FYI—HAMILTON! Drops tomorrow on Disney+

[ktgrok]

I will say, the only bummer was realizing again that even these amazingly intelligent men could be such idiots when it came to things like duels. UGH! Such a waste of life!

[Terabith]

I highly recommend the genius.com annotated Hamilton lyrics.  It goes into a lot of information about both history and musical influences.  For instance, when Burr says, "Grandfather was a fire and brimstone preacher," do you know who his grandfather was?  His grandfather was Jonathan Edwards.  Stuff like that.

[Sneezyone]

2 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

re hints of Les Mis:

LMM has said in several interviews that Les Mis is the show that most influenced him as a writer, which so intrigued my kids during our 2=year obsession with Hamilton that upon their beseeching we all trooped out to Mis (which my husband and I had seen, like, 40 years ago or something) to figure out why.  And you can see it.  Not just the small-character development within epic scale overall story/energy/timing/staging/use of the crowd as a sort of Greek chorus that so propels the narrative that you literally don't need any spoken dialogue, just the movement from song-to-song furthers the story along, though all of that... but also the genius use of musical motifs -- each character gets an associated line laid out once in a whole song and thereafter referenced, by other characters as well as repeated by the original, in other later songs (Hamilton: not throwing away my shot; Burr: wait for it; Eliza: Helpless; it would be enough; Angelika: you will never be satisfied/I hope you're satisfied; Philip's Blow Us All Away) and also how whole songs get re-purposed to different purposes later in the show (Eliza's Helpless comes up again in Mariah's seduction scene; the Battle of Yorktown's Stay Alive returns when Eliza and Alexander are hovering over Philip's bed; Ten Duel Commandments for both Philip's and Alexander's duels; and etc).

I appreciated Les Mis a LOT more the second time around, knowing how closely LMM had studied it, than I had the first time through.  (Which is how I know my modest talents are derivative appreciation, not original genius, sigh...)

 

Les Mis is my favorite musical too and the first one I ever saw live as a kid. I was awestruck. I couldn't stop talking about it after I got home. I don't even remember who was there with me I was so engrossed, lol.  I am still loving listening to this one and catching all of the hip hop lyricist/anthem references from my youth. 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Caraway]

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I will say, the only bummer was realizing again that even these amazingly intelligent men could be such idiots when it came to things like duels. UGH! Such a waste of life!

 

I am deep into Yale's Open Course lectures on the American Revolution and this was addressed by the professor.  Apparently since social rank/standing were much more fluid and difficult to recognize in the colonies, dueling developed as a way to assert yourself as having a higher standing.  Still idiotic, but an interesting explanation.  

[Jaybee]

57 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I highly recommend the genius.com annotated Hamilton lyrics.  It goes into a lot of information about both history and musical influences.  For instance, when Burr says, "Grandfather was a fire and brimstone preacher," do you know who his grandfather was?  His grandfather was Jonathan Edwards.  Stuff like that.

I think I will need to look at this. I don't care for the swearing. Overall, I got the feeling that this is so layered that I'm going to have to do some research and watch it more to appreciate more fully the genius of it. I'm pretty culturally illiterate, especially in the hip hop/rap genres, so I know I missed a lot of the richness due to that. It left me a lot more thoughtful than I expected (I had only heard the soundtrack once or twice). So many deep themes running through it. The "forgiveness" phrase caught me off guard, and was one of the most powerful moments for me personally.

[Terabith]

56 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

I think I will need to look at this. I don't care for the swearing. Overall, I got the feeling that this is so layered that I'm going to have to do some research and watch it more to appreciate more fully the genius of it. I'm pretty culturally illiterate, especially in the hip hop/rap genres, so I know I missed a lot of the richness due to that. It left me a lot more thoughtful than I expected (I had only heard the soundtrack once or twice). So many deep themes running through it. The "forgiveness" phrase caught me off guard, and was one of the most powerful moments for me personally.

There are some serious theological themes.  Unimaginable is powerful.  

[Zoo Keeper]

We just finished it -- I put it off 'till the Fourth.  Seemed very fitting. 🙂 

It was AMAZING!!!

So much on so many levels.

[Pam in CT]

3 hours ago, Terabith said:

I highly recommend the genius.com annotated Hamilton lyrics.  It goes into a lot of information about both history and musical influences.  For instance, when Burr says, "Grandfather was a fire and brimstone preacher," do you know who his grandfather was?  His grandfather was Jonathan Edwards.  Stuff like that.

 

I   💗💗  genius.com .  It is one of my most crucial resources in decoding my nearly-adult kids, particularly the youngest.

 

Also, unrelated, BREAKING NEWS FOLKS THERE ARE ALL OF A SUDDEN LIKE 500 EMOTICONS IN THE WTM EMOTICON STOCK!!!!!

😇  👿  💀  💩  💋  💣  👍  🙏  🐢  🍆

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Caraway said:

 

I am deep into Yale's Open Course lectures on the American Revolution and this was addressed by the professor.  Apparently since social rank/standing were much more fluid and difficult to recognize in the colonies, dueling developed as a way to assert yourself as having a higher standing.  Still idiotic, but an interesting explanation.  

Wow. To establish rank, animals have methods of fighting that are, almost always, non lethal, because losing your life over rank is dumb. Too bad humans aren't that smart. 

[Terabith]

21 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Wow. To establish rank, animals have methods of fighting that are, almost always, non lethal, because losing your life over rank is dumb. Too bad humans aren't that smart. 

To be fair, in those days duels were almost never fatal.  And Hamilton was a.....massive jerk to Burr historically.  I really think Burr needs his own musical.  He was every bit as complicated a character as Hamilton, if not quite as brilliant.  But he spent his life fighting for power for the outsider, the economically and politically less powerful, and women's rights.  

[bolt.]

I just watched it with my family. It was wonderful!

Being Canadian, we needed a little background, because we are (were) quite unfamiliar with more than the general scope of the events around the founding of the US. I made use of the method I home-school Shakespeare plays -- synopsis first (without spoilers), then cast of characters, then experience the play. My kids were really into it, chattering on and looking up lyrics online for hours afterwards.

(Canadian understanding of US history is sketchy unless one is a history buff, even though the Canadian and US stories a quite entwined. Basically, we know that there were colonies that became states, formed a union, had a war for independence, and George Washington was the general and the first president. I'm sure American first graders have about the same understanding. I didn't even know where in history Mr. Hamilton fit before this point. Now, the availability of this epic musical might change our understanding to add "Hamilton helped"!)

Edited July 4, 2020 by bolt.

[Terabith]

2 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I just watched it with my family. It was wonderful!

Being Canadian, we needed a little background, because we are (were) quite unfamiliar with more than the general scope of the events around the founding of the US. I made use of the method I home-school Shakespeare plays -- synopsis first (without spoilers), then cast of characters, then experience the play. My kids were really into it, chattering on and looking up lyrics online for hours afterwards.

(Canadian understanding of US history is sketchy unless one is a history buff, even though the Canadian and US stories a quite entwined. Basically, we know that there were colonies that became states, formed a union, had a war for independence, and George Washington was the general and the first president. I'm sure American first graders have about the same understanding. I didn't even know where in history Mr. Hamilton fit before this point. Now, the availability of this epic musical might change our understanding to add "Hamilton helped"!)

To be fair, prior to the musical, most Americans had only barely done more than heard of Alexander Hamilton.  

[Pam in CT]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

To be fair, in those days duels were almost never fatal.  And Hamilton was a.....massive jerk to Burr historically.  I really think Burr needs his own musical.  He was every bit as complicated a character as Hamilton, if not quite as brilliant.  But he spent his life fighting for power for the outsider, the economically and politically less powerful, and women's rights.  

Back in our Hamilton-obsessed period, when I begrudged any activity that prevented me from playing the soundtrack over and over and over... my eldest made up a Cafe Press baseball hat that read

Quote

TEAM BURR

 

[Terabith]

2 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

Back in our Hamilton-obsessed period, when I begrudged any activity that prevented me from playing the soundtrack over and over and over... my eldest made up a Cafe Press baseball hat that read

 

Aaron Burr's egalitarianism towards women really would put many Republicans and Southern Baptists to shame today.  He has a fascinating life story, too.  

[MrsMommy]

7 hours ago, Amira said:

Just finished it.  I’ve read so much about Hamilton but have never seen it or listened to it.  We loved it and will be watching again tomorrow.

Everything here describes me, down to watching it again tomorrow!

[bolt.]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

To be fair, prior to the musical, most Americans had only barely done more than heard of Alexander Hamilton.  

That's the funny part. No matter who the *actual* people (other than George Washington) are in the American founding story -- many Canadians will now think A. Hamilton was *actually* the second-most-important person in American history ever.

Ask them about Lincoln: "A president, I guess?" .... Ask them about Hamilton: "Well, he was the son of a whore and a Scotsman, then... (insert detailed life story here)."

No matter who's famous in American history to Americans, *internationally* Hamilton just became #1, and Washington will be best known for his relationship to Hamilton's life.

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, bolt. said:

That's the funny part. No matter who the *actual* people (other than George Washington) are in the American founding story -- many Canadians will now think A. Hamilton was *actually* the second-most-important person in American history ever.

Ask them about Lincoln: "A president, I guess?" .... Ask them about Hamilton: "Well, he was the son of a whore and a Scotsman, then... (insert detailed life story here)."

No matter who's famous in American history to Americans, *internationally* Hamilton just became #1, and Washington will be best known for his relationship to Hamilton's life.

Could do worse.

[sassenach]

2 hours ago, bolt. said:

I just watched it with my family. It was wonderful!

Being Canadian, we needed a little background, because we are (were) quite unfamiliar with more than the general scope of the events around the founding of the US. I made use of the method I home-school Shakespeare plays -- synopsis first (without spoilers), then cast of characters, then experience the play. My kids were really into it, chattering on and looking up lyrics online for hours afterwards.

(Canadian understanding of US history is sketchy unless one is a history buff, even though the Canadian and US stories a quite entwined. Basically, we know that there were colonies that became states, formed a union, had a war for independence, and George Washington was the general and the first president. I'm sure American first graders have about the same understanding. I didn't even know where in history Mr. Hamilton fit before this point. Now, the availability of this epic musical might change our understanding to add "Hamilton helped"!)

That’s ok. I couldn’t begin to tell you a lick of Canadian history except France and England are in the mix. 

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, Terabith said:

To be fair, in those days duels were almost never fatal.  And Hamilton was a.....massive jerk to Burr historically.  I really think Burr needs his own musical.  He was every bit as complicated a character as Hamilton, if not quite as brilliant.  But he spent his life fighting for power for the outsider, the economically and politically less powerful, and women's rights.  

Oh, I'm not blaming Burr, I'm just saying it was a reminder that men do stupid things for pride, even really smart men. I dont' care if they usually were not fatal, purposely shooting at each other to settle an argument? Dumber than dumb. (I think war is dumb too, actually, for the same reason)

[Terabith]

2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Oh, I'm not blaming Burr, I'm just saying it was a reminder that men do stupid things for pride, even really smart men. I dont' care if they usually were not fatal, purposely shooting at each other to settle an argument? Dumber than dumb. (I think war is dumb too, actually, for the same reason)

Oh yeah.  For sure.  Definitely.

[Lady Florida.]

3 hours ago, Terabith said:

To be fair, prior to the musical, most Americans had only barely done more than heard of Alexander Hamilton.  

True. Even LMM said he knew very little before he read the biography. Hamilton was one of the founders of my hometown in NJ and there's a statue of him by the waterfalls there. I consider myself a Floridian but I was 13 when we moved here. Alexander Hamilton figured prominently in New Jersey studies and Aaron Burr really was the villain in my history. My Paterson, NJ teachers were not kind to him.

2 hours ago, Terabith said:

Aaron Burr's egalitarianism towards women really would put many Republicans and Southern Baptists to shame today.  He has a fascinating life story, too.  

Weirdly though, he wrote letters to his daughter telling her details of his sexual conquests. Like, intimate details. 

[Terabith]

7 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

Weirdly though, he wrote letters to his daughter telling her details of his sexual conquests. Like, intimate details. 

Okay, that's pretty weird.  Didn't she die when she was only like 18?  (I mean, still weird if she's 30, but not AS weird....)

[Lady Florida.]

27 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Okay, that's pretty weird.  Didn't she die when she was only like 18?  (I mean, still weird if she's 30, but not AS weird....)

A boating accident I think. 

Okay, I just looked it up and she was 29. Still weird. And apparently the boat was lost at sea.

[Amira]

8 hours ago, bolt. said:

I just watched it with my family. It was wonderful!

Being Canadian, we needed a little background, because we are (were) quite unfamiliar with more than the general scope of the events around the founding of the US. I made use of the method I home-school Shakespeare plays -- synopsis first (without spoilers), then cast of characters, then experience the play. My kids were really into it, chattering on and looking up lyrics online for hours afterwards.

(Canadian understanding of US history is sketchy unless one is a history buff, even though the Canadian and US stories a quite entwined. Basically, we know that there were colonies that became states, formed a union, had a war for independence, and George Washington was the general and the first president. I'm sure American first graders have about the same understanding. I didn't even know where in history Mr. Hamilton fit before this point. Now, the availability of this epic musical might change our understanding to add "Hamilton helped"!)

This is pretty much what my American 12yo ds who has been raised almost entirely outside the US knows. He’s learning a lot of history watching Hamilton. I’m filling in lots of context, because there’s Hamilton and there’s Hamilton, and I think both are essential to understanding US history.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Amira

[Lanny]

DD is SIP at Carolina. Last night she sent me a text message on WhatsApp:  "We're watching Hamilton in celebration of Fourth of July"

ETA: On the 4th of July, about 730 P.M., neighbors set off Fireworks for 2 or 3 minutes. I was astonished, but it was nice...  Not a holiday here in Colombia...

 

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Lanny
Add ETA

[KungFuPanda]

16 hours ago, sassenach said:

That’s ok. I couldn’t begin to tell you a lick of Canadian history except France and England are in the mix. 

I watched Corner Gas, Kim’s Convenience, and Letterkenney so I know everything about Canada. 🤣

We also saved Hamilton for the 4th (last night). It was great. I made DS turn off subtitles because they were distracting.  We had no trouble deciphering the lyrics. They were fast but clear.  It went off at 11 and I said “Let’s watch it again right now!” Everybody just left me. 😂 I didn’t actually watch it again, but I will. Thomas Jefferson was hysterical. I loved him. 

[El...]

This. Was. Amazing. 

Thanks for pushing me over the edge! Now I'm watching it again with DH. So much to discuss.

I saw a Vox article which described it as fanfic (not a criticism). I really like that concept. It's not a documentary, and can't be enjoyed that way. 

It warms my heart to observe how many people are enjoying it. It means I'm not alone.  It's so easy to decide that most Americans must be uneducated or uninterested, based on Facebook shenanigans. But no, we are out here, watching, reading, talking, and singing along. Rise up!!

[katilac]

On 7/4/2020 at 8:07 AM, MEmama said:

Nope, not the only one. I don’t know anything about and zero interest. We are not a musicals family. 
I did see a commercial for it though. To say I don’t get the appeal is a massive understatement. 

Well, if you don't like musicals and don't know anything about it, it's going to be hard to get the appeal, lol.

22 hours ago, Terabith said:

To be fair, prior to the musical, most Americans had only barely done more than heard of Alexander Hamilton.  

I went to a public school in a poor district back in the stone ages, and we were certainly taught quite a bit about Hamilton.  Of course, I'm in a section of the deep south that gave up dueling quite reluctantly, so that may have played into it, lol  

[LucyStoner]

We watched the first half Friday and the second half today.  We all enjoyed it and my boys, especially the older one who was totally obsessed with the soundtrack. 

ETA:  It got split into two parts because I was just too tired to stay awake on Friday night and the boys didn't want me to miss it so they turned it off and decided to wait to finish it.  Saturday, our 4th of July plans (drive in/social distancing fireworks show at the state fairgrounds) took us out of the house from the time my husband got off work until midnight.  So we finished it today, back tracking to about when I nodded off on Friday.

I'm kinda ambivalent about musicals in general. I've enjoyed some but not others and I wouldn't call myself a huge fan of the genre in general.  That said, both the political topic and the hip hop music combine to make it more of less exactly my kind of bullshit.  I love that Lin Manuel Miranda's take on that biography was that it needed to be a hip hop musical.  He wrote the musical that became his first Broadway production when he was like 19 so yeah, he's a total genius.  

Edited July 6, 2020 by LucyStoner

[katilac]

Watched it, loved it, laughed, cried, will watch again. 

[alisoncooks]

My girls and I watched Hamilton yesterday and really enjoyed it. I'll admit to being bothered by the profanity -- it was *just beyond* my comfort level. 

Everything else was just amazing. Flawless use of the single set, the movements, the way prior songs looped back around into/over the new songs. Wonderful. 

I also enjoyed the musical references/influences. The most obvious (for me) was Grandmaster Flash's The Message -- which I'll admit to only knowing because I was a teen in the 90s and Puff Daddy, lol. 😉 

 

[klmama]

The History Channel has a documentary on Hamilton (the man, not the musical) available on YouTube.  

[ktgrok]

I've decided LMM is our generations Shakspeare. If you watch interviews where he talks about how he did the rhyming, his reasons for certain parts of the music, etc...it's genius. Add in that he used the "music of the people" and of his day, and yeah, Shakespeare. 

 

[alisoncooks]

Anyone else hear whispers of Moana in some of the songs/melodies? It was very clear to me that he'd had a hand in both. 

[PerfectFifth]

We watched it on the 3rd...couldn't wait another day. The kids and I saw the musical when it came to town a couple of years ago, but not with that cast!!! Hubby didn't want to spend the money (he hates musicals) so he didn't see the live show. My eldest and I are going to watch it again today because we both like to sing a long!!!!!! It annoys everyone else. 🥰

[BakersDozen]

Quote

The language was really too much for me, though.  If I decide to let my teens watch it, I will be muting often.

I really wish that they would make a clean version of this that would be appropriate for a wider audience.

My high school co-op students told me not to watch it because they know how I feel about language. I really want to see it but just cannot handle the language aspect. We love musicals here - my kids have the classics memorized and act out musicals for fun. But not Hamilton - not even for my teens. Kind of disappointing...just think there are ways to have creative genius without the obscenities.

And I hate rap/hip hop. Hate, hate, hate it. Blame it on 2 very horrible years post high school which I would like to erase from my memory entirely. Just can't hear it without feeling slightly ill.

I really am bummed and would like to be on the Hamilton Viewer Train.

[Noreen Claire]

7 hours ago, alisoncooks said:

Anyone else hear whispers of Moana in some of the songs/melodies? It was very clear to me that he'd had a hand in both. 

YES! When he says, 'I'm on my way" I was like, WHOA, Moana!

[katilac]

1 hour ago, BakersDozen said:

 And I hate rap/hip hop. Hate, hate, hate it. Blame it on 2 very horrible years post high school which I would like to erase from my memory entirely. Just can't hear it without feeling slightly ill.

It sounds like any amount would be too much for you, lol, but for those who just think they can't handle almost 3 hours of it: there is a good amount of variety in the songs, imo, and the hip hop and rap is mostly not hard driving or difficult to understand. And I definitely don't listen to much rap, lol. Most of it I would compare to songs like Royals; if you can get But every song's like gold teeth, Grey Goose, trippin' in the bathroom, Bloodstains, ball gowns, trashin' the hotel room then Hamilton should be no problem. 

tl;dr: it was nothing like the rap I heard in the high school hallways, lol 

[alisoncooks]

For those that enjoyed Hamilton, you may like this (pro-mask) parody from the Holderness family. This made DD and I chuckle, especially the end.

 

 

[KungFuPanda]

3 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

My high school co-op students told me not to watch it because they know how I feel about language. I really want to see it but just cannot handle the language aspect. We love musicals here - my kids have the classics memorized and act out musicals for fun. But not Hamilton - not even for my teens. Kind of disappointing...just think there are ways to have creative genius without the obscenities.

And I hate rap/hip hop. Hate, hate, hate it. Blame it on 2 very horrible years post high school which I would like to erase from my memory entirely. Just can't hear it without feeling slightly ill.

I really am bummed and would like to be on the Hamilton Viewer Train.

Maybe listen to the opening number without your kids and judge from there.  You'll probably know after that first number if you'll enjoy it or not.  Odds are you've heard most of the first song anyway.

[KungFuPanda]

2 minutes ago, WendyAndMilo said:

So 7 days later, I've watched it beginning to end about 11 times, downloaded and memorized the soundtrack....  Someone tell me I'm not the only one...

Also, it is seriously the BEST house cleaning music - I've been putting up with the pain of earpods because it's so great.

This is the same feeling as when I get hooked on a TV show during the very last season and can binge 5,723 hours all at once.

 

 

I cannot do earbuds for more than twenty minutes before they hurt my ears and give me a headache.  I CAN do the kind that hang over your ears like glasses and sort of dangle down like musical earrings.  They still secure in your ears a little bit, but I don't have any pain from them.  

[katilac]

4 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

Maybe listen to the opening number without your kids and judge from there.  You'll probably know after that first number if you'll enjoy it or not.  Odds are you've heard most of the first song anyway.

Funny, I find the opening soooo different from most of the rest! I could not have taken 2 hours and 40 minutes of that opening number. 

[katilac]

Also, we moved on to Newsies tonight and were super disappointed. Three of us watched and none of us liked any of the songs. Which, y'know, musical, so kind of important. 

[KungFuPanda]

6 hours ago, katilac said:

Funny, I find the opening soooo different from most of the rest! I could not have taken 2 hours and 40 minutes of that opening number. 

Could you have left the STORY after the first number? I’m probably not the best one to try and relate to this conundrum because I really liked the music all the way through, but I was fully invested in the middle of the first song. DH, however, said: “It’s not my type of music at all but it was so good.”

[katilac]

3 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

Could you have left the STORY after the first number? I’m probably not the best one to try and relate to this conundrum because I really liked the music all the way through, but I was fully invested in the middle of the first song. DH, however, said: “It’s not my type of music at all but it was so good.”

I would not have wanted to leave the story, but nearly 3 hours in that style would have been too much for me. And I actually quite like the first number, but it's the kind of thing I like in limited doses, lol. I was glad there was variety in the music. 

[Sneezyone]

12 hours ago, katilac said:

Funny, I find the opening soooo different from most of the rest! I could not have taken 2 hours and 40 minutes of that opening number. 

 

The opening number is a total tease. It's there mostly to introduce the characters and storyline and is sloooowwwww so you can hear the words. It's much more fun as it speeds up.

[KungFuPanda]

20 hours ago, katilac said:

I would not have wanted to leave the story, but nearly 3 hours in that style would have been too much for me. And I actually quite like the first number, but it's the kind of thing I like in limited doses, lol. I was glad there was variety in the music. 

I meant that it would beckon you in and leave you wanting the next song. It hadn’t occurred to me that anyone would think every song in a musical COULD sound THAT much alike and still get rave reviews. 
 

I want to watch it again but I’m not emotionally recovered enough to go through the Unimaginable again. 😭

[El...]

21 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I meant that it would beckon you in and leave you wanting the next song. It hadn’t occurred to me that anyone would think every song in a musical COULD sound THAT much alike and still get rave reviews. 
 

I want to watch it again but I’m not emotionally recovered enough to go through the Unimaginable again. 😭

I've seen it twice now, because I made dh watch it with me, and I cried both times! Heartbreaking. So very well done. 

Dh liked it too, and musicals are not usually his thing. 

[PeppermintPattie]

On 7/4/2020 at 11:33 AM, Pam in CT said:

re hints of Les Mis:

LMM has said in several interviews that Les Mis is the show that most influenced him as a writer, which so intrigued my kids during our 2=year obsession with Hamilton that upon their beseeching we all trooped out to Mis (which my husband and I had seen, like, 40 years ago or something) to figure out why.  And you can see it.  Not just the small-character development within epic scale overall story/energy/timing/staging/use of the crowd as a sort of Greek chorus that so propels the narrative that you literally don't need any spoken dialogue, just the movement from song-to-song furthers the story along, though all of that... but also the genius use of musical motifs -- each character gets an associated line laid out once in a whole song and thereafter referenced, by other characters as well as repeated by the original, in other later songs (Hamilton: not throwing away my shot; Burr: wait for it; Eliza: Helpless; it would be enough; Angelika: you will never be satisfied/I hope you're satisfied; Philip's Blow Us All Away) and also how whole songs get re-purposed to different purposes later in the show (Eliza's Helpless comes up again in Mariah's seduction scene; the Battle of Yorktown's Stay Alive returns when Eliza and Alexander are hovering over Philip's bed; Ten Duel Commandments for both Philip's and Alexander's duels; and etc).

I appreciated Les Mis a LOT more the second time around, knowing how closely LMM had studied it, than I had the first time through.  (Which is how I know my modest talents are derivative appreciation, not original genius, sigh...)

 

This is very insightful - I've seen it 6 times now, but I never caught on the re-use of the motifs. Can't wait to watch it again and listen for those!

This proves that you're closer to original genius than I am!

[PeppermintPattie]

On 7/4/2020 at 4:54 PM, Terabith said:

To be fair, in those days duels were almost never fatal.  And Hamilton was a.....massive jerk to Burr historically.  I really think Burr needs his own musical.  He was every bit as complicated a character as Hamilton, if not quite as brilliant.  But he spent his life fighting for power for the outsider, the economically and politically less powerful, and women's rights.  

I won lottery tickets to see it live multiple times, and it wasn't until my third performance that I realized that the musical was as much or even more about Burr as it was Hamilton. Burr had such a rich religious heritage, especially when you realize who his grandparents were, yet he seemed to flounder his entire life. In the live performances we saw, Burr was definitely the stronger performer, so maybe that's why it seemed like Hamilton snagged Burr's musical, along with everything else.