The Vaccine Thread

[lynn]

Since we are not high risk we are waiting until we see how everyone else does say 6 months  from now.  we'll know which one to get and which to stay away from.  

[vonfirmath]

5 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

We could look this up, I'm sure 😄 . 

I've been reading about viruses with DD8 for all of last year. (Right now, our science work is a graphic novel about DNA!) So I'm suddenly quite well-informed on viruses. 

DD8 asked to study viruses back in November of 2019. Also, she asked to be a virus for Purim, in an ill-fated costume that shall never be worn 😉 . We were apparently ahead of our time... 

My then 8 year old's Science Fair project last January (January 2020) was a model of how the cell (animal) works.  Including going into great detail about DNA, RNA, and mRNA. So this year has definitely had a surreal quality.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, vonfirmath said:

My then 8 year old's Science Fair project last January (January 2020) was a model of how the cell (animal) works.  Including going into great detail about DNA, RNA, and mRNA. So this year has definitely had a surreal quality.

Ooh, join the psychic cub, lol! 

[popmom]

5 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

By the way, I've been paying attention to the Bloomberg vaccine map, and the US is doing better that almost anywhere else for vaccinating. Any idea what we did right here? Did we allow the vaccines earlier? Is there something else going on? 

I’m curious, too, because the US wasn’t the first to approve. The UK was a at least a week ahead of us. They are the same shade of green that the US is in their graphic. My guess is other countries were slower to approve combined with supply chain/logistical challenges in different parts of the world. Although Fedex is pretty much worldwide now. 

ETA the combination of not just delayed approval due to safety concerns—but the countries may not have gotten orders in as quickly as the US. While op warp speed didn’t fund biontech, they did commit way ahead of time to buy 100s of millions of doses.

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by popmom

[Not_a_Number]

16 minutes ago, popmom said:

I’m curious, too, because the US wasn’t the first to approve. The UK was a at least a week ahead of us. They are the same shade of green that the US is in their graphic. My guess is other countries were slower to approve combined with supply chain/logistical challenges in different parts of the world. Although Fedex is pretty much worldwide now. 

ETA the combination of not just delayed approval due to safety concerns—but the countries may not have gotten orders in as quickly as the US. 

The UK is definitely ahead of us, though. The graph isn't great with the shadings. 

[Junie]

I think it's so awesome that this town's mayor called in a Chick-fil-a manager when he saw that the Covid vaccine drive-thru wasn't working properly. 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/31/us/chick-fil-a-drive-thru-covid-vaccine-trnd/index.html

[popmom]

22 minutes ago, Junie said:

I think it's so awesome that this town's mayor called in a Chick-fil-a manager when he saw that the Covid vaccine drive-thru wasn't working properly. 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/31/us/chick-fil-a-drive-thru-covid-vaccine-trnd/index.html

Yes! I love it! Because we’ve all seen the memes about carpool, etc! 😂

I’d say privatize the whole operation. Let chick fil a and fedex bid the job. Who else? Oh, Amazon, of course. Heck—give each of them a contract! They’d straighten this out.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, popmom said:

I’d say privatize the whole operation. Let chick fil a and fedex bid the job. Who else? Oh, Amazon, of course. Heck—give each of them a contract! They’d straighten this out.

I think large-scale logistics are honestly pretty hard. It takes experience not to screw it up. 

[popmom]

14 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think large-scale logistics are honestly pretty hard. It takes experience not to screw it up. 

🤔 Amazon and Fedex specialize in large scale logistics. Then bring in The Chick on the local level. 

Put The Chick people, the FedEx people, and the Amazon people in a room and let them figure it out. They WOULD figure it out. 🙂

Meanwhile, it seems that in my state, the powers that be decided to bring in the Burger King and Taco Bell people because it’s not going great here so far. 😉

Edited February 1, 2021 by popmom

[Laura Corin]

2 hours ago, popmom said:

I’m curious, too, because the US wasn’t the first to approve. The UK was a at least a week ahead of us. They are the same shade of green that the US is in their graphic. My guess is other countries were slower to approve combined with supply chain/logistical challenges in different parts of the world. Although Fedex is pretty much worldwide now. 

ETA the combination of not just delayed approval due to safety concerns—but the countries may not have gotten orders in as quickly as the US. While op warp speed didn’t fund biontech, they did commit way ahead of time to buy 100s of millions of doses.

 

The UK has vaccinated about 50 percent more people than the US by head of population. Almost one percent of the UK population was vaccinated on Saturday alone. It's the one thing we seem to have gotten organised, probably because the NHS structures were already in place. This graph is clearer than some news sources.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Eta this is a fun article 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/31/industralised-vaccine-behind-scenes-at-newcastle-covid-operation?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Edited February 1, 2021 by Laura Corin

[popmom]

2 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

The UK has vaccinated about 50 percent more people than the US by head of population. Almost one percent of the UK population was vaccinated on Saturday alone. It's the one thing we seem to have gotten organised, probably because the NHS structures were already in place. This graph is clearer than some news sources.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

That’s fantastic!

[mathnerd]

11 minutes ago, popmom said:

Amazon and Fedex specialize in large scale logistics. Then bring in The Chick on the local level. 

Put The Chick people, the FedEx people, and the Amazon people in a room and let them figure it out. They WOULD figure it out. 🙂

If the vaccines were delivered (by Amazon) to CVS pharmacies or Walgreens, they have the refrigeration needed and the employees with training to get the job done considering they already offer flu vaccines onsite. If city governments are struggling like this, then, it makes sense to get the right persons involved.

[Not_a_Number]

16 minutes ago, popmom said:

Put The Chick people, the FedEx people, and the Amazon people in a room and let them figure it out. They WOULD figure it out. 🙂

I wish Amazon would figure out its darn website first. That thing is a dinosaur. It's so annoying to navigate. Plus, half the things on there are a Chinese knockoff... 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

If the vaccines were delivered (by Amazon) to CVS pharmacies or Walgreens, they have the refrigeration needed and the employees with training to get the job done considering they already offer flu vaccines onsite. If city governments are struggling like this, then, it makes sense to get the right persons involved.

Are they having trouble delivering stuff to pharmacies? I haven't been paying careful attention. 

I remember seeing somewhere that places with independent pharmacies were doing better than places that just have Walgreens and CVS. 

[popmom]

3 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

If the vaccines were delivered (by Amazon) to CVS pharmacies or Walgreens, they have the refrigeration needed and the employees with training to get the job done considering they already offer flu vaccines onsite. If city governments are struggling like this, then, it makes sense to get the right persons involved.

I wish I had faith that CVS and Walgreens could pull this off efficiently, but realistically, pharmacies aren’t known for being efficient. Accurate...yes. Efficient...no. Just look at their COVID testing. There’s definitely room for improvement there. So I do think some sort of collaboration would be helpful. 

[mathnerd]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Are they having trouble delivering stuff to pharmacies? I haven't been paying careful attention. 

I remember seeing somewhere that places with independent pharmacies were doing better than places that just have Walgreens and CVS. 

I meant that the local CVS and Walgreens would do a much better job than the local senior centers, the Parks and Recs departments and sports stadia trying to be efficient vaccine sites. The CVS's and Walgreens already have what it takes to do this job.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, popmom said:

I wish I had faith that CVS and Walgreens could pull this off efficiently, but realistically, pharmacies aren’t known for being efficient. Accurate...yes. Efficient...no. Just look at their COVID testing. There’s definitely room for improvement there. So I do think some sort of collaboration would be helpful. 

What would you like Chick-Fil-A to actually do here? I think it makes a lot of sense to help them figure out drive-throughs, since that's their expertise: they know where the weak points are. How are they supposed to help with pharmacies, though? 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, mathnerd said:

I meant that the local CVS and Walgreens would do a much better job than the local senior centers, the Parks and Recs departments and sports stadia trying to be efficient vaccine sites. The CVS's and Walgreens already have what it takes to do this job.

Did they already get some vaccines, though? I haven't been keeping track, to be honest. 

[vonfirmath]

10 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

If the vaccines were delivered (by Amazon) to CVS pharmacies or Walgreens, they have the refrigeration needed and the employees with training to get the job done considering they already offer flu vaccines onsite. If city governments are struggling like this, then, it makes sense to get the right persons involved.

CVS and Walgreens have the deep cold refrigeration needed by these vaccines?

[popmom]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

What would you like Chick-Fil-A to actually do here? I think it makes a lot of sense to help them figure out drive-throughs, since that's their expertise: they know where the weak points are. How are they supposed to help with pharmacies, though? 

In the same way! Get people in and out. Just like they did in SC.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, popmom said:

In the same way! Get people in and out. Just like they did in SC.

Oh, I see. So manage the lines better? That probably wouldn't hurt. 

I think the thing that would make a lot of sense is actually centralizing it a bit more so that no one ever had to do paperwork in person and appointments could be found in obvious places, as opposed to scouring random collections of websites. I think places that already had easier ways to organize this wound up doing quite a lot better -- both the UK and Israel have centralized healthcare, for example, and I think that helped keep track of stuff. 

So, making a central database then having people with line expertise managing things would make sense, I think. 

[popmom]

21 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

I meant that the local CVS and Walgreens would do a much better job than the local senior centers, the Parks and Recs departments and sports stadia trying to be efficient vaccine sites. The CVS's and Walgreens already have what it takes to do this job.

See I actually don’t think they will be any better. They haven’t been with testing. What do you mean they have what it takes to do the job? Who will fill my prescriptions if all the pharmacists are giving shots? Are they actively recruiting right now? Who knows? 

Edited February 1, 2021 by popmom

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, popmom said:

See I actually don’t think they will be any better. They haven’t been with testing. What do you mean they have what it takes to do the job? Who will fill my prescriptions if all the pharmacists are giving shots. Are they actively recruiting right now? Who knows? 

Well, they have the storage and the medical knowledge... you kind of need that stuff. It's not like you could avoid using medical professionals for this. 

[Drama Llama]

13 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

If the vaccines were delivered (by Amazon) to CVS pharmacies or Walgreens, they have the refrigeration needed and the employees with training to get the job done considering they already offer flu vaccines onsite. If city governments are struggling like this, then, it makes sense to get the right persons involved.

I didn’t think pharmacies had the super cold storage.  I think that the health department here is bringing it each day from facilities that do? I could be wrong.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, BaseballandHockey said:

I didn’t think pharmacies had the super cold storage.  I think that the health department here is bringing it each day from facilities that do? I could be wrong.

Hmmm, interesting point. If that's the case, then I guess you don't need to run it out of pharmacies, except you do need people who can give shots. 

[popmom]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Well, they have the storage and the medical knowledge... you kind of need that stuff. It's not like you could avoid using medical professionals for this. 

I’d rather have a nurse give my shot. I’d love to see a news story about all the ways CVS is strategizing and recruiting nurses to do this. It’s a lot to expect on top of continued testing—slow, inefficient testing to belabor the point.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, popmom said:

I’d rather have a nurse give my shot. I’d love to see a news story about all the ways CVS is strategizing and recruiting nurses to do this. It’s a lot to expect on top of continued testing—slow, inefficient testing to belabor the point.

Sure, nurses would be good. Nurses tend to have jobs, though. And right now, nurses are pretty busy. 

[popmom]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Sure, nurses would be good. Nurses tend to have jobs, though. And right now, nurses are pretty busy. 

So who else do we have? I’m not sure what your point is. I’m mean it’s not hard to give a shot. So why are we not seeing training programs popping up. Couldn’t CVS develop something like that and actively recruit?

Edited February 1, 2021 by popmom

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, popmom said:

So who else do we have? I’m not sure what your point is.

Well, pharmacists... 

[popmom]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Well, pharmacists... 

I edited my comment. Because I need my pharmacist to fill my meds! lol

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, popmom said:

I’m mean it’s not hard to give a shot.

I've never given one. So I have no clue how hard it is. I don't want Burger King employees giving me one, that I do know 😛 . 

[popmom]

Also pharmacists have jobs, too and are BUSY as ever lol

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, popmom said:

Also pharmacists have jobs, too and are BUSY as ever lol

I do think there's an issue with a shortage of people who can vaccinate others right now. It's all very disjointed. If one could run fewer locations more smoothly, that would probably be more efficient. 

We should take a look at what Israel did 😄 . Of course, they had a lot more vaccine bought per population, too! 

[Drama Llama]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I've never given one. So I have no clue how hard it is. I don't want Burger King employees giving me one, that I do know 😛 . 

I’ve given a ton.  It’s really not that hard.  But the actual give a shot part is fast.  You need people to do paperwork and a medical professional in case of a reaction.

[popmom]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

I've never given one. So I have no clue how hard it is. I don't want Burger King employees giving me one, that I do know 😛 . 

Hey—my grandfather gave shots in WW2. He had no medical experience whatsoever prior. If the Burger King employee goes through proper training, I’ve got no problem with it. I’ve given myself many, many subcutaneous injections. There’s a little more involved with an IM, but it’s not HARD.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, BaseballandHockey said:

I’ve given a ton.  It’s really not that hard.  But the actual give a shot part is fast.  You need people to do paperwork and a medical professional in case of a reaction.

Ah, good point -- there are allergic reactions and whatnot. 

And they probably do want to follow people who are vaccinated for a bit, to get safety data? I'm really not sure what exactly the hold ups are right now. Honestly, I think the biggest issue I've read about is just pure amounts -- we only have so much. 

[mathnerd]

22 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

CVS and Walgreens have the deep cold refrigeration needed by these vaccines?

I think so. There are a lot of medication that require refrigeration and pharmacies would have them. I even got liquid nitrogen from one a long time ago! They also seem to have trained people giving flu and shingles shot (don’t know if they are nurses).

Edited February 1, 2021 by mathnerd

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, mathnerd said:

I think so. There are absolutely a lot of medication that require refrigeration and pharmacies would have them. I even got liquid nitrogen from one a long time ago!

But this is extra cold refrigeration, though. I remember there being concerns about it. 

[TravelingChris]

On 1/29/2021 at 8:20 PM, MissLemon said:

I feel like Charlie finding the Golden Ticket, lol

 

Are you high risk? Or what is Texas doing?

[Frances]

20 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

If the vaccines were delivered (by Amazon) to CVS pharmacies or Walgreens, they have the refrigeration needed and the employees with training to get the job done considering they already offer flu vaccines onsite. If city governments are struggling like this, then, it makes sense to get the right persons involved.

But as we’ve seen, states like WV that didn’t go with the federal government contract with Walgreens and CVS, and instead used small, local pharmacies vaccinated their long term care population much, much faster. What incentive did Walgreens and CVS really have to deliver quickly after they already had the contracts in hand? On the other hand, local pharmacies that already had relationships with these facilities and didn’t want to lose them had every incentive to get it done in a timely manner.
Several of the large chain pharmacies already treat their staff atrociously and put customers at risk for medication errors due to major understaffing in order to squeeze profits. I certainly don’t trust them to bring staffing to adequate levels to handle a rush of people wanting vaccines.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/health/pharmacists-medication-errors.html

Plus, the few times my husband and I have had to get shots at pharmacies because our employer didn’t offer them and we didn’t want to go to the doctor just for a shot, the process was anything but efficient. I’m fine with pharmacy chains being one part of the equation, especially for those who want that experience, but I can’t imagine them pulling off anything at the scale and level of organization and efficiency that my local non profit hospital did when they organized massive ongoing clinics (400+ shots per hour) for the two counties in which they operate. Their only real issue has been a lack of steady supply of vaccines.

[Shoeless]

3 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Are you high risk? Or what is Texas doing?

Texas is vaccinating 1a and 1b people (chronic health issues that are considered high risk in people age 16+, anyone over age 65).  I fall under 1b chronic health issues. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by MissLemon

[Laura Corin]

10 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

Texas is vaccinating 1a and 1b people (chronic health issues that are considered high risk in people age 16+, anyone over age 65).  I fall under 1b chronic health issues. 

I didn't realise the categories in some states were so broad. The UK has gone in the other direction - extremely narrow sequential categories,  and inviting people individually to come in. My 65 yo brother won't be called in for some weeks, but all nursing home residents have now been offered vaccination, as well as - I believe - most over eighties. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Laura Corin

[TravelingChris]

33 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I didn’t think pharmacies had the super cold storage.  I think that the health department here is bringing it each day from facilities that do? I could be wrong.

A local independent pharmacy did get one. I know/

[popmom]

13 minutes ago, Frances said:

But as we’ve seen, states like WV that didn’t go with the federal government contract with Walgreens and CVS, and instead used small, local pharmacies vaccinated their long term care population much, much faster. What incentive did Walgreens and CVS really have to deliver quickly after they already had the contracts in hand? On the other hand, local pharmacies that already had relationships with these facilities and didn’t want to lose them had every incentive to get it done in a timely manner.
Several of the large chain pharmacies already treat their staff atrociously and put customers at risk for medication errors due to major understaffing in order to squeeze profits. I certainly don’t trust them to bring staffing to adequate levels to handle a rush of people wanting vaccines.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/health/pharmacists-medication-errors.html

Plus, the few times my husband and I have had to get shots at pharmacies because our employer didn’t offer them and we didn’t want to go to the doctor just for a shot, the process was anything but efficient. I’m fine with pharmacy chains being one part of the equation, especially for those who want that experience, but I can’t imagine them pulling off anything at the scale and level of organization and efficiency that my local non profit hospital did when they organized massive ongoing clinics (400+ shots per hour) for the two counties in which they operate. Their only real issue has been a lack of steady supply of vaccines.

Exactly—You explained this so much better than me! 

Edited February 1, 2021 by popmom

[TravelingChris]

10 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

Texas is vaccinating 1a and 1b people (chronic health issues that are considered high risk in people age 16+, anyone over age 65).  I fall under 1b chronic health issues. 

I am calling tomorrow and talking to my concierge doctor tomorrow because in Alabama, high risk is supposed to be 1c.  Well the governor just expanded to the other people in 1c- 65+, and high risk workers but didn't mention high risk, chronically ill people and their caretakers.

[Shoeless]

 

5 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

I didn't realise the categories in some states were so broad. The UK has gone in the other direction - extremely narrow sequential categories,  and inviting people individually to come in. My 65 yo brother won't be called in for some weeks, but all nursing home residents have now been offered vaccination, as well as - I believe - most over eighties. 

Every state seems to be putting their own twist on who gets vaccinated. I just looked at the CDC recommendations, and Texas isn't following them. But...I think Texas is prioritizing correctly, and I'm not saying that because it benefits me. Texas is vaccinating health care workers, care home residents, and first responders. Then they opened it up to over 65 and over 16 at-risk. This deviates from the CDC plan, which said that all essential workers should go before younger at-risk people. Under the CDC guidelines, you could have healthy 25 year old grocery store employees getting vaccinated before 60 year old diabetics or COPD patients, which seems terrible, IMO. 

[Shoeless]

14 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I am calling tomorrow and talking to my concierge doctor tomorrow because in Alabama, high risk is supposed to be 1c.  Well the governor just expanded to the other people in 1c- 65+, and high risk workers but didn't mention high risk, chronically ill people and their caretakers.

I hope you can get in for a vaccine ASAP. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by MissLemon

[Frances]

Just now, MissLemon said:

 

Every state seems to be putting their own twist on who gets vaccinated. I just looked at the CDC recommendations, and Texas isn't following them. But...I think Texas is prioritizing correctly, and I'm not saying that because it benefits me. Texas is vaccinating health care workers, care home residents, and first responders. Then they opened it up to over 65 and over 16 at-risk. This deviates from the CDC plan, which said that all essential workers should go before younger at-risk people. Under the CDC guidelines, you could have healthy 25 year old grocery store employees getting vaccinated before 60 year old diabetics or COPD patients, which seems terrible, IMO. 

And there’s my state where many are upset that teachers were prioritized over the elderly so that schools can maybe reopen this school year. But the teachers’ unions did not want to be prioritized.

[Shoeless]

16 minutes ago, Frances said:

And there’s my state where many are upset that teachers were prioritized over the elderly so that schools can maybe reopen this school year. But the teachers’ unions did not want to be prioritized.

Augh, yeah, I don't agree with that. I think the elderly and vulnerable need to be prioritized. They are more likely to end up hospitalized or dead. 

[Laura Corin]

3 hours ago, MissLemon said:

Augh, yeah, I don't agree with that. I think the elderly and vulnerable need to be prioritized. They are more likely to end up hospitalized or dead. 

The UK list is based strictly on preventing death. I believe the first four categories will have been offered vaccination by the middle of February. 

ETA: I'm in group 8; my husband is in group 7.  That's fine.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Laura Corin