The Vaccine Thread

[Terabith]

Okay, off topic question, but how do you guys post links that contain helpful headlines rather than just long urls?  This has been bugging me for YEARS now, and I cannot figure out how to do it!

[Corraleno]

11 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Okay, off topic question, but how do you guys post links that contain helpful headlines rather than just long urls?  This has been bugging me for YEARS now, and I cannot figure out how to do it!

Type the headline, highlight it, then click the "link" button and paste the actual URL in the box that pops up. That will turn whatever you highlighted into a live link.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Corraleno
add screenshot

[Terabith]

Okay.  Testing this out:  

Zebras On the Loose Can Thrive in Cold Weather

[mommyoffive]

23 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Okay.  Testing this out:  

Zebras On the Loose Can Thrive in Cold Weather

works!

[Ausmumof3]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2785009?guestAccessKey=9888910b-0daf-4d31-a45c-95f9608cfae9&utm_source=silverchair&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=article_alert-jama&utm_content=olf&utm_term=100721
 

Possible association with a small increase in GBS following Janssen vaccine.

[Ausmumof3]

8 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Pfizer seeks FDA authorization of Covid-19 vaccine for children ages 5 to 11 - CNN

 

Pfizer and BioNTech said Thursday they are seeking US Food and Drug Administration emergency use authorization from for their Covid-19 vaccine for children ages 5 to 11.

If authorized, this would be the first Covid-19 vaccine for younger children. The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is approved for people age 16 and older and has an EUA for people ages 12 to 15.

Last month, Pfizer released details of a Phase 2/3 trial that showed its Covid-19 vaccine was safe and generated a "robust" antibody response in children ages 5 to 11. The trial included 2,268 participants ages 5 to 11 and used a two-dose regimen of the vaccine administered 21 days apart. This trial used a 10-microgram dose -- smaller than the 30-microgram dose that has been used for those 12 and older.

Participants' immune responses were measured by looking at neutralizing antibody levels in their blood and comparing those levels to a control group of 16- to 25-year-olds who were given a two-dose regimen with the larger 30-microgram dose. Pfizer said the levels compared well with older people who received the larger dose, demonstrating a "strong immune response in this cohort of children one month after the second dose."

Pfizer began submitting its data on the vaccine for younger children to the FDA late last month, but had not formally requested authorization until now.

FDA officials had said that once vaccine data for younger children was submitted, the agency could authorize a vaccine for younger children in a matter of weeks -- not months -- but it would depend on the timing and quality of the data provided.

In anticipation of the request, the FDA last week scheduled a meeting of its Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee to discuss the vaccine in children ages 5 to 11 on October 26. If the FDA OKs it, a panel of CDC vaccine advisers will meet to consider whether to recommend its use.

"We know from our vast experience with other pediatric vaccines that children are not small adults, and we will conduct a comprehensive evaluation of clinical trial data submitted in support of the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine used in a younger pediatric population, which may need a different dosage or formulation from that used in an older pediatric population or adults," Acting FDA Commissioner Dr. Janet Woodcock said in a statement about the October 26 meeting.

We are opening from Christmas at this stage.  I am desperately hoping something is available for my youngest before then.

[mommyoffive]

In Israel, Being Fully Vaccinated Now Means Three Shots - WSJ

TEL AVIV—Israel is upping the vaccine ante, pressing citizens to get Covid-19 booster shots and saying those who don’t will face restrictions on traveling, dining out and other activities.

Holders of Israel’s vaccine passports must get a third dose of the Pfizer -BioNTech vaccine within six months of their second dose, or lose the so-called green pass that allows them more freedom.

“We are updating what it means to be vaccinated,” said Israel’s coronavirus czar, Salman Zarka, at a press conference Sunday unveiling the new policy.

A study released by the Israeli health ministry on Sunday found that within 12 days, recipients of a third shot were around 10% as likely to become severely ill as people who had received their second dose five months earlier, and about 9% as likely to have been infected.

Israeli health officials say they don’t know whether additional boosters, beyond the third dose, will be needed. But they are moving aggressively to get as many people as possible vaccinated with a third shot, as the more contagious Delta variant of the virus spreads. All Israelis over the age of 12 are now eligible to receive a booster if five months have passed since their second shot.

Other countries with widespread vaccination programs are expected to authorize booster shots in the coming months. U.S. regulators are likely to approve in mid-September a Covid-19 booster shot of those manufactured by Pfizer Inc. and partner BioNTech SE, Moderna Inc. and Johnson & Johnson, for vaccinated adults six months after their previous dose, rather than the eight-month gap previously announced, The Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.

After meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett in the White House on Friday, President Biden said he would also consider lowering the timeline for Americans to five months after the second shot.

Pfizer and the two other companies whose vaccines have been authorized by U.S. federal regulators say booster shots are shown to increase protection against the risk of infection and illness from the coronavirus.

[kbutton]

Article about risk of Covid with pregnancy. It seems to have a cornucopia of interesting but not related facts in it, and I am wondering if anyone knows what they might be meaning when they say that there is a 70% increase in the risk of death with Covid in pregnancy. 

Quote

Some of the increased risks during pregnancy include pre-term delivery, NICU admission rates, infant mortality and severe disease, said Dr. Kamilah Dixon-Shambley, assistant professor of OB-GYN at The Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center.

“You have a two-fold risk of being admitted into an intensive care unit,” she said. “There is a 70% increased risk of death when you have COVID-19 and you’re pregnant. And that number alone is terrifying for those of us who take care of pregnant people in Ohio.”

Dixon-Shambley noted pregnancy takes patients who are healthy and considered a low-risk of COVID puts them in the high-risk category.

70% increase over...

Pregnant women without Covid?

Pregnant women before Covid (as in typical mortality rate pre-2020)?

Pregnant women compared to everyone else?

Does the article say what it's based on, and I missed it? Someone is taking the very few numbers in this article and saying the 70% must be incorrect based on the other numbers, but the other numbers aren't given as how they calculated this risk. They're given more as filler. I think the article is just poorly written, but I could be missing something. 

[mommyoffive]

More people are getting Covid-19 vaccine boosters than first shots (msn.com)

[Syllieann]

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

Article about risk of Covid with pregnancy. It seems to have a cornucopia of interesting but not related facts in it, and I am wondering if anyone knows what they might be meaning when they say that there is a 70% increase in the risk of death with Covid in pregnancy. 

70% increase over...

Pregnant women without Covid?

Pregnant women before Covid (as in typical mortality rate pre-2020)?

Pregnant women compared to everyone else?

Does the article say what it's based on, and I missed it? Someone is taking the very few numbers in this article and saying the 70% must be incorrect based on the other numbers, but the other numbers aren't given as how they calculated this risk. They're given more as filler. I think the article is just poorly written, but I could be missing something. 

I believe they mean compared to someone who gets covid but isn't pregnant.  I'm basing this on other things I've read, not the article itself.

[KSera]

7 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

I believe they mean compared to someone who gets covid but isn't pregnant.  I'm basing this on other things I've read, not the article itself.

I was going to say the same, based on other things I've read recently on Covid in pregnancy.

[kbutton]

18 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

I believe they mean compared to someone who gets covid but isn't pregnant.  I'm basing this on other things I've read, not the article itself.

That sounds reasonable, but someone says the various numbers in the article don't work out--the person arguing isn't really saying which comparison they think the article makes. However, the articles doesn't give the numbers used for the 70% increased risk statistic, and the other numbers are just sort of thrown out there in the article in a disconnected way.

Quote

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported last week 22 deaths among pregnant patients in August, with a total of 161 deaths through the pandemic as of Sept. 27.

There have also been more than 125,000 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in pregnant people and 22,000 hospitalizations. Of those hospitalized, 97% were unvaccinated.

161/125,000 equals a really tiny percentage of deaths. Someone has said that this is smaller death rate than in the general population.

I also found this: https://emergency.cdc.gov/han/2021/han00453.asp It looks like the numbers in the article as well as the 70% statistic are both from this article. 

Quote

Although the absolute risk is low, compared with non-pregnant symptomatic people, symptomatic pregnant people have more than a two-fold increased risk of requiring ICU admission, invasive ventilation, and ECMO, and a 70% increased risk of death.6 

The footnote (6) points to this report: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6944e3.htm 

Quote

Thirty-four deaths (1.5 per 1,000 cases) were reported among 23,434 symptomatic pregnant women, and 447 (1.2 per 1,000 cases) were reported among 386,028 nonpregnant women, reflecting a 70% increased risk for death associated with pregnancy (aRR = 1.7; 95% CI = 1.2–2.4).

It looks like these numbers are in the report, and the other numbers are not. 

[Laura Corin]

Information on likelihood of reinfection in people who were previously infected then were fully vaccinated (AZ or Pfizer).  From the Zoe project.  No broken out information on elderly people or people with reduced immune response.  They also don't know how long the protection will last:  Minute 15 here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoGqyFUoUSw

[Dmmetler]

One thing that I'm seeing on my HELLP research group is that perinatologists are also seeing more women with active, but not severe, COVID infection And COVID in the first trimester that resolves presenting with HELLP in the 2nd trimester. It's still in the "anecdotes aren't data" stage, because it's a rare situation to start with, and mortality is high enough that it's hard to say if COVID is increasing it (if you have 3 in a year vs 2, is that COVID or coincidence?). There is also a correlation with HELLP symptoms, like elevated liver enzymes and liver swelling, recurring in women who have a history of HELLP and catch COVID, but again,it's an "anecdotes aren't data" situation.

 

The other thing is that hospital overwhelm is going to contribute to maternal mortality, too. Many pregnancy complications require really rapid medical response, and a delay can easily be fatal. 

[Longtime Lurker]

1 hour ago, Dmmetler said:

There is also a correlation with HELLP symptoms, like elevated liver enzymes and liver swelling, recurring in women who have a history of HELLP and catch COVID, 

I will add this to the (already long) list of reasons I don't want to catch COVID 😞

[Dmmetler]

2 minutes ago, Longtime Lurker said:

I will add this to the (already long) list of reasons I don't want to catch COVID 😞

Me, too! The idea is absolutely terrifying. 

 

[RootAnn]

1 hour ago, Dmmetler said:

 And COVID in the first trimester that resolves presenting with HELLP in the 2nd trimester. .... There is also a correlation with HELLP symptoms, like elevated liver enzymes and liver swelling, recurring in women who have a history of HELLP and catch COVID, but again,it's an "anecdotes aren't data" situation.

You may not know this,but asking in case you do:  is this without vaccine, even with vaccine, despite full vaccination, only in one or the other, or that info isn't being shared?

[Dmmetler]

48 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

You may not know this,but asking in case you do:  is this without vaccine, even with vaccine, despite full vaccination, only in one or the other, or that info isn't being shared?

Unvaccinated for sure, not sure whether breakthroughs have the same effects or not. The people I know personally reporting resurgent symptoms (as opposed to researchers) were before vaccination was available. Presumably they're collecting that information. 

[SKL]

14 hours ago, kbutton said:

That sounds reasonable, but someone says the various numbers in the article don't work out--the person arguing isn't really saying which comparison they think the article makes. However, the articles doesn't give the numbers used for the 70% increased risk statistic, and the other numbers are just sort of thrown out there in the article in a disconnected way.

161/125,000 equals a really tiny percentage of deaths. Someone has said that this is smaller death rate than in the general population.

I also found this: https://emergency.cdc.gov/han/2021/han00453.asp It looks like the numbers in the article as well as the 70% statistic are both from this article. 

The footnote (6) points to this report: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6944e3.htm 

It looks like these numbers are in the report, and the other numbers are not. 

Did they adjust for the fact that some pregnant women die regardless of Covid?  Did they compare within age groups or overall?

[mommyoffive]

CDC vaccine advisers schedule meetings to discuss booster shots, vaccines for kids - CNN

 

"Additionally, ACIP will meet on Tuesday and Wednesday November 2-3 to discuss pediatric COVID-19 vaccination."

That means it's unlikely children 11 and younger in the US will be able to begin vaccination before Halloween.

Edited October 8, 2021 by mommyoffive

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, SKL said:

Did they adjust for the fact that some pregnant women die regardless of Covid?  Did they compare within age groups or overall?

I didn't look once I found the source. It's clear that the person trying to crunch numbers was not going to be able to since they don't all come from the same report. I wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something. 

[Not_a_Number]

2 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

CDC vaccine advisers schedule meetings to discuss booster shots, vaccines for kids - CNN

 

"Additionally, ACIP will meet on Tuesday and Wednesday November 2-3 to discuss pediatric COVID-19 vaccination."

That means it's unlikely children 11 and younger in the US will be able to begin vaccination before Halloween.

Grrrr.

[mommyoffive]

Vaccinated Americans Are Fed Up, and Fighting Back (msn.com)

[KSera]

Numbers of booster shots being given each day is now more than 1st or 2nd shots being given (unfortunately): https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/covid-19-booster-shots-now-surpassing-initial-vaccination-doses-nearly-n1281033

[AmandaVT]

My vaccine got its first (that I know of) real test last week. My coworker who shares an office with me, tested positive for covid last week. We are generally masked, but there are definitely times during the day when we're alone in the office that we take mask breaks or are eating. A few days before she tested positive, we were munching on chips and salsa and making lesson plans together (unmasked). She has a breakthrough case and I got tested this week. My test came back negative yesterday. Between the vaccine, the air purifier in our room, and limiting mask-less time, I am very thankful. 

We are fairly confident when/where she was exposed - she's a very cautious person and has been socializing almost 100% outdoors and with only vaccinated people. She had one 20 min window the week before she got sick when she could have been exposed. 

So far this year, our school has had a number of cases - way more than last year when I think we had one. But there has yet to be any spread in school, which tells me that masks, even worn imperfectly, are doing an amazing job. We had 6 kids get sick from a birthday party, but there was no post-birthday, pre-remote learning spread in the school. We had to move 2 different grades remote last week for a similar situation and so far there have been no additional positive cases from school. Anecdotal, but it's a relief for me working in a school.

[mommyoffive]

2 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

My vaccine got its first (that I know of) real test last week. My coworker who shares an office with me, tested positive for covid last week. We are generally masked, but there are definitely times during the day when we're alone in the office that we take mask breaks or are eating. A few days before she tested positive, we were munching on chips and salsa and making lesson plans together (unmasked). She has a breakthrough case and I got tested this week. My test came back negative yesterday. Between the vaccine, the air purifier in our room, and limiting mask-less time, I am very thankful. 

We are fairly confident when/where she was exposed - she's a very cautious person and has been socializing almost 100% outdoors and with only vaccinated people. She had one 20 min window the week before she got sick when she could have been exposed. 

So far this year, our school has had a number of cases - way more than last year when I think we had one. But there has yet to be any spread in school, which tells me that masks, even worn imperfectly, are doing an amazing job. We had 6 kids get sick from a birthday party, but there was no post-birthday, pre-remote learning spread in the school. We had to move 2 different grades remote last week for a similar situation and so far there have been no additional positive cases from school. Anecdotal, but it's a relief for me working in a school.

Where was the exposure that she thinks did this?  Outside?  

[AmandaVT]

37 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Where was the exposure that she thinks did this?  Outside?  

PIcking up takeout at a local restaurant.

[mommyoffive]

Millions of kids’ coronavirus shots ‘ready’ to go; initial doses to be shared on a population basis - The Washington Post

Within days of regulators clearing the nation’s first coronavirus vaccine for younger children, federal officials say they will begin pushing out as many as 20 million doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech pediatric vaccine to immunize school-age kids across the United States in a bid to control the coronavirus pandemic.

The kickoff of the long-awaited children’s vaccination campaign is expected as soon as early November. And this time around, the government has purchased enough doses to give two shots to all 28 million eligible children ages 5 to 11.

Still, federal and state officials and health providers say that vaccinating children is likely to be a more challenging process than it was for adults and teens. The federal government plans to allocate the initial shots according to a formula to ensure equitable distribution, likely based on a state’s population of eligible children, according to a federal health official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to share planning. Enlisting besieged health providers and persuading reluctant parents will complicate the process.

 

“Everyone is so busy right now. Kids have gone back to school, we’re seeing disease increases in pediatrician offices because of exposures to other viruses and we’re needing [children] to come in for flu vaccine,” said Patsy Stinchfield, a former senior director of infection prevention and control at Children’s Minnesota, a pediatric health system in St. Paul and Minneapolis. Clinicians are still completing coronavirus vaccinations for those 12 and older as well as giving third shots to immunocompromised individuals and boosters to older adults and those at high risk for severe disease.

“And now this population. Phew,” Stinchfield said. “There is great worry about how the United States will manage the new wave of kids coming in for covid vaccines.”

The long-running efforts to clear the nation’s first coronavirus vaccine for younger children moved into high gear this week when Pfizer and BioNTech filed a formal request with the Food and Drug Administration to authorize a regimen of two 10-microgram doses in 5- to 11-year-olds — one-third the amount given to those 12 and older. An FDA expert panel is scheduled to hear presentations on the vaccine’s safety and efficacy Oct. 26, with vaccine advisers to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention meeting Nov. 2 and 3. If regulators and the CDC give the go-ahead, the shots could start being administered almost immediately.

“We’re ready, we have the supply,” said Jeff Zients, the White House coronavirus coordinator, appearing on CNN on Thursday. “We’re working with states to set up convenient locations for parents and kids to get vaccinated, including pediatricians’ offices and community sites.”

But the government will initially distribute only a portion of the 65 million doses it has purchased, according to a senior federal health official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to share planning discussions. Up to 20 million doses will be available the first week, the official said. Federal officials are “also making sure that we’re not having folks unnecessarily stockpile product,” the official said.

In a memo sent to state immunization officials late Friday, the CDC said there would be an initial “large one-time bolus of pediatric product … made available pro rata for jurisdictions to order. This will ensure that vaccine can be placed in thousands of locations nationwide making it easier for children to get vaccinated.”

The memo offered no numbers and did not lay out how the pro rata allocation would work.

The CDC said providers who are most likely to vaccinate children “should be prioritized for initial dose availability,” including pediatric clinics, federally qualified health centers, rural health centers and pharmacies.

Still, many questions remain unanswered only weeks from the possible launch.

“How do you get clinicians to want to participate in the program? What will the role of pharmacists be? What will the role of schools be? How will we help parents get their questions answered quickly and by whom?” said Michael Fraser, executive director of the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials.

Such questions are of particular concern at a moment when many health systems and clinicians’ offices are slammed, with many health-care caregivers in their 20th month on the pandemic’s front lines.

In a Wednesday conference call with CDC officials, immunization officials were told there would be vaccine allocation, but were given few specifics, said Claire Hannan, executive director of the Association of Immunization Managers.

While overall supply may be sufficient, Hannan said, a key challenge will be ensuring the children’s vaccine can be shared with all the providers who may want to administer it. Pfizer’s packages contain 10 vials, each containing 10 doses, for a total of 100 doses. The size of those packages will make it hard to share the vaccine with many providers, she said.

“If you have 100 kids across one county, you can only send one package of those 100 doses somewhere,” Hannan said. “That’s not really what I consider sufficient. If they were single-dose vials, you could spread them around.”

And unlike adults and teens accustomed to getting their shots at national pharmacy chains, which can store and administer large numbers of doses, many parents of younger children will prefer to bring their children to their pediatricians’ offices, which may not have that capacity.

“Everyone does recognize that for younger kids, the pediatric office is the trusted place for vaccines,” said Lee Ann Savio Beers, president of the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP). But information about dose distribution and other key details are “not yet clear to us,” she said. “We hope to hear soon, exactly how that is going to happen.”

Federal health officials say they have scheduled meetings in the coming days to discuss vaccine preparations with AAP leaders and pediatric provider groups.

Meanwhile, school-based clinics, often used for children’s flu vaccinations, take six to eight weeks of planning, said Tiffany Tate, executive director of the Maryland Partnership for Prevention, a nonprofit that works toward immunizing childhood and adults.

“Are we going to have covid and flu clinics at the same time? Are we going to do flu and then covid? And how do we get consent forms for everyone? It’s a lot of logistical challenges,” Tate said.

Storage, handling and administration requirements are different for coronavirus and flu vaccines, she said. While the challenges are not insurmountable, Tate said, “you can’t just show up with needles and nurses.”

Planning has also been made more difficult because of unanswered questions about whether providers can administer the existing Pfizer product at the smaller dosages for children younger than 12.

Some large pediatric practices, for instance, had planned to pull child-sized doses from existing Pfizer-BioNTech vials for vaccination clinics and were surprised to learn this week that Pfizer is discouraging that. Pfizer spokesman Kit Longley said the company will be shipping separate pediatric vials, with unique labels and different color caps to distinguish those from the vials used for those 12 and older.

 

“The lack of disseminated information is frustrating,” said Marc Lashley, a pediatrician who heads coronavirus vaccinations at New York-based Allied Physicians Group, one of the largest pediatric groups in the country with about 180,000 patients.

He said Allied may have to delay or cancel its plans to turn 2,000 adult doses into 6,000 pediatric doses for a coronavirus vaccination clinic if it cannot use existing vaccine doses and is unable to get the new formulation quickly.

Even as he expressed disappointment, Lashley said in an email that “we are grateful to have a vaccine to use in children at all, and we are looking forward to implementing it as soon as possible.”

Federal health officials said that some answers must await the completion of the regulatory process.

“That process has to happen before you can give the kind of precise, direct guidance that people are going to need,” the senior federal official said.

But they note the CDC has enrolled tens of thousands of providers around the country — more than 70 percent of clinicians who are part of a federally funded program that provides vaccines at no cost to children — into the coronavirus vaccination program.

The U.S. Health and Human Services and the Education departments also plan to run a “robust messaging/outreach campaign” to encourage vaccination for children, the official said.

Some families won’t need such prodding. For them, the availability of children’s vaccines can’t come soon enough amid a sharp increase in serious coronavirus infections among school-aged children.

But others are likely to have questions and move more deliberately. A survey last month from the Kaiser Family Foundation found about one-third of parents of children in the 5- to 11-year old age group — roughly 9 million kids — wanted 

their child to get vaccinated “right away” once they became eligible. A similar share said they would wait and see, and about a quarter said their children will “definitely not” get a coronavirus vaccine.

CDC spokeswoman Kristen Nordlund said the agency expects to send more information about pediatric vaccine implementation in the coming week.

[Not_a_Number]

21 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

PIcking up takeout at a local restaurant.

Ugh. That is SUCH a short exposure. Was she masked? 

[Mom_to3]

14 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Ugh. That is SUCH a short exposure. Was she masked? 

Yes, that would be very worrisome if masked. Then again, it looks like the colleague feels comfortable munching and doing lesson planning unmasked with a vaccinated person - so perhaps an exposure via an asymptomatic or low-symptomatic vaxxed person is possible as well?

I am very disappointed that the FDA/ACIP did not manage to pull of scheduling the meetings so that children could receive their second shot a week prior to Thanksgiving travel, rather than on Thanksgiving weekend (which, practically, will mean after the holiday). So much illness could have been prevented by prioritizing the scheduling for this age group.

[wathe]

CBC article New data suggests Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching COVID-19 vaccines paid off

"Early data suggests strong protection against delta, no evidence for boosters in the general population yet.

New Canadian data suggests the bold strategy to delay and mix second doses of COVID-19 vaccines led to strong protection from infection, hospitalization and death — even against the highly contagious delta variant — that could provide lessons for the world.

Preliminary data from researchers at the British Columbia Centre for Disease Control (BCCDC) and the Quebec National Institute of Public Health (INSPQ) shows the decision to vaccinate more Canadians sooner by delaying second shots by up to four months saved lives."

 

The data hasn't been published or peer reviewed yet.

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, wathe said:

CBC article New data suggests Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching COVID-19 vaccines paid off

"Early data suggests strong protection against delta, no evidence for boosters in the general population yet.

New Canadian data suggests the bold strategy to delay and mix second doses of COVID-19 vaccines led to strong protection from infection, hospitalization and death — even against the highly contagious delta variant — that could provide lessons for the world.

Preliminary data from researchers at the British Columbia Centre for Disease Control (BCCDC) and the Quebec National Institute of Public Health (INSPQ) shows the decision to vaccinate more Canadians sooner by delaying second shots by up to four months saved lives."

 

The data hasn't been published or peer reviewed yet.

That bodes well for boosters, no?? Since that's a wider spread as well. 

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, wathe said:

CBC article New data suggests Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching COVID-19 vaccines paid off

"Early data suggests strong protection against delta, no evidence for boosters in the general population yet.

New Canadian data suggests the bold strategy to delay and mix second doses of COVID-19 vaccines led to strong protection from infection, hospitalization and death — even against the highly contagious delta variant — that could provide lessons for the world.

Preliminary data from researchers at the British Columbia Centre for Disease Control (BCCDC) and the Quebec National Institute of Public Health (INSPQ) shows the decision to vaccinate more Canadians sooner by delaying second shots by up to four months saved lives."

 

The data hasn't been published or peer reviewed yet.

I wonder if they controlled by date of the second shot, though. Because that's an obvious confounder there -- a longer spread makes it likely the second shot was more recent. 

[wathe]

35 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I wonder if they controlled by date of the second shot, though. Because that's an obvious confounder there -- a longer spread makes it likely the second shot was more recent. 

Yes.  I think the key word regarding boosters here is "yet".  We don't know how long the immunity will last.  But, it would seem, so far, so good.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, wathe said:

Yes.  I think the key word regarding boosters here is "yet".  We don't know how long the immunity will last.  But, it would seem, so far, so good.

I really hope that they did analyze by date of last shot and not just dump all the data together like that with an obvious confounder. 

[AmandaVT]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Ugh. That is SUCH a short exposure. Was she masked? 

Not for the pickup, no. She's been masking in grocery stores and places like that. We do not have a mask mandate right now so although she wasn't as careful as I would have been, she was almost definitely part of a large majority unmasked in the restaurant.

43 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

Yes, that would be very worrisome if masked. Then again, it looks like the colleague feels comfortable munching and doing lesson planning unmasked with a vaccinated person - so perhaps an exposure via an asymptomatic or low-symptomatic vaxxed person is possible as well?

 

We've both been very careful overall, but it's honestly exhausting wearing a tight mask 8+ hrs a day without a break. (I probably sound like a baby to all the medical people here - sorry!!) Given that we're both vaccinated and there is no current mask mandate, we have taken an occasional opportunity to be unmasked while together. I know it's not strictly ideal, but sometimes I need 5-10 min without a mask when there are no students around. I won't take it off in the bathroom because I feel that less safe than my office with an air purifier running. 

The area behind my ears hurts all the time, my face is broken out and teachers are getting so much pushback this year since the district mandated masking. Parents and kids both - "covid is fake", "you think we're sheep", "masks are harming the kids". It's exhausting. 

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

The area behind my ears hurts all the time, my face is broken out and teachers are getting so much pushback this year since the district mandated masking. Parents and kids both - "covid is fake", "you think we're sheep", "masks are harming the kids". It's exhausting. 

I can't fix most of those, but you could tie your mask behind your head. It really gives a break to the ears. 

[AmandaVT]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I can't fix most of those, but you could tie your mask behind your head. It really gives a break to the ears. 

I may go back to that - I have headbands too with buttons I can loop the earloops around. I don't feel it gives me quite as good a fit around my nose/mouth, but ugh. I may have to. 

 

I'm sorry to be a downer on here - I've never been quite so tired. Vermont did so well for so long w/ Covid guidance and now it feels that they are just saying "everyone's had a chance to be vaccinated - good luck to the rest of you." Which isn't fair to the under 12 set. The majority of our cases are now children/child care providers/school staff.

 

 

Schools aren't getting any support from the department of ed or the department of health with contact tracing. We've also been told that if a whole school has to go remote, it won't count as a school day (even though we do live teaching online) and will have to be made up at the end of the year. Overall, it's really disheartening.

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

I may go back to that - I have headbands too with buttons I can loop the earloops around. I don't feel it gives me quite as good a fit around my nose/mouth, but ugh. I may have to. 

I actually think if you make an adjustable knot of some sort, the fit is VERY good. I used to do a cow's hitch behind my head and tighten it whenever it loosened. People said they used beads for that kind of thing as well, although in my experience, a cow's hitch holds better than most things. (I know how to do sliding knots due to memories of my babywearing days, lol.) 

 

2 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

I'm sorry to be a downer on here - I've never been quite so tired. Vermont did so well for so long w/ Covid guidance and now it feels that they are just saying "everyone's had a chance to be vaccinated - good luck to the rest of you." Which isn't fair to the under 12 set. The majority of our cases are now children/child care providers/school staff.

 

 

Schools aren't getting any support from the department of ed or the department of health with contact tracing. We've also been told that if a whole school has to go remote, it won't count as a school day (even though we do live teaching online) and will have to be made up at the end of the year. Overall, it's really disheartening.

That sounds really hard and totally unfair. 

[AmandaVT]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I actually think if you make an adjustable knot of some sort, the fit is VERY good. I used to do a cow's hitch behind my head and tighten it whenever it loosened. People said they used beads for that kind of thing as well, although in my experience, a cow's hitch holds better than most things. (I know how to do sliding knots due to memories of my babywearing days, lol.) 

 

That sounds really hard and totally unfair. 

Off to google cow's hitch! 

And yep - it's so hard. I'll be so happy when/if Covid finally ends although at this point, I feel like I'll be masking forever. On the plus side, I haven't had a cold in over a year and a half, so that's something.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, AmandaVT said:

Off to google cow's hitch! 

And yep - it's so hard. I'll be so happy when/if Covid finally ends although at this point, I feel like I'll be masking forever. On the plus side, I haven't had a cold in over a year and a half, so that's something.

I kind of worry about my immune system with the lack of colds, lol. I feel like I'll have one constant cold when we stop masking all the time, like I did when DD9 started preschool. 

On the other hand, I'm going to prioritize outdoor things in the warm months from now on, I think. I find the extent that the outside is healthier absolutely amazing. 

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

I kind of worry about my immune system with the lack of colds, lol. I feel like I'll have one constant cold when we stop masking all the time, like I did when DD9 started preschool. 

On the other hand, I'm going to prioritize outdoor things in the warm months from now on, I think. I find the extent that the outside is healthier absolutely amazing. 

My semi-annual bouts of miserable laryngitis did not happen last year. This alone may be enough for me to shun humankind and mask forever! 

[KSera]

I thought this was a sobering thread from an ICU nurse:

Thread Reader version

“I’m not angry. Because it’s so damn sad. These people are parents, they’re loved ones, they lived perfectly functional normal lives before this. And they just got fed enough of that shitty misinformation to make them doubt the vaccine, or at least hesitate…

And here we are. Many of them will never make it home. Even if they do, they will face months and months of physical therapy to regain the function they lost due to ICU acquired weakness

 

Also consider the mental trauma of being intubated, and then not knowing what happened while you were sedated, for some people that means multiple weeks or longer (FYI, you still pooped)

 

And all of this because what? Because one day they sat down and watched some stupid conspiracy theory video? Or because they saw a hyped up Facebook post about a rare vaccine related injury? And after they interacted with that post, the algorithm slammed them with 10 more?

 

That little bit of vaccine hesitancy they started with all of a sudden becomes full blown fear. But what truly should be the fear is what I’m watching from my desk outside their room.”

 

It continues from there. 

[ScoutTN]

9 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

My semi-annual bouts of miserable laryngitis did not happen last year. This alone may be enough for me to shun humankind and mask forever! 

I haven’t had a cold, but I have had multiple (at least 6) bad sore throats (how a cold usually starts for me) that I have fought with supplements, extra sleep, hydration etc. I wonder why my body had been able to fight off the crud instead of actually getting sick? 
 

We are all vaxed and we mask, but are fairly busy, out and around, not locked down. 

Edited October 10, 2021 by ScoutTN

[rebcoola]

1 hour ago, ScoutTN said:

I haven’t had a cold, but I have had multiple (at least 6) bad sore throats (how a cold usually starts for me) that I have fought with supplements, extra sleep, hydration etc. I wonder why My body had been able to fight off the crud instead of actually getting sick? 
 

We are all vaxed and we mask, but are fairly busy, out and around, not locked down. 

Possibly lower viral load than usual.

[JennyD]

9 hours ago, Mom_to3 said:

I am very disappointed that the FDA/ACIP did not manage to pull of scheduling the meetings so that children could receive their second shot a week prior to Thanksgiving travel, rather than on Thanksgiving weekend (which, practically, will mean after the holiday). So much illness could have been prevented by prioritizing the scheduling for this age group.

I couldn't agree more.  

[Not_a_Number]

3 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

I haven’t had a cold, but I have had multiple (at least 6) bad sore throats (how a cold usually starts for me) that I have fought with supplements, extra sleep, hydration etc. I wonder why My body had been able to fight off the crud instead of actually getting sick? 
 

We are all vaxed and we mask, but are fairly busy, out and around, not locked down. 

It might not be a cold. Might be allergies or something. 

I know I've had a BUNCH of sore throats, and I'm almost certain they weren't colds, because I didn't have any of my usual symptoms of a cold and it'd go away by themselves. Plus, they happened when we had about zero exposure. 

[KSera]

Article about chiropractors as purveyors of vaccine misinformation (and the monetization by them of such): Anti-vaccine chiropractors rising force of misinformation

It appears to be only about 20% of chiropractors, but they are a very vocal minority, to the point many chiropractors were able to earn their continuing education credits this year by attending a big anti-vax convention put on by and for chiropractors.

Quote

“Mainstream medicine will refer people out to a chiropractor not knowing that they could be exposed to misinformation. You go because your back hurts, and then suddenly you don’t want to vaccinate your kids.”

Quote

AP could find no national numbers of [Covid-19] vaccination rates among chiropractors, but Oregon tracks vaccine uptake among all licensed health providers, and the numbers show chiropractors and their assistants are by far the least likely to be vaccinated -- and far less than the general public.

Just 58% of licensed chiropractors and 55% of chiropractic assistants in Oregon were vaccinated as of Sept. 5. That’s compared to 96% of dentists, 92% of MDs, 83% of registered nurses, 68% of naturopathic physicians, and 75% of the general public.

 

 

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

It might not be a cold. Might be allergies or something. 

I know I've had a BUNCH of sore throats, and I'm almost certain they weren't colds, because I didn't have any of my usual symptoms of a cold and it'd go away by themselves. Plus, they happened when we had about zero exposure. 

Maybe, but I have zero history of any allergy issues and these sore throats have been at all times of year.

[The Governess]

I get a lot of sore throats that don’t seem to be related to actually getting sick. I think sometimes it might be reflux causing a bit of irritation. A couple times I think I may have had a canker sore or something similar in my throat (I am prone to getting those in general, and when I do they can make my lymph nodes flare up too). I’ll also get a sore throat sometimes if I eat too much sugar or have something sugary before bed. Gargling with salt water before I go to sleep helps a lot.