is a great deal of growth potential in this job and and I’ve done it before, so I know that I enjoy it. And it would make me feel like I was using my master’s degree.

They are not insuring my vehicle. I will have no company insurance, either auto or health.

My husband pointed out that the hiring manager has called me daily for three weeks too, usually about nothing important. He thinks that’s a bad sign too.

[hippymamato3]

Do you use your medical marijuana card? If so, will you even pass the health exam? If not, I would just turn it down and move on. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

1 minute ago, hippymamato3 said:

Do you use your medical marijuana card? If so, will you even pass the health exam? If not, I would just turn it down and move on. 

Very rarely; but I had surgery on 4/21 and used THC gummies after the first 24 hours instead of the opiates I was prescribed.  I used them for about a week and a half, i think. They want the physical next week and I truly have no idea how long it lasts in my system.  My current employer’s policy is no alcohol or marijuana use within 12 hours of the start of shift.

The state hasn’t figured out guidelines for pre-employment screens since legalizing it. So I really have no idea.

[hippymamato3]

1 minute ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Very rarely; but I had surgery on 4/21 and used THC gummies after the first 24 hours instead of the opiates I was prescribed.  I used them for about a week and a half, i think. They want the physical next week and I truly have no idea how long it lasts in my system.  My current employer’s policy is no alcohol or marijuana use within 12 hours of the start of shift.

The state hasn’t figured out guidelines for pre-employment screens since legalizing it. So I really have no idea.

With infrequent use it would likely be out of your system in 24 hours. With constant daily use, 30 days. I would imagine a small amount might show up if you used for a week and a half, but gummies tend to be pretty low-THC.

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Very rarely; but I had surgery on 4/21 and used THC gummies after the first 24 hours instead of the opiates I was prescribed.  I used them for about a week and a half, i think. They want the physical next week and I truly have no idea how long it lasts in my system.  My current employer’s policy is no alcohol or marijuana use within 12 hours of the start of shift.

The state hasn’t figured out guidelines for pre-employment screens since legalizing it. So I really have no idea.

If you’re driving for the job they probably won’t allow any positive at all.

[TechWife]

Legally, they can require a pre employment physical once they extend a job offer that is conditional upon you passing one. 
 

Here is the info:

https://www.eeoc.gov/pre-employment-inquiries-and-medical-questions-examinations
 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

13 minutes ago, Katy said:

If you’re driving for the job they probably won’t allow any positive at all.

I don’t have a problem disclosing it; it’s prescribed and I only use it as prescribed in the correct dosage.  But it would make sense to me that they don’t want it in your system at all.  I use it for significant connective tissue pain(I sublux frequently) but only when necessary.  My other option is narcotics which I don’t want. 
I am going to email HR and ask specifically about this. That mat be my answer.

My other option is to stay at my job, work with DH, make twice the amount I’d be making at this job, and work two 24 hour shifts a week, which would give me time to write the homeschool curriculum I want to write and work on my MFA and be home with my kids. DH thinks this is a much better idea, but I wouldn’t be using the degree I worked really hard for, and that makes me a little sad. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[MooCow]

If I was in your situation, I would turn down the job. You are ignoring clear signs that something is off at this new place. Listen to it. I know for me it's really hard to wait..... patience is not one of my virtues. When I listen ,I've always been relieved and just thank God. I'm praying for you.

[itsheresomewhere]

Listen to your gut.  We had an agency here who had some red flags to a few employees but not enough to bother some.  With some odd conditions for employment. DS’s old therapist applied and got a position there quickly but kept sensing was off and left after a couple of months. They were in the end busted for fraud and some other stuff.  

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

13 minutes ago, MooCow said:

If I was in your situation, I would turn down the job. You are ignoring clear signs that something is off at this new place. Listen to it. I know for me it's really hard to wait..... patience is not one of my virtues. When I listen ,I've always been relieved and just thank God. I'm praying for you.

This is almost word for word what my husband just said to me five minutes ago lol.

[Faith-manor]

Well, first off I would not personally take the job for that pay with the requirement of a master's degree. The job I am just leaving has been $25 an hour on bachelor's degree and is a little low for what I do, but community arts programs just so not pay well and everyone knows that going in.

I would then not be willing to relinquish that level of privacy for such low pay. Not enough benefit to be worth the risk in my book.

Follow that up with a manager who contacts you repeatedly about nothing even though the job has not actually started would be a hard no. I would worry about work life balance with a manager like that.

[Tap]

The times I needed a physical for a job were to show we didn't have a pre-existing condition like a serious back injury (could prevent sitting, standing or lifting) and to show we were in general good health. Drug screens are obvious. An EKG could be due to a previous lawsuit saying the job led to a heart attack or stroke. The physical will have a pre-existing condition checklist and if you don't admit a previous injury/condition on it, you can be blocked if you try to file a workmans comp claim in the future.  Health insurance companies have been known to require a physical to get a lower rate. 

I have had 3 jobs that required physicals. 1 that was as an office personnel, and 2 for pharmacy. DH has had a physical for sales and management positions. 

[sassenach]

Of all the things you’ve said, the manager calling every day for 3 weeks would be my deal breaker. I wouldn’t deal with that crazy for $15 an hour. 

[fairfarmhand]

Let this one pass, and do what your husband suggested. 

 

You said it makes you sad you won't be using your degree....I'll add to that statement "RIGHT NOW." 

Right now, you're not using the degree. But you will have it in your pocket for when the right position opens up and this one doesn't sound at all like the right position for you.

[Hilltopmom]

When I worked providing in home special education services and also as a foster parent, we did have to provide yearly physical results. No car info though, other than that we did have a reliable car to get to each house.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I just have to figure out how to rescind my job acceptance. I was offered a full time job at $21 an hour today, and while still less than what I make currently; it’s a good company and has an excellent company culture reputation. I think if I decide to take another job, it will be that one.  I’m honestly not sure if it’s worth the money I’m going to pay in childcare though just to get a job that makes me feel good about myself.  Any of these jobs are going to mean I’m paying more in childcare than I’m bringing home.  

Edited May 7, 2021 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Robin M]

Glad you aren't accepting the job. The complete physical exam with ekg would have made sense if you were getting life insurance, but otherwise no.  

If you going to end up paying more in childcare than what you bring home, then I hope it is a great job you really really want and will love.  Have you considered maybe starting your own business?  Or if you don't actually need to help support the family monetarily, perhaps volunteering, doing something fun and will make you happy. 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Robin M

[Storygirl]

Because the new job offer is for a full-time position, I think you have an easy reason to rescind your acceptance of the first job. Not that it will be easy to tell them. But, even though they will be disappointed, an employer should understand that someone would need to accept a full-time job offer with higher pay, over a part-time offer with lower pay.

[Harriet Vane]

On 5/6/2021 at 5:57 PM, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I have Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, and not a lot of people in my real life know that.  I also have low vision in one eye from EDS and brittle cornea syndrome, though I’m fine to drive. This job is a family specialist and I won’t be picking up kids or doing anything physically taxing. I am also taking mood stabilizers and psych meds, and I’m uncomfortable with an employer knowing all of this.

IRL I am very private about my medical history, and I think that’s what’s really bothering me here is that disclosure they want me to sign.  

I have a complicated body too. (EDS with the usual weird complications.) I encourage you to protect your privacy.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

Update in post 1

[kbutton]

On 5/6/2021 at 4:57 PM, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

UPDATE: I emailed and rescinded my acceptance this morning. The hiring manager freaked out on me, so I think I dodged a bullet.

I have a fantastic job offer that I also have to turn down, and I have to figure out how to do it without burning bridges at that company.  I want to apply for some positions there in the fall, but I won’t have affordable childcare this summer. Fortunately next summer, we’ll be living in a county with a fantastic and affordable summer rec program so it won’t be an issue.

adulting is hard.

I am sorry there is a better job you have to turn down! Hopefully they will understand about the childcare and consider you for future offers.

[Faith-manor]

On 5/6/2021 at 4:57 PM, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I got offered a job at a social service agency providing services for families of children with behavioral, mental, emotional and development disabilities.  Other than salary and the travel, I’d love the job.  I can take the pay cut sort of and accepted it.

But then I get this email from HR stating that they need the following: 

 

1. Schedule Pre Employment/Post Offer Physical Exam

This physical exam is a “work physical”. The provider will be provided the job description of the position that you have been offered. It will include vital signs, vision screening, urine drug screening(please note we do screen for THC) bloodwork and a complete physical examination by a medical provider including an EKG.  The provider will be a Physician, Physician’s Assistant or Nurse Practitioner.  You will need to sign the accompanying forms allowing HR to view the results and your medical records.

....auto documents (-provide car inspection—NYS proof of car inspection as well as the car inspection report) car registration paperwork, insurance limits of liability (at least $100,000/$300,000), etc.

I have to drive to client’s homes but will never be transporting clients anywhere.  I’ve never seen any wanting the actual printed report of my car inspection and I’m sure I threw it out anyway. 

It all feels very invasive, especially the physical.  Especially for a part time position offering $15.75 an hour but requiring a master’s degree. This is a social service agency that’s just started in my area, so I don’t have anyone to really quiz about the company culture.

Or am I way off base? Other social service agencies I’ve worked for only required a drug screen and proof of car insurance. Also, marijuana is legal in my state, but I know as a federal Class 1 drug it can still be screened for. I do have a medical marijuana card, but that’s not something I want everyone knowing, especially an employer. (My current employer has a marijuana policy and it’s not a problem)

 

UPDATE: I emailed and rescinded my acceptance this morning. The hiring manager freaked out on me, so I think I dodged a bullet.

I have a fantastic job offer that I also have to turn down, and I have to figure out how to do it without burning bridges at that company.  I want to apply for some positions there in the fall, but I won’t have affordable childcare this summer. Fortunately next summer, we’ll be living in a county with a fantastic and affordable summer rec program so it won’t be an issue.

adulting is hard.

Maybe just say that. Say that you would love to take the job and want to.keep the door open, but you are in the process of moving, and until you are settled, won't have childcare. I think that if they are interested in having you on their team, they may be willing to hold a position for you until fall. It can't hurt, and being vague might be off putting to them.

[alisoncooks]

Yikes. You definitely dodged a bullet. 

For sure, let the new company know the childcare situation and ask to be kept in consideration if the position isn't filled at the end of the summer.