A serious conspiracy theory question

[MercyA]

5 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

Censoring myself because I do not want to be banned.  😷

Aww, I missed Dreamergal making a potentially ban-worthy comment. 

This is a grave disappointment, because I'm sure it was awesome.

Carry on.

Edited August 15, 2020 by MercyA

[Frances]

4 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

Some people I know think the media and some politicians are overplaying things in order to make a certain political party look bad. CA's ridiculous numbers blunder recently hasn't helped with that at all. 

I absolutely believe that the media covers it differently based upon who's in charge, though. Just compare how much Texas and Florida were dragged through the mud with the recent spike while CA's spike was largely ignored. The differences in treatment definitely adds fuel to the conspiracy theory fire.

The thing I don’t understand about this is that the “media” is not one big homogenous group. We have everything from far, far right to far, far left and lots in between. Do they really mean certain, but unnamed media sources, or literally all of them?

I often feel like I’m missing something in these references to the “ media”, but maybe it’s because I don’t watch or listen to any news, and only read a few main sources that are generally reviewed as centrist with the exception of one that I know is more left leaning and another where the editorial page, but generally not the news, is right leaning.

[Moonhawk]

3 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

That part I'm not sure of. For some reason in this tv special the idea that the implant would be put in your hand, so that it was easy to scan, was why it was part of the mark of the beast, and since it would leave a scar that was part of the mark. This was back in the 90's that I saw this but it stuck with me, along with the whole show, because it included parts (or it was part of a series) of prophecies from Edgar Casey and Nostradamus and how we were entering the end times. 

edit: also, my dad taped these shows and I re-watched them at times, another reason they stuck...  It's only been the past 5 years or so I've realized how conspiracy-minded my household was growing up.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0307355/  here's at least one of the shows that I'm referencing. For some reason my brain is telling me there were 3 shows that were aired around the same time with similar content, and one of them spoke about the Anti-Christ being a future president of the United States and the Mark of the Devil was the implant in your hand.

But this was apparently 26 years ago so I could be wrong on the 3-shows part.

Also, this should be a lesson on how impressionable young minds are. I was a young 8 when I saw this and I still remember it.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Momto6inIN said:

 

 

Disclaimer: I do not subscribe to the conpiracy theories 😁😁😁

But the link between no cash and the mark of the beast is that Revelation talks about people not being able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast.

Ah you beat me to it.  

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Momto6inIN said:

 

 

Disclaimer: I do not subscribe to the conpiracy theories 😁😁😁

But the link between no cash and the mark of the beast is that Revelation talks about people not being able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast.

And here is what gets me.....it is a prophecy.....do people really think they are going to alter a prophecy?

edited to add—-to clarify I don’t think the mark of the beast is a cashless society.  Or a chip in ones hand.  

Edited August 15, 2020 by Scarlett

[mathnerd]

7 hours ago, Pen said:

 

I haven’t heard that.

Maybe that’s the revised date for the Mayan world end prophesy 😜. Not.

 

 

I have seen a joke (I hope that it was a joke!) going around saying that the Mayan who made the prophecy might have been dyslexic and really meant 2021 instead of 2012.

[theelfqueen]

Can we all just go with "Suddenly" ?

[HS Mom in NC]

30 minutes ago, kand said:

I also wonder if all the people who think that all these deaths and hospitalizations are just made up and overblown think that medical professionals working in overloaded hospitals are all just making it up, or what. I’m wondering if those people have read or watched any of the reports from workers on the front lines.  It’s pretty heartbreaking to read what some doctors nurses have had to face day after day during this, with some reaching a breaking point because of it. For those people in places hit hard, this isn’t like anything else they have faced in their careers. I can’t imagine how those people feel when they read people dismissing this as all made up or over embellished.

This irritates me too.  We have a neighbor, daughter's best friend's dad, who is an ER nurse with a specialty in infectious disease, who has been caring for COVID patients for months now in a major hospital in Raleigh. He's with them when they die alone. It's really taking a toll on him emotionally. He and his wife are FB friends with me and she posted asking people to stop posting stuff like that and consider what medical staff are going through right now. It's outrageous that people are suggesting or implying these workers are in on some sort of conspiracy for political or monetary gain.  It's akin to slander.

 A FB friend from a church I used to attend, we'll call her Cordelia, posted that an unnamed friend told Cordelia unnamed friend's loved one died in a hospital and the hospital offered them a few thousand dollars to claim it was COVID when it wasn't.  She didn't have the name of the hospital, unnamed friend doesn't seem to have reported this bribe to anyone in authority, Cordelia just spread it on FB and had friends commenting that they knew it was all an overblown scam. Cordelia doesn't seem to have considered that it's not up to the next of kin to determine the cause of death, so it doesn't pass the smell test on many levels.

[HS Mom in NC]

Not to derail the thread, but anyone else think it's time for a Reformation in American Evangelicalism?  I saw someone mention it in the comment section recently on Christianity Today's FB page. I specify evangelicalism because that's where I live. I can't comment on other branches of Christianity because I have no first hand experience with them.

Edited August 15, 2020 by Homeschool Mom in AZ

[Frances]

7 hours ago, StaceyinLA said:

 

I don’t know if this is relevant (certainly not to this particular discussion, but maybe to your post), but I chat with someone from the UK on my Mac forum. He shared that the UK lowered their numbers by over 5000 in the last couple days because of inappropriately counted Covid deaths.

I do believe our numbers are inflated. The CDC’s deaths per day for 2020 is actually LESS than deaths per day in 2017 for the same span of time (I think 2020 is a little over 7100/day, whereas 2017 was 7400). If that’s the case, we either aren’t having some huge overabundance of Covid deaths, or Covid deaths are replacing all others. (I may not be perfectly accurate on those numbers but I’m close - she shared directly from the CDC site).

The one good thing about people posting false, easily disproven beliefs or information on this board is that they will quickly be called on it, rather than having everyone agree with them or go even further into conspiracy land. Thank goodness there are still places in this world where critical thinking skills are valued and used.

[Pawz4me]

12 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

Some people I know think the media and some politicians are overplaying things in order to make a certain political party look bad. CA's ridiculous numbers blunder recently hasn't helped with that at all. 

I absolutely believe that the media covers it differently based upon who's in charge, though. Just compare how much Texas and Florida were dragged through the mud with the recent spike while CA's spike was largely ignored. The differences in treatment definitely adds fuel to the conspiracy theory fire.

 

7 hours ago, Frances said:

The thing I don’t understand about this is that the “media” is not one big homogenous group. We have everything from far, far right to far, far left and lots in between. Do they really mean certain, but unnamed media sources, or literally all of them?

I often feel like I’m missing something in these references to the “ media”, but maybe it’s because I don’t watch or listen to any news, and only read a few main sources that are generally reviewed as centrist with the exception of one that I know is more left leaning and another where the editorial page, but generally not the news, is right leaning.

I agree with @Frances. I was going to respond to @kdsuomi's post last night, but was too tired. My firm belief is that many people conflate the media they choose to consume, or the bubble they've worked themselves into, with the broader "media." And time after time I scratch my head, wondering which media it is they choose. Or perhaps it's a matter of perception--people perceive what they want to? I don't know. Anyway, as usual I'm up early and I turned on CNN. And the first story at 5:30 was about Covid in California, and I particularly noticed it due to this thread, even though it's not unusual at all. The media I consume has been covering California quite a lot.

 

4 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Not to derail the thread, but anyone else think it's time for a Reformation in American Evangelicalism?  I saw someone mention it in the comment section recently on Christianity Today's FB page. I specify evangelicalism because that's where I live. I can't comment on other branches of Christianity because I have no first hand experience with them.

 

3 hours ago, kand said:

Yep. I think it's in the early stages. There's a large minority of Evangelicals horrified by where so much of the church has headed. I expect that large minority to grow and eventually become the majority, as the politics over faith and hypocrisy of the larger subset right now is not going to draw new believers at all. There's no Jesus there, and certainly no appeal.

It's several decades past time, IMO. The evangelical church went off the rails at least twenty years ago, IMO. That's when we left. I have a very hard time now when I have to enter an evangelical church. Just walking into one makes me feel dirty and like I"m associating with evil. I've been horrified for a very long time. I hope @kand is right, but I fear it will be the other way--that there will be no place left for true followers of Jesus. So many have already left that what I see around me is that it's just the cultural evangelicals and what I think of as the apostate radical haters who are left, and from what I'm seeing and hearing it seems to be the apostate haters who are running the show, firmly clinging to power, and have no intention of giving it up. I hope I'm wrong.

[Melissa in Australia]

10 hours ago, katilac said:

I love me some living language, but I definitely don't think all of the sudden has crossed over into widespread usage. Perhaps we need an equation that somehow balances the number of people using it versus the number of people cringing when they hear it. 

all of a sudden is commonly used here in Australia

 like in All of a sudden there was a crash.

 

 I just asked my Canadian DH, Yep, He uses All of a sudden all the time to  and according to him it is very common in Canada. his example... I was walking on the track and all of a sudden a branch fell.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Melissa in Australia

[TCB]

On the excess death thing, something is now doing the conspiracy theory rounds about that. A covid denier I know posted something about the CDC saying there are 7,000 + deaths per day through July and that is less per day than ? 2017. I tried to look back to see the exact figures but couldn’t see it again.

[Scarlett]

14 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

Except I think most of the doctors weren't from Houston and at least the one from my area hadn't looked up the doctor who is nuts and talks about alien sperm, etc

Yes I believe you are correct.  It has been several weeks or more since I went down that rabbit trail with her.   Nothing I told her made any difference to her.  

[Scarlett]

14 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

With the cashless society, people are concerned that it would give the government far too much information about your whereabouts. There is also concern about how domestic abuse victims will be able to squirrel away money in order to leave their abusers.

I think it was here on the boards someone pointed out the obvious.....people, do you not realize the government has literally assigned a number to each one of us.  

Edited August 15, 2020 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

13 hours ago, katilac said:

I love me some living language, but I definitely don't think all of the sudden has crossed over into widespread usage. Perhaps we need an equation that somehow balances the number of people using it versus the number of people cringing when they hear it. 

I think I first heard it in a silly video of a guy who had been in an accident and described it hilariously.  Google ‘Reality hits you hard bro’. 

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

all of a sudden is commonly used here in Australia

 like in All of a sudden there was a crash.

 

 I just asked my Canadian DH, Yep, He uses All of a sudden all the time to  and according to him it is very common in Canada. his example... I was walking on the track and all of a sudden a branch fell.

 

 

Correct.  But not all of THE sudden.

[kbutton]

5 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

My firm belief is that many people conflate the media they choose to consume, or the bubble they've worked themselves into, with the broader "media." And time after time I scratch my head, wondering which media it is they choose.

I don't have to wonder in my FB feed--people post the links. It's often an article by or reposted from an anonymous "news" reporter/blogger with either crazy talk or nearly nothing on the About page. If there are vague credentials on the About page, they don't check out. 

Some are more well-known but known to be biased sites, but of course, the fact checking sites are biased according to the people posting the poorly researched articles. SMH. 

The fact that Facebook or another social media site has fact-checked an article is considered proof there is a conspiracy. "Read it before it's removed" is the rallying cry. 

[Wheres Toto]

13 hours ago, Frances said:

The thing I don’t understand about this is that the “media” is not one big homogenous group. We have everything from far, far right to far, far left and lots in between. Do they really mean certain, but unnamed media sources, or literally all of them?

I often feel like I’m missing something in these references to the “ media”, but maybe it’s because I don’t watch or listen to any news, and only read a few main sources that are generally reviewed as centrist with the exception of one that I know is more left leaning and another where the editorial page, but generally not the news, is right leaning.

I keep wondering this as well.  Who is the big, unified "MEDIA" that is just trying to hide information or inflate other information?  

One thing going around Facebook right now is a conspiracy that nobody is talking about the derecho that hit the Midwest.    I'm not sure WHY the media would be hiding it, but it's getting asked all over if people heard about it because it's being silenced.   We heard about it here (East Coast).   We still had a thousands of people without power from Isaiah and yet, it was still covered by all our local news. 

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I think it was here on the boards someone pointed out the obvious.....people, do you not realize the government has literally assigned a number to each one of us.  

Yes!   And then there's this: 

[Lady Florida.]

20 hours ago, maize said:

What I don't get is why they think the rest of the world is making a big deal of the virus if the only reason it is a big deal here is because of our Presidential election? Do they think the entire world revolves around election cycles in the United States?!?

They don't think much about the rest of the world. In their eyes the world revolves around the U.S. The U.S. might even be at the center of the universe. 🙄

[Lady Florida.]

1 hour ago, Where's Toto? said:

 

Yes!   And then there's this: 

 

And this

 

[HS Mom in NC]

19 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

And my son-in-law's family faked his paternal Grandmother's COVID death on a ventilator in ICU and are lying about his step-mom's mom being in ICU with COVID symptoms.

She just died. My son-in-law's half brother lost both of his grandmothers within a few weeks of each other to COVID in PHX.

[AmandaVT]

5 hours ago, TCB said:

On the excess death thing, something is now doing the conspiracy theory rounds about that. A covid denier I know posted something about the CDC saying there are 7,000 + deaths per day through July and that is less per day than ? 2017. I tried to look back to see the exact figures but couldn’t see it again.

That was also posted on this thread - so much misinformation going around right now. I just had to snooze two people on FB for posting conspiracy theories and then getting angry when people asked for sources. One was about the government taking your child from you if they went to school sick and threatening to arrest the family if they tried to find their child. And the other was sharing a QAnon related twitter account about the government encouraging? toddlers to be raped and murdered. No proof of either, no reasoning. they both seemed to see something that looked scary and shared it without fact checking. And then about 5 people backed them up asking the people trying to get them to fact check to prove it's never happened. DH and I were just discussing how if FB disappeared that may be for the best for critical thinking skills.

[katilac]

4 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I think I first heard it in a silly video of a guy who had been in an accident and described it hilariously.  Google ‘Reality hits you hard bro’. 

🤣

If you haven't watched the Songify version, it's even funnier 

[Scarlett]

26 minutes ago, katilac said:

🤣

If you haven't watched the Songify version, it's even funnier 

Is it the Spotify?

[Pen]

12 hours ago, mathnerd said:

I have seen a joke (I hope that it was a joke!) going around saying that the Mayan who made the prophecy might have been dyslexic and really meant 2021 instead of 2012.

 

A joke meme!!!

 

 

I wonder if there are real problems with stress depleting brain function so that more and more anxiety producing theories (even if they started as a joke) get believed leading to more stress etc etc 

 

 

[katilac]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Is it the Spotify?

It's this: 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

4 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I think I first heard it in a silly video of a guy who had been in an accident and described it hilariously.  Google ‘Reality hits you hard bro’. 

 

25 minutes ago, katilac said:

🤣

If you haven't watched the Songify version, it's even funnier 

Thanks, I needed the laugh. 

Is there a word for a hybrid between a narrative and a reenactment?  Here are 3 of the best eye witness accounts (including Reality Hits You Hard, Bro guy. ) If more reporters interviewed people like this I would watch the news on tv.  They convey exactly what we would all feel in these situations.

 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

 

Thanks, I needed the laugh. 

Is there a word for a hybrid between a narrative and a reenactment?  Here are 3 of the best eye witness accounts (including Reality Hits You Hard, Bro guy. ) If more reporters interviewed people like this I would watch the news on tv.  They convey exactly what we would all feel in these situations.

 

Not today!  Lol I remember that one too. 

[katilac]

3 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Here are 3 of the best eye witness accounts 

 

That first lady 😂

I was delighted to see that she has been Songified also: 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

3 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

This is so sad. I hope that young man has much sympathy and support IRL. 

My daughter has been encouraging him to get some professional counseling for various reasons related to his family and extended family issues, and he's agreed to do so in the last couple of weeks.  He's across the country from them right now near us and my middle daughter and her husband, so we've been socializing together at home doing D&D (everyone's favorite game) regularly.  We've all been very sympathetic and supportive.  

The hardest part has been his paternal grandmother's husband, I'll call him The Ass.  Granny was high risk for age, obesity, and breathing issues.  The Ass, a rabid Trump supporter, insisted on going to karaoke bars multiple nights a week  for weeks while they were still open because he said this COVID thing was all overblown.  Granny asked him not to because she was high risk.  She self-isolated while he was doing it.  They're raising a granddaughter who is 7 (addict estranged parents.) The Ass got COVID and  brought it home to Granny. The Ass tells the kids and grandkids Granny would've died anyway, there was nothing anyone could've done to prevent it. Granny had just retired at 65 a few months before.  You can imagine the tension at the funeral which had the adult children (minus the addict parent of the 7 year old. Addict parent is the youngest adult sibling and only bio kid of The Ass. The rest of the adult children are The Ass's step-children.) The adult step-daughter who is wealthy and has no children is now suing for custody of the 7 year old child, her niece.

My son-in-law's father (one of the adult step-children of The Ass) is very recently clean and sober. He's in the process of divorcing his addict wife. Son-in-law's half brother is 6. Son-in-law's father is living with a girlfriend who appears to be mostly stable.  You can imagine how much he worries about his little brother.My son-in-law has a lot on his plate right now.

[Xahm]

We were discussing things recently and my father in law made a demonstrably false statement. Sitting right beside a computer, I fact checked him (we'd been fact checking other aspects of the conversation earlier, so that wasn't too rude.) I quickly showed it was false, but he said that my source was no good. I found another, also no good. Finally I asked him what source would be trustworthy, and he told me he doesn't accept any source at all. He just goes with his gut, which is why he likes a certain politician he says does the same. 

All that to say, never discussing anything like that with him again. When there can be no facts, there can be no beneficial discussion. We'll stick to things that can be readily observed locally, like how it garden is doing.

[Moonhawk]

1 hour ago, xahm said:

We were discussing things recently and my father in law made a demonstrably false statement. Sitting right beside a computer, I fact checked him (we'd been fact checking other aspects of the conversation earlier, so that wasn't too rude.) I quickly showed it was false, but he said that my source was no good. I found another, also no good. Finally I asked him what source would be trustworthy, and he told me he doesn't accept any source at all. He just goes with his gut, which is why he likes a certain politician he says does the same. 

All that to say, never discussing anything like that with him again. When there can be no facts, there can be no beneficial discussion. We'll stick to things that can be readily observed locally, like how it garden is doing.

I had much the same conversation with my mom. I asked her if I showed her 5 sources saying the opposite of her preferred source, and could demonstrate it (like with a video or something), would it change her mind? "No, I wouldn't trust those others ones not to lie to me. I know [preferred source] isn't lying. ... I'd rather be wrong."

Literally, she would rather be wrong.

It boggles the mind.

May God forgive us our hubris.

[kbutton]

Well, this showed up in my FB feed today. I really needed it, lol! 

[medawyn]

2 hours ago, kbutton said:

Well, this showed up in my FB feed today. I really needed it, lol! 

Mine, too.  Funny but unfortunately there are too many unicorns out there right now.

[Xahm]

40 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

That is so sad. I mean, people are entitled to their beliefs but to willfully chose to be blind to reason, that leaves living in fear (admitted or not) as the only alternative.

I hope you are skilled at redirecting conversation and that you’ve planted a big enough garden to have lots of alternative conversation. 

My garden is pretty small, but interesting enough things have happened in it. My biggest advantage is having four young children, so it's always plausible to jump up and say, " I'd really better check on the kids."

[Katy]

DH's theory is that this is like an abusive relationship.  People won't believe anything negative about their favorite narcissist until they want to, and talking about it will only make them dig in their heels. They're good people otherwise.  Hopefully the whole ugly thing will be over in January.

[teachermom2834]

The loss of any kind of truth is really troublesome. I have people in my life that simply will not believe anything they don't want to.  I know alot of anti-vaxxers. If, for example, we had a measles outbreak in town, these folks would just say they didn't believe it was really measles, they didn't think those kids were really sick, they didn't know any of the sick kids, they know a nurse who said it wasn't measles. They would simply not believe it. 

These people would not believe they had Covid if they tested positive. They simply would say the test was wrong or that someone was lying. If getting the disease yourself isn't enough then I just don't know where to go with that. We have enough in our community at this point that everyone knows people who have had it. Yet, some just won't believe it. 

[StaceyinLA]

On 8/14/2020 at 6:08 PM, Danae said:

Can you provide a link to this graph? Because everything I’m finding on the CDC website shows significantly more deaths this year than in any of the previous three years.

 

She shared a screen shot, and it did say something about excess deaths with Covid-19, but if you looked at the overall graph, there was a spike around March/April then no more. The numbers were based on average deaths per day. It seems like it would be easy enough to determine the number of deaths so far this year.

I will try and take a screen shot, but I know it’ll be blurry. I’m also gonna share the other graph that was posted here with her. This is someone who has done very extensive research, so I typically trust what she posts to be truthful/verifiable information.

Also, on the UK number, I mentioned it was just what someone shared with me. I have no real knowledge, as I haven’t followed anything from anywhere else.

[Xahm]

Another difficult aspect is that with many of these beliefs, there is a similar belief that can be rationally held, even if many disagree with it. For example, there are many who do believe this is an absolutely awful pandemic but who are seriously concerned about the economy. When they talk about their concerns and look for ways to address the economic issues, if they get lumped in with the conspiracy theorists by their audience, this also destroys reasonable conversation. The same is true for the support of various political figures. I know I have to remind myself that I need to listen to people who disagree with me, though I can walk away if it turns out they are nutty on this particular issue. Similarly, if someone agrees with me but is nutty, I should pay attention that I don't give them more credit than they are due.

[StaceyinLA]

14 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

The loss of any kind of truth is really troublesome. I have people in my life that simply will not believe anything they don't want to.  I know alot of anti-vaxxers. If, for example, we had a measles outbreak in town, these folks would just say they didn't believe it was really measles, they didn't think those kids were really sick, they didn't know any of the sick kids, they know a nurse who said it wasn't measles. They would simply not believe it. 

These people would not believe they had Covid if they tested positive. They simply would say the test was wrong or that someone was lying. If getting the disease yourself isn't enough then I just don't know where to go with that. We have enough in our community at this point that everyone knows people who have had it. Yet, some just won't believe it. 

 

This is not all like anti-vaxxers I know. Most of those I know have no issue believing a virus or disease exists, just that our immune systems are designed to fight off those things and/or provide lifelong antibodies if they were to indeed contract those illnesses.

And I know no one who doesn’t believe Covid exists, just that the reaction to it has been a bit over the top for a virus that kills less than 1% of the people it infects.

[teachermom2834]

Just now, StaceyinLA said:

 

This is not all like anti-vaxxers I know. Most of those I know have no issue believing a virus or disease exists, just that our immune systems are designed to fight off those things and/or provide lifelong antibodies if they were to indeed contract those illnesses.

And I know no one who doesn’t believe Covid exists, just that the reaction to it has been a bit over the top for a virus that kills less than 1% of the people it infects.

Oh I definitely don't think all anti-vaxxers believe that. Not at all. But I know some that do. 

 

[katilac]

2 hours ago, StaceyinLA said:

 

She shared a screen shot 

I have little faith in screen shots. 

[Happy2BaMom]

2 hours ago, StaceyinLA said:

 

She shared a screen shot, and it did say something about excess deaths with Covid-19, but if you looked at the overall graph, there was a spike around March/April then no more. The numbers were based on average deaths per day. It seems like it would be easy enough to determine the number of deaths so far this year.

I will try and take a screen shot, but I know it’ll be blurry. I’m also gonna share the other graph that was posted here with her. This is someone who has done very extensive research, so I typically trust what she posts to be truthful/verifiable information.

Also, on the UK number, I mentioned it was just what someone shared with me. I have no real knowledge, as I haven’t followed anything from anywhere else.

 

Here is the 2020 excess deaths chart from the CDC (as of 8/12/20). You'll need to scroll down a little. The yellow line is the excess death threshold (note: updated my info based on Danae's post below).  Every single week since March(ish) shows excess deaths occurring - the lowest week I could find (click on the red cross) still shows an minimum excess death range of 7%. That's the lowest weekly excessive death percentage. I don't know what graph you're referring to, but the claim that there have not been excessive deaths this year, is wrong. "Extensive research" or no.

Here is the excess deaths chart from the UK. (as of 7/31/2020) Still showing massive excess deaths in the spring. They've been below normal since June, because the UK, like most other developed countries, has long since managed to get this virus under control.  Unlike the US.

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Happy2BaMom

[Happy2BaMom]

4 minutes ago, Danae said:

The yellow line there is not the average, it’s the excess death threshold.  Past on past years we can expect that the number will be +/- a certain percent of the past years average. The yellow is the top of that range, which is why it’s almost always above the top of the blue bars. The average would be lower.

 

You're right. Thanks for that correction. I will update my post.

[katilac]

2 hours ago, StaceyinLA said:

 

I will try and take a screen shot, but I know it’ll be blurry. I’m also gonna share the other graph that was posted here with her. This is someone who has done very extensive research, so I typically trust what she posts to be truthful/verifiable information.

 

I missed that she is someone who does a lot of her own research. Can you just ask her for the link? 

[Happy2BaMom]

2 hours ago, StaceyinLA said:

 

This is not all like anti-vaxxers I know. Most of those I know have no issue believing a virus or disease exists, just that our immune systems are designed to fight off those things and/or provide lifelong antibodies if they were to indeed contract those illnesses.

And I know no one who doesn’t believe Covid exists, just that the reaction to it has been a bit over the top for a virus that kills less than 1% of the people it infects.

 

While I agree that people will have a variety of opinions about what constitutes a good reaction vs an overreaction, I would say it's erroneous to solely focus on the death rate for this virus. For one thing, the death rate has only recently been lowered, as doctors have learned how to better treat the virus. Italy's death rate in February was running ~10% of the infected. NY was also hard hit.

The focus on death rates also completely ignores the massive hospitalizations that have occurred with Covid. (CDC graph showing hospitalization rates per 100K). Many other *thousands* of people struck with this virus are experiencing weeks of unrelenting symptoms, with no end in sight. CDC article:

"In a multistate telephone survey of symptomatic adults who had a positive outpatient test result for SARS-CoV-2 infection, 35% had not returned to their usual state of health when interviewed 2–3 weeks after testing. Among persons aged 18–34 years with no chronic medical conditions, one in five had not returned to their usual state of health."

So, yeah, it kind of rankles that people are so cavalier about a virus that makes so many people so sick for so long, even if the death rate is relatively low. Although, even with that, I'd say that 1% of the US population is ~3.5 million people.

[Frances]

4 hours ago, StaceyinLA said:

 

She shared a screen shot, and it did say something about excess deaths with Covid-19, but if you looked at the overall graph, there was a spike around March/April then no more. The numbers were based on average deaths per day. It seems like it would be easy enough to determine the number of deaths so far this year.

I will try and take a screen shot, but I know it’ll be blurry. I’m also gonna share the other graph that was posted here with her. This is someone who has done very extensive research, so I typically trust what she posts to be truthful/verifiable information.

Also, on the UK number, I mentioned it was just what someone shared with me. I have no real knowledge, as I haven’t followed anything from anywhere else.

So what do you make of all the factual information posted here about excess deaths? Have you taken the time to study and analyze it? Actually gone and looked at the CDC links provided? I hope so since you want us to believe some random person on the internet who has done “extensive research”, but you can’t even produce her graphs so we can look at them.

[Frances]

54 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

Ok just jumping into the fray here to say...

Y’all keep talking about deaths. 
 

What about the long term effects, amputations, stroke injury, possibly permanent cardiovascular and pulmonary damage, other vital organ failure, loss of income/huge medical bills? Death rates are far from the only significant metric for considering the effects of COVID-19.

I think this is my own personal point of frustration because someone under my roof keeps pointing to various charts and saying look how the death rate has decreased. I am running out of cordial “yes, but” replies. 

My husband is a medical professional working in a hospital with COVID-19 patients. The longer this has gone on the more concerned he has become about personally getting it due to the risk of long term complications, as new concerning information keeps appearing. He’s never been personally worried about dying from it, but as someone with an extremely active lifestyle, he is gravely concerned about long term effects.

[maize]

10 minutes ago, Frances said:

My husband is a medical professional working in a hospital with COVID-19 patients. The longer this has gone on the more concerned he has become about personally getting it due to the risk of long term complications, as new concerning information keeps appearing. He’s never been personally worried about dying from it, but as someone with an extremely active lifestyle, he is gravely concerned about long term effects.

This is my primary concern as well, though I also think my husband is at higher risk of dying from the virus. His kidney function is only 30% of normal, it isn't really any specific disease so I have no way to research how others like him have fared; his sister is the only person we know of with similar issues. But kidney failure is one way this virus kills people so I figure he is at risk.

But long term complications--we are all at risk for those and we just know so very little yet about how people with heart or lung or other damage will fare in five or ten years.