The Vaccine Thread

[dirty ethel rackham]

1 hour ago, sassenach said:

We've had the same fight here, except our students are spread out across about 6 different counties and each county is doing it differently. It seems like the most consistent route has been for people to contact their primary care providers, but people are getting it however they can. I logged onto a county zoom and harassed our health officer in the chat box about it. He ignored me in the zoom but my county updated the website the next day to include students in healthcare. It's been a huge oversight, for sure.

Our students are spread over 5 counties and they are all doing things differently.  I am 2 miles from the border of the one county that has its act together.  The county where I am doing my clinicals is relying on the hospitals to administer the vaccine.  But one hospital made national news for giving the vaccine to employees who work from home while other hospitals don't have enough for their staff with direct patient care responsibilities (like the one I'm at where community positivity rates are among the top 3 in the state. )  They said it was due to the fact that it was going to expire.  But that still meant the employee had to come in to get the vaccine.  They could have issued an alert to surrounding hospitals to send their employees over.  

[sassenach]

40 minutes ago, dirty ethel rackham said:

Our students are spread over 5 counties and they are all doing things differently.  I am 2 miles from the border of the one county that has its act together.  The county where I am doing my clinicals is relying on the hospitals to administer the vaccine.  But one hospital made national news for giving the vaccine to employees who work from home while other hospitals don't have enough for their staff with direct patient care responsibilities (like the one I'm at where community positivity rates are among the top 3 in the state. )  They said it was due to the fact that it was going to expire.  But that still meant the employee had to come in to get the vaccine.  They could have issued an alert to surrounding hospitals to send their employees over.  

Are you in CA, too, or is it just like this everywhere?

[dirty ethel rackham]

37 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Are you in CA, too, or is it just like this everywhere?

Nope.  IL

[mommyoffive]

ConnectPortal (trialscope.com)

Moderna is wanting teens for their vaccine study.   Just incase anyone is wanting to do it. 

[Drama Llama]

Has anyone seen any more reliable information on when we'll know whether people with the vaccine can pass the virus?  

Also, what are people hearing about the vaccine and pregnant women, breastfeeding women, and newborns?

 

[Laura Corin]

On 1/15/2021 at 10:17 PM, Corraleno said:

These are the deadlines for vaccine delivery according to the current contracts the US has with Pfizer and Moderna. Note that we are only guaranteed to have enough for 60 million people (2 doses) by the end of March. Hopefully Moderna will be able to deliver additional vaccine before their June deadline, but I have read that the additional doses of the Pfizer vaccine (for the order that was placed on December 23rd) won't be delivered until May/June/July, after they have fulfilled contracts with other countries who placed earlier orders.

ETA: Johnson & Johnson does not even have data yet, will not be ready to apply for  approval until sometime next month, and have said they are behind schedule with manufacturing and will "hopefully" be able to ship vaccines sometime in March. 
 

So has the US pre-ordered enough  J&J or other vaccines to cover everyone,  assuming some success in trials?

[mommyoffive]

37 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Has anyone seen any more reliable information on when we'll know whether people with the vaccine can pass the virus?  

Also, what are people hearing about the vaccine and pregnant women, breastfeeding women, and newborns?

 

I haven't read any studies about pg women getting the vaccine.  However, I am on another board with a bunch of pg women who have gotten the vaccine already.  That really surprised me, since I didn't know it was being given to pg women yet.  

[mommyoffive]

Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine trial for kids 12-15

Pfizer COVID-19 Vaccine Study (covidvaccinestudy.com)

NCT04368728 Clinical Trials | Pfizer

[Drama Llama]

3 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

I haven't read any studies about pg women getting the vaccine.  However, I am on another board with a bunch of pg women who have gotten the vaccine already.  That really surprised me, since I didn't know it was being given to pg women yet.  

My understanding is that the American College of Obstetrics is saying that women who are pregnant and who would otherwise be in the category where they'd get the vaccine early should get it.  So, if someone is a nurse, or has kidney disease, for example, then the benefits out weigh the risk.  

The pregnant person in my life has no other risk factors and is working from home.  So, I don't know for them. 

[Corraleno]

22 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

So has the US pre-ordered enough  J&J or other vaccines to cover everyone,  assuming some success in trials?

The US ordered 100 million doses of J&J and 300 million of AZ (which is by far the cheapest option), in addition to the 200 million doses each from Moderna and Pfizer. So if all the vaccine they ordered is delivered, that would more than cover the entire population.  Of course, if a lot of adults refuse it, then they may be able to cover every adult who wants it just from Moderna and Pfizer (although some of those Pfizer doses will not be delivered until July).

But we don't know yet how effective J&J is (or whether one dose will be sufficient), and if it turns out that AZ efficacy is only in the low 60s, that means that 2 shots of AZ are only a little more effective than one shot of Moderna or Pfizer.  I worry that once AZ and/or J&J are approved, even if they are considerably less effective, then people with money and good insurance will be able to get the best, most expensive vaccines, while the poor get the cheaper, less effective ones. 

[vonfirmath]

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

The US ordered 100 million doses of J&J and 300 million of AZ (which is by far the cheapest option), in addition to the 200 million doses each from Moderna and Pfizer. So if all the vaccine they ordered is delivered, that would more than cover the entire population.  Of course, if a lot of adults refuse it, then they may be able to cover every adult who wants it just from Moderna and Pfizer (although some of those Pfizer doses will not be delivered until July).

But we don't know yet how effective J&J is (or whether one dose will be sufficient), and if it turns out that AZ efficacy is only in the low 60s, that means that 2 shots of AZ are only a little more effective than one shot of Moderna or Pfizer.  I worry that once AZ and/or J&J are approved, even if they are considerably less effective, then people with money and good insurance will be able to get the best, most expensive vaccines, while the poor get the cheaper, less effective ones. 

Whether more effective or less, it was always the case that the cheaper vaccines were going to be the vaccine of choice for much of the world where the cost of Moderna/Pfizer likely meant no vaccine at all.

 

[Laura Corin]

7 hours ago, Corraleno said:

The US ordered 100 million doses of J&J and 300 million of AZ (which is by far the cheapest option), in addition to the 200 million doses each from Moderna and Pfizer. So if all the vaccine they ordered is delivered, that would more than cover the entire population.  Of course, if a lot of adults refuse it, then they may be able to cover every adult who wants it just from Moderna and Pfizer (although some of those Pfizer doses will not be delivered until July).

But we don't know yet how effective J&J is (or whether one dose will be sufficient), and if it turns out that AZ efficacy is only in the low 60s, that means that 2 shots of AZ are only a little more effective than one shot of Moderna or Pfizer.  I worry that once AZ and/or J&J are approved, even if they are considerably less effective, then people with money and good insurance will be able to get the best, most expensive vaccines, while the poor get the cheaper, less effective ones. 

Long term, something like that could happen here, with private patients paying out of pocket for particular vaccines. For the foreseeable future, however, the entire vaccine supply is government controlled - when you get the call to go for a vaccine,  you take whichever one is offered or choose to refuse vaccination.

[Laura Corin]

Discussion on vaccine efficacy after single dose. In case you have to Google, the programme is More or Less, latest episode.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000r4t9

Edited January 17, 2021 by Laura Corin

[Laura Corin]

Fun system for vaccination organisation: a local vaccination programme in Yeovil in the SW of the UK is naming cohorts by garden bird.  The first cohort was over-eighties with underlying conditions - storks; old people in care homes - robins; other over-eighties - bluetits....  The cohorts are called up by phone (almost everyone in the country is registered with an NHS GP) and invited to come in.  It's then very easy to know who needs to come in for their second dose: okay, this week it's the robins...  They can chase up any robins who miss their second appointments very easily.  Among that age group, they've had only about 1% refusing the vaccination.

[Ausmumof3]

On 1/19/2021 at 2:14 AM, Laura Corin said:

Fun system for vaccination organisation: a local vaccination programme in Yeovil in the SW of the UK is naming cohorts by garden bird.  The first cohort was over-eighties with underlying conditions - storks; old people in care homes - robins; other over-eighties - bluetits....  The cohorts are called up by phone (almost everyone in the country is registered with an NHS GP) and invited to come in.  It's then very easy to know who needs to come in for their second dose: okay, this week it's the robins...  They can chase up any robins who miss their second appointments very easily.  Among that age group, they've had only about 1% refusing the vaccination.

This is kind of cute as well as practical 🙂 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-moderna-idUKKBN29O2C5?taid=60074bdf46b67f00016201a6&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
 

One Moderna batch has been put on pause in California after a higher than usual rate of allergic reactions.  
 

“A higher-than-usual number of possible allergic reactions were reported with a specific lot of Moderna vaccine administered at one community vaccination clinic. Fewer than 10 individuals required medical attention over the span of 24 hours," the epidemiologist said in a statement here.

The vaccine maker said it was unaware of comparable cases of adverse events from other vaccination centers which may have administered vaccines from the same lot or from other lots of its vaccine.”

[Soror]

OUr county is doing its first vaccine event for the public on Friday and I just got MIL signed up, it is the Pfizer one. They are doing 2k doses in a drive by clinic in conjunction with the National Guard. Then on the 12th they are doing the second dose, she is very excited to be signed up. This event is for those 65+ or with underlying health conditions.

[Ausmumof3]

Roll out is scheduled to start in my state from mid February 

[Starr]

Tomorrow is our day for the first dose!

[popmom]

Just now, Starr said:

Tomorrow is our day for the first dose!

I just saw this in my email. Just reading it gave me chills—in a good way if that makes sense. Hope abounds!

[RootAnn]

The local health department is reporting that there are about 7,000 people 65+ eligible for the vaccine shots in a four-county (rural) area (that aren't already included in the previous eligible group) but they only have 170 doses available right now. Chances are that only 30-50% of those people will want the vaccine in my area, but that's a big gap. 

[Starr]

I received the Pfizer vaccine today. My arm started getting sore a couple of hours later but other than that I am fine. They used a gym space in a local university. It was well organized. Too bad info didn't go directly into computers though, all the paper forms. We waited 15 minutes and were given an appointment for the second shot in 3 weeks. I'm in a rural area and not everyone is rushing for the vaccine. 

[Shoeless]

I am on a wait list for Pfizer this week, but not holding my breath. 😕 They only had 975 doses available and all appts were booked within 3 minutes of sign up being available. 

[Starr]

22 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

I am on a wait list for Pfizer this week, but not holding my breath. 😕 They only had 975 doses available and all appts were booked within 3 minutes of sign up being available. 

Signing up is crazy. I missed it until they sent larger amounts of vaccine and still the site crashed several times.

[Shoeless]

11 minutes ago, Starr said:

Signing up is crazy. I missed it until they sent larger amounts of vaccine and still the site crashed several times.

My county is only receiving vaccine every other week, and it's a small amount each time. It's frustrating. 😞

[wathe]

We have run out.  My second dose has been postponed to who-knows-when (was supposed to be this weekend).

[popmom]

7 minutes ago, wathe said:

We have run out.  My second dose has been postponed to who-knows-when (was supposed to be this weekend).

You're in Canada? Has the entire country run out or is this local?

[wathe]

3 minutes ago, popmom said:

You're in Canada? Has the entire country run out or is this local?

National supply disruption, sadly.

[Laura Corin]

30 minutes ago, wathe said:

National supply disruption, sadly.

We have a slow down in supply. They are having to make some alterations to the  Pfizer plant that supplies the UK.

[wathe]

14 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

We have a slow down in supply. They are having to make some alterations to the  Pfizer plant that supplies the UK.

I think it's the same plant.  Our supply comes from Belgium, I think.

[Laura Corin]

25 minutes ago, wathe said:

I think it's the same plant.  Our supply comes from Belgium, I think.

Yes. I should have read your link.

[JennyD]

This is a good thread  about the still-unclear evidence for the vaccine's real-world effectiveness in Israel, where about a quarter the country has been immunized so far. 

[AbcdeDooDah]

Was there a thread sharing personal vaccine stories? Not sure it we were putting them here. 

Anyway. Mom 71 year old mom got the Moderna vax on Tuesday. She said after she left the monitory ring wan was driving home she felt like there was en elephant sitting on her chest and like she was having a heart attack. Today she said her arm is sore.

My husband got his yesterday, Moderna also. He is a first responder so they did it on the clock as part of their workday. They were monitored for 45 minutes. He got a headache soon after that and it got worse. He stayed in a hotel last night rather than come home because he just wanted to sleep. He said he feels fine today but his arm is sore and it hurts to move it.

[Corraleno]

Following links within links from the twitter thread posted by Jenny D, I found this:

"More than 98 percent of people who received both doses of the COVID-19 vaccine have developed antibodies that neutralize the virus, according to the results of a serological study conducted by Tel Aviv’s Sheba Medical Center at Tel HaShomer.

The study, whose results were published Monday, tested subjects for antibodies a week after they received their second dose of the vaccine. Out of the 102 tests analyzed, researchers saw the level of antibodies jump by factors ranging from six to 20—even higher than the level of antibodies measured in recovered COVID-19 patients who had been seriously ill.

The serological study also showed that only two subjects had developed low levels of antibodies. Professor Gili Regev-Yochay, head of the medical center’s Infectious Disease Epidemiology Unit, who directed the study, said that one of the subjects was resistant to the vaccine, and the other was young and healthy.

"The results of the study match the Pfizer trials and even exceed expectations,” said Regev-Yochay.

“I expect that the results of the study of the rest of the [medical center] workers will be similar. There is certainly a reason for optimism. I hope that we’ll see a drop in the number of new cases in the next two weeks,” she added.

Sheba continues to analyze the findings of other serological studies, and researchers are looking into whether there is a link between subjects’ age and the level of antibodies they develop. According to Regev-Yochay, the assumption is that anyone who has received both doses of the vaccine cannot infect others.

According to Regev-Yochay, “People who have received both doses of the vaccine have levels of antibodies ranging from six to 59. These are high values, and it’s encouraging and reasonable to assume that these people will not be carriers or contagious, although that is still not a direct conclusion.”

https://www.jns.org/high-level-of-antibodies-after-second-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine-israeli-study-shows/

 

[dirty ethel rackham]

On 1/12/2021 at 12:12 PM, dirty ethel rackham said:

I have been in this no man's land regarding getting the vaccine.  I'm a student doing clinicals in a hospital in a high community spread area, where I am required to spend 30+ minutes in close contact with each patient.  Even though I don't work with known COVID or PUI patients, I do deal with emergency room patients and outpatients who may be asymptomatic.  Fortunately, our hospital has adequate PPE and we are encouraged to treat everyone as capable of spreading COVID.  

Our county created a website and said that health care providers would be able to get it through the county, but it was confusing and made it look like the sign up was still in development.  But it encouraged you to sign up for their email updates.  It took me a couple of weeks to find out that they were using this sign up to send out links to small batches health care providers to make an appointment  - they would send them out to small groups of people from their list as they opened up appointments.  If I had known this earlier, I would have signed up for the updates earlier.   I only found out about this because a classmate had a family member get one of these emails. 

Also, even though the CDC says that students working in health care should be eligible for the vaccine, the documentation required by the county would have made that impossible.  The hospital where I'm doing clinicals does not give badges to students (and we obviously wouldn't have a pay stub.)  

I found out yesterday that, after getting some pushback from our college, the county will accept my college student ID and documentation that I am enrolled in a clinicals course.  The same day, I found out that my hospital is planning on vaccinating students within the next couple of weeks.  I am so relieved that I will be able to get a vaccine.  

I know it will be a long time before we will have enough people vaccinated that we can get back to "normal."  

Quoting myself here ...

I have an appointment next Tuesday.  I finally got an email from the county to make an appointment.  I don't know which version of the vaccine that I am getting.  I guess I'll find out when I get there.  Now to decide which arm should take the shot.  Everyone I've talked to says that this vaccine made their arm more sore than any other vaccine.  Do I have lots of pain at work (right arm) or do I give up a night's sleep (left arm - I'm a side sleeper)?

 

[Corraleno]

Mathematical modeling of different vaccine prioritization stratgies concludes that:

"A highly effective transmission-blocking vaccine prioritized to adults ages 20-49 years minimized cumulative incidence, but mortality and years of life lost were minimized in most scenarios when the vaccine was prioritized to adults over 60 years old." 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33330882

 

[Starr]

2 hours ago, dirty ethel rackham said:

Quoting myself here ...

I have an appointment next Tuesday.  I finally got an email from the county to make an appointment.  I don't know which version of the vaccine that I am getting.  I guess I'll find out when I get there.  Now to decide which arm should take the shot.  Everyone I've talked to says that this vaccine made their arm more sore than any other vaccine.  Do I have lots of pain at work (right arm) or do I give up a night's sleep (left arm - I'm a side sleeper)?

 

I went with my right, dominate arm. Dh was in his left. The injection was easier than a flu shot. After a few hours I could feel some discomfort in my arm. I used some ice right before sleeping and was able to sleep on that arm without pain. Today it was there only if I thought about it. I've had worse flu shots. It was about the same for dh.

[Frances]

3 hours ago, Starr said:

I went with my right, dominate arm. Dh was in his left. The injection was easier than a flu shot. After a few hours I could feel some discomfort in my arm. I used some ice right before sleeping and was able to sleep on that arm without pain. Today it was there only if I thought about it. I've had worse flu shots. It was about the same for dh.

This is similar to family member reports. At most it was the same arm pain as a flu shot, but several said they’ve had worse pain from some flu shots. 

I always choose my dominant arm for shots because I know I will use it more and it’s my understanding that helps with the pain. I generally try to go for a vigorous walk with lots of arm movement right after any shot.

[Wheres Toto]

I got an email that I'm not eligible for the vaccine, but due to shortages there aren't any available, but I can try to make an appointment with links to three different ways. 

I'm just going to wait until more is available.   I'm a teacher but small groups, short classes, full masking and I'm 51. 

[mommyoffive]

Just saw this in an email from Kiplingers

On Thursday, Eli Lilly (LLY) announced that its antibody drug bamlanivimab for treatment of COVID-19 also prevented infections from occurring in residents and staff of nursing homes. Infections in residents were reduced by 80%, and in staff by 57%. This is the first drug designed for treatment that has been shown to be preventative, as well. Bamlanivimab was approved under the FDA’s Emergency Use Authorization back in November. However, a higher dose was used in the trial than was considered under the initial EUA for treatment purposes, so Eli Lilly may still need to get another EUA for the higher dose.

This is likely also good news for Regeneron (REGN), which makes a similar antibody treatment drug, remdesivir. Both drugs have been underused, with less than 25% of the supply being administered to patients. The problem is that they traditionally had to be given intravenously over an hour, and few hospitals have wanted to tie up staff and space for that long. But recently, CVS (CVS) announced an initiative to allow patients to receive bamlanivimab at home. Other sites are being considered, such as nursing homes, urgent care facilities and mobile medical units in rural areas.

[mommyoffive]

This isn't good news

 

Fauci: New data shows Covid vaccines may be less effective against some strains (cnbc.com)

 

[TravelingChris]

On 1/15/2021 at 2:36 PM, Corraleno said:

The "really good reason" was that the administration told states that they were keeping the second doses in reserve, to be released to states as the second shots were due! States were never expected to hold back half their doses.

Then Alex Azar announced that they were going to release the reserve, to allow those doses to be used for first shots, in anticipation of having enough ongoing supply for the second shots in the future, and he also insisted that states expand their programs to include everyone 65 and over. My state, along with many others, did exactly what Azar said they should do — only to discover that there is no reserve and the planned expansion cannot occur because they will not get enough doses to start vaccinating everyone over 65.

My state held back doses for the second dose and was told they are behind but realistically, we probably aren't since everyone who got a first dose has a second dose in storage.

[mommyoffive]

Email from Kiplingers today

 

Despite many problems, vaccination is proceeding in the U.S. Roughly 5.6% of the population has received at least one dose of vaccine. New people are receiving their first dose at the rate of 1.1 million per day. A steady rate over 1 million is required to achieve herd immunity by the end of summer.

 

The states that are vaccinating the fastest: Alaska and West Virginia have given first doses to 10% of their populations. Connecticut, New Mexico, North and South Dakota and Oklahoma are above 7.0%. Many of these fast-vaccination states also have had a high number of infections, and thus should reach herd immunity soonest. The laggards are Idaho, Missouri and Nevada at about 4%.

Merck’s (MRK) COVID-19 vaccines failed their Phase 1 trial because they didn’t produce enough of an immune response. Merck will switch its focus to developing its COVID therapy drugs instead.

Recognizing the potential threat of the South African COVID-19 variant, E484K, Moderna (MRNA) will develop a booster shot to its COVID-19 vaccine to counter E484K’s greater antibody resistance.

Edited January 25, 2021 by mommyoffive

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

Recognizing the potential threat of the South African COVID-19 variant, E484K, Moderna (MRNA) will develop a booster shot to its COVID-19 vaccine to counter E484K’s greater antibody resistance.

Oh! Oh! This is totally off-topic, but that’s where Moderna’s name comes from, isn’t it??? They stuck some letters in the middle of mRNA...

Edited January 25, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[JennyD]

Very good, albeit very preliminary, news about the Pfizer vaccine's effectiveness as seen in the Israeli rollout.  

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, JennyD said:

Very good, albeit very preliminary, news about the Pfizer vaccine's effectiveness as seen in the Israeli rollout.  

I'm definitely watching the Israel numbers. That's good to hear!! 

[Corraleno]

2 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Recognizing the potential threat of the South African COVID-19 variant, E484K, Moderna (MRNA) will develop a booster shot to its COVID-19 vaccine to counter E484K’s greater antibody resistance.

Given the fact that they're barely able to keep up with current demand for two doses of the original vaccine, it seems unlikely that they could quickly increase production by 50% to provide a 3rd shot, which immediately made me suspect that this is primarily a PR move designed to prop up their stock price after the news that their vaccine may be less effective against the South Africa variant.

So I googled around a bit and sure enough... their stock price jumped 10% today after they announced they would develop a booster shot. 

[Laura Corin]

This table from the NYT is good because it shows the past week as well as totals, so you can see the progress. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Laura Corin said:

This table from the NYT is good because it shows the past week as well as totals, so you can see the progress. 

For some reason this feels a bit like those software download percentage bars.  I guess maybe because I’m expecting there will be glitches and slow patches and fast patches and lots of variations.  Good to see it happening though bit by bit.

[BeachGal]

Moderna is saying they will be able to deliver 100 million doses to the US by end of March.

https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-provides-us-covid-19-vaccine-supply-update/

Johnson & Johnson, if approved (very likely), has stopped producing other pharmaceuticals in one of their factories so they can devote their production to the vaccine. They also built another factory which is expected to eventually triple their supply of vaccines. Initially, they will probably not have as much as we’d like but it should eventually ramp up.

J&J’s is supposed to be a game changer.