The Vaccine Thread

[Terabith]

Apparently my husband may qualify for the 1a vaccine.  He does IT for a hospital but works 100% from home.  I’m honestly lividly angry because the hospital (a major monopoly in our area) has gotten enough vaccine to vaccinate all their workers, even the low risk ones, but I can guarantee that smaller nursing homes in our area will not be able to access the vaccine for their employees. So while selfishly, I am grateful my husband can get the vaccine, I feel like it’s not equitable or morally right.  

[Scarlett]

Dh and I have been discussing this morning whether or not a vaccinated person can still transmit the virus. I am sorry if this has been discussed recently on this thread-I just read through the last page only.  I know this info is changing daily.  I googled this morning and basically found a bunch of 'we don't know yet.'  So we all need to keep wearing our masks even after being vaccinated until heard immunity is reached or until they confirm that a vaccinated person does not transmit it.  

Right?

[Pawz4me]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Dh and I have been discussing this morning whether or not a vaccinated person can still transmit the virus. I am sorry if this has been discussed recently on this thread-I just read through the last page only.  I know this info is changing daily.  I googled this morning and basically found a bunch of 'we don't know yet.'  So we all need to keep wearing our masks even after being vaccinated until heard immunity is reached or until they confirm that a vaccinated person does not transmit it.  

Right?

That's my understanding.

[Pam in CT]

re no good deed goes unpunished

36 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

This ["social butterflies" out and about socializing and transmitting getting vaccine priority] is very interesting and I can follow the logic. 
 

But, I have to be super transparent and say I am reminded of David’s lament about the wicked always prospering. Applying it here, the people who choose not to limit activities because they just don’t feel like it, or who just can’t bear not to meet up with friends for dinner, earn the vaccine reward, while those of us who were compliant *despite it being difficult for us, too,* would be at the back of the line. ..

That's been rather a theme throughout this plague, hasn't it.

I would not have expected that wearing a mask for the sake of the vulnerable in our midst would ever have become a symbol of hating America, and would draw derision and fury and outright physical violence from flag-bearing spittle-snarling fellow citizens. But here we are.

[kokotg]

27 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Dh and I have been discussing this morning whether or not a vaccinated person can still transmit the virus. I am sorry if this has been discussed recently on this thread-I just read through the last page only.  I know this info is changing daily.  I googled this morning and basically found a bunch of 'we don't know yet.'  So we all need to keep wearing our masks even after being vaccinated until heard immunity is reached or until they confirm that a vaccinated person does not transmit it.  

Right?

yes. One of my big vaccine worries is that numbers will START to go down and everyone will be ready to throw out all the precautions and go back to normal too early. 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, kokotg said:

yes. One of my big vaccine worries is that numbers will START to go down and everyone will be ready to throw out all the precautions and go back to normal too early. 

This is what dh is worried about too with all of the young people who work in his office.  He thinks the message is not being spread enough that they don't know if you can transmit the virus even after vaccination.

[vonfirmath]

48 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Dh and I have been discussing this morning whether or not a vaccinated person can still transmit the virus. I am sorry if this has been discussed recently on this thread-I just read through the last page only.  I know this info is changing daily.  I googled this morning and basically found a bunch of 'we don't know yet.'  So we all need to keep wearing our masks even after being vaccinated until heard immunity is reached or until they confirm that a vaccinated person does not transmit it.  

Right?

I heard the Moderna data shows that it prevents asymptomatic COVID_19 as well as symptomatic. Which makes it highly likely the Pfizer does

Edited December 15, 2020 by vonfirmath

[vonfirmath]

54 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Apparently my husband may qualify for the 1a vaccine.  He does IT for a hospital but works 100% from home.  I’m honestly lividly angry because the hospital (a major monopoly in our area) has gotten enough vaccine to vaccinate all their workers, even the low risk ones, but I can guarantee that smaller nursing homes in our area will not be able to access the vaccine for their employees. So while selfishly, I am grateful my husband can get the vaccine, I feel like it’s not equitable or morally right.  

I wish there was some way after vaccinating our high risk to get the vaccine to high risk in countries that can't afford to get it themselves...

 

[vonfirmath]

1 hour ago, Seasider too said:

This is very interesting and I can follow the logic. 
 

But, I have to be super transparent and say I am reminded of David’s lament about the wicked always prospering. Applying it here, the people who choose not to limit activities because they just don’t feel like it, or who just can’t bear not to meet up with friends for dinner, earn the vaccine reward, while those of us who were compliant *despite it being difficult for us, too,* would be at the back of the line. 

Heck I’m at the back of the line anyway, not sure what I’m growling about. 😂 Just getting off a little vent I guess. Like I said, I’ll be last, anyway. 
 

(ET clarify that I’ll be last on the priority list, not last because I’ll refuse a vaccine.)

This is presuming people with different needs than you are wicked.  Mental health needs and economic needs are very real.

 

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

This is presuming people with different needs than you are wicked.  Mental health needs and economic needs are very real.

I don't think everyone who's going out and not social distancing is doing so because of economic and mental health needs. I have zero judgment for people like that, but that's not all I see by any stretch of the imagination. 

[mathnerd]

1 hour ago, Seasider too said:

This is very interesting and I can follow the logic. 
 

But, I have to be super transparent and say I am reminded of David’s lament about the wicked always prospering. Applying it here, the people who choose not to limit activities because they just don’t feel like it, or who just can’t bear not to meet up with friends for dinner, earn the vaccine reward, while those of us who were compliant *despite it being difficult for us, too,* would be at the back of the line. 

Heck I’m at the back of the line anyway, not sure what I’m growling about. 😂 Just getting off a little vent I guess. Like I said, I’ll be last, anyway. 
 

(ET clarify that I’ll be last on the priority list, not last because I’ll refuse a vaccine.)

All over the world, people quietly stay home during SIP and millions wear masks even before it is mandated in order to not transmit the virus. Our country had images of Spring breakers in Miami, AK47 rifles in protest rallies against masking, high school sports in high gear in the midst of climbing death tolls and overflowing ICUs, calling people who are cautious about covid “cowardly”. I vote for giving the vaccine to the social spreaders first if that would mean less damage to society. If we can prevent a thousand more deaths, I consider that a reward for society that is taking a hit from noncompliance.

[mathnerd]

30 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

This is presuming people with different needs than you are wicked.  Mental health needs and economic needs are very real.

 

Wearing a mask in public and following recommendations of local health officials is not much to ask even for people with mental health needs and economic needs.

[Danae]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

Apparently my husband may qualify for the 1a vaccine.  He does IT for a hospital but works 100% from home.  I’m honestly lividly angry because the hospital (a major monopoly in our area) has gotten enough vaccine to vaccinate all their workers, even the low risk ones, but I can guarantee that smaller nursing homes in our area will not be able to access the vaccine for their employees. So while selfishly, I am grateful my husband can get the vaccine, I feel like it’s not equitable or morally right.  

Like most things in the pandemic you have to think of it in terms of populations not individuals.  It would slow everything down and complicate things immensely to evaluate each individual’s risk level.  Instead you go by category. It would add time, process, and expense to skip your husband and circle back to him later.  

[mathnerd]

43 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

I am absolutely, truly in favor of whatever strategy brings about the swiftest end to the pandemic! Just lamenting a bit upthread. 

No worries. I understood your post the same way as well.

[Ausmumof3]

Panel is meeting to advise FDA on Moderna Vax on Thursday.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN28P1N4?__twitter_impression=true

I’d really like to know if there will be competition between to companies for vaccine supplies or if they use different enough stuff for this to be a non issue.

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, kand said:

 

I’m trying to think through whether this is any less likely to prevent spread than other vaccines. The vaccine itself can’t cause spread, because it doesn’t even contain the virus. The current ones only code for a spike protein on the outside of the virus. So, from that perspective, there’s no risk of direct spread like there is with a live vaccine. I guess the concern is that the recipient could develop immunity, but when exposed to wild SARS-CoV2, they might still be colonized by it and be able to transmit it (like with the pertussis vaccine), but just won’t get sick themself? Wouldn’t this mean that they would show up positive on a Covid test? In which case, the studies that are judging efficacy in part on serial Covid tests would likely discover this, wouldn’t they? 

There was a good explained on Coronacast a couple of weeks back.  In short some vaccines do prevent disease without preventing spread.  If that’s the case with this one the likely mechanism could be that the vaccine works well against Covid in the lower respiratory/lung area but not well against upper respiratory.  Meaning the disease is not happening in the lungs etc but shedding from the nose etc still can happen.

I do think that if this was likely to be the case some people would maybe have shown up in the trial in the vaccine arm with upper respiratory symptoms so I’m hopeful that it’s a non issue but we don’t know.

one of the trials (I believe Astra Zeneca but I’m going from memory) did work like this in primate studies where they didn’t become ill but did spread it, so I think that’s the reason for concern.

And yes if the vaccine makers did weekly PCR testing they should have been able to work this out.  I don’t know why they didn’t, seems like a cost saving measure or maybe it’s too hard to get volunteers to sign up for that.  

[Not_a_Number]

26 minutes ago, kand said:

I’m trying to think through whether this is any less likely to prevent spread than other vaccines. The vaccine itself can’t cause spread, because it doesn’t even contain the virus. The current ones only code for a spike protein on the outside of the virus. So, from that perspective, there’s no risk of direct spread like there is with a live vaccine. I guess the concern is that the recipient could develop immunity, but when exposed to wild SARS-CoV2, they might still be colonized by it and be able to transmit it (like with the pertussis vaccine), but just won’t get sick themself? Wouldn’t this mean that they would show up positive on a Covid test? In which case, the studies that are judging efficacy in part on serial Covid tests would likely discover this, wouldn’t they? 

I'm hoping you're right, and I rather expect you're right, but the amount of presymptomatic and asymptomatic spread does make it a little hard to think about. 

The question is whether it prevents infection or disease. I would guess they weren't testing people who weren't sick, right? In which case they wouldn't know if there were asymptomatic people in the trial. 

[Not_a_Number]

21 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

And yes if the vaccine makers did weekly PCR testing they should have been able to work this out.  I don’t know why they didn’t, seems like a cost saving measure or maybe it’s too hard to get volunteers to sign up for that.  

I really wish they had done this. But yes, maybe too hard to get people to participate then. 

[EmilyGF]

36 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

There was a good explained on Coronacast a couple of weeks back.  In short some vaccines do prevent disease without preventing spread.  If that’s the case with this one the likely mechanism could be that the vaccine works well against Covid in the lower respiratory/lung area but not well against upper respiratory.  Meaning the disease is not happening in the lungs etc but shedding from the nose etc still can happen.

I do think that if this was likely to be the case some people would maybe have shown up in the trial in the vaccine arm with upper respiratory symptoms so I’m hopeful that it’s a non issue but we don’t know.

one of the trials (I believe Astra Zeneca but I’m going from memory) did work like this in primate studies where they didn’t become ill but did spread it, so I think that’s the reason for concern.

And yes if the vaccine makers did weekly PCR testing they should have been able to work this out.  I don’t know why they didn’t, seems like a cost saving measure or maybe it’s too hard to get volunteers to sign up for that.  

I know one manufacturer does every 3-6 week nasal swabs, so that should give some info eventually, though it will take more time because they have to get enough data to analyze well. I think they didn't do this because they were going for *fast* and everything extra you do slows things down. Also, the goal was preventing severe disease and, at the beginning, people didn't even know that this would be possible. Even the TWIVers said yesterday that we're extremely lucky this vaccine is working out so well and that it is easy to think you were smart when really it was luck. Obviously a ton of research has gone into this, but some diseases defy vaccines (see HIV).

Emily

[JennyD]

Interview with head of clinical trials program.  

[vonfirmath]

53 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm hoping you're right, and I rather expect you're right, but the amount of presymptomatic and asymptomatic spread does make it a little hard to think about. 

The question is whether it prevents infection or disease. I would guess they weren't testing people who weren't sick, right? In which case they wouldn't know if there were asymptomatic people in the trial. 

It sounds like Moderna WAS checking for asymptomatic disease as well in some way.

[Not_a_Number]

9 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

It sounds like Moderna WAS checking for asymptomatic disease as well in some way.

Ah, OK. I'm not up on the details -- what were they doing? 

[Ausmumof3]

35 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

It sounds like Moderna WAS checking for asymptomatic disease as well in some way.

I hadn’t heard this so I did a quick search and came up with this

https://www.wsj.com/articles/modernas-covid-19-vaccine-is-next-in-line-for-authorization-11608028201?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/iZWpClcwEB

early data suggests that there were 2/3 less asymptomatic cases in vaccine recipients to placebo recipients.  Data was only from the first dose there was no data following the second dose.
 Edited to add

Conclusion was only based on one nasal swab per recipient so it’s probably a bit premature though promising 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[vonfirmath]

https://www.wired.com/story/new-vaccine-data-is-coming-watch-out-for-these-3-claims/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=onsite-share&utm_brand=wired&utm_social-type=earned&fbclid=IwAR0SRutgc-Y5UY19pkO7nA1p0j8UF1HWXxITUjjgse-Z3IZxEG_k-oIhygg  It appears that the Moderna vaccine may be more impactful to daily activities than we are used to vaccines being. (The PFizer too but the incidence of such side effects for Moderna seems to be greater)

 

This is not very surprising. We may eventually find that there are vaccines that do not have as many side effects. But a good enough vaccine now is much better than a better vaccine later. (A bird in the hand vs 2 in the bush)

[RootAnn]

19 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

 It appears that the Moderna vaccine may be more impactful to daily activities than we are used to vaccines being. (The PFizer too but the incidence of such side effects for Moderna seems to be greater)

This info is why I told DH he'd likely prefer the Pfizer to Moderna. [His work has been offered spots in stage 1c of our state's vaccination plan.] 

I think the more noticeable side effects, especially of Moderna's 2nd shot will be blown up in the media reports & social media if it is not explicitly stated multiple times to recipients. The side effects might be enough to keep some people from getting their second shot. Two days of fatigue & malaise is better than covid but some people will definitely be turned off...

[TCB]

I’m getting the Pfizer vaccine on Monday! I’m prepping myself for some side effects, so am glad I’ll have a few days to recover before Christmas.

[Shoeless]

41 minutes ago, TCB said:

I’m getting the Pfizer vaccine on Monday! I’m prepping myself for some side effects, so am glad I’ll have a few days to recover before Christmas.

Aw yeah!!!! What a great Christmas present!  Congrats!!!

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, TCB said:

I’m getting the Pfizer vaccine on Monday! I’m prepping myself for some side effects, so am glad I’ll have a few days to recover before Christmas.

It is SO exciting to hear about people actually getting the vaccine!! Keep us updated!!! 

[TCB]

25 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

Aw yeah!!!! What a great Christmas present!  Congrats!!!

Thanks! I’m really glad! If I could give it to someone who is high risk I would absolutely pass and let them have it, but unfortunately not possible. Not sure there is going to be great uptake of it around here, so hoping me doing it helps pave the way for others.

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

It is SO exciting to hear about people actually getting the vaccine!! Keep us updated!!! 

I will update once I’ve had it!

[wathe]

1 hour ago, TCB said:

I’m getting the Pfizer vaccine on Monday! I’m prepping myself for some side effects, so am glad I’ll have a few days to recover before Christmas.

Yay!  I'm still a few weeks away. 

[JennyD]

1 hour ago, TCB said:

I’m getting the Pfizer vaccine on Monday! I’m prepping myself for some side effects, so am glad I’ll have a few days to recover before Christmas.

Hurrah!!!!!!  This is wonderful news.

[JennyD]

Sorry I can't seem to find the direct link to this priority list for the vaccine roll-out in Wales.  I see that the JCVI advises UK health departments but I don't know if they'll all be following this.

This largely age-based prioritization scheme is quite different from what's being planned in the US.  It certainly seems a whole lot easier to administer and less subject to political manipulation, at least.  

[TCB]

1 hour ago, wathe said:

Yay!  I'm still a few weeks away. 

Glad it won’t be too long for you too!

[TCB]

1 hour ago, JennyD said:

Sorry I can't seem to find the direct link to this priority list for the vaccine roll-out in Wales.  I see that the JCVI advises UK health departments but I don't know if they'll all be following this.

This largely age-based prioritization scheme is quite different from what's being planned in the US.  It certainly seems a whole lot easier to administer and less subject to political manipulation, at least.  

I, personally, think it would be better and more sensible, to vaccinate the high risk people first. I wish it was going to be like that here, especially as we don’t know how well, or even if, the vaccine prevents infection, so we don’t know if vaccinating HCWs will help protect our patients.

However, I’m concerned that people won’t get vaccinated, so I don’t necessarily think that me getting a dose is keeping it from someone, but rather the priority system is. I know at my place of work there are only a few of us who have signed up so far. I can tell you that many who I know, who don’t want to have it, know next to nothing about it, and seem to have done what little research they have done on FB. I’m hoping it might be an encouragement to consider it further if I, and some of my colleagues, get it.

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, TCB said:

I, personally, think it would be better and more sensible, to vaccinate the high risk people first. I wish it was going to be like that here, especially as we don’t know how well, or even if, the vaccine prevents infection, so we don’t know if vaccinating HCWs will help protect our patients.

However, I’m concerned that people won’t get vaccinated, so I don’t necessarily think that me getting a dose is keeping it from someone, but rather the priority system is. I know at my place of work there are only a few of us who have signed up so far. I can tell you that many who I know, who don’t want to have it, know next to nothing about it, and seem to have done what little research they have done on FB. I’m hoping it might be an encouragement to consider it further if I, and some of my colleagues, get it.

Sigh. I'm sad no one wants it where you are 😞 .

This is making me think of this XKCD:

https://xkcd.com/2397/

Edited December 17, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[TCB]

Just another thought on the protective effect of HCWs like me getting vaccinated - It may prove helpful in the future, but at the moment it would make little difference. In the last 2-3 months I have only looked after a non-Covid patient 1 day. Every other day I’ve worked, I have had all Covid patients, so not really been around those needing protection from me lol.

[Not_a_Number]

21 minutes ago, TCB said:

Just another thought on the protective effect of HCWs like me getting vaccinated - It may prove helpful in the future, but at the moment it would make little difference. In the last 2-3 months I have only looked after a non-Covid patient 1 day. Every other day I’ve worked, I have had all Covid patients, so not really been around those needing protection from me lol.

Ooof. So you need protection, not them... 

[JennyD]

32 minutes ago, TCB said:

I, personally, think it would be better and more sensible, to vaccinate the high risk people first. I wish it was going to be like that here, especially as we don’t know how well, or even if, the vaccine prevents infection, so we don’t know if vaccinating HCWs will help protect our patients.

However, I’m concerned that people won’t get vaccinated, so I don’t necessarily think that me getting a dose is keeping it from someone, but rather the priority system is. I know at my place of work there are only a few of us who have signed up so far. I can tell you that many who I know, who don’t want to have it, know next to nothing about it, and seem to have done what little research they have done on FB. I’m hoping it might be an encouragement to consider it further if I, and some of my colleagues, get it.

I personally am quite happy that heath care workers like yourself are at the top of the priority list.  I feel like as a country it is the very least we can do for the people who have quite literally been keeping us alive.

I was intrigued by the strict age-based system down the line, though.  It just seems so much workable.

[KeriJ]

46 minutes ago, TCB said:

Just another thought on the protective effect of HCWs like me getting vaccinated - It may prove helpful in the future, but at the moment it would make little difference. In the last 2-3 months I have only looked after a non-Covid patient 1 day. Every other day I’ve worked, I have had all Covid patients, so not really been around those needing protection from me lol.

Because you are with Covid patients so much, you deserve to be protected. 

[frogger]

2 hours ago, TCB said:

 I can tell you that many who I know, who don’t want to have it, know next to nothing about it, and seem to have done what little research they have done on FB. I’m hoping it might be an encouragement to consider it further if I, and some of my colleagues, get it.

Yes, I'm thinking herd immunity is a joke. The best we are going to be able to do is open up more nursing and med schools. I have 6 parents (including in laws and step parents). 4 I know already will refuse to get it and I don't know about the other two. Does One America News Network support vaccines? Cause that would give me my answer.  I don't know whether to laugh (in a manical not funny way) or cry. 🤷

Edited December 17, 2020 by frogger
Just word changes. Auto correct is killing me.

[JennyD]

I recall that immunosuppressed folks have come up on this thread.  Very anecdotal, but a friend of mine recently had a kidney transplant at a major US medical center, and his doctors told him that they believe it is safe for him to take the vaccine three months post surgery.  (Presumably they were talking about the Pfizer vaccine but I don't know the details.)

The big question, however, is whether a vaccine will work for him.  He will need to take an antibody test afterwards to see if his body has made antibodies against the virus.

Obviously nobody knows anything for sure, but FWIW that's what's being recommended to him at the moment.

[kbutton]

7 hours ago, TCB said:

I’m getting the Pfizer vaccine on Monday! I’m prepping myself for some side effects, so am glad I’ll have a few days to recover before Christmas.

Yay! DH might be able to get it next week. He’s watching his email. 

Locally people are sharing crazy stuff about the vaccine even while family members are recovering, so don’t feel bad about being at the front of the line. They could ask a healthcare worker about the vaccine, but apparently it’s better to be open minded and share nonsense instead.

Meanwhile the youth group is back to mostly being over masking after a brief couple of weeks making an attempt to mask.

The county we’re in and the neighboring county are still really high in cases even though the state’s numbers are a bit lower than they were.

 

[Ausmumof3]

Stuff on protection against asymptomatic protection or not and what that means for strategies for roll out.  

[frogger]

2 hours ago, kbutton said:

Yay! DH might be able to get it next week. He’s watching his email. 

Locally people are sharing crazy stuff about the vaccine even while family members are recovering, so don’t feel bad about being at the front of the line. They could ask a healthcare worker about the vaccine, but apparently it’s better to be open minded and share nonsense instead.

Meanwhile the youth group is back to mostly being over masking after a brief couple of weeks making an attempt to mask.

The county we’re in and the neighboring county are still really high in cases even though the state’s numbers are a bit lower than they were.

 

Well, my step mother's source of info IS a healthcare worker. She says that they aren't seeing the people with flu etc because it's all "Covid" because the hospital makes more money with Covid so they just call everything Covid. So then what.

[mlktwins]

My sister works in a hospital and she is getting her first dose today.  I am so happy for her.

I have not been following this thread as closely as I should, and need to get caught up, but does anyone have any information on any of the vaccine's for kids?  My boys are both 15.5 this month.

[vonfirmath]

7 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

My sister works in a hospital and she is getting her first dose today.  I am so happy for her.

I have not been following this thread as closely as I should, and need to get caught up, but does anyone have any information on any of the vaccine's for kids?  My boys are both 15.5 this month.

No vaccine is okay'd for kids younger than 16 yet. They did OK Pfizer for kids age 16 and over but it was done based on a small amount of data so you might want to take a look at it.

 

[ktgrok]

18 hours ago, TCB said:

Just another thought on the protective effect of HCWs like me getting vaccinated - It may prove helpful in the future, but at the moment it would make little difference. In the last 2-3 months I have only looked after a non-Covid patient 1 day. Every other day I’ve worked, I have had all Covid patients, so not really been around those needing protection from me lol.

It help because if too many HCW get sick with Covid and can't work, more people will die for lack of care. So I want those HCW protected! Including you! Plus, you are more exposed, so deserve protection to protect yourself and your family. Plus if you are vaccinated (and it prevents actual transmission) it means those you see at the grocery store, etc are safer to be around you. 

12 hours ago, frogger said:

Well, my step mother's source of info IS a healthcare worker. She says that they aren't seeing the people with flu etc because it's all "Covid" because the hospital makes more money with Covid so they just call everything Covid. So then what.

Ugh. I'd be tempted to ask what part of the billing process she works in where she sees the payments for this covid bonus or whatever the heck people think it is. 

[frogger]

5 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

It help because if too many HCW get sick with Covid and can't work, more people will die for lack of care. So I want those HCW protected! Including you! Plus, you are more exposed, so deserve protection to protect yourself and your family. Plus if you are vaccinated (and it prevents actual transmission) it means those you see at the grocery store, etc are safer to be around you. 

Ugh. I'd be tempted to ask what part of the billing process she works in where she sees the payments for this covid bonus or whatever the heck people think it is. 

She is an anesthesiologist family member. So she is claiming that everyone she sees supposedly has Covid but that really it might be something else because it makes more sense to just claim it is covid. You can see why step mom is confused. I don't work in a hospital so she thinks I'm just duped. It's understandable considering her source.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, frogger said:

She is an anesthesiologist family member. So she is claiming that everyone she sees supposedly has Covid but that really it might be something else because it makes more sense to just claim it is covid. You can see why step mom is confused. I don't work in a hospital so she thinks I'm just duped. It's understandable considering her source.

So..as an anesthesiologist she isn't seeing the billing side, to have any basis for her claim that they hospital makes more money by claiming it is covid even if it isn't. I'm sure she doesn't get paid more! Maybe remind this other person of that fact. 

[frogger]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

So..as an anesthesiologist she isn't seeing the billing side, to have any basis for her claim that they hospital makes more money by claiming it is covid even if it isn't. I'm sure she doesn't get paid more! Maybe remind this other person of that fact. 

There actually is a partial truth to the payments but it isn't across the board and there are a lot of variables by location, treatment etc. 

 

But, it is interesting that she sees all these patients unable to breath but still thinks it's political and some of these patients must have different things. I'd think if there is more people working at once, then individual workers would see less of other things and more Covid just because there is more Covid going around and the regular number of other patients are spread out more. Combine that with the whole protecting the elderly thing and of course, flu will be hitting the vulnerable less. It actually all makes sense but I have become profoundly aware of the lack of critical thinking in the American population.