Not sure we can keep HS

[~Sunny~]

I am at my witts end. DD does not want to mind. Her handwriting is horrible and I make her do it over and over and still she won't do it right. She plays instead of doing school. She gives the answers wrong at times just because she is not trying (like telling me what time it is at 3:30 she said 20 60 or something like that.) She refuses to mind me. Half the time she is great other times she is horrible. I have no idea what to do. DH keeps talking to her and nothing is working. Dh said today she needs to go to PS. He has been saying this for awhile. He is afraid that she isn't learning since she is acting like this. I just want to cry I am so frustrated.

[Pam in MA]

At that age I would expect very little formal school work; playing games, reading stories, building blocks and art projects, and a small amount of handwriting work. . . ten minutes a day. Maybe some phonics. Maybe some math. It should be fun, fun, fun. Field trips, time outdoors looking at nature. I wouldn't expect a 5 yo to sit in a seat doing school work for more than 30 minutes at a stretch.

[Closeacademy]

This is normal behavior for the 5 to 6 year old.

 

The 4 year old or preK child loves to do workbooks and cut and paste and have fun doing "school" with you.

 

Around age 5 they get this button that flip and tells them that they don't want to do the work any more. They get silly, cry, throw tantrums and otherwise show displays of I can't or will not do the work.

 

If you have family that is supportive of homeschooling then I would tell you to back off, play with manipulatives, watch educational programming, do crafts, cook, play outside, observe nature, have her follow and help in your daily work, read books together and enjoy this time. Pick up school work when she wants to do it or in a few months from now when she is ready for it.

 

It sounds like you don't though and so the other option is to reasses what you are using. Is it too easy? too hard? Not fun? too fun? Is she making progress? Is she bored? Are you bored? Is this what you really want to do/study right now? Then I would set some goals, ask her what she wants to study, focus on phonics, penmanship and math and let her learn about things that she likes until she is more open to learning what maybe is on your checklist. You could even alternate between a topic she likes and one you feel you must cover this year.

 

Good luck and I hope things work out well.:001_smile:

[Quiver0f10]

Well she is only 5 so I don't blame her for not wanting to do school :D

 

Maybe back off off formal school and just do fun stuff. Go for walks, color, paint, do nature studies. Go to the library, the museum, the art gallery and so on.

 

Keep any school you do at this age very short. No more than 10-15 minutes per subject. I try to do one subject such as math and then something fun then another subject. That way there is plenty of time in between for breaks and fun.

[elegantlion]

At that age I would expect very little formal school work; playing games, reading stories, building blocks and art projects, and a small amount of handwriting work. . . ten minutes a day. Maybe some phonics. Maybe some math. It should be fun, fun, fun. Field trips, time outdoors looking at nature. I wouldn't expect a 5 yo to sit in a seat doing school work for more than 30 minutes at a stretch.

 

:iagree:I'm sure some more will chime in, but at 5 school work should take a small portion of the day.

[MrsMe]

She's only 5. Part of hs especially at 5 is learning to learn. We went through the same things. So I backed off and just did fun things; games, cut and paste, blocks, reading stories. My dd wasn't ready to do anything school till she was almost 7 and she made up for lost time.

 

So dump the "school" and start playing!!!!:lol:

[Lori D.]

Agreeing with the other posters... And just want to add: Abeka is advanced (usually a grade ahead) and very formal and structured. Perhaps it is not the right fit for your daughter and her age? Perhaps consider something less structured for right now, such as Five in a Row? (see it at: http://www.fiarhq.com/) Also, what about some homeschool support -- perhaps see if there are 2-3 other families with young ones who homeschool that you could get together with once a week for a park day, hike, do a craft together, do a little "show and tell" presentation, and let the little ones play while moms encourage one another.

 

Another idea: with the holiday season upon us, this might be the perfect time to focus on baking and crafts, practicing charity through giving of time (and gifts) to others, preparing hearts, and other attitude and life lessons in a season that is fun and exciting and facilitates all of that.

 

Just a thought! (((Sunny))) hugs and encouragement to you! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

because it wasn't available to my mom in the good ol' days...

 

I didn't miss it at all. I was reading at a 8th grade level when I was in 3rd grade.

 

Please, please, let up on your child. No 5 year old should be frustrated over HANDWRITING!! Hand her some fat pencil and have her trace lines and do dot-to-dots. Put away the math books and have her count toys, catagorize them into colors, shapes, etc. Play letter games - have her search for A's on her cereal box, find things that begin with the "B" sound, etc. Read to her and enjoy her. Schooling should not be filled with tears.

 

hth,

K

[SBP]

Hi Sunny -

 

I see from your sig that your DD is 5. Some five year olds are ready for writing and some just aren't. Fine motor skills are still developing at that age, and the fact that her handwriting is horrible doesn't necessarily mean she isn't trying or isn't being cooperative. It might just be that she's not ready for that much writing.

 

As for not minding, I do think this is something that needs to be addressed - firmly - if you plan to continue homeschooling. I don't know your situation, so some of my advice might be way off base. Please know that I'm not judging you - just passing along some things I've learned over the years and have found helpful in organizing my own homeschool.

 

1. I realized many years ago that I could not expect my children to be disciplined about their school work if I was undisciplined. Homeschooling is my job. Period. I have to approach it with the same work ethic that I would approach a paying job that I got up and went to every single day. That means that I do not start late, I do not blow it off on days that I don't feel like doing it, I do not allow my work environment (my home) to be a cluttered mess, I do not come to the "office" (my dining room table) unprepared and disorganized. I also don't answer the phone in the middle of lessons, don't volunteer for projects or run errands that will disrupt our school day - don't do anything, basically, that will send my children the message that there is something more important than their school work. If I did send my children to school, I would be outraged if the teacher took personal phone calls in the middle of their lessons or dashed out in the middle of the day to handle personal business. Why would I offer my children less commitment than I would expect of a public school teacher?

 

2. It is important to my son, especially, that we have a schedule and that it be pretty much engraved in stone. He is an ADD kid, and he needs to know exactly what we're doing, how long it's likely to take, and when his breaks are scheduled. This was especially important when he was your DD's age. He had a written schedule with breaks in red, and we didn't deviate from that schedule unless someone was in need of urgent medical attention ;). The schedule changed (slightly) from year to year as we added more subjects, but it didn't change from day to day or from week to week. Now that they're older, they get a written list of assignments every day and are able to work on a number of them independently, in whatever order they want, but we still have a predictable, set pattern to our days.

 

3. My children learned early and well that there were consequences for refusing to do schoolwork. When my son was six, he refused to start school one morning when I asked him to because he was busy playing a new computer game. We got in the car right then and took the game to Goodwill. He's almost eleven now, and we've literally never had that problem again. If the schoolwork isn't completed with a willing, cooperative spirit, or isn't completed to my satisfaction, then there is no playtime, no tv, no Wii, no anything until it has been.

 

4. People who don't get a good education need to learn to support themselves somehow. You don't want to do schoolwork? Well, there are leaves to be raked, baseboards to be washed, weeds to be pulled, etc. My children have learned that a day of manual labor makes schoolwork seem much more appealing. Your DD might be a bit young for this approach, but it's one to keep in mind for the future :).

 

Again, you might not see yourself or your DD anywhere here. It's just some of what has smoothed our path over the last six years. Best of luck to you :).

 

SBP

 

 

ETA: I'm afraid I came across as a bit of an ogre here, and that wasn't my intention. I've never used Abeka, so I have no idea if it's too hard/structured for your DD, but I do agree with the other posters who suggested keeping lessons light and fun for a five year old. My kids at that age never had lessons longer than 15 or so minutes, and we made sure to do lots of moving around in between. BUT when I said it was time to do schoolwork, I meant it, and they knew that from a very young age. I think establishing that authority and developing good school habits when the dc are young is far, far more important than what they actually learn in kindergarten. :).

Edited December 4, 2008 by SBP

[dhudson]

I agree with the other ladies - Abeka is a little much for the 5 year old. I started our oldest with Abeka and my dh suggested we move to MFWK which was much better for the age and stage.

 

If it were me, I would work on obedience first then school. School will never be productive (ps or not) if your child refuses to follow directions and to obey. Perhaps you could spend the holidays working on following directions, having a willing and helpful spirit and obeying?

 

Just a thought.

[LisaKinVA]

We are using Abeka for my 5yo... however, my penmanship goal is not neatness, it is simply holding the pencil correctly. Neatness will come over time, and really don't stress or fret over it right now.

 

Work on her fine motor skills with play doh, and other crafts. Use a white board (Crayola makes one with lots of tracing templates), my children love playing with these... and don't forget coloring!

 

My 5yo boy is a very active little boy, so we spend more time bouncing than sitting!

 

Much of what Abeka has in their lesson plan is really unnecessary... don't be afraid to skip parts of it -- or even do things orally.

 

But, even Abeka can be finished quickly (your 5 yo should spend more time playing, than "doing school") And, don't be afraid to take a day off here and there too!

[nmoira]

You have already received some great advice, so I'm just going to address this one issue.

 

She gives the answers wrong at times just because she is not trying (like telling me what time it is at 3:30 she said 20 60 or something like that.)

 

I don't know if this is the case, but young children (and even older ones and adults) will sometimes give a silly wrong answer rather than risk giving an honest wrong answer, especially if they feel pressured.

[elegantlion]

My ds used Abeka K in a private school. They did not get through everything and they ended up sending some of it home for us to do with them. So don't feel the pressure to do it all, not even the private schools will get it ALL done.

[G5052]

Frankly he couldn't focus at that age on much at all other than coloring and playing outside. Being quiet for a read-aloud was pure torture for him. At times we clashed so much that DH had to come home from work at lunch to help me with him. I took comfort in knowing that he was the same way with anyone -- he had a hard time in Sunday School and Awana as well, so putting him in a classroom would not have helped at all IMHO.

 

Doing light academics in 15-minute spurts worked pretty well, as did doing the harder subjects first thing in the morning before his younger sister got up. I did the read-alouds during breakfast and lunch, and he played outside for several hours a day. I really worked on our relationship too, trying to truly encourage and love him.

 

And...we're still homeschooling six years later. He's very focused now and is extremely neat and precise with his work. They do change!

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

Sunny, you may want to ask yourself, "Is what I am doing fostering a love of learning in my little girl?" If not, you may want to change your tactics, because at her tender age, fostering a love of learning may be the very most important thing. Barring any medical/developmental/psychological issues, children will eventually learn to read, write and do sums at some age, but even very bright children can be "taught" to hate any form of school (private, public or home school). Be very careful in your zealousness for perfection, you are not robbing your child of a lifetime of happily pursuing education (said very, very gently).

Edited December 4, 2008 by MeanestMomInMidwest

[Haiku]

Of course her handwriting is horrible ... she's five. Making her do it over and over and over again won't improve her handwriting. Only time will do that (and continued, appropriate practice). Perhaps you need to take a page out of Charlotte Mason and have her do LESS handwriting of HIGHER quality. Instead of an entire page (for example), have her write one word well. That can be it for the day. Trying to pound skills into kids by making them repeat them over and over and over again until it's "right" will kill any motivation that had existed.

 

If you don't want to send her to ps, perhaps you need to take a look at your expectations for your daughter and ask yourself whether they are reasonable. Five is very young.

 

Tara

[mom31257]

Hi Sunny -

 

I see from your sig that your DD is 5. Some five year olds are ready for writing and some just aren't. Fine motor skills are still developing at that age, and the fact that her handwriting is horrible doesn't necessarily mean she isn't trying or isn't being cooperative. It might just be that she's not ready for that much writing.

 

As for not minding, I do think this is something that needs to be addressed - firmly - if you plan to continue homeschooling. I don't know your situation, so some of my advice might be way off base. Please know that I'm not judging you - just passing along some things I've learned over the years and have found helpful in organizing my own homeschool.

 

1. I realized many years ago that I could not expect my children to be disciplined about their school work if I was undisciplined. Homeschooling is my job. Period. I have to approach it with the same work ethic that I would approach a paying job that I got up and went to every single day. That means that I do not start late, I do not blow it off on days that I don't feel like doing it, I do not allow my work environment (my home) to be a cluttered mess, I do not come to the "office" (my dining room table) unprepared and disorganized. I also don't answer the phone in the middle of lessons, don't volunteer for projects or run errands that will disrupt our school day - don't do anything, basically, that will send my children the message that there is something more important than their school work. If I did send my children to school, I would be outraged if the teacher took personal phone calls in the middle of their lessons or dashed out in the middle of the day to handle personal business. Why would I offer my children less commitment than I would expect of a public school teacher?

 

2. It is important to my son, especially, that we have a schedule and that it be pretty much engraved in stone. He is an ADD kid, and he needs to know exactly what we're doing, how long it's likely to take, and when his breaks are scheduled. This was especially important when he was your DD's age. He had a written schedule with breaks in red, and we didn't deviate from that schedule unless someone was in need of urgent medical attention ;). The schedule changed (slightly) from year to year as we added more subjects, but it didn't change from day to day or from week to week. Now that they're older, they get a written list of assignments every day and are able to work on a number of them independently, in whatever order they want, but we still have a predictable, set pattern to our days.

 

3. My children learned early and well that there were consequences for refusing to do schoolwork. When my son was six, he refused to start school one morning when I asked him to because he was busy playing a new computer game. We got in the car right then and took the game to Goodwill. He's almost eleven now, and we've literally never had that problem again. If the schoolwork isn't completed with a willing, cooperative spirit, or isn't completed to my satisfaction, then there is no playtime, no tv, no Wii, no anything until it has been.

 

4. People who don't get a good education need to learn to support themselves somehow. You don't want to do schoolwork? Well, there are leaves to be raked, baseboards to be washed, weeds to be pulled, etc. My children have learned that a day of manual labor makes schoolwork seem much more appealing. Your DD might be a bit young for this approach, but it's one to keep in mind for the future :).

 

Again, you might not see yourself or your DD anywhere here. It's just some of what has smoothed our path over the last six years. Best of luck to you :).

 

SBP

 

 

ETA: I'm afraid I came across as a bit of an ogre here, and that wasn't my intention. I've never used Abeka, so I have no idea if it's too hard/structured for your DD, but I do agree with the other posters who suggested keeping lessons light and fun for a five year old. My kids at that age never had lessons longer than 15 or so minutes, and we made sure to do lots of moving around in between. BUT when I said it was time to do schoolwork, I meant it, and they knew that from a very young age. I think establishing that authority and developing good school habits when the dc are young is far, far more important than what they actually learn in kindergarten. :).

 

Can you be my mentor? I am getting more and more undisciplined the older I get. I really want to get a handle on it. My kids will do their schoolwork, and they know I expect it done. They do mind me and are good, but not perfect. I just want myself to be this disciplined.

 

As far as the A Beka, I do think aspects of it are too structured. I had problems this year with my 5 year old not wanting to do school especially handwriting. I started a chart with smiley faces for good attitudes with his schoolwork. If he got all smiley faces for the day he got to do a video game. It really helped. I don't even have to do the chart anymore.

 

I try to make it fun, but I also expect regular school work, too.

[Ria]

I agree with everyone else. Why not try Sonlight? She'll be begging to do school. Have fun!

 

Ria

[FO4UR]

I have a 5yo ds as well. This child did not even draw stick people a year ago, and is writing in cursive today. Granted it's not what I call "neat," BUT he forms the letters correctly. With short spurts of daily practice, I know he will do fine. He does no more than 10min of writing at a time. I did use Abeka K5 cursive penmanship book with him. We did a page per day until we got to the whole words, and then I switched things up b/c I am using a different language arts program. For penmanship practice now, he does 5 single letters 3x to the best of his ability. At another time during the day we practice writing words. I'm a stickler for correct formation, not perfect placement/porportion -at this point.

 

His math page from y-day was a mess. Half of his numbers all looked like mutilated 3's :001_huh::lol: I asked him what he wrote and he had the correct answer to each one, even though his penmanship was horrid. We will work on writing numbers separate from his independant math practice.

 

I think a lot of frustration at this age can come from wanting the child to display their newly learned knowledge when the child needs to let it marinate a while longer in their little heads before they are ready to perform. That, and a clash of wills never helps. Try not to make school THE main time for forming discipline. In fact, if I have had a trying time with my ds5 I wait until all is well before doing school.

[Garga]

My son was the same way last year, at age 5. After a year rather like yours I finally learned: slow down!

 

She's not ready. Now that my ds is 6, it's a joy to teach him. Sounds like she needs to mature just a tiny bit.

 

I would follow everyone else's advice about making it more about fun than work. Actually, I AM following everyone else's advice! I have a 3 year old and I'm going to make it easy and fun for him until he's 6, and then we'll ease into more structured "school."

Edited December 4, 2008 by Garga_

[jacqui in mo]

I would suspect that if you DID send her to school, the same issues would be happening there, and you'd be getting notes or calls from the teacher saying she won't do her handwriting, she won't sit still, blah, blah, blah. It's good that you're HSing so that you can change gears using the other good advice you've gotten. She'll be getting much more individualized attention and what she needs much better than in a classroom for now.

[Lori in MS]

I would suspect that if you DID send her to school, the same issues would be happening there, and you'd be getting notes or calls from the teacher saying she won't do her handwriting, she won't sit still, blah, blah, blah. It's good that you're HSing so that you can change gears using the other good advice you've gotten. She'll be getting much more individualized attention and what she needs much better than in a classroom for now.

 

I agree with this. Sending her to public school is not necessarily going to solve the problem. It may even add more problems that you wouldn't encounter in homeschooling.

[JenniferB]

I didn't read all the posts, so I'm not sure if someone mentioned this or not, but I think you and your husband should have a heart to heart about family goals and raising your children. Keep in mind, that your daughter won't learn to mind you in public school. There will be very little opportunity to mind you there. Her loyalities will also be pulled away from you and placed on school children and the teacher. This could widen the divide between you. Of course, this may not happen. I know some families that utilize public school, and they have good relationships with their children. You and your husband know your child better than anyone. Talk about all the ways public school could help your family, or hurt. I would like to encourage you not to make the decision based on academics, but based on personal family goals and values. Will public school help you to meet those goals, or will continuing the tough job of homeschooling help you to meet those goals? Raising children is a serious subject, and it's not all about academics. The academics are only a small part of their overall life experiece, especially at age 5.

 

Take care. :grouphug:

[stripe]

I am at my witts end. DD does not want to mind. Her handwriting is horrible and I make her do it over and over and still she won't do it right. ....He is afraid that she isn't learning since she is acting like this. I just want to cry I am so frustrated.

 

I swear I read a thread from a few weeks ago wondering about burn-out, written by someone with a 5 year old doing A Beka -- was that you? ...It is you, I found the thread. What were your thoughts about the advice people gave in that thread?

 

It sounds awful, like no one is happy, and there's just a lot of frustration. I really urge you to radically change things, or else I don't think things can really improve going down this path.

 

I don't think endless handwriting practice is going to make her love writing or love being at home with you, or encourage her to "mind" you. You can accomplish many educational goals without the lifeless drill approach. For practice, you could have her write letters to her grandparents, friends, aunts, stuffed animals, characters in her favorite book, whoever; write the grocery list.... it doesn't have to be perfect, but I don't really see why there's a lot of writing being done -- she's just 5. Making her just sit there writing forever becomes just plain unpleasant, and then I think there will be, if there isn't already, an effect on her enthusiasm for learning. I think if you give her something boring to do, it's not really surprising that she isn't excited about doing it. I don't know what your goals are, but I personally would want my kids to learn with a little more self-motivation, not just because "Mommy said."

 

I would like to think that if you eased up a bit and had more fun, doing things like reading interesting books together instead of phonics drill, and accommodated more of her interests, go outside, play, visit places, and so on, that you will have her more attracted to what it is you want her to do, and you won't have (so many) struggles over "minding" you, because your interests will be more naturally aligned.

 

You might find a book like "When Children Love to Learn" by Elaine Cooper and "For the Children's Sake" by Susan Schaeffer Macaulay to be truly inspiring. (Charlotte Mason, incidentally, did not believe in formal education until the age of six.)

Edited December 4, 2008 by stripe

[...................]

to just cut back on the academics. My dd is five and she is preschool this year b/c she was still 4 in September...but still she is five. You know what she does every day?

 

1 page from Kumon

1 page from Rod and Staff preschool books (more if she wants)

 

that's it!!

 

And oddly enough, I, never have done handwriting with her except the little bit in a previous Kumon letters book and learning to write her name in the Rod and Staff preschool and her handwriting is great. (for her name)

 

As the kids get older practice does make perfect to an extend but at this age less is better and more is worse!!

 

I would take the Abeka and get rid of anything possible that you can cut out, skip over, etc. I would take a break from formal schooling, and just unschool for a while. if your dh is OK with it, I would also switch programs. Even though you could make Abeka work, your dd and you are stuck in a rut and it would do wonders to switch to something else- anything else, but the less busy work the better.

 

My dd would lose it if I tried to make her to real school, and lots of lessons...her age, temperament and personality would not survive it. Even my son who is extremely good focus, motor skills and attention span, he only did about 20 minutes per day of formal lessons!

 

Take the month of December off for baking cookies, make her mind during non-school hours, and see about switching programs and cutting back on busy work. Maybe MFW K would be a good idea. It's gentle.

 

:grouphug:

[siloam]

Esther,

 

I am with all the rest. My oldest didn't start anything till she was 5.75, and she has been the easiest to teach. The rest all started earlier only because they were asking for it. To be perfectly honest I planned on waiting till my ds was 6 to start him, but his speech was so far behind I had to start phonic/speech therapy when he was 5.

 

At age 5 I only do 30-45 mins of school a day 3-4 days a week and I sit with them the WHOLE time to keep them focused. My kids haven't been able to work on their own till about 2nd grade, even then there is a lot I have to work with them on daily. I spend an hour with my oldest one on one and she would be 5th grade in PS.

 

Heather

 

p.s. My oldest dd's test scores were great. (I only test occasionally, so none of the others have been tested yet.)

 

[Rosie_0801]

If you are worried about what your hubby and other relatives say about cutting back, tell them the dot to dots and other artworks are a palatable way of building dd's fine motor skills and muscle strength. That way you sound responsible, not like a slacker :) Remember, people who don't teach aren't generally up on teaching theory and definately not up on the practise of it!

:)

Rosie

[Johanna]

I am on my third round of Kindergarten , and let me try to encourage you that this too shall pass. She is so young....get the pencil out of her hand for a while and try chalk, pudding, sand. salt tray.....lots of multisensory!

 

We have always done MFWK (on the third round) it was my answer to prayer when I started homeschooling because my philosophy is one that Kindergarten should be about "exploring, and being wooed to the love of learning" and this EXACTLY what MFWK does. I wasnt one who thought that a K'er should be in the workbooks unless they want to be:-)....

take a step back, and DEFINITELY go easy on your self, you sound like you are doing a wonderful job... maybe just a fresh perspective is all you need....enjoy this stage! :)

here is the link

http://www.mfwbooks.com

[crazymom4]

I second a suggestion of HOD...we switched to it all this year and we have kids BEGGING to do school each day....it is awesome....not over the top and my kids are ENJOYING their learning.

 

That said...I had a struggle with my oldest when we began and I told a friend I was sending her to school bc I just couldn't handle it anymore....she "gently" reminded me that my relationship with my child is more important than any learning that goes on at this age....that was EYE opening for me....not that I didn't know that...but that I had to be reminded....and she went on to say...that the problems I was having were not going to go away just bc she went away during the day....we had to fix those problems together.....

 

it's just a thought that someone shared with me that really got me onto the right path. I will be forever greatful to her..but please understand I'm SO NOT judging here.....

[Nakia]

Sunny, you may want to ask yourself, "Is what I am doing fostering a love of learning in my little girl?" If not, you may want to change your tactics, because at her tender age, fostering a love of learning may be the very most important thing. Barring any medical/developmental/psychological issues, children will eventually learn to read, write and do sums at some age, but even very bright children can be "taught" to hate any form of school (private, public or home school). Be very careful in your zealousness for perfection, you are not robbing your child of a lifetime of happily pursuing education (said very, very gently).

 

 

I totally agree with MeanestMom here. This is my 2nd round of kindergarten, and it is so fun!! It should not be stressful at all. We do MFW K and we love it. It includes all subjects, and it takes us less than an hour every day. Emma also likes to do the ETC primers, and she does a few pages of her ETC book within that hour also.

 

Actually with my oldest, I was pregnant at the time (and then had a newborn) when she was K age. We did nothing but read books and play that whole year because that's all I could manage. She is 8 now and is a wonderful student. I never did a formal handwriting curriculum with her, and she has beautiful handwriting. One of her Sunday school teachers has even commented on her neat handwriting.

 

I like what Kindergarten used to be when I was in school. We played with blocks, had a dress-up and kitchen center, learned to ride the tricycle and tie our shoes, and enjoyed the teacher reading picture books. That what it should be. Kindergarten is the time when little ones should be learning to love learning. And you should be having fun too! Leave the heartache for teaching chemistry! :D

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[The Governess]

I've found with my dd4 that she gives me silly answers or plays around if she's afraid she won't get it right. Maybe it would help to step back for a while, give your daughter some review work that you know will probably be easy for her. She might be more excited to do something that she knows she'll get right, and she can build up her confidence.

[Tree House Academy]

Wow - she is just 5! My 5 year old has been homeschooling for 2 years now and he still can't really go for more than an hour (or just over) without really getting antsy. He fidgets and we have to switch topics and activities often to keep his attention. And how good can her handwriting be at 5? My son still turns some of his letters backwards, but heck, he is trying. Maybe it is a matter of lightening your expectations on her a bit?

 

If I made my 9 year old do his handwriting (which is not great either, btw) over and over and over and over, he would dissolve into tears. There comes a time when you have to realize they are doing the best they can that day and come back to it another day.

[sixpence1978]

Sunny,

 

I remember that you posted on the Acclerated Learner board about moving ahead in your program. It sounded like you were already quite advanced as it was. You could definitely take a longer break over the winter to try to get a breather.

 

It does sound like she might just be getting a bit burnt out. Try changing things up a little bit...play more games, read more stories, that sort of thing. She's still 5 and you really want to cater to her interests.

 

My DD5 was also doing Abeka K5 phonics and moving ahead at a really great pace, and then it was just "brick wall" time. We took some time off, and now she is interested again. And, at 5, I am not that concerned with penmanship. We are mainly focusing on that she knows how to write the letters and read them...we'll focus on making them look nice later.

 

Also, I'm not sure what questions she is answering wrong, but I actually don't ask too many questions at this age. I will usually phrase it as an incomplete sentence (This word says.....), or just give her a task (Count to 100 for me). I never expect her to remember anything for history or science topics, and we don't really cover comprehension yet either.

 

Anyways, I just wanted to give you a word of encouragement and tell you that it will be okay to back off for a little bit. It's Christmas time, so do some Christmas crafts, read some fun stories together, and play some games. She will still be learning plenty and might get a little recharge to start up again.

[Janice in NJ]

I personally did not find the level of work in A Beka's K program to be too overwhelming. It really didn't take up too much of the day; there was plenty of time left for play.

 

Obviously plenty of folks disagree with me, so that's cool. Hsing is all about finding your groove. :001_smile:

 

However, from the sound of your post, it doesn't sound like you have a homeschooling problem. Is it possible that you have a parenting problem? :001_smile:

 

Teaching children to cheerfully obey is a parenting thing. It won't change if she goes to school; you'll still have to figure out how to do that. Even the school system will constantly push that one back into your court. :001_smile:

 

So maybe take some of the advice from the gals here and tease the two apart for a while to figure out where the disconnect it. Change up the school thing, but keep regular "work" in her day. Have her fold towels and sort socks. Does she make her bed? Will she cheerfully tidy up her room if you ask her to? Does she help to set and clear the table? When you go to the library or to a friend's house does she obey you when you say that it is time to go or does she balk? When you read to her does she sit relatively quietly or is she very disruptive?

 

If I were you, I would try to come up with "non-school" things to do to see how well she minds you and bends her will to yours with OTHER things. Very often I found that I needed to teach my children to obey me first - with a willingness to do what *I* wanted them to do - quickly and with a good quality end product. THEN teaching them became a breeze - they had formed the habit of bending their will to mine. (And I learned how to help them to comprehend my expectations. What a dance! :001_smile:)

 

After they learned to obey me - THEN the only challenge left landed on my shoulders: Now that I was in charge of another person's will, I needed the restraint NOT to abuse that trust. When I gave them more than was reasonable for their ability, *I* was in the wrong! They trusted me; I couldn't abuse that trust but working them like dogs! LOL

 

A fine line - learning to dance around it can be a challenge! Definitely a growing experience for the momma and the child. But worth it! It makes for incredibly strong relationships between parents and children - the deep heart-entwined kind.

 

If your child resists your will in everyday things, you will have an ever-increasing difficulty on your hands. THAT doesn't get better as they get older without a TON of effort. And school won't solve that one.

 

Try teasing parenting and school apart for the while; you might gain some insight into the root of your problem. I know that it worked for me.

 

Just a thought.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[SunshineMom]

Hi Sunny,

Maybe it is time to do some "unschooling." Writing is something a child needs to feel motivated to do. How about helping your little one write a Christmas list. Have her tell you want she would like on her list and then help her sound out the letters and trace them. Before going to the library have her help write out a list of books she would like. Try having her trace the words rather than all on her own until she wants to do it herself. Let her find activities to do with you. For instance, if she likes cats, then get some books on cats and read them, draw cats, write the word cat, etc have her make a book all about cats. Stay away from formal workbooks for a month or so and then very slowly add them in once or twice a week. Build up math, reading, writing with games. Play letters or word bingo (make your own) with letters/words she already knows and then introduce new stuff slowly. Count all of this as school. Talk about the weather, make a rain gauge (use measurements for math), take a walk notice the changes in plants/trees. Read a ton of fiction/nonfiction books. You might ask her why she would want to go to PS. Then do those activities at home. Include playdates, swimming, walking, library, reading, visits to zoos/museums, educational movies all as "school time."

She is so young there is no need to feel pressured. I once read that if a child did not attend school and had no instruction up until they were 15yrs, that child could master what they had missed in about 100 days! So relax, breathe, try to have fun but also get some breaks yourself. Parenting is not easy especially when you are with little ones 24/7. Best wishes!

[Crimson Wife]

I ran into huge issues with my K5 student last year regarding writing. I ended up giving up on it about 6 weeks into the school year and simply allowed her to dictate the answers orally while I transcribed.

 

In the spring, I had her repeat some of the copywork exercises from the previous fall and there was tremendous improvement despite having done very little writing in the interim. That to me suggests the issue was physical motor skills.

 

Good luck!

[Guest]

5 is too young to demand perfection in handwriting or anything else. Having her recopy at that young age when her motor skills are still developing is just going to cause tears. Accept her best efforts. She is SO young. If ABeka handwriting is causing her fits, try Handwriting without Tears. I am a big believer in no formal Kinder before age 6, depending on the child. She isn't going to get behind...she just started.

 

I understand ABeka is very challenging and I feel pushes too much too young. Get your Well-Trained Mind book out and re read the prek/k chapters. Slow and Steady. May I kindly suggest you reevaluate your expectations?

 

I agree with the poster who said to have a heart to heart with your dear husband about this. Pray for guidance. There is no shame or failure in dropping a curriculum for any reason. We all have done it more than once. :) Or in taking a break.

 

5 is so young, after all. Kumon books, Explode the Code Primers, starfall.com, Before 5 in a Row, Core Knowledge What Your K Needs to Know, good books to read aloud...might be a better fit right now. Ask her what she wants to learn this year. My gifted child made me a list and that has been very helpful.

 

Behavior wise, have you tried a reward system? PEGS is a good choice (www.familytools.com). My boys LOVE My Reward Board. www.myrewardboard.com. Love and Logic works well. www.loveandlogic.com My sister who is a social worker shared this one with me: Child Parent Relationship Training by Sue Bratton, Garry Landreth, Theresa Kellam, and Sandra Blackard. Published by the Routledge, Taylor, and Francis Group. The OREO cookie DVD is very good. I am sorry I don't have a web address for that one. But Amazon has the book and training book. Lectures at age 5 will just blow through her.

 

HTH and you are not alone. HS is a wonderful experience once you find the right fit for you AND for her.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Guest

[Mommy22alyns]

Sunny, someone mentioned you posting on the Accelerated board, so I looked at your past posts - I hope you don't mind. I think you had good words of wisdom for someone else, and I'd like to kindly suggest that you take advantage of that too:

 

I would just leave him. He will read when he is ready. Pushing it will prob make him not do it because he is being stubborn. lol

 

 

:001_smile: Sometimes it's easier for us to see something when we're not so close to it. I give you these with a smile too: :chillpill::chillpill::chillpill:

[~Sunny~]

Thanks for all your replies. I do think I am being hard and wanting perfection. She has fly through school and did so great and is almost done with K. I had planned to move right on into 1st but have decided to slow school way down and have fun with it! This week I have my nephew that is going through a rough time at home and is the same age as my DS so they argue all the time and last week we had off. I think that is why this week has been so hard. To much going on and no school last week.

 

I know I have talked about being burnt out before but sometimes it just helps to vent again. lol

[ElizabethB]

I like sum swamp for math, here's a link to a fun phonics game:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/concentrationgam.html

 

I also like to play games with magnetic letters on cookie sheets or magnetic white boards.

 

Give them 6-8 consonants they have learned so far and a vowel and have them see how many words they can make! Once they get good at this, see how many words they can make in 1 minute.

 

Read, Write, Type is so fun, my daughter "played" it for 8 months before she realized it was educational. She asked permission to play it like she would ask permission to watch a movie or play a regular computer game!

 

It's a bit expensive, but you can try a free demo first:

 

http://www.talkingfingers.com/

 

We also had a lot of fun working through Webster's Speller in K. We laughed hysterically at the funnier sounding syllables. I never worked more than 10 minutes a day with her, but she ended up the year being able to read out of the KJV of the Bible. I used a white board to write out the words and syllables, that held her attention much better than working out of a phonics book. She also got to choose which color pen we would use each day.

 

Math is a bit more painful and also more slow going, although she does like sum swamp. I just ordered the Right Start math games Kit, hopefully those will help, too.

[cillakat]

it for 8 months before she realized it was educational. She asked permission to play it like she would ask permission to watch a movie or play a regular computer game!

 

It's a bit expensive, but you can try a free demo first:

 

http://www.talkingfingers.com/

 

 

and when you do the free demo, you are emailed a coupon for $25 off your purchase.

 

:)

K

[StephanieZ]

I am at my witts end. DD does not want to mind. Her handwriting is horrible and I make her do it over and over and still she won't do it right. She plays instead of doing school. She gives the answers wrong at times just because she is not trying (like telling me what time it is at 3:30 she said 20 60 or something like that.) She refuses to mind me. Half the time she is great other times she is horrible. I have no idea what to do. DH keeps talking to her and nothing is working. Dh said today she needs to go to PS. He has been saying this for awhile. He is afraid that she isn't learning since she is acting like this. I just want to cry I am so frustrated.

 

Hold on. . . . Your oldest is 5!!!!!!!! How much time are you expecting her to school each day? That isn't even K age!! She SHOULD be playing all day! That's what 5 year olds are supposed to do!

 

First off, you will need to be able to get your child to mind you in order to parent effectively, no matter where she schools. So, sending her to school won't get you off that hook!

 

I would guess that you are trying to do too much. Concentrate on enjoying your little children, reading stories, doing art, going on fun outings, making forts, cooking together. . . If you spend most of your time together doing these things, then you'll build a good rapport and your children will mind you better.

 

I would strongly advise you to rethink your daily schedule. I'd schedule at most two THIRTY MINUTE blocks (or 3 20 min) of school time each day and schedule the rest as total play time. Make these scheduled blocks predictable, written on a wall somewhere, and YOU obey the schedule. This is important, trust me. Also, make sure something really fun follows each block. . . say school from 10-10:30 and then bake cookies with mom 10:30 - 11. . . you get the idea.

 

During the schooling time, you can get the basics done no problem. 30 min of learning to read and a bit of writing and 30 min for everything else. Ideally, plan these 30 min blocks for times when your toddler is napping or still in bed in the morning, or whatever, so you can more easily concentrate on your 5 yo. If needed, put on a video (out of your ear/eye shot!) for the 3 yo while you school the 5yo.

 

For instance, in a day for a 5 yo, I might;

 

+ spend 20-30 min learning to read with a good phonics based reading program

 

+ spend 2-4 min a day on a bit of handwriting -- as in writing perhaps 4-10 words at most. Make this assignment very short and sit by her watching and helping. Use a white board, or make letters with a stylus and a sand table or something else fun. . .

 

DO NOT make her do things over and over! Yikes!! Rethink this or maybe sending her to school wouldn't be a bad idea if you can't be gentler! This sounds very combative!!

 

+ spend 10-15 min doing a fun math program. Should be engaging and interative -- NOT just handing her a worksheet.

 

Those three things are all the official schooling I think is needed and could easily be done in under 60 min a day. If you do that, the child will learn to read, form her letters, count and add, etc. . . and will be more than ready for K or 1st grade work by the time those ages.

 

During the rest of the day, I'd make sure she gets to listen to beautiful story books at least 30 min a day (ideally a couple hours a day). That is vital.

 

The rest of the time, I'd make sure to be doing creative, fun, healthy play (not much TV or computers) and I think you'll be fine!!

 

FWIW, PS or any school isn't the end of the world!! The most important thing is that you have peace and love in your family. If schooling stays so combative and you can't change it, then I vote with dh for sending her to school! If you do decide to do that, I'd take the rest of this year and just enjoy your child and not "school" at all! (In fact, that may be just the ticket in any case since she is so young. . . perhaps you should just take a school holiday for a month or two over the winter and then reconsider your approach??)

[stripe]

I know I have talked about being burnt out before but sometimes it just helps to vent again. lol

The main reasons your two very similar threads have struck me are:

* Your daughter is 5

* The last thread was written in November and this in early December

 

Also the fact that you had two similar threads in a couple week period; I was wondering what you took from the advice previously offered; what changes you made, what you thought about, and so on.....

 

I am not sure when you began your school year, but it seemed that you became burnt out somewhat quickly, which suggests that whatever you're doing is not the right path to be on. I hope you find the right one.

[nmoira]

I posted a response to the OP's thread on the accelerated board.

[stripe]

I came back to this thread because I was thinking about this more....

 

I think it's easy to get caught up in an educational program (or for others, watching tv, or whatever) because it can be hard for some of us to fill so many hours! of the day when kids can sometimes need so many different activities, and it can be overwhelming. But I would encourage you to try some activities that are not so overtly academic (gardening, cooking, cleaning, self-care, sorting, playing in the sandbox), and also remember that the sorts of skills they are supposed to learn in kindergarten can seem so basic to us that they don't even seem worth dwelling on, but actually are quite complicated and DO take time to figure out! I suggest you seek out fun activities for young kids, as a way to better acquaint yourself with the needs of young children. It can be easy to do academics, but is that the best thing for them?

 

Recently I was reading the goals of the Singaporean education ministry for the education of 3-6 year olds, and they are at the child will:

 

 

• Know what is right and what is wrong
  
• Be willing to share and take turns with others
  
• Be able to relate to others
  
• Be curious and be able to explore
  
• Be able to listen and speak with understanding
  
• Be comfortable and happy with themselves
  
• Have developed physical co-ordination and healthy habits
  
• Love their family, friends, teachers and kindergarten
  

 

[Karen in CO]

I came back to this thread because I was thinking about this more....

 

I think it's easy to get caught up in an educational program (or for others, watching tv, or whatever) because it can be hard for some of us to fill so many hours! of the day when kids can sometimes need so many different activities, and it can be overwhelming. But I would encourage you to try some activities that are not so overtly academic (gardening, cooking, cleaning, self-care, sorting, playing in the sandbox), and also remember that the sorts of skills they are supposed to learn in kindergarten can seem so basic to us that they don't even seem worth dwelling on, but actually are quite complicated and DO take time to figure out! I suggest you seek out fun activities for young kids, as a way to better acquaint yourself with the needs of young children. It can be easy to do academics, but is that the best thing for them?

 

Recently I was reading the goals of the Singaporean education ministry for the education of 3-6 year olds, and they are at the child will:

 

 

• Know what is right and what is wrong

• Be willing to share and take turns with others

• Be able to relate to others

• Be curious and be able to explore

• Be able to listen and speak with understanding

• Be comfortable and happy with themselves

• Have developed physical co-ordination and healthy habits

• Love their family, friends, teachers and kindergarten

 

 

 

That is one of the best lists of goals for children that age that I have every seen. Thanks. It is nice to help keep things in perspective.

[kalanamak]

I just want to cry I am so frustrated.

 

At this age, I was doing one page of EB math 4 days a week, a little counting of beads, art art art (Kumon), lots of outdoor play and mucking about in creeks, exposure to animals (zoos, pets, wildlife), learning the sounds of the alphabet (I taught /b/ not "Beee" for b) as the opportunity came up, talk talk talking, and lots and lots of read alouds. I'd read for 2 hours a night, easily. I spent the winter before he turned 5 hoarse for about 4 months.

 

And laughter. When I told him a plant was an "aloe vera" and he touched the little points on the arms and said "no, owie vera" we laughed until we lay on the floor.

 

You be the student now. Learn the names of the parts of the body and bring them up in conversation during a tickle ("I can see your uvula when you laugh like that!). Fiddle around with a globe, after you have made yourself familiar with the various seas and big rivers. Look at books on travel and then point them out on the globe. Put the pressure on YOU, not her, and then be her adaptable, seize-the-moment tutor. It will take you frustration away.

 

And now, halfway through 6, he is so easy to teach math to, he is progressing steadily and at age with reading, he's a science whiz, and he can find Crete on a map and tell you about bull jumping. So, he's living proof an early push on all this is NOT needed. I promise.

Edited December 9, 2008 by kalanamak

[FloridaLisa]

The first thing that struck me about your post is that you do not have a curriculum problem or attention span problem or scheduling problem. What you are describing looks like a child-training problem.

 

I would deeply encourage you to put aside all academics and focus on training both of your children. Homeschooling requires the parent to work with his child 24/7. For your sanity and for the sake of an orderly, peaceful home, it is vital that you lay the foundation now of your parent-child relationship.

 

Your children should know to obey Mom and Dad: 1) cheerfully; 2) fully; and 3) quickly. How do you do this?

 

Mom: dd, in 2 minutes it will be time to put up blocks and get ready for ballet.

 

2 minutes later:

Mom: okay, dd, it's time to put up blocks so we can head out for ballet. Please put up your blocks and come see me. (watch and wait for immediate response)

 

dd: stalls; continues playing.

 

Mom: (go to dd, gently take chin in hand so she can look at your face) dd, when Mom asks you to do something, you need to do it right away. I'm not going to ask over and over. Let's practice. (standing up and going back to previous position): okay, dd, it's time to put up blocks so we can head out for ballet. (watch and wait for her to immediately respond).

 

dd: but I just want to finish this.

 

Mom: dd, when Mom asks you to do something you need to cheerfully say "Okay Mom!" You say that.

 

dd: Okay mom! (kids are such mimics!)

 

Mom: great job! (watching as she puts away blocks). (BIG HUG). I love you. Alright, let's go to ballet.

 

**********

You do this over and over throughout the day as your child/ren learn to respond to your verbal requests cheerfully and fully and promptly. Practice, give them the words you want them to use, give *immediate* consequences when there is no obedience. Give lots of praise and hugs so that their love tank is full, full, full.

 

If you are consistent, and gentle and firm, you will notice a HUGE change in less than a week. If you continue to be consistent, it will change your relationship. You will be able to concentrate on deeper issues, rather than always the constant surface struggles of whether your dd will mind you.

 

ONLY AFTER your dd has learned to obey you promptly and cheerfully, should you introduce academics. I really cannot imagine a successful homeschool experience where there is not first the foundation of a peaceful, orderly home in which the children respect, listen to and obey the parents. In the early elementary years, balance seat work (writing, workbooks, math work) with lots of time on the couch reading together, looking at maps, doing art projects.

 

I really pray that this helps you. If this is completely unfamiliar to you, I would recommend Shepherding Your Child's Heart. Alternatively, or additionally, seek out an older mom in your area whose kids you admire; who has been successfully homeschooling for a few years.

 

Lisa