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About kand

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    Amateur Bee Keeper

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  1. Have you seen the electroceutical fabric idea? Do you happen to have a pulse oximeter? I found it helpful to take some pulse oximetry measurements while wearing a mask, so that i could see that even when it felt like I wasn't getting as much air as I wanted, I was still staying nicely oxygenated. That makes me not worry now if I ever get that feeling. I do take off my mask once I am back at my car. We have discussed that study at some length. Perhaps it was not this thread? In short, read through it carefully, including the result table. In addition to it being a study of just 4 subjects, and the petri dishes being at an absurd 20cm (less than 8 inches) from the subjects face, the results actually show that the masked subjects produced fewer viral particles in the petri dishes. And the cloth masks reduced the number even more than the surgical masks 🤷‍♀️. Their conclusion had to do only with particles cultured from the fabric of the mask itself, which isn't highly relevant, since hopefully no one is going around touching the outside of other people's masks. So, according to this tiny study, yay for cloth masks!
  2. kand

    Tried to PM you, but I think your box is full. 

  3. Oh, yikes. Before I clicked on the link, I thought hopefully low chance of transmission since they were outside, even though with lots of people. After looking at their itinerary of everywhere they went though, we’ll just have to hope they are not one of the super spreader types. The crummy thing is I doubt anybody who put them self in the middle of that situation is someone who is likely to now quarantine for 14 days to make sure they are not now carrying it also and spreading it.
  4. Fortunately, the correlation anecdotes with what various countries did are the weakest of the evidence and there is plenty more coming in studying the masks specifically that is very encouraging. I agree he/she should have left those out or thrown them out as the anecdotes they are.
  5. On this, if you follow the link, you’ll see it’s actually a 90% drop in cases per capita, not raw numbers of new cases. So, it went from 90 per 1,000,000 to 10 per 1,000,000. It’s true they had many other measures in place and we can’t say which accounted for how much of the drop. I do again continue to get the idea that people do not want there to be evidence showing masks to be effective, though. It’s puzzling to me. If we have something that works as well as some of these studies indicate, hallelujah, right?! Then we could get things back open. Otherwise, so far we’ve got pretty much nothing, and home we stay.
  6. Totally agree. It is hard to imagine especially the little kids wearing masks all day, but that seems better to me that not having the kids go to school at all, based on what I hear from friends struggling with trying to help their kids with school at home. It should be totally doable for colleges and even high schools though. Those are the ages I expect their would be the most issues with compliance, though. And how would dorms work? It wouldn’t be reasonable for people to mask 24/7.
  7. Thanks for this post. There are a lot of interesting links in here, and it’s so encouraging to see the science is all pointing toward us being able to get back to some semblance of normal life as long as (almost) everyone is wearing masks. This conclusion from the link I quoted above is especially surprising and pertinent: “A Vaseline-sealed N95 respirator on the receiver offered less protection when compared with any mask on the source. Respiratory source control can offer more protection to HCW and potentially decrease the spread of aerosolized infections.” This goes hand-in-hand with some studies shared yesterday showing a cloth mask was highly effective in preventing outward transmission of virus particles when worn by the infected individual. Boy, and if we could just get everybody on board with this and everyone using face coverings, that could mean some of us wouldn’t have to be wearing the super heavy duty ones that we’re currently wearing to try to protect ourselves better from all the people who are not masking. I would love to wear a simple two layer ear loop mask sometimes, rather than a three layer plus filter tightly sealed to my face mask.
  8. I would be surprised if they weren’t taking them off sometimes when no customers were around and/or in the break room. I got takeout for the family for the first time since this started last night, and when I pulled up out front, I was a little dismayed to see the woman behind the counter did not have a mask on. She was talking to another, stammer who was inside paying, and who she seemed quite familiar with from the conversation once I got inside. By the time I got in the door though, she had her mask on. I did see the restaurant owner coming and going between the kitchen and front desk with no mask in sight. I like that restaurant and want to support them but I would not have gone there at this point had I known they weren’t following the mask mandate while working. We’ve been very conservative as far as not ordering takeout, and I’m not comfortable with the idea of someone making food for us with no face covering. That’s another example of how masks can help the economy. We are much more likely to go somewhere if we know everyone will be masked.
  9. I went grocery shopping today, and was pleased to see every person in the store had a mask (it is required indoors here now, but I didn’t know if people would all be doing so). What I realized on the way home was that somehow I could recognize each employee despite the mask (I always shop that store, so know the employees by sight). I had wondered how it is that they always seem to recognize me even with my mask, but now I see how, since I realized I recognize them as well. Somehow that made me feel a little better to realize we’re not actually all anonymous with our masks on. I still find talking with my mask on awkward, as if I’m in a somewhat noisy place like a store, I find it’s hard for people to understand me. That’s what bothers me most, But that’s just how it is. We need them right now, so we will have to live with that Until it’s safe not to. I’m sorry to hear about your dad. That’s hard enough any time, but even worse now when people often can’t comfort each other in person 😢.
  10. This was in the big thread yesterday, and I thought had some really interesting studies on outward transmission referenced that I have never seen before: I hope to have a chance later today to try to track down some of the earlier studies referenced. If accurate, it’s super compelling for the my mask protects you strategy. This one there’s another testing which combination of materials works best. I’m seeing many studies backing up this idea that mixing materials seems to provide the best protection:
  11. Thanks for this. There are a number of interesting findings here that I'm surprised not to have heard before now. It was also the first time I'd heard what kind of cloth mask was used in that blasted MacIntyre study people like to cite--they called it "an unusually inefficient mask". On outward transmission:
  12. I feel the loss of communication as well, and that’s perhaps my most disliked part of it. I strongly disagree that it’s “uniquely American to be friendly and interact with strangers”, though. There are a lot of cultures in the world that are far, far friendlier than ours typically is. I might even hazard that the US is on the lower side of the range of typical amounts of communication by people in public. Even within America, it varies widely from location to location how interactive and outgoing people are with others in public. I agree with others that it might provide some benefit, but not as much as a cloth mask. That said, that’s the route the speech therapists at the clinic we go to are going to use when they start doing in clinic appointments soon. The kids need to be able to see the therapist’s mouth. The kids obviously won’t be able to be wearing masks during their appointment, so the therapist will be opening themselves up to some risk this way. Others have addressed a lot of the limitations of the study, but I’m not sure anyone pointed out this was a preliminary study of only four people. So when you talk about 3/4 of the people, you’re literally talking about three of four people. And the petri dishes were less than 8 inches from their mouth when they coughed. Another potential flaw is that they tested the unmasked condition first, and as we now know, the virus particles remain suspended in the air for up to several hours after they are expelled, so having the person cough unmasked first and then doing the other tests could account for some of the particles in both the petri dish and on the outside of the masks. We just don’t know. Even the authors say in the comments that it’s a very limited pilot study and agree with a lot of the critique of all the issues with the study. Sharing this particular study is the kind of thing that has made me ask in the past whether people even want masks to be effective. There are so many studies out there showing that it looks like they could help a lot, but people go looking for the one poorly designed study that might suggest they don’t (but it actually doesn’t suggest that when you look more carefully at it). I agree with your assessment. Viral amounts were lower in the petri dish when the patient was wearing a mask than without, and they were lower when wearing a cotton mask than when wearing a surgical mask. So, the study could just as easily be used to show that cotton masks are better than surgical masks. I wouldn’t say that at all based on the study though, because the study is so limited and has some poor design aspects. It certainly shouldn’t be cited as the evidence for why people shouldn’t be wearing masks though. It clearly supports the opposite.
  13. Well I’m sure they’re out there, I don’t know anyone who wants masks in public to be the permanent new normal. I think mask wearing by all is the biggest single thing the public can do to allow us to more safely start doing more things and opening more things up, but I don’t at all enjoy needing to wear a mask or having everyone around me masked. It is what it is though, and not liking it doesn’t mean it’s not worth it. I don’t feel at all the same about not wanting my toddler to stop being shy around people with masks. Mine doesn’t go out in public right now, but has seen all of us on with our masks and has tried hers on, and we had a long distance outdoor visit with grandparents with everyone masked, and she was not phased in the least. That’s a good thing in my eyes, not bad. Not just because this is likely to be our temporary new normal, but in general I don’t want my kids to feel shy of someone simply due to anything about their looks being different. It’s desirable to me that they not bat an eyelash at someone with a disability, a different style of dress, a facial difference, or whatever. I do keep hearing an undercurrent of “it isn’t American” from people who disagree with mask wearing, which makes it sound like more of a knee jerk visceral reaction to something they perceive as being “other” and specifically with being Asian and not wanting the US to feel like an Asian country. Have you seen the masks with the clear windows? I’ve often thought it would be great if those were widely available to everyone, because It’s so nice to be able to see someone’s smile, even if you don’t need to read lips. I’ve been a weirdo trying to keep more than 6 feet all along. It just feels too close to me. The more precautions others are taking, for sure the more we will be participating in the economy as a family. So far, my grocery shopping decisions have been driven primarily by where people are masking the most. Masks are now required in indoor public places where I am, so that has helped a lot, and I’m more likely to feel like I can go buy something I need when I know everyone there will be masked. I’m finally feeling at a point where takeout seems not too risky, so I think we will use some of our relief check this weekend to finally get a takeout meal to support a local restaurant and tip mightily. We’ve been waiting to be able to do that. Perhaps we will go to the plant nursery as well (not all of us). They are doing curbside pickup and private appointments. I would love, love to be able to take my family for ice cream or something kind of normal and fun like that, but it would definitely require them having an alternate way besides packing everyone into the shop like usual.
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